Do we still need a VHF (as well as UHF) antenna after Feb 17 2009 to
receive OTA channels?

According to this site:

     http://www.choisser.com/channels.html

After that date, KNTV is assigned to channel 12:

     12 KNTV San Jose Mt. San Bruno 103 1237

If I understand correctly, channel 12 is a VHF channel (205.25–209.75
MHz: TV channel 12 from wiki). Is the answer then a yes to my question?

Regards,
Luen

After the transition, there will be channels 7 and 12; both are VHF.

luenlin wrote:
> Do we still need a VHF (as well as UHF) antenna after Feb 17 2009 to
> receive OTA channels?
>
> According to this site:
>
>     http://www.choisser.com/channels.html
>
> After that date, KNTV is assigned to channel 12:
>
>     12 KNTV San Jose Mt. San Bruno 103 1237
>
> If I understand correctly, channel 12 is a VHF channel (205.25–209.75
> MHz: TV channel 12 from wiki). Is the answer then a yes to my question?
>
> Regards,
> Luen
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Announcement sent out by Red Dana, Manager, KQED/KTEH/KQET Audience Services:

Starting Monday 12/17, The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer will be produced and aired in HD! You'll be able to catch one of America's most trusted news programs Mon-Fri 3pm & 6pm, with overnight repeats Tues-Sat 1:30am & 5am. The NewsHour will also broadcast a segment offering a behind the scenes look at our transition to HD reported by Media producer Jeffrey Brown on the Friday 12/14 program. 

Also, we had a part burn out at our digital transmitter for KQET, so DT25.1 through DT25.5 have been off the air since last Friday. The part is currently back at the factory being rebuilt, and we hope to have it back in place and the signal back on by Wednesday or Thursday of this week (12/12 or 12/13).  

KQED's HD service is available Over The Air (OTA) 5pm-6am on KQED HD (DT9.1), KTEH HD (DT54.1), and KQET HD (25.1), and 24hrs/7days on Comcast Channel 709.

I have a 2-story (35-foot high) house near Stevens Creek and Lawrence
in the South Bay.  I aim a CM 3018 (or maybe it's a 3016) at Mt Sutro
in San Francisco, about 45-miles away to pick up HDTV signals. I
installed it in my attic in 2003, and it was fine, better in evenings,
sometimes 'no signal' in the mornings.  Recently, I completely lost
channels 2.1 and 4.1/4.2 and 7.1 is spotty.  I checked the antenna.  A
couple of the fins (?) were pushed out of position, so I put them back
in place.  The reception though has NOT retuned to normal.  Question:
Did something change recently?  What else should I do?

Also I home-built a HD DVR based on a fast PC and a HD tuner. Because
I can't get signal, it won't record those channels.

Question: When cable is forced to convert to HD in Feb 2009, will
cable TV provide everything in HD?  And can I simply toss my OTA
antenna setup?

Question: Will the HD tuner pick up all new signals in Feb 2009?

Thanks in advance for your reply!

I have a 2-story (35-foot high) house near Stevens Creek and Lawrence
in the South Bay. I aim a CM 3018 (or maybe it's a 3016) at Mt Sutro
in San Francisco, about 45-miles away to pick up HDTV signals. I
installed it in my attic in 2003, and it was fine, better in evenings,
sometimes 'no signal' in the mornings. Recently, I completely lost
channels 2.1 and 4.1/4.2 and 7.1 is spotty. I checked the antenna. A
couple of the fins (?) were pushed out of position, so I put them back
in place. The reception though has NOT retuned to normal. Question:
Did something change recently? What else should I do?

[ Could be many things, including relatively random atmospheric changes.  I myself was having problems with 2.1 and added a pre-amplifier -- which in my case seemed to take care of the problem.  Also, what tuner are you using?  The quality of the tuner can play a role.  For a PC-based HD tuner, VBox and the SiliconDust HDHomerun have good reputations. ]

Also I home-built a HD DVR based on a fast PC and a HD tuner. Because
I can't get signal, it won't record those channels.

Question: When cable is forced to convert to HD in Feb 2009, will
cable TV provide everything in HD? And can I simply toss my OTA
antenna setup?

