Jason Henderson to David Ferguson:

David said:
"Jason, I would be reluctant to criticize someone for observing
Jewish holidays, unless they say it is something we MUST do.  We do
have some liberty to follow our conscience, and as I pointed out in
an earlier post the first century Jews were not commanded to STOP
being Jews.  They were commanded to follow Christ."

My response:
You're probably right.  It just doesn't seem right to me.  Its not
like they're sacrificing a lamb or anything.

About the 10 commandments:
I worry about it being perceived by non-Christians as teaching
salvation through works as well.  Its one of those things that you
might be able to do, but its like your walking a tight rope or along
the edge of a cliff.  Watch out, its a long way down.

regards,
Jason

--- In Focus_On_Truth@yahoogroups.com, David Ferguson
<davidferguson61@y...> wrote:
> David Ferguson to Jason Henderson:
>
> I believe you are correct in your assessment that some
> things get taken too far, as your article
> demonstrated.
>
> Christians have a special place with God, and that is
> the way it has been since at least the founding of the
> church: "Jesus saith unto him, 'I am the way, and the
> truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father,
> but by Me.'"  (John 14:6)  If the Jews reject Jesus,
> they have no part with God.  John the Baptist said,
> "Bring forth therefore fruit worthy of repentance: and
> think not to say within yourselves, 'We have Abraham
> to our father:' for I say unto you, that God is able
> of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.'"
> (Matthew 3:8-9)  Those who follow the will of God are
> His children: "The Spirit Himself beareth witness with
> our spirit, that we are children of God: and if
> children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs
> with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we
> may be also glorified with Him."  (Romans 8:16-17)
>
> Jason, I would be reluctant to criticize someone for
> observing  Jewish holidays, unless they say it is
> something we MUST do.  We do have some liberty to
> follow our conscience, and as I pointed out in an
> earlier post the first century Jews were not commanded
> to STOP being Jews.  They were commanded to follow
> Christ.
>
> Jason said: "Another thing I see that kind of disturbs
> me is the fixation some Christians have with the 10
> commandments.  This can be taken too far as well.
> Care to comment on that?"
>
> I am going to try and have it both ways with this one.
>  I agree that many get caught up in "keeping" these,
> almost to the point of teaching or believing salvation
> by works.  On the other hand, there IS severe
> persecution of Christians taking place in this
> country, and it seems to be getting worse.  That is
> why I get a bit upset when I see judges ordering the
> removal of the 10 commandments or any "symbol" of
> Christianity from public view.  I think we in the
> brotherhood have been rather silent about this, and
> have been reluctant to join in the fight against the
> discrimination against Christianity, because of the
> perception that we would be "fellowshipping" those in
> the denominatinal world.
>
> That, at least, is my opinion, for whatever it's
> worth.  I certainly could be wrong.
>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

David Ferguson to Ken Matthews and all:

Ken, look what Paul also said in Romans chapter 7:
"For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
but I see a different law in my members, warring
against the law of my mind, and bringing me into
captivity under the law of sin which is in my members.
  Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of
the body of this death?  I thank God through Jesus
Christ our Lord.  So then I of myself with the mind,
indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the
law of sin."  (Romans 7:22-25)

I find this very comforting, knowing that Paul, a
chosen apostle of Christ, struggled with sin!  He is
saying to everyone, "I am just as you are!"  Not past
tense, but present tense!  He still sinned, even
though he was saved in Christ.  But then he adds, "But
the grace of God is sufficient to cover my sins."  He
keeps his mind, his heart, focused on God, knowing
that in the end God will still save him!

What a God and Savior we have!

In Him,

David



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Ken Mathews to David_cambridge.

> I would also like to know what types of sermons you personally
feel
> are the most benificial for you and why?

Sermons on how to live a christian life are helpful to me.  Most in
the church I think like doctrinal sermons. In contrast, I have seen
that those who grow up in the church like doctrinal sermons but need
sermons on living the Christian life. New Christians want to know
how to life a good Christian life.

I would preach on what would benifit the local Church myself.  Where
I preach we have an older crowd, who have already raised their
families- so to preach on raising kids seems like a mute point.

Types of sermons.  Your on the right tract with topical and
expository.  I try to literally experience the sermons I work on.
But that is an other topic.

