The act of creating is the art.  The mandala is but an impermanent  thing.


James W. Meritt
CISSP, CISA, NSA IAM, PMP
................................................................................\
...........................
Jesus said "...you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
John 8:32
"The Truth is Out There" The X-Files
Jessep: "You can't handle the truth!" (from A Few Good Men written by Aaron
Sorkin)
................................................................................\
.....................
To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should
bear witness unto the truth. -- John 18:37b



-----Original Message-----
From: Peacock Cynthia <CynthiaPeacock@...>
To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Dec 9, 2009 10:31 pm
Subject: Re: [GnosticThought] music and sleep


"...remind me of Tibetan Buddhists who create intricate sand mandalas, just to
estroy them."

  definitely lack their discipline.  I understand about impermanence, but
efinitely think creating something just to destroy it would be pretty
rustrating for me.
Cindy
Cynthia G. Peacock
--- On Wed, 12/9/09, rosiolady@... <rosiolady@...> wrote:

rom: rosiolady@... <rosiolady@...>
ubject: Re: [GnosticThought] music and sleep
o: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
ate: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 12:17 AM




n a message dated 12/8/2009 8:37:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rettysombreuil@ aol.com writes:
Hi Cynthia,
I enjoyed reading your thoughts and like you, I appreciate music and sleep.
However, I think we do differ in your belief that work must be purposeful.
For me, work does not always need a purpose. I would not be filled with
esentment and rage if I was told to dig a hole and then fill it up;
ctually, doing so would remind me of Tibetan Buddhists who create
ntricate sand
andalas, just to destroy them.
Jamie Santos
I agree with Cindy that I like purposeful work. I've often, on the job,
een put to work doing things which are just a "look busy" exercise in
utility, and I hated that. I don't see the Tibetan sand mandalas in that
ight, though. They are more like a beautiful dance that is over when it's
ver, or walking a meditation-maze.
Rosalie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------
No God will send you to Hell for what you do or don't do.

o unsubscribe from this list send a message to: 
GnosticThought-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

ahoo! Groups Links
    Individual Email | Traditional
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There appears to be an evolution of consciousness taking place. The chasm
between the sleepers & the ones awakening appears to be getting wider. If things
were all well & good, we would likely not bother to change (why fix what's not
broken?) and I suspect it's much the same for evolutionary changes.
 
Bast

--- On Wed, 12/9/09, ANNA M WEST <annamayz@...> wrote:


From: ANNA M WEST <annamayz@...>
Subject: [GnosticThought] Waking Up in the Dream
To: "GnosticThought" <gnosticthought@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 10:14 AM


 




Anna's comments: I don't nec. believe in the "dark side." I consider that the
dark and light are all part of the Divine. But I do think that our thoughts
manifest in our realities, though I've yet to be able to change my thoughts so
as to manifest a better aspect of my reality. And I don't state these things as
absolute facts, just my beliefs of the moment.

If there is a "dark side," I think the media loves it. It keeps us focused on
the worst in life - in both the Law & Order and other programs of its ilk and
the news. I think it helps to build the crappy collective consciousness. Certain
politicians keep us scared witless as I guess they can steer us better that way.

Anyway, what do you think of this? Does it have some truth? Or is it a bunch of
stuff? It's a good read anyway, and it's not too long...

Anna in Denver


Waking Up in the Dream

By Molly Hall, About.com (Astrology) Guide

It's part of the end times mythology that the dark side will gain power. But
that the apocalypse or "unveiling" will show us what we need to know -- as a
collective -- to transcend it. Last night, I listened to artist-therapist Paul
Levy discussing this very thing on Red Ice Creations radio. It's the audio
version of his article, The War on Consciousness. His site, awaken in the dream,
is an exploration of how we're dreaming up what's all around us, even the bad
stuff. Levy's stunning insights are a must-read for anyone that wants to
understand why we're dreaming up nightmares.

Black Magic and Consciousness

Magic, as described by my teacher Starhawk, is "the changing of consciousness at
will." You might then see how the calculated shifting of public consciousness,
is a kind of dark magic. One example of the power of the dark was seen in the
days just after September 11th. The nation was in a daze, like when you are
seeing stars and need time to take in what's happened. Very quickly, the public
mind was entranced by images of a distant enemy. And even though evidence comes
out nearly every day that proves the official story is lie, it still has a hold
on the collective consciousness. That's some pretty powerful black magic.

In our own lives, if we don't look at our own darkness, we cast it off onto
others. It's called projecting the shadow, which Levy says is basically a lie.
It's also the foundation for the archetype of the Devil, and how we come to
demonize entire races of people. This reminds me of what my Mom would say when I
was struggling with depression throughout my early life. She advised me to say,
"Get Thee Behind Me, Satan!" For her, there was great fear in looking at the
shadow, and that added to the charge it had for me, too.

In looking at our own nation's shadow, we may be frightened to go there. The
unveiling is showing us that dark power has been allowed to grow, and is now
being unmasked. It's not unlike an abuse situation where you're in denial about
how bad it is. Something happens and you realize your life is in danger, and
then you wake up and face the threat.

