The wife and I took a drive to the summit of Mt. San Bruno yesterday. It was
actually quite
easy, compared to the trip to the summit of Mt. Diablo we made a few weeks ago
(KTNC
transmits from up there, and KTFK from a nearby peak to the North until 2/17,
though
the Mt. Diablo visitor center is much more interesting).

It reminds me a lot of Mt. Soledad, except that there is a lot more human
habitation
nearby on that mountain. Mt. San Bruno is a county park except for the patch of
ground at
the summit.

Alas, though the buildings are labeled with FCC site IDs, those IDs ore not
correlated (on
the sign) to the actual transmitters. I tried to google the numbers from up
there, but the
cell coverage was sub-par. It might have something to do with the hundreds of
thousands
of watts of UHF coursing through the air. :)

But from the look of the antennas and a glance at the FoolTV maps, my guess is
that the
building at the end of the summit road is probably KNTV. Somewhat back from that
is
probably either KKPX or KTSF. Off to the East is a little tiny cinderblock
building that I'm
going to guess is either KMMC or KFTL.

Of course, there's probably lots of non-TV stuff up there too, so it's probable
that I am
entirely wrong.

From the summit you could, of course, clearly see Sutro Tower to the North. It
appeared
that the summit was very close in elevation to the set of cross-arms at the top
of the
tower proper (not including the actual antennae that rise up from those
crossarms).

Looking ENE from the summit, there was a mountain poking up out of the haze that
just
HAD to be Mt. Diablo - nothing else really makes sense.

Having visited, it's quite surprising to me that Mt. San Bruno was the site of
choice for
broadcasters until the construction of Sutro Tower. I'd have guessed that it
would have
been more desirable to locate somewhere along Skyline Blvd on the ridge that
runs up the
peninsula, as it looked to me like those ridges were higher. I guess Mt. San
Bruno would
have shaded significant populations from those sites, just as that ridge shades
Half Moon
Bay. It's also possible that the increased altitude on that ridge would have
made it too
difficult to find a clear frequency, as there would be more exposure to the
Central Valley.

Mt. San Bruno isn't hard to visit. If you use Google Maps, it will route you all
the way
through to the summit. The one wrinkle is that Google will attempt to route you
through a
closed gate. The actual way in is through the San Bruno county park enterance
directly
across the street from that locked gate. That is, turn the opposite direction
from how
Google says. You'll go past an unstaffed ranger shack where you're supposed to
pay the $5
vehicle entry fee (waived for those with a disabled placard). Follow the sign to
the summit
road and you'll go under the road you just left and around and join up with a
spur leading
from that locked gate. That road goes directly to the summit. Unlike Mt. Diablo,
the road
is steep and doesn't take half an hour to go up.

Visiting Sutro Tower would be another field trip, but since the tower just sort
of rises out
of the middle of a neighborhood, it's not quite as interesting like the more
isolated sites
are.

The other major site for this market is Mt. Alison (KDTV & KSTS) / Monument Peak
(KICU /
KTEH). Unfortunately, so far as I can tell, the roads that go up to those sites
are not open
to the public. You can, however, easily see the towers as you drive up towards
Fremont on
I-880.

How about a little history?  To follow up on Nick's and Richard's
comments, the building and tower used by KNTV, analog and digital, at
the end of Radio Road on Mt. San Bruno has been previously used by
two other TV stations.  It was originally the transmitter site for
KDTV on channel 60.  KCSM was on channel 14 transmitting from the
College of San Mateo Campus.  For some reason unknown to me, the two
stations swapped channels in 1979.  KDTV moved to their present site
on Mt. Alison on channel 14 and KCSM moved from the college campus to
channel 60 on Mt. San Bruno.   I can't remember if the channel change
and the transmitter move happened at the same time or not.  (Don
Hackler might be able to fill us in on that.)

The two buildings to the north of KNTV house KTSF analog and digital
and KKPX digital only. (KKPX channel 65 analog transmits from Loma
Prieta Mountain where KNTV used to transmit from.)  From what I've
been able to determine, KTSF is on the tower on the east side of the
road, KKPX is on the tower above the building.  I'm not certain on
that though.  KTSF used to have their control room and studio in that
building.

There used to be another TV station up there, too.  Remember Gene
Scott's station on channel 38?  That used to transmit from the same
location.  When he was forced to close the station and the channel
became KCNS, the new channel 38 transmitter was installed at Sutro
Tower.

