HCI's website is temporarily down for those who may have wondered. It
should be back up in a week or two I'm told. No biggee.

Jim

Wish my name was Barnaby Wainfan!(A Kitplanes aerodynamics article
contributor)My observations on radial cowl baffling are that it is
applied in the same plane as the engine mount rubbers or behind the
last row of cylinders. On our WAR birds this would be approximately a
foot forward of the firewall. Wainfan had a good article sometime ago
on the effect of poor baffling on drag. I'll see if I can dig it up.
Like any other homebuilder I've got enough information to understand
these things but lack the background allowing calculation and
optimizing of the problems we face.

The exhaust design, if made of stainless and utilizing slip joints is
not of great concern. You could probably have any number of stacks
coming off of you collector ring wherever you wanted. It would be a
concern if we were turning high RPM and but our lawnmower type engine
doesn't respond to exhaust finesse like a two stroke or any other
fast breathing engine might.

As far as weight goes you'd gain a few pounds using the stainless
exhaust and the dry sump oil system would take up a few more. I'm
still gathering information on the oil system but it looks like the
only weight increase will be from extra plumbing and an accesory
bracket for the dry sump pump. You've already got an external oil
tank and some plumbing on the factory engine.

Although I'm not even close to putting this thing in a cowl, looking
at the drawings for my WAR F4U seems to indicate that the engine will
be mounted 6"-9" forward of the O-200's CG. (between 4" and 6" aft of
datum) This should help offset the "weight loss" that we'll
experience. Where WARbuilders put their batteries on their plane is a
mystery, but mounting it up front where the action is makes more
sense.


Now for the million dollar question. How close is the seven cylinder
radial to completetion? The reason for this excruciating delay is
that the seven is really being tailored for a scale B-17 project.
Jack has actually redesigned things to a point where the engine
weighs less and is much simpler than the five cylinder version.
They've been experimenting with dual ignition systems and gathering
information that would lead to design features that cater to the
bomber project, hence our wait.

I know we're all impatient about the seven but look at it from HCI's
point of view. Their goal, to sell turn-key engines. In all the years
that the five has been available how many have bought a turn key?
None to my knowlege, just casting kits and plans. If a scale bomber
using HCI radials flies in front of Oshkosh and Sun n Fun spectators
do you think this might change things for them? Oh yeah! Jack's
desire is to make his seven shine in the bomber.

Unfortunately we sit and wait. If any one of us REALLY wants a turn-
key engine the thing to do might be to visit HCI (Jack permitting)
and see this engine operate. If you're leery put a down payment on
the material cost and during you visit see the engine assembled after
the machine work is done before writing the big check. These things
are my thoughts and opnions of course ask Jack what he'd be
comfortable with. He's a really cool, easy going guy but he's also
very busy!

Hope this answers your questions!
Jim

Jim,

Other than the standard FW-190 side exhaust pans/firewall, what other
type of cowl baffling would you need?  Afterall its a radial!?  Also,
it would be nice if they had an exhaust package that replicated the
FW-190 exhaust, or at least went in the right direction to allow the
builder to fabricate the FW-190 quad/split simulated exhaust system.
It shouldn't be to hard to find a sbcontractor that could make the
W.A.R. style engine mounts.  How close is his seven cylinder engine?
What would the all up weight be with aerobatic oil system and all
accessories?  (I am hoping for CG purposes the "all-up" weight is
heavier than stated earlier!?)

