I just came across something that may be interesting for any-one
related to the postmaster (or whatever the role was) in Itri in 1864
or just collects stamps.

ebay is auctioning (ending 09-Jun-07) a stamp from 1864 which was
postmark in Itri.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190118934311&ssPageName=AD\
ME:B:SS:AU:1

vince sandrone

Hello, new guy here.

My name is Rick, and I live on Long Island, NY. I have been
researching my family name on my father's side, Iacueo. The Iacueos
originated almost exclusively in Itri, Italy. In the U.S., some
Iacueos settled in Cranston, RI, while others settled in NYC. The
Itri Square monument in Cranston includes the name Iacueo. In NYC,
the Iacueos resided mainly in lower Manhattan in the area around E.
10th Street after immigrating in the early 1900s.

Thanks to the LDS Western Europe Vital Records Index, I have managed
to put together a fairly substantial pedigree chart for the period
between the mid/late 1700s through the mid-1800s. That said, of
course there are also significant holes, particularly for the mid
1800s - early 1900s period as well as for the pre-1760s or so. Aside
from Iacueo, the family names on my chart (with in-laws) include
many familiar Itri surnames:

Agresti
Antocicco
Assaiante
Cannella
Capotosto
Cardi
Ciccarelli
Ciccone
Coleta
Corbo
D'Alena
Del Bove
De Luca
Di Biase
Di Luzzo
Di Maggio
Di Mascolo
Fargione
Fargiorgio
Filosa
Fiorentino
Giardino
Iudicone
Maggiacomo
Mancini
Marciano
Marino
Masella
Meroli
Meschino
Moretti
Notarianni
Papa
Paparello
Pezzuca
Picano
Riccardi
Ruggieri
Saccoccio
Santianni
Sinapi
Soscia
Speziale
Stamegna
Stravato
Suprano

I have ordered microfilm from my local LDSFHC, but I suspect that I
may not glean too much additional info that has not been already
included in the vital records index.

Has anyone gotten more info from the microfilm vs. the vital records
index?

I am also extremely interested in obtaining copies of both the 1754
and 1809(?) Catasti Onciari for Itri, as well as the pre-1800
baptism records. I would certainly appreciate it if someone with
these records could contact me; obviously I will pay whatever is
reasonable to obtain copies.

I have also become a great fan of the work that Joe Fidaleo has
done; his website is the model that I am working towards.

Finally and most importantly, I am looking forward to conversing
with my fellow Itrani descendents in this group!

Regards,

Rick J.

---

To: FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com
From: rickj100001@...
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:21:53 +0000
Subject: [FraDiavolo] Iacueo from Itri, Latina, Italy

Hello, new guy here.

My name is Rick, and I live on Long Island, NY. I have been
researching my family name on my father's side, Iacueo. The Iacueos
originated almost exclusively in Itri, Italy. In the U.S., some
Iacueos settled in Cranston, RI, while others settled in NYC. The
Itri Square monument in Cranston includes the name Iacueo. In NYC,
the Iacueos resided mainly in lower Manhattan in the area around E.
10th Street after immigrating in the early 1900s.

Thanks to the LDS Western Europe Vital Records Index, I have managed
to put together a fairly substantial pedigree chart for the period
between the mid/late 1700s through the mid-1800s. That said, of
course there are also significant holes, particularly for the mid
1800s - early 1900s period as well as for the pre-1760s or so. Aside
from Iacueo, the family names on my chart (with in-laws) include
many familiar Itri surnames:

Agresti
Antocicco
Assaiante
Cannella
Capotosto
Cardi
Ciccarelli
Ciccone
Coleta
Corbo
D'Alena
Del Bove
De Luca
Di Biase
Di Luzzo
Di Maggio
Di Mascolo
Fargione
Fargiorgio
Filosa
Fiorentino
Giardino
Iudicone
Maggiacomo
Mancini
Marciano
Marino
Masella
Meroli
Meschino
Moretti
Notarianni
Papa
Paparello
Pezzuca
Picano
Riccardi
Ruggieri
Saccoccio
Santianni
Sinapi
Soscia
Speziale
Stamegna
Stravato
Suprano

I have ordered microfilm from my local LDSFHC, but I suspect that I
may not glean too much additional info that has not been already
included in the vital records index.

Has anyone gotten more info from the microfilm vs. the vital records
index?

I am also extremely interested in obtaining copies of both the 1754
and 1809(?) Catasti Onciari for Itri, as well as the pre-1800
baptism records. I would certainly appreciate it if someone with
these records could contact me; obviously I will pay whatever is
reasonable to obtain copies.

I have also become a great fan of the work that Joe Fidaleo has
done; his website is the model that I am working towards.

Finally and most importantly, I am looking forward to conversing
with my fellow Itrani descendents in this group!

Regards,

Rick J.

Hello,
I worked through all the Itri microfilms for about 3 years. I wouldn't pass it up. It has much more
info. The Catasti 1754 was a chip-in deal organized by Jason Soscia. Contact him. If I can help
you, let me know. We had a lot of common names in our family tree.
 
Joe

---

To: FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com
From: rickj100001@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:21:53 +0000
Subject: [FraDiavolo] Iacueo from Itri, Latina, Italy

Hello, new guy here.