In His Grip

Ken Mathews


--- In Focus_On_Truth@yahoogroups.com, "David Cambridge"
<david_cambridge@y...> wrote:
>
> To all list members from David Cambridge.
>
> A warm welcome to everyone.
>
> I want to write a comprehensive article about sermons and I would
> appreciate anyone's thoughts and comments.
>
> I would like to know your views and thoughts on the following:
>
> What types of sermons are there? I suppose the two most common
types
> that spring to mind are topical and expositary sermons. But are
> there other types? As well as main types, I need subcategories as
> well. The more extenxsive your thoughts the better.
>
> I would also like to know what types of sermons you personally
feel
> are the most benificial for you and why?
>
> I thank you all in advance for your help.
>
> David

Ken Mathews to group,

David used a verse in a recent post

"The Spirit Himself beareth witness with
our spirit, that we are children of God: and if
children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs
with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we
may be also glorified with Him." (Romans 8:16-17)

I have always found this a most fascinating verse, in fact the whole
chapter of Romans 8 is a powerful chapter. I have done much study on
man's spirit.  How is it you think the spirit of God bears witness
with our spirit? Do you think that our spirit, every man's spirit
knows it came from God? I am convinced that our individual spirit
has a mind and heart. And that our carnal nature has a mind and
heart of its own.  I may be treading to deep, forgive me if I am.

I have been preaching since 1984, know a lot of brothers and sisters
in Christ. We seem to struggle needlessly with our flesh and this
world. If we are convinced that the spirit of God bears witness with
our spirit, and we are God's very children, then we should live more
joyful lives.

This verse is a truth and the freedom that comes from the verse is
freedom to live above the plane of the world knowing that we are
God's very children. You and I can rejoice in that, no matter what
we face in this life. But many don't.  I have known a man for ten
years, that knows the bible very very well.  A great bible teacher.
A very scholarly man.  But he is always anxious, worrying, and
depressed. He has seemingly no liberty in Christ.  I have studied
him to try and figure out how he can have so much bible knowledge
and live such a defeated life. And I know that if you have been in
the church long you have seen the same thing.

Personally, I lived that way most of my life while preaching the
gospel, several years ago I told myself- enough is enough. This is
not right.  And I determined to understand why I lived like that and
what to do about it.

This may give you insight into my post.

Have a great day.

For His Glory
Ken Mathews

To all listers from David Cambridge

This is the frist of four sermon outlines in a series
called 'Answering Criticisms'.


Answering Criticisms
"All Christians Are Hypocrites"

Introduction

1. This is quite a criticism! Both unbelievers and believers alike
often level it against Christians for a variety of reasons.

2. We shall consider several aspects of this accusation.

I. What Is A Hypocrite?

A. Definitions:

1. The word "hypocrisy" is from the Greek word "hupokrisis" meaning
literally, "To answer, play-acting, hence, pretence." (Vine, page
241).

2. "A hypocrite is a person who attempts to live two lives
simultaneously: the public persona is an act or pretence. The real
persona is lived out in private. In many cases, though, such people
are often `caught out' when they are seen in private behaving
contrary to their public persona or when their true persona
`peeks
out' in public." (Quotes & Things, D. Collins).

B. In Christianity, then, a hypocrite is one who professes to live
according to the teachings of the Scriptures but whose behavior is
contradictory of such. However, one must make a clear distinction
between one who walks in hypocrisy and one who walks sincerely but
stumbles from time-to-time.

1. A hypocritical person - this is a person whose life-style is one
of pretence. This person pretends to live according to Christian
principles in public but, in private, lives contrary to such. This
is one who is pretending to be religious because of some advantage
that this brings.

2. A sincere person – this is a person who consistently lives a
lifestyle according to Christian principles, both in public and in
private. However, from time-to-time, they will slip and stumble,
acting contrary to Christian principles.

C. It is important to understand that when one slips or errs from
time-to-time, that this does not mean that one is a hypocrite. Here
are two illustrations:

"John was known for his thrifty life-style and mean spirit. He
never
helped his neighbors, never gave to charity, in short, he didn't
care about anyone or anything. Yet one day, he came across a young
girl in hospital who was constantly crying out in pain and who had
but a short time to live. `What's wrong with her?' he
asked. `She
has a rare disease and has just a few hours to live. The medicine to
save her is available but is has to come from abroad and is too
expensive for this hospital to purchase,' explained the doctor.
The
young girl's cries became louder as the disease ate away her
internal organs. John was suddenly moved with compassion. He paid
for both the medicine; it's transportation from abroad and the
girl's rehabilitation. But John continued to live his selfish and
uncaring life and considered that episode as merely a moment of
weakness. No one cared when John died at the age of 72 and he was
buried in the local cemetery. Don't bother looking for his grave,
he
was to mean to pay for a headstone."

"Becky had been a faithful Christian all her life. She was known
for
her great kindness in providing for the needy and her generosity to
various charities. However, on one occasion she was enticed by
her `friends' to attend a birthday party where she got drunk
and
made a fool of herself. When she sobered up and realized what she
had done, she was very remorseful and prayed earnestly that God
would forgive her for her sin. You can be sure that she never done
such a thing ever again. The rest of her life was filled with good
works and she was admired by all. She died in a road accident at 44
years old. Her funeral was a grand occasion and attended by all her
family, all the brethren from the church, and all the people she had
shown kindness to over the years. She was buried in the local
cemetery. Her grave is not hard to find and is the best kept grave
in the whole cemetery."

