How goes all, happy holidays.

Mike
Alaska

http://groups.google.com/group/abrigon-world Gaming World - high
tech or magic?
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Abrigon-World /  Gaming
World - high tech or magic?
http://groups.google.com/group/adulthumor-l Humor
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adulthumor-l/ Humor
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/StargruntsOOC/  Star Ships
or Troopers on distant worlds
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Poetry-L/  Poetry

Abrigon is supposed to be about a gaming world of mine, where
the decendents of the spheres builder, using tech from their
ancestors, now rule as Gods, but how far have they come and
their imperium? High tech that looks a lot like magic, depends
on who is looking at  it, or using it.

Any comments?

Mike

________________________________________________________________________
1. Neural interfaces, here we come!
     Posted by: "Eric Funk"
eric_funk_anti_spam_this_is_a_real_email_addres spectre_gurps
     Date: Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:38 pm ((PST))


http://www.pinktentacle.com/2008/12/scientists-extract-images-directly-from-brai\
n/


It seems to imply being able to read memories, but the stated
facts and
diagrams point to monitoring optical input.


-
Eric Funk
"Knowledge Brings Fear" -- Motto of Mars University, Futurama

NEW YORK â?" Majel Barrett Roddenberry, the widow of "Star Trek" creator Gene
Roddenberry, has died. She was 76. Roddenberry, an actress who appeared in
numerous "Star Trek" TV shows and movies, died Thursday of leukemia at her home
in Bel-Air, Calif., her representative said.

At Roddenberry's side were family friends and her only son, Eugene Roddenberry
Jr. Gene Roddenberry died in 1991.  Her romance with Roddenberry earned her the
title "The First Lady of Star
Trek." A fixture in the "Star Trek" franchise, her roles included Nurse
Christine Chapel in the original "Star Trek," Lwaxana Troi in "Star Trek: The
Next Generation" and the voice of the USS Enterprise computer in almost every
spin-off of the 1966 cult series. She recently reprised the voice role in the
upcoming "Star Trek" film directed by J.J. Abrams.

(Yes, I am a Trek Head. She passes in Cali but reported in New York, go figure)

Will see how it all goes when she is Senator or President in 2012 or so some
seem to think it will happen? Her vs Hillary?

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike DiBaggio" <illuminarch@...>
To: <Future-History-L@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Future-History-L] Alaskas Governor Sarah Pallin picked as John
McCains VP running mate


I'm shocked to hear that Alaska has a woman governor. How'd you let that happen?

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Abrigon Gusiq <abrigon@...> wrote:
> WOW..
>
> Wild, if you have not heard, yeppers its true.
>
> Now what does this mean for Alaska and the nation?
>
> Mike
> Alaska
>
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

How green is green power? Namely how to make the items for it, and then use and
more importantly to dispose or better yet recyle it?

Here in Alaska, insulation is a major thing, how well is things insulated but
also how to dispose of it once it becomes useless/needs to be replaced/or found
to be dangerous such as with asbestos.

Wind power is not forever, after all it is based on the planet moving, and solar
radiation.

Solar Hotwater? Hum.. okay. Similar to how things should have been done at a
local airport. They did not put the building in line with the major path of the
sun, and it has large windows. So for most of the year the building it being 
heated by other source of power than solar direct from the sun.

Thermal, how much of the solar radiation is converted into thermal and then goes
into the atmosphere to be captured by green house gases?

Breeding, how much can we cut back the amount of people we are breeding? More
people, more resource they need, more space for living room, and so on. How to
live with in our means and be truely human and not so bound to normal animal
breeding cycles?

Some 50,000 years ago, humanity had some sort of population crash or so I have
read, going from a major population to some 10% of the original number before
what ever happened?

From Cradle to Grave is a common term used in chemicals, but what about tech and
things we use? Such as Solar Panels?

Solar usage, the Chinese and Feng Shui has some ideas there, the placing of
things, to use the least amount of energy to do things?

Nice thing about solar, wind or like, is you can use the extra power you
generate to sell to the local power grid, and even have freedom, but ...

Maybe we need to start working on ways and means to live closer while trying to
maintain the rights and freedoms we have worked hard for? Privacy for on?

I wonder how much power we could generate from all the hot air that the US
Congress and President generates?

Mike
------
http://groups.google.com/group/abrigon-world
http://groups.google.com/group/adulthumor-l

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adulthumor-l/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Abrigon-World/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/StargruntsOOC/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Poetry-L/

I suspect with the current Israeli inspired war, that our troops will not be
getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan any time soon?