I think KFTL channel 28 and KMMC channel 40 are also in the same
building complex.  By the way, KFTL has been issued a construction
permit for a low power digital transmitter on channel 24, the channel
that will be vacated by KGO-DT in February.

The buildings to the west are all of the FM stations, commercial
transmitters, repeaters and so on that Richard mentioned.  Several FM
stations transmit from atop Mt. San Bruno: KQED 88.5, KMVQ 99.7, KIOI
101.3, KSAN 107.7 and maybe another one or two.  (KOIT 96.5, KSOL
98.9, KKSF 103.7 and KFOG 104.5 transmit from Sutro Tower.)

Speaking of Sutro Tower, you can get up close and personal to it.
There's a trail where you can hike right around the base of the tower
just outside of the high chain link fence that surrounds the tower
and transmitter building, and you can look straight up the tower.
You'll find lots of people walking their dogs there.  The parking lot
for Sutro is inside the fence, so if you drive up there, find parking
on Palo Alto Avenue.  To get there take Mountain Spring Avenue off of
Twin Peaks Boulevard then Glenbrooke Avenue to Palo Alto Avenue.
It's a beautiful area to take a hike in and the views are great if
it's not foggy.

It's too bad that the transmitter building isn't open to the public,
because lots of the beautiful stained glass windows from the old
Sutro Mansion that used to be at the site, including one of a giant
spider, hang in the lobby.

Larry
SF

I've spent many ugly nights on Mt. San Bruno.  (Some nice ones, too...)
My theory is that the only reason the Bay Area has such nice weather
is that Mt. San Bruno, Loma Prieta, Mt. Diablo, and a few of the other
mountain (Monument, Allison, Fremont, Tam) act as lightning rods to
absorb all the bad weather for the entire area.  Snow, ice, wind,
rain, fog...
The other transmitter engineers know what  I'm talking about.
The wind and rain on San Bruno mountain is often extreme and is
usually quite salty.  Metal corrosion is a major problem there.

The mountain tops can be nice places to get above
the smog layer, though...

The story on the KDTV and KCSM swap, as far as I know, is that KDTV
gave KCSM the channel 60 transmitter on San Bruno and some critical
studio gear required to start broadcasting in color in exchange for the
channel swap.


On Sep 1, 2008, at 12:15 PM, Larry Kenney wrote:

> How about a little history?  To follow up on Nick's and Richard's
> comments, the building and tower used by KNTV, analog and digital, at
> the end of Radio Road on Mt. San Bruno has been previously used by
> two other TV stations.  It was originally the transmitter site for
> KDTV on channel 60.  KCSM was on channel 14 transmitting from the
> College of San Mateo Campus.  For some reason unknown to me, the two
> stations swapped channels in 1979.  KDTV moved to their present site
> on Mt. Alison on channel 14 and KCSM moved from the college campus to
> channel 60 on Mt. San Bruno.   I can't remember if the channel change
> and the transmitter move happened at the same time or not.  (Don
> Hackler might be able to fill us in on that.)
>

--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Don Hackler <donh@...> wrote:
>
> The story on the KDTV and KCSM swap, as far as I know, is that KDTV
> gave KCSM the channel 60 transmitter on San Bruno and some critical
> studio gear required to start broadcasting in color in exchange for the
> channel swap.
>

That would make some sense. Channel 14's frequency is 60% or so of channel 60s.
The
right to change to reduce frequency by such a percentage would be a very
valuable thing
in general - almost as good as going from channel 14 to channel 13 (UHF -> VHF).
Lower
frequencies propagate much better and amplifiers in general are more efficient.
In
addition, I'm sure the bean counters could have finessed some or all of the cost
as a
donation to a public broadcaster, which would mean a substantial tax write-off.

I found the timing of KCSM's sudden rate increase just before the analog
shutdown and
KNTV's move to their old facility immediately after they abandoned it.....
interesting. My
guess is that KNTV's management made an offer to the landlord, the landlord
asked KCSM
to match it, and KCSM simply could not. Either KCSM had already planned PT
digital
operation from Sutro Tower or they made a deal to move there (probably the
former), so
the path of least resistance was to shut down analog service early, with the
workaround LP
operation from the college to satisfy the FCC.

I would guess that KNTV isn't using the *actual* KCSM transmitter, are they?
Surely they'd
have set up their own, since the frequency was so different. Certainly at least
they'd want
to use a different antenna - never mind having to supply a second one for the
digital
transmitter (which they'd also have to supply since KCSM didn't have one up
there).