1. In the first example, John lived a life that was selfish and
uncaring. His one act of kindness was certainly memorable but, in
the end, he was remembered for what he really was.

2. In the second example, Becky lived a life that was unselfish and
caring. Her one act of foolishness was certainly an embarrassing
memory but, in the end, she was remembered for what she really was.

II. Who Makes Such An Accusation?

A. Christians who are on the verge of falling away or who have
fallen away will often seek to justify such by labeling their
brethren as hypocrites.

B. Non-Christians:

1. Those who reject Christianity will often justify such on the
basis that `the church is full of hypocrites.'

2. Some seek to dissuade their Christian partners by labeling all
Christians as hypocrites.

III. What Gives Rise To Such An Accusation?

A. It is true that there are hypocrites within the church. Whether
Christian or non-Christian, we have all, no doubt, known or know
people whose lifestyle is contrary to their profession.

1. The apostle Paul acknowledged that some preached Jesus from other
than fine motives:

"Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of
good will:" (Philippians 1:15)

2. Ananias and Sapphira are two well-known hypocrites (Acts 5:1-11).

B. However, to say that all Christians are hypocrites is not true
and I suspect that those who make such a statement do not believe it
themselves.

1. History is replete with examples of men and women who laid down
their lives, suffering horrible deaths rather than deny Christ; a
hypocrite would hardly be willing to do so.

a. Most people are familiar with the accounts of those early
Christians who suffered excruciatingly painful torture and death at
the hands Nero? Christians were thrown to the lions and many were
covered in oil and used as lanterns to light Nero's gardens. It
is a
gross insult to read of these accounts and call these Christians
hypocrites!

b. In relatively recent times, men such as William Tindale suffered
greatly for their faith…were these also hypocrites?

2. The following Scriptures demonstrate the sincerity of certain men:

a. Peter and John were arrested, interrogated, beaten, and
threatened not to preach anymore in the name of Jesus (Acts 5:26-
40). Despite these things, the apostles continued preaching (Acts
5:41-42). These are the actions of ones who are sincere.

b. A Pharisee named Saul was persecuting the church and having those
who professed to be Christians thrown into jail (Acts 8:3-4). Yet
these Christians (at least those who were sincere) did not turn back
on there faith.

c. Paul and Silas were imprisoned for preaching Jesus but this did
not deter them (Acts 16:16-17:4).

IV. Are You Deceiving Yourself?

A. While it is true that there are hypocrites in the church, we
ask, "Is this a valid reason for your disobedience?"

1. To Christians who are on the brink of falling away, and those who
have fallen away.

a. Yes, there are hypocrites in the church but this does not in
anyway detract from the truth. Whether people practice Christianity
sincerely or not, the truth is the truth.

"I have been a Christian for near on twenty five years and in
this
time I have known Christians who were liars, thieves, homosexuals,
drunkards, etc. Yet such hypocrisy has never led me to deny that
what Jesus teaches is untrue or invalid. If all who claim to be
Christians are hypocrites and I am the only one who is sincere then
so be it. I will remain faithful to God until I draw my last breath.
I cannot deny truth simply because others do not practice it"
(Quotes & Things, D. Collins).

b. You must not let other people's failings discourage you to the
point of unfaithfulness.

1) Judas, one of the twelve, was a thief but his hypocrisy did not
deter the other apostles.

2) The hypocrisy of Ananias and Sapphira did not deter the other
brethren.

c. If you are on the verge of falling away or have completed the
process then do not deceive yourself and seek to blame others for
your unfaithfulness. The reason for your unfaithfulness is within
YOU. It is the deceitfulness of sin that has leads to unbelief:

"He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the
word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches,
choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful." (Matthew 13:22)

"12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of
unbelief, in departing from the living God.13But exhort one another
daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened
through the deceitfulness of sin." (Hebrews 3:12-13)

"But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust,
and enticed." (James 1:14)

2. To non-Christians who reject the gospel or seek to discourage
their partners:

a. Yes, there are hypocrites in the church but there are, more than
likely, hypocrites in your workplace, your social club…even some
of
your friends are probably hypocrites! Yet you still go to work, etc.
You need to stop deceiving yourself and face up to the real reason
that you that reject the gospel…because you prefer to live an
immoral life!

" 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were
evil.20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither
cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:19-
20)

b. Further, you may choose to reject the gospel but you no right to
dissuade anyone else from being a Christian. You have to respect the
choice that others make - Just as they have to respect your choice.
But your hostility is not totally unexpected for Jesus says…

"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew
10:36)

B. The hypocrisy of others is not a valid reason to reject
Christianity. The truth is still the truth and the choice you make
is entirely YOUR responsibility. Consider this final thought…

"When I was at school, I found that I was one of only a few boys
that were actually interested in getting an education. We were a
small minority that buckled down to hard work in the classroom and
stayed up late to get our homework done. The other boys in my class
seemed to spend most of their time horsing around and
generally `having fun.' Who were these pretenders? Why were
these
hypocrites allowed to continue coming to school? Well, despite these
hypocrites, we remained at school, continued to work hard,
graduated, and obtained good jobs with reasonable salaries.
Likewise, despite the hypocrites, let us remain faithful to God and
reap the reward of eternal life" (Quotes & Things, D. Collins).