[ Cable WON'T be forced to convert to digital in Feb. 2009.  The Feb. 2009 mandate is for over-the-air.  Cable operators can continue to provide the same service as now.  And no, I can confidently say they won't be providing everything in HD. 

The OTA antenna setup will continue to work as now. ]

Question: Will the HD tuner pick up all new signals in Feb 2009

[ Not quite understanding the question.  If it is an HD tuner, that means it can pick up digitals, and that means you'll be ok after Feb. 2009. ]

Thanks in advance for your reply!

I too, had the CM 3016 or 3018, and I wasn't very impressed with the gain.
  Last summer, I switched to a CM 4248 with much better results.  I used to
get the cliff edge effect with my old antenna, especially during overcast
or rainy days.  I haven't had a single issue with any of the main networks
since I put up the new antenna.  I'm in south San Jose, about 43 miles
from Sutro.

I highly recommend the CM 4248.


Paggy


--- Larry Kenney <Larry@...> wrote:

> On Dec 12, 2007, at 5:04 PM, valleydude0000 wrote:
>
>  > .... The reception though has NOT retuned to normal. Question:
>  > Did something change recently? What else should I do?
>  >
>  > Also I home-built a HD DVR based on a fast PC and a HD tuner. Because
>  > I can't get signal, it won't record those channels.
>
> It's difficult to say why your reception has changed.  It could be the
> weather conditions, the wetter grounds and trees around you, a
> change in the atmosphere, or something being built up in your
> area that's blocking the signal or causing multipath reflections.
>
> It sounds like you're right at the edge of the cliff for reception, so a
> pre-amp might help you by increasing the overall signal levels.  A
> better antenna will also help.  Everyone seems to have good luck
> with the Channel Master 4228.  It's worked the best for me, and
> I've tried several different antennas on my roof.
>
>  > Question: When cable is forced to convert to HD in Feb 2009, will
>  > cable TV provide everything in HD? And can I simply toss my OTA
>  > antenna setup?
>  >
>  > Question: Will the HD tuner pick up all new signals in Feb 2009?
>
> Cable and satellite services will be sending out the digital channels,
> either converting them to analog prior to doing it, or using a digital
> to analog converter box at your home.  Cable has to do this for three
> years after the analog shut down.  I don't know about satellite.
> Dish network is already providing an analog output of the digital
> channels from its receivers.  As the analog channels go away, their
> digital counterparts will be sent out in their place.
>
> Everything won't be in HD, because what the stations are sending
> out won't all be in HD.  Stations are only required to transmit a
> digital signal.  Some stations might never transmit HD.   We're
> seeing more and more HD programming... and commercials... all
> the time, but I don't think we'll ever see all HD programming.
>
> I'm not sure exactly what you mean by your last question when
> you say "all new signals".   We might see a few changes in signal
> strength due to the stations using more permanent antennas after
> the analog shut down, and some of the stations will be changing
> channels, but much of what we have now will remain the way it is.
> For a list of the channel assignments after February, 2009, check
> the bottom of the channel list page on my web site:
> http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
> where you'll find the final assignments, announced a few months
> ago by the FCC.  You'll notice that most of the digital stations will
> remain right where they are now.
>
> Larry
> SF
>
> >
>
>



      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

> Question: When cable is forced to convert to HD in Feb 2009, will
> cable TV provide everything in HD?  And can I simply toss my OTA
> antenna setup?

If you are already subscribing to basic (Comcast) cable, you can get
most of the local stations in digital (and HD when they broadcast
it) right now with no cable box needed. Due to an FCC mandate, if
the cable provides local broadcast stations in digital on the cable,
they must not encrypt them. All you need is an HDTV set able to
decode "QAM" digital cable signals. This is how I watch digital/HD
television all the time since some of the stations are spotty OTA
where I live.

While all new HDTV sets have to include an OTA digital tuner, not
all of them have a QAM tuner. Look for it in the TV specs. (Digital
TV on the cable uses a completely different modualation scheme than
OTA.)