So what did KCSM *do* with their gear? Did they reuse it for the LP operation at
the
college? eBay? What? And what is going to become of all of the analog
transmitter gear PT?
I can't imagine there's going to be much market for it. Sure, some of it will be
amplifiers
that could be reused for digital (but will still be redundant since most
broadcasters will
have operated 2 transmitters for a few years now), but the NTSC exciters
certainly aren't
going to be in demand. Mexico's ATSC transition plans stretch out to 2022...
Maybe a lot
of their stations will get some fancy upgrades...?

Hi folks,

I'm seeing either no signal or very glitchy images on the high-def
channels through Comcast in Santa Clara today.  Anybody else?  What's up?

--George

On Sep 1, 2008, at 4:52 PM, Nick Sayer wrote:

> --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Don Hackler <donh@...> wrote:
>>
>> The story on the KDTV and KCSM swap, as far as I know, is that KDTV
>> gave KCSM the channel 60 transmitter on San Bruno and some critical
>> studio gear required to start broadcasting in color in exchange for
>> the
>> channel swap.
>>
>
> That would make some sense. Channel 14's frequency is 60% or so of
> channel 60s. The
> right to change to reduce frequency by such a percentage would be a
> very valuable thing
> in general - almost as good as going from channel 14 to channel 13
> (UHF -> VHF). Lower
> frequencies propagate much better and amplifiers in general are more
> efficient. In
> addition, I'm sure the bean counters could have finessed some or all
> of the cost as a
> donation to a public broadcaster, which would mean a substantial tax
> write-off.


At the time, UHF receivers were better at the lower end of the band,
as well.
KCSM had no significant budgets for equipment at that time, so both
stations were better off.


> I found the timing of KCSM's sudden rate increase just before the
> analog shutdown and
> KNTV's move to their old facility immediately after they abandoned
> it..... interesting. My
> guess is that KNTV's management made an offer to the landlord, the
> landlord asked KCSM
> to match it, and KCSM simply could not. Either KCSM had already
> planned PT digital
> operation from Sutro Tower or they made a deal to move there
> (probably the former), so
> the path of least resistance was to shut down analog service early,
> with the workaround LP
> operation from the college to satisfy the FCC.
>

KCSM was able to get the channel 43 allocation to replace the original
channel 59 digital
allocation.  This kept KCSM from having to change RF channels twice
during the digital
transition.  The only place that a channel 43 can go in the Bay Area
is Sutro, as it needs
to be co-located with channel 44.  Sutro Tower was able to accommodate
KCSM with minimal
modifications to the existing DTV combiner and antenna system, and was
able to negotiate
a reasonable lease, as well.  Once these arrangements were made, the
plan to install the
digital transmitter at Sutro was locked in.  This happened a couple of
years before the lease
at San Bruno was due to expire.

The lease for the KCSM San Bruno site expired about three years before
the analog shutdown.
American Tower offered to renew the lease to KCSM for about 3 times
the existing rate and
they required a minimum lease term (ten years, I think) that would
extend several years past
the analog shutdown.
This caused two significant problems for KCSM:
One, the monthly rate would have been an impossible burden for KCSM to
deal with long
term, and two, the state education code does not allow a community
college to enter a
property lease for more than a few years (three or five, I forget
which...)

Starting a year before the lease expiration, KCSM tried to negotiate a
reasonable short term
lease with American Tower to last until the analog shutdown.  No
progress was made for
several months and at one point, American Tower quit returning our
phone calls and email.

We found out shortly afterwards that KNTV had filed with the FCC to
move to the tower that
KCSM was on.  A couple of informal inquiries determined that KNTV had
leased the site for
their exclusive use.

At this point, the early shutdown of the analog transmitter appeared
to be the only reasonable
option for KCSM...  and that's another long story.


> I would guess that KNTV isn't using the *actual* KCSM transmitter,
> are they? Surely they'd
> have set up their own, since the frequency was so different.
> Certainly at least they'd want
> to use a different antenna - never mind having to supply a second
> one for the digital
> transmitter (which they'd also have to supply since KCSM didn't have
> one up there).
>

As part of the lease termination, KCSM was require to empty out the
transmitter site.
The existing antennas on the tower (14 and 60) were not appropriate
for KNTV, and
even feedline was too weathered to be re-used.

