Per a review I found light output of the 3AA Mini Maglight is
approximately 60 lumens.  This is considerably more than the figures
I have seen for comparably priced bike headlights.

Rich Wood


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
<astronut1001@...> wrote:
>
> For those who only occasionally need a bike headlight
> Batteryjunction.com lists Twofish flashlight to bike handlebar
> adapter/holders at very reasonable prices currently, about half
off
> claimed MSRP at under $8 for either version.  One web site I found
> wanted $72 for the same thing, a total ripoff.  Two versions are
> listed.  One is designed for AA flashlights and the other for ones
> that take C size cells per the batteryjunction web site.
>
> I just received the 3AA LED Mini Maglite and it is very bright for
> it's price.  I found it for under $20 on Amazon with batteries and
a
> carrying holster.  Puts out lots of light compared to anything I
> have seen in it's price range and the beam is adjustable.  I will
> give it a try on  a bike once I receive the Twofish mount to hold
> it.  I would estimate output to be in the 80 lumens range, maybe a
> bit more.
>
> Beam focusing does not put a central hole in the light pattern at
> reasonable focus adjustments as the Incandescent Maglites and mini
> maglites do.  It uses a LED specific reflector that is IMO much
> better than the reflectors on regular Maglites and Mini Maglites.
>
> Remember that LED lights should have a long life and are not
subject
> to lamp failure from vibration or similar causes as are
incandescent
> lamps.  Solid state devices such as LEDs typically fail very
quickly
> or last for thousands of hours.
>

Twofish makes a number of different rubber and velcro strap
assemblies for temporarily attaching items to a bike frame or
handlebar.  These are available either with the frame mount and
accessory holder in line with one another or at right angles to one
another.

The right angle ones are good for mounting a small flashlight to the
handlebars or a U lock to the bars and stem.

The inline versions are intended as pump mounts or can be used to
mount a u lock, or other item, to the frame.

They also have versions which include a water bottle cage for
mounting an additional water bottle, bottle type headlight battery
or other item to frames which do not have bottle holder mounting
points or have only one.

Relatively inexpensive and useful for many bike riders I would think.

http://twofish.biz/bike.html

Rich Wood

The Civia Hyland Rohloff bike should be here Tuesday by current best
estimate.  Looking forward to taking delivery of it.

BTW per published specifications the Rohloff hub weighs about 200
grams less than the SRAM 9 speed disc brake or freewheel hub.  The
SRAM drum brake or coaster brake equipped hubs are even heavier yet.

Rich Wood


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
<astronut1001@...> wrote:
>
> Well I just ordered a Civia Hyland Rohloff bike today so I should
soon
> be able to gain some familiarity with the Rohloff 14 speed gear hub
> unit.
>

Picked up the Civia Hyland Rohloff bike Monday.

First impressions:

Well made and equipped.  Also expensive.  Overkill in some cases as
for instance it has circular plate type chain guards or guides on
BOTH sides of the chain ring as well as a full length upper run
chain guard.  The chain is certainly not going to come off even if
adjusted way too loose.

Fenders are paint matched aluminum with lots of wrap.  They should
be very effective.

The rack is light but heavy duty.  Rated for 25 Kg or 55 pounds
according to the manual.  It sits very close to the fender and rear
wheel so weight carried is as low as possible.

Components are excellent quality.  Stem and seatpost are Thomson.
The saddle is a Fizik Aliante.  The fork is full carbon fiber.
Brakes, crank set and generator hub are Shimano Alfine.  The Alfine
parts are claimed to be Ultegra level quality for
commuter/city/geared hub type bikes, Shimano's best for this
category of bikes.

Light output of the Shimano Hub generator headlight is minimal.  I
may upgrade the headlight to one of the German LED ones which
reportedly have about 4x the light output, 50 to 60 Lumens.  I have
installed a CygoLite mount too for when I want reallly bright
battery operated lighting.

The Rohloff hub appears smaller and the SRAM 9 speed on my Swobo.
Per factory specs it is also lighter.  Both are similar spec as they
are freewheel hubs with disc brake rotors installed.  Operation is
smooth and it is quiet in gears 8 through 14.  You can hear the
internal gears whirring away in the lower gears.  Even new however
it feels smoother and more precision than any other geared hub I
have ridden.  For the price it should!

An item to get used to is shifter rotation is opposite that of the
SRAM unit.  The shifter is rotated clockwise for higher gears; ie
the top is rotated away from the rider.  The SRAM shifter is rotated
towards the rider for higher gear selection.

Rich Wood


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
<astronut1001@...> wrote:
>
> The Civia Hyland Rohloff bike should be here Tuesday by current
best
> estimate.  Looking forward to taking delivery of it.
>
> BTW per published specifications the Rohloff hub weighs about 200
> grams less than the SRAM 9 speed disc brake or freewheel hub.  The
> SRAM drum brake or coaster brake equipped hubs are even heavier
yet.
>
> Rich Wood
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> <astronut1001@> wrote:
> >
> > Well I just ordered a Civia Hyland Rohloff bike today so I
should
> soon
> > be able to gain some familiarity with the Rohloff 14 speed gear
hub
> > unit.
> >
>

If i had my sturmey archer in 3rd gear what gear or ratio would my
sturmey archer be if compared to a derailleur system?
And would a sturmey archer 3 speed AM hub installed on a road bike vs
a the same type of road bike with a 24 speed derailleur system who
would win on a flat stretch of road with the same rider?
(I'm talking about gear ratio advantage)

Brandon

Brandon;

The Sturmey Archer 3 speed has ratios of about .75 in first, 1.0 in
second and 1.33 in third.  Overall range from low to high is 177%.
This is for the standard AW version.  Over their 100+ years Sturmey
Archer made many 3 speed hub varuations with various internal ratios.

Overall drive ratio in each gear is still determined by chainring and
sprocket sizes and can be varied over a wide range.  Generally
speaking three speed hub gearing is chosen to give a high gear of 80"
to 85" in third or high gear.  This gives a low of around 45" which is
low enough to allow moderate to medium hill climbing, depending on the
rider's condition.

Current derailleur systems have ranges of about 250% to 300% for a two
chain ring road system and up to approximately 525%, and an extreme of
600%, for a 3 chain ring wide ratio mountain bike derailleur system.

The high gear on these systems is commonly chosen to be in the 100" to
120" range.  Thus for the same pedalling cadence the derailleur system
in high gear will provide greater speed.

One reason for the popularity of the newer 7, 8, 9 and 14 speed gear
hub systems is the fact that they have total gear ranges comparable to
many derailleur systems.  The Shimano and Sturmey Archer 8 speeds are
in the 300% overall ratio range while the 9 speed SRAM hub has a 340%
range and the 14 speed Rohloff has a range of 526%.  These are much
more competitive with derailleur systems.  They have smalller steps
between gears than the 3 speed Sturmey Archer and greater overall gear
ranges.

These units allow a lower low for easily climbing steeper hills while
also allowing a higher high for greater speed on the flat and/or when
pedalling down hill or with a tailwind.

All 3 speed gear hubs currently made have similar ratios.  All also
are basically derived from the original Sturmey Archer 3 speed unit
introduced in 1902.  It was state of the art then but there has been
major progress in both gear hubs and derailleurs since.  By modern
standards the 3 speed is considered to be good for reasonably flat
terrain riding unless the rider is in excellent condition.  From an
ergonomics standpoint the range is considered quite marginal and the
jumps between ratios are too great.

Rich Wood


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
<rogersbrandon96@...> wrote:
>
> If i had my sturmey archer in 3rd gear what gear or ratio would my
> sturmey archer be if compared to a derailleur system?
> And would a sturmey archer 3 speed AM hub installed on a road bike vs
> a the same type of road bike with a 24 speed derailleur system who
> would win on a flat stretch of road with the same rider?
> (I'm talking about gear ratio advantage)
>
> Brandon
>

Brandon;

I would note for comparison purposes on gearing that my Rohloff 14
speed hub Civia Highland has a low gear of 21" and a high of 110".
My Swobo Dixon with 9 speed SRAM hub has a low of 27" and a high of
about 94".  Both are as delivered figures and have not been modified
by changing chain rings or sprockets.

Too high a high gear is rough on the knees.  Use of a high gear
higher than 100", except for downhill or tailwind use, should  be
confined to riders in excellent condition with good knees.  Spinning
a lower gear at higher cadence is much easier on the joints and leg
muscles than straining in a higher gear.

If you would like a discussion of the meaning of bicycle gear inches
just say so.  It is an antiquated system which IMO should be
replaced but many American cyclists are used to it, and so can
relate to it.  Europeans use a different system which seems to me to
be more logical.

Rich Wood


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
<astronut1001@...> wrote:
>
> Brandon;
>
> The Sturmey Archer 3 speed has ratios of about .75 in first, 1.0
in
> second and 1.33 in third.  Overall range from low to high is
177%.
> This is for the standard AW version.  Over their 100+ years
Sturmey
> Archer made many 3 speed hub varuations with various internal
ratios.
>
> Overall drive ratio in each gear is still determined by chainring
and
> sprocket sizes and can be varied over a wide range.  Generally
> speaking three speed hub gearing is chosen to give a high gear of
80"
> to 85" in third or high gear.  This gives a low of around 45"
which is
> low enough to allow moderate to medium hill climbing, depending on
the
> rider's condition.
>
> Current derailleur systems have ranges of about 250% to 300% for a
two
> chain ring road system and up to approximately 525%, and an
extreme of
> 600%, for a 3 chain ring wide ratio mountain bike derailleur
system.
>
> The high gear on these systems is commonly chosen to be in the
100" to
> 120" range.  Thus for the same pedalling cadence the derailleur
system
> in high gear will provide greater speed.
>
> One reason for the popularity of the newer 7, 8, 9 and 14 speed
gear
> hub systems is the fact that they have total gear ranges
comparable to
> many derailleur systems.  The Shimano and Sturmey Archer 8 speeds
are
> in the 300% overall ratio range while the 9 speed SRAM hub has a
340%
> range and the 14 speed Rohloff has a range of 526%.  These are
much
> more competitive with derailleur systems.  They have smalller
steps
> between gears than the 3 speed Sturmey Archer and greater overall
gear
> ranges.
>
> These units allow a lower low for easily climbing steeper hills
while
> also allowing a higher high for greater speed on the flat and/or
when
> pedalling down hill or with a tailwind.
>
> All 3 speed gear hubs currently made have similar ratios.  All
also
> are basically derived from the original Sturmey Archer 3 speed
unit
> introduced in 1902.  It was state of the art then but there has
been
> major progress in both gear hubs and derailleurs since.  By modern
> standards the 3 speed is considered to be good for reasonably flat
> terrain riding unless the rider is in excellent condition.  From
an
> ergonomics standpoint the range is considered quite marginal and
the
> jumps between ratios are too great.
>
> Rich Wood
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> >
> > If i had my sturmey archer in 3rd gear what gear or ratio would
my
> > sturmey archer be if compared to a derailleur system?
> > And would a sturmey archer 3 speed AM hub installed on a road
bike vs
> > a the same type of road bike with a 24 speed derailleur system
who
> > would win on a flat stretch of road with the same rider?
> > (I'm talking about gear ratio advantage)
> >
> > Brandon
> >
>

In America and Britain bicycle gearing figures are directly related to
the old high wheeler bicycles of the 1880 time period.

If you see a gear inches listed as 50" this is how far a 50" diameter
high wheeler front wheel would move in one revolution of the pedals,
which were directly attached to the front wheel spindle.  The actual
distance moved forward would be the listed gear inches X Pi.  For a
50" gear then the actual forward movement would be 50 X Pi or 157".
For a 100" gear the figure would be 314".

This is IMO a antiquated system as it is not at all intuitive and
unless you are an experienced bicyclist with some familiarity with the
concept then you cannot relate the figures to actual riding experience.

A approximately 20" low is the common low for a 24 through 30 speed
derailleur mountain bike or a loaded touring bike set up for touring
in mountainous terrain.

A 110" or so high is in the range used by a road racer, downhill racer
or quite athletic light sports bike rider for use in good conditions.
For specialized races such as time trials, or for someone who loves to
pedal as fast as possible downhill, the top gear might be closer to
125" but the rider risks knee problems if used inappropriately.

In Europe outside England, and in most of the rest of the world,
bicycle gearing is referred to as "Development" and is listed in
meters.  It is the amount of forward movement the bike achieves in one
turn of the crank for the selected gear.

An close approximation translation between the two systems is as
follows:

12.5 gear inches is 1 meter Development.
20 gear inches is 1.6 meters Development.
25 gear inches is 2 meters Development.
50 gear inches is 4 meters Development.
100 gear inches is 8 meters Development.

To me this is a more logical system.  I see signs that it is gradually
being adopted here too as I have recently seen some American bicycle
makers starting to use it.

Rich Wood

Brandon;

Here is a link to a article about the Sturmey Archer AM three speed
hub which discusses it's ratios and gearing.  I found it after a
minimal Google search.

http://www.geocities.com/cyqlist/saam.html

It appears that this is a close ratio hub so the gearing range
provided is narrower than with the much more common AW hub.