My cable system (south Sunnyvale Comcast) is typical, I get KTVU
Fox, KCBS CBS, KGO ABC (3 subchans), KQED PBS (5 subchans), and KNTV
NBC (2 subchans). There is an upgrade coming where KRON MyTV and
KBCW CW will be added. All of these are in HD (when the station is
broadcasting it). Of course you can pay more and get more cable-only
digital and HD channels, they are encrypted on the cable and require
an addressable Comcast digital box (or CableCARD) to receive them.

As far as throwing away your antenna, I wouldn't. I use mine right
now to fill in the stations I don't get on the cable and to watch TV
when the cable goes out (happens occasionally).

Hope this helps
Jim in Sunnyvale

CM4248 alone will not cover all of the digital channels because it is
an UHF only antenna. In fact CM4248 does not even appear in channel
master's 2006 catalog. It is not a complete solution for your digital
OTA reception.

But CM4228 will cover channels 7 to 69, which covers all of the
digital channels in the SF Bay Area.

--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Paggy <deanpag66@...> wrote:
>
> I too, had the CM 3016 or 3018, and I wasn't very impressed with
the gain.
>  Last summer, I switched to a CM 4248 with much better results.  I
used to
> get the cliff edge effect with my old antenna, especially during
overcast
> or rainy days.  I haven't had a single issue with any of the main
networks
> since I put up the new antenna.  I'm in south San Jose, about 43
miles
> from Sutro.
>
> I highly recommend the CM 4248.
>
>
> Paggy
>
>
> --- Larry Kenney <Larry@...> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 12, 2007, at 5:04 PM, valleydude0000 wrote:
> >
> >  > .... The reception though has NOT retuned to normal. Question:
> >  > Did something change recently? What else should I do?
> >  >
> >  > Also I home-built a HD DVR based on a fast PC and a HD tuner.
Because
> >  > I can't get signal, it won't record those channels.
> >
> > It's difficult to say why your reception has changed.  It could
be the
> > weather conditions, the wetter grounds and trees around you, a
> > change in the atmosphere, or something being built up in your
> > area that's blocking the signal or causing multipath reflections.
> >
> > It sounds like you're right at the edge of the cliff for
reception, so a
> > pre-amp might help you by increasing the overall signal levels.  A
> > better antenna will also help.  Everyone seems to have good luck
> > with the Channel Master 4228.  It's worked the best for me, and
> > I've tried several different antennas on my roof.
> >
> >  > Question: When cable is forced to convert to HD in Feb 2009,
will
> >  > cable TV provide everything in HD? And can I simply toss my OTA
> >  > antenna setup?
> >  >
> >  > Question: Will the HD tuner pick up all new signals in Feb
2009?
> >
> > Cable and satellite services will be sending out the digital
channels,
> > either converting them to analog prior to doing it, or using a
digital
> > to analog converter box at your home.  Cable has to do this for
three
> > years after the analog shut down.  I don't know about satellite.
> > Dish network is already providing an analog output of the digital
> > channels from its receivers.  As the analog channels go away,
their
> > digital counterparts will be sent out in their place.
> >
> > Everything won't be in HD, because what the stations are sending
> > out won't all be in HD.  Stations are only required to transmit a
> > digital signal.  Some stations might never transmit HD.   We're
> > seeing more and more HD programming... and commercials... all
> > the time, but I don't think we'll ever see all HD programming.
> >
> > I'm not sure exactly what you mean by your last question when
> > you say "all new signals".   We might see a few changes in signal
> > strength due to the stations using more permanent antennas after
> > the analog shut down, and some of the stations will be changing
> > channels, but much of what we have now will remain the way it is.
> > For a list of the channel assignments after February, 2009, check
> > the bottom of the channel list page on my web site:
> > http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
> > where you'll find the final assignments, announced a few months
> > ago by the FCC.  You'll notice that most of the digital stations
will
> > remain right where they are now.
> >
> > Larry
> > SF
> >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>

I live near Bollinger and Miller, close to where valleydude0000
lives. I recently installed rotator and preamp and they helped
reception. Yet still channel 4.2 was the hardest one to get a good
reception. There was only 1 degree in angle that the antenna had to
aim so that I could receive stable 4.2 broadcast. My RS VU-190 was
installed on a single story roof on a 10 ft pole with rotator and
preamp. In the direction my antenna aims toward Sutro tower, there is
a huge camphor tree in my neighbor's backyard. That tree can be a
filter to my UHF reception. Can anyone of you confirm?