A forty yard dumpster full of copper pipe (our feedline and antenna)
was sold as scrap.
The salvage crew made some good money on that.

> So what did KCSM *do* with their gear? Did they reuse it for the LP
> operation at the
> college? eBay? What? And what is going to become of all of the
> analog transmitter gear PT?
> I can't imagine there's going to be much market for it. Sure, some
> of it will be amplifiers
> that could be reused for digital (but will still be redundant since
> most broadcasters will
> have operated 2 transmitters for a few years now), but the NTSC
> exciters certainly aren't
> going to be in demand. Mexico's ATSC transition plans stretch out to
> 2022... Maybe a lot
> of their stations will get some fancy upgrades..

KCSM found an transmitter equipment broker who offered to pay for the
transmitter
and sent an engineer to dismantle the transmitter and haul it away.
Two flatbed trailers
were required to haul the transmitter cabinets, power supplies,
cooling systems, combiner
systems, and other related gear.  I think the transmitter is now on
the air in Ohio somewhere.
We are glad the transmitter found a good home.

These days, it would have all just ended up in a dumpster.
There will certainly be a glut of used analog transmitters on the
market next year.

The building on San Bruno had been in a poor state of repair for the
last years KCSM
was occupying it, so I worked with KNTV to make sure they knew where
the problems like roof
and wall leaks, doors with serious rust problems, electrical gear
problems, broken plumbing,
etc. were with the building so they could get them fixed before moving
in.
(In a place where the rain blows sideways and upwards wall leaks are
almost as bad as
roof leaks...)

It's not HD, and it's not digital, but for those of you, like me, interested in
anything you can
watch on your TV from over the air, there is an Amateur Television repeater in
the East
foothills of San Jose operating on a video carrier frequency of 421.25 MHz. What
this
means is that if you have a cable-ready analog TV, you can connect up an antenna
(preferably one optimized for the amateur 73 cm band and VERTICALLY polarized -
most
TV antennas are horizontally polarized) to your TV and tune it to (standard, not
IRC or
HRC) cable channel 57 and you'll pick it up. Its call sign is K6BEN. I currently
use a 6
element beam pointed in the right direction and pick it up really well from
Santa Clara.
But even my ordinary TV antenna setup (which is optimized for the wrong band,
pointed
the wrong way, with the wrong polarization, and which has an amp that is
optimized for
the wrong band), I still pick it up, sort of.

For the first 10 minutes of each hour, it transmits a set of ID slides. Most of
the rest of the
time, it's idle, but every Wednesday evening at 8 there is a "Net" where anyone
who has
the proper transmit gear will check in. Occasionally there are other special
activities. Some
of the video is on YouTube - search for K6BEN.

I, myself, have the correct transmitter and transmit antenna, but am waiting on
the final
amplifier (which, apparently, is still waiting for the silicon to be mined that
will make the
transistor). Transmitting into the repeater is done with FM TV at 1255 MHz, with
audio
sent with narrowband FM at 145.51 MHz. From my distance of about 8 miles, I'll
need, oh,
probably 100-200 watts of ERP, and the amp I'm getting along with my 18 element
beam
will generate about a kilowatt of ERP. Doing this requires obtaining a
Technician class or
better Amateur Radio license from the FCC (however, Technician is the
entry-level license
for amateur radio in the US. All you have to do is get 70% right on a 35
question multiple
choice exam).

Once I verify that the transmitter is operating correctly, I plan on seeing if I
can hitch a
ride with a pilot friend of mine and transmit video into the repeater from up in
the air!

Signal in Rohnert Park is very clean.  It has to be localized.

--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "yefchak" <george@...> wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm seeing either no signal or very glitchy images on the high-def
> channels through Comcast in Santa Clara today.  Anybody else?
What's up?
>
> --George
>

No problems in SW Sunnyvale area today. Watched US Open tennis all
day on KPIX-HD Comcast.

Jim

--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "bobby6048" <bobcapl@...>
wrote:
>
> Signal in Rohnert Park is very clean.  It has to be localized.
>
> --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "yefchak" <george@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I'm seeing either no signal or very glitchy images on the high-
def
> > channels through Comcast in Santa Clara today.  Anybody else?
> What's up?
> >
> > --George
> >
>

Hi,

At 12:55 AM 9/4/2008 I noted that KMTP-DT 32.1 Has The "ARTS" programming.

What is interesting is that KMTP Analog 32 is not coming in. ( I record it
at 11:30 AM Each day, was OK Wed.)