My name is Rick, and I live on Long Island, NY. I have been
researching my family name on my father's side, Iacueo. The Iacueos
originated almost exclusively in Itri, Italy. In the U.S., some
Iacueos settled in Cranston, RI, while others settled in NYC. The
Itri Square monument in Cranston includes the name Iacueo. In NYC,
the Iacueos resided mainly in lower Manhattan in the area around E.
10th Street after immigrating in the early 1900s.

Thanks to the LDS Western Europe Vital Records Index, I have managed
to put together a fairly substantial pedigree chart for the period
between the mid/late 1700s through the mid-1800s. That said, of
course there are also significant holes, particularly for the mid
1800s - early 1900s period as well as for the pre-1760s or so. Aside
from Iacueo, the family names on my chart (with in-laws) include
many familiar Itri surnames:

Agresti
Antocicco
Assaiante
Cannella
Capotosto
Cardi
Ciccarelli
Ciccone
Coleta
Corbo
D'Alena
Del Bove
De Luca
Di Biase
Di Luzzo
Di Maggio
Di Mascolo
Fargione
Fargiorgio
Filosa
Fiorentino
Giardino
Iudicone
Maggiacomo
Mancini
Marciano
Marino
Masella
Meroli
Meschino
Moretti
Notarianni
Papa
Paparello
Pezzuca
Picano
Riccardi
Ruggieri
Saccoccio
Santianni
Sinapi
Soscia
Speziale
Stamegna
Stravato
Suprano

I have ordered microfilm from my local LDSFHC, but I suspect that I
may not glean too much additional info that has not been already
included in the vital records index.

Has anyone gotten more info from the microfilm vs. the vital records
index?

I am also extremely interested in obtaining copies of both the 1754
and 1809(?) Catasti Onciari for Itri, as well as the pre-1800
baptism records. I would certainly appreciate it if someone with
these records could contact me; obviously I will pay whatever is
reasonable to obtain copies.

I have also become a great fan of the work that Joe Fidaleo has
done; his website is the model that I am working towards.

Finally and most importantly, I am looking forward to conversing
with my fellow Itrani descendents in this group!

Regards,

Rick J.

---

Change is good. See what's different about Windows Live Hotmail. Check it out!

I have read that the record-keeping that resulted in many of the
documents that were produced between 1806 and 1865 were the result of
an order from Napolean. Apparently, this record-keeping was abandoned
in Northern Italy after Napolean's defeat in 1815, but for some reason
was continued in the South until 1865. I'm not sure why it was
abandoned in the South at that particular time.

I seem to have a big black hole between about 1865 and the early
1900s, but it seems that some of you have gotten good info for that
period, and I am wondering what the source(s) of that info is. Does
the LDS microfilm contain info from that period? Or some other sources?

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Rick

I have read that the record-keeping that resulted in many of the
documents that were produced between 1806 and 1865 were the result of
an order from Napolean. Apparently, this record-keeping was abandoned
in Northern Italy after Napolean's defeat in 1815, but for some reason
was continued in the South until 1865. I'm not sure why it was
abandoned in the South at that particular time.

I seem to have a big black hole between about 1865 and the early
1900s, but it seems that some of you have gotten good info for that
period, and I am wondering what the source(s) of that info is. Does
the LDS microfilm contain info from that period? Or some other sources?

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Rick

Thanks Jason.

The Western Europe vital records CD for Itri does not contain
birth/christening records at all, at least on the CD that I
received. But I ordered the Itri birth records microfilm for 1855-
1865 from my local LDSFHC, so my strategy will be to first link the
births on those microfilm records to parents that I already have on
my chart, and second to connect those children to my comtemporary
knowledge of the family and possibly to death or other records
available in the USA.

That should go a considerable way to completing the Itri/USA
connection, but I realize that it will take more microfilm research
to establish a complete record, including those that did not
immigrate to the USA.

Again, any further guidance is completely welcomed and appreciated.

Rick


--- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, Jason S <jsoscia3@...> wrote:
>
> Rick,
>
>   As far as I know, you'd have to write to the Town Hall in Itri
for any information after 1865.  I did that for a couple of
documents.  Then it became more difficult to get more.  It takes a
while for them to get back to you and they can't handle a lot of
requests.  When I went to visit Itri, the archivist at the town hall
allowed me to look at the records and I was able to get more
information.
>
>   Jason
>
> rickj100001 <rickj100001@...> wrote:
>           I have read that the record-keeping that resulted in
many of the
> documents that were produced between 1806 and 1865 were the result
of
> an order from Napolean. Apparently, this record-keeping was
abandoned
> in Northern Italy after Napolean's defeat in 1815, but for some
reason
> was continued in the South until 1865. I'm not sure why it was
> abandoned in the South at that particular time.
>
> I seem to have a big black hole between about 1865 and the early
> 1900s, but it seems that some of you have gotten good info for
that
> period, and I am wondering what the source(s) of that info is.
Does
> the LDS microfilm contain info from that period? Or some other
sources?
>
> Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel
today!
>

I read in another thread where someone had questions as to why one of
his female ancestors left Itri for Marseilles, France, while the
female ancestor's husband remained behind in Itri. Apparently, this
occurred in at least a few Itri families.