We Can Change Our World

But Levy's vision is a hopeful one, since he stresses that we're all more
powerful than we realize. What's there in our collective system is some kind of
matrix of control that we unwittingly participate in. It's painfully obvious
that "the powers" of the moment use fear as part of their agenda. But in his
talk on 2012, Mayan elder Carlos Barrios said the dark side uses denial and
materialism as well. On the power that's there, he said, "Just now the dark side
is very strong, and very clear about what they want. They have their vision and
their priorities clearly held, and also their hierarchy." He goes on to say, "On
the light side everyone thinks they are the most important, that their own
understandings, or their group's understandings, are the key. There's a
diversity of cultures and opinions, so there is competition, diffusion, and no
single focus."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry - my error.
 ~`~~{@ Jane*

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness." -- Eleanor Roosevelt





________________________________
From: "rosiolady@..." <rosiolady@...>
To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 8:00:15 PM
Subject: Re: [GnosticThought] Following Yonder Star (Was: Chestnuts Roasting on
an Ope...

 
I don't understand what your problem is here, Jane, or specifically what
message(s) you are referring to. If someone on the lists comments on
Christianity, including finding fault with it In Their Opinion (you will note
the
"IMO"--In My Opinion), they are allowed to do so, and no one, including you
is compelled to read anything here that they find tiresome. You are
welcome to go take a nap.


Rosalie


In a message dated 12/9/2009 7:34:17 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jane_lucienne@ yahoo.com writes:

Thanks to a recent reading of ancient seasonal traditions including the
significance of the Winter Solstice, I totally get what the meaning of the
season is now -- no offense but Christian-bashing is getting a little
:::yawn::: I'd like to evolve spiritually, not devolve emotionally. Some of us
are beating dead horses here -- literally. WAY dead.
~`~~{@ Jane

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't understand what your problem is here, Jane, or specifically what
message(s) you are referring to.  If someone on the lists comments on
Christianity, including finding fault with it In Their Opinion (you will note 
the
"IMO"--In My Opinion), they are allowed to do so, and no one, including you
  is compelled to read anything here that they find tiresome.  You are
welcome to go take a nap.


Rosalie


In a message dated 12/9/2009 7:34:17 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jane_lucienne@... writes:

Thanks  to a recent reading of ancient seasonal traditions including the
significance  of the Winter Solstice, I totally get what the meaning of the
season is now --  no offense but Christian-bashing is getting a little
:::yawn:::   I'd like to evolve spiritually, not devolve  emotionally.  Some of
us
are beating dead horses here --  literally.  WAY dead.
~`~~{@  Jane



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"...remind me of Tibetan Buddhists who create intricate sand mandalas, just to
destroy them."
 
I definitely lack their discipline.  I understand about impermanence, but
definitely think creating something just to destroy it would be pretty
frustrating for me. 

Cindy

Cynthia G. Peacock

--- On Wed, 12/9/09, rosiolady@... <rosiolady@...> wrote:


From: rosiolady@... <rosiolady@...>
Subject: Re: [GnosticThought] music and sleep
To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 12:17 AM


 




In a message dated 12/8/2009 8:37:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
prettysombreuil@ aol.com writes:

Hi Cynthia,

I enjoyed reading your thoughts and like you, I appreciate music and sleep.

However, I think we do differ in your belief that work must be purposeful.

For me, work does not always need a purpose. I would not be filled with
resentment and rage if I was told to dig a hole and then fill it up;
actually, doing so would remind me of Tibetan Buddhists who create
intricate sand
mandalas, just to destroy them.

Jamie Santos

I agree with Cindy that I like purposeful work. I've often, on the job,
been put to work doing things which are just a "look busy" exercise in
futility, and I hated that. I don't see the Tibetan sand mandalas in that
light, though. They are more like a beautiful dance that is over when it's
over, or walking a meditation-maze.

Rosalie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Our society considers food the enemy, describing confections as sinful, etc.  I
think it's something of a death cult.  Our society reviles that which keeps us
alive.  Dreams about eating super-delicious cherries!  That's absolutely
beautiful! 

Cindy

Cynthia G. Peacock

--- On Wed, 12/9/09, rosiolady@... <rosiolady@...> wrote:


From: rosiolady@... <rosiolady@...>
Subject: Re: Hats as Neon Signs (Re: [GnosticThought] music and sleep)
To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 12:36 AM


 




In a message dated 12/8/2009 9:31:53 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jane_lucienne@ yahoo.com writes:

ip>The comedian Rita Rudner once said she loved to sleep because it's the
only
time you can be alive and unconscious simultaneously (I'm sure she wasn't
including being dead drunk or in a coma). <snip>

ROFL thanks for the comedic relief! I needed that. :-)

My dreams are so vivid, I once had the best cherry pie I'd EVER eaten in a
dream, I can still see the huge red shiny cherries and taste the filling,
not all gummed up, not sugary-sweet but tart and juicy.

I also had a sequence of about 6 or 7 dreams where Al Pacino showed up.

Well, I think your dreamlife is very entertaining too! LOL! Al Pacino!
I've never met any well-known or famous public figure in my dreams, let
alone having such an interaction. Sounds like fun! Sometimes I have
wonderful dreams of eating wonderful foods. Dream can be very entertaining, as
well as sometimes very enlightening.

Rosalie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm still trying to find all the racism the media talks about.  I live in the
south and have a biracial famiily--nothing.  I'm SO glad I don't live in
Television Land. 

Cindy

Cynthia G. Peacock

--- On Wed, 12/9/09, ANNA M WEST <annamayz@...> wrote:


From: ANNA M WEST <annamayz@...>
Subject: [GnosticThought] Waking Up in the Dream
To: "GnosticThought" <gnosticthought@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 1:14 PM


 




Anna's comments: I don't nec. believe in the "dark side." I consider that the
dark and light are all part of the Divine. But I do think that our thoughts
manifest in our realities, though I've yet to be able to change my thoughts so
as to manifest a better aspect of my reality. And I don't state these things as
absolute facts, just my beliefs of the moment.