The SD program listings shows "00:00 - Russia Today (32 KMTP and KMTP-DT
32.1), ends 06:00 News".

  Perhaps I can soon not use any analog signals at all, KMTP is the last one.

SHF

At10:26 am this morning both analog and digital KMTP signals are
showing the Classic Arts Showcase. It's about time they got that
program feed patched in! (I do like classical music)


--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen H. Fischer"
<SFischer1@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> At 12:55 AM 9/4/2008 I noted that KMTP-DT 32.1 Has The "ARTS"
programming.
>
> What is interesting is that KMTP Analog 32 is not coming in. ( I
record it
> at 11:30 AM Each day, was OK Wed.)
>
> The SD program listings shows "00:00 - Russia Today (32 KMTP and
KMTP-DT
> 32.1), ends 06:00 News".
>
>  Perhaps I can soon not use any analog signals at all, KMTP is the
last one.
>
> SHF
>

Having gotten back to the set for another look, I am disappointed in
the really poor quality/resolution of what is currently being
transmitted. It looks like a VHS home video. (the previous CD or
whatever source was too dark to judge that)

Still,,, better than the static slide they had all the time.

--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "epicurusradium" <gene9@...> wrote:
>
> At10:26 am this morning both analog and digital KMTP signals are
> showing the Classic Arts Showcase. It's about time they got that
> program feed patched in! (I do like classical music)
>
>
> --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen H. Fischer"
> <SFischer1@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > At 12:55 AM 9/4/2008 I noted that KMTP-DT 32.1 Has The "ARTS"
> programming.
> >
> > What is interesting is that KMTP Analog 32 is not coming in. ( I
> record it
> > at 11:30 AM Each day, was OK Wed.)
> >
> > The SD program listings shows "00:00 - Russia Today (32 KMTP and
> KMTP-DT
> > 32.1), ends 06:00 News".
> >
> >  Perhaps I can soon not use any analog signals at all, KMTP is the
> last one.
> >
> > SHF
> >
>

Richard, can you let us in on what is going to be on the 11.3 channel?
My second discovery this morning was that NBC 11 now has started
another subchannel apparantly called Uni Spot (uni spt is all that is
showing on the screen so far)