George

  --- In HCIRadialbuilder@y..., "Jim Daugherty" <jdessertfirst@y...>
wrote:
> Since I'm building mine and there may be others who are in the same
> boat I decided to make the new pages. The plans I bought several
> years ago had no information regarding external components such as
> the oil system, fuel system and exhaust. The plans were VERY
detailed
> about making the ignition system, oil pump and plumbing and all of
> the engine's parts including how to balance the engine. It was
> assumed that a builder would need to consult with HCI during
building
> and could glean the needed information in the "gray areas".
>
>
> With the turn key engine you get everything that the engine needs
to
> run. All the basic systems such as fuel, ignition and oil are
> included.  You'd have to ask Jack whether the exhaust system they'd
> supply could be taylored for our planes. (I'm fairly sure they
would
> make the collector but then again maybe not.) The engine mount may
or
> may not be part of the package as well. Things like cowl baffling
> would most likely be your responsibility. The oil system they're
> using would work fine for normal flight but there are additional
> things that would be needed for aerobatics.
>
> Hope I didn't alarm anyone too much!
>
> Jim
>
> A call to Jack regarding what their definition of "turn key" means
> would be a good idea. I'm sure they would work with each individual
> builder though.

Since I'm building mine and there may be others who are in the same
boat I decided to make the new pages. The plans I bought several
years ago had no information regarding external components such as
the oil system, fuel system and exhaust. The plans were VERY detailed
about making the ignition system, oil pump and plumbing and all of
the engine's parts including how to balance the engine. It was
assumed that a builder would need to consult with HCI during building
and could glean the needed information in the "gray areas".


With the turn key engine you get everything that the engine needs to
run. All the basic systems such as fuel, ignition and oil are
included.  You'd have to ask Jack whether the exhaust system they'd
supply could be taylored for our planes. (I'm fairly sure they would
make the collector but then again maybe not.) The engine mount may or
may not be part of the package as well. Things like cowl baffling
would most likely be your responsibility. The oil system they're
using would work fine for normal flight but there are additional
things that would be needed for aerobatics.

Hope I didn't alarm anyone too much!

Jim

A call to Jack regarding what their definition of "turn key" means
would be a good idea. I'm sure they would work with each individual
builder though.

Jim,
I assume your talking about external accessories.  Isn't HCI
designing all of that?  What would you get if you ordered the engine
today?

Jimmy Cash


--- In HCIRadialbuilder@y..., "Jim Daugherty" <jdessertfirst@y...>
wrote:
>
> http://www.homestead.com/corsairhalfscale/radialdetails.html
>
> Just picked the brains of the mechanics at my local aviation
museum.
> They took me on a tour of all the good stuff and phoned me when
they
> got the cam out of the BMW's (FW) case.
>
> HCI's plans are very easy to read and understand. Unfortunately the
> old set I have doesn't go into external details needed for a WAR
> replica. (Like I'd expect them to!) Maybe the day will come when
> enough of these engines are mounted in WAR replicas that they will
> have a separate set of plans available for external details. Until
> then we need to find examples of good design that are proven to
work.
>
> The page above is my field trip. Does anyone else have any good
> pictures or drawings? If you do, post them to the FILES section. We
> can all benefit this way.
>
> Jim

http://www.homestead.com/corsairhalfscale/radialdetails.html

Just picked the brains of the mechanics at my local aviation museum.
They took me on a tour of all the good stuff and phoned me when they
got the cam out of the BMW's (FW) case.

HCI's plans are very easy to read and understand. Unfortunately the
old set I have doesn't go into external details needed for a WAR
replica. (Like I'd expect them to!) Maybe the day will come when
enough of these engines are mounted in WAR replicas that they will
have a separate set of plans available for external details. Until
then we need to find examples of good design that are proven to work.

The page above is my field trip. Does anyone else have any good
pictures or drawings? If you do, post them to the FILES section. We
can all benefit this way.

Jim

Good news about the seven! Jack is happy with seven cylinder's
internal parts. They have come up with the solution which solves
adverse cam wear. The cams used for cam profile experimentation are
made of aluminum. The aluminum test cams last 10 hours! Imagine what
that means when they use the real thing! Currently he is trying
different setups for the engine's peripherals and tweaking the valve
timing. The ignition system has been the focus as of late. Not being
entirely pleased with the experimental ignition system he said they
are probably going to stick with the original. Currently they are
considering a lightweight starting system which is unlike the
previous setup as seen on the 5 cyl. Sorry if I seem ambiguous on the
details. Until the design decisions are finalized I'd rather not jump
the gun. Just thought I'd pass the good news on as there are some
people out there who want a seven cylinder radial soon.