If there is a "dark side," I think the media loves it. It keeps us focused on
the worst in life - in both the Law & Order and other programs of its ilk and
the news. I think it helps to build the crappy collective consciousness. Certain
politicians keep us scared witless as I guess they can steer us better that way.

Anyway, what do you think of this? Does it have some truth? Or is it a bunch of
stuff? It's a good read anyway, and it's not too long...

Anna in Denver


Waking Up in the Dream

By Molly Hall, About.com (Astrology) Guide

It's part of the end times mythology that the dark side will gain power. But
that the apocalypse or "unveiling" will show us what we need to know -- as a
collective -- to transcend it. Last night, I listened to artist-therapist Paul
Levy discussing this very thing on Red Ice Creations radio. It's the audio
version of his article, The War on Consciousness. His site, awaken in the dream,
is an exploration of how we're dreaming up what's all around us, even the bad
stuff. Levy's stunning insights are a must-read for anyone that wants to
understand why we're dreaming up nightmares.

Black Magic and Consciousness

Magic, as described by my teacher Starhawk, is "the changing of consciousness at
will." You might then see how the calculated shifting of public consciousness,
is a kind of dark magic. One example of the power of the dark was seen in the
days just after September 11th. The nation was in a daze, like when you are
seeing stars and need time to take in what's happened. Very quickly, the public
mind was entranced by images of a distant enemy. And even though evidence comes
out nearly every day that proves the official story is lie, it still has a hold
on the collective consciousness. That's some pretty powerful black magic.

In our own lives, if we don't look at our own darkness, we cast it off onto
others. It's called projecting the shadow, which Levy says is basically a lie.
It's also the foundation for the archetype of the Devil, and how we come to
demonize entire races of people. This reminds me of what my Mom would say when I
was struggling with depression throughout my early life. She advised me to say,
"Get Thee Behind Me, Satan!" For her, there was great fear in looking at the
shadow, and that added to the charge it had for me, too.

In looking at our own nation's shadow, we may be frightened to go there. The
unveiling is showing us that dark power has been allowed to grow, and is now
being unmasked. It's not unlike an abuse situation where you're in denial about
how bad it is. Something happens and you realize your life is in danger, and
then you wake up and face the threat.

We Can Change Our World

But Levy's vision is a hopeful one, since he stresses that we're all more
powerful than we realize. What's there in our collective system is some kind of
matrix of control that we unwittingly participate in. It's painfully obvious
that "the powers" of the moment use fear as part of their agenda. But in his
talk on 2012, Mayan elder Carlos Barrios said the dark side uses denial and
materialism as well. On the power that's there, he said, "Just now the dark side
is very strong, and very clear about what they want. They have their vision and
their priorities clearly held, and also their hierarchy." He goes on to say, "On
the light side everyone thinks they are the most important, that their own
understandings, or their group's understandings, are the key. There's a
diversity of cultures and opinions, so there is competition, diffusion, and no
single focus."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There's no Santa?

Cindy

Cynthia G. Peacock

--- On Wed, 12/9/09, Jane* <jane_lucienne@...> wrote:


From: Jane* <jane_lucienne@...>
Subject: Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire Re: [GnosticThought] Christmas in
America
To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 2:34 PM


 



Duh!  Pagan traditions!  :::smacking forehead gently::: how did I not get
that?

I dunno.  The fun went out of Christmas for me when I found out there was no
Santa.  I've been scrambling to recover the joy ever since then ;-)

The discussion about Christmas decorations and whatnot has been wonderful --
thank you.  I always had a hard time picturing an evergreen in the snow in the
Middle East where Jesus was born ... I couldn't quite figure that one out.  Can
you believe it took me until this week, reading your discussion about Christmas
Trees and pagan traditions, to get the connection?

Some people consider me smart.  ;-)  But sometimes I am SO slow...
 ~`~~{@ Jane*

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness." -- Eleanor Roosevelt

____________ _________ _________ __
From: gnostic_ken <gnostic_ken@ yahoo.com>
To: GnosticThought@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 10:22:12 AM
Subject: [GnosticThought] Christmas in America

 
I don't know much about the celebration worldwide today but here in America
Christmas is pretty much a secular holiday the way most people celebrate it. I
celebrate and enjoy Christmas even though I reject the popular Christian
mythology most people here claim to embrace.

I know other pagans, atheists and even a couple of Jews who do the same.

Ken

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gnosis is great.  Gnosis is good. 
I just put the Christmas lights up in my 'hood. 
My desk is now cheery my mood is now bright. 
I'm grateful to have this new vision of light. 

Sing it with me ... "Chestnuuuuts roasting on an open fiiiiire ...." 

One year I bought a potted palm tree and decorated it.  Of course, you can't
grow a palm tree indoors so it died eventually, but I live in Southern
California.  We don't have a lot of snow here, or sleigh bells or any of that
stuff you people have in the midwest and the north and the east ... so the
Middle Eastern nativity scene really does fit in with the Sunny Southern
California scenery ... and the 3 Kings from the Orient bearing gifts they've
traveled so far following yonder Star ;-)

STRANGE LIGHTS OVER NORWAY: This morning in arctic Norway, onlookers were
stunned when a gigantic luminous spiral formed in the northern sky. "We are used
to seeing lots of auroras here in Norway, but this was different," says Nick
Banbury of Harstad who witnessed the phenomenon on his way to work "between 7:50
and 8:00 a.m. local time." Onlooker Jan Petter Jorgensen took this photo:

For details go to www.spaceweather.com --

Thanks to a recent reading of ancient seasonal traditions including the
significance of the Winter Solstice, I totally get what the meaning of the
season is now -- no offense but Christian-bashing is getting a little
:::yawn:::   I'd like to evolve spiritually, not devolve emotionally.  Some of
us are beating dead horses here -- literally.  WAY dead.
~`~~{@ Jane*

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness." -- Eleanor Roosevelt




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- On Wed, 12/9/09, Jane* <jane_lucienne@...> wrote:
> Duh!  Pagan traditions! 
> :::smacking forehead gently::: how did I not get that?
>
> I dunno.  The fun went out of Christmas for me when I
> found out there was no Santa. 