--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kenney <Larry@...> wrote:
>
> On Dec 12, 2007, at 5:04 PM, valleydude0000 wrote:
>
>  > .... The reception though has NOT retuned to normal. Question:
>  > Did something change recently? What else should I do?
>  >
>  > Also I home-built a HD DVR based on a fast PC and a HD tuner.
Because
>  > I can't get signal, it won't record those channels.
>
> It's difficult to say why your reception has changed.  It could be
the
> weather conditions, the wetter grounds and trees around you, a
> change in the atmosphere, or something being built up in your
> area that's blocking the signal or causing multipath reflections.
>
> It sounds like you're right at the edge of the cliff for reception,
so a
> pre-amp might help you by increasing the overall signal levels.  A
> better antenna will also help.  Everyone seems to have good luck
> with the Channel Master 4228.  It's worked the best for me, and
> I've tried several different antennas on my roof.
>
>  > Question: When cable is forced to convert to HD in Feb 2009, will
>  > cable TV provide everything in HD? And can I simply toss my OTA
>  > antenna setup?
>  >
>  > Question: Will the HD tuner pick up all new signals in Feb 2009?
>
> Cable and satellite services will be sending out the digital
channels,
> either converting them to analog prior to doing it, or using a
digital
> to analog converter box at your home.  Cable has to do this for
three
> years after the analog shut down.  I don't know about satellite.
> Dish network is already providing an analog output of the digital
> channels from its receivers.  As the analog channels go away, their
> digital counterparts will be sent out in their place.
>
> Everything won't be in HD, because what the stations are sending
> out won't all be in HD.  Stations are only required to transmit a
> digital signal.  Some stations might never transmit HD.   We're
> seeing more and more HD programming... and commercials... all
> the time, but I don't think we'll ever see all HD programming.
>
> I'm not sure exactly what you mean by your last question when
> you say "all new signals".   We might see a few changes in signal
> strength due to the stations using more permanent antennas after
> the analog shut down, and some of the stations will be changing
> channels, but much of what we have now will remain the way it is.
> For a list of the channel assignments after February, 2009, check
> the bottom of the channel list page on my web site:
> http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
> where you'll find the final assignments, announced a few months
> ago by the FCC.  You'll notice that most of the digital stations
will
> remain right where they are now.
>
> Larry
> SF
>
> >
>

