We was down to .99 like 4 years ago but up to like 2.65/gallon now, and we
have a refinery down the street, but its not price gouging but there is some
sort of market formula for how comes we are over a 1$ more /gallon than most
of the US? And it will get worse, as militay jet/normal fuel demands goes
down.. We are basically paying what it would cost the Oil/Gas companies to
import gasoline and diesel from the lower 48/Canada but with out the real
transport costs..

But this is part of what I do not think we will move to non-oil/gas forms of
fuel until we are brutally FORCED to, such as major depression and people
sadly in the street in DC demanding things change. Cause Oil/Gas like the
Tobacco industry are so in power in DC that they can sell things that are
addictive in the case of cigarettes and cause high rates of cancer and keeps
the AMA (American Medical Assoctians) well paid and in their mansions and
like.

Mike
Alaska

PS: Anyone else get the feeling that Mr. Madoff and his plea for the scandal
seems to much like he is the sactificial goat for much more powerful
peoples?

----- Original Message -----
From: "rmrobinson1227" <Lyonesse@...>
To: <sfconsim-l@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:10 PM
Subject: energy future was Re: [sfconsim-l] Re: Space Future


> --- In sfconsim-l@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Picio" <matt.picio@...> wrote:
>
>> > My take is that growing energy demand will force that transition even
>> > before oil production declines. A billion Chinese and Indians are
>> > knocking on the door of the global middle class, and if it is not
>> > opened it will blow up.
>>
>> I hope you're right, Rick, but demand has been growing solidly the last 5
>> years while production has been effectively flat, and the attendant
>> increase in prices hasn't changed that as yet.
>>
>> That said, it typically takes 5-7 years for a project to come online, so
>> those projects spurred in the last few years by increasing prices are not
>> fully in the marketplace yet.
>
>
> I remember paying around $1.50 for gas a few years ago and thinking how
> bizarre it was, because in real terms that had to be a historically low
> price. Either the world was awash in oil, or the Saudis, who have
> considerable cultural awareness of solar energy, were freaking terrified
> that we would get REALLY mad at them, go at solar Apollo style, and in ten
> years leave them trying to hustle date palm oil on the world market.
>
> Now oil is cheap again because of the incipient depression, but that is as
> artificial as the peak price probably was. Prices are tending secular up.
> In the short term that will bring a lot of new reserves on line, simply
> because oil that has been known about for decades but would cost $50/bbl
> to pump has become worth pumping.
>
> Per another post, I don't see why petroleum use couldn't be more or less
> phased out on the one generation time scale of general infrastructure
> renewal/replacement. In the perverse way of real economics the transition
> to a higher energy cost regime could readily be experienced as prosperity.
> Instead of paying a low rent to Saudi princes, who spend it on racehorses
> and expensive hookers, mostly in Europe, we will be paying a higher
> production cost to a domestic industry, the workers and shareholders of
> which mostly spend the money here.
>
> The only thing that actually hurts is more expensive gas and electricity,
> which gets generally reflected in higher prices of 'stuff,' but less in
> services and some kinds of goods. But generally while inflation, short of
> hyperinflation, is annoying, recessions are what actually hurt.
>
> -- Rick
>
>