Have you ever noticed how much Santa looks like the Celtic Horned God?

They just moved the horns to the reindeer and put a red cap on the god's head.

Ken

--- On Wed, 12/9/09, ANNA M WEST <annamayz@...> wrote:
>
> Here is a fine link about how the date of Dec. 25th was
> picked:
>
>
>
> http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_sel.htm

Hi Anna,
What they say is true, but I think that date was chosen because it was close to
Saturnalia. The people wouldn't give up Saturnalia so the Church renamed it
Christmas and moved it a few days so they could claim it wasn't really
Saturnalia anymore.

IMO.

Ken

--- On Wed, 12/9/09, Todd Settimo <todd@...> wrote:
> I lived in a Sikh family for about 10
> years. They celebrated Christmas
> with great pleasure. Trees, decorations, presents, the
> works. It was
> just another festival to them and they were always up for a
> festival, no
> matter the origin.
>
>
> Best,
> Todd

Hi Todd,
Yeah, that's the spirit. A celebration is a celebration.

Actually, except for the presents for the kids, my family's main celebration has
always been Thanksgiving. Christmas is more about the decorations and music. The
actual day is kind of an afterthought.

Ken

Dear Anna,

I agree with you 100%.  In fact you've just given me a quick way to articulate
an idea I've been unable to get across to others in 25 words or less -- thank
you!  This is it exactly. 

'Dark side' is a judgment call made using a lens perspective developed by a
body of people who have staked out their philosophical turf and are defending
it.  One (wo)man's trash is another (wo)man's treasure. 

In my experience, a study of the roots of consciousness and the raw energy
sciences has the effect of taking the emotional charge out of these labels we're
throwing around and restoring perspective to the issues at hand.  There is no
need to point fingers where there is no blame.  There is no morality in
power.  Power simply is.  The people who use their power apparently to the
detriment of others are acting out their mores.  Morality is a code developed
by a body of beings who make artificial constructs defining what they can and
cannot tolerate in their society.  The mores are boundaries to keep their
neighborhoods habitable.  The body is a perfect example.  There you have all
your organs and networks connecting all your parts.  If you were a
micro-visitor in your own body you couldn't go easily from one zone into another
without hazarding your immediate demise by some protective immune agent. 
Viruses are geniuses - they are chameleons. 

And speaking of viruses, here's an interesting allegory to consider - anyone who
has seen a nature program on chameleons has heard the reference connecting
chameleons to dragons.  I will stop here - you see - I've exceeded 25 words
without even thinking about it ...

:-)  
~`~~{@ Jane*

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness." -- Eleanor Roosevelt





________________________________
From: ANNA M WEST <annamayz@...>
To: GnosticThought <gnosticthought@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 10:14:22 AM
Subject: [GnosticThought] Waking Up in the Dream

 

Anna's comments: I don't nec. believe in the "dark side." I consider that the
dark and light are all part of the Divine. But I do think that our thoughts
manifest in our realities, though I've yet to be able to change my thoughts so
as to manifest a better aspect of my reality. And I don't state these things as
absolute facts, just my beliefs of the moment.

If there is a "dark side," I think the media loves it. It keeps us focused on
the worst in life - in both the Law & Order and other programs of its ilk and
the news. I think it helps to build the crappy collective consciousness. Certain
politicians keep us scared witless as I guess they can steer us better that way.

Anyway, what do you think of this? Does it have some truth? Or is it a bunch of
stuff? It's a good read anyway, and it's not too long...

Anna in Denver


Waking Up in the Dream

By Molly Hall, About.com (Astrology) Guide

It's part of the end times mythology that the dark side will gain power. But
that the apocalypse or "unveiling" will show us what we need to know -- as a
collective -- to transcend it. Last night, I listened to artist-therapist Paul
Levy discussing this very thing on Red Ice Creations radio. It's the audio
version of his article, The War on Consciousness. His site, awaken in the dream,
is an exploration of how we're dreaming up what's all around us, even the bad
stuff. Levy's stunning insights are a must-read for anyone that wants to
understand why we're dreaming up nightmares.

Black Magic and Consciousness

Magic, as described by my teacher Starhawk, is "the changing of consciousness at
will." You might then see how the calculated shifting of public consciousness,
is a kind of dark magic. One example of the power of the dark was seen in the
days just after September 11th. The nation was in a daze, like when you are
seeing stars and need time to take in what's happened. Very quickly, the public
mind was entranced by images of a distant enemy. And even though evidence comes
out nearly every day that proves the official story is lie, it still has a hold
on the collective consciousness. That's some pretty powerful black magic.

In our own lives, if we don't look at our own darkness, we cast it off onto
others. It's called projecting the shadow, which Levy says is basically a lie.
It's also the foundation for the archetype of the Devil, and how we come to
demonize entire races of people. This reminds me of what my Mom would say when I
was struggling with depression throughout my early life. She advised me to say,
"Get Thee Behind Me, Satan!" For her, there was great fear in looking at the
shadow, and that added to the charge it had for me, too.