Rich Wood


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
<astronut1001@...> wrote:
>
> Brandon;
>
> I would note for comparison purposes on gearing that my Rohloff 14
> speed hub Civia Highland has a low gear of 21" and a high of
110".
> My Swobo Dixon with 9 speed SRAM hub has a low of 27" and a high
of
> about 94".  Both are as delivered figures and have not been
modified
> by changing chain rings or sprockets.
>
> Too high a high gear is rough on the knees.  Use of a high gear
> higher than 100", except for downhill or tailwind use, should  be
> confined to riders in excellent condition with good knees.
Spinning
> a lower gear at higher cadence is much easier on the joints and
leg
> muscles than straining in a higher gear.
>
> If you would like a discussion of the meaning of bicycle gear
inches
> just say so.  It is an antiquated system which IMO should be
> replaced but many American cyclists are used to it, and so can
> relate to it.  Europeans use a different system which seems to me
to
> be more logical.
>
> Rich Wood
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> <astronut1001@> wrote:
> >
> > Brandon;
> >
> > The Sturmey Archer 3 speed has ratios of about .75 in first, 1.0
> in
> > second and 1.33 in third.  Overall range from low to high is
> 177%.
> > This is for the standard AW version.  Over their 100+ years
> Sturmey
> > Archer made many 3 speed hub varuations with various internal
> ratios.
> >
> > Overall drive ratio in each gear is still determined by
chainring
> and
> > sprocket sizes and can be varied over a wide range.  Generally
> > speaking three speed hub gearing is chosen to give a high gear
of
> 80"
> > to 85" in third or high gear.  This gives a low of around 45"
> which is
> > low enough to allow moderate to medium hill climbing, depending
on
> the
> > rider's condition.
> >
> > Current derailleur systems have ranges of about 250% to 300% for
a
> two
> > chain ring road system and up to approximately 525%, and an
> extreme of
> > 600%, for a 3 chain ring wide ratio mountain bike derailleur
> system.
> >
> > The high gear on these systems is commonly chosen to be in the
> 100" to
> > 120" range.  Thus for the same pedalling cadence the derailleur
> system
> > in high gear will provide greater speed.
> >
> > One reason for the popularity of the newer 7, 8, 9 and 14 speed
> gear
> > hub systems is the fact that they have total gear ranges
> comparable to
> > many derailleur systems.  The Shimano and Sturmey Archer 8
speeds
> are
> > in the 300% overall ratio range while the 9 speed SRAM hub has a
> 340%
> > range and the 14 speed Rohloff has a range of 526%.  These are
> much
> > more competitive with derailleur systems.  They have smalller
> steps
> > between gears than the 3 speed Sturmey Archer and greater
overall
> gear
> > ranges.
> >
> > These units allow a lower low for easily climbing steeper hills
> while
> > also allowing a higher high for greater speed on the flat and/or
> when
> > pedalling down hill or with a tailwind.
> >
> > All 3 speed gear hubs currently made have similar ratios.  All
> also
> > are basically derived from the original Sturmey Archer 3 speed
> unit
> > introduced in 1902.  It was state of the art then but there has
> been
> > major progress in both gear hubs and derailleurs since.  By
modern
> > standards the 3 speed is considered to be good for reasonably
flat
> > terrain riding unless the rider is in excellent condition.  From
> an
> > ergonomics standpoint the range is considered quite marginal and
> the
> > jumps between ratios are too great.
> >
> > Rich Wood
> >
> >
> > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> > >
> > > If i had my sturmey archer in 3rd gear what gear or ratio
would
> my
> > > sturmey archer be if compared to a derailleur system?
> > > And would a sturmey archer 3 speed AM hub installed on a road
> bike vs
> > > a the same type of road bike with a 24 speed derailleur system
> who
> > > would win on a flat stretch of road with the same rider?
> > > (I'm talking about gear ratio advantage)
> > >
> > > Brandon
> > >
> >
>

Members are encouraged to help the group grow by inviting fellow
bicyclists to join.  If any members are also members of cycling clubs
then links to the site in groups newsletters or web sites are
requested.

Rich Wood

Here is a link to a article by Sheldon Brown on various Sturmey Archer
gear hubs.

A short summary of each of 48 hub models is provided including gear
ratios of each.  The below link is also now in the links area.

http://sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer.html

Rich Wood

Thanks Rich i was just curious to know about these gear ratios because
my lightweight road bike was becoming a bit boring so i laced and
trued my sturmey archer 1950s hub into the rim and then contacted my
friend who owns the same kind of bike just a different brand
and sorted out a place to meet for a race (on a flat)
and we both went flat out but i won by about 2 meters!

which really surprised me after riding his bike i noticed mine wasn't
that smooth in gear ratios but provided high speed this was a hundred
meter race, my friend and me are both the same strength riders so i
rode his and he rode mine still my bike won by about 2 meters.

my friends bike was in 8th gear at the rear and 3rd at the front and i
got to a point that it wouldn't go any faster whereas my hub just kept
going faster i live in Australia and the hub is unknown what bike it
came of i just found it on this bent up wheel on the side of the road.

Brandon.


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
<astronut1001@...> wrote:
>
> Brandon;
>
> Here is a link to a article about the Sturmey Archer AM three speed
> hub which discusses it's ratios and gearing.  I found it after a
> minimal Google search.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/cyqlist/saam.html
>
> It appears that this is a close ratio hub so the gearing range
> provided is narrower than with the much more common AW hub.
>
> Rich Wood
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> <astronut1001@> wrote:
> >
> > Brandon;
> >
> > I would note for comparison purposes on gearing that my Rohloff 14
> > speed hub Civia Highland has a low gear of 21" and a high of
> 110".
> > My Swobo Dixon with 9 speed SRAM hub has a low of 27" and a high
> of
> > about 94".  Both are as delivered figures and have not been
> modified
> > by changing chain rings or sprockets.
> >
> > Too high a high gear is rough on the knees.  Use of a high gear
> > higher than 100", except for downhill or tailwind use, should  be
> > confined to riders in excellent condition with good knees.
> Spinning
> > a lower gear at higher cadence is much easier on the joints and
> leg
> > muscles than straining in a higher gear.
> >
> > If you would like a discussion of the meaning of bicycle gear
> inches
> > just say so.  It is an antiquated system which IMO should be
> > replaced but many American cyclists are used to it, and so can
> > relate to it.  Europeans use a different system which seems to me
> to
> > be more logical.
> >
> > Rich Wood
> >
> >
> > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Brandon;
> > >
> > > The Sturmey Archer 3 speed has ratios of about .75 in first, 1.0
> > in
> > > second and 1.33 in third.  Overall range from low to high is
> > 177%.
> > > This is for the standard AW version.  Over their 100+ years
> > Sturmey
> > > Archer made many 3 speed hub varuations with various internal
> > ratios.
> > >
> > > Overall drive ratio in each gear is still determined by
> chainring
> > and
> > > sprocket sizes and can be varied over a wide range.  Generally
> > > speaking three speed hub gearing is chosen to give a high gear
> of
> > 80"
> > > to 85" in third or high gear.  This gives a low of around 45"
> > which is
> > > low enough to allow moderate to medium hill climbing, depending
> on
> > the
> > > rider's condition.
> > >
> > > Current derailleur systems have ranges of about 250% to 300% for
> a
> > two
> > > chain ring road system and up to approximately 525%, and an
> > extreme of
> > > 600%, for a 3 chain ring wide ratio mountain bike derailleur
> > system.
> > >
> > > The high gear on these systems is commonly chosen to be in the
> > 100" to
> > > 120" range.  Thus for the same pedalling cadence the derailleur
> > system
> > > in high gear will provide greater speed.
> > >
> > > One reason for the popularity of the newer 7, 8, 9 and 14 speed
> > gear
> > > hub systems is the fact that they have total gear ranges
> > comparable to
> > > many derailleur systems.  The Shimano and Sturmey Archer 8
> speeds
> > are
> > > in the 300% overall ratio range while the 9 speed SRAM hub has a
> > 340%
> > > range and the 14 speed Rohloff has a range of 526%.  These are
> > much
> > > more competitive with derailleur systems.  They have smalller
> > steps
> > > between gears than the 3 speed Sturmey Archer and greater
> overall
> > gear
> > > ranges.
> > >
> > > These units allow a lower low for easily climbing steeper hills
> > while
> > > also allowing a higher high for greater speed on the flat and/or
> > when
> > > pedalling down hill or with a tailwind.
> > >
> > > All 3 speed gear hubs currently made have similar ratios.  All
> > also
> > > are basically derived from the original Sturmey Archer 3 speed
> > unit
> > > introduced in 1902.  It was state of the art then but there has
> > been
> > > major progress in both gear hubs and derailleurs since.  By
> modern
> > > standards the 3 speed is considered to be good for reasonably
> flat
> > > terrain riding unless the rider is in excellent condition.  From
> > an
> > > ergonomics standpoint the range is considered quite marginal and
> > the
> > > jumps between ratios are too great.
> > >
> > > Rich Wood
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If i had my sturmey archer in 3rd gear what gear or ratio
> would
> > my
> > > > sturmey archer be if compared to a derailleur system?
> > > > And would a sturmey archer 3 speed AM hub installed on a road
> > bike vs
> > > > a the same type of road bike with a 24 speed derailleur system
> > who
> > > > would win on a flat stretch of road with the same rider?
> > > > (I'm talking about gear ratio advantage)
> > > >
> > > > Brandon
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Brandon;

Based on the info I have seen what you have is a pretty rare Sturmey
Archer hub.  Originally it was designed for sports use.  Almost all
British road competition at the time was time trials held on
relatively flat courses and the AM looks to be designed for just
such use with it's narrow range of gearing.

At the time derailleur gearing was not popular in Britain.
Considering the derailleurs available at the time quite
understandable IMO.  When I lived in Pleasanton, CA I knew a kiwi
who had ridden the tour in the late 50s or early 60s.  His
description of the derailleur equipment of the time made it sound
like it was pretty bad by current standards.

The Suntour and Shimano development of wide range derailleurs and
freewheels in the early period of mountain bike popularity
enormously increased their capabilities.  They also developed
freewheel tooth forms and chain sideplates which aided immensely in
shifting performance.  They ended up putting the whole of the
european derailleur manufacturers, except Campy and Sachs-Maillard,
out of business.  Sachs is now SRAM and they and Campy seem to be
the ony european derailleur suppliers left.

Rich Wood


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
<rogersbrandon96@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Rich i was just curious to know about these gear ratios
because
> my lightweight road bike was becoming a bit boring so i laced and
> trued my sturmey archer 1950s hub into the rim and then contacted
my
> friend who owns the same kind of bike just a different brand
> and sorted out a place to meet for a race (on a flat)
> and we both went flat out but i won by about 2 meters!
>
> which really surprised me after riding his bike i noticed mine
wasn't
> that smooth in gear ratios but provided high speed this was a
hundred
> meter race, my friend and me are both the same strength riders so i
> rode his and he rode mine still my bike won by about 2 meters.
>
> my friends bike was in 8th gear at the rear and 3rd at the front
and i
> got to a point that it wouldn't go any faster whereas my hub just
kept
> going faster i live in Australia and the hub is unknown what bike
it
> came of i just found it on this bent up wheel on the side of the
road.
>
> Brandon.
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> <astronut1001@> wrote:
> >
> > Brandon;
> >
> > Here is a link to a article about the Sturmey Archer AM three
speed
> > hub which discusses it's ratios and gearing.  I found it after a
> > minimal Google search.
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/cyqlist/saam.html
> >
> > It appears that this is a close ratio hub so the gearing range
> > provided is narrower than with the much more common AW hub.
> >
> > Rich Wood
> >
> >
> > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Brandon;
> > >
> > > I would note for comparison purposes on gearing that my
Rohloff 14
> > > speed hub Civia Highland has a low gear of 21" and a high of
> > 110".
> > > My Swobo Dixon with 9 speed SRAM hub has a low of 27" and a
high
> > of
> > > about 94".  Both are as delivered figures and have not been
> > modified
> > > by changing chain rings or sprockets.
> > >
> > > Too high a high gear is rough on the knees.  Use of a high
gear
> > > higher than 100", except for downhill or tailwind use, should
be
> > > confined to riders in excellent condition with good knees.
> > Spinning
> > > a lower gear at higher cadence is much easier on the joints
and
> > leg
> > > muscles than straining in a higher gear.
> > >
> > > If you would like a discussion of the meaning of bicycle gear
> > inches
> > > just say so.  It is an antiquated system which IMO should be
> > > replaced but many American cyclists are used to it, and so can
> > > relate to it.  Europeans use a different system which seems to
me
> > to
> > > be more logical.
> > >
> > > Rich Wood
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Brandon;
> > > >
> > > > The Sturmey Archer 3 speed has ratios of about .75 in first,
1.0
> > > in
> > > > second and 1.33 in third.  Overall range from low to high is
> > > 177%.
> > > > This is for the standard AW version.  Over their 100+ years
> > > Sturmey
> > > > Archer made many 3 speed hub varuations with various
internal
> > > ratios.
> > > >
> > > > Overall drive ratio in each gear is still determined by
> > chainring
> > > and
> > > > sprocket sizes and can be varied over a wide range.
Generally
> > > > speaking three speed hub gearing is chosen to give a high
gear
> > of
> > > 80"
> > > > to 85" in third or high gear.  This gives a low of around
45"
> > > which is
> > > > low enough to allow moderate to medium hill climbing,
depending
> > on
> > > the
> > > > rider's condition.
> > > >
> > > > Current derailleur systems have ranges of about 250% to 300%
for
> > a
> > > two
> > > > chain ring road system and up to approximately 525%, and an
> > > extreme of
> > > > 600%, for a 3 chain ring wide ratio mountain bike derailleur
> > > system.
> > > >
> > > > The high gear on these systems is commonly chosen to be in
the
> > > 100" to
> > > > 120" range.  Thus for the same pedalling cadence the
derailleur
> > > system
> > > > in high gear will provide greater speed.
> > > >
> > > > One reason for the popularity of the newer 7, 8, 9 and 14
speed
> > > gear
> > > > hub systems is the fact that they have total gear ranges
> > > comparable to
> > > > many derailleur systems.  The Shimano and Sturmey Archer 8
> > speeds
> > > are
> > > > in the 300% overall ratio range while the 9 speed SRAM hub
has a
> > > 340%
> > > > range and the 14 speed Rohloff has a range of 526%.  These
are
> > > much
> > > > more competitive with derailleur systems.  They have
smalller
> > > steps
> > > > between gears than the 3 speed Sturmey Archer and greater
> > overall
> > > gear
> > > > ranges.
> > > >
> > > > These units allow a lower low for easily climbing steeper
hills
> > > while
> > > > also allowing a higher high for greater speed on the flat
and/or
> > > when
> > > > pedalling down hill or with a tailwind.
> > > >
> > > > All 3 speed gear hubs currently made have similar ratios.
All
> > > also
> > > > are basically derived from the original Sturmey Archer 3
speed
> > > unit
> > > > introduced in 1902.  It was state of the art then but there
has
> > > been
> > > > major progress in both gear hubs and derailleurs since.  By
> > modern
> > > > standards the 3 speed is considered to be good for
reasonably
> > flat
> > > > terrain riding unless the rider is in excellent condition.
From
> > > an
> > > > ergonomics standpoint the range is considered quite marginal
and
> > > the
> > > > jumps between ratios are too great.
> > > >
> > > > Rich Wood
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > > > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > If i had my sturmey archer in 3rd gear what gear or ratio
> > would
> > > my
> > > > > sturmey archer be if compared to a derailleur system?
> > > > > And would a sturmey archer 3 speed AM hub installed on a
road
> > > bike vs
> > > > > a the same type of road bike with a 24 speed derailleur
system
> > > who
> > > > > would win on a flat stretch of road with the same rider?
> > > > > (I'm talking about gear ratio advantage)
> > > > >
> > > > > Brandon
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