Conclusion

1. The accusation that ALL Christians are hypocrites is a rash,
thoughtless, insulting, and untrue statement. Where there are
companies, organizations, clubs, churches, etc., you will find
hypocrites. But whether a majority or minority, there will also be
those who are sincere in what they are doing.

2. The hypocrisy of others is neither an excuse for your
unfaithfulness nor an excuse for trying to deter others from
practicing Christianity. The real reason for your unfaithfulness or
rejection of the gospel is WITHIN YOU.

3. Messages:

a. To the unfaithful and unbeliever:

" 28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will
give you rest.29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am
meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your
souls.30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (Matthew 11:28-
30)

"1The Lord calls out to you with open arms all the day long.
2Though
His judgments terrify, He does not wish you harm. 3What does the
Lord require? That you turn again and put away your deceit and live
according to righteousness. 4For the Lord is full of mercy and
compassion and He calls you before your life expires. 5Therefore,
heed the word of the Lord and you will find mercy. 6For the Lord
does not desire your destruction. For the Lord delights in showing
mercy" (Psalm 5, Quotes & Things, D. Collins).

b. To the faithful:

" 23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering;
(for he is faithful that promised;)24And let us consider one another
to provoke unto love and to good works:25Not forsaking the
assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but
exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day
approaching.26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the
knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for
sins,27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery
indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." (Hebrews 10:23-27)

To all list members from David Cambridge.

A warm welcome to everyone.

I want to write a comprehensive article about sermons and I would
appreciate anyone's thoughts and comments.

I would like to know your views and thoughts on the following:

What types of sermons are there? I suppose the two most common types
that spring to mind are topical and expositary sermons. But are
there other types? As well as main types, I need subcategories as
well. The more extenxsive your thoughts the better.

I would also like to know what types of sermons you personally feel
are the most benificial for you and why?

I thank you all in advance for your help.

David

David Ferguson to Jason Henderson:

I believe you are correct in your assessment that some
things get taken too far, as your article
demonstrated.

Christians have a special place with God, and that is
the way it has been since at least the founding of the
church: "Jesus saith unto him, 'I am the way, and the
truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father,
but by Me.'"  (John 14:6)  If the Jews reject Jesus,
they have no part with God.  John the Baptist said,
"Bring forth therefore fruit worthy of repentance: and
think not to say within yourselves, 'We have Abraham
to our father:' for I say unto you, that God is able
of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.'"
(Matthew 3:8-9)  Those who follow the will of God are
His children: "The Spirit Himself beareth witness with
our spirit, that we are children of God: and if
children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs
with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we
may be also glorified with Him."  (Romans 8:16-17)

Jason, I would be reluctant to criticize someone for
observing  Jewish holidays, unless they say it is
something we MUST do.  We do have some liberty to
follow our conscience, and as I pointed out in an
earlier post the first century Jews were not commanded
to STOP being Jews.  They were commanded to follow
Christ.

Jason said: "Another thing I see that kind of disturbs
me is the fixation some Christians have with the 10
commandments.  This can be taken too far as well.
Care to comment on that?"

I am going to try and have it both ways with this one.
  I agree that many get caught up in "keeping" these,
almost to the point of teaching or believing salvation
by works.  On the other hand, there IS severe
persecution of Christians taking place in this
country, and it seems to be getting worse.  That is
why I get a bit upset when I see judges ordering the
removal of the 10 commandments or any "symbol" of
Christianity from public view.  I think we in the
brotherhood have been rather silent about this, and
have been reluctant to join in the fight against the
discrimination against Christianity, because of the
perception that we would be "fellowshipping" those in
the denominatinal world.

That, at least, is my opinion, for whatever it's
worth.  I certainly could be wrong.

Regards,

David



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David Ferguson to Joe Hanley and others:

Joe, I am one who believes that the book of Revelation
was written to the first century Christians prior to
the destruction of Jerusalem, and I have been giving a
series of lessons in our congregation covering this
apocalyptic book.  What you said regarding the phrases
"must shortly come to pass" and "for the time is at
hand" in Rev. 1:1 and 1:3 is what I have been
stressing: the same phraseology was used by John the
Baptist in his ministry, as well as early on in Jesus'
ministry, regarding the coming kingdom.  I believe the
persecution suffered at the hands of the Roman
government by the early Christians was what John was
warning, and I believe 666 in Revelation (the Beast)
is Domitian.

