This group will discuss all subjects related to sustainable and independent living in urban and suburban areas. Suggested topics will include; Homestead, Intentional Community, Garden and storage of food, Permaculture, Rainwater harvesting including water treatment and distribution systems, PV and other alternative energy sources and systems, Shelter design specific to low energy use and off the grid life style, and alternative home building methods and materials. Politics, religion, surviving the coming hard times, entrance to the next world of human existence, and related topics are welcome if discussion includes solutions to independent living relative to Food, Water, and Shelter.