--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Swank, Richard (NBC Universal,
KNTV)" <Richard.Swank@...> wrote:
>
> KNTV did remodel the entire building.  We stripped it to nothing but
> bare walls.  An entirely new electrical system was installed.  The walls
> were repaired, new doors, roof, floor, emergency power generation
> system, grounding system, security system and HVAC were then added to
> the building prior to our two new transmitter systems and antenna
> systems being installed on the site.  Lots of $$ were spent but it is
> now a very nice facility that we intend to spend a long time occupying.
>
> Richard Swank
> Rf Systems Engineer
> KNTV, KNTV-DT
> San Jose - Oakland - San Francisco
> ________________________________
>
> From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Hackler
> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 6:14 PM
> To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: A Visit to Mt. San Bruno
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 1, 2008, at 4:52 PM, Nick Sayer wrote:
>
> > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:HDTV-in-SFbay%40yahoogroups.com> , Don Hackler <donh@> wrote:
> >>
> >> The story on the KDTV and KCSM swap, as far as I know, is that KDTV
> >> gave KCSM the channel 60 transmitter on San Bruno and some critical
> >> studio gear required to start broadcasting in color in exchange for
> >> the
> >> channel swap.
> >>
> >
> > That would make some sense. Channel 14's frequency is 60% or so of
> > channel 60s. The
> > right to change to reduce frequency by such a percentage would be a
> > very valuable thing
> > in general - almost as good as going from channel 14 to channel 13
> > (UHF -> VHF). Lower
> > frequencies propagate much better and amplifiers in general are more
> > efficient. In
> > addition, I'm sure the bean counters could have finessed some or all
> > of the cost as a
> > donation to a public broadcaster, which would mean a substantial tax
> > write-off.
>
> At the time, UHF receivers were better at the lower end of the band,
> as well.
> KCSM had no significant budgets for equipment at that time, so both
> stations were better off.
>
> > I found the timing of KCSM's sudden rate increase just before the
> > analog shutdown and
> > KNTV's move to their old facility immediately after they abandoned
> > it..... interesting. My
> > guess is that KNTV's management made an offer to the landlord, the
> > landlord asked KCSM
> > to match it, and KCSM simply could not. Either KCSM had already
> > planned PT digital
> > operation from Sutro Tower or they made a deal to move there
> > (probably the former), so
> > the path of least resistance was to shut down analog service early,
> > with the workaround LP
> > operation from the college to satisfy the FCC.
> >
>
> KCSM was able to get the channel 43 allocation to replace the original
> channel 59 digital
> allocation. This kept KCSM from having to change RF channels twice
> during the digital
> transition. The only place that a channel 43 can go in the Bay Area
> is Sutro, as it needs
> to be co-located with channel 44. Sutro Tower was able to accommodate
> KCSM with minimal
> modifications to the existing DTV combiner and antenna system, and was
> able to negotiate
> a reasonable lease, as well. Once these arrangements were made, the
> plan to install the
> digital transmitter at Sutro was locked in. This happened a couple of
> years before the lease
> at San Bruno was due to expire.
>
> The lease for the KCSM San Bruno site expired about three years before
> the analog shutdown.
> American Tower offered to renew the lease to KCSM for about 3 times
> the existing rate and
> they required a minimum lease term (ten years, I think) that would
> extend several years past
> the analog shutdown.
> This caused two significant problems for KCSM:
> One, the monthly rate would have been an impossible burden for KCSM to
> deal with long
> term, and two, the state education code does not allow a community
> college to enter a
> property lease for more than a few years (three or five, I forget
> which...)
>
> Starting a year before the lease expiration, KCSM tried to negotiate a
> reasonable short term
> lease with American Tower to last until the analog shutdown. No
> progress was made for
> several months and at one point, American Tower quit returning our
> phone calls and email.
>
> We found out shortly afterwards that KNTV had filed with the FCC to
> move to the tower that
> KCSM was on. A couple of informal inquiries determined that KNTV had
> leased the site for
> their exclusive use.
>
> At this point, the early shutdown of the analog transmitter appeared
> to be the only reasonable
> option for KCSM... and that's another long story.
>
> > I would guess that KNTV isn't using the *actual* KCSM transmitter,
> > are they? Surely they'd
> > have set up their own, since the frequency was so different.
> > Certainly at least they'd want
> > to use a different antenna - never mind having to supply a second
> > one for the digital
> > transmitter (which they'd also have to supply since KCSM didn't have
> > one up there).
> >
>
> As part of the lease termination, KCSM was require to empty out the
> transmitter site.
> The existing antennas on the tower (14 and 60) were not appropriate
> for KNTV, and
> even feedline was too weathered to be re-used.
>
> A forty yard dumpster full of copper pipe (our feedline and antenna)
> was sold as scrap.
> The salvage crew made some good money on that.
>
> > So what did KCSM *do* with their gear? Did they reuse it for the LP
> > operation at the
> > college? eBay? What? And what is going to become of all of the
> > analog transmitter gear PT?
> > I can't imagine there's going to be much market for it. Sure, some
> > of it will be amplifiers
> > that could be reused for digital (but will still be redundant since
> > most broadcasters will
> > have operated 2 transmitters for a few years now), but the NTSC
> > exciters certainly aren't
> > going to be in demand. Mexico's ATSC transition plans stretch out to
> > 2022... Maybe a lot
> > of their stations will get some fancy upgrades..
>
> KCSM found an transmitter equipment broker who offered to pay for the
> transmitter
> and sent an engineer to dismantle the transmitter and haul it away.
> Two flatbed trailers
> were required to haul the transmitter cabinets, power supplies,
> cooling systems, combiner
> systems, and other related gear. I think the transmitter is now on
> the air in Ohio somewhere.
> We are glad the transmitter found a good home.
>
> These days, it would have all just ended up in a dumpster.
> There will certainly be a glut of used analog transmitters on the
> market next year.
>
> The building on San Bruno had been in a poor state of repair for the
> last years KCSM
> was occupying it, so I worked with KNTV to make sure they knew where
> the problems like roof
> and wall leaks, doors with serious rust problems, electrical gear
> problems, broken plumbing,
> etc. were with the building so they could get them fixed before moving
> in.
> (In a place where the rain blows sideways and upwards wall leaks are
> almost as bad as
> roof leaks...)
>

By "ARTS" do you mean the "Classical Arts Showcase", CAS?

CAS is a free TV feed offered by a foundation to anyone who will
broadcast it without commercials.

