Linda,

After reading these posts regarding the "VAULT" v. "FHL" categories
on the family search website, I also became a little alarmed. I
don't know why certain films are categorized the way they are, and I
doubt that the volunteers at my local FHC would know either.

But I have a printout of the FHL Catalog for Itri that I generated
on 7/1/07. The printout shows almost all of the Processetti films
(save for the two earliest), two Nati films (1824-1831 and 1832-
1839) and two Morti films (ag. 1827 - magg. 1846 and 1857-1861)
listed as "VAULT INTL."

Since the date of that printout, I have ordered and viewed all of
the Nati and Morti films (including those listed as VAULT INTL)
without any problem, and none were pulled from the files prior to my
consent (currently I have two Processetti films listed as VAULT on
indefinite loan without any problems).

So whatever the reasons for the categorizing of these films, it does
not mean that they are unavailable outside of Salt Lake City. Again,
I don't know what it means, but I haven't had a problem ordering
films categorized as VAULT.

Hope this puts everyone a little more at ease.

Rick


--- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...>
wrote:
>
> LOL  My recollection of it was that it was rather boring but
informative.  I should pay more attention next time.
>
> Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:          Marie,
>
> It was run several times just a couple of weeks ago...guess you
missed it.  Both WGBH, Boston and WSBE, RI ran it a couple of times
each.  On those days they ran it during normal evening hours & then
repeated it during the red eye hours.  I know 'cause I zonked trying
to stay awake watching it, woke up and it was still on so I finished
watching the program thinking I'd only missed a few minutes.  Only
later did I realize that when I had woken-up , what I woke-up during
was the second showing of the night during the red eye hours.  I was
mightily disoriented that night after my two installment sleep
delayed viewing of the show and needed a caffeine IV the next day!!!
>
> Linda
>
> marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...> wrote:
>   LInda, I see that there has been a dispute between Ancestry
and "the Mormons."  I now have no idea who really owns Ancestry.
Perhaps SEC filings would share some light on this. I am curious.
>
>   I sort of watched the PBS special on Mormons when it was on TV
in Boston.  Mitt Romney was our governor, then presidential
candidate so it was good to see.  I would like to watch it again
though as I missed some parts.
>
>   Marie
>
>
>
>   Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
>       Marie,
>
> "I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this."  I don't think
there's a problem there because of all the Catholic names I've run
on familysearch.org, the only time any of them have come up has been
in connection with an IGI (International Genealogical Index) take
directly from primary source records.  Although I'm sure it happens
that people who were Catholic have converted to the Mormon faith and
there are Catholic ancestors who are also now Mormons, apparently
none of them share ancestors with me or my husband.   The returns on
the results page would say "member supplied" somewhere on the
individual page for the person.  I just don't think Catholics have
flocked to the Mormon religion in the numbers that other faiths
have.
>
> For example, if you run my great-grandfather, Luigi Cannella, this
is what you get for a result:  LUIGI CANNELLA - International
Genealogical Index / SE
> Gender: Male Marriage: 08 SEP 1849 Itri, Latina, Italy.
>
> When you click on his name the page you get tells you basically
the same thing but because it is for a marriage so you also get:
Spouse:  MARIA LORETA CARDI    Marriage:  08 SEP 1849   Itri,
Latina, Italy
>
> And at the bottom, the source of this information which is one of
the Itri films of primary source records: Batch No.:  M840603
Dates: 1840 - 1861    Source Call No.: 1173755    Type:  Film; which
is this film -> Matrimoni ag. 1840-1861 FHL INTL Film 1173755.
>
> As far as I'm concerned, if someone was born Catholic, lived life
as a Catholic and died in the Catholic faith or any other faith for
that matter, something someone does many decades farther down the
road isn't going to change that fact that they were Catholics.  It's
after the fact and it's not going to change a single thing that has
transpired in the past.  I look at it rather like having dual
citizenship or two passports...one for the US and one for Italy for
those folks who qualify.
>
> " no longer available for the on line database that one pays
for??"   I guess you're talking about the Generations Network sites
here?   I had asked one of the volunteers at my FHC whom I knew was
a Mormon if the Mormon's owned what Ancestry and it's sister sites'
parent company was then known as "My Family.com" and was told "No"
and that the FHC's had to pay for their access to Ancestry which she
thought was unfair given that most of the content on Ancestry &
company was materials that the Mormons had given them access to.
>
> At any rate, none of the Itri material has ever been available
through the pay sites of Ancestry or Genealogy.  I wish it were
since it would be much more convenient.  I've gotten tons more
research done on Hubby's French Canadian ancestors now that Ancestry
has the Drouin* Collection on line.  *The Drouin Institute of
Montréal when out in the 1930-1940's and filmed every repertoire
aka parish register that was in existence at the time for the whole
of Quebec.  The repertoire were, up into the 20th century, the
official vital records of Quebec so with the Drouin films, it is
possible to trace one's Fre-Can ancestors back to the beginning of
New France and the first ancestors to come over from France in the
1600's.   I have often times wished that there existed something
similar for Itri and Italy.
>
> "Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based
on objections,...."  familysearch.org, where one would find member
supplied information thus indicating that someone descended from
that person or persons had become a Mormon and submitted their
ancestors, is free.   what the jewish people were objecting to where
the member supplied information and registration of Jewish ancestors
as Mormons.  Just as you won't find too many Catholic ancestors in
the Mormon database, you won't find many Jewish ancestors.
>
> Look around and you can probably find the program "The Mormons" on
a PBS DVD or maybe even your local library might have it in their
collection.  It takes a lot of the mystery out of the Mormon faith
which so many of us rely on for our research materials but know so
little about.  This is from the PBS Store http://www.shoppbs.org/ -
The Mormons Single DVD  Item No. MORM601 - Description:   The Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is one of America's fastest
growing religions, and its influence circles the globe. Yet the
birth of Mormonism and its history is one of America's great
neglected narratives. This four-hour documentary brings together
FRONTLINE and AMERICAN EXPERIENCE in their first co-production to
provide a searching portrait of this fascinating but often
misunderstood religion.
>
>
>
> Ancestry databases are records, periodicals, rare books, family
genealogies, directories, maps, etc most of which would be otherwise
inaccessible to most people by virtue of geographic separation from
where the ancestors lived and the time constraints of trying to get
in where the materials are during the hours a repository is open.
For example, what Ancestry has are numerous databases such as the
Drouin, US, English and Canadian censuses, digitized forms of
publications such as the rare early 5 volume 20th century
publication "Staten Island and Its People : A History, 1609-1929" or
Arnold's "Vital Record of Rhode Island, 1636-1850, First Series,
Births, Marriages and Deaths : a Family Register for the People".
>
> An Ancestry subscription can it's place in one's research.  As
much as I love the American French Genealogical Society up in
Woonsocket, it's having the Drouin available to me 24/7 through my
Ancestry subscription that has gotten me where I am with the Fre-Can
ancestors.  Ancestry can't replace the AFGS but it certainly has
gotten me light years ahead in that line of research now that I
don't have to wait to get time to get into the AFGS when they're
open and when I do get in, I can make better use of the trip
expanding upon what are know known and confirmed ancestors.
>
> As far as what "Vault" means, I'm still trying to find that out
without bringing attention to the Itri films at my FHC that are now
listed as "Vault" on the familysearch.org web site.  I was pleased
to see when I did my earlier reply that films that had been "Vault"
on the weekend had changed in designation but still none to happy to
see that nearly all the Processetti are now "Vault".  However, it's
a whole lot easier to live without access to the Processetti than
without the BMD films.
>
> Linda
>
>
> marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...> wrote:
>   Linda, I find this fascinating and distrubing as I really did
not know about the posthumous baptisms.  I am sure the Vatican would
not approve of this.  Also, when you say the films for Itri are now
in the VAULT, do you mean they are no longer available for the
online database that one pays for??
>
>   Don't kid yourself, the Mormons have grown very rich off their
database.  I am sure that finances so many of their endeavors.  I
would love to see the financials on ancestry.com.  Let me see if I
can find anything on that subject.
>
>   Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based
on objections, since they make so much money off it.  Exclsion of
every group that objects would dent into their profit margin.
>
>   Marie
>
> Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
>       Why indeed?  If I were urber-suspicious, I'd think that it
had something to do with the PBS running of the program on the
Mormons and the Italian government objecting to the films being out
there since the information in them is used by Mormons to have their
ancestors posthumously baptized into the Mormon faith.  Somehow,
though, I think it just a mundane coincidence that PBS stations
around here ran the Mormon program at least 4 times a couple of
weeks back that I remember.
>
> That's not to say that there haven't been some groups that have
objected to having their people recorded for posterity as Mormons.
People of the Jewish faith took great exception to having their
ancestors listed as "Mormon" and those people have been removed from
the Mormon registers.  Now, only if a former member of the Jewish
faith submits their own personal ancestors, does a Jewish ancestor
get baptized a Mormon.  When I saw that segment in the program I
thought the speaker's attitude a bit pompus.  after all, those
ancestors might be that Mormon member's ancestors BUT they are also
the ancestors of other people who are of the Jewish faith and might
object just as deeply to having their ancestors' faith changed and
having someone 100 years from now think that these folks were always
Mormon.
>
> I cringe every time the whole thing about the posthumous baptism
gets widespread mention such as on the PBS program because I'm
afraid that if too many people or religious groups got their backs
ups and started complaining and demanding that their ancestors be
struck from the registers of Mormons as was done with those of the
Jewish faith, that the access to all the materials that we now enjoy
will be denied those who are not Mormon.  My whole take on the thing
is that if someone died a Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Shinto,
Episcopalian, Methodist or whatever and had considered themselves in
life and had practiced that faith in their lifetime, then someone
coming along 100 years later and baptizing them without their
knowledge or consent really doesn't change a thing of what happened
in the past and is pointless but if it puts someone else at ease
within their chosen religion, I can't see much harm in it.
>
>
> But I do see a great deal of harm to people's research if access
to the information in the films is denied.  I wonder if it's just
the films on Itri or all the Italian films?
>
> Linda
>
>
> marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...> wrote:
>   I did some searching and there is a vault outside of Salt Lake
City where these are kept.  It actually is a whole in the side of a
mountain to protect them.  Looks kind of space age!!!  When you go
to Salt Lake City you can view them but you have to order them
before hand.  It says that some are chosen for safekeeping.  I bet
there is more to this than meets the eye!!  Why Itri of all
places??
>
>   Marie
>
> Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
>       I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films
and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list
that had come from Salt Lake that our director wanted the volunteers
to pull.  U know what a stickler he seems to be.  I'm afraid to ask
and bring attention to the films...I wish there were some way we
could spirit them out of there and have bootlegs made...I'd
definitely want to share the cost especially if the alternative is
having all that information locked away where we can't see it any
more.
>
> Linda
>
> Jason Soscia <jsoscia3@...> wrote:       Can they really recall
them back to Salt Lake?  I paid for most of those Itri films to be
kept there indefinitely.
>
> miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
>       I noticed while composing a response to our newest member,
Martine,
> that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
> rather than "FHL INTL Film'.
>
> I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were
previously
> available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no
one
> aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
> don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling
them
> to pull the films and return them to the FHL.
>
> If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would
be a
> major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri!
It
> has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the
period
> between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
> that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!
>
> 15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault".
I
> called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer
available
> but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
> films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
> FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
> complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be
there.
>
> However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
> future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
> I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done
with
> searching through those films.
>
> Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about
to
> lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??
>
> Linda
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
Mobile. Try it now.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
Yahoo! Search.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
Yahoo! Search.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
Mobile. Try it now.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
Mobile. Try it now.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>
>
>
>   Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with
Yahoo! Search.
>