Which Geo engine was the Raven redrive impeller going on? With 94mm
jugs HCI's 5 cyl diplaces a little over 3000cc. Although this is
three times the displacement of the Geo it may still be able to
deliver the volume if driven at the right speed. Although I don't
plan on using forced induction on my engine the other 5 cyl builders
may be interested.

Although I'm sticking with 94mm jugs there is a place that makes and
sells custom jugs. Imagine 108mm jugs! Just for fun I plugged in the
values of the 5 cyl on Dyno 2000. With 108's you get 108 horsepower @
2000 RPM! Changing the bore to 85mm yields the factory 68HP @ 2000
RPM.

Dyno 2000 has a function that allows you to input a range of
variables. After it "runs" a few thousand test engines it presents
you with the best combination. I was shocked at to see how much of a
difference valve timing made on these engines. Although I don't
accept this cheap engine software program as gospel it's all I have
to go on.

Merline do you know anyone who has access to 4 stroke design software?
Here's the web address of the sofware I'd really like to get some
answers from.

http://www.optimum-power.com/main-products.htm

(Not the FSAE 4 stroke software but the full version)

Jim Daugherty

Gentlemen;

Raven Redrives of Boulder, Colorado has developed a super charger as
an add on for their Geo engines. Their impeller may be useable on the
HCI engines. I never thought to inquire, if these impellers can be
purchase separately. I thought HCI would develope their own super
chargers complete for guys like me to build. Several years ago, when I
was visiting with Jack and he relayed to me about the fuel problem
with the carb, I suggested the SDS to him and I guess he followed my
suggestion and went with it. I am using the SDS on my Geo engine,
along with a the HIH turbo charger. As I indicated earlier, I am just
starting to build my 5 engine to replace the Geo. I like your e-mail
questions and answers and the evaluation of the situation in relation
to the on going work. Keep up the topic until we get the answers we
need I will try to assist any way I can.

Merline Van Dyke
Lakewood, Colorado
303-985-5006

Don't hold me to it  but if I remeber right HCI got rid of the
impellor. The main reason for using it was not for supercharging but
for fuel distribution. At the low gas velocities found in the intake
runners at idle fuel was pooling in the lower runners due to gravity.

The cure was to decrease the size of the intake runners thereby
increasing gas velocity. The ultimate cure was to use SDS muti-point
fuel injection. I'd seriously consider SDS's readily programable
system. Jack said that hot starts were not a problem with SDS. (Ever
try handproping a hot engine?) Here's their web address.

http://www.sdsefi.com/

One problem with the impellor is it's high RPM and the need for
balance. For experimentation purposes in they used a vacuum cleaner's
impellor. Jack pointed out to me that you couldn't use a Lexan
impellor as gas weakens it.

I just sent Jack an e-mail asking him to give us an update and if
we're lucky we may even get some pictures!. Last time I talked to him
the seven had been run on the test stand for several hours at max
output or higher RPM. This was some time ago though so good news
should be in order.

Sorry Jim if I seemed to be coming down on the "unscrupulous" bit.
Didn't mean it that way. I had just gotten in from a 14 hour day and
was delirious while typing! (Ah the fun of being an entrepreneur!)

That makes a lot of sense.  I did not mean to imply that HCI is
unscrupulous, and I'm sorry if I did.  It just seems like they have a
lot on their plate right now.  In reality, by the time my project is
ready for the engine, they will hopefully be finished with
development and be in production.