In looking at our own nation's shadow, we may be frightened to go there. The
unveiling is showing us that dark power has been allowed to grow, and is now
being unmasked. It's not unlike an abuse situation where you're in denial about
how bad it is. Something happens and you realize your life is in danger, and
then you wake up and face the threat.

We Can Change Our World

But Levy's vision is a hopeful one, since he stresses that we're all more
powerful than we realize. What's there in our collective system is some kind of
matrix of control that we unwittingly participate in. It's painfully obvious
that "the powers" of the moment use fear as part of their agenda. But in his
talk on 2012, Mayan elder Carlos Barrios said the dark side uses denial and
materialism as well. On the power that's there, he said, "Just now the dark side
is very strong, and very clear about what they want. They have their vision and
their priorities clearly held, and also their hierarchy." He goes on to say, "On
the light side everyone thinks they are the most important, that their own
understandings, or their group's understandings, are the key. There's a
diversity of cultures and opinions, so there is competition, diffusion, and no
single focus."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OKAY!!  Common sense prevails...at least once :-)!

Rosalie


In a message dated 12/9/2009 9:36:35 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
todd@... writes:

Update:  After overwhelming community outcry, the principal has reversed
her  decision and has brought the tree  back.

Best,
Todd




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Duh!  Pagan traditions!  :::smacking forehead gently::: how did I not get
that?

I dunno.  The fun went out of Christmas for me when I found out there was no
Santa.  I've been scrambling to recover the joy ever since then ;-)

The discussion about Christmas decorations and whatnot has been wonderful --
thank you.  I always had a hard time picturing an evergreen in the snow in the
Middle East where Jesus was born ... I couldn't quite figure that one out.  Can
you believe it took me until this week, reading your discussion about Christmas
Trees and pagan traditions, to get the connection?

Some people consider me smart.  ;-)  But sometimes I am SO slow...
 ~`~~{@ Jane*

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness." -- Eleanor Roosevelt





________________________________
From: gnostic_ken <gnostic_ken@...>
To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 10:22:12 AM
Subject: [GnosticThought] Christmas in America

 
I don't know much about the celebration worldwide today but here in America
Christmas is pretty much a secular holiday the way most people celebrate it. I
celebrate and enjoy Christmas even though I reject the popular Christian
mythology most people here claim to embrace.

I know other pagans, atheists and even a couple of Jews who do the same.

Ken







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here is a fine link about how the date of Dec. 25th was picked:



http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_sel.htm


I also have an article on the similarities between Krishna and Jesus. Of course
it came from the Hare Krishna folks. Still, there are a lot of similarities.



To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
From: gnostic_ken@...
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 18:22:12 +0000
Subject: [GnosticThought] Christmas in America





I don't know much about the celebration worldwide today but here in America
Christmas is pretty much a secular holiday the way most people celebrate it. I
celebrate and enjoy Christmas even though I reject the popular Christian
mythology most people here claim to embrace.

I know other pagans, atheists and even a couple of Jews who do the same.

Ken






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I lived in a Sikh family for about 10 years. They celebrated Christmas
with great pleasure. Trees, decorations, presents, the works. It was
just another festival to them and they were always up for a festival, no
matter the origin.


Best,
Todd

http://www.bagendpress.com
http://www.amazon.com

The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not
expect to sit.
--Nelson Henderson


gnostic_ken wrote:
>
> I don't know much about the celebration worldwide today but here in
> America Christmas is pretty much a secular holiday the way most people
> celebrate it. I celebrate and enjoy Christmas even though I reject the
> popular Christian mythology most people here claim to embrace.
>
> I know other pagans, atheists and even a couple of Jews who do the same.
>
> Ken
>
>

I don't know much about the celebration worldwide today but here in America
Christmas is pretty much a secular holiday the way most people celebrate it. I
celebrate and enjoy Christmas even though I reject the popular Christian
mythology most people here claim to embrace.

I know other pagans, atheists and even a couple of Jews who do the same.

Ken

Anna's comments: I don't nec. believe in the "dark side." I consider that the
dark and light are all part of the Divine. But I do think that our thoughts
manifest in our realities, though I've yet to be able to change my thoughts so
as to manifest a better aspect of my reality.  And I don't state these things as
absolute facts, just my beliefs of the moment.

If there is a "dark side," I think the media loves it. It keeps us focused on
the worst in life - in both the Law & Order and other programs of its ilk and
the news. I think it helps to build the crappy collective consciousness. Certain
politicians keep us scared witless as I guess they can steer us better that way.

Anyway, what do you think of this? Does it have some truth? Or is it a bunch of
stuff? It's a good read anyway, and it's not too long...

Anna in Denver


Waking Up in the Dream

By Molly Hall, About.com (Astrology) Guide

It's part of the end times mythology that the dark side will gain power. But
that the apocalypse or "unveiling" will show us what we need to know -- as a
collective -- to transcend it. Last night, I listened to artist-therapist Paul
Levy discussing this very thing on Red Ice Creations radio. It's the audio
version of his article, The War on Consciousness. His site, awaken in the dream,
is an exploration of how we're dreaming up what's all around us, even the bad
stuff. Levy's stunning insights are a must-read for anyone that wants to
understand why we're dreaming up nightmares.

Black Magic and Consciousness

Magic, as described by my teacher Starhawk, is "the changing of consciousness at
will." You might then see how the calculated shifting of public consciousness,
is a kind of dark magic. One example of the power of the dark was seen in the
days just after September 11th. The nation was in a daze, like when you are
seeing stars and need time to take in what's happened. Very quickly, the public
mind was entranced by images of a distant enemy. And even though evidence comes
out nearly every day that proves the official story is lie, it still has a hold
on the collective consciousness. That's some pretty powerful black magic.