Linda,

After reading these posts regarding the "VAULT" v. "FHL" categories
on the family search website, I also became a little alarmed. I
don't know why certain films are categorized the way they are, and I
doubt that the volunteers at my local FHC would know either.

But I have a printout of the FHL Catalog for Itri that I generated
on 7/1/07. The printout shows almost all of the Processetti films
(save for the two earliest), two Nati films (1824-1831 and 1832-
1839) and two Morti films (ag. 1827 - magg. 1846 and 1857-1861)
listed as "VAULT INTL."

Since the date of that printout, I have ordered and viewed all of
the Nati and Morti films (including those listed as VAULT INTL)
without any problem, and none were pulled from the files prior to my
consent (currently I have two Processetti films listed as VAULT on
indefinite loan without any problems).

So whatever the reasons for the categorizing of these films, it does
not mean that they are unavailable outside of Salt Lake City. Again,
I don't know what it means, but I haven't had a problem ordering
films categorized as VAULT.

Hope this puts everyone a little more at ease.

Rick

--- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...>
wrote:
>
> LOL My recollection of it was that it was rather boring but
informative. I should pay more attention next time.
>
> Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote: Marie,
>
> It was run several times just a couple of weeks ago...guess you
missed it. Both WGBH, Boston and WSBE, RI ran it a couple of times
each. On those days they ran it during normal evening hours & then
repeated it during the red eye hours. I know 'cause I zonked trying
to stay awake watching it, woke up and it was still on so I finished
watching the program thinking I'd only missed a few minutes. Only
later did I realize that when I had woken-up , what I woke-up during
was the second showing of the night during the red eye hours. I was
mightily disoriented that night after my two installment sleep
delayed viewing of the show and needed a caffeine IV the next day!!!
>
> Linda
>
> marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...> wrote:
> LInda, I see that there has been a dispute between Ancestry
and "the Mormons." I now have no idea who really owns Ancestry.
Perhaps SEC filings would share some light on this. I am curious.
>
> I sort of watched the PBS special on Mormons when it was on TV
in Boston. Mitt Romney was our governor, then presidential
candidate so it was good to see. I would like to watch it again
though as I missed some parts.
>
> Marie
>
>
>
> Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
> Marie,
>
> "I am sure the Vatican would not approve of this." I don't think
there's a problem there because of all the Catholic names I've run
on familysearch.org, the only time any of them have come up has been
in connection with an IGI (International Genealogical Index) take
directly from primary source records. Although I'm sure it happens
that people who were Catholic have converted to the Mormon faith and
there are Catholic ancestors who are also now Mormons, apparently
none of them share ancestors with me or my husband. The returns on
the results page would say "member supplied" somewhere on the
individual page for the person. I just don't think Catholics have
flocked to the Mormon religion in the numbers that other faiths
have.
>
> For example, if you run my great-grandfather, Luigi Cannella, this
is what you get for a result: LUIGI CANNELLA - International
Genealogical Index / SE
> Gender: Male Marriage: 08 SEP 1849 Itri, Latina, Italy.
>
> When you click on his name the page you get tells you basically
the same thing but because it is for a marriage so you also get:
Spouse: MARIA LORETA CARDI Marriage: 08 SEP 1849 Itri,
Latina, Italy
>
> And at the bottom, the source of this information which is one of
the Itri films of primary source records: Batch No.: M840603
Dates: 1840 - 1861 Source Call No.: 1173755 Type: Film; which
is this film -> Matrimoni ag. 1840-1861 FHL INTL Film 1173755.
>
> As far as I'm concerned, if someone was born Catholic, lived life
as a Catholic and died in the Catholic faith or any other faith for
that matter, something someone does many decades farther down the
road isn't going to change that fact that they were Catholics. It's
after the fact and it's not going to change a single thing that has
transpired in the past. I look at it rather like having dual
citizenship or two passports...one for the US and one for Italy for
those folks who qualify.
>
> " no longer available for the on line database that one pays
for??" I guess you're talking about the Generations Network sites
here? I had asked one of the volunteers at my FHC whom I knew was
a Mormon if the Mormon's owned what Ancestry and it's sister sites'
parent company was then known as "My Family.com" and was told "No"
and that the FHC's had to pay for their access to Ancestry which she
thought was unfair given that most of the content on Ancestry &
company was materials that the Mormons had given them access to.
>
> At any rate, none of the Itri material has ever been available
through the pay sites of Ancestry or Genealogy. I wish it were
since it would be much more convenient. I've gotten tons more
research done on Hubby's French Canadian ancestors now that Ancestry
has the Drouin* Collection on line. *The Drouin Institute of
Montréal when out in the 1930-1940's and filmed every repertoire
aka parish register that was in existence at the time for the whole
of Quebec. The repertoire were, up into the 20th century, the
official vital records of Quebec so with the Drouin films, it is
possible to trace one's Fre-Can ancestors back to the beginning of
New France and the first ancestors to come over from France in the
1600's. I have often times wished that there existed something
similar for Itri and Italy.
>
> "Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based
on objections,...." familysearch.org, where one would find member
supplied information thus indicating that someone descended from
that person or persons had become a Mormon and submitted their
ancestors, is free. what the jewish people were objecting to where
the member supplied information and registration of Jewish ancestors
as Mormons. Just as you won't find too many Catholic ancestors in
the Mormon database, you won't find many Jewish ancestors.
>
> Look around and you can probably find the program "The Mormons" on
a PBS DVD or maybe even your local library might have it in their
collection. It takes a lot of the mystery out of the Mormon faith
which so many of us rely on for our research materials but know so
little about. This is from the PBS Store http://www.shoppbs.org/ -
The Mormons Single DVD Item No. MORM601 - Description: The Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is one of America's fastest
growing religions, and its influence circles the globe. Yet the
birth of Mormonism and its history is one of America's great
neglected narratives. This four-hour documentary brings together
FRONTLINE and AMERICAN EXPERIENCE in their first co-production to
provide a searching portrait of this fascinating but often
misunderstood religion.
>
>
>
> Ancestry databases are records, periodicals, rare books, family
genealogies, directories, maps, etc most of which would be otherwise
inaccessible to most people by virtue of geographic separation from
where the ancestors lived and the time constraints of trying to get
in where the materials are during the hours a repository is open.
For example, what Ancestry has are numerous databases such as the
Drouin, US, English and Canadian censuses, digitized forms of
publications such as the rare early 5 volume 20th century
publication "Staten Island and Its People : A History, 1609-1929" or