So Rich my hub is rare that's pretty good, thanks for that. so its a
close ratio hub that's alright considering i got it of some old rim.
Are you American?, if so is sturmey archer popular over there because
Australian bikes eg: malvern stars were made with SA hubs up til the
1990s and rare Bmx bikes have them too.
Do you have any more info of why they swapped to derailleurs when
there is so much more potential in inner geared hubs?

I would love to see a SA 10 speed inner geared hub put into production
and put on a brand new road bike used for the tour De France that
would prove how superior the inner geared hub is to derailleurs!

Brandon.


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
<astronut1001@...> wrote:
>
> Brandon;
>
> Based on the info I have seen what you have is a pretty rare Sturmey
> Archer hub.  Originally it was designed for sports use.  Almost all
> British road competition at the time was time trials held on
> relatively flat courses and the AM looks to be designed for just
> such use with it's narrow range of gearing.
>
> At the time derailleur gearing was not popular in Britain.
> Considering the derailleurs available at the time quite
> understandable IMO.  When I lived in Pleasanton, CA I knew a kiwi
> who had ridden the tour in the late 50s or early 60s.  His
> description of the derailleur equipment of the time made it sound
> like it was pretty bad by current standards.
>
> The Suntour and Shimano development of wide range derailleurs and
> freewheels in the early period of mountain bike popularity
> enormously increased their capabilities.  They also developed
> freewheel tooth forms and chain sideplates which aided immensely in
> shifting performance.  They ended up putting the whole of the
> european derailleur manufacturers, except Campy and Sachs-Maillard,
> out of business.  Sachs is now SRAM and they and Campy seem to be
> the ony european derailleur suppliers left.
>
> Rich Wood
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Rich i was just curious to know about these gear ratios
> because
> > my lightweight road bike was becoming a bit boring so i laced and
> > trued my sturmey archer 1950s hub into the rim and then contacted
> my
> > friend who owns the same kind of bike just a different brand
> > and sorted out a place to meet for a race (on a flat)
> > and we both went flat out but i won by about 2 meters!
> >
> > which really surprised me after riding his bike i noticed mine
> wasn't
> > that smooth in gear ratios but provided high speed this was a
> hundred
> > meter race, my friend and me are both the same strength riders so i
> > rode his and he rode mine still my bike won by about 2 meters.
> >
> > my friends bike was in 8th gear at the rear and 3rd at the front
> and i
> > got to a point that it wouldn't go any faster whereas my hub just
> kept
> > going faster i live in Australia and the hub is unknown what bike
> it
> > came of i just found it on this bent up wheel on the side of the
> road.
> >
> > Brandon.
> >
> >
> > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Brandon;
> > >
> > > Here is a link to a article about the Sturmey Archer AM three
> speed
> > > hub which discusses it's ratios and gearing.  I found it after a
> > > minimal Google search.
> > >
> > > http://www.geocities.com/cyqlist/saam.html
> > >
> > > It appears that this is a close ratio hub so the gearing range
> > > provided is narrower than with the much more common AW hub.
> > >
> > > Rich Wood
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Brandon;
> > > >
> > > > I would note for comparison purposes on gearing that my
> Rohloff 14
> > > > speed hub Civia Highland has a low gear of 21" and a high of
> > > 110".
> > > > My Swobo Dixon with 9 speed SRAM hub has a low of 27" and a
> high
> > > of
> > > > about 94".  Both are as delivered figures and have not been
> > > modified
> > > > by changing chain rings or sprockets.
> > > >
> > > > Too high a high gear is rough on the knees.  Use of a high
> gear
> > > > higher than 100", except for downhill or tailwind use, should
> be
> > > > confined to riders in excellent condition with good knees.
> > > Spinning
> > > > a lower gear at higher cadence is much easier on the joints
> and
> > > leg
> > > > muscles than straining in a higher gear.
> > > >
> > > > If you would like a discussion of the meaning of bicycle gear
> > > inches
> > > > just say so.  It is an antiquated system which IMO should be
> > > > replaced but many American cyclists are used to it, and so can
> > > > relate to it.  Europeans use a different system which seems to
> me
> > > to
> > > > be more logical.
> > > >
> > > > Rich Wood
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Brandon;
> > > > >
> > > > > The Sturmey Archer 3 speed has ratios of about .75 in first,
> 1.0
> > > > in
> > > > > second and 1.33 in third.  Overall range from low to high is
> > > > 177%.
> > > > > This is for the standard AW version.  Over their 100+ years
> > > > Sturmey
> > > > > Archer made many 3 speed hub varuations with various
> internal
> > > > ratios.
> > > > >
> > > > > Overall drive ratio in each gear is still determined by
> > > chainring
> > > > and
> > > > > sprocket sizes and can be varied over a wide range.
> Generally
> > > > > speaking three speed hub gearing is chosen to give a high
> gear
> > > of
> > > > 80"
> > > > > to 85" in third or high gear.  This gives a low of around
> 45"
> > > > which is
> > > > > low enough to allow moderate to medium hill climbing,
> depending
> > > on
> > > > the
> > > > > rider's condition.
> > > > >
> > > > > Current derailleur systems have ranges of about 250% to 300%
> for
> > > a
> > > > two
> > > > > chain ring road system and up to approximately 525%, and an
> > > > extreme of
> > > > > 600%, for a 3 chain ring wide ratio mountain bike derailleur
> > > > system.
> > > > >
> > > > > The high gear on these systems is commonly chosen to be in
> the
> > > > 100" to
> > > > > 120" range.  Thus for the same pedalling cadence the
> derailleur
> > > > system
> > > > > in high gear will provide greater speed.
> > > > >
> > > > > One reason for the popularity of the newer 7, 8, 9 and 14
> speed
> > > > gear
> > > > > hub systems is the fact that they have total gear ranges
> > > > comparable to
> > > > > many derailleur systems.  The Shimano and Sturmey Archer 8
> > > speeds
> > > > are
> > > > > in the 300% overall ratio range while the 9 speed SRAM hub
> has a
> > > > 340%
> > > > > range and the 14 speed Rohloff has a range of 526%.  These
> are
> > > > much
> > > > > more competitive with derailleur systems.  They have
> smalller
> > > > steps
> > > > > between gears than the 3 speed Sturmey Archer and greater
> > > overall
> > > > gear
> > > > > ranges.
> > > > >
> > > > > These units allow a lower low for easily climbing steeper
> hills
> > > > while
> > > > > also allowing a higher high for greater speed on the flat
> and/or
> > > > when
> > > > > pedalling down hill or with a tailwind.
> > > > >
> > > > > All 3 speed gear hubs currently made have similar ratios.
> All
> > > > also
> > > > > are basically derived from the original Sturmey Archer 3
> speed
> > > > unit
> > > > > introduced in 1902.  It was state of the art then but there
> has
> > > > been
> > > > > major progress in both gear hubs and derailleurs since.  By
> > > modern
> > > > > standards the 3 speed is considered to be good for
> reasonably
> > > flat
> > > > > terrain riding unless the rider is in excellent condition.
> From
> > > > an
> > > > > ergonomics standpoint the range is considered quite marginal
> and
> > > > the
> > > > > jumps between ratios are too great.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rich Wood
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > > > > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If i had my sturmey archer in 3rd gear what gear or ratio
> > > would
> > > > my
> > > > > > sturmey archer be if compared to a derailleur system?
> > > > > > And would a sturmey archer 3 speed AM hub installed on a
> road
> > > > bike vs
> > > > > > a the same type of road bike with a 24 speed derailleur
> system
> > > > who
> > > > > > would win on a flat stretch of road with the same rider?
> > > > > > (I'm talking about gear ratio advantage)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brandon
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Brandon;

I am American and live in Reno, Nevada.

SA does do an 8 speed hub though the gear range is wierd compared to
Shimano, SRAM and Rohloff gear hubs.

Derailleur gear trains are still lighter than the best high gear
count hubs, particularly the top end derailleur gear trains using
lots of carbon fiber and titanium in addition to aluminum.  Remember
that in a Tour bike price is not a consideration and they have
really top mechanics going over each bike with a microscope on a
daily basis.

IMO the strengths of a gear hub, properly designed and made, are
long term dependability and much less susceptiblity to the effects
of mud, dust and bad weather.  Also once initial cable stretch is
out of the shifter cable they hold adjustment longer than
derailleurs.

Per the book Bicycling Science, and test figures on the Rohloff web
site, the derailleur gear train is very slightly more efficient.
This does vary however with the derailleur sprocket selection being
used.

A rear derailleur is very subject to damage from a fall or other
impact from riding in rocky areas such as mountain bikers do
routinely.  The latest gear hubs from SRAM, Shimano and Rohloff do
not have parts which protrude like a derailleur gear train does.
This makes them much less susceptible to damage in my opinion.

Thorn Bicycles in England makes some really high end adventure and
touring bikes.  Their designer is a strong proponent of the Rohloff
hub.  He has used it for rough road touring in Australia, Tasmania
and in South America.  Rides have included multiple trips over the
Andes on dirt and gravel roads to altitudes close to 15,000 feet
with no problems from the Rohloff hub.  It seems to be virtually
unbreakable.  To me this is an area of use where a gear hub shines.

Also better than derailleur gear trains for use in city riding and
traffic due to the faster shifting and the ability to shift while
stopped at traffic lights or other stops.  Just more user friendly
overall in this environment.