It is not technically correct to say an antenna covers which range
of channels. For example, I have line of sight of sutro 33 miles
away, and my 4228 receives a very good  picture of analog channel 5
but not channel 2. The antenna does not have a built-in filter to
cut off any frequency, it just has different gain on different
channels. 4228 is designed for UHF channel 14 and above, but people
find it still has ok gain on channels 7 - 13. And if you are close
enough to the transmitter, it may just pick up analog channel 2 ok.
So it all depends where you are and how good/bad the signal is.
I live in the east side hill of Pleasanton and anything except sutro
is a challenge. I found cm 4228 stands out in these challenging
channels from walnut grove, monument peak and San Bruno mountain.
Walnut grove is distance challenging, monument peak is completely
blocked by hills and San bruno is both hill blocking and distance.
4228 with 7777 preamp pulls in KICU 52 from Monument peak solid
while no other antenna could do it. 4228 + 7777 also pulls in most
walnut grove channels(except Fox 55 and PBS 53) 45 miles away solid.
KTSF 27 from San Bruno was the most troublesome but I still found
one spot in my back yard to get it. 4228 fails miserably on NBC 12
from san bruno because its gain drops sharply once gets into high
VHF. I use a winegard ya 1713 high gain high VHF antenna to get NBC
12 most of the time.
So based on my experience, the ultimate antenna system for digital
channels is
CM 4228 + Winegard YA-1713 + CM 7777 preamp. CM 7777 has a VHF-UHF
combining mode which combines 4228 and 1713 beautifully. The most
elegant thing is that you end up with only one coax cable going into
your house and TV. This cable carries the combined signal down
stream to feed the tv and carries DC power supply from inside house
up stream to feed the preamplifier. It works perfectly with a DVR
even if the VHF and UHF channels come from different directions.
--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, "luenlin" <luenlin@...> wrote:
>
> CM4248 alone will not cover all of the digital channels because it
is
> an UHF only antenna. In fact CM4248 does not even appear in
channel
> master's 2006 catalog. It is not a complete solution for your
digital
> OTA reception.
>
> But CM4228 will cover channels 7 to 69, which covers all of the
> digital channels in the SF Bay Area.
>
> --- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Paggy <deanpag66@> wrote:
> >
> > I too, had the CM 3016 or 3018, and I wasn't very impressed with
> the gain.
> >  Last summer, I switched to a CM 4248 with much better results.
I
> used to
> > get the cliff edge effect with my old antenna, especially during
> overcast
> > or rainy days.  I haven't had a single issue with any of the
main
> networks
> > since I put up the new antenna.  I'm in south San Jose, about 43
> miles
> > from Sutro.
> >
> > I highly recommend the CM 4248.
> >
> >
> > Paggy
> >
> >
> > --- Larry Kenney <Larry@> wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 12, 2007, at 5:04 PM, valleydude0000 wrote:
> > >
> > >  > .... The reception though has NOT retuned to normal.
Question:
> > >  > Did something change recently? What else should I do?
> > >  >
> > >  > Also I home-built a HD DVR based on a fast PC and a HD
tuner.
> Because
> > >  > I can't get signal, it won't record those channels.
> > >
> > > It's difficult to say why your reception has changed.  It
could
> be the
> > > weather conditions, the wetter grounds and trees around you, a
> > > change in the atmosphere, or something being built up in your
> > > area that's blocking the signal or causing multipath
reflections.
> > >
> > > It sounds like you're right at the edge of the cliff for
> reception, so a
> > > pre-amp might help you by increasing the overall signal
levels.  A
> > > better antenna will also help.  Everyone seems to have good
luck
> > > with the Channel Master 4228.  It's worked the best for me, and
> > > I've tried several different antennas on my roof.
> > >
> > >  > Question: When cable is forced to convert to HD in Feb
2009,
> will
> > >  > cable TV provide everything in HD? And can I simply toss my
OTA
> > >  > antenna setup?
> > >  >
> > >  > Question: Will the HD tuner pick up all new signals in Feb
> 2009?
> > >
> > > Cable and satellite services will be sending out the digital
> channels,
> > > either converting them to analog prior to doing it, or using a
> digital
> > > to analog converter box at your home.  Cable has to do this
for
> three
> > > years after the analog shut down.  I don't know about
satellite.
> > > Dish network is already providing an analog output of the
digital
> > > channels from its receivers.  As the analog channels go away,
> their
> > > digital counterparts will be sent out in their place.
> > >
> > > Everything won't be in HD, because what the stations are
sending
> > > out won't all be in HD.  Stations are only required to
transmit a
> > > digital signal.  Some stations might never transmit HD.   We're
> > > seeing more and more HD programming... and commercials... all
> > > the time, but I don't think we'll ever see all HD programming.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure exactly what you mean by your last question when
> > > you say "all new signals".   We might see a few changes in
signal
> > > strength due to the stations using more permanent antennas
after
> > > the analog shut down, and some of the stations will be changing
> > > channels, but much of what we have now will remain the way it
is.
> > > For a list of the channel assignments after February, 2009,
check
> > > the bottom of the channel list page on my web site:
> > > http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
> > > where you'll find the final assignments, announced a few months
> > > ago by the FCC.  You'll notice that most of the digital
stations
> will
> > > remain right where they are now.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > > SF
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
_____________________________________________________________________
_
> ______________
> > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >
>

Thanks for this info!

