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Possible Lottery System for Permits   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #58228 of 58998 |
I drove up to the BIC, this morning, to get a permit for a March hike. While
waiting in line, I overheard one of the rangers on duty talking with a hiker
about a new permit system being considered at the park. After getting my permit,
I asked the ranger about the new system. He said they may go to a lottery system
in 2010. It could happen as early as February 2010 (for June permits) but may
take until June 2010 (for October permits) to implement.

As the ranger explained it, the catalyst for this change is the increase of
in-person permit requests, which have grown to the point that all the nights in
corridor campsites are usually taken by the time the rangers get to the faxed
requests. A lottery system would put everyone on equal footing and eliminate the
advantage locals (like me) have. I asked if moving to a lottery system would
also include a move to accepting permit requests via email. That is one of the
details to be worked out.

The ranger also mentioned that they would issue a press release announcing the
lottery system, sometime before implementation. They may even do an email blast
to notify previous permit holders of the impending change. I asked if an
announcement would be made in the Grand Canyon-related Yahoo discussion groups.
The ranger said that hadn't been discussed but was probably a good idea.

While a lottery system is still in the planning phase, the fact that the ranger
was talking so openly about it has me thinking this is probably going to happen.

Bill Ferris
Flagstaff
http://www.gcadventure.com




Mon Nov 2, 2009 1:11 am

billferris2003
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Message #58228 of 58998 |
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I drove up to the BIC, this morning, to get a permit for a March hike. While waiting in line, I overheard one of the rangers on duty talking with a hiker about...
Bill Ferris
billferris2003
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Nov 2, 2009
1:12 am

Bill - This is very interesting. I wonder why they can't develop an online system like is used for camping in National Parks or National Forests. Of course,...
richard2425848
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Nov 2, 2009
1:17 am

Bill - I forgot to ask, what permit did you apply for. Oh, I mean what permit did you get at the window. Richard...
richard2425848
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Nov 2, 2009
1:22 am

Richard - I got a permit for a hike Dennis Foster and I are going to do: BACG, AK9, AH9 (4 nights), AK9, BACG and out. We're heading across the river and east...
Bill Ferris
billferris2003
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Nov 2, 2009
3:45 am

Bill, This pretty much sounds like the same conversation I had with a ranger at the North Rim BCO about 3 weeks ago. I came away from the conversation with...
tiredsole51
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Nov 2, 2009
1:46 pm

How will they handle the commercial guides? John Nanke To: Grand_Canyon_Hikers@yahoogroups.com From: BillFerris@... Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 01:11:54 +0000 ...
JOHN NANKE
nankehiker
Offline Send Email
Nov 3, 2009
3:59 am

Hi John, the commercial guides would put in a request for a permit, just like everyone else. If they win the lottery, they get to lead the hike. If they don't,...
Tom Martin
tom1hazel2
Offline Send Email
Nov 3, 2009
4:36 am

Sure wish they'd come to the 21st century and dump the archaic fax lines. I don't know that many folks that have access to a fax machine anymore. Get the...
mowcowbell
Offline Send Email
Nov 3, 2009
5:48 am

FYI Bill...you don't need a fax machine these days to send a fax...you can use the modem and phone line in your computer...and schedule it to start sending at...
hikerdiane
Offline Send Email
Nov 3, 2009
2:05 pm

Of course, you probably don't have a phone line connected to your computer, you probably have a DSL or cable modem. But you can temporarily connect one, to...
John
johngeyles
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Nov 3, 2009
11:26 pm

Modem? Phone Line? You're joking, right? No landline here at all. I use DSL for internet, and a cell phone for phone service....
mowcowbell
Offline Send Email
Nov 4, 2009
12:08 am

... I've used faxzero.com for several permits and always received my first choice. :) Reid -- http://blog.reidster.net...
Reid Priedhorsky
u2_634
Offline Send Email
Nov 3, 2009
4:41 pm

I have kept my crusty dusty fax machine with dedicated land line for 20 years so I can do my once-a-year permit request. Now I have to trust the USPS and first...
James Hayford
delta_jh
Offline Send Email
Nov 3, 2009
6:27 pm

Well, if I read something earlier in this thread correctly, you may be able to simply email your request. I know that for a while, BIC personnel have been...
John
johngeyles
Offline Send Email
Nov 3, 2009
11:27 pm

Reid - Thanks for that tip... didn't even know about that option! Thanks, Darin...
mowcowbell
Offline Send Email
Nov 4, 2009
12:10 am

In addition to other complaints I have, I wonder why the BCO doesn't take permits four months before the first day of your first hike choice for the date to...
richard2425848
Offline Send Email
Nov 3, 2009
8:46 pm

Actually, we have discussed this option with them and they can add staff to do the work at the start of the month and it's easier overall that way. Also, BCO...
DougN
cheops82
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Nov 3, 2009
10:05 pm

Doug, Thank you for all your hard work on this issue. Your persistence and calm, reasonable approach has been effective. RANT WARNING: I know that they have...
Dick Matthews
hikerdick
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Nov 3, 2009
11:11 pm

Hypothetical - but a point to consider regarding the Lottery and "taking your chances". Currently, because I live in the East, my walk-up first-of-month ...
James Hayford
delta_jh
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Nov 4, 2009
12:25 am

This scenario seems a little strange to me as you can typically list as many permit options as you want in a request and many people report receiving a...
DougN
cheops82
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Nov 4, 2009
12:51 am

... Right, I do list multiple options, my thinking was more along the line of "bettering my chances" of getting a permit not just getting my "dream option" of...
James Hayford
delta_jh
Offline Send Email
Nov 4, 2009
1:01 am

The current system can possibly be abused in a similar way now.  I could send in my fax several times, increasing my odds of one of them ending up near the...
Bob Bordasch
bordasch
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Nov 4, 2009
1:54 am

... If they were identical, I think they would catch on to the mistake and disregard a duplicate. That comes back to - "how many do they get, how many can they...
James Hayford
delta_jh
Offline Send Email
Nov 4, 2009
3:34 am

It does not really make sense to me to attempt to weight all permit requests this way. I can't really see the logic for the simple reason that there are many...
Doug Nering
cheops82
Offline Send Email
Nov 4, 2009
5:42 am

I agree...as far as I can tell, the current system has been working fine, and seems relatively fair to all. I don't understand what is being proposed. What...
Jeff
mplsbeatnik
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Nov 4, 2009
1:23 am

Jeff, I think we should wait to see a formal announcement before attempting an answer in detail. I'm a little surprised at your comment that the system is...
Doug Nering
cheops82
Offline Send Email
Nov 4, 2009
5:53 am

I agree that we need to wait for a formal announcement, before getting too bent out of shape. I was also trying to agree with you that, from my limited point...
Jeff
mplsbeatnik
Offline Send Email
Nov 4, 2009
7:38 am

Important clarification: the cutoff time for faxes is 5pm MST on the first of the month. I recalled this bit of trivia but it took me some searching to find...
Chris F
chris.forsyth
Offline Send Email
Nov 4, 2009
8:19 am

Doug, I used to think that as long as the fax arrived by 8:00 AM, it was all the same because they then shuffled the pile and started. I called to check on...
timhol5
Offline Send Email
Nov 4, 2009
6:27 pm
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