--- In HCIRadialbuilder@y..., "Jim Daugherty" <jdessertfirst@y...>
wrote:
> There is no doubt in my mind that if anyone forked over the cash
for
> an engine HCI could deliver in a timely manner. Jack doesn't strike
> me as unscrupulous. If you really had to have a seven cylinder
radial
> from them NOW they've got one. They just want to be able to offer a
> durable and safe engine, hence the wait. Trying to get an accurate
> answer as to when the seven cyl will be ready is like someone
asking
> when your homebuilt project will be ready. You can only estimate.
> I've been following their development since the first article in
> Kitplanes many years ago. The main problem is the market.
> Homebuilders building the class of airplane that utilizes a radial
of
> this size and HP are generally trying to save money not blow it.
> (Imagine a Lancair with a round engine!)Their target groups are WAR
> replica and Pietenpol builders.
>
>  It's my opinion that they should offer more choices in
their "build
> it yourself" department. Maybe a catalog of individual parts could
be
> made available online. One person talked about a "pay as you go
> option". Buying parts individually would fulfill this need. The
only
> problem with this idea is one of liability. Who do you blame when
the
> dead stick landing happens?
>
> Jim Daugherty

There is no doubt in my mind that if anyone forked over the cash for
an engine HCI could deliver in a timely manner. Jack doesn't strike
me as unscrupulous. If you really had to have a seven cylinder radial
from them NOW they've got one. They just want to be able to offer a
durable and safe engine, hence the wait. Trying to get an accurate
answer as to when the seven cyl will be ready is like someone asking
when your homebuilt project will be ready. You can only estimate.
I've been following their development since the first article in
Kitplanes many years ago. The main problem is the market.
Homebuilders building the class of airplane that utilizes a radial of
this size and HP are generally trying to save money not blow it.
(Imagine a Lancair with a round engine!)Their target groups are WAR
replica and Pietenpol builders.

  It's my opinion that they should offer more choices in their "build
it yourself" department. Maybe a catalog of individual parts could be
made available online. One person talked about a "pay as you go
option". Buying parts individually would fulfill this need. The only
problem with this idea is one of liability. Who do you blame when the
dead stick landing happens?

Jim Daugherty

Hello everybody,
I also have a WAR project, the FW 190, for which the HCI radial looks
perfect.  I'm not very confident as to its development and
production, however.  I have had very little direct contact with the
HCI team, so maybe Jim can give us some perspective.
My impression is that they are hurting for money to complete the
development and start production.  Therefore, they are concentrating
on their other products to generate income.  Totally understandable.
I have had a few email discussions with Jack, and it seems that they
are in a catch22.  They need orders to generate cash flow, but they
have yet to produce an engine.
If I had written them a check at Oshkosh, would they build me an
engine?  Are they taking preliminary orders at a discount to allow an
influx of money to accelerate development?  Is there a timeframe for
development?

Fly Nekid,
Jimmy Cash
T-18, FW190

Things have changed a little since you got the "5" plans. Jack is
playing with new a new link rod design that should deliver more oil
to the piston pins. The tailshaft oil passage has a restricted
passage (#40 drill I think)to allow a more forceful oil spray into
the link rod pins.(they did dye testing to arrive at this conclusion)
The link rods are now bushed with aluminum bronze material on the
master rod end. (Smaller holes in the master rod now) This will allow
very long life of the assembly as bushings are easy to replace and
cheaper than a new master rod or set of link rods! It seems the
majority of the wear on those components occurs at the link/master
rod pins. Piston pins don't pivot as much as their downstairs
neighbors.  There have been suggestions about increasing lifter bore
(combating wear). Widening the rollers and cams may defer or
eliminate the mild mushrooming of the contact surfaces that's
happening on the narrow cam of the "5". For my cam I intend to try
nodular iron and 3/4" needle roller lifters. (.5" wide rollers and
cams) My cam ring will ride on an aluminum hub to save weight.
According to my engine design books nodular iron is used for cams and
has good bearing qualities

Jack has sends his cams off to several different places before
arriving at the finished product.

Hope this gets you started! I'll write some more when I get another
moment.