Arnold's "Vital Record of Rhode Island, 1636-1850, First Series,
Births, Marriages and Deaths : a Family Register for the People".
>
> An Ancestry subscription can it's place in one's research. As
much as I love the American French Genealogical Society up in
Woonsocket, it's having the Drouin available to me 24/7 through my
Ancestry subscription that has gotten me where I am with the Fre-Can
ancestors. Ancestry can't replace the AFGS but it certainly has
gotten me light years ahead in that line of research now that I
don't have to wait to get time to get into the AFGS when they're
open and when I do get in, I can make better use of the trip
expanding upon what are know known and confirmed ancestors.
>
> As far as what "Vault" means, I'm still trying to find that out
without bringing attention to the Itri films at my FHC that are now
listed as "Vault" on the familysearch.org web site. I was pleased
to see when I did my earlier reply that films that had been "Vault"
on the weekend had changed in designation but still none to happy to
see that nearly all the Processetti are now "Vault". However, it's
a whole lot easier to live without access to the Processetti than
without the BMD films.
>
> Linda
>
>
> marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...> wrote:
> Linda, I find this fascinating and distrubing as I really did
not know about the posthumous baptisms. I am sure the Vatican would
not approve of this. Also, when you say the films for Itri are now
in the VAULT, do you mean they are no longer available for the
online database that one pays for??
>
> Don't kid yourself, the Mormons have grown very rich off their
database. I am sure that finances so many of their endeavors. I
would love to see the financials on ancestry.com. Let me see if I
can find anything on that subject.
>
> Also, I cannot imagine the Mormons limiting that database based
on objections, since they make so much money off it. Exclsion of
every group that objects would dent into their profit margin.
>
> Marie
>
> Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
> Why indeed? If I were urber-suspicious, I'd think that it
had something to do with the PBS running of the program on the
Mormons and the Italian government objecting to the films being out
there since the information in them is used by Mormons to have their
ancestors posthumously baptized into the Mormon faith. Somehow,
though, I think it just a mundane coincidence that PBS stations
around here ran the Mormon program at least 4 times a couple of
weeks back that I remember.
>
> That's not to say that there haven't been some groups that have
objected to having their people recorded for posterity as Mormons.
People of the Jewish faith took great exception to having their
ancestors listed as "Mormon" and those people have been removed from
the Mormon registers. Now, only if a former member of the Jewish
faith submits their own personal ancestors, does a Jewish ancestor
get baptized a Mormon. When I saw that segment in the program I
thought the speaker's attitude a bit pompus. after all, those
ancestors might be that Mormon member's ancestors BUT they are also
the ancestors of other people who are of the Jewish faith and might
object just as deeply to having their ancestors' faith changed and
having someone 100 years from now think that these folks were always
Mormon.
>
> I cringe every time the whole thing about the posthumous baptism
gets widespread mention such as on the PBS program because I'm
afraid that if too many people or religious groups got their backs
ups and started complaining and demanding that their ancestors be
struck from the registers of Mormons as was done with those of the
Jewish faith, that the access to all the materials that we now enjoy
will be denied those who are not Mormon. My whole take on the thing
is that if someone died a Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Shinto,
Episcopalian, Methodist or whatever and had considered themselves in
life and had practiced that faith in their lifetime, then someone
coming along 100 years later and baptizing them without their
knowledge or consent really doesn't change a thing of what happened
in the past and is pointless but if it puts someone else at ease
within their chosen religion, I can't see much harm in it.
>
>
> But I do see a great deal of harm to people's research if access
to the information in the films is denied. I wonder if it's just
the films on Itri or all the Italian films?
>
> Linda
>
>
> marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...> wrote:
> I did some searching and there is a vault outside of Salt Lake
City where these are kept. It actually is a whole in the side of a
mountain to protect them. Looks kind of space age!!! When you go
to Salt Lake City you can view them but you have to order them
before hand. It says that some are chosen for safekeeping. I bet
there is more to this than meets the eye!! Why Itri of all
places??
>
> Marie
>
> Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
> I think so...I went in one day when Verna was pulling films
and I asked her about what she was doing and she showed me a list
that had come from Salt Lake that our director wanted the volunteers
to pull. U know what a stickler he seems to be. I'm afraid to ask
and bring attention to the films...I wish there were some way we
could spirit them out of there and have bootlegs made...I'd
definitely want to share the cost especially if the alternative is
having all that information locked away where we can't see it any
more.
>
> Linda
>
> Jason Soscia <jsoscia3@...> wrote: Can they really recall
them back to Salt Lake? I paid for most of those Itri films to be
kept there indefinitely.
>
> miyukichan0987 <miyukichan0987@...> wrote:
> I noticed while composing a response to our newest member,
Martine,
> that quite a few of the films for Itri now say "VAULT INTL Film"
> rather than "FHL INTL Film'.
>
> I do know that under certain circumstances, films that were
previously
> available to research, suddenly become restricted for reasons no
one
> aka the volunteers at my FHC has been able to tell me because they
> don't know either. They just get notices from Salt Lake telling
them
> to pull the films and return them to the FHL.
>
> If these films that are now "Vault" are to be restricted it would
be a
> major blow to all of us trying to research our ancestors in Itri!
It
> has been frustrating enough for me that I can only research the
period
> between 1809 -1865 but now to lose a major portion of the films of
> that period would be an insurmountable research tragedy!
>
> 15 of the 26 films of records for Itri are now designated "Vault".
I
> called my FHC to see if that means the records are no longer
available
> but the volunteer did not know what "Vault" meant with respect to
> films already on loan. So far, the Itrani films at the Warwick, RI
> FHC that are on "Indefinite" loan and which constitute nearly a
> complete set of all the 26 films available, all seem to still be
there.
>
> However, since I don't know if they will at some point in the near
> future be ordered pulled from the files and sent back to Salt Lake,
> I'm going to start living at the FHC because I am far from done
with
> searching through those films.
>
> Can anyone tell the rest of us if "Vault" means that we are about
to
> lose access to over 50% of the available films on Itri or not??
>
> Linda
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
Mobile. Try it now.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
Yahoo! Search.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
Yahoo! Search.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
Mobile. Try it now.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
Mobile. Try it now.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
Yahoo! Search.
>