We have also been studying Revelation in our monthly
preachers'/elders' meeting in which Ron Bartenan and I
both attend.  (By the way, Ron Bartenan is a great
man, my personal mentor, and a big reason I am where I
am today.)  As you can see, there seems to be some
differences regarding how to interpret Revelation, and
I am happy to say there has been no animosity at our
meetings, just as there has been no animosity on this
board regarding this topic.

I believe the book is highly appicable to us today by
teaching that ultimately Christ is triumphant,
regardless of what His enemies try and do.  I believe
it also shows how God will visit His judgment upon the
nations, and that He has always done that.

Did that answer you?

I appreciate everyone's comments.

In Christ,

David



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----- Original Message -----

From: davidferguson61

To: Focus_On_Truth@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:57 AM

Subject: [Focus_On_Truth] Satan loosed for a little time - Is this the spread of Islam?

David R. Ferguson to all:

I am not a premillenialist (Jeremiah 22:30 and Matthew 1:11 seem to
blow that theory out of the water), but what of the following passage
in Revelation?  Could it refer to the spread of Islam?  "And he laid
hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan,
and bound him for a thousand years, and cast him into the abyss, and
shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations
no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he
must be loosed for a little time."  (Revelation 20:2-3)

In Christ,

David





Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2Tim. 2:15).

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good (1Thes. 5:21).

Jason Henderson to Ron Bartanen and others:

Very good points Ron.

To clarify:
The point I was trying to make was not that we shouldn't look for
signs, but that we shouldn't be fixated with looking for signs.
Christian's have been falsely predicting the 2nd coming for centuries
now, and I think it serves our cause better to show people the grace
of Christ, instead of his wrath.

The coming wrath, as you said, should be our quickening, our revival.
  We should be able to see it coming soon (but not knowing when) and
strengthen our resolve in His cause.

Regards,
Jason

--- In Focus_On_Truth@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Bartanen <ron33dor@y...>
wrote:
> Ron Bartanen to David Ferguson and others:
>
> David, One suggested that one shouldn't look for any signs of the
end, but should just be ready, not knowing when Jesus will come.
Sounds good in a way, but I don't believe it's a scriptural approach.
  I believe the signs of Matt. 24, for instance, have significance for
us as well as those of Jesus' day and in the early church.  Jesus
teaching that we "WATCH and pray: for ye know not when the time is"
(Mk. 13:33) would indicate we should be looking for him, perhaps
watching world events.  Peter reminds us that we have "a more sure
word of prophecy" for us to "heed", which is shining in the darkness
of this world (2 Peter. 1:19).  It gives us light.  Jesus admonished
us that when we see certain events occurring we should "look up...for
your redemption draweth nigh."  In fact, if we feel the coming of the
Lord is hear, would we not hasten to bring more souls to the Savior?
Certainly far more than those who would be at the extreme of thinking
that nothing changes, and there is no
>  indication of Christ's soon-appearing (Matt. 24:48; 2 Peter 3:4).
Whether one is Pre or A-millennial, there is every reason to be awake
to what is happening around us, and look to the Scriptures for comfort
and hope.  Certainly the evil we see multiplying in our nation, and
the world generally, would indicate to me that we are fast ripening
for judgment.  The Islamic terrorism is certainly indicating that
Satan is "looser" than he has ever been in my lifetime.  Add to that
the move for globalism, and the problem is compounded.
>
> In Christ,
> Ron
>
> David Ferguson <davidferguson61@y...> wrote:
> David Ferguson to Jason Henderson and others:
>
> Jason, I don't believe the Scriptures teach the 1,000
> years are literal, although some have speculated they
> began in 344 through 1344.
>
> Jason said: "We need to stay grounded in the present
> so we can fulfill Christ's mandate."
>
> I like this.  This is a good summation of how I view
> those who believe in the premillenialism doctrine.  I
> believe it is an erroneous teaching, but I do not
> believe it is a matter of one's salvation.  I care not
> whether someone believes Christ will literally reign
> over a kingdom on earth for 1,000 years...I care
> whether or not one is ready to spend eternity in
> heaven with the Savior.  Therefore, I refuse to divide
> Christ's body over this doctrine.
>
> Does that make sense?
>
> By the way, I saw this question originally on another
> forum, and thought it was interesting.  I wanted to
> see what our folks had to say.
>
> In Christ,
>
> David
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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>
> Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not
to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2Tim. 2:15).
>
> Prove all things; hold fast that which is good (1Thes. 5:21).
>
>
>
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I'll introduce myself as well.

My name is Jason Henderson, I live in central Illinois and attend the
same church as David Ferguson.  I'm 31 years old, married, and the
father of two sons.

I've been a member of Christ's body since I was buried with him in
baptism in 1999.  I'm a young Christian, but I have attended church
all my life so I'm pretty good at Bible Trivia ;-).

I'm a political junkie, I have my own blog at
http://slipofthepen.blogspot.com.  I'm also a computer geek.  I'm
currently working as a computer programmer, specializing in Microsoft
Windows application development, but I've made a lot of web pages too.