Hamas//Hezbollah needs to be punished and dealt with, but so does Israel and I
suspect with our drawing things down in Iraq to be part of why the whole events
have been happening. Many of the weapons we find in Iraq, I suspect are going to
Hamas in Palestine, so ... will see.. But where is the money for them coming
from? Saudi or who else? Not just Iran.. But does this excuse Israel from acting
as they have of late? I do not think so. Sorry, some of the actions they have
been doing, borders on actions that resemble tactics of the Nazis during WW2.

How this effects us here in Alaska? Well, how soon will the soliders, airmen,
Marines and sailors stationed here tha are deployed will be coming home? As well
as any fall out from the war? Not just in Iraq/Afghanistan, but also possible
actions in Iran, Sudan and southern Africa. Such as the Pirates operating off
the coast of Somalia, a nation we abandoned 15 years ago? After all especially
the local Army is the "fire brigade" or one of them for the Pacific and beyond?

Will see how things go with China.. Its up and coming and soon to be a world
power, if not already. After all they just sent a flortilla to the coast of
Somalia to help deal with the Pirates, which is not a thing for defemce but
force projection and playing a role on the world scene.

Now to see if we can attract Chinese tourists?

Mike

PS: Happy Hannakah.

http://groups.google.com/group/abrigon-world
http://groups.google.com/group/adulthumor-l
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adulthumor-l/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Abrigon-World/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/StargruntsOOC/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Poetry-L/

Outland is a good place to game, mining colony and control of the work force,
but more like a classic union bursting or riot control, but .. Would be
interesting how to keep the miners working if the government/law sided on the
company? How to get weapons, but also how to keep the miners from arming and
resisting? Strike breakers and more?

Somethings in a peacekeeping mission would be easy or could be. Be at peace or
we will orbitally bombard you with asteroids until you cease or ..

Higher nature such as computer and like crime? Manifests can be forged, oddly
even better and faster with computers..
Such as how often people get arrested cause someone did an OPPS, and typed the
wrong SSN? or drivers number, and then how to correct the problem?

Jedis and like, good for doing more than just light shows, such as "he is lying"
or "he is not who he says his papers say he is"  or ... We already have the
portable hand scanners, or try to get on an US  Army fort with out being
scanned.. Retinal and like are already here but not as easy to use as finger
print (Check your lap top for one?).

Peace keeping, much like keeping the peace, to keep more than one party from
slaughtering the other, or trying to..

What might happen again in the middle east between Israel and its neighbors. Or
peace making, if Israel or its neighbors don't stop fighting..

Mike


1b. Re: Peace keeping in the future world?
     Posted by: "joe mckeon" diafanusjoda
     Date: Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:52 am ((PST))

Do you mean like the movie Outland with Sean Connery?

I would think security would be tighter in space early on, with every cargo and
person catalogued by computer, so illegal activity would have to be of a higher
nature, and not things like petty theft.

If you mean more like a Star Trek or Star Wars setting, again, technology would
seem to support alot of survaillance and the ability to scan with hand held
devices for illicit goods. Cooperation between local law enforcement and another
planet law enforce would be handled through some sort of future InterPol.

Joe
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."- The
Doctor- Doctor Who



----- Original Message ----
> From: Abrigon Gusiq <abrigon@...>
> To: stargruntsooc@yahoogroups.com; blood-and-Space@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 10:32:48 PM
> Subject: [Blood-and-Space] Peace keeping in the future world?
>
> How to do peace keeping in a future in space..
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Mike
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/abrigon-world
> http://groups.google.com/group/adulthumor-l
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adulthumor-l/
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Abrigon-World/
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/StargruntsOOC/
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Poetry-L/

Yes, depends on local contacts, compacts, treaties and such. Much like how when
you have more than one police force or like in an area, they have a compact or
letter of aggreement on helping each other out if needed.

Locally we have State Troopers, University Police, Air Port Police, Fairbanks
Police, Fort Wainwright Police, Military Police, Security Forces (Air Force), 
North Pole Police and others. Depending on area and needs, they work together,
each with their home turf but ..Also limits, such as MP/Security Forces normally
do not go off base/post, unless called to, since they are military and have
limits to when military can be used for civilian law enforcement. Yes there is
limits, such as when someone flees off post/base and the MPs and like are in
pursuit..And yes there is other agencies around, from TSA, Customs, FBI and
such. Even Coast Guard (not normally local).  Forgot the US Marshal service and
Secret as well, and CID.

Check out the US Revenue Service, its not the ancestor of the IRS, hut more like
the ancestor of the US Coast Guard, it combined with the Light House Service
back c.1900 to form the Coast Guard.