Hello. Im looking for any information on the birth of my Grandfather.
I have a paper from the italian army (need to get it translated) but
it states his parents names and the place/date of his birth. Would you
be able to help me find his birth certificate or any info on his
parents?? Any help is greatly greatly appreciated.



My Grandfather:  Fortunato Di Iorio
date of birth:   1 October 1877
place of birth:  Corcero Aussonio

My Grandfathers Fathers Name: Antonio (was a Tailor by trade)
My Grandfathers Mothers Name: Biasiotta Carolina

Thanks in advance.

Hello. Im looking for any information on the birth of my Grandfather.
I have a paper from the italian army (need to get it translated) but
it states his parents names and the place/date of his birth. Would you
be able to help me find his birth certificate or any info on his
parents?? Any help is greatly greatly appreciated.

My Grandfather: Fortunato Di Iorio
date of birth: 1 October 1877
place of birth: Corcero Aussonio

My Grandfathers Fathers Name: Antonio (was a Tailor by trade)
My Grandfathers Mothers Name: Biasiotta Carolina

Thanks in advance.

Hello. Im looking for any information on the birth of my Grandfather.
I have a paper from the italian army (need to get it translated) but
it states his parents names and the place/date of his birth. Would you
be able to help me find his birth certificate or any info on his
parents?? Any help is greatly greatly appreciated.

My Grandfather: Fortunato Di Iorio
date of birth: 1 October 1877
place of birth: Corcero Aussonio

My Grandfathers Fathers Name: Antonio (was a Tailor by trade)
My Grandfathers Mothers Name: Biasiotta Carolina

Thanks in advance.

---

To: FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com
From: miyukichan0987@...
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 12:17:37 -0700
Subject: Re: [FraDiavolo] DiIorio Family in Gaeta

You're in luck!! 

For your Grandfather's comune, Coreno Ausonio,  in the Province of Frosinone the LDS was allowed to film records from 1809 to 1904 so you should be able to find not only your Grandfather's birth act but quite possibly the marriage act of his parents and if he married while still in Italy, his marriage as well.  Also the death acts of his parents.  From the marriage and death you can learn your Great-Grandparents' parents' names.  You will also find it fairly easy to build family groups.

Italian records will give you a wealth of information.  You should first look at the book "Italian Genealogical Records" by Trafford Cole, ISBN 0-916489-58-2 Chapter 6 Napoleonic Records.  Once you see a few of the records, you will easily catch on to what they are "saying" and the information you are seeing despite it being in Italian.

You will need to locate a Family History Center near you and go in to fill out the paperwork and fee ($5+/ea) for borrowing the microfilms from Salt Lake City.  Your FHC will notify you when the materials you requested arrive so that you can go in and research them.

The site you want to go to for getting the film #s and locating a FHC is familysearch.org  library tab and sub tabs FHL catalog & Family History Centers.

I looked up your films using the "Place" search mode  and simply entering  "Coreno Ausonio" which go me to the page hat gave me the films' title and # of reels of film; Registri dello stato civile, 1809-1904 - 19 reels of 35mm microfilm.  "View Film Notes" then told me what was on each reel of film.

For your Grandfather's birth in 1877 you will want to look at Nati 1865-1893 FHL INTL Film  1882501.  (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=15483&disp=Registri+dello+stato+civile++)

When you get further into searching your family and back close to the cut off date of 1809 you might want to look at the films titled " Processetti" which are files of the records that a couple needed to turn-in for the marriage.  The second page of their Marriage Act will list the documents in the Processetti for the marriage.  It's through some of the acts for the couple's parents that you can sometimes move back a generation beyond the cut-off of the records in 1809.

You can also use the search function on the first page to try and locate other dates and film #s for your family.  Searching your Grandfather's name, for example, yielded an IGI for the marriage of FORTUNATO ANTONIO D'IORIO, 27 DEC 1839   Coreno Ausonio, Frosinone, Italy to  MARIA TERESA RUGGIERO.  Since a 1839 marriage with the groom being aged 30y is probably too far back to be your Grandfather's parents, the possibility exists that this is the marriage of your Grandfather's DiOriopaternal grandparents.  This Fortunato's parents are given as  GIUSEPPE D'IORIO   & ANASTASIA VENTO and his bride's were  MATTEO RUGGIERO &  MARIA PARENTE.