Rich Wood


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
<rogersbrandon96@...> wrote:
>
> So Rich my hub is rare that's pretty good, thanks for that. so its
a
> close ratio hub that's alright considering i got it of some old
rim.
> Are you American?, if so is sturmey archer popular over there
because
> Australian bikes eg: malvern stars were made with SA hubs up til
the
> 1990s and rare Bmx bikes have them too.
> Do you have any more info of why they swapped to derailleurs when
> there is so much more potential in inner geared hubs?
>
> I would love to see a SA 10 speed inner geared hub put into
production
> and put on a brand new road bike used for the tour De France that
> would prove how superior the inner geared hub is to derailleurs!
>
> Brandon.
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> <astronut1001@> wrote:
> >
> > Brandon;
> >
> > Based on the info I have seen what you have is a pretty rare
Sturmey
> > Archer hub.  Originally it was designed for sports use.  Almost
all
> > British road competition at the time was time trials held on
> > relatively flat courses and the AM looks to be designed for just
> > such use with it's narrow range of gearing.
> >
> > At the time derailleur gearing was not popular in Britain.
> > Considering the derailleurs available at the time quite
> > understandable IMO.  When I lived in Pleasanton, CA I knew a
kiwi
> > who had ridden the tour in the late 50s or early 60s.  His
> > description of the derailleur equipment of the time made it
sound
> > like it was pretty bad by current standards.
> >
> > The Suntour and Shimano development of wide range derailleurs
and
> > freewheels in the early period of mountain bike popularity
> > enormously increased their capabilities.  They also developed
> > freewheel tooth forms and chain sideplates which aided immensely
in
> > shifting performance.  They ended up putting the whole of the
> > european derailleur manufacturers, except Campy and Sachs-
Maillard,
> > out of business.  Sachs is now SRAM and they and Campy seem to
be
> > the ony european derailleur suppliers left.
> >
> > Rich Wood
> >
> >
> > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Rich i was just curious to know about these gear ratios
> > because
> > > my lightweight road bike was becoming a bit boring so i laced
and
> > > trued my sturmey archer 1950s hub into the rim and then
contacted
> > my
> > > friend who owns the same kind of bike just a different brand
> > > and sorted out a place to meet for a race (on a flat)
> > > and we both went flat out but i won by about 2 meters!
> > >
> > > which really surprised me after riding his bike i noticed mine
> > wasn't
> > > that smooth in gear ratios but provided high speed this was a
> > hundred
> > > meter race, my friend and me are both the same strength riders
so i
> > > rode his and he rode mine still my bike won by about 2 meters.
> > >
> > > my friends bike was in 8th gear at the rear and 3rd at the
front
> > and i
> > > got to a point that it wouldn't go any faster whereas my hub
just
> > kept
> > > going faster i live in Australia and the hub is unknown what
bike
> > it
> > > came of i just found it on this bent up wheel on the side of
the
> > road.
> > >
> > > Brandon.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Brandon;
> > > >
> > > > Here is a link to a article about the Sturmey Archer AM
three
> > speed
> > > > hub which discusses it's ratios and gearing.  I found it
after a
> > > > minimal Google search.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.geocities.com/cyqlist/saam.html
> > > >
> > > > It appears that this is a close ratio hub so the gearing
range
> > > > provided is narrower than with the much more common AW hub.
> > > >
> > > > Rich Wood
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Brandon;
> > > > >
> > > > > I would note for comparison purposes on gearing that my
> > Rohloff 14
> > > > > speed hub Civia Highland has a low gear of 21" and a high
of
> > > > 110".
> > > > > My Swobo Dixon with 9 speed SRAM hub has a low of 27" and
a
> > high
> > > > of
> > > > > about 94".  Both are as delivered figures and have not
been
> > > > modified
> > > > > by changing chain rings or sprockets.
> > > > >
> > > > > Too high a high gear is rough on the knees.  Use of a high
> > gear
> > > > > higher than 100", except for downhill or tailwind use,
should
> > be
> > > > > confined to riders in excellent condition with good
knees.
> > > > Spinning
> > > > > a lower gear at higher cadence is much easier on the
joints
> > and
> > > > leg
> > > > > muscles than straining in a higher gear.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you would like a discussion of the meaning of bicycle
gear
> > > > inches
> > > > > just say so.  It is an antiquated system which IMO should
be
> > > > > replaced but many American cyclists are used to it, and so
can
> > > > > relate to it.  Europeans use a different system which
seems to
> > me
> > > > to
> > > > > be more logical.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rich Wood
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brandon;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Sturmey Archer 3 speed has ratios of about .75 in
first,
> > 1.0
> > > > > in
> > > > > > second and 1.33 in third.  Overall range from low to
high is
> > > > > 177%.
> > > > > > This is for the standard AW version.  Over their 100+
years
> > > > > Sturmey
> > > > > > Archer made many 3 speed hub varuations with various
> > internal
> > > > > ratios.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Overall drive ratio in each gear is still determined by
> > > > chainring
> > > > > and
> > > > > > sprocket sizes and can be varied over a wide range.
> > Generally
> > > > > > speaking three speed hub gearing is chosen to give a
high
> > gear
> > > > of
> > > > > 80"
> > > > > > to 85" in third or high gear.  This gives a low of
around
> > 45"
> > > > > which is
> > > > > > low enough to allow moderate to medium hill climbing,
> > depending
> > > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > rider's condition.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Current derailleur systems have ranges of about 250% to
300%
> > for
> > > > a
> > > > > two
> > > > > > chain ring road system and up to approximately 525%, and
an
> > > > > extreme of
> > > > > > 600%, for a 3 chain ring wide ratio mountain bike
derailleur
> > > > > system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The high gear on these systems is commonly chosen to be
in
> > the
> > > > > 100" to
> > > > > > 120" range.  Thus for the same pedalling cadence the
> > derailleur
> > > > > system
> > > > > > in high gear will provide greater speed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One reason for the popularity of the newer 7, 8, 9 and
14
> > speed
> > > > > gear
> > > > > > hub systems is the fact that they have total gear ranges
> > > > > comparable to
> > > > > > many derailleur systems.  The Shimano and Sturmey Archer
8
> > > > speeds
> > > > > are
> > > > > > in the 300% overall ratio range while the 9 speed SRAM
hub
> > has a
> > > > > 340%
> > > > > > range and the 14 speed Rohloff has a range of 526%.
These
> > are
> > > > > much
> > > > > > more competitive with derailleur systems.  They have
> > smalller
> > > > > steps
> > > > > > between gears than the 3 speed Sturmey Archer and
greater
> > > > overall
> > > > > gear
> > > > > > ranges.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > These units allow a lower low for easily climbing
steeper
> > hills
> > > > > while
> > > > > > also allowing a higher high for greater speed on the
flat
> > and/or
> > > > > when
> > > > > > pedalling down hill or with a tailwind.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All 3 speed gear hubs currently made have similar
ratios.
> > All
> > > > > also
> > > > > > are basically derived from the original Sturmey Archer 3
> > speed
> > > > > unit
> > > > > > introduced in 1902.  It was state of the art then but
there
> > has
> > > > > been
> > > > > > major progress in both gear hubs and derailleurs since.
By
> > > > modern
> > > > > > standards the 3 speed is considered to be good for
> > reasonably
> > > > flat
> > > > > > terrain riding unless the rider is in excellent
condition.
> > From
> > > > > an
> > > > > > ergonomics standpoint the range is considered quite
marginal
> > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > jumps between ratios are too great.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rich Wood
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > > > > > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If i had my sturmey archer in 3rd gear what gear or
ratio
> > > > would
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > sturmey archer be if compared to a derailleur system?
> > > > > > > And would a sturmey archer 3 speed AM hub installed on
a
> > road
> > > > > bike vs
> > > > > > > a the same type of road bike with a 24 speed
derailleur
> > system
> > > > > who
> > > > > > > would win on a flat stretch of road with the same
rider?
> > > > > > > (I'm talking about gear ratio advantage)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brandon
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Brandon;

Two reasons for derailleur gear trains being more popular.
Derailleurs took over when the typical gear hub was the 3 speed unit
from SA, Sachs or Shimano typically fitted to a utility type
bicycle.  A 10 speed derailleur system could be made for the same or
less money and for the sales people, and many customers, 10 speeds
sounded sexier han 3.  Also racers were using derailleurs.

Even now you can get a decent derailleur bike for less money than a
high gear count gear hub bike generally speaking.  A lot more
precision machining and parts in the hub than in a derailleur system.

Here in the US currently the gear hub is gaining in popularity,
primarily on lower performance commuter and cruiser type bikes.
These are typically using Shimano 7 and 8 speed hubs with 3 speeds
on the bottom end bikes.  Virtually all Anerican brands offer
several bikes in this category.

One maker ofers a model using the SRAM (originally Sachs) 9 speed
hub and one offers a bike with the Rohloff hub.

Sturmey Archer is now owned by a Taiwanese company and is no longer
common in the US.  A few models are imported but distribution seems
pretty limited.  No longer the first choice of manufacturers looking
to offer a gear hub bike.

Rich Wood


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
<rogersbrandon96@...> wrote:
>
> So Rich my hub is rare that's pretty good, thanks for that. so its
a
> close ratio hub that's alright considering i got it of some old
rim.
> Are you American?, if so is sturmey archer popular over there
because
> Australian bikes eg: malvern stars were made with SA hubs up til
the
> 1990s and rare Bmx bikes have them too.
> Do you have any more info of why they swapped to derailleurs when
> there is so much more potential in inner geared hubs?
>
> I would love to see a SA 10 speed inner geared hub put into
production
> and put on a brand new road bike used for the tour De France that
> would prove how superior the inner geared hub is to derailleurs!
>
> Brandon.
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> <astronut1001@> wrote:
> >
> > Brandon;
> >
> > Based on the info I have seen what you have is a pretty rare
Sturmey
> > Archer hub.  Originally it was designed for sports use.  Almost
all
> > British road competition at the time was time trials held on
> > relatively flat courses and the AM looks to be designed for just
> > such use with it's narrow range of gearing.
> >
> > At the time derailleur gearing was not popular in Britain.
> > Considering the derailleurs available at the time quite
> > understandable IMO.  When I lived in Pleasanton, CA I knew a
kiwi
> > who had ridden the tour in the late 50s or early 60s.  His
> > description of the derailleur equipment of the time made it
sound
> > like it was pretty bad by current standards.
> >
> > The Suntour and Shimano development of wide range derailleurs
and
> > freewheels in the early period of mountain bike popularity
> > enormously increased their capabilities.  They also developed
> > freewheel tooth forms and chain sideplates which aided immensely
in
> > shifting performance.  They ended up putting the whole of the
> > european derailleur manufacturers, except Campy and Sachs-
Maillard,
> > out of business.  Sachs is now SRAM and they and Campy seem to
be
> > the ony european derailleur suppliers left.
> >
> > Rich Wood
> >
> >
> > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Rich i was just curious to know about these gear ratios
> > because
> > > my lightweight road bike was becoming a bit boring so i laced
and
> > > trued my sturmey archer 1950s hub into the rim and then
contacted
> > my
> > > friend who owns the same kind of bike just a different brand
> > > and sorted out a place to meet for a race (on a flat)
> > > and we both went flat out but i won by about 2 meters!
> > >
> > > which really surprised me after riding his bike i noticed mine
> > wasn't
> > > that smooth in gear ratios but provided high speed this was a
> > hundred
> > > meter race, my friend and me are both the same strength riders
so i
> > > rode his and he rode mine still my bike won by about 2 meters.
> > >
> > > my friends bike was in 8th gear at the rear and 3rd at the
front
> > and i
> > > got to a point that it wouldn't go any faster whereas my hub
just
> > kept
> > > going faster i live in Australia and the hub is unknown what
bike
> > it
> > > came of i just found it on this bent up wheel on the side of
the
> > road.
> > >
> > > Brandon.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Brandon;
> > > >
> > > > Here is a link to a article about the Sturmey Archer AM
three
> > speed
> > > > hub which discusses it's ratios and gearing.  I found it
after a
> > > > minimal Google search.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.geocities.com/cyqlist/saam.html
> > > >
> > > > It appears that this is a close ratio hub so the gearing
range
> > > > provided is narrower than with the much more common AW hub.
> > > >
> > > > Rich Wood
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Brandon;
> > > > >
> > > > > I would note for comparison purposes on gearing that my
> > Rohloff 14
> > > > > speed hub Civia Highland has a low gear of 21" and a high
of
> > > > 110".
> > > > > My Swobo Dixon with 9 speed SRAM hub has a low of 27" and
a
> > high
> > > > of
> > > > > about 94".  Both are as delivered figures and have not
been
> > > > modified
> > > > > by changing chain rings or sprockets.
> > > > >
> > > > > Too high a high gear is rough on the knees.  Use of a high
> > gear
> > > > > higher than 100", except for downhill or tailwind use,
should
> > be
> > > > > confined to riders in excellent condition with good
knees.
> > > > Spinning
> > > > > a lower gear at higher cadence is much easier on the
joints
> > and
> > > > leg
> > > > > muscles than straining in a higher gear.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you would like a discussion of the meaning of bicycle
gear
> > > > inches
> > > > > just say so.  It is an antiquated system which IMO should
be
> > > > > replaced but many American cyclists are used to it, and so
can
> > > > > relate to it.  Europeans use a different system which
seems to
> > me
> > > > to
> > > > > be more logical.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rich Wood
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brandon;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Sturmey Archer 3 speed has ratios of about .75 in
first,
> > 1.0
> > > > > in
> > > > > > second and 1.33 in third.  Overall range from low to
high is
> > > > > 177%.
> > > > > > This is for the standard AW version.  Over their 100+
years
> > > > > Sturmey
> > > > > > Archer made many 3 speed hub varuations with various
> > internal
> > > > > ratios.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Overall drive ratio in each gear is still determined by
> > > > chainring
> > > > > and
> > > > > > sprocket sizes and can be varied over a wide range.
> > Generally
> > > > > > speaking three speed hub gearing is chosen to give a
high
> > gear
> > > > of
> > > > > 80"
> > > > > > to 85" in third or high gear.  This gives a low of
around
> > 45"
> > > > > which is
> > > > > > low enough to allow moderate to medium hill climbing,
> > depending
> > > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > rider's condition.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Current derailleur systems have ranges of about 250% to
300%
> > for
> > > > a
> > > > > two
> > > > > > chain ring road system and up to approximately 525%, and
an
> > > > > extreme of
> > > > > > 600%, for a 3 chain ring wide ratio mountain bike
derailleur
> > > > > system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The high gear on these systems is commonly chosen to be
in
> > the
> > > > > 100" to
> > > > > > 120" range.  Thus for the same pedalling cadence the
> > derailleur
> > > > > system
> > > > > > in high gear will provide greater speed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One reason for the popularity of the newer 7, 8, 9 and
14
> > speed
> > > > > gear
> > > > > > hub systems is the fact that they have total gear ranges
> > > > > comparable to
> > > > > > many derailleur systems.  The Shimano and Sturmey Archer
8
> > > > speeds
> > > > > are
> > > > > > in the 300% overall ratio range while the 9 speed SRAM
hub
> > has a
> > > > > 340%
> > > > > > range and the 14 speed Rohloff has a range of 526%.
These
> > are
> > > > > much
> > > > > > more competitive with derailleur systems.  They have
> > smalller
> > > > > steps
> > > > > > between gears than the 3 speed Sturmey Archer and
greater
> > > > overall
> > > > > gear
> > > > > > ranges.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > These units allow a lower low for easily climbing
steeper
> > hills
> > > > > while
> > > > > > also allowing a higher high for greater speed on the
flat
> > and/or
> > > > > when
> > > > > > pedalling down hill or with a tailwind.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All 3 speed gear hubs currently made have similar
ratios.
> > All
> > > > > also
> > > > > > are basically derived from the original Sturmey Archer 3
> > speed
> > > > > unit
> > > > > > introduced in 1902.  It was state of the art then but
there
> > has
> > > > > been
> > > > > > major progress in both gear hubs and derailleurs since.
By
> > > > modern
> > > > > > standards the 3 speed is considered to be good for
> > reasonably
> > > > flat
> > > > > > terrain riding unless the rider is in excellent
condition.
> > From
> > > > > an
> > > > > > ergonomics standpoint the range is considered quite
marginal
> > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > jumps between ratios are too great.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rich Wood
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > > > > > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If i had my sturmey archer in 3rd gear what gear or
ratio
> > > > would
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > sturmey archer be if compared to a derailleur system?
> > > > > > > And would a sturmey archer 3 speed AM hub installed on
a
> > road
> > > > > bike vs
> > > > > > > a the same type of road bike with a 24 speed
derailleur
> > system
> > > > > who
> > > > > > > would win on a flat stretch of road with the same
rider?
> > > > > > > (I'm talking about gear ratio advantage)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brandon
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