Something more like that for law enforcement? The USRS Bear a cutter used to
patrol the coast of Alaska, searching for Smugglers, pirates, illegal fising,
and more. Not sure if they ever seen action against the CSS Arkansas or Alabama,
one of them was hunting whaling ships during the US Civil War.

Also they would transport Marshals and Judges and bring prisoners back to
federal or like prison and more.. Also I remember also the mail?

Mike

Gen Smedley Butler USMC a man who said his job was the USMC and not politics..
Was approched by several persons to over throw FDRs government, he then turned
them in. He hated FDR, but he was the President for good or worse. Good thing
was the Supreme Court stood up and said "No these things are wrong" as they are
supposed to do when a president goes to far. Balance of power!



1c. Re: Peace keeping in the future world?
     Posted by: "Clay"  sportsmovieguy
     Date: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:44 am ((PST))

Tons...

It would depend upon the setting. However, you can look back into American
History as the west was opening up for settlements and exploration and take a
cue from there.

Many settlements handled their own brand of (in)justice... while some had some
sort of law enforcement figure.

However, if the peacekeeping you're thinking of is more along the lines of what
we are trying to do currently in other parts of the world... use those as an
example or think of having a nearby military post (government or privately
owned) nearby important settlements or areas that have local unrest.

George

  "[War] is dressed into speeches about patriotism, love of country, and "we must
all put our shoulders to the wheel," but the profits jump and leap and skyrocket
- and are safely pocketed." - Smedley Butler, retired as a Major General of the
U.S. Marine Corps in 1931 and was awarded two congressional medals of honor and
the distinguished service medal.


http://groups.google.com/group/abrigon-world
http://groups.google.com/group/adulthumor-l

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adulthumor-l/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Abrigon-World/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/StargruntsOOC/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Poetry-L/

Army or Gorts or mindless automatons or worse, self rightious people? Ogres and
what else? We are Borg or ..

Its one of the tragedies of the Jedi, they was almost as bad as those they said
they was fighting against?

Who appointed them to be judge, jury and executioner?

Or just law enforcement? Theocratically in ways? After all you had the Jedi
Temple, oddly in was on a world almost devoid of life? other than sentient ones,
but what about parks and wild life?

1d. Re: Peace keeping in the future world?
     Posted by: "Paul W. King"  pkingdnd
     Date: Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:37 am ((PST))

> How to do peace keeping in a future in space..
>
> Any ideas?

I just watched the original "The Day the Earth Stood Still." You could
have a "race" of robots to destroy anyone who practices agression.  :)

I dread to see an army of Gorts.

Paul W. King


http://groups.google.com/group/abrigon-world
http://groups.google.com/group/adulthumor-l

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adulthumor-l/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Abrigon-World/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/StargruntsOOC/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Poetry-L/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_hell

Read, its why many popular books and like never make it to the big screen or
anything.

Mike

http://groups.google.com/group/abrigon-world
http://groups.google.com/group/adulthumor-l

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adulthumor-l/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Abrigon-World/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/StargruntsOOC/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Poetry-L/

Anyone seen the BBC of late about the crisis in the Balkans, namely cause of
Russian and Ukraining problems, they are waging a resource war, and Bulgaria
seems to be paying for it..

Makes me wonder how soon we will be doing peace keeping in Nigeria for the oil
there?

Mike

http://groups.google.com/group/abrigon-world
http://groups.google.com/group/adulthumor-l

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adulthumor-l/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Abrigon-World/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/StargruntsOOC/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Poetry-L/

Any one notice the gas plums that are burning, and how much they put out when it
comes to heat and power?

Mike

TOPIC: "The Future of Human Spaceflight"
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.space.policy/t/aaa17ae4d62b1d5c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 11 2009 7:15Â pm
From: "Martha Adams"


"Quadibloc" <> wrote in message
news:a6272902-67cd-4207-a2cb-935ba74b9ccc@....
On Jan 10, 3:00 am, jacob navia <ja...@...> wrote:

> The technology for living in space is not here yet. We need

> o To be able to resist to mutations and DNA damage much better than
> now. Space is full of radiation that is lethal to our bodies as
> they are now.

> This can be solved by mdifying and enhancing our genetic repair
> mechanism to be more efficient. As a byproduct of this research
> we would have a cure for cancer, since many cancers are just
> genetic repair mechanism problems.

> o To develop a closed ecological system that can sustain itself
> with solar energy in space. We need to develop photosynthesis
> in vacuum, i.e. plants that can resist and thrive in vacuum.

> This needs (again) some genetical know how. We need a skin that
> is able to resist vacuum AND be transparent for our plants.