I'm in the process of writing a series of articles
about the conversion for the Slingbox web site. I have
a few questions:

1. Will the conversion to digital eliminate the RF
interference I get from Sutro? I hooked up a
surveillance camera with unshielded cable. I turned it
on and I got Oprah. I had to fuss around with the
cable so that it was shielded by metal in the house
before I could see my front door on the monitor.

2. Is there anything I can do in the meantime to
reduce or eliminate the interference from KGO?

3. Do you see a conversion to digital radio in the
future?

4. Besides the group, are there any online resources
for folks who want to try an OTA conversion box now,
before the mandated change?

5. I expect that there will be a lot of fraud with the
coupons and the boxes, just like the fraud
that’s occurred with the Food Stamp program. Do
you know of any sites to report such fraud?


Larry




--- Larry Kenney <Larry@...> wrote:

> Announcement sent out by Red Dana, Manager,
> KQED/KTEH/KQET Audience
> Services:
>
> Starting Monday 12/17, The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer
> will be produced
> and aired in HD! You'll be able to catch one of
> America's most
> trusted news programs Mon-Fri 3pm & 6pm, with
> overnight repeats Tues-
> Sat 1:30am & 5am. The NewsHour will also broadcast a
> segment offering
> a behind the scenes look at our transition to HD
> reported by Media
> producer Jeffrey Brown on the Friday 12/14 program.
>
> Also, we had a part burn out at our digital
> transmitter for KQET, so
> DT25.1 through DT25.5 have been off the air since
> last Friday. The
> part is currently back at the factory being rebuilt,
> and we hope to
> have it back in place and the signal back on by
> Wednesday or Thursday
> of this week (12/12 or 12/13).
>
> KQED's HD service is available Over The Air (OTA)
> 5pm-6am on KQED HD
> (DT9.1), KTEH HD (DT54.1), and KQET HD (25.1), and
> 24hrs/7days on
> Comcast Channel 709.

Is anyone else not getting KTVU in HD LiL on DirecTV?  All I get a
black screen.
I can get the other local HD LiL but not KTVU.

Who do I write to, to bitterly complain about the unbelievably annoying and
distracting NBC logo and advertisements for other NBC shows displayed
throughout first run episodes of Primetime shows like Journeyman?

I find the logo/advertisements so annoying and distracting that I really do
consider just not watching the show.

Really?  An ad for "The Biggest Loser Finale Tomorrow 9/8c" displayed for a
full hour during Journeyman?  Why? Why? Why?

Matt Dralle
Livermore, CA

For the last couple of days I'm getting very erratic signals on KQED
and KNTV here in Los Altos. Is anyone else having the same experience?

Anyone else with an HD TiVo not getting any guide data for FSN-HD
(720) on Comcast?

--
-Chris

Thanks to Red Dana, Manager, KQED/KTEH/KQET Audience Services, for the following information.

Larry

SF

- - -

Sutro Tower Management is doing maintenance work on the tower today, so Over the Air (OTA) digital transmission was turned off a little before 10am. They hope to have everyone back on by 5pm. Analog transmission OTA and Digital transmission via Comcast Cable is not affected.

Also, the damaged combiner from the KQET transmitter has not yet returned. Turns out it needed replating as well as rebuilding, and is now not expected back until after Christmas. Meanwhile, a little jury-rigging has allowed KQET-DT to operate, but at only 25% power, so some viewers may now be able to receive a less-than-perfect signal.

There is tower work going on at Sutro today.

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Katzeff <lxkatze@...>
Date: Wednesday, Dec 19, 2007 3:02 pm
Subject: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Sutro?
To: HDTV-in-SFbay@...: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com

     What happened to all HD channels?  No signal over the air or Directv.

Larry Katzeff

        Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

> Also, the damaged combiner from the KQET transmitter has not yet
> returned. Turns out it needed replating as well as rebuilding, and
> is now not expected back until after Christmas. Meanwhile, a little
> jury-rigging has allowed KQET-DT to operate, but at only 25% power,
> so some viewers may now be able to receive a less-than-perfect signal.
>
I just checked out the signal level for KQED on my HR21 and it's
still above 90% and
I'm way down south in Cupertino.  Is it really at 25%?