I have posted two photos of Rohloff hubs installed in A.N.T. Bikes per
a member's request.  They are in the files area in the folder Rohloff.

Here is a link to the A.N.T. web site for those interested.  Lots more
photos there.

http://www.antbikemike.com/rohloff.html

One of the hubs has the external shifting mechanism option while the
other has an internal shifter.  The external one weighs more but uses
full length cable housings so the shifting is less subject to dirt and
water contamination of the cables.  It also allows easier rear wheel
removal.  This is the version on my Civia Hyland.

Both are quick release versions.  Rohloff also offers solid axle with
nut mounting versions.  So far as I know Rohloff is the only gear hub
maker who does offer quick release gear hubs currently. They use a
normal quick release skewer.

A few of the close ratio Sturmey Archer hubs such as the very rare ASC
fixed gear hub came with large wing nuts for quick removal of the rear
wheel without tools per an old SA advertisement I have seen reproduced
on the web.  Here is a link to a photo of one.  Scroll down to the AR
type hub information.

http://sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer.html

Rich Wood

When I noted that the Civia Hykand uses the external shuft mechanism
version of the Rohloff hub like the bike in one of the photos I also
should have noted that it is also fitted with the Rohloff disc brake
mount option and Rohloff brake disc.  The bike has hydraulic disc
brakes fitted front and rear.  I will try to take some photos in the
next few days of all my gear hub bikes and upload them.

All members are encouraged to upload your own photos too.

Rich Wood


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
<astronut1001@...> wrote:
>
> I have posted two photos of Rohloff hubs installed in A.N.T. Bikes
per
> a member's request.  They are in the files area in the folder
Rohloff.
>
> Here is a link to the A.N.T. web site for those interested.  Lots
more
> photos there.
>
> http://www.antbikemike.com/rohloff.html
>
> One of the hubs has the external shifting mechanism option while
the
> other has an internal shifter.  The external one weighs more but
uses
> full length cable housings so the shifting is less subject to dirt
and
> water contamination of the cables.  It also allows easier rear
wheel
> removal.  This is the version on my Civia Hyland.
>
> Both are quick release versions.  Rohloff also offers solid axle
with
> nut mounting versions.  So far as I know Rohloff is the only gear
hub
> maker who does offer quick release gear hubs currently. They use a
> normal quick release skewer.
>
> A few of the close ratio Sturmey Archer hubs such as the very rare
ASC
> fixed gear hub came with large wing nuts for quick removal of the
rear
> wheel without tools per an old SA advertisement I have seen
reproduced
> on the web.  Here is a link to a photo of one.  Scroll down to the
AR
> type hub information.
>
> http://sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer.html
>
> Rich Wood
>

Per an older item I ran across on the web apparently Steyr of Austria
made an AW clone or licensed copy for some period after WWII.  Some
are reported to be stamped "Schwinn Approved" and were used by
Schwinn.  Stamped Austria on the hub shell.  One reported as on a 1961
Schwinn Corvette.  One poster stated parts are interchangeable with
the SA AW hub.

BSA's bicycle division made Sturmey Archer designed hubs for a long
period of time under license.

Sturmey Archer also had a manufacturing facility in Holland at one
time.  No idea if markings on the Dutch made hubs were different than
on the English ones.  Also no idea if it was an assembly only
operation or a full manufacturing plant.

Rich Wood

Brandon;

I Googled Byron Bay and looked it up in my atlas.  Looks like a
resort town about 70 Km south of Surfers Paradise.  The Google map
also shows the surrounding towns.  Which is yours?  There is also a
Wikipedia entry for Byron Bay I read.  Sounds like a nice area.

Rich Wood


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
<rogersbrandon96@...> wrote:
>
> I couldn't agree more Rich and i live somewhere you haven't heard
of so
> i will say it is near Byron bay and its not outback terrain like
most
> movies show Australia its very nice here with the beach close and
lots
> of nice potholed roads .
> and the weirdest thing is that on the riverbanks are bamboo so
figure
> that out [:-/]
> anyway i haven't heard of the rohloff hub before i joined this
group can
> you put a pic of one on a bike i would like to see the setup.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
<astronut1001@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Brandon;
> >
> > I am American and live in Reno, Nevada.
> >
> > SA does do an 8 speed hub though the gear range is wierd
compared to
> > Shimano, SRAM and Rohloff gear hubs.
> >
> > Derailleur gear trains are still lighter than the best high gear
> > count hubs, particularly the top end derailleur gear trains using
> > lots of carbon fiber and titanium in addition to aluminum.
Remember
> > that in a Tour bike price is not a consideration and they have
> > really top mechanics going over each bike with a microscope on a
> > daily basis.
> >
> > IMO the strengths of a gear hub, properly designed and made, are
> > long term dependability and much less susceptiblity to the
effects
> > of mud, dust and bad weather.  Also once initial cable stretch is
> > out of the shifter cable they hold adjustment longer than
> > derailleurs.
> >
> > Per the book Bicycling Science, and test figures on the Rohloff
web
> > site, the derailleur gear train is very slightly more efficient.
> > This does vary however with the derailleur sprocket selection
being
> > used.
> >
> > A rear derailleur is very subject to damage from a fall or other
> > impact from riding in rocky areas such as mountain bikers do
> > routinely.  The latest gear hubs from SRAM, Shimano and Rohloff
do
> > not have parts which protrude like a derailleur gear train does.
> > This makes them much less susceptible to damage in my opinion.
> >
> > Thorn Bicycles in England makes some really high end adventure
and
> > touring bikes.  Their designer is a strong proponent of the
Rohloff
> > hub.  He has used it for rough road touring in Australia,
Tasmania
> > and in South America.  Rides have included multiple trips over
the
> > Andes on dirt and gravel roads to altitudes close to 15,000 feet
> > with no problems from the Rohloff hub.  It seems to be virtually
> > unbreakable.  To me this is an area of use where a gear hub
shines.
> >
> > Also better than derailleur gear trains for use in city riding
and
> > traffic due to the faster shifting and the ability to shift while
> > stopped at traffic lights or other stops.  Just more user
friendly
> > overall in this environment.
> >
> > Rich Wood
> >
> >
> > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > rogersbrandon96@ wrote:
> > >
> > > So Rich my hub is rare that's pretty good, thanks for that. so
its
> > a
> > > close ratio hub that's alright considering i got it of some old
> > rim.
> > > Are you American?, if so is sturmey archer popular over there
> > because
> > > Australian bikes eg: malvern stars were made with SA hubs up
til
> > the
> > > 1990s and rare Bmx bikes have them too.
> > > Do you have any more info of why they swapped to derailleurs
when
> > > there is so much more potential in inner geared hubs?
> > >
> > > I would love to see a SA 10 speed inner geared hub put into
> > production
> > > and put on a brand new road bike used for the tour De France
that
> > > would prove how superior the inner geared hub is to
derailleurs!
> > >
> > > Brandon.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Brandon;
> > > >
> > > > Based on the info I have seen what you have is a pretty rare
> > Sturmey
> > > > Archer hub.  Originally it was designed for sports use.
Almost
> > all
> > > > British road competition at the time was time trials held on
> > > > relatively flat courses and the AM looks to be designed for
just
> > > > such use with it's narrow range of gearing.
> > > >
> > > > At the time derailleur gearing was not popular in Britain.
> > > > Considering the derailleurs available at the time quite
> > > > understandable IMO.  When I lived in Pleasanton, CA I knew a
> > kiwi
> > > > who had ridden the tour in the late 50s or early 60s.  His
> > > > description of the derailleur equipment of the time made it
> > sound
> > > > like it was pretty bad by current standards.
> > > >
> > > > The Suntour and Shimano development of wide range derailleurs
> > and
> > > > freewheels in the early period of mountain bike popularity
> > > > enormously increased their capabilities.  They also developed
> > > > freewheel tooth forms and chain sideplates which aided
immensely
> > in
> > > > shifting performance.  They ended up putting the whole of the
> > > > european derailleur manufacturers, except Campy and Sachs-
> > Maillard,
> > > > out of business.  Sachs is now SRAM and they and Campy seem
to
> > be
> > > > the ony european derailleur suppliers left.
> > > >
> > > > Rich Wood
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > > > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Rich i was just curious to know about these gear
ratios
> > > > because
> > > > > my lightweight road bike was becoming a bit boring so i
laced
> > and
> > > > > trued my sturmey archer 1950s hub into the rim and then
> > contacted
> > > > my
> > > > > friend who owns the same kind of bike just a different
brand
> > > > > and sorted out a place to meet for a race (on a flat)
> > > > > and we both went flat out but i won by about 2 meters!
> > > > >
> > > > > which really surprised me after riding his bike i noticed
mine
> > > > wasn't
> > > > > that smooth in gear ratios but provided high speed this
was a
> > > > hundred
> > > > > meter race, my friend and me are both the same strength
riders
> > so i
> > > > > rode his and he rode mine still my bike won by about 2
meters.
> > > > >
> > > > > my friends bike was in 8th gear at the rear and 3rd at the
> > front
> > > > and i
> > > > > got to a point that it wouldn't go any faster whereas my
hub
> > just
> > > > kept
> > > > > going faster i live in Australia and the hub is unknown
what
> > bike
> > > > it
> > > > > came of i just found it on this bent up wheel on the side
of
> > the
> > > > road.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brandon.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brandon;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here is a link to a article about the Sturmey Archer AM
> > three
> > > > speed
> > > > > > hub which discusses it's ratios and gearing.  I found it
> > after a
> > > > > > minimal Google search.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/cyqlist/saam.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It appears that this is a close ratio hub so the gearing
> > range
> > > > > > provided is narrower than with the much more common AW
hub.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rich Wood
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > > > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brandon;
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would note for comparison purposes on gearing that my
> > > > Rohloff 14
> > > > > > > speed hub Civia Highland has a low gear of 21" and a
high
> > of
> > > > > > 110".
> > > > > > > My Swobo Dixon with 9 speed SRAM hub has a low of 27"
and
> > a
> > > > high
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > about 94".  Both are as delivered figures and have not
> > been
> > > > > > modified
> > > > > > > by changing chain rings or sprockets.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Too high a high gear is rough on the knees.  Use of a
high
> > > > gear
> > > > > > > higher than 100", except for downhill or tailwind use,
> > should
> > > > be
> > > > > > > confined to riders in excellent condition with good
> > knees.
> > > > > > Spinning
> > > > > > > a lower gear at higher cadence is much easier on the
> > joints
> > > > and
> > > > > > leg
> > > > > > > muscles than straining in a higher gear.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you would like a discussion of the meaning of
bicycle
> > gear
> > > > > > inches
> > > > > > > just say so.  It is an antiquated system which IMO
should
> > be
> > > > > > > replaced but many American cyclists are used to it,
and so
> > can
> > > > > > > relate to it.  Europeans use a different system which
> > seems to
> > > > me
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > be more logical.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rich Wood
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > > > > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Brandon;
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Sturmey Archer 3 speed has ratios of about .75 in
> > first,
> > > > 1.0
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > second and 1.33 in third.  Overall range from low to
> > high is
> > > > > > > 177%.
> > > > > > > > This is for the standard AW version.  Over their 100+
> > years
> > > > > > > Sturmey
> > > > > > > > Archer made many 3 speed hub varuations with various
> > > > internal
> > > > > > > ratios.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Overall drive ratio in each gear is still determined
by
> > > > > > chainring
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > sprocket sizes and can be varied over a wide range.
> > > > Generally
> > > > > > > > speaking three speed hub gearing is chosen to give a
> > high
> > > > gear
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > 80"
> > > > > > > > to 85" in third or high gear.  This gives a low of
> > around
> > > > 45"
> > > > > > > which is
> > > > > > > > low enough to allow moderate to medium hill climbing,
> > > > depending
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > rider's condition.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Current derailleur systems have ranges of about 250%
to
> > 300%
> > > > for
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > two
> > > > > > > > chain ring road system and up to approximately 525%,
and
> > an
> > > > > > > extreme of
> > > > > > > > 600%, for a 3 chain ring wide ratio mountain bike
> > derailleur
> > > > > > > system.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The high gear on these systems is commonly chosen to
be
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > 100" to
> > > > > > > > 120" range.  Thus for the same pedalling cadence the
> > > > derailleur
> > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > in high gear will provide greater speed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > One reason for the popularity of the newer 7, 8, 9
and
> > 14
> > > > speed
> > > > > > > gear
> > > > > > > > hub systems is the fact that they have total gear
ranges
> > > > > > > comparable to
> > > > > > > > many derailleur systems.  The Shimano and Sturmey
Archer
> > 8
> > > > > > speeds
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > in the 300% overall ratio range while the 9 speed
SRAM
> > hub
> > > > has a
> > > > > > > 340%
> > > > > > > > range and the 14 speed Rohloff has a range of 526%.
> > These
> > > > are
> > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > more competitive with derailleur systems.  They have
> > > > smalller
> > > > > > > steps
> > > > > > > > between gears than the 3 speed Sturmey Archer and
> > greater
> > > > > > overall
> > > > > > > gear
> > > > > > > > ranges.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > These units allow a lower low for easily climbing
> > steeper
> > > > hills
> > > > > > > while
> > > > > > > > also allowing a higher high for greater speed on the
> > flat
> > > > and/or
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > pedalling down hill or with a tailwind.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All 3 speed gear hubs currently made have similar
> > ratios.
> > > > All
> > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > are basically derived from the original Sturmey
Archer 3
> > > > speed
> > > > > > > unit
> > > > > > > > introduced in 1902.  It was state of the art then but
> > there
> > > > has
> > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > major progress in both gear hubs and derailleurs
since.
> > By
> > > > > > modern
> > > > > > > > standards the 3 speed is considered to be good for
> > > > reasonably
> > > > > > flat
> > > > > > > > terrain riding unless the rider is in excellent
> > condition.
> > > > From
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > ergonomics standpoint the range is considered quite
> > marginal
> > > > and
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > jumps between ratios are too great.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Rich Wood
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > > > > > > > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If i had my sturmey archer in 3rd gear what gear or
> > ratio
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > sturmey archer be if compared to a derailleur
system?
> > > > > > > > > And would a sturmey archer 3 speed AM hub
installed on
> > a
> > > > road
> > > > > > > bike vs
> > > > > > > > > a the same type of road bike with a 24 speed
> > derailleur
> > > > system
> > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > would win on a flat stretch of road with the same
> > rider?
> > > > > > > > > (I'm talking about gear ratio advantage)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Brandon
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

My town is ballina i used to live in lismore and wow i didn't know
they used disc brakes on inner geared hubs.

The rohloff hub is pretty nice i can see why you like it a very
amazing bit of machinery i wouldn't mind one myself.

My hub didn't have wing nuts when i got it because it didn't have any
nuts on it so it could have had wing nuts it is made in England and is
genuine.

I have a couple of sturmey archers i will put one on here have a look
in my Sturmey archer folder.

Surfers paradise is a great place to ride i can drive there on the
pacific highway and it takes about 1 hour but ballina is one very nice
place to ride with plenty of bike paths and is flat and best of all it
is next to the beach.

i also collect vintage bicycles i have a 1969 SA S5 hub with two
cables one one side is the classic indicator chain and on the left
side is a shimano type push rod changer it pushes a thin rod into the
hub to change gears i have completely rebuilt it and it is a extremely
good hub.

Brandon.


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
<astronut1001@...> wrote:
>
> Brandon;
>
> I Googled Byron Bay and looked it up in my atlas.  Looks like a
> resort town about 70 Km south of Surfers Paradise.  The Google map
> also shows the surrounding towns.  Which is yours?  There is also a
> Wikipedia entry for Byron Bay I read.  Sounds like a nice area.
>
> Rich Wood
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> >
> > I couldn't agree more Rich and i live somewhere you haven't heard
> of so
> > i will say it is near Byron bay and its not outback terrain like
> most
> > movies show Australia its very nice here with the beach close and
> lots
> > of nice potholed roads .
> > and the weirdest thing is that on the riverbanks are bamboo so
> figure
> > that out [:-/]
> > anyway i haven't heard of the rohloff hub before i joined this
> group can
> > you put a pic of one on a bike i would like to see the setup.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> <astronut1001@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Brandon;
> > >
> > > I am American and live in Reno, Nevada.
> > >
> > > SA does do an 8 speed hub though the gear range is wierd
> compared to
> > > Shimano, SRAM and Rohloff gear hubs.
> > >
> > > Derailleur gear trains are still lighter than the best high gear
> > > count hubs, particularly the top end derailleur gear trains using
> > > lots of carbon fiber and titanium in addition to aluminum.
> Remember
> > > that in a Tour bike price is not a consideration and they have
> > > really top mechanics going over each bike with a microscope on a
> > > daily basis.
> > >
> > > IMO the strengths of a gear hub, properly designed and made, are
> > > long term dependability and much less susceptiblity to the
> effects
> > > of mud, dust and bad weather.  Also once initial cable stretch is
> > > out of the shifter cable they hold adjustment longer than
> > > derailleurs.
> > >
> > > Per the book Bicycling Science, and test figures on the Rohloff
> web
> > > site, the derailleur gear train is very slightly more efficient.
> > > This does vary however with the derailleur sprocket selection
> being
> > > used.
> > >
> > > A rear derailleur is very subject to damage from a fall or other
> > > impact from riding in rocky areas such as mountain bikers do
> > > routinely.  The latest gear hubs from SRAM, Shimano and Rohloff
> do
> > > not have parts which protrude like a derailleur gear train does.
> > > This makes them much less susceptible to damage in my opinion.
> > >
> > > Thorn Bicycles in England makes some really high end adventure
> and
> > > touring bikes.  Their designer is a strong proponent of the
> Rohloff
> > > hub.  He has used it for rough road touring in Australia,
> Tasmania
> > > and in South America.  Rides have included multiple trips over
> the
> > > Andes on dirt and gravel roads to altitudes close to 15,000 feet
> > > with no problems from the Rohloff hub.  It seems to be virtually
> > > unbreakable.  To me this is an area of use where a gear hub
> shines.
> > >
> > > Also better than derailleur gear trains for use in city riding
> and
> > > traffic due to the faster shifting and the ability to shift while
> > > stopped at traffic lights or other stops.  Just more user
> friendly
> > > overall in this environment.
> > >
> > > Rich Wood
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > > rogersbrandon96@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So Rich my hub is rare that's pretty good, thanks for that. so
> its
> > > a
> > > > close ratio hub that's alright considering i got it of some old
> > > rim.
> > > > Are you American?, if so is sturmey archer popular over there
> > > because
> > > > Australian bikes eg: malvern stars were made with SA hubs up
> til
> > > the
> > > > 1990s and rare Bmx bikes have them too.
> > > > Do you have any more info of why they swapped to derailleurs
> when
> > > > there is so much more potential in inner geared hubs?
> > > >
> > > > I would love to see a SA 10 speed inner geared hub put into
> > > production
> > > > and put on a brand new road bike used for the tour De France
> that
> > > > would prove how superior the inner geared hub is to
> derailleurs!
> > > >
> > > > Brandon.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Brandon;
> > > > >
> > > > > Based on the info I have seen what you have is a pretty rare
> > > Sturmey
> > > > > Archer hub.  Originally it was designed for sports use.
> Almost
> > > all
> > > > > British road competition at the time was time trials held on
> > > > > relatively flat courses and the AM looks to be designed for
> just
> > > > > such use with it's narrow range of gearing.
> > > > >
> > > > > At the time derailleur gearing was not popular in Britain.
> > > > > Considering the derailleurs available at the time quite
> > > > > understandable IMO.  When I lived in Pleasanton, CA I knew a
> > > kiwi
> > > > > who had ridden the tour in the late 50s or early 60s.  His
> > > > > description of the derailleur equipment of the time made it
> > > sound
> > > > > like it was pretty bad by current standards.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Suntour and Shimano development of wide range derailleurs
> > > and
> > > > > freewheels in the early period of mountain bike popularity
> > > > > enormously increased their capabilities.  They also developed
> > > > > freewheel tooth forms and chain sideplates which aided
> immensely
> > > in
> > > > > shifting performance.  They ended up putting the whole of the
> > > > > european derailleur manufacturers, except Campy and Sachs-
> > > Maillard,
> > > > > out of business.  Sachs is now SRAM and they and Campy seem
> to
> > > be
> > > > > the ony european derailleur suppliers left.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rich Wood
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > > > > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks Rich i was just curious to know about these gear
> ratios
> > > > > because
> > > > > > my lightweight road bike was becoming a bit boring so i
> laced
> > > and
> > > > > > trued my sturmey archer 1950s hub into the rim and then
> > > contacted
> > > > > my
> > > > > > friend who owns the same kind of bike just a different
> brand
> > > > > > and sorted out a place to meet for a race (on a flat)
> > > > > > and we both went flat out but i won by about 2 meters!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > which really surprised me after riding his bike i noticed
> mine
> > > > > wasn't
> > > > > > that smooth in gear ratios but provided high speed this
> was a
> > > > > hundred
> > > > > > meter race, my friend and me are both the same strength
> riders
> > > so i
> > > > > > rode his and he rode mine still my bike won by about 2
> meters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > my friends bike was in 8th gear at the rear and 3rd at the
> > > front
> > > > > and i
> > > > > > got to a point that it wouldn't go any faster whereas my
> hub
> > > just
> > > > > kept
> > > > > > going faster i live in Australia and the hub is unknown
> what
> > > bike
> > > > > it
> > > > > > came of i just found it on this bent up wheel on the side
> of
> > > the
> > > > > road.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brandon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > > > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brandon;
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here is a link to a article about the Sturmey Archer AM
> > > three
> > > > > speed
> > > > > > > hub which discusses it's ratios and gearing.  I found it
> > > after a
> > > > > > > minimal Google search.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/cyqlist/saam.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It appears that this is a close ratio hub so the gearing
> > > range
> > > > > > > provided is narrower than with the much more common AW
> hub.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rich Wood
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > > > > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Brandon;
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would note for comparison purposes on gearing that my
> > > > > Rohloff 14
> > > > > > > > speed hub Civia Highland has a low gear of 21" and a
> high
> > > of
> > > > > > > 110".
> > > > > > > > My Swobo Dixon with 9 speed SRAM hub has a low of 27"
> and
> > > a
> > > > > high
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > about 94".  Both are as delivered figures and have not
> > > been
> > > > > > > modified
> > > > > > > > by changing chain rings or sprockets.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Too high a high gear is rough on the knees.  Use of a
> high
> > > > > gear
> > > > > > > > higher than 100", except for downhill or tailwind use,
> > > should
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > confined to riders in excellent condition with good
> > > knees.
> > > > > > > Spinning
> > > > > > > > a lower gear at higher cadence is much easier on the
> > > joints
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > leg
> > > > > > > > muscles than straining in a higher gear.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you would like a discussion of the meaning of
> bicycle
> > > gear
> > > > > > > inches
> > > > > > > > just say so.  It is an antiquated system which IMO
> should
> > > be
> > > > > > > > replaced but many American cyclists are used to it,
> and so
> > > can
> > > > > > > > relate to it.  Europeans use a different system which
> > > seems to
> > > > > me
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > be more logical.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Rich Wood
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > > > > > > > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Brandon;
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The Sturmey Archer 3 speed has ratios of about .75 in
> > > first,
> > > > > 1.0
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > second and 1.33 in third.  Overall range from low to
> > > high is
> > > > > > > > 177%.
> > > > > > > > > This is for the standard AW version.  Over their 100+
> > > years
> > > > > > > > Sturmey
> > > > > > > > > Archer made many 3 speed hub varuations with various
> > > > > internal
> > > > > > > > ratios.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Overall drive ratio in each gear is still determined
> by
> > > > > > > chainring
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > sprocket sizes and can be varied over a wide range.
> > > > > Generally
> > > > > > > > > speaking three speed hub gearing is chosen to give a
> > > high
> > > > > gear
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > 80"
> > > > > > > > > to 85" in third or high gear.  This gives a low of
> > > around
> > > > > 45"
> > > > > > > > which is
> > > > > > > > > low enough to allow moderate to medium hill climbing,
> > > > > depending
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > rider's condition.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Current derailleur systems have ranges of about 250%
> to
> > > 300%
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > two
> > > > > > > > > chain ring road system and up to approximately 525%,
> and
> > > an
> > > > > > > > extreme of
> > > > > > > > > 600%, for a 3 chain ring wide ratio mountain bike
> > > derailleur
> > > > > > > > system.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The high gear on these systems is commonly chosen to
> be
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > 100" to
> > > > > > > > > 120" range.  Thus for the same pedalling cadence the
> > > > > derailleur
> > > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > > in high gear will provide greater speed.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > One reason for the popularity of the newer 7, 8, 9
> and
> > > 14
> > > > > speed
> > > > > > > > gear
> > > > > > > > > hub systems is the fact that they have total gear
> ranges
> > > > > > > > comparable to
> > > > > > > > > many derailleur systems.  The Shimano and Sturmey
> Archer
> > > 8
> > > > > > > speeds
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > in the 300% overall ratio range while the 9 speed
> SRAM
> > > hub
> > > > > has a
> > > > > > > > 340%
> > > > > > > > > range and the 14 speed Rohloff has a range of 526%.
> > > These
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > > more competitive with derailleur systems.  They have
> > > > > smalller
> > > > > > > > steps
> > > > > > > > > between gears than the 3 speed Sturmey Archer and
> > > greater
> > > > > > > overall
> > > > > > > > gear
> > > > > > > > > ranges.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > These units allow a lower low for easily climbing
> > > steeper
> > > > > hills
> > > > > > > > while
> > > > > > > > > also allowing a higher high for greater speed on the
> > > flat
> > > > > and/or
> > > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > pedalling down hill or with a tailwind.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > All 3 speed gear hubs currently made have similar
> > > ratios.
> > > > > All
> > > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > are basically derived from the original Sturmey
> Archer 3
> > > > > speed
> > > > > > > > unit
> > > > > > > > > introduced in 1902.  It was state of the art then but
> > > there
> > > > > has
> > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > major progress in both gear hubs and derailleurs
> since.
> > > By
> > > > > > > modern
> > > > > > > > > standards the 3 speed is considered to be good for
> > > > > reasonably
> > > > > > > flat
> > > > > > > > > terrain riding unless the rider is in excellent
> > > condition.
> > > > > From
> > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > ergonomics standpoint the range is considered quite
> > > marginal
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > jumps between ratios are too great.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Rich Wood
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > > > > > > > > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If i had my sturmey archer in 3rd gear what gear or
> > > ratio
> > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > sturmey archer be if compared to a derailleur
> system?
> > > > > > > > > > And would a sturmey archer 3 speed AM hub
> installed on
> > > a
> > > > > road
> > > > > > > > bike vs
> > > > > > > > > > a the same type of road bike with a 24 speed
> > > derailleur
> > > > > system
> > > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > > would win on a flat stretch of road with the same
> > > rider?
> > > > > > > > > > (I'm talking about gear ratio advantage)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Brandon
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Brandon;