Jim Daugherty

Howdy everybody;

I purchased the plans and castings to build an engine when the plans
first came out. If I remember correctly, Jack Hereford said I was
Number 6. We have a home business with three of my sons, and that has
restricted my work on the engine. Last May, I run the sons off so I
could work on my airplane and engine. I am in the final stages of
building a Zenair CH-701 from scratch. So now is the time to start on
the engine. Any advise anybody can give me in starting will be most
appreciated. I plan to purchase a lathe and a milling machine and do
much of the machining my self. I was appreciative of your advise on
the size of lathe, etc. on one of your last e-mails. thanks. What have
you fellows done with such things as the cam ring and the super
charger impeller. I thought I would try to buy those from HCI. If
anyone plans to hire a CNC builder, I'm interested in joining to make
another for me. I am a civil engineer, so I can assist with things
like designing the engine mount, etc. If anyone wants to contact me
direct, my phone number is 303-985-5006, and I live in Lakewood a
suburb to Denver, Colorado.

Don't feel bad. I send them e-mails which seem to go unanswered too.
Your best bet is to call them on Monday. (Phone calls work best)
Unfortunately they seem to answer e-mails on a non-regular basis.
Jack is always busy it seems and may not be the one answering e-
mails. I know, I know from the outside it seems a terrible way to run
a business but there is a reason for everything. They are under a
constant deluge of inquiries and it's simply too much. Once the
business starts generating the sales Jack wants I'm sure this will
change.

  I offered to start a message board for him to help take some of
the "heat" off him. Between my webpages and the discussion board most
questions regarding this engine can be answered.

Keep in mind that the "seven" is still having design changes tested.
These changes which will increase longevity, reliability and make
rebuilds less expensive are well worth the wait. Maybe he wants to
test things out a little more. Even in the cert. aviation engine
world it takes years to develop and test an engine.

I'll see what I can do to expedite your order!

Jim Daugherty

http://www.homestead.com/corsairhalfscale/HCIbuilder.html

Jim,

As you know my FW-190 is ready almost to install and engine.
(Filling pinholes and sanding...and sanding!)  Anyway,  The guys at
HCI contacted me about the seven cylinder engine.  The problem I told
them was the price.  I asked them if they were cotemplating a "buy as
you go" kit,  "Lay away" or financing program.  They said they were
putting in a financing program that would appear on their website.
To date,  I have heard nothing further and they have not returned my
email reinquiring about such a program.  If you have any pull with
these guys,  I would appreciate the help!

George
(Wargroup member; www.WarFW190.homestead.com)

For the curious...

http://www.homestead.com/corsairhalfscale/toolsforhci.html

I'm certain that this page will answer most questions about tools
required for building from castings or scratch.

Jim

Hi just dropped by the HCI site to get my radial "fix" and saw the
  Oshkosh photo of the RFA WAR P-47 with the HCI radial next to it.  A
natural match. I can't wait to see a WAR bird with a "round front end"

Bill

Hi Vitaly,

As you probably know I'm a member of WARbuilder also. Aerobatics
should be possible with SDS fuel injection and a flop tube. there are
actually more details to the fuel system than this. I'll get some
pictures eventually. With a carburetor aerobatics aren't possible.

As far as the oil system goes the HCI design uses antifriction
bearings ie. roller, ball etc... Crankcase oil "mist" is all the
bearings need.(Too much oil can be detrimental to antifriction
bearings) The only exceptions are the link rods pins. The oil system
is actually quite simple. Oil is passed through the back of the
tailshaft. It emerges as a stream and feeds the knuckle pins. ( K
pins connect the link rod to the master)The knuckle pins are drilled
and allow  oil to get to the piston pins.

Short duration neg G aerobatics should be doable provided you have a
flop tube in the oil tank.(Or an oil tank that will allow the pump to
draw while inverted) (On HCi's engine the oil tank is separate from
the engine like most radials)The oil pickup tube is located on the
bottom of the engine. So you'd have to have positive G's to feed the
tank.
Yeah you could probably use a dry sump system as used on race cars
and have multiple pickups. This would allow for unlimited neg G
flight. The plumbing would be fun and expensive!

Aircraft Spruce sells aerobatic oil system accesories.
I'll work at getting you some pics of such a system.

By the way, I rarely check my Yahoo mail. If you want to reach me
jdessert@... is the fastest means.

Hope this helps!

Jim Daugherty

The match up of the HCI Radial and W.A.R. birds is a natural! It would
make the front of my WAR Corsair look perfect!  I can't think of
anything that would look better. >grin< Yes, I'm drooling!  I think it
is the perfect alternative to the hard to come by and expensive Cont
0-200.
   I look forward to hearing more positive reports from HCI.

Bill

http://www.homestead.com/corsairhalfscale/pictures.html


Here's a few pictures out of some of the reference material in
the "files" section of our group. They take a little while to
download but should be interesting.

A lot of people are waiting to see "if it really works" before they
jump in and get one. Once HCI crosses the threshold of getting a few
people buzzing around the skies behind their engine they'll be
swamped.

I got a set of 5cyl plans from them years ago and have since amassed
the materials and machinery to make the engine.

When my 1/2 scale F4U is done I'd love to build a Pietenpol with an
HCI 7cyl up front. Two seats and open cockpit is very appealing. Kind
of a cross between my Stearman and Aeronca experiences, both of which
I adore.

This is only a test.

I am contemplating the HCI radial on a Pietenpol but I haven't jumped in yet.. 
I will follow your group with interest.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: HCIRadialbuilder@yahoogroups.com [SMTP:HCIRadialbuilder@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:38 AM
To: HCIRadialbuilder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HCI Radialbuilder] Digest Number 1


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
HCIradialbuilder-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is 1 message in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

       1. New member!
            From: "Jim Daugherty" <jdessertfirst@...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
    Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:42:28 -0000
    From: "Jim Daugherty" <jdessertfirst@...>
Subject: New member!

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one building one of these
engines that had a computer! I'm making a web page where we can all
post pictures and progress of our engines. Welcome shep!



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one building one of these
engines that had a computer! I'm making a web page where we can all
post pictures and progress of our engines. Welcome shep!

If you want to download a file such as a picture or CAD drawing
simply click on the "FILES" link. I've downloaded a picture as an
example. We can exchange .dxf and .dwg files  through this medium as
well. Posting messages and files is a little quirky and may require
more than one attempt. I've found that if you wait a little while
after posting in the files section it usually "takes". This wait
extends a few minutes after it says 100%. We all have the power to
delete our files after posting them in case you posted your favorite
pinup girl accidentally!

You may also notice that your messages take a few minutes to appear
or may not appear at all. Nobody hates you! it's just a quirk in the
system. Try posting again.

Hope this helps any newcomers,
Jim

http://homestead.com/corsairhalfscale/f4u.html   (my corsair website)

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HCIRadialbuilder
group.

   File        : /sawcut.jpg
   Uploaded by : jdessertfirst@...
   Description : 6061 11" round for crankcase

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HCIRadialbuilder/files/sawcut.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

jdessertfirst@...

Hello all,

My name is Jim Daugherty and I am currently building a W.A.R. replica
Corsair. The engine for my plane will be the HCI seven cylinder
radial. Authenticity and weight savings are the motivation for my
decision of using this engine.

As of this date there are no plans available for the seven cylinder.
Fortunately this should change relatively soon. Currently I'm working
off of the five cylinder plans and making the necessary changes.
These changes include...
Two four lobe cams
Gear driven valve system
Changes in case dimensions
Other small >grin< changes

This message board is intended for use by those who have purchased
HCI's plans and are building or seriously considering building an HCI
radial engine. Please keep the content professional and understand
that advice given may not reflect fact. The main purpose of this
board is to exchange reference material, material sources, machine
services and pose ideas. If you are an engineer or have data that you
wish to pose as hard fact please mention your references. Otherwise
everything else will be taken with a grain of salt.

Thanks!
Jim Daugherty