--- In HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com, Matt Thomas <matt@...> wrote:
>
> > Also, the damaged combiner from the KQET transmitter has not yet
> > returned. Turns out it needed replating as well as rebuilding, and
> > is now not expected back until after Christmas. Meanwhile, a little
> > jury-rigging has allowed KQET-DT to operate, but at only 25% power,
> > so some viewers may now be able to receive a less-than-perfect signal.
> >
> I just checked out the signal level for KQED on my HR21 and it's
> still above 90% and
> I'm way down south in Cupertino.  Is it really at 25%?
>
KQET is at 25%.  KQED is at 100%.....

The transmitter power level has very little effect on what signal level is
indicated on most consumer receivers.  That is more of an indication of signal
quality rather than signal strength.  As long as you have enough signal to
overcome the "cliff effect" the transmitter power is not an issue.


-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Thomas <matt@...>
Date: Wednesday, Dec 19, 2007 5:03 pm
Subject: Re: [HDTV-in-SFbay] Digital signal update-Sutro & KQET
To: HDTV-in-SFbay@...: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com

> Also, the damaged combiner from the KQET transmitter has not yet
  returned. Turns out it needed replating as well as rebuilding, and
  is now not expected back until after Christmas. Meanwhile, a little
  jury-rigging has allowed KQET-DT to operate, but at only 25% power,
  so some viewers may now be able to receive a less-than-perfect signal.

I just checked out the signal level for KQED on my HR21 and it's
still above 90% and
I'm way down south in Cupertino.  Is it really at 25%?



Yahoo! Groups Links

DirecTV takes most of the SF DTV stations off-air so if Sutro is gone so be
DirecTV, and for that also Dish.

KNTV should remain in HD and analog as we feed both signals to DirecTV via fiber
optics.  Not Dish however.


Richard Swank

-----Original Message-----
From: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com <HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com>
To: HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com <HDTV-in-SFbay@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed Dec 19 18:02:35 2007
Subject: [LIKELY_SPAM][HDTV-in-SFbay] Sutro?

What happened to all HD channels?  No signal over the air or Directv.

Larry Katzeff

________________________________

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Is there any way to find out when there is or will be outages or
problems with transmission from Sutro Tower? There seems to be an outage
now!

Don Hackler wrote:
>
>
> The transmitter power level has very little effect on what signal level
> is indicated on most consumer receivers. That is more of an indication
> of signal quality rather than signal strength. As long as you have
> enough signal to overcome the "cliff effect" the transmitter power is
> not an issue.
>
!???!?!?? I seem to recall you mentioning in some earlier post that KCSM
is running at 250 Kw? My signal meter / random number generators show
KCSM at only a little lower than KGO-DT (~728 Kw?) and KPIX-DT (1000
Kw). Do any of the stations' engineering personnel actually know how
their ERP affects (effects?) their coverage area? And do they understand
how environmental conditions affect their signal propagation well enough
so they could modulate their power based on conditions? And would the
FCC pitch a hissy fit if someone were to try this? Would it be true to
say that beyond some point extra power does more harm than good by
strengthening reflections from various obstacles? Enquiring mind wants
to know. (according to Linux look `enquiring' is correct - don't know
what Mozilla is whining about?)

Back a few years ago something exploded in KGO-DT's transmitter /
antenna shortly before the Orange bowl (thus cruelly forcing me to watch
a hideous mess via NTSC). Before the next bowl game they managed to use
duct tape, chicken wire, and bubble gum wrappers to get their digital
setup back up. But if I understand they were sending half power into
half an antenna for a total of 25%? The remaining bowl games looked fine
(South San Jose 95123). Only a few breakups. Signal meters were like 2/3
of normal. And I'm pretty sure this was with the Radio Shack
omni-directional "2x4" antenna. Larry - do they know how this outage
affected their coverage?

Each stations digital antenna has four of those panel thingies, right?
Does each one send out stuff in a certain direction? And thus requiring
all four for uniform, full coverage (and thus condemning 50% of college
viewers during that ill timed outage to suffer through NTSC?)?

kevin

>