CAS typically shows a segment of some classical art, a movement of a
symphony, a scene from a ballet, Fritz Kreisler playing a movement of
a violin concerto, etc. I once saw Charlton Hestons first film
appearance (I believe he was a student at Northwestern at the time) in
a novel filming of "The Hall Of the Mountain King".

Channel 32 used to broadcast it in analog, but not digital.

It's actually pretty good, when you get a little accustomed to, say, a
grainy B/W film of a 1949 performance of Maria Callas.

Anyway, CAS is sometimes excellent and almost always interesting, tho
seldom HDTV! And it would be good to see it back on the OTA airwaves.



-- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen H. Fischer"
<SFischer1@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> At 12:55 AM 9/4/2008 I noted that KMTP-DT 32.1 Has The "ARTS"
programming.
>
> What is interesting is that KMTP Analog 32 is not coming in. ( I
record it
> at 11:30 AM Each day, was OK Wed.)
>
> The SD program listings shows "00:00 - Russia Today (32 KMTP and
KMTP-DT
> 32.1), ends 06:00 News".
>
>  Perhaps I can soon not use any analog signals at all, KMTP is the
last one.
>
> SHF
>

Are any of the Networks putting their eastern feeds on their secondary
channels??? If not, why not?
We have kids and like to go to bed at a reasonable hour.
PLUS I feel like a second-class citizen when live events are tape
delayed here in Pacific time.
Keith in Monterey
(KSBW does NOT respond to queries via their website)

Those worried about KNTV-DT and KGO-DT power levels post 2009 should take a gander at this link.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0001/t.12659.html

--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Swank, Richard (NBC Universal, KNTV)"
<Richard.Swank@...> wrote:
>
> I do not know of anyone doing this.  Revenue and viewer base is my guess
> why its not and why there is a delay in the first place.  Live sporting
> events (NFL, PGA and some others) are primarily the only events not
> delayed from EST to PST.  Actually the DNC and RNC are not being delayed
> either as far as I can tell.
>

I remember visiting TechTV's studios a while ago for a taping of The Screen
Savers. They
mentioned that pretty much all the clocks that weren't visible on camera were
set to
Eastern time. This is because it's the sort of de-facto time zone for the
industry.
Harkening back to my time a long time ago at KUOP-FM, it was certainly true
where the
satellites were concerned. And, of course, growing up, every non-sporting event
that was
"live" was always tape delayed for the west coast (awards shows, more recently
reality
show finale episodes, American Idol, etc, etc).

I actually see DVRs, the digital TV changeover and moore's law's Internet
bandwidth corollary as harbingers of a rapidly approaching transition to
Internet TV delivery. I think
DTV will only be with us for about 10 years before it's obsolete. By then, the
idea of a 20
megabit Internet connection to the home won't be unusual (today such connections
not
only exist, but in some countries, they're the norm), and that's about as much
bandwidth
as an ATSC channel carries. The 300 MHz of remaining TV bandwidth will likely
wind up
being turned into more mobile device internet bandwidth and we'll download our
favorite
TV shows. In that universe, "schedule" will merely refer to the first
availability of a show,
not an appointment for viewing.

Of course, this will be tremendously democratizing for media, just as YouTube
has shown.
Lewis Black's joke about showing pilots to rooms filled with monkeys won't fly
anymore.
Got a pilot? Throw it on the net. The world is your test audience.

--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Swank, Richard (NBC Universal, KNTV)"
<Richard.Swank@...> wrote:
>
> Yes we are different and thank god for that.

My wife is from Michigan / Florida (grew up in both places at different times),
and she had
never heard of Best Foods Mayonnaise, and she wondered why we didn't have
Hellman's.

Tee hee.

KMTP 32 has got to be the worse quality local channel on tv. All the
tv stations are pure picture quality. Some PBS channels look average,
but KMTP 32 is the worse. There were some shows that was TOO DARK to
watch. I see something moving, but don't know what is on the picture.