Rohloff, Shimano, Sturmey Archer and SRAM all now have some hub
versions that can have brake discs mounted per their web sites.
Disc brake calipers still need special caliper mounting provisions
on the frame and front forks however.

Disc brakes are much better working than rim brakes in wet weather.
This is particularly true of rim brakes and the old steel rims, a
bad combination in the wet with most caliper brake pad materials.

Heavier than caliper brakes but no rim wear or worries about tires
overheating in long downhill descents.  Disc brakes are becoming
commoner on commuter and city bikes in the U.S. due to their better
wet weather performance.  Also very common on better mountain bikes.

If you take a look at the Sturmey Archer web site they still list 3,
5 and 8 speed hubs in quite a variety.  No idea of availability down
under however.  Here is a link to the hubs on the current SA web
site.

http://www.sturmey-archer.com/hubs.php

Rohloff does have an Aussie branch.  Here is a link to it.

http://www.rohloff.com.au/

Not nearly as complete as the Rohloff main site as some links seem
to be not functional on the Aussie site.  If you are truly
interested in Rohloff hubs go to the main site and download the
manual in PDF format, a total of about 132 pages.  It is in 3 parts
in PDF format.  Here is a link to their downloads page.  If nothing
else it is an interesting read if you are a technofreak.

http://www.rohloff.de/en/download/description/index.html#c1453

Rich Wood


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
<rogersbrandon96@...> wrote:
>
> My town is ballina i used to live in lismore and wow i didn't know
> they used disc brakes on inner geared hubs.
>
> The rohloff hub is pretty nice i can see why you like it a very
> amazing bit of machinery i wouldn't mind one myself.
>
> My hub didn't have wing nuts when i got it because it didn't have
any
> nuts on it so it could have had wing nuts it is made in England
and is
> genuine.
>
> I have a couple of sturmey archers i will put one on here have a
look
> in my Sturmey archer folder.
>
> Surfers paradise is a great place to ride i can drive there on the
> pacific highway and it takes about 1 hour but ballina is one very
nice
> place to ride with plenty of bike paths and is flat and best of
all it
> is next to the beach.
>
> i also collect vintage bicycles i have a 1969 SA S5 hub with two
> cables one one side is the classic indicator chain and on the left
> side is a shimano type push rod changer it pushes a thin rod into
the
> hub to change gears i have completely rebuilt it and it is a
extremely
> good hub.
>
> Brandon.
>
>

Disc brakes are expensive but effective on mountain bikes and yes i
would prefer to have disc brakes on my bike in the wet also have you
heard of the old S5 rich?, its a interesting hub used on 1970s
dragsters and touring bikes.
I would like a rohloff but they are from a bike review site $850!
probably worth it but with the same money i could buy a brand new
giant road bike and have a shimano nexus hub installed on it.

Brandon.



--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
<astronut1001@...> wrote:
>
> Brandon;
>
> Rohloff, Shimano, Sturmey Archer and SRAM all now have some hub
> versions that can have brake discs mounted per their web sites.
> Disc brake calipers still need special caliper mounting provisions
> on the frame and front forks however.
>
> Disc brakes are much better working than rim brakes in wet weather.
> This is particularly true of rim brakes and the old steel rims, a
> bad combination in the wet with most caliper brake pad materials.
>
> Heavier than caliper brakes but no rim wear or worries about tires
> overheating in long downhill descents.  Disc brakes are becoming
> commoner on commuter and city bikes in the U.S. due to their better
> wet weather performance.  Also very common on better mountain bikes.
>
> If you take a look at the Sturmey Archer web site they still list 3,
> 5 and 8 speed hubs in quite a variety.  No idea of availability down
> under however.  Here is a link to the hubs on the current SA web
> site.
>
> http://www.sturmey-archer.com/hubs.php
>
> Rohloff does have an Aussie branch.  Here is a link to it.
>
> http://www.rohloff.com.au/
>
> Not nearly as complete as the Rohloff main site as some links seem
> to be not functional on the Aussie site.  If you are truly
> interested in Rohloff hubs go to the main site and download the
> manual in PDF format, a total of about 132 pages.  It is in 3 parts
> in PDF format.  Here is a link to their downloads page.  If nothing
> else it is an interesting read if you are a technofreak.
>
> http://www.rohloff.de/en/download/description/index.html#c1453
>
> Rich Wood
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> >
> > My town is ballina i used to live in lismore and wow i didn't know
> > they used disc brakes on inner geared hubs.
> >
> > The rohloff hub is pretty nice i can see why you like it a very
> > amazing bit of machinery i wouldn't mind one myself.
> >
> > My hub didn't have wing nuts when i got it because it didn't have
> any
> > nuts on it so it could have had wing nuts it is made in England
> and is
> > genuine.
> >
> > I have a couple of sturmey archers i will put one on here have a
> look
> > in my Sturmey archer folder.
> >
> > Surfers paradise is a great place to ride i can drive there on the
> > pacific highway and it takes about 1 hour but ballina is one very
> nice
> > place to ride with plenty of bike paths and is flat and best of
> all it
> > is next to the beach.
> >
> > i also collect vintage bicycles i have a 1969 SA S5 hub with two
> > cables one one side is the classic indicator chain and on the left
> > side is a shimano type push rod changer it pushes a thin rod into
> the
> > hub to change gears i have completely rebuilt it and it is a
> extremely
> > good hub.
> >
> > Brandon.
> >
> >
>

Brandon;

Not sure if it is the same unit but the Sturmey Archer web site
still lists an S5 model gear hub.  Probably not as it looks like the
current S5 has a single cable control.  Heard of it but I have never
seen one.

With the weak U.S. dollar the Rohloff hub is now in the $1200 to
$1500 range here depending on configuration.

Basically I consider it to be the Campy Record or Shimano Dura Ace
hub equivalent or maybe, considering it's gear range, the Shimano
XTR of hubs.  By reputation more durable than any of the above
however.  According to a PDF on the Thorn bikes web site about use
of the hub, one owner has reportedly covered 190,000 Km on his
Rohloff hub without failure, not counting cables and output
sprockets I would presume.  Not sure how many derailleurs, casettes
and chainrings you would go through in that distance but I suspect a
lot.

When you look at the top end Shimano and Campy derailleur setups
with derailleurs, combined brake and shifter levers along with rear
hub and casette the Rohloff price does not appear too bad.  A recent
price check I did showed the Campy Record rear derailleur at over
$400 and the brifters at about $600 U.S.

I am thinking of getting the SRAM 5 speed hub and building a wheel
for my fixed gear bike frame.  I currently have the fixed gear wheel
and a older Sachs 3 speed wheel for it.  The SRAM unit is available
with the proper width to fit the narrow frame dropouts well.

Rich Wood


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
<rogersbrandon96@...> wrote:
>
> Disc brakes are expensive but effective on mountain bikes and yes i
> would prefer to have disc brakes on my bike in the wet also have
you
> heard of the old S5 rich?, its a interesting hub used on 1970s
> dragsters and touring bikes.
> I would like a rohloff but they are from a bike review site $850!
> probably worth it but with the same money i could buy a brand new
> giant road bike and have a shimano nexus hub installed on it.
>
> Brandon.
>
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> <astronut1001@> wrote:
> >
> > Brandon;
> >
> > Rohloff, Shimano, Sturmey Archer and SRAM all now have some hub
> > versions that can have brake discs mounted per their web sites.
> > Disc brake calipers still need special caliper mounting
provisions
> > on the frame and front forks however.
> >
> > Disc brakes are much better working than rim brakes in wet
weather.
> > This is particularly true of rim brakes and the old steel rims,
a
> > bad combination in the wet with most caliper brake pad
materials.
> >
> > Heavier than caliper brakes but no rim wear or worries about
tires
> > overheating in long downhill descents.  Disc brakes are becoming
> > commoner on commuter and city bikes in the U.S. due to their
better
> > wet weather performance.  Also very common on better mountain
bikes.
> >
> > If you take a look at the Sturmey Archer web site they still
list 3,
> > 5 and 8 speed hubs in quite a variety.  No idea of availability
down
> > under however.  Here is a link to the hubs on the current SA web
> > site.
> >
> > http://www.sturmey-archer.com/hubs.php
> >
> > Rohloff does have an Aussie branch.  Here is a link to it.
> >
> > http://www.rohloff.com.au/
> >
> > Not nearly as complete as the Rohloff main site as some links
seem
> > to be not functional on the Aussie site.  If you are truly
> > interested in Rohloff hubs go to the main site and download the
> > manual in PDF format, a total of about 132 pages.  It is in 3
parts
> > in PDF format.  Here is a link to their downloads page.  If
nothing
> > else it is an interesting read if you are a technofreak.
> >
> > http://www.rohloff.de/en/download/description/index.html#c1453
> >
> > Rich Wood
> >
> >
> > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> > >
> > > My town is ballina i used to live in lismore and wow i didn't
know
> > > they used disc brakes on inner geared hubs.
> > >
> > > The rohloff hub is pretty nice i can see why you like it a very
> > > amazing bit of machinery i wouldn't mind one myself.
> > >
> > > My hub didn't have wing nuts when i got it because it didn't
have
> > any
> > > nuts on it so it could have had wing nuts it is made in
England
> > and is
> > > genuine.
> > >
> > > I have a couple of sturmey archers i will put one on here have
a
> > look
> > > in my Sturmey archer folder.
> > >
> > > Surfers paradise is a great place to ride i can drive there on
the
> > > pacific highway and it takes about 1 hour but ballina is one
very
> > nice
> > > place to ride with plenty of bike paths and is flat and best
of
> > all it
> > > is next to the beach.
> > >
> > > i also collect vintage bicycles i have a 1969 SA S5 hub with
two
> > > cables one one side is the classic indicator chain and on the
left
> > > side is a shimano type push rod changer it pushes a thin rod
into
> > the
> > > hub to change gears i have completely rebuilt it and it is a
> > extremely
> > > good hub.
> > >
> > > Brandon.
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Roger;

Thanks for the old SA and bicycle advertisement photos.  Based on
the ladys clothing and hair looks like the one bike advertising
photo is from the 1920s.  Other members should check them out.

BTW if you want to upload higher resolution photos of anything then
they can be uploaded to the Files area.  Yahoo does not resize
photos uploaded to the Files area as it does to those uploaded to
the Photos area.  Not too large though as some of us still use dial-
up internet connections.

Under 5 pounds seems cheap for the bike but you have to remember
that at the time that was $25 or a couple of weeks wages minimum for
many working class people, maybe more in England.

You mentioned your collection includes 15 gear hubs.  What models
and how many are in working condition?  I understand that parts are
very scarce for some of the older models of SA hubs.

Rich Wood

Well rich all of my 15 hubs work 10 of them are on various bikes of
mine and the other five are for..... not to sure i just like inner
geared hubs!
i have two more SA hubs but i have them pulled apart for spares and so
on where i live there is a lot of old bikes so it isnt too hard
finding a hub but parts like you said are pretty rare i do have out of
those fifteen mentioned 3 shimano hubs and spares the older 1970s
model not the nexus shimano and the rest are Sturmey archer hubs.
My oldest is a 1940s 2 speed its hiding somewhere in my shed and my
newest hub is a 1987 AW model.

Brandon.


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
<astronut1001@...> wrote:
>
> Roger;
>
> Thanks for the old SA and bicycle advertisement photos.  Based on
> the ladys clothing and hair looks like the one bike advertising
> photo is from the 1920s.  Other members should check them out.
>
> BTW if you want to upload higher resolution photos of anything then
> they can be uploaded to the Files area.  Yahoo does not resize
> photos uploaded to the Files area as it does to those uploaded to
> the Photos area.  Not too large though as some of us still use dial-
> up internet connections.
>
> Under 5 pounds seems cheap for the bike but you have to remember
> that at the time that was $25 or a couple of weeks wages minimum for
> many working class people, maybe more in England.
>
> You mentioned your collection includes 15 gear hubs.  What models
> and how many are in working condition?  I understand that parts are
> very scarce for some of the older models of SA hubs.
>
> Rich Wood
>

I am putting a picture of my S5 on here.

Brandon.
--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
<astronut1001@...> wrote:
>
> Brandon;
>
> Not sure if it is the same unit but the Sturmey Archer web site
> still lists an S5 model gear hub.  Probably not as it looks like the
> current S5 has a single cable control.  Heard of it but I have never
> seen one.
>
> With the weak U.S. dollar the Rohloff hub is now in the $1200 to
> $1500 range here depending on configuration.
>
> Basically I consider it to be the Campy Record or Shimano Dura Ace
> hub equivalent or maybe, considering it's gear range, the Shimano
> XTR of hubs.  By reputation more durable than any of the above
> however.  According to a PDF on the Thorn bikes web site about use
> of the hub, one owner has reportedly covered 190,000 Km on his
> Rohloff hub without failure, not counting cables and output
> sprockets I would presume.  Not sure how many derailleurs, casettes
> and chainrings you would go through in that distance but I suspect a
> lot.
>
> When you look at the top end Shimano and Campy derailleur setups
> with derailleurs, combined brake and shifter levers along with rear
> hub and casette the Rohloff price does not appear too bad.  A recent
> price check I did showed the Campy Record rear derailleur at over
> $400 and the brifters at about $600 U.S.
>
> I am thinking of getting the SRAM 5 speed hub and building a wheel
> for my fixed gear bike frame.  I currently have the fixed gear wheel
> and a older Sachs 3 speed wheel for it.  The SRAM unit is available
> with the proper width to fit the narrow frame dropouts well.
>
> Rich Wood
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> >
> > Disc brakes are expensive but effective on mountain bikes and yes i
> > would prefer to have disc brakes on my bike in the wet also have
> you
> > heard of the old S5 rich?, its a interesting hub used on 1970s
> > dragsters and touring bikes.
> > I would like a rohloff but they are from a bike review site $850!
> > probably worth it but with the same money i could buy a brand new
> > giant road bike and have a shimano nexus hub installed on it.
> >
> > Brandon.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Brandon;
> > >
> > > Rohloff, Shimano, Sturmey Archer and SRAM all now have some hub
> > > versions that can have brake discs mounted per their web sites.
> > > Disc brake calipers still need special caliper mounting
> provisions
> > > on the frame and front forks however.
> > >
> > > Disc brakes are much better working than rim brakes in wet
> weather.
> > > This is particularly true of rim brakes and the old steel rims,
> a
> > > bad combination in the wet with most caliper brake pad
> materials.
> > >
> > > Heavier than caliper brakes but no rim wear or worries about
> tires
> > > overheating in long downhill descents.  Disc brakes are becoming
> > > commoner on commuter and city bikes in the U.S. due to their
> better
> > > wet weather performance.  Also very common on better mountain
> bikes.
> > >
> > > If you take a look at the Sturmey Archer web site they still
> list 3,
> > > 5 and 8 speed hubs in quite a variety.  No idea of availability
> down
> > > under however.  Here is a link to the hubs on the current SA web
> > > site.
> > >
> > > http://www.sturmey-archer.com/hubs.php
> > >
> > > Rohloff does have an Aussie branch.  Here is a link to it.
> > >
> > > http://www.rohloff.com.au/
> > >
> > > Not nearly as complete as the Rohloff main site as some links
> seem
> > > to be not functional on the Aussie site.  If you are truly
> > > interested in Rohloff hubs go to the main site and download the
> > > manual in PDF format, a total of about 132 pages.  It is in 3
> parts
> > > in PDF format.  Here is a link to their downloads page.  If
> nothing
> > > else it is an interesting read if you are a technofreak.
> > >
> > > http://www.rohloff.de/en/download/description/index.html#c1453
> > >
> > > Rich Wood
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> > > <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My town is ballina i used to live in lismore and wow i didn't
> know
> > > > they used disc brakes on inner geared hubs.
> > > >
> > > > The rohloff hub is pretty nice i can see why you like it a very
> > > > amazing bit of machinery i wouldn't mind one myself.
> > > >
> > > > My hub didn't have wing nuts when i got it because it didn't
> have
> > > any
> > > > nuts on it so it could have had wing nuts it is made in
> England
> > > and is
> > > > genuine.
> > > >
> > > > I have a couple of sturmey archers i will put one on here have
> a
> > > look
> > > > in my Sturmey archer folder.
> > > >
> > > > Surfers paradise is a great place to ride i can drive there on
> the
> > > > pacific highway and it takes about 1 hour but ballina is one
> very
> > > nice
> > > > place to ride with plenty of bike paths and is flat and best
> of
> > > all it
> > > > is next to the beach.
> > > >
> > > > i also collect vintage bicycles i have a 1969 SA S5 hub with
> two
> > > > cables one one side is the classic indicator chain and on the
> left
> > > > side is a shimano type push rod changer it pushes a thin rod
> into
> > > the
> > > > hub to change gears i have completely rebuilt it and it is a
> > > extremely
> > > > good hub.
> > > >
> > > > Brandon.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Brandon;

Sounds like you have a real shortage of bikes ;-)  Any derailleur
ones?  My oldest bike so far is a Colnago with Campy Super Record
gruppo from the early 1980s era as near as I can tell.  So I do have
derailleur bikes too.

I know of a Dawes available locally cheap with cottered cranks and
period derailleur setup, probably from the 1960s.  Definitely needs
refinishing as the finish is shot.  Looks like it spent some winters
out in the weather.  I may get it to convert to gear hub or single
speed.  Dawes frames of that era are supposed to be good, and
comfortable riding, but they were generally fitted with lower end
components I have read.

I have a 1950s Sturmey Archer AW that would be appropriate to the
Dawes but being an older fart I prefer wider overall gear ratios.

Keep an eye out locally for a SA ASC hub.  This is a very rare bird
I understand.  It was a fixed gear 3 speed close ratio hub.  No
freewheel provided but it did allow 3 ratios in fixed gear mode.  I
understand they bring healthy amounts on ebay when listed there.  If
you find one or more in working condition I would be interested too.

Rich Wood


--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
<rogersbrandon96@...> wrote:
>
> Well rich all of my 15 hubs work 10 of them are on various bikes of
> mine and the other five are for..... not to sure i just like inner
> geared hubs!
> i have two more SA hubs but i have them pulled apart for spares
and so
> on where i live there is a lot of old bikes so it isnt too hard
> finding a hub but parts like you said are pretty rare i do have
out of
> those fifteen mentioned 3 shimano hubs and spares the older 1970s
> model not the nexus shimano and the rest are Sturmey archer hubs.
> My oldest is a 1940s 2 speed its hiding somewhere in my shed and my
> newest hub is a 1987 AW model.
>
> Brandon.
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> <astronut1001@> wrote:
> >
> > Roger;
> >
> > Thanks for the old SA and bicycle advertisement photos.  Based
on
> > the ladys clothing and hair looks like the one bike advertising
> > photo is from the 1920s.  Other members should check them out.
> >
> > BTW if you want to upload higher resolution photos of anything
then
> > they can be uploaded to the Files area.  Yahoo does not resize
> > photos uploaded to the Files area as it does to those uploaded
to
> > the Photos area.  Not too large though as some of us still use
dial-
> > up internet connections.
> >
> > Under 5 pounds seems cheap for the bike but you have to remember
> > that at the time that was $25 or a couple of weeks wages minimum
for
> > many working class people, maybe more in England.
> >
> > You mentioned your collection includes 15 gear hubs.  What
models
> > and how many are in working condition?  I understand that parts
are
> > very scarce for some of the older models of SA hubs.
> >
> > Rich Wood
> >
>

If i find a ASC hub your going to be the First to know
and i have a range of bikes, 6 with derailleurs about 2 BMXs and some
old single speeds.
I think i have about 30 bikes and a couple projects.

i am not lying i will take some pics to prove it when i tell people i
have about 30 bikes they say yeah right! or bulls*$t so you can belive
me or not but i should open a bike shop!

I do local repairs but no repairs on rare bikes just new ones.

most of my bicycles that have derailleurs are at the most 20yrs old.

Thanks Rich

Brandon.



--- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
<astronut1001@...> wrote:
>
> Brandon;
>
> Sounds like you have a real shortage of bikes ;-)  Any derailleur
> ones?  My oldest bike so far is a Colnago with Campy Super Record
> gruppo from the early 1980s era as near as I can tell.  So I do have
> derailleur bikes too.
>
> I know of a Dawes available locally cheap with cottered cranks and
> period derailleur setup, probably from the 1960s.  Definitely needs
> refinishing as the finish is shot.  Looks like it spent some winters
> out in the weather.  I may get it to convert to gear hub or single
> speed.  Dawes frames of that era are supposed to be good, and
> comfortable riding, but they were generally fitted with lower end
> components I have read.
>
> I have a 1950s Sturmey Archer AW that would be appropriate to the
> Dawes but being an older fart I prefer wider overall gear ratios.
>
> Keep an eye out locally for a SA ASC hub.  This is a very rare bird
> I understand.  It was a fixed gear 3 speed close ratio hub.  No
> freewheel provided but it did allow 3 ratios in fixed gear mode.  I
> understand they bring healthy amounts on ebay when listed there.  If
> you find one or more in working condition I would be interested too.
>
> Rich Wood
>
>
> --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "brandon"
> <rogersbrandon96@> wrote:
> >
> > Well rich all of my 15 hubs work 10 of them are on various bikes of
> > mine and the other five are for..... not to sure i just like inner
> > geared hubs!
> > i have two more SA hubs but i have them pulled apart for spares
> and so
> > on where i live there is a lot of old bikes so it isnt too hard
> > finding a hub but parts like you said are pretty rare i do have
> out of
> > those fifteen mentioned 3 shimano hubs and spares the older 1970s
> > model not the nexus shimano and the rest are Sturmey archer hubs.
> > My oldest is a 1940s 2 speed its hiding somewhere in my shed and my
> > newest hub is a 1987 AW model.
> >
> > Brandon.
> >
> >
> > --- In Geared_hub_bikes@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Wood"
> > <astronut1001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Roger;
> > >
> > > Thanks for the old SA and bicycle advertisement photos.  Based
> on
> > > the ladys clothing and hair looks like the one bike advertising
> > > photo is from the 1920s.  Other members should check them out.
> > >
> > > BTW if you want to upload higher resolution photos of anything
> then
> > > they can be uploaded to the Files area.  Yahoo does not resize
> > > photos uploaded to the Files area as it does to those uploaded
> to
> > > the Photos area.  Not too large though as some of us still use
> dial-
> > > up internet connections.
> > >
> > > Under 5 pounds seems cheap for the bike but you have to remember
> > > that at the time that was $25 or a couple of weeks wages minimum
> for
> > > many working class people, maybe more in England.
> > >
> > > You mentioned your collection includes 15 gear hubs.  What
> models
> > > and how many are in working condition?  I understand that parts
> are
> > > very scarce for some of the older models of SA hubs.
> > >
> > > Rich Wood
> > >
> >
>