This same phenomemon occurred in the Iacueo family when my great
grandmother and her children left Itri for Marseilles in the late
1800s/early 1900s. They eventually immigrated to the USA from
Marseilles to New York in 1908.

Does anyone have any information regarding the reason all of these
families moved from Itri to Marseilles? It's a great mystery to me.

Rick

I read in another thread where someone had questions as to why one of
his female ancestors left Itri for Marseilles, France, while the
female ancestor's husband remained behind in Itri. Apparently, this
occurred in at least a few Itri families.

This same phenomemon occurred in the Iacueo family when my great
grandmother and her children left Itri for Marseilles in the late
1800s/early 1900s. They eventually immigrated to the USA from
Marseilles to New York in 1908.

Does anyone have any information regarding the reason all of these
families moved from Itri to Marseilles? It's a great mystery to me.

Rick

Marie,

I wonder if the reason fewer people were sailing from Marseilles
than Naples isn't part of the answer.

It just seems to me that such a protracted separation between
husbands and wives and children must have been driven by something
more profound than easy access to boats to America. Jason made the
point that maybe it had to do with the availability of jobs.

Maybe these really are the real explanations, but it still makes me
wonder:

1) Why was it so important to leave Italy at this particular point
in time that families would separate and immigrate to a foreign
country (France, eventually USA)?

2) Why was it so much easier to get a boat to America from Havre
than from Naples at the time? Why so much demand to leave from
Naples?

I don't know the answers. I do know that Italy only became a united
republic in 1871. I know that the largest thrust of Italian
immigration to the USA began about 1880.

Based on this, I can only suspect that some kind of political
upheaval was at the root of the Itri-Marseilles migration. Of
course, this is all my own speculation.

I will continue to research, and I'd love to hear other opinions
about this.

Rick


--- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...>
wrote:
>
> I also saw this in my research.  I assumed it had to do with it
being easier to get a boat from Marseille to NY, than Naples to NY.
Far fewer people were sailing from Marseille.
>
> rickj100001 <rickj100001@...> wrote:          I read in another
thread where someone had questions as to why one of
> his female ancestors left Itri for Marseilles, France, while the
> female ancestor's husband remained behind in Itri. Apparently,
this
> occurred in at least a few Itri families.
>
> This same phenomemon occurred in the Iacueo family when my great
> grandmother and her children left Itri for Marseilles in the late
> 1800s/early 1900s. They eventually immigrated to the USA from
> Marseilles to New York in 1908.
>
> Does anyone have any information regarding the reason all of these
> families moved from Itri to Marseilles? It's a great mystery to me.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Need Mail bonding?
> Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
>

Marie,

I wonder if the reason fewer people were sailing from Marseilles
than Naples isn't part of the answer.

It just seems to me that such a protracted separation between
husbands and wives and children must have been driven by something
more profound than easy access to boats to America. Jason made the
point that maybe it had to do with the availability of jobs.

Maybe these really are the real explanations, but it still makes me
wonder:

1) Why was it so important to leave Italy at this particular point
in time that families would separate and immigrate to a foreign
country (France, eventually USA)?

2) Why was it so much easier to get a boat to America from Havre
than from Naples at the time? Why so much demand to leave from
Naples?

I don't know the answers. I do know that Italy only became a united
republic in 1871. I know that the largest thrust of Italian
immigration to the USA began about 1880.

Based on this, I can only suspect that some kind of political
upheaval was at the root of the Itri-Marseilles migration. Of
course, this is all my own speculation.

I will continue to research, and I'd love to hear other opinions
about this.

Rick

--- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...>
wrote:
>
> I also saw this in my research. I assumed it had to do with it
being easier to get a boat from Marseille to NY, than Naples to NY.
Far fewer people were sailing from Marseille.
>
> rickj100001 <rickj100001@...> wrote: I read in another
thread where someone had questions as to why one of
> his female ancestors left Itri for Marseilles, France, while the
> female ancestor's husband remained behind in Itri. Apparently,
this
> occurred in at least a few Itri families.
>
> This same phenomemon occurred in the Iacueo family when my great
> grandmother and her children left Itri for Marseilles in the late
> 1800s/early 1900s. They eventually immigrated to the USA from
> Marseilles to New York in 1908.
>
> Does anyone have any information regarding the reason all of these
> families moved from Itri to Marseilles? It's a great mystery to me.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Need Mail bonding?
> Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
>

Great points - all of them. Maybe I am reading too much into all of
this.

But my great-grandmother had 2 children after moving to Marseilles
from Itri, so she wasn't there just to catch the boat.

So it still makes me wonder why this happened at this particular
time and why so many families moved at the same time. It just seems
unusual because it had not happened previously to the extent that it
happended then.

Just another needle in a haystack of needles.



--- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...>
wrote:
>
> 1) Poverty and the myth that America's streets were paved with
gold.  Perhaps the unification of Italy was also a precipitating
factor though.  Hard to ignore that.
>
>   2) Far fewer French were immigrating so I assume not much of a
wait list.  Also, some of the immigrants actually worked on the
ships so essentially got a free passage.  Perhaps that was easier to
get from Marseille.
>
>   3) Such a demand from Naples since that location was the closest
for Southern Italians.  Genoa was also an important port of
departure, as was Palermo.  But I have seen reported that Marseille
was the 3rd busiest of the bunch for immigration.  Naples, the
first.
>
>
> rickj100001 <rickj100001@...> wrote:
>           Marie,
>
> I wonder if the reason fewer people were sailing from Marseilles
> than Naples isn't part of the answer.
>
> It just seems to me that such a protracted separation between
> husbands and wives and children must have been driven by something
> more profound than easy access to boats to America. Jason made the
> point that maybe it had to do with the availability of jobs.
>
> Maybe these really are the real explanations, but it still makes
me
> wonder:
>
> 1) Why was it so important to leave Italy at this particular point
> in time that families would separate and immigrate to a foreign
> country (France, eventually USA)?
>
> 2) Why was it so much easier to get a boat to America from Havre
> than from Naples at the time? Why so much demand to leave from
> Naples?
>
> I don't know the answers. I do know that Italy only became a
united
> republic in 1871. I know that the largest thrust of Italian
> immigration to the USA began about 1880.
>
> Based on this, I can only suspect that some kind of political
> upheaval was at the root of the Itri-Marseilles migration. Of
> course, this is all my own speculation.
>
> I will continue to research, and I'd love to hear other opinions
> about this.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I also saw this in my research. I assumed it had to do with it
> being easier to get a boat from Marseille to NY, than Naples to
NY.
> Far fewer people were sailing from Marseille.
> >
> > rickj100001 <rickj100001@> wrote: I read in another
> thread where someone had questions as to why one of
> > his female ancestors left Itri for Marseilles, France, while the
> > female ancestor's husband remained behind in Itri. Apparently,
> this
> > occurred in at least a few Itri families.
> >
> > This same phenomemon occurred in the Iacueo family when my great
> > grandmother and her children left Itri for Marseilles in the
late
> > 1800s/early 1900s. They eventually immigrated to the USA from
> > Marseilles to New York in 1908.
> >
> > Does anyone have any information regarding the reason all of
these
> > families moved from Itri to Marseilles? It's a great mystery to
me.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Marie Elena Saccoccio
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Need Mail bonding?
> > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers
users.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
vehicles.
> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
>

----- Original Message -----

From: rickj100001

To: FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 12:33 AM

Subject: [FraDiavolo] Re: Itri - Marseilles Connection?

Great points - all of them. Maybe I am reading too much into all of
this.

But my great-grandmother had 2 children after moving to Marseilles
from Itri, so she wasn't there just to catch the boat.

So it still makes me wonder why this happened at this particular
time and why so many families moved at the same time. It just seems
unusual because it had not happened previously to the extent that it
happended then.

Just another needle in a haystack of needles.

--- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...>
wrote:
>
> 1) Poverty and the myth that America's streets were paved with
gold. Perhaps the unification of Italy was also a precipitating
factor though. Hard to ignore that.
>
> 2) Far fewer French were immigrating so I assume not much of a
wait list. Also, some of the immigrants actually worked on the
ships so essentially got a free passage. Perhaps that was easier to
get from Marseille.
>
> 3) Such a demand from Naples since that location was the closest
for Southern Italians. Genoa was also an important port of
departure, as was Palermo. But I have seen reported that Marseille
was the 3rd busiest of the bunch for immigration. Naples, the
first.
>
>
> rickj100001 <rickj100001@...> wrote:
> Marie,
>
> I wonder if the reason fewer people were sailing from Marseilles
> than Naples isn't part of the answer.
>
> It just seems to me that such a protracted separation between
> husbands and wives and children must have been driven by something
> more profound than easy access to boats to America. Jason made the
> point that maybe it had to do with the availability of jobs.
>
> Maybe these really are the real explanations, but it still makes
me
> wonder:
>
> 1) Why was it so important to leave Italy at this particular point
> in time that families would separate and immigrate to a foreign
> country (France, eventually USA)?
>
> 2) Why was it so much easier to get a boat to America from Havre
> than from Naples at the time? Why so much demand to leave from
> Naples?
>
> I don't know the answers. I do know that Italy only became a
united
> republic in 1871. I know that the largest thrust of Italian
> immigration to the USA began about 1880.
>
> Based on this, I can only suspect that some kind of political
> upheaval was at the root of the Itri-Marseilles migration. Of
> course, this is all my own speculation.
>
> I will continue to research, and I'd love to hear other opinions
> about this.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I also saw this in my research. I assumed it had to do with it
> being easier to get a boat from Marseille to NY, than Naples to
NY.
> Far fewer people were sailing from Marseille.
> >
> > rickj100001 <rickj100001@> wrote: I read in another
> thread where someone had questions as to why one of
> > his female ancestors left Itri for Marseilles, France, while the
> > female ancestor's husband remained behind in Itri. Apparently,
> this
> > occurred in at least a few Itri families.
> >
> > This same phenomemon occurred in the Iacueo family when my great
> > grandmother and her children left Itri for Marseilles in the
late
> > 1800s/early 1900s. They eventually immigrated to the USA from
> > Marseilles to New York in 1908.
> >
> > Does anyone have any information regarding the reason all of
these
> > families moved from Itri to Marseilles? It's a great mystery to
me.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Marie Elena Saccoccio
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Need Mail bonding?
> > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers
users.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
vehicles.
> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
>

Great points - all of them. Maybe I am reading too much into all of
this.

But my great-grandmother had 2 children after moving to Marseilles
from Itri, so she wasn't there just to catch the boat.

So it still makes me wonder why this happened at this particular
time and why so many families moved at the same time. It just seems
unusual because it had not happened previously to the extent that it
happended then.

Just another needle in a haystack of needles.

--- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...>
wrote:
>
> 1) Poverty and the myth that America's streets were paved with
gold. Perhaps the unification of Italy was also a precipitating
factor though. Hard to ignore that.
>
> 2) Far fewer French were immigrating so I assume not much of a
wait list. Also, some of the immigrants actually worked on the
ships so essentially got a free passage. Perhaps that was easier to
get from Marseille.
>
> 3) Such a demand from Naples since that location was the closest
for Southern Italians. Genoa was also an important port of
departure, as was Palermo. But I have seen reported that Marseille
was the 3rd busiest of the bunch for immigration. Naples, the
first.
>
>
> rickj100001 <rickj100001@...> wrote:
> Marie,
>
> I wonder if the reason fewer people were sailing from Marseilles
> than Naples isn't part of the answer.
>
> It just seems to me that such a protracted separation between
> husbands and wives and children must have been driven by something
> more profound than easy access to boats to America. Jason made the
> point that maybe it had to do with the availability of jobs.
>
> Maybe these really are the real explanations, but it still makes
me
> wonder:
>
> 1) Why was it so important to leave Italy at this particular point
> in time that families would separate and immigrate to a foreign
> country (France, eventually USA)?
>
> 2) Why was it so much easier to get a boat to America from Havre
> than from Naples at the time? Why so much demand to leave from
> Naples?
>
> I don't know the answers. I do know that Italy only became a
united
> republic in 1871. I know that the largest thrust of Italian
> immigration to the USA began about 1880.
>
> Based on this, I can only suspect that some kind of political
> upheaval was at the root of the Itri-Marseilles migration. Of
> course, this is all my own speculation.
>
> I will continue to research, and I'd love to hear other opinions
> about this.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I also saw this in my research. I assumed it had to do with it
> being easier to get a boat from Marseille to NY, than Naples to
NY.
> Far fewer people were sailing from Marseille.
> >
> > rickj100001 <rickj100001@> wrote: I read in another
> thread where someone had questions as to why one of
> > his female ancestors left Itri for Marseilles, France, while the
> > female ancestor's husband remained behind in Itri. Apparently,
> this
> > occurred in at least a few Itri families.
> >
> > This same phenomemon occurred in the Iacueo family when my great
> > grandmother and her children left Itri for Marseilles in the
late
> > 1800s/early 1900s. They eventually immigrated to the USA from
> > Marseilles to New York in 1908.
> >
> > Does anyone have any information regarding the reason all of
these
> > families moved from Itri to Marseilles? It's a great mystery to
me.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Marie Elena Saccoccio
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Need Mail bonding?
> > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers
users.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
vehicles.
> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
>

My grandparents took their ship out of LeHavre, France in 1920.  Is that Marseilles or near it?  I don't believe they ever lived there.  They were from Terracina.  My question is how did they get to France?  Train, maybe?  I would love to find out and if anyone else had relatives on the Rochambeau!

They never really talked about anything other than my grandmother dressing like a man so she could remain with my grandfather on the trip over and that she was really seasick.

 

Pam - (Percoco, Masci, DelBono)

 

----- Original Message -----

From: rickj100001

To: FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 12:33 AM

Subject: [FraDiavolo] Re: Itri - Marseilles Connection?

Great points - all of them. Maybe I am reading too much into all of
this.

But my great-grandmother had 2 children after moving to Marseilles
from Itri, so she wasn't there just to catch the boat.

So it still makes me wonder why this happened at this particular
time and why so many families moved at the same time. It just seems
unusual because it had not happened previously to the extent that it
happended then.

Just another needle in a haystack of needles.

--- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...>
wrote:
>
> 1) Poverty and the myth that America's streets were paved with
gold. Perhaps the unification of Italy was also a precipitating
factor though. Hard to ignore that.
>
> 2) Far fewer French were immigrating so I assume not much of a
wait list. Also, some of the immigrants actually worked on the
ships so essentially got a free passage. Perhaps that was easier to
get from Marseille.
>
> 3) Such a demand from Naples since that location was the closest
for Southern Italians. Genoa was also an important port of
departure, as was Palermo. But I have seen reported that Marseille
was the 3rd busiest of the bunch for immigration. Naples, the
first.
>
>
> rickj100001 <rickj100001@...> wrote:
> Marie,
>
> I wonder if the reason fewer people were sailing from Marseilles
> than Naples isn't part of the answer.
>
> It just seems to me that such a protracted separation between
> husbands and wives and children must have been driven by something
> more profound than easy access to boats to America. Jason made the
> point that maybe it had to do with the availability of jobs.
>
> Maybe these really are the real explanations, but it still makes
me
> wonder:
>
> 1) Why was it so important to leave Italy at this particular point
> in time that families would separate and immigrate to a foreign
> country (France, eventually USA)?
>
> 2) Why was it so much easier to get a boat to America from Havre
> than from Naples at the time? Why so much demand to leave from
> Naples?
>
> I don't know the answers. I do know that Italy only became a
united
> republic in 1871. I know that the largest thrust of Italian
> immigration to the USA began about 1880.
>
> Based on this, I can only suspect that some kind of political
> upheaval was at the root of the Itri-Marseilles migration. Of
> course, this is all my own speculation.
>
> I will continue to research, and I'd love to hear other opinions
> about this.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I also saw this in my research. I assumed it had to do with it
> being easier to get a boat from Marseille to NY, than Naples to
NY.
> Far fewer people were sailing from Marseille.
> >
> > rickj100001 <rickj100001@> wrote: I read in another
> thread where someone had questions as to why one of
> > his female ancestors left Itri for Marseilles, France, while the
> > female ancestor's husband remained behind in Itri. Apparently,
> this
> > occurred in at least a few Itri families.
> >
> > This same phenomemon occurred in the Iacueo family when my great
> > grandmother and her children left Itri for Marseilles in the
late
> > 1800s/early 1900s. They eventually immigrated to the USA from
> > Marseilles to New York in 1908.
> >
> > Does anyone have any information regarding the reason all of
these
> > families moved from Itri to Marseilles? It's a great mystery to
me.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Marie Elena Saccoccio
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Need Mail bonding?
> > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers
users.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
vehicles.
> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
>

----- Original Message -----

From: marie saccoccio

To: FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 9:46 AM

Subject: Re: [FraDiavolo] Re: Itri - Marseilles Connection?

Pam, This is fasciniating.  My grandmother was a Masci/Sodi.  I think it is a good idea to put the family names in when we sign our posts.  My Masci/Sodi grandmother is very hard to track.  I have never found her and her sisters listed as "Sodi."  Perhaps I should have been looking for ship sailing from Marseille, rather than Naples, now that I think of it.  She was from Terracina also.  

Pamela Costa <photogenea@msn.com> wrote:

My grandparents took their ship out of LeHavre, France in 1920.  Is that Marseilles or near it?  I don't believe they ever lived there.  They were from Terracina.  My question is how did they get to France?  Train, maybe?  I would love to find out and if anyone else had relatives on the Rochambeau!

They never really talked about anything other than my grandmother dressing like a man so she could remain with my grandfather on the trip over and that she was really seasick.

 

Pam - (Percoco, Masci, DelBono)

 

----- Original Message -----

From: rickj100001

To: FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 12:33 AM

Subject: [FraDiavolo] Re: Itri - Marseilles Connection?

Great points - all of them. Maybe I am reading too much into all of
this.

But my great-grandmother had 2 children after moving to Marseilles
from Itri, so she wasn't there just to catch the boat.

So it still makes me wonder why this happened at this particular
time and why so many families moved at the same time. It just seems
unusual because it had not happened previously to the extent that it
happended then.

Just another needle in a haystack of needles.

--- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...>
wrote:
>
> 1) Poverty and the myth that America's streets were paved with
gold. Perhaps the unification of Italy was also a precipitating
factor though. Hard to ignore that.
>
> 2) Far fewer French were immigrating so I assume not much of a
wait list. Also, some of the immigrants actually worked on the
ships so essentially got a free passage. Perhaps that was easier to
get from Marseille.
>
> 3) Such a demand from Naples since that location was the closest
for Southern Italians. Genoa was also an important port of
departure, as was Palermo. But I have seen reported that Marseille
was the 3rd busiest of the bunch for immigration. Naples, the
first.
>
>
> rickj100001 <rickj100001@...> wrote:
> Marie,
>
> I wonder if the reason fewer people were sailing from Marseilles
> than Naples isn't part of the answer.
>
> It just seems to me that such a protracted separation between
> husbands and wives and children must have been driven by something
> more profound than easy access to boats to America. Jason made the
> point that maybe it had to do with the availability of jobs.
>
> Maybe these really are the real explanations, but it still makes
me
> wonder:
>
> 1) Why was it so important to leave Italy at this particular point
> in time that families would separate and immigrate to a foreign
> country (France, eventually USA)?
>
> 2) Why was it so much easier to get a boat to America from Havre
> than from Naples at the time? Why so much demand to leave from
> Naples?
>
> I don't know the answers. I do know that Italy only became a
united
> republic in 1871. I know that the largest thrust of Italian
> immigration to the USA began about 1880.
>
> Based on this, I can only suspect that some kind of political
> upheaval was at the root of the Itri-Marseilles migration. Of
> course, this is all my own speculation.
>
> I will continue to research, and I'd love to hear other opinions
> about this.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I also saw this in my research. I assumed it had to do with it
> being easier to get a boat from Marseille to NY, than Naples to
NY.
> Far fewer people were sailing from Marseille.
> >
> > rickj100001 <rickj100001@> wrote: I read in another
> thread where someone had questions as to why one of
> > his female ancestors left Itri for Marseilles, France, while the
> > female ancestor's husband remained behind in Itri. Apparently,
> this
> > occurred in at least a few Itri families.
> >
> > This same phenomemon occurred in the Iacueo family when my great
> > grandmother and her children left Itri for Marseilles in the
late
> > 1800s/early 1900s. They eventually immigrated to the USA from
> > Marseilles to New York in 1908.
> >
> > Does anyone have any information regarding the reason all of
these
> > families moved from Itri to Marseilles? It's a great mystery to
me.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Marie Elena Saccoccio
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Need Mail bonding?
> > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers
users.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
vehicles.
> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
>

Marie Elena Saccoccio

---

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

Rick,

I think you might have been refering to my post when you started this thread.  I, too, was puzzled as to why a poor family, and lets face it, our Itrani ancestors were way on the opposite end of the wealth spectum from the likes of Vanderbuilts and Astors, would go to the expense of sending part of the family to Marseilles and paying for them to live there for awhile before rejoining each other and continuing on to America.

Initially, given that my Grandmother gave birth to my Aunt Caroline in Marseilles, I had though that perhaps complications with the pregancy had led to her and my toddler Aunt Angelina getting off a boat and staying in France while my Grandfather went back to Itri to earn additional funds.  I've been poking around trying to answer my original question since.

Now, I don't know for certain if this is the correct answer, but it does seem to make sense.  I was told by an Italian instructor at some informal evening classes I've attended that after the reunifcation which, economically,  was great for the North but not so for the South, there was a large migration of population from the agriculturally based South to primarily the US.  I think we would all agree to that being accurate. 

But, the Italian government, not liking the loss of population, imposed a quota on the number of people who could leave which was what percipitated the family splits with some members of the family making the temporary stop over in Marseilles that so many of us have observed.

I haven't been able to find out much more than that so far but it did seem that there was an Italian district in Marseilles which would be consistant with the whole migration by stages to beat the quota theory.  Maybe someone else with a better nose for history than I will be able to turn up some definative information on a quota and/or the history of the city of Marseilles in the late 19th early - 20th cent.

Linda

rickj100001 <rickj100001@yahoo.com> wrote:

Great points - all of them. Maybe I am reading too much into all of
this.

But my great-grandmother had 2 children after moving to Marseilles
from Itri, so she wasn't there just to catch the boat.

So it still makes me wonder why this happened at this particular
time and why so many families moved at the same time. It just seems
unusual because it had not happened previously to the extent that it
happended then.

Just another needle in a haystack of needles.

--- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...>
wrote:
>
> 1) Poverty and the myth that America's streets were paved with
gold. Perhaps the unification of Italy was also a precipitating
factor though. Hard to ignore that.
>
> 2) Far fewer French were immigrating so I assume not much of a
wait list. Also, some of the immigrants actually worked on the
ships so essentially got a free passage. Perhaps that was easier to
get from Marseille.
>
> 3) Such a demand from Naples since that location was the closest
for Southern Italians. Genoa was also an important port of
departure, as was Palermo. But I have seen reported that Marseille
was the 3rd busiest of the bunch for immigration. Naples, the
first.
>
>
> rickj100001 <rickj100001@...> wrote:
> Marie,
>
> I wonder if the reason fewer people were sailing from Marseilles
> than Naples isn't part of the answer.
>
> It just seems to me that such a protracted separation between
> husbands and wives and children must have been driven by something
> more profound than easy access to boats to America. Jason made the
> point that maybe it had to do with the availability of jobs.
>
> Maybe these really are the real explanations, but it still makes
me
> wonder:
>
> 1) Why was it so important to leave Italy at this particular point
> in time that families would separate and immigrate to a foreign
> country (France, eventually USA)?
>
> 2) Why was it so much easier to get a boat to America from Havre
> than from Naples at the time? Why so much demand to leave from
> Naples?
>
> I don't know the answers. I do know that Italy only became a
united
> republic in 1871. I know that the largest thrust of Italian
> immigration to the USA began about 1880.
>
> Based on this, I can only suspect that some kind of political
> upheaval was at the root of the Itri-Marseilles migration. Of
> course, this is all my own speculation.
>
> I will continue to research, and I'd love to hear other opinions
> about this.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I also saw this in my research. I assumed it had to do with it
> being easier to get a boat from Marseille to NY, than Naples to
NY.
> Far fewer people were sailing from Marseille.
> >
> > rickj100001 <rickj100001@> wrote: I read in another
> thread where someone had questions as to why one of
> > his female ancestors left Itri for Marseilles, France, while the
> > female ancestor's husband remained behind in Itri. Apparently,
> this
> > occurred in at least a few Itri families.
> >
> > This same phenomemon occurred in the Iacueo family when my great
> > grandmother and her children left Itri for Marseilles in the
late
> > 1800s/early 1900s. They eventually immigrated to the USA from
> > Marseilles to New York in 1908.
> >
> > Does anyone have any information regarding the reason all of
these
> > families moved from Itri to Marseilles? It's a great mystery to
me.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Marie Elena Saccoccio
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Need Mail bonding?
> > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers
users.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
vehicles.
> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
>

---

Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

Rick,

I think you might have been refering to my post when you started this thread.  I, too, was puzzled as to why a poor family, and lets face it, our Itrani ancestors were way on the opposite end of the wealth spectum from the likes of Vanderbuilts and Astors, would go to the expense of sending part of the family to Marseilles and paying for them to live there for awhile before rejoining each other and continuing on to America.