In our own lives, if we don't look at our own darkness, we cast it off onto
others. It's called projecting the shadow, which Levy says is basically a lie.
It's also the foundation for the archetype of the Devil, and how we come to
demonize entire races of people. This reminds me of what my Mom would say when I
was struggling with depression throughout my early life. She advised me to say,
"Get Thee Behind Me, Satan!" For her, there was great fear in looking at the
shadow, and that added to the charge it had for me, too.

In looking at our own nation's shadow, we may be frightened to go there. The
unveiling is showing us that dark power has been allowed to grow, and is now
being unmasked. It's not unlike an abuse situation where you're in denial about
how bad it is. Something happens and you realize your life is in danger, and
then you wake up and face the threat.

We Can Change Our World

But Levy's vision is a hopeful one, since he stresses that we're all more
powerful than we realize. What's there in our collective system is some kind of
matrix of control that we unwittingly participate in. It's painfully obvious
that "the powers" of the moment use fear as part of their agenda. But in his
talk on 2012, Mayan elder Carlos Barrios said the dark side uses denial and
materialism as well. On the power that's there, he said, "Just now the dark side
is very strong, and very clear about what they want. They have their vision and
their priorities clearly held, and also their hierarchy." He goes on to say, "On
the light side everyone thinks they are the most important, that their own
understandings, or their group's understandings, are the key. There's a
diversity of cultures and opinions, so there is competition, diffusion, and no
single focus."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Update: After overwhelming community outcry, the principal has reversed
her decision and has brought the tree back.

Best,
Todd

http://www.bagendpress.com
http://www.amazon.com

The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not
expect to sit.
--Nelson Henderson


Todd Settimo wrote:
> This *would* be funny except here in my home town of Ashland, Oregon,
> the local elementary school took down what was billed as a 'giving
> tree'; a traditional Christmas tree that was being used to gather gifts
> for less fortunate members of the community. They took it down because
> some politically correct ninnies convinced the principle that the tree
> promoted Christian values.
>
> Yes, you read that right. A pagan symbol is suddenly labeled a
> 'Christian symbol'.
>
> What idiots.
>
> IMO.
>
> Best,
> Todd
>
> http://www.bagendpress.com
> http://www.amazon.com
>
> The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not
> expect to sit.
> --Nelson Henderson
>
>
> Pilar Morales wrote:
>
>> When in Rome? Rosalie, I thought you might enjoy this
>> Pilar
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>
>> * **Company Memo*
>>
>> FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
>>
>> TO: All Employees
>>
>> DATE: October 1, 2009
>>
>> RE: Gala Christmas Party
>>
>> I'm happy to inform you that the company Christmas Party will take
>> place on
>> December 23rd, starting at noon in the private function room at the Grill
>> House. There will be a cash bar and plenty of drinks! We'll have a small
>> band playing traditional carols... feel free to sing along. And don't be
>> surprised if our CEO shows up dressed as Santa Claus! A Christmas tree
>> will
>> be lit at 1:00 PM. Exchanges of gifts among employees can be done at that
>> time; however, no gift should be over $10.00 to make the giving of gifts
>> easy for everyone's pockets. This gathering is only for employees!
>>
>> Our CEO will make a special announcement at that time!
>>
>> Merry Christmas to you and your family,
>>
>> Patty
>> ------------------------------
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *Company Memo*
>>
>> FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
>>
>> TO: All Employees
>>
>> DATE: October 2, 2009
>>
>> RE: Gala Holiday Party
>>
>> In no way was yesterday's memo intended to exclude our Jewish
>> employees. We
>> recognize that Hanukkah is an important holiday, which often coincides
>> with
>> Christmas, though unfortunately not this year. However, from now on, we're
>> calling it our "Holiday Party." The same policy applies to any other
>> employees who are not Christians and to those still celebrating
>> Reconciliation Day. There will be no Christmas tree and no Christmas
>> carols
>> will be sung. We will have other types of music for your enjoyment.
>>
>> Happy now?
>>
>> Happy Holidays to you and your family,
>>
>> Patty
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *Company Memo*
>>
>> FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
>>
>> TO: All Employees
>>
>> DATE: October 3, 2009
>>
>> RE: Holiday Party
>>
>> Regarding the note I received from a member of Alcoholics Anonymous
>> requesting a non-drinking table, you didn't sign your name. I'm happy to
>> accommodate this request, but if I put a sign on a table that reads, "AA
>> Only", you wouldn't be anonymous anymore. How am I supposed to handle
>> this?
>>
>> Somebody?
>>
>> And sorry, but forget about the gift exchange, no gifts are allowed since
>> the union members feel that $10.00 is too much money and the executives
>> believe $10.00 is a little chintzy.
>>
>> REMEMBER: NO GIFTS EXCHANGE WILL BE ALLOWED.
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *Company Memo*
>>
>> FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
>>
>> To: All Employees
>>
>> DATE: October 4, 2009
>>
>> RE: Generic Holiday Party
>>
>> What a diverse group we are! I had no idea that December 20th begins the
>> Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which forbids eating and drinking during
>> daylight hours. There goes the party! Seriously, we can appreciate how a
>> luncheon at this time of year does not accommodate our Muslim employees'
>> beliefs. Perhaps the Grill House can hold off on serving your meal until
>> the end of the party or else package everything for you to take it home in
>> little foil doggy baggy. Will that work?
>>
>> Meanwhile, I've arranged for members of Weight Watchers to sit
>> farthest from
>> the dessert buffet, and pregnant women will get the table closest to the
>> restrooms.
>>
>> Gays are allowed to sit with each other. Lesbians do not have to sit with
>> Gay men, each group will have their own table. Yes, there will be flower
>> arrangement for the Gay men's table.
>>
>> To the person asking permission to cross dress, the Grill House asks
>> that no
>> cross-dressing be allowed, apparently because of concerns about
>> confusion in
>> the restrooms. Sorry.
>>
>> We will have booster seats for short people.
>>
>> Low-fat food will be available for those on a diet.
>>
>> I am sorry to report that we cannot control the amount of salt used in the
>> food. The Grill House suggests that people with high blood pressure
>> taste a
>> bite first.
>>
>> There will be fresh "low sugar" fruits as dessert for diabetics, but the
>> restaurant cannot supply "no sugar" desserts. Sorry!
>>
>> Did I miss anything?!?!?
>>
>> Patty
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *Company Memo*
>>
>> FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
>>
>> TO: All F*%^ing Employees
>>
>> DATE: October 5, 2009
>>
>> RE: The F*%^ing Holiday Party
>>
>> I've had it with you vegetarian pricks!!! We're going to keep this
>> party at
>> the Grill House whether you like it or not, so you can sit quietly at the
>> table furthest from the "grill of death," as you so quaintly put it, and
>> you'll get your f*%^ing salad bar, including organic tomatoes. But you
>> know, tomatoes have feelings, too. They scream when you slice them. I've
>> heard them scream. I'm hearing them scream right NOW!
>>
>> The rest of you f*%^ing wierdos can kiss my *ss. I hope you all have a
>> rotten holiday!
>>
>> Drive drunk and die,
>>
>> The B*tch from H*ll!!!
>> ------------------------------
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *Company Memo*
>>
>> FROM: Joan Bishop, Acting Human Resources Director
>>
>> DATE: October 6, 2009
>>
>> RE: Patty Lewis and Holiday Party
>>
>> I'm sure I speak for all of us in wishing Patty Lewis a speedy
>> recovery and
>> I'll continue to forward your cards to her.
>>
>> In the meantime, management has decided to cancel our Holiday Party
>> and give
>> everyone the afternoon of the 23rd off with full pay.
>>
>> Happy Holidays!
>>
>> Joan
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> No God will send you to Hell for what you do or don't do.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list send a message to: 
GnosticThought-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 12/8/2009 9:31:53 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jane_lucienne@... writes:

ip>The comedian Rita Rudner once said she loved to sleep because  it's the
only
time you can be alive and unconscious simultaneously (I'm  sure she wasn't
including being dead drunk or in a  coma). <snip>

ROFL thanks for the comedic relief!  I  needed that.  :-)

My dreams are so vivid, I once had the best  cherry pie I'd EVER eaten in a
dream, I can still see the huge red shiny  cherries and taste the filling,
not all gummed up, not sugary-sweet but tart  and juicy.

I also had a sequence of about 6 or 7 dreams where Al Pacino  showed up.


Well, I think your dreamlife is very entertaining too!  LOL!  Al  Pacino!
I've never met any well-known or famous public figure in my  dreams, let
alone having such an interaction.  Sounds like fun!   Sometimes I have
wonderful dreams of eating wonderful foods.  Dream can be  very entertaining, as
well as sometimes very enlightening.

Rosalie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<snip>The comedian Rita Rudner once said she loved to sleep because it's the
only
time you can be alive and unconscious simultaneously (I'm sure she wasn't
including being dead drunk or in a coma). <snip>

ROFL thanks for the comedic relief!  I needed that.  :-)

My dreams are so vivid, I once had the best cherry pie I'd EVER eaten in a
dream, I can still see the huge red shiny cherries and taste the filling, not
all gummed up, not sugary-sweet but tart and juicy.

I also had a sequence of about 6 or 7 dreams where Al Pacino showed up.  In one
of them I bent over and started slapping the ground to try to decide if I was
dreaming.  I slapped the pavement so hard I hurt my damn hand (can I say that in
a discussion group?).  Anyway, I kept reminding Al he had an LTR and kids at
home but he kept showing up until I gave up and said, okay, I give up, I'm all
yours baby.  I'm looking forward to your next visit and I'll go give your kids'
school a flyby to make sure it's a good one.  He immediately stopped visiting
me.  Every now and again I see him in a dream, we're usually in an auditorium or
some other public setting where he's with Beverly and he's either got his fake
beard and mustache on or he's slid down into the chair so low I just know he's
avoiding me.  Once I accosted him from the front seat of a taxi cab like a
common, ordinary FAN as though I thought he wouldn't recognize me.  He didn't
  recognize me so maybe that was my way of astral-heckling him back -- the movie
star's worst nightmare -- a gushing fan blurting out fan-cliches from the front
seat of a New York taxi cab -- in slow traffic.

Coward ;-) 

I love sleep -- unfortunately I still have a conscience and a moral code when
I'm out of body.

Oh well.
 ~`~~{@ Jane*

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness." -- Eleanor Roosevelt




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 12/8/2009 8:37:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
prettysombreuil@... writes:

Hi  Cynthia,

I enjoyed reading your thoughts and like you, I appreciate  music and sleep.

However, I think we do differ in your belief that work  must be purposeful.

For me, work does not always need a  purpose.   I would not be filled with
resentment and rage if I  was told to dig a hole and then fill it up;
actually, doing so would  remind me of Tibetan Buddhists who create
intricate sand
mandalas, just to  destroy them.