We don't need either of those things.

http://www.quadibloc.com/science/spaint.htm

Earth exists in space just fine without those technologies - and so
all we need to do, even if it's less efficient, is to duplicate Earth
in space.

We can't live in vacuum ourselves, and if we need air for ourselves,
why can't we also put our plants within the air?

As for radiation, we can get rock from the Moon or the asteroids until
we have as much shielding around us in space as the Earth's atmosphere
provides us on Earth.

John Savard

========================================================

This touches the very interesting question of, when people live
off-Terra, how will they do it?  My own feeling is, the human race in
space will dig and tunnel a lot.  My scheme for a human settlement in
space is, it's made up of a few to many oversize tunacan habs, sized for
about 120 people each, and placed down in the ground of a larger body or
inside a smaller body.  The habs will be built and interconnected so
that in sets of 2 or 3, they are able to self-sustain for up to months,
in case of a disaster.  I see some nice utopian schemes around, very
attractive, but I think people in space won't build that way because 1)
more costly and harder-to-make materials required; 2) a network of habs
is more disaster resistant than is a single large installation.  I
expect the building material for the lifespaces shells to be riveted
soft iron or soft aluminum.

Us Terrans here on Terra's hospitable surface, think that out on the
surface is the way to live.  It is, *on Terra.*  But off Terra, I expect
humans to go more or less subterranean.  It's interesting to ask, will
they then over generations, become Morlocks?  To which my responding
question would be, if you think there's risk of that, how would you
prevent it going that way?

Titeotwawki -- mha  [sci.space.policy  2009 Jan 11]







== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 11 2009 9:37Â pm
From: Quadibloc


On Jan 11, 8:15Â pm, "Martha Adams" <mh...@...> wrote:
> But off Terra, I expect
> humans to go more or less subterranean.

I expect that too:

the bottom of my page at

http://www.quadibloc.com/science/spa02.htm

shows one possibility.

>Â It's interesting to ask, will
> they then over generations, become Morlocks? Â To which my responding
> question would be, if you think there's risk of that, how would you
> prevent it going that way?

I agree that 'utopian' schemes which require extra effort to build
habitat space aren't likely to be followed. Space colonists will face
limits on their time and effort, and will not exert extra effort to
build fancier habitats than they require.

The scheme illustrated on my page probably is a little 'utopian',
since it envisages the construction of gigantic underground domes,
high enough that trees can grow in them to full height. At first, the
domes would probably be a bit smaller, and housing might be dug from
tunnels leading from the domes rather than in the form of buildings
built inside the domes - where food is grown.

John Savard

http://groups.google.com/group/abrigon-world
http://groups.google.com/group/adulthumor-l

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adulthumor-l/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Abrigon-World/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/StargruntsOOC/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Poetry-L/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Winchell Chung" <nyrath@...>
To: <sfconsim-l@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 5:52 AM
Subject: [sfconsim-l] l] Re: Space and why move to it?


--- In sfconsim-l@yahoogroups.com, "mechdan" <mechdan@...>
wrote:
> Instead of living "under" the sea, you could live "on" it.
> Most of
> the concepts for ocean colonization I've seen involve floating
> on
> it, rather than living under it.

Yes, the first stage of Marshall Savage's Millennial Project was
to
create a floating island nation. They supposedly could exploit
the
temperature differential between the ocean floor and ocean
surface to
magically produce vast quantities of cheap green electricity.
This
alleged electricity was to be used to precipitate minerals out
of
seawater, which was the raw construction material for the
floating island.

I dunno, using trillions of watts of power to make a fragile
island
composed of sodium chloride and chalk seems like a lot of effort
for a
shoddy product. Or a sales pitch aimed at starry eyed idealists
whose
brains shut down as soon as they hear the word "green" or
"ecological".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millennial_Project:_Colonizing_the_Galaxy_in_Ei\
ght_Easy_Steps

> I see Freedom Ship as either an example of Libertarian
> idealism gone
> stupid, or a big scam whose target victim would be gullible
> libertarians and other anti-tax ideologues (who would believe
> that
> there would be a large number of potential customers desperate
> to
> escape the Clinton socialist tax state).  The underlying
> concept is
> that the tenants would be so averse to paying taxes that
> instead of
> paying a cent in taxes, they'd rather spend tens of thousands
> of
> dollars per year on rent.  (Never mind that everything else
> will cost
> more on a resource-less island that needs to import
> everything...the
> magic of an unfettered free market will cause economic
> prosperity.)
>
> Now, one of your idealistic SF-tropes is the ideal of space
> colonization as a path to creation of a libertarian free
> society.  But
> sadly, the reality is that space colonization is a wee bit
> more
> expensive than ocean colonization.  If Freedom Ship can't
> work,
> economically, then how is Freedom Space Colony supposed to
> work?