Initially, given that my Grandmother gave birth to my Aunt Caroline in Marseilles, I had though that perhaps complications with the pregancy had led to her and my toddler Aunt Angelina getting off a boat and staying in France while my Grandfather went back to Itri to earn additional funds.  I've been poking around trying to answer my original question since.

Now, I don't know for certain if this is the correct answer, but it does seem to make sense.  I was told by an Italian instructor at some informal evening classes I've attended that after the reunifcation which, economically,  was great for the North but not so for the South, there was a large migration of population from the agriculturally based South to primarily the US.  I think we would all agree to that being accurate. 

But, the Italian government, not liking the loss of population, imposed a quota on the number of people who could leave which was what percipitated the family splits with some members of the family making the temporary stop over in Marseilles that so many of us have observed.

I haven't been able to find out much more than that so far but it did seem that there was an Italian district in Marseilles which would be consistant with the whole migration by stages to beat the quota theory.  Maybe someone else with a better nose for history than I will be able to turn up some definative information on a quota and/or the history of the city of Marseilles in the late 19th early - 20th cent.

Linda

rickj100001 <rickj100001@yahoo.com> wrote:

Great points - all of them. Maybe I am reading too much into all of
this.

But my great-grandmother had 2 children after moving to Marseilles
from Itri, so she wasn't there just to catch the boat.

So it still makes me wonder why this happened at this particular
time and why so many families moved at the same time. It just seems
unusual because it had not happened previously to the extent that it
happended then.

Just another needle in a haystack of needles.

--- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@...>
wrote:
>
> 1) Poverty and the myth that America's streets were paved with
gold. Perhaps the unification of Italy was also a precipitating
factor though. Hard to ignore that.
>
> 2) Far fewer French were immigrating so I assume not much of a
wait list. Also, some of the immigrants actually worked on the
ships so essentially got a free passage. Perhaps that was easier to
get from Marseille.
>
> 3) Such a demand from Naples since that location was the closest
for Southern Italians. Genoa was also an important port of
departure, as was Palermo. But I have seen reported that Marseille
was the 3rd busiest of the bunch for immigration. Naples, the
first.
>
>
> rickj100001 <rickj100001@...> wrote:
> Marie,
>
> I wonder if the reason fewer people were sailing from Marseilles
> than Naples isn't part of the answer.
>
> It just seems to me that such a protracted separation between
> husbands and wives and children must have been driven by something
> more profound than easy access to boats to America. Jason made the
> point that maybe it had to do with the availability of jobs.
>
> Maybe these really are the real explanations, but it still makes
me
> wonder:
>
> 1) Why was it so important to leave Italy at this particular point
> in time that families would separate and immigrate to a foreign
> country (France, eventually USA)?
>
> 2) Why was it so much easier to get a boat to America from Havre
> than from Naples at the time? Why so much demand to leave from
> Naples?
>
> I don't know the answers. I do know that Italy only became a
united
> republic in 1871. I know that the largest thrust of Italian
> immigration to the USA began about 1880.
>
> Based on this, I can only suspect that some kind of political
> upheaval was at the root of the Itri-Marseilles migration. Of
> course, this is all my own speculation.
>
> I will continue to research, and I'd love to hear other opinions
> about this.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In FraDiavolo@yahoogroups.com, marie saccoccio <saccocciom@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I also saw this in my research. I assumed it had to do with it
> being easier to get a boat from Marseille to NY, than Naples to
NY.
> Far fewer people were sailing from Marseille.
> >
> > rickj100001 <rickj100001@> wrote: I read in another
> thread where someone had questions as to why one of
> > his female ancestors left Itri for Marseilles, France, while the
> > female ancestor's husband remained behind in Itri. Apparently,
> this
> > occurred in at least a few Itri families.
> >
> > This same phenomemon occurred in the Iacueo family when my great
> > grandmother and her children left Itri for Marseilles in the
late
> > 1800s/early 1900s. They eventually immigrated to the USA from
> > Marseilles to New York in 1908.
> >
> > Does anyone have any information regarding the reason all of
these
> > families moved from Itri to Marseilles? It's a great mystery to
me.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Marie Elena Saccoccio
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Need Mail bonding?
> > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers
users.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie Elena Saccoccio
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
vehicles.
> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
>

---

Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

Hi everyone,

 

I talked to my father today. Many Itrani's went to France for work. Marseilles the main area where they worked the ports. Also Mentz in Northern France was another area where Itrani's went. They went to work the coal mines.

 

Greg Pezza

---

See what's free at AOL.com.

Hi everyone,

 

I talked to my father today. Many Itrani's went to France for work. Marseilles the main area where they worked the ports. Also Mentz in Northern France was another area where Itrani's went. They went to work the coal mines.

 

Greg Pezza

---

See what's free at AOL.com.