Jamie Santos



I agree with Cindy that I like purposeful work.  I've often, on the  job,
been put to work doing things which are just a "look busy" exercise in
futility, and I hated that.  I don't see the Tibetan sand mandalas in that
light, though.  They are more like a beautiful dance that is over when it's
over, or walking a meditation-maze.

Rosalie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 12/8/2009 4:12:17 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jane_lucienne@... writes:

Dear  Cynthia,

Absolutely.  Music and sleep, numbers 1 and 2 on my  list of what energizes
and sustains me.

I would like to add an  exclamation point to your offering on dissing the
body.  I don't know  where people get their ideas.  That having been said, we
are  living in duality, so I suppose if some people want to see parts of
themselves  in a good-bad context and act out the "bad" mode of their duality
natures by  punishing their body, that is their bag, but it's not mine :-)
and thank  God/dess they are punishing themselves instead of someone else.

I adore hats.  Throughout history, hats have adorned the heads of  people
to carry a message to others, of their function as royalty or  speciality of
some sort -- priestly adornment, membership in an exclusive club  (like a
professional baseball team or the fans of that team).  No, hats  are totally
important.

Blessings,
~`~~{@  Jane*

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness." --  Eleanor
Roosevelt


Was it Eleanor Roosevelt who said that?!  It sounds scriptural.   Oh well,
whoever said it really had the right idea, IMO!

Music and sleep are my numbers 1 and 2 also, but I also find meditation
very helpful to me while at the same time I'm not as regular about it as I'd
like to be.

Music--It connects directly to the emotional and intuitive sphere, I
believe, bypassing our ever-questioning and analyzing minds.  It can evoke
memories better than anything else.  It can dramatically help to create and
sustain a mood--it's quite magical!

I was looking for what I thought was a quote from Shakespeare that went
something like:  Sleep, that knits up the raveled sleeve of care---but
couldn't find it.  To me, sleep is like taking a vacation.

I did fine this quote--um boy!  It's a good one!!

"There is nothing so entirely desirable in all the  world as a few hours'
oblivion."

ANNE REEVE ALDRICH, "An Evening With  Callender"



The comedian Rita Rudner once said she loved to sleep because it's the only
  time you can be alive and unconscious simultaneously (I'm sure she  wasn't
including being dead drunk or in a coma).  Yes, I think sleep  is my number
one!

Rosalie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 12/8/2009 3:08:56 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
annamayz@... writes:

Oh well,  I got to hold forth about fire needing spaces btn the firewood.
Likely I'm the  only one interested in that.



Anna



No, I never thought of that and I think it's interesting.  It sounds  true.

Rosalie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 12/8/2009 2:51:45 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
todd@... writes:

Hi  Anna,

Gonna interject here. If you read Cindy's original post, there  was
plenty of "spaces between paragraphs." I would go so far as to say,  from
my viewpoint, it was well written. However, Rick's quote of her post  ran
all the paragraphs together.

Perhaps that's what you're  reacting to? The quote of the post, rather
than the actual  post?

Best,
Todd



Yes, I happen to know that Anna is new to email lists and it sure can be
confusing at first.  We all have different computer systems and things can
get really messed up in translation!  One of Cindy's posts that I got came
through with something like "A^"s sprinkled throughout it.  Don't know what
caused that.  We just do our best, even when it's hard to read  sometimes.

Sometimes people will quote an entire message and then interject their
comments within it and when they send it out (I've had this happen to me),
there  are blue lines indicating which part is the original message.  When it
comes back through to the list (through Yahoogroups), that blue line is
missing  and it's impossible to tell which is the original message and which is
the  answer.  Oh well...

Rosalie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 12/8/2009 11:34:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
JWMeritt@... writes:

It is my  understanding that they were trying to supress the pagan
celebration.


James W. Meritt
CISSP, CISA, NSA IAM,  PMP


I agree that at the time Christianity became a social and political power
(it became all about power), this was the case.

I'm thinking about present day, a thousand-plus years later.  At this
time, in our multi-cultural society, I don't know if Christians are all that
concerned about pagan celebrations.  They just like to say they are their
own, co-opt them from the pagans, as in saying a "Christmas Tree" is
Christian.  Well I suppose it may be so, if you call it a "Christmas"  tree. 
Maybe a
Yule Tree or something like that would be a more accurate  name for it.

Rosalie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 12/8/09 10:45:50 AM, CynthiaPeacock@... writes:


> Purposeful work clears the mind.  I think purposefulness is the key.  If
> someone told me to dig a hole and fill it up again, I'd probably find
> myself full of resentment and rage. 
>

**************************************

Hi Cynthia,

I enjoyed reading your thoughts and like you, I appreciate music and sleep.

However, I think we do differ in your belief that work must be purposeful.
  For me, work does not always need a purpose.   I would not be filled with
resentment and rage if I was told to dig a hole and then fill it up;
actually, doing so would remind me of Tibetan Buddhists who create intricate
sand
mandalas, just to destroy them.

Jamie Santos


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 12/8/09 2:24:18 PM, townley7@... writes:


> Such... is what gnosis is really for;
> morphing-mind, zapping traits we abhor,
> rassling "Me-first"-mindset out-the-door.
>

*******************************

<smile> I love your poems, Dick.   Thank you so much.

[I'm a poet,
I know it,
Hope I don't blow it."
-- Bob Dylan's 115th Dream]

Jamie Santos


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 02:35 PM 12/8/2009 -0800, Cindy wrote:


>When I read that back I sound kinda' perfect, huh?
<snip>


Nope,
such not the way it read at all.

More as person who is on-the-ball,
~well on way~ to gnowing mind-of-all*.


dick