I'm kind of new to religious forums, but have seen many internet flame
wars and their results.  It will be nice to sit above the fray for a
change.  I look forward to many good and interesting discussions.

Regards,
Jason

David Ferguson to Jason Henderson and others:

Jason, I don't believe the Scriptures teach the 1,000
years are literal, although some have speculated they
began in 344 through 1344.

Jason said: "We need to stay grounded in the present
so we can fulfill Christ's mandate."

I like this.  This is a good summation of how I view
those who believe in the premillenialism doctrine.  I
believe it is an erroneous teaching, but I do not
believe it is a matter of one's salvation.  I care not
whether someone believes Christ will literally reign
over a kingdom on earth for 1,000 years...I care
whether or not one is ready to spend eternity in
heaven with the Savior.  Therefore, I refuse to divide
Christ's body over this doctrine.

Does that make sense?

By the way, I saw this question originally on another
forum, and thought it was interesting.  I wanted to
see what our folks had to say.

In Christ,

David


           
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Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2Tim. 2:15).

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good (1Thes. 5:21).

Jason Henderson to David Ferguson, all:

That makes perfect sense, but like anything else it can be taken too
far.  A good example of premillenialism gone bad:
<a href="http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/484861.html">Pat
Robertson in Israel recently</a>

The belief that Jews still have a special place with God (by
birthright) has no basis in truth.  If I'm wrong, please point me to
some scriptures, but when we say that the temple must be rebuilt
before Jesus returns is taking power away from God.  He does not need
a temple built with human hands.  Pat's group was even celebrating the
Feast of Tabernacles.  Are they still under the Law or under Christ?
You can't call yourself a Christian if you place the Law above Christ.

Another thing I see that kind of disturbs me is the fixation some
Christians have with the 10 commandments.  This can be taken too far
as well.  Care to comment on that?

Regards,
Jason Henderson

--- In Focus_On_Truth@yahoogroups.com, David Ferguson
<davidferguson61@y...> wrote:
> David Ferguson to Jason Henderson and others:
>
> Jason, I don't believe the Scriptures teach the 1,000
> years are literal, although some have speculated they
> began in 344 through 1344.
>
> Jason said: "We need to stay grounded in the present
> so we can fulfill Christ's mandate."
>
> I like this.  This is a good summation of how I view
> those who believe in the premillenialism doctrine.  I
> believe it is an erroneous teaching, but I do not
> believe it is a matter of one's salvation.  I care not
> whether someone believes Christ will literally reign
> over a kingdom on earth for 1,000 years...I care
> whether or not one is ready to spend eternity in
> heaven with the Savior.  Therefore, I refuse to divide
> Christ's body over this doctrine.
>
> Does that make sense?
>
> By the way, I saw this question originally on another
> forum, and thought it was interesting.  I wanted to
> see what our folks had to say.
>
> In Christ,
>
> David
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
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David Ferguson to Joe Hanley:

Welcome aboard!  I have read your posts before, and I
have always found them enjoyable.

Regards,

David



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Joe Hanley To all listers,

Thank you for the invitation to join and the subsequent approval.  It will be my pleasure to enter into good discussions even with disagreement in the civil manner God intended for His people.

I have read and re-read the conditions of membership and the needed decorum attitudes and I agree with them and hope to abide by them all the time.

Prov:25:11: "A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver."

David Ferguson to Jason Henderson and others:

Jason, I don't believe the Scriptures teach the 1,000
years are literal, although some have speculated they
began in 344 through 1344.

Jason said: "We need to stay grounded in the present
so we can fulfill Christ's mandate."

I like this.  This is a good summation of how I view
those who believe in the premillenialism doctrine.  I
believe it is an erroneous teaching, but I do not
believe it is a matter of one's salvation.  I care not
whether someone believes Christ will literally reign
over a kingdom on earth for 1,000 years...I care
whether or not one is ready to spend eternity in
heaven with the Savior.  Therefore, I refuse to divide
Christ's body over this doctrine.

Does that make sense?

By the way, I saw this question originally on another
forum, and thought it was interesting.  I wanted to
see what our folks had to say.

In Christ,

David



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Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
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Jason Henderson to David Ferguson, all:

Interesting question, but when would the one thousand years have
started?  If it started at the time of Daniel's prophecy, then
Mohammed's "revelation" (for lack of a better word) would fall
pretty close to 1000 yrs later and also the dark ages, the Krakatoa
eruption, papal usurpation, etc.

I think speculation such as this can be a good Bible study
excersize, but can be taken too far, like in the case of pre-
millinialism, in my opinion.  We need to stay grounded in the
present so we can fulfill Christ's mandate.  What I use to stay
grounded is Acts 1:9-11.

After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a
cloud hid him from their sight.  They were looking intently up into
the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white
stood beside them.  "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand
here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from
you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go
into heaven."