The results page also gives the FHL film that the record is found on -  Matrimoni 1809-1813, 1816-1861 FHL INTL Film   1173763 Items 1-18.  Once you find the marriage of your Grandfather's parents, you will know if the Fortunato on this IGI is your Grandfather's grandfather.

Have fun.

Linda

sandras1012 <k9wife490@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hello. Im looking for any information on the birth of my Grandfather.
I have a paper from the italian army (need to get it translated) but
it states his parents names and the place/date of his birth. Would you
be able to help me find his birth certificate or any info on his
parents?? Any help is greatly greatly appreciated.

My Grandfather: Fortunato Di Iorio
date of birth: 1 October 1877
place of birth: Corcero Aussonio

My Grandfathers Fathers Name: Antonio (was a Tailor by trade)
My Grandfathers Mothers Name: Biasiotta Carolina

Thanks in advance.

---

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

---

To: FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com
From: dldvm@...
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:31:06 -0700
Subject: Re: [FraDiavolo] DiIorio Family in Gaeta

There is a priest by the name of Di Iorio in Massachussetts.  Di Iorio is also a Jewish Italian name so you can try that avenue too. 

 

andrea

sandras1012 <k9wife490@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hello. Im looking for any information on the birth of my Grandfather.
I have a paper from the italian army (need to get it translated) but
it states his parents names and the place/date of his birth. Would you
be able to help me find his birth certificate or any info on his
parents?? Any help is greatly greatly appreciated.

My Grandfather: Fortunato Di Iorio
date of birth: 1 October 1877
place of birth: Corcero Aussonio

My Grandfathers Fathers Name: Antonio (was a Tailor by trade)
My Grandfathers Mothers Name: Biasiotta Carolina

Thanks in advance.

Andrea N. Perkins

---

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

Hi Andrea,
Thanks for the information.  My family branch is definitely Catholic Italian... but I will try the priest..any info on how to contact him? 
 
Thanks Sandra

---

To: FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com
From: dldvm@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:31:06 -0700
Subject: Re: [FraDiavolo] DiIorio Family in Gaeta

There is a priest by the name of Di Iorio in Massachussetts.  Di Iorio is also a Jewish Italian name so you can try that avenue too. 

 

andrea

sandras1012 <k9wife490@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hello. Im looking for any information on the birth of my Grandfather.
I have a paper from the italian army (need to get it translated) but
it states his parents names and the place/date of his birth. Would you
be able to help me find his birth certificate or any info on his
parents?? Any help is greatly greatly appreciated.

My Grandfather: Fortunato Di Iorio
date of birth: 1 October 1877
place of birth: Corcero Aussonio

My Grandfathers Fathers Name: Antonio (was a Tailor by trade)
My Grandfathers Mothers Name: Biasiotta Carolina

Thanks in advance.

Andrea N. Perkins

---

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---

More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger.

Linda THANK YOU... Im at work at the moment so i will check on this tonight when i get home... not sure how to find the book you are speaking of as im new to this but i'll search around.... thanks a ton... You dont know what this means to me and my family.  This research is bringing our broken family back together.. thank you thank you.
 
God Bless,
Sandra

---

To: FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com
From: miyukichan0987@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 12:17:37 -0700
Subject: Re: [FraDiavolo] DiIorio Family in Gaeta

You're in luck!! 

For your Grandfather's comune, Coreno Ausonio,  in the Province of Frosinone the LDS was allowed to film records from 1809 to 1904 so you should be able to find not only your Grandfather's birth act but quite possibly the marriage act of his parents and if he married while still in Italy, his marriage as well.  Also the death acts of his parents.  From the marriage and death you can learn your Great-Grandparents' parents' names.  You will also find it fairly easy to build family groups.

Italian records will give you a wealth of information.  You should first look at the book "Italian Genealogical Records" by Trafford Cole, ISBN 0-916489-58-2 Chapter 6 Napoleonic Records.  Once you see a few of the records, you will easily catch on to what they are "saying" and the information you are seeing despite it being in Italian.

You will need to locate a Family History Center near you and go in to fill out the paperwork and fee ($5+/ea) for borrowing the microfilms from Salt Lake City.  Your FHC will notify you when the materials you requested arrive so that you can go in and research them.

The site you want to go to for getting the film #s and locating a FHC is familysearch.org  library tab and sub tabs FHL catalog & Family History Centers.

I looked up your films using the "Place" search mode  and simply entering  "Coreno Ausonio" which go me to the page hat gave me the films' title and # of reels of film; Registri dello stato civile, 1809-1904 - 19 reels of 35mm microfilm.  "View Film Notes" then told me what was on each reel of film.

For your Grandfather's birth in 1877 you will want to look at Nati 1865-1893 FHL INTL Film  1882501.  (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=15483&disp=Registri+dello+stato+civile++)

When you get further into searching your family and back close to the cut off date of 1809 you might want to look at the films titled " Processetti" which are files of the records that a couple needed to turn-in for the marriage.  The second page of their Marriage Act will list the documents in the Processetti for the marriage.  It's through some of the acts for the couple's parents that you can sometimes move back a generation beyond the cut-off of the records in 1809.

You can also use the search function on the first page to try and locate other dates and film #s for your family.  Searching your Grandfather's name, for example, yielded an IGI for the marriage of FORTUNATO ANTONIO D'IORIO, 27 DEC 1839   Coreno Ausonio, Frosinone, Italy to  MARIA TERESA RUGGIERO.  Since a 1839 marriage with the groom being aged 30y is probably too far back to be your Grandfather's parents, the possibility exists that this is the marriage of your Grandfather's DiOriopaternal grandparents.  This Fortunato's parents are given as  GIUSEPPE D'IORIO   & ANASTASIA VENTO and his bride's were  MATTEO RUGGIERO &  MARIA PARENTE.

The results page also gives the FHL film that the record is found on -  Matrimoni 1809-1813, 1816-1861 FHL INTL Film   1173763 Items 1-18.  Once you find the marriage of your Grandfather's parents, you will know if the Fortunato on this IGI is your Grandfather's grandfather.

Have fun.

Linda

sandras1012 <k9wife490@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hello. Im looking for any information on the birth of my Grandfather.
I have a paper from the italian army (need to get it translated) but
it states his parents names and the place/date of his birth. Would you
be able to help me find his birth certificate or any info on his
parents?? Any help is greatly greatly appreciated.

My Grandfather: Fortunato Di Iorio
date of birth: 1 October 1877
place of birth: Corcero Aussonio

My Grandfathers Fathers Name: Antonio (was a Tailor by trade)
My Grandfathers Mothers Name: Biasiotta Carolina

Thanks in advance.

---

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

---

Pack up or back up–use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. Learn how.