--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "epicurusradium" <gene9@...> wrote:
>
> Having gotten back to the set for another look, I am disappointed in
> the really poor quality/resolution of what is currently being
> transmitted. It looks like a VHS home video. (the previous CD or
> whatever source was too dark to judge that)
>
> Still,,, better than the static slide they had all the time.
>
> --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "epicurusradium" <gene9@> wrote:
> >
> > At10:26 am this morning both analog and digital KMTP signals are
> > showing the Classic Arts Showcase. It's about time they got that
> > program feed patched in! (I do like classical music)
> >
> >
> > --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen H. Fischer"
> > <SFischer1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > At 12:55 AM 9/4/2008 I noted that KMTP-DT 32.1 Has The "ARTS"
> > programming.
> > >
> > > What is interesting is that KMTP Analog 32 is not coming in. ( I
> > record it
> > > at 11:30 AM Each day, was OK Wed.)
> > >
> > > The SD program listings shows "00:00 - Russia Today (32 KMTP and
> > KMTP-DT
> > > 32.1), ends 06:00 News".
> > >
> > >  Perhaps I can soon not use any analog signals at all, KMTP is the
> > last one.
> > >
> > > SHF
> > >
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: epicurusradium

To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:32 AM

Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: KMTP-DT 32.1 has "ARTS", KMTP 32 analog gone?

At10:26 am this morning both analog and digital KMTP signals are
showing the Classic Arts Showcase. It's about time they got that
program feed patched in! (I do like classical music)

.

Is World Channel still be airing their shows on this Digital
Station? That show at 7PM ends tonight and if they move, no ending.

--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen H. Fischer"
<SFischer1@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Well, at 15:25 when I checked, KMTP-DT 32.1 was showing:
>
>       15:00 - Journal: With Business
>       32 KMTP, ends 15:30
>
>       At 15:30 the program also matched the Schedule with:
>
>             15:30 - Sport Extrem Spezial
>             32 KMTP, ends 16:00 Special
>
>
>
>       I still cannot get KMTP Analog 32 with my HDTV with rotten
tuners but I can get it with another tuner in my HTPC.
>
>       Tomorrow I will try to switch the 11:30 AM "In Focus"
recording to KMTP-DT 32.1.
>
>       YES! I no longer need ANY analog signals.
>
>       SHF
>
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: epicurusradium
>   To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:32 AM
>   Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Re: KMTP-DT 32.1 has "ARTS", KMTP 32
analog gone?
>
>
>   At10:26 am this morning both analog and digital KMTP signals are
>   showing the Classic Arts Showcase. It's about time they got that
>   program feed patched in! (I do like classical music)
>
>   .
>

You are too optimistic for the transition to internet TV. Broadcast TV
probably won't go away in 10 years. I won't be surprised it lasts
another 50 years given the speed of this country adopts technology.
Even if the broadcast TV goes away sooner, it won't be killed by
Internet TV but more likely be killed by DVRs. Ever since I built my
PC based HD DVR, I don't know what TV commercials are going on
anymore. If enough people are like me, how do broadcast TV stations
make money?

--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Nick Sayer" <nsayer@...> wrote:
>
> --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "Swank, Richard (NBC
Universal, KNTV)"
> <Richard.Swank@> wrote:
> >
> > I do not know of anyone doing this.  Revenue and viewer base is my
guess
> > why its not and why there is a delay in the first place.  Live
sporting
> > events (NFL, PGA and some others) are primarily the only events not
> > delayed from EST to PST.  Actually the DNC and RNC are not being
delayed
> > either as far as I can tell.
> >
>
> I remember visiting TechTV's studios a while ago for a taping of The
Screen Savers. They
> mentioned that pretty much all the clocks that weren't visible on
camera were set to
> Eastern time. This is because it's the sort of de-facto time zone
for the industry.
> Harkening back to my time a long time ago at KUOP-FM, it was
certainly true where the
> satellites were concerned. And, of course, growing up, every
non-sporting event that was
> "live" was always tape delayed for the west coast (awards shows,
more recently reality
> show finale episodes, American Idol, etc, etc).
>
> I actually see DVRs, the digital TV changeover and moore's law's
Internet bandwidth corollary as harbingers of a rapidly approaching
transition to Internet TV delivery. I think
> DTV will only be with us for about 10 years before it's obsolete. By
then, the idea of a 20
> megabit Internet connection to the home won't be unusual (today such
connections not
> only exist, but in some countries, they're the norm), and that's
about as much bandwidth
> as an ATSC channel carries. The 300 MHz of remaining TV bandwidth
will likely wind up
> being turned into more mobile device internet bandwidth and we'll
download our favorite
> TV shows. In that universe, "schedule" will merely refer to the
first availability of a show,
> not an appointment for viewing.
>
> Of course, this will be tremendously democratizing for media, just
as YouTube has shown.
> Lewis Black's joke about showing pilots to rooms filled with monkeys
won't fly anymore.
> Got a pilot? Throw it on the net. The world is your test audience.
>