Well, I have seen proposals that were far more cynical. The idea
is to
expand upon gambling casinos located on boats, off shore data
havens,
numbered Swiss bank accounts, and tax shelters in the Virgin
Islands.
You make a large orbital space colony, manage to get it legally
recognized as a sovereign nation, then make everything legal.

Mafia gangsters and strong men dictators plundering their
nations
would have a safe place to bank their ill-gotten gains, wealthy
but
bored rich people could go and indulge in any illegal drug or
sexual
perversion they wished, powerful corporations and politicians
could
use the database facilities to store sensitive information out
of the
reach of subpoenas.

It would be quite the money maker.


------------------------------------

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SFCONSIM-L web page --
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http://www.popsci.com/popsci/flat/bown/2007/green/item_59.html

Was wondering if you all seen this months Pop Sci?

About the new way to make solar cells. Also embedded electronics
in a flexible media to allow for more flex of circuit boards.

But also check out things on how new Air Force jets are not
painting but they use polymer or something like material, sort
of like duct  tape or more like stipping used in how they do
some cars?

Farming with out dry land, well, how much farming is done in
China and like in swamps? Same with the bayou and like of
Louisianna and Vietnam?

I wonder if there is a porous plastic or like that can be used
to relagate what O2 is taken in, or CO2 is given out, so that
you can put "farms" in a bubble in the ocean?

Porous much like how fish gills work?

Focused Solar Cells and what else?

http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-01/new-york-transform-land-strip-\
eco-haven
Eco-havens in New York City?

Also articles on homemade solar panels, so you do not have to
kiss someone from Texas to get energy?

http://www.popsci.com/category/tags/design
http://www.solarandwind4me.com/solarpanels5.php?apid=A100067&kwd=solar%20panels&\
gclid=CPX9sd2ur5gCFRBbagodkjVTTw
http://www.buildsolarpanels.net/?id=GSS921&gclid=CIK0jdqur5gCFRIcawodQz_rUg

Now if someone can find a way to put the solar cells in road
surfaces, or have them be used for thermal changes and not
solar.

I live in Alaska and the difference in temp between day and
night can be extreme.. From 20F to -20F or so .. any ways to
create thermal pumps or like, or just use od tech of later or
alcohol and ... hum..

Hoe much of the so call green house heat is created by our ROADS
and Houses as wel give off millions of calories in Solar to
Thermal energy?

Mike


http://groups.google.com/group/abrigon-world
http://groups.google.com/group/adulthumor-l

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adulthumor-l/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Abrigon-World/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/StargruntsOOC/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Poetry-L/

Trying to take care of my own problems and becomming less politically active of
late, and yes sometimes we have to balance things cause its someone elses
culture, after all they get annoyed at how we live and do things, so why should
we force others to live like we do? Or better or ... Is it escapism that I do in
my life to look at others problems and such, and not look at my own and take
care of my own house?

But yes, do we not  have a moral right to not deal with countries we find their
cultures and such as offensive/abusive, after all by trading with them, we
become tainted by the paint they are painted with.

Yes, if their people start to stream away into our country and all, then we have
some obligation to protect ourselves.

Much like how Austria did when they faced with the Yugoslavian war to wander
into their home land, but did we have to get involved in a European problem?
Especially since many was Muslims? But then not do anything to save Africans who
many are Christians? But opps, the Yugoslavic Muslims (Bosnians) are WHITE and
the Sudan/Somalia/Ethiopian Christans are BLACK/BROWN, but also not threatening
our European buddies.

If we traded more with Africa we might care more? But we did about South Africa,
or was it cause South African (The white one) had control of a major part of the
worlds Gold and Diamonds.
And demand we pay them their rate and not what the west wanted to pay them. so
go figure, now the blacks are in charge and .. we getting the Gold/Diamonds for
cheaper or not?

Also now the country is not that great, but worse Rhodesia now called Zimbabwe
is corrupt and falling apart, and do we do anything? NOPE.

Or some are just waiting for things to fall apart, so . control or ... just
proving Africa is a country of animals or what?

Not sure.. Somalia has had civilization for some 7000+ years. Some parts going
back to being part of the Old Kingdom of Egypt and Meorie(sp) a splinter country
from Egypt..

Trade has been going up and down the western Africa coast since ancient times,
up to Yemen (Sheba?) to the east and via India and to Burma and such..

Trade in slaves, gold, ivory and salt and like..

Why are we not doing anything in Darfur? Not the home of Holyland? Or just to
black or what? Will see how it goes, with Obama and his ties to Kenya?

I do think a less offensive way to change things will do, better than the
invasion of Iraq and how much of a mess that has become since day one.. It could
have and should have been done a lot better!

But hindsight and all. Will see.

Mike



--- In Future-History-L@yahoogroups.com, "ytterbiumc" <dave_pa_smith@...> wrote:
>
> Or worse, held in contempt (not a "real" man) or even ignored.
>
> Saw an article recently stating that it is not the competent that get
> followed but the egomaniacs.  The people who think they can do more
> than they can and thus exude false confidence.  Sheeple lap this up
> like cheap beer.
>
> Finally why consider that protecting children is "better" for
> everyone.  People always look for the safest enemy, the one who can't
> retaliate effectively, who fits the bill better than children?
>
> FYI, I do not actually endorse that POV and it is only bad experiences
> on the internet and personal experiences with people with, shall we
> say "diverse viewpoints" that made me write this disclaimer.
>
> --- In Future-History-L@yahoogroups.com, Abrigon Gusiq <abrigon@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Always looking to feel special, empowered but also for excuses
> > on how come things are not better.
> >
> > And yes, sheep.. or who wants to be the first to die or be hated
> > cause they did things wrong and everyone else followed them?
> >
> > Mike
>

I just know that kin wars are often the worst to deal with, for they think a lot
alike. Same or similar language, and seperated by things that only can be
explained as base to a human being. Faith is not easy to break. Especially it is
defensive in nature. It can become very offensive and violent. Islam has "laws"
against prostelization, but Christianity and Judiasm has almost similar
traditions or so it seems. But I expect most faiths have something like, or many
do..

Prosylitezation (sp) actively trying to convert members of the local faith. Its
okay to be nearly wrong in Islams, as long as you do not try to convert the
latest upgrade/true faith. Cause in a way, Judiasm and Christianity are much
like Islam 1, Islam 2, and current Islam is Islam 3. Islam = to follow the word
of God/Allah/Adonai/etc?

ME, I got to take some classes in English, so I can better say things and not
get people confused?

Me, normally do not have problems with Immigrant, since it is a natural thing.
For those who are in power, to get overly confident, want it all, but not work
hard for, so they import others to do the nasty work. Be it "local" AmerIndians,
Lower class Whites (English mostly), Irish (even if Catholic), Blacks as slaves,
Chinese/Indian (from India) as barely above slaves and yes Hispanics and other
persons from often "poorer" parts of the world.

Cheap labor is a thing of nature. No does not mean you are superior to be on
top, just your time, then many get lazy, and bored, and either get killed off,
replaced or even intermingle with the others.

If they are more militiant, they often rule but if they are smaller in numbers,
they often lose out to local populations.

Examples such as France, Romans moved in, took over from the Gauls, the Romans
was military in nature, also more wealth and they took over but the language
still was left with a Celtic/Gaulish feel to it, then later Germanic tribes
moved in and took over, and quickly was absorbed (Franks and Goths).
Merovingians, Carolingians and Normans, became "French" and yes even the English
to a degree. King Johns stunts and losing the English French lands was the best
for English, since it forced many English lords to be English and move back to
England or to go to or stay in France and become fully French.

Yes, minority can survive for a long time.. And yes, even rule but they are
often very brutal and actually keep much of their culture, but racially often
become closer to those they think they rule.

But heh, how much of England today (White ones) are actually "English" most are
a mixture of British (Breton/Welsh/Cornish), Roman and related, and then some
are English (Anglo-Saxon-Jute) and Norman (Germanic for the most part but ...
French in culture) and other genetic roots..

Back to other topic.

If a nation is a brutal dictatorship and we would normally find offensive, but
we deal with them and do not at least try to make them in our minds, more like
us (moral high ground?) then we are just as guilty as they are for being brutal
dictatorships and often genocide and like actions..

Do we not have an obligations to only deal with those who respect human life,
and such? Or we then wonder why some nations and such, might hate us, cause we
are the buddies of the same said dictator?

Or, who you think helped many dictators to power and/or kept them in power? But
us, and people then see us as just as bad as the brutal dictators? Sadly yes, it
is like saying all Muslims are Arabs and all Arabs are Muslims, which is far
from true.

I do wonder how many non-Jews are citizens of Israel, or to be a citizen you
have to be Jewish? Just looking for some balance.

Exploring questions and trying to deal with possible assumptions or errors?

Mike




--- In Future-History-L@yahoogroups.com, Sam McConnich <rpgstarwizard@...>
wrote:
>
> the socalled animals are even here, blaming far countries is easy, but there
are those that have called for govt take over and getting rid of different
people
> the gov of alaska has some neat friends
>
>
>
>

Me, not into theocracies and like. Such as Iran, but also any nation that puts
on faith over another.

I know, got to respect Jews and the Jewish faith, it has survived how long now?
I think part of the problems is that people are jealous? To bull headed to learn
some lessons? I do think some of their problems like any group maybe self
inflicted but sadly some have been some trusting a government more than they
should have.. A lesson for any country on how governments will act. Or how some
will want change or security and will throw any thing at it to have it and in
the process many suffer for it. US had a very active pro-Nazi movement in the US
before WW2, or just many did not care about them.. But ignorance can be a
powerful reasons for things?

Such as how many in the US are very ignorant of Islam or any other faith but
Christianity (even some still have much to learn about Catholics let alone
Orthodox Christians, let alone the other branches that exist but few know of
them.

What is Shinto for or?
Buddhism?

Let alone more out there faiths, such as Jain, Sikh, Wiccan, and more.

Will see how things go, humans have such fun with new faiths and old ones and
wanting to be different but ...

IDIC?

Mike

We was down to .99 like 4 years ago but up to like 2.65/gallon now, and we
have a refinery down the street, but its not price gouging but there is some
sort of market formula for how comes we are over a 1$ more /gallon than most
of the US? And it will get worse, as militay jet/normal fuel demands goes
down.. We are basically paying what it would cost the Oil/Gas companies to
import gasoline and diesel from the lower 48/Canada but with out the real
transport costs..

But this is part of what I do not think we will move to non-oil/gas forms of
fuel until we are brutally FORCED to, such as major depression and people
sadly in the street in DC demanding things change. Cause Oil/Gas like the
Tobacco industry are so in power in DC that they can sell things that are
addictive in the case of cigarettes and cause high rates of cancer and keeps
the AMA (American Medical Assoctians) well paid and in their mansions and
like.

Mike
Alaska

PS: Anyone else get the feeling that Mr. Madoff and his plea for the scandal
seems to much like he is the sactificial goat for much more powerful
peoples?

----- Original Message -----
From: "rmrobinson1227" <Lyonesse@...>
To: <sfconsim-l@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:10 PM
Subject: energy future was Re: [sfconsim-l] Re: Space Future


> --- In sfconsim-l@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Picio" <matt.picio@...> wrote:
>
>> > My take is that growing energy demand will force that transition even
>> > before oil production declines. A billion Chinese and Indians are
>> > knocking on the door of the global middle class, and if it is not
>> > opened it will blow up.
>>
>> I hope you're right, Rick, but demand has been growing solidly the last 5
>> years while production has been effectively flat, and the attendant
>> increase in prices hasn't changed that as yet.
>>
>> That said, it typically takes 5-7 years for a project to come online, so
>> those projects spurred in the last few years by increasing prices are not
>> fully in the marketplace yet.
>
>
> I remember paying around $1.50 for gas a few years ago and thinking how
> bizarre it was, because in real terms that had to be a historically low
> price. Either the world was awash in oil, or the Saudis, who have
> considerable cultural awareness of solar energy, were freaking terrified
> that we would get REALLY mad at them, go at solar Apollo style, and in ten
> years leave them trying to hustle date palm oil on the world market.
>
> Now oil is cheap again because of the incipient depression, but that is as
> artificial as the peak price probably was. Prices are tending secular up.
> In the short term that will bring a lot of new reserves on line, simply
> because oil that has been known about for decades but would cost $50/bbl
> to pump has become worth pumping.
>
> Per another post, I don't see why petroleum use couldn't be more or less
> phased out on the one generation time scale of general infrastructure
> renewal/replacement. In the perverse way of real economics the transition
> to a higher energy cost regime could readily be experienced as prosperity.
> Instead of paying a low rent to Saudi princes, who spend it on racehorses
> and expensive hookers, mostly in Europe, we will be paying a higher
> production cost to a domestic industry, the workers and shareholders of
> which mostly spend the money here.
>
> The only thing that actually hurts is more expensive gas and electricity,
> which gets generally reflected in higher prices of 'stuff,' but less in
> services and some kinds of goods. But generally while inflation, short of
> hyperinflation, is annoying, recessions are what actually hurt.
>
> -- Rick
>
>

--- In Future-History-L@yahoogroups.com, Abrigon Gusiq <abrigon@...> wrote:
>
> We was down to .99 like 4 years ago but up to like 2.65/gallon now, and we
> have a refinery down the street, but its not price gouging but there is some
> sort of market formula for how comes we are over a 1$ more /gallon than most
> of the US? And it will get worse, as militay jet/normal fuel demands goes
> down.. We are basically paying what it would cost the Oil/Gas companies to
> import gasoline and diesel from the lower 48/Canada but with out the real
> transport costs..
>
> But this is part of what I do not think we will move to non-oil/gas forms of
> fuel until we are brutally FORCED to, such as major depression and people
> sadly in the street in DC demanding things change. Cause Oil/Gas like the
> Tobacco industry are so in power in DC that they can sell things that are
> addictive in the case of cigarettes and cause high rates of cancer and keeps
> the AMA (American Medical Assoctians) well paid and in their mansions and
> like.
>
> Mike
> Alaska
>
> PS: Anyone else get the feeling that Mr. Madoff and his plea for the scandal
> seems to much like he is the sactificial goat for much more powerful
> peoples?
>

Madoff stole $50 billion, with a B. He's not a scapegoat, he's the largest thorn
in the briar that America stepped on. There are other thorns on the branch, he's
just the largest, so he gets plucked first.

As for energy, Oil won out a hundred years ago because it was the cheapest
energy at the time. We know it would run out eventually, and didn't do anything
in the intervening century regardless. We'd do the world a favor if we spent
more money on solar power, but politics will get in the way of that.

Out and Coal aren't going away until they develop efficient Fusion reactors. We
aren't spending enough in that area, less than we did 25 years ago in fact. The
fact that the last major development in fusion technology still can't confirm
it's results isn't helping matters any.

Oh well, maybe the stories of aliens are true and they'll show us how to make
"crystalic dark energy converters" when they revel themselves. I'm not putting
any money down on that one, however.

I am to slow, was thinking much the same or something like for modern
cities.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Plus" <markplus@...>
To: <piper-worlds@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:17 PM
Subject: [Piper-Worlds] Reminds me of the Martian university.



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/25/us/25sears.html?_r=1

"CHICAGO — The Sears Tower, that bronze-black monument that forms the
110-story peak of the skyline here and stands as the tallest office
building in the Western Hemisphere, will soon have another unique
feature: wind turbines sprouting from its recessed rooftops high in the
sky."

Compare with "Omnilingual":

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19445/19445-h/19445-h.htm

Tony Lattimer and his companions came down to the seventh floor a little
later.

"I don't get this, at all," he began, as soon as he joined them. "This
building wasn't stripped the way the others were. Always, the procedure
seems to have been to strip from the bottom up, but they seem to have
stripped the top floors first, here. All but the very top. I found out
what that conical thing is, by the way. It's a wind-rotor, and under it
there's an electric generator. This building generated its own power."

Mark Plus


     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Piper-Worlds/

So how is all doing now days?

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "ytterbiumc" <dave_pa_smith@...>
To: <Future-History-L@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 3:01 AM
Subject: [Future-History-L] Re: 13 year old girl stoned to death in Somalia


> Or worse, held in contempt (not a "real" man) or even ignored.
>
> Saw an article recently stating that it is not the competent that get
> followed but the egomaniacs.  The people who think they can do more
> than they can and thus exude false confidence.  Sheeple lap this up
> like cheap beer.
>
> Finally why consider that protecting children is "better" for
> everyone.  People always look for the safest enemy, the one who can't
> retaliate effectively, who fits the bill better than children?
>
> FYI, I do not actually endorse that POV and it is only bad experiences
> on the internet and personal experiences with people with, shall we
> say "diverse viewpoints" that made me write this disclaimer.
>
> --- In Future-History-L@yahoogroups.com, Abrigon Gusiq <abrigon@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> Always looking to feel special, empowered but also for excuses
>> on how come things are not better.
>>
>> And yes, sheep.. or who wants to be the first to die or be hated
>> cause they did things wrong and everyone else followed them?
>>
>> Mike
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Now if we could only solve the RRoD.....
--- In Future-History-L@yahoogroups.com, Abrigon Gusiq <abrigon@...> wrote:
>
> Any comments?
>
> Mike
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 1. Neural interfaces, here we come!
>     Posted by: "Eric Funk"
> eric_funk_anti_spam_this_is_a_real_email_addres spectre_gurps
>     Date: Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:38 pm ((PST))
>
>
>
http://www.pinktentacle.com/2008/12/scientists-extract-images-directly-from-brai\
n/
>
>
> It seems to imply being able to read memories, but the stated
> facts and
> diagrams point to monitoring optical input.
>
>
> -
> Eric Funk
> "Knowledge Brings Fear" -- Motto of Mars University, Futurama
>