---

To: FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com
From: miyukichan0987@...
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 10:52:39 -0700
Subject: RE: [FraDiavolo] DiIorio Family in Gaeta

Sandra,

Try your local library system to see if they have a copy or two in their catalog.  With genealogy becoming such a widespread interest, more and more libraries are creating or expanding their genealogy collections and getting staff trained to assist.  Even my little local library....our town has a very small population just under 11,000 so you know the library isn't all that big...has a genealogy section and collection with someone on staff with genealogy research training.

If there is a fairly large Italian American influx/presence or had been in the past in the area of your local FHC, they too might have a copy of the book for you to use while there. My area saw a huge influx of Italians at the end of the 19th century/beginning of the 20th so my FHC has a copy of the book but I found myself wishing I had a copy for my own and received one for Christmas a few years back. 

I believe it was ordered from the Barnes & Noble or Borders Books at one of the nearby shopping malls.  You might also try on line either store and also at Amazon if purchasing new or used is in your plans.  Ancestry.com also has it and it's on sale right now - http://store.ancestry.com/ProductDetail.aspx?p=mfsku2122(shops)&PT=BooksGenealogyEthnicItalian(shops)

Also, if your family settled in the NYC area or if you have any ancestors in the NYC area even if non-Italian, you will find the site for The Italian Genealogical Group - http://www.italiangen.org/ - very useful. 

Another useful site for searching both the above IGG site, Castle Garden (where people came in at NYC before Ellis Island) and more importantly, the Ellis Island site is One Step Webpages by Steve Morse - http://stevemorse.org/

The most frustrating thing about researching Italian records is that there aren't more available to us here in the US via the LDS / FHL.  You're fairly lucky with the span of years covered for your family's ancestral home in that you have nearly 100 years of records available to you on microfilm.  For the town my grandparents came from, the LDS was only allowed to film from 1809 - 1865. 

I only knew when my grandparents married because someone went back and entered the information in the margin of my Grandfather's birth act.  And I didn't learn my Grandmother's birth date until last year with the help of a researcher in Italy...I researched the branch of his family that came here where I am and he went to the Archives over there and got my Grandmother's birth certificate for me.  BTW...I'm not all that ancient BUT my Italian family was huge which resulted in my being born nearly 90 years after my Grandparents birthdays!!

I also have access to the databases at Ancestry.com so post if you see something there that you can's access.  I've already spent the $$ so I don't mind.  No doubt others in the Group also have some level of Ancestry subscription as well and can help you with your post.   Your local library might also have on line access as might your FHC to Ancestry.com so check with them, too.  I have found however, that the library version of Ancestry.com isn't as comprehensive as the private subscription I have.

The one thing you need to know about Ancestry is that they have few Italian records if any...I've not encountered any anyway for my comune in Italy...so the things we would be able to try and find would be information for your family after they arrived in the US. 

As your research expands into other branches of your family, you will probably find that one of the levels of Ancestry subscription will be useful.  To start, you probably will want to try the 14 day free trial to access all their databases.  Doing that and searching my maternal and paternal families gave me a fairly good start and it wasn't until 2 years ago that I finally decided to blow the big bucks on an international subscription.  I'm researching ancestors in the US back to the 1600's as well as Italian, English, Irish, Dutch and French-Canadian ancestors so it has been worth the $$ for me especially since the Drouin records for the French Canadians became available last March.  No more trying to find time when the American French Genealogy Society is open to look for the ancestors up in Quebec.

Hope you find those Di Iorio"s of yours. 

Linda

PS - don't get too rigid about spelling with your names.  The vast majority of our ancestors had no schooling and were illiterate so the spelling that got entered into records was very much a function of how the person recording the information thought the name should be spelled.  Even with a spelling other than what is now accepted, as you get into your research you will learn to be able to tell if the person whose record you are looking at is your family or not.  I found for the most part with my Italian family that the spellings were relatively consistent.

Sandra Smith <k9wife490@hotmail.com> wrote:

Linda THANK YOU... Im at work at the moment so i will check on this tonight when i get home... not sure how to find the book you are speaking of as im new to this but i'll search around.... thanks a ton... You dont know what this means to me and my family.  This research is bringing our broken family back together.. thank you thank you.
 
God Bless,
Sandra

---

To: FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com
From: miyukichan0987@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 12:17:37 -0700
Subject: Re: [FraDiavolo] DiIorio Family in Gaeta

You're in luck!! 

For your Grandfather's comune, Coreno Ausonio,  in the Province of Frosinone the LDS was allowed to film records from 1809 to 1904 so you should be able to find not only your Grandfather's birth act but quite possibly the marriage act of his parents and if he married while still in Italy, his marriage as well.  Also the death acts of his parents.  From the marriage and death you can learn your Great-Grandparents' parents' names.  You will also find it fairly easy to build family groups.

Italian records will give you a wealth of information.  You should first look at the book "Italian Genealogical Records" by Trafford Cole, ISBN 0-916489-58-2 Chapter 6 Napoleonic Records.  Once you see a few of the records, you will easily catch on to what they are "saying" and the information you are seeing despite it being in Italian.

You will need to locate a Family History Center near you and go in to fill out the paperwork and fee ($5+/ea) for borrowing the microfilms from Salt Lake City.  Your FHC will notify you when the materials you requested arrive so that you can go in and research them.

The site you want to go to for getting the film #s and locating a FHC is familysearch.org  library tab and sub tabs FHL catalog & Family History Centers.

I looked up your films using the "Place" search mode  and simply entering  "Coreno Ausonio" which go me to the page hat gave me the films' title and # of reels of film; Registri dello stato civile, 1809-1904 - 19 reels of 35mm microfilm.  "View Film Notes" then told me what was on each reel of film.

For your Grandfather's birth in 1877 you will want to look at Nati 1865-1893 FHL INTL Film  1882501.  (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=15483&disp=Registri+dello+stato+civile++)

When you get further into searching your family and back close to the cut off date of 1809 you might want to look at the films titled " Processetti" which are files of the records that a couple needed to turn-in for the marriage.  The second page of their Marriage Act will list the documents in the Processetti for the marriage.  It's through some of the acts for the couple's parents that you can sometimes move back a generation beyond the cut-off of the records in 1809.

You can also use the search function on the first page to try and locate other dates and film #s for your family.  Searching your Grandfather's name, for example, yielded an IGI for the marriage of FORTUNATO ANTONIO D'IORIO, 27 DEC 1839   Coreno Ausonio, Frosinone, Italy to  MARIA TERESA RUGGIERO.  Since a 1839 marriage with the groom being aged 30y is probably too far back to be your Grandfather's parents, the possibility exists that this is the marriage of your Grandfather's DiOriopaternal grandparents.  This Fortunato's parents are given as  GIUSEPPE D'IORIO   & ANASTASIA VENTO and his bride's were  MATTEO RUGGIERO &  MARIA PARENTE.

The results page also gives the FHL film that the record is found on -  Matrimoni 1809-1813, 1816-1861 FHL INTL Film   1173763 Items 1-18.  Once you find the marriage of your Grandfather's parents, you will know if the Fortunato on this IGI is your Grandfather's grandfather.

Have fun.

Linda

sandras1012 <k9wife490@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hello. Im looking for any information on the birth of my Grandfather.
I have a paper from the italian army (need to get it translated) but
it states his parents names and the place/date of his birth. Would you
be able to help me find his birth certificate or any info on his
parents?? Any help is greatly greatly appreciated.

My Grandfather: Fortunato Di Iorio
date of birth: 1 October 1877
place of birth: Corcero Aussonio

My Grandfathers Fathers Name: Antonio (was a Tailor by trade)
My Grandfathers Mothers Name: Biasiotta Carolina

Thanks in advance.

---

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

---

Pack up or back up–use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. Learn how.

---

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

RI_Ancestors@...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RI_Ancestors/

To quote our esteemed Group leader, Arlan and with his OK, I post the
following -

"This is a new mail list where we can freely share and communicate
with other members who have Rhode Island
Genealogical/Ancestor/Historical interests, announce
meetings/reunions, discuss cemetery clean-ups,
customs, traditional foods common to Rhode Island, announce family
research sites

The Rhode Island Ancestors Group is made up of persons who have Rhode
Island and New England ancestors,
they are well versed in Rhode Island/New England Genealogy, History,
and Customs

They are here to help each other, help newbies, help anybody involved
in Genealogy in Rhode Island/New England

This is the same group of persons who were so helpful to others on the
RIGENWEB list until they were driven away or kicked off the list for
helping others."

I recently found my great grandfather Angelo Manzi was from Sonnino so
I thought I would join. Any other Manzi's here?

Jennifer

I recently found my great grandfather Angelo Manzi was from Sonnino so
I thought I would join. Any other Manzi's here?

Jennifer

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Okay, I have none of those surnames in my known tree so far as I can tell, no
relation. I haven't had a chance to go to an LDS center but I plan on it.

Jen

---- FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com wrote:

=============

I am the son of Pietro Sinapi and Rina La Rocca from Itri, Latina,
Italy. I stumbled upon this group and curious to see what everyone here
knows about us. My father's family names are Sinapi and Capotosto, my
mother's is La Rocca and Manzi...anyways, thought I would drop a line.

No La Rocca"s in my direct family line but I have the others with my
MANZI being MANZO which I don't know if this is a separate family or
just one of those spelling variations that get into the mix via the
people recording the information.  Spelling was pretty fluid for quite
a bit of history.  I think standardizations of spellings might be a
fairly recent thing in the grand scheme of things.

My entire family with the exception of Maria Teresa ROSATO is from
Itri as far back as I can trace in the records available to me which
would be 1809 - 1865.

3rd great-grandmother Maria Loreta SINAPI married to Benedetto FORNARO
b.  abt. 1852, d. 19 Aug 1832..I haven't been able to find any
dates/parents for Maria Loreta yet.  If I can find a death act for
her, it should tell me who were her parents. (FORNARO line)

3rd great-grandmother Catarina CAPOTOSTO b. abt. 1755 d. 7 May 1819
daughter of Crescenzo CAPOTOSTO & Felice CAPOBIANCO; married to Pompeo
CARDI b. - d. before 1819 (CARDI line)

3rd great grandfather Erasmantonio DI VONA b. abt. 1863 d. 5 May 1835
son of Nicola DI VONA & Maria Felice MANZO (DI VONA line)

All the families intertwine in Itri with an occasional outsider coming
in like my 2g-grandmother Rosato which I suppose happened because
there wasn't anyone distantly related enough of the right generation
available for a spouse...it was a small place so everyone is probably
related somehow...just like RI where so many Itrani's emmigrated to!

Linda Peloquin nee Fornaro





--- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, "psinap11" <psinap1@...> wrote:
>
> I am the son of Pietro Sinapi and Rina La Rocca from Itri, Latina,
> Italy. I stumbled upon this group and curious to see what everyone here
> knows about us. My father's family names are Sinapi and Capotosto, my
> mother's is La Rocca and Manzi...anyways, thought I would drop a line.
>

I am the son of Pietro Sinapi and Rina La Rocca from Itri, Latina,
Italy. I stumbled upon this group and curious to see what everyone here
knows about us. My father's family names are Sinapi and Capotosto, my
mother's is La Rocca and Manzi...anyways, thought I would drop a line.

That's interesting that you have a Capobianco in your tree Linda, my ex
boyfriend's name was CapAbianco which is a very rare variation.

Jen

---- FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com wrote:

=============

That's interesting that you have a Capobianco in your tree Linda, my ex boyfriend's name was CapAbianco which is a very rare variation.

Jen

---- FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com wrote:

=============

We have several of those surnames intertwined in our family - DiCrocco - from
Itri. Maria Capotosto b. 1817, m 3/13/1842 to Vincenzo Pannozzo - his father
Domenico b. 1780 & mother Olimpia Antonucci. Also Maria C. Manzo b. 1795 m.
12/06/1819 Salvatore DiCrocco b.1802. And I have record of a Maria Loreta
surname Zuena b, 5/30/1846 mother Lucia Sinape. father Domeniantonio Zuena,
Maybe some links for you?

We have several of those surnames intertwined in our family - DiCrocco - from Itri. Maria Capotosto b. 1817, m 3/13/1842 to Vincenzo Pannozzo - his father Domenico b. 1780 & mother Olimpia Antonucci. Also Maria C. Manzo b. 1795 m. 12/06/1819 Salvatore DiCrocco b.1802. And I have record of a Maria Loreta surname Zuena b, 5/30/1846 mother Lucia Sinape. father Domeniantonio Zuena, Maybe some links for you?

Linda,

That's funny, I can't believe people have done that. Talk about ridiculous.
Maybe there's a relation with her and his family. I know he has family in
Chicago, NH and VT, don't know about RI though. The A isn't actually capitalized
LOL, that was my emphasis.

Jen

Linda,

That's funny, I can't believe people have done that. Talk about ridiculous. Maybe there's a relation with her and his family. I know he has family in Chicago, NH and VT, don't know about RI though. The A isn't actually capitalized LOL, that was my emphasis.

Jen

Hi Jason (and all members of the Fra Diavolo Group),

We apolgise that it has been so long since we have been in contact,
but we have been through a really rough period just lately.  We hope
you will understand.

Just to remind you we are an English family now permanently living
here in Itri, Italy.

Louise's father was quite poorly, suffering from heart problems and
kidney failure.  We nursed him here at home in Itri, which included
daily dialysis treatments, except for periods when he was admitted to
hospital.  Sadly his condition steadily deteriorated and he died here
at "Tre Cancelle" at the end of March 2008.  We are gradually coming
to terms with losing him.  Louise also lost her mother, here in
Italy, 2 years ago.

So now it is just the 2 of us.

We have lots of work to catch up on, which we were unable to do
whilst caring for Dad.  We are busy trying to tidy up the olive grove
(between 500 and 600 trees) but there is so much of it, we will have
to do it in stages.  We have 2 olive workers who are currently
helping to teach Paul how to prune the trees to get them back into
shape and hopefully back into full production.

Plus we are busy with guests, this year we are doing quite well with
bookings here at "Tre Cancelle"
http://trecancelle.shapcott-family.com

Currently we have some family staying with us, and yesterday we took
them to Atina (Frosinone) to see the place where their Italian
ancestors were born and to meet the family living there for the first
time.  Louise's grandparents left Atina in 1911 and settled
in "Little Italy" in Clerkenwell, London.