If we stand around waiting, trying to figure out when Christ will
return, we can't spread the Gospel to all nations.

Regards,
Jason

--- In Focus_On_Truth@yahoogroups.com, "davidferguson61"
<davidferguson61@y...> wrote:
>
> David R. Ferguson to all:
>
> I am not a premillenialist (Jeremiah 22:30 and Matthew 1:11 seem
to
> blow that theory out of the water), but what of the following
passage
> in Revelation?  Could it refer to the spread of Islam?  "And he
laid
> hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan,
> and bound him for a thousand years, and cast him into the abyss,
and
> shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the
nations
> no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this
he
> must be loosed for a little time."  (Revelation 20:2-3)
>
> In Christ,
>
> David

David,
As you know, I am PreMil in my beliefs concerning end times.
Revelation is full of prophecy that is yet to be fulfilled. You may
be on to something with the Islam thing. One thing I also
believe...Islam will play a role in end times and the new world
order. My personal theory (not saying fact) is that the beheadings
that are becoming so common now are preparing the way (getting
people accustomed to the idea) for the multitude of such deaths that
will occur during the Tribulation when people refuse to take the
mark of the beast. I don't really want to start a discussion on the
PreMil thing but it is good food for thought.
Kalena

--- In Focus_On_Truth@yahoogroups.com, "davidferguson61"
<davidferguson61@y...> wrote:
>
> David R. Ferguson to all:
>
> I am not a premillenialist (Jeremiah 22:30 and Matthew 1:11 seem
to
> blow that theory out of the water), but what of the following
passage
> in Revelation?  Could it refer to the spread of Islam?  "And he
laid
> hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan,
> and bound him for a thousand years, and cast him into the abyss,
and
> shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the
nations
> no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this
he
> must be loosed for a little time."  (Revelation 20:2-3)
>
> In Christ,
>
> David

Ken Mathews to David Ferguson,

I think this could be a probably theory.  For sake of argument lets
say this is true based on (Revelation 20:2-3) that could mean
judgement day is soon approching.

or some time I have been thinking about Islam and a satan connection.

In His Love

Ken Mathews


--- In Focus_On_Truth@yahoogroups.com, "davidferguson61"
<davidferguson61@y...> wrote:
>
> David R. Ferguson to all:
>
> I am not a premillenialist (Jeremiah 22:30 and Matthew 1:11 seem
to
> blow that theory out of the water), but what of the following
passage
> in Revelation?  Could it refer to the spread of Islam?  "And he
laid
> hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan,
> and bound him for a thousand years, and cast him into the abyss,
and
> shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the
nations
> no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this
he
> must be loosed for a little time."  (Revelation 20:2-3)
>
> In Christ,
>
> David

David R. Ferguson to all:

I am not a premillenialist (Jeremiah 22:30 and Matthew 1:11 seem to
blow that theory out of the water), but what of the following passage
in Revelation?  Could it refer to the spread of Islam?  "And he laid
hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan,
and bound him for a thousand years, and cast him into the abyss, and
shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations
no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he
must be loosed for a little time."  (Revelation 20:2-3)

In Christ,

David

David,

You make a very good point here, I loved it.

In His Love

Ken Mathews


--- In Focus_On_Truth@yahoogroups.com, David Ferguson
<davidferguson61@y...> wrote:
> David Ferguson to Jason Henderson and others:
>
> Jason Henderson wrote: "Yes, there are certain things
> that we should not do because we are commanded not to
> do them.  But there are also borderline things (like
> H'ween and Xmas) that we can use to teach our children
> and minister to others.
>
> Am I way off base?"
>
> I think you are right on base here, Jason.  I believe
> not teaching and/or not understanding the concepts
> brought forth by Paul in Romans 14 and other places
> has hurt the church the last half of the last century.
>  Too many people denying others the liberty to make
> their own choices regarding holidays, such as
> Christmas and Halloween, are perfect examples.
>
> For example, it was wrong for the Judaizers to teach
> that in order to be saved in Christ one must also
> become circumcised and keep the Law, but it was just
> as wrong for people to teach that the the first
> Christians coming out of Judaism had to give up being
> a Jew.  They were not told to do that!  And I believe
> this is where we have fallen short and lost many when
> trying to get them to come out of denominatationalism
> when insisting they MUST not wear crosses, observe
> Halloween or Christmas, etc.  We then lose them by not
> allowing them their liberty.
>
> Regards,
>
> David R. Ferguson
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
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Hello Group,

Since the title of the group is focus on truth I thought I would
offer my thoughts on truth.  Jesus was asked by Pilot, what is
truth?  I have heard it said that there is no absolute truth. I have
spent many years studying truth as it relates to God and how He
created man.

I like to think of truth as the reality or what is real.  My
thoughts will apply to spiritual truth.  One of the most powerful
verses on truth, and one I am always studying is John 8:32 Ye shall
know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

My first illustration of this verse, one I learned many years ago is
related to flying.  Once people learned that air flowing under
something gave it lift they were free to fly. Or once they learned
the reality of lift caused by air flow they were set free to fly.
And so it is with God's truth, once we learn the reality of it we
are free to live as God intended us to live.

Sin is in direct conflict with  truth, therefore man cannot live
free.  In this verse truth relates to setting us free from the error
of our sin.

I see truth as having two layers. The first surface layer is the
reality of the truth the second layer relates to the deeper reality
of it's application.  Take a simple seed.  The first layer of truth
is that if you bury it in soil it will grow. The second layer of
truth is that you can feed your family with what it grows.

Take a simple candle.  I can tell you the type of wax that is used,
how long the wick is, how long it will burn, the diameter of the
candle. This would be the first layer of  it's truth.  Now the
second deeper layer would be, showing you how the candle can light
up a room so you can read and study a subject. There are several
practical applications you can connect to the candle.

Truth relates to physical and spiritual things. And in both ways
truth is fact or reality. Physical truth is seen, spiritual truth is
unseen.  That is why Paul says in 2Cor 4:18 that he fixes his eyes
on the unseen not the seen.

Our focus in this group is the truth of God's word.  I believe this
group will serve that purpose for the members edification.  For
future reference I tend to go very deep, so please feel free to pull
on my reigns at any time.

I have gone on and on, I am sorry for being so wordy.  Have a great
day.  And please feel free to challenge any thing I may write.  You
may interpret that last statement as a means of debate, quit the
contrary. The best way to challenge what anyone says is to first
understand exactly what they mean, and the only way a person can do
that is by asking good questions.

The average man when he hears or reads something they don't agree
with, will argue the point.  Try asking questions about what you
don't agree with first and I guarantee you the other person will
clarify what they are saying.

As human beings we are so bent on getting our point across we fail
to understand the other persons thinking.   I am doing it again,
going on and on.

For His Love

Ken Mathews

Hello group,

I am Ken Mathews, I preach for the church of Christ in Indiana.  I am
honored that David invited me to this group.  I know he will do a
great job with it.

I have been preaching full-time since 1984.  I now preach and have to
work full time. I also do a lot of counseling I call it life coaching.

  I  have been married for 24 years and have two great daughters 15 and 17.

I am an avid student of life, always looking to learn new things.  I
just wanted to drop the group a line about who I am  so you will have
an idea about me when I post.

God Bless

Ken Mathews

David Ferguson to Jason Henderson and others:

Jason Henderson wrote: "Yes, there are certain things
that we should not do because we are commanded not to
do them.  But there are also borderline things (like
H'ween and Xmas) that we can use to teach our children
and minister to others.

Am I way off base?"

I think you are right on base here, Jason.  I believe
not teaching and/or not understanding the concepts
brought forth by Paul in Romans 14 and other places
has hurt the church the last half of the last century.
  Too many people denying others the liberty to make
their own choices regarding holidays, such as
Christmas and Halloween, are perfect examples.

For example, it was wrong for the Judaizers to teach
that in order to be saved in Christ one must also
become circumcised and keep the Law, but it was just
as wrong for people to teach that the the first
Christians coming out of Judaism had to give up being
a Jew.  They were not told to do that!  And I believe
this is where we have fallen short and lost many when
trying to get them to come out of denominatationalism
when insisting they MUST not wear crosses, observe
Halloween or Christmas, etc.  We then lose them by not
allowing them their liberty.

Regards,

David R. Ferguson



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Jason Henderson to David Ferguson and all:

First, I'm new and thanks for inviting me David.

I think in order to adequately answer this question, a definition
must be given for sin.  I'll throw my hat (or towel) into the ring
first...

In one word sin is pride, in a more detailed definition, sin is
saying "I know better than God does."  My wants and needs come
before the wants and needs of others and before the commands of God.

We need to ask ourselves, "Is what I want to do going to glorify God
or myself?"

Yes, there are certain things that we should not do because we are
commanded not to do them.  But there are also borderline things
(like H'ween and Xmas) that we can use to teach our children and
minister to others.

Am I way off base?

Jason

--- In Focus_On_Truth@yahoogroups.com, David Ferguson
<davidferguson61@y...> wrote:
> David Ferguson to Robert Waters and all:
>
> I have heard many preach on this matter and mention
> the eating meat offered to idols, but that has seemed
> to be the extent of their discourse.  It has always
> seemed that virtually every preacher I have known has
> seen EVERYTHING in strictly black and white terms.  I
> believe most everything is black and white, but I
> would like to see what others may believe is something
> left up to the individual, for example, "celebrating"
> Halloween and Christmas.
>
> Regards,
>
> David
> --- Robert Waters <robertwaters@y...> wrote:
>
> > Robert Waters to David Ