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The Institute for the History of the 1956 Hungarian Revolution   Message List  
Reply Message #35474 of 77769 |
Re: The Institute for the History of the 1956 Hungarian Revolution

A further appeal to the leadership of the DSP and the moderator of the
Green Left list

By Bob Gould

An individual writing under the pseudonym Roger Raven has today
(Sunday) made even more precise his accusation that I am an agent
provocateur. He says that Gould is a "Hard Right agent provocateur"
and he associates my role as a "Hard Right agent provocateur" with
what he calls my "black armband" view of Soviet history.

Presumably anyone who doesn't have a Stalinist view of Soviet history
is in danger of being classified as a right-wing provocateur if they
express their views strongly, as I tend to do.

The term agent provocateur has a precise meaning in the workers
movement: that the person involved is an agent of forces outside the
workers movement, usually the state.

It's fantastic for a man writing under a pseudonym to make such an
assertion about anyone without presenting any evidence. Is it now the
case that on the Green Left list it's possible to accuse someone of
being an agent provocateur without evidence and for the moderator of
the list and the DSP leadership to say nothing about this?

I've previously raised a similar issue concerning indiscriminate
labelling of people in the labour movement as scabs, and sensibly the
people who were using that rhetoric dropped off. At least those people
weren't hiding too hard under a pseudonym.

I pointed out that the term scab introduced the dangerous possibility
of people accused of scabbery taking legal action, as well
indiscriminate use of the term being a bad thing in principle. Much
the same applies to the accusation that I am an agent provocateur,
made by someone who clearly has a developed Stalinist view of
historical events.

Alan Bradley reduced the question to some kind of conflict between
myself and the person who calls himself Roger Raven, but that's furphy
in a situation in which a specific accusation has been made against me.

I repeat my request that the moderator of the Green Left list assert
in the most forceful to the person who calls himself Roger Raven that
he present evidence for his assertion, and if he can't, I insist that
he immediately withdraw the allegation, and that the moderator of the
list take whatever action is necessary to get him to present evidence
or withdraw the allegation.

It's a concrete allegation that can't just be left hanging, and as I
value my political honour and reputation I don't intend to leave it
hanging.






Sun Nov 5, 2006 12:41 pm

bobgould987
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Message #35474 of 77769 |
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As a consequence of my current argument with Bob Gould concerning the 1956 uprising in Hungary, I've resolved to learn all I can about it before I comment...
Michael Berrell
clintreno2001 Offline Send Email
Nov 2, 2006
1:46 pm

As long as you can improve on the witless drivel produced on the East Timor issue by the wsws. The website to which you refer ...
rogerraven Offline Send Email Nov 2, 2006
10:23 pm

Cyber-entity Raven's personal little Moscow Trial By Bob Gould Several people in the DSP leadership circle keep telling me that cyber-entity Raven is a real...
bobgould987 Offline Send Email Nov 4, 2006
11:51 am

... Bob, I suggest you use Google to see if he is real, anonymous or whatever. If you don't know how to do that, just ask. I've just done it myself. His name...
alanb1000 Offline Send Email Nov 4, 2006
1:53 pm

It has long been my experience that true mediocrity is bitterly envious of real talent. While Gould can't claim to be a Windschuttle, his black armband view...
rogerraven Offline Send Email Nov 5, 2006
12:15 am

A further appeal to the leadership of the DSP and the moderator of the Green Left list By Bob Gould An individual writing under the pseudonym Roger Raven has...
bobgould987 Offline Send Email Nov 5, 2006
12:42 pm

Another great example of unwarranted assumptions. In his comment below Bob Gould complains:(A few days ago my old acquaintance Sol Salbe ticks me off for...
Sol Salbe
solthechef Offline Send Email
Nov 5, 2006
5:11 am
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