So yesterday was quite a day!  There was also a procession as it was
the feast of Corpus Domini and the cobble stone roads were decorated
with carpets of flowers.  Here in Itri there was also
the "Infioriata".

Well, regarding the Baptism records for the Itri Church of San
Michele Arcangelo (1761 to 1788).

As we have mentioned before, things in Italy more often than not move
very slowly.  Things cannot be rushed !!!

This morning, one of our friends managed to organise an appointment
to meet Don Mario at the church and talk to him about the above
Baptism records.

We told him about the Fra Diavolo Group on the internet, and that
Jason Soccia had visited him in 2002.

He showed us the ancient register which consists of several hundred
pages.  He said that we would have to talk to the present Parish
Priest, Don Alfredo, about obtaining permission to take digital
photos of the register.  Don Mario is now retired, so it would
definitely have to be approved by Don Alfredo and possibly other
members of the clergy.  Don Mario is well into his 80's and is rather
frail, but seems to be a very kind man.

We think it would be helpful if perhaps Jason Soccia or someone
representing the Fra Diavolo Group were to personally write a letter
to Don Alfredo, explaining about the Fra Diavolo Group and
researching ancestors from Itri, and asking if it might be possible
to digitally record this register.

You would need to make clear the motive for doing this, explaining
that it would be for no financial gain.  I think you will need to
tread carefully, and be very couteous and polite.

If you are unable to write the letter in Italian, we can try to help
you translate it.  Then we will try to organise an appointment to see
him and pass on your letter etc.

Once again, we would be only to pleased to help with photographing
the register, if it meets with Don Alfredo's approval.

We are sorry that these things are not easy, and take time, but will
try to help you as best we can.

Patienza !!!

Very best wishes

Louise and Paul Shapcott

"Tre Cancelle", 04020 Itri (LT) Italy

http://trecancelle.shapcott-family.com

My father was Vincenzo Pannozzo (1885-1973)
of Fondi, Italy.  His father was
Salvatore Pannozzo, born about 1844
and his mother was Raphaela Filomena Carrocia.

The family was in Campodimele around 1800
and later moved to Fondi.

Also among my father's ancestors
is the name Sepe of which there
are many in Cranston, Rhode Island
were I grew up.

The spelling of my father's name
was changed from Pannozzo to Pannozzi
sometime around 1908 after he
came through Ellis Island.

James Pannozzi
Sarasota, Florida



--- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, Linda Peloquin <miyukichan0987@...>
wrote:
>
> The Maria Loreta I listed was a SINAPI by birth so that's her
maiden.  She was the wife of Benedetto FORNARO.
>
> Their marriage happened before the cutoff year of 1809.  Their son
Francesc'antonio FORNARO, my line,  was born abt. 1798 calculated from
his marriage act age.
>
> I've been trying to locate a birth act for Francesc'antonio via the
processetti but with the Vault Alert on them I don't even know if they
are still at the Warwick, RI FHC where I go & had them on indefinite
loan since I've not had any time in the past few months that I could
devote to going down there.
>
> I'm also still searching the films for the death acts of Maria
Loreta SINAPI hoping that she died after 1809 so I can learn who her
parents were and possibly find them on the 1754 catasto.
>
> I'm also looking for the death acts of her son  Francesc'antonio
FORNARO and his wife Maria Tomasina DE or DI LUCA so I can calculate
their birth years a bit closer in the event I can't find them in a
processetti.
>
> So far on this group of individuals - Benedetto FORNARO, wife Maria
Loreta SINAPI; their son Francesc'antonio FORNARO, his wife Maria
Tomasina DE / DI LUCA; and Maira Tomasina's parents Erasmantonio DI
LUCA and his wife Magnifica SOPRANO --
>
> I have found -
>
> 1. Death act for Benedetto d. 19 Aug 1832 b. abt. 1752
>
> 2. Probable entry for Benedetto in the 1754 catasto  was found son
to Antonio FORNARO, which was his father's name per death act, and
Tecla  FARGIORGIO Unfortunately, his mother was given as Doredea
FARGIORGIO in the death act and I've no way of proving if they are one
in the same woman or which given name might be a mistake or if her
name might have been a combination of the two names.   Additionally,
Benedetto's birth year figured from his age on the death act would be
1752 but the Benedetto on the 1754 catasto has an age of 6 years which
would put the birth year at 1748.  Again, I've no way of determining
if the age on the death act is inaccurate and they are one in the same
Benedetto or if Benedetto of the catasto died and the name was
recycled to a new son born after 1754 and the death act age is
incorrect.   Still looking for more records containing Benedetto or
his parents to help figure it out.
>
> 3. Death act for Erasmantonio DI LUCA d. 29 Aug 1825 b. abt. 1750
haven't located him on the catasto.  Erasmantonio's parents Giancinto
DI LUCA and Anna CAPOBIANCO do not appear in the 1754 catasto so
naturally, neither does he unless he is hidden somewhere in living
with relatives.
>
> 4. Death act for Magnifica SOPRANO, wife of Erasmantonio(above) d. 6
Sept 1831 b. abt. 1755, parents Pasquale & Angela Rosa ASSANJANTE
>
> 5. Marriage act for Francesc'antonio FORNARO  to Maria Tomasina DE
LUCA, 10 Feb 1823
>
> See any more "cousins"?  I'd be surprized if you didn't.
>
> Linda
>
> "B. J. Di Crocco" <BonVal@...> wrote:                             We
have several of those surnames intertwined in our family - DiCrocco -
from Itri. Maria Capotosto b. 1817, m 3/13/1842 to Vincenzo Pannozzo -
his father Domenico b. 1780 & mother Olimpia Antonucci. Also Maria C.
Manzo b. 1795 m. 12/06/1819 Salvatore DiCrocco b.1802. And I have
record of a Maria Loreta surname Zuena b, 5/30/1846 mother Lucia
Sinape. father Domeniantonio Zuena, Maybe some links for you?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>

Hello,
My firstname is Thibaut and i live in Paris (France).
My grandfather Armando MANZI was born in Itri, 31 march 1922. I came
live in France in 1950.
Her parents were Paolo MANZI (from Guiseppe and Concetta MAGGIACOMO)
born in 13 september 1891, and Theresa NOTARIANNI (from Antiono and
Angela SCIAPPA).
I know that some brother of Theresa NOTARIANNI are immigrate to USA.
A brother of my grandfather, joseph Manzi came live in USA, Rode
Island, Cranston, during 1962.
I hoppe, i can find here some information about my family in Italy, in
Usa or everywhere else.
Any other Manzi, Notarianni, Maggiacomo of my family are here ?
Excuse me for my English.
Thibaut

My grandparents were born in Caserta in the 1885. Carmela Dell'Aquila
and Domenico Angiello. If these names are familiar, please contact me.

Came across this group by accident, but found it very interesting....

Both my parents come from Itri. We still have family living in Itri.

Family names are Riccardi and Lorello. Anyone familar with those last

  names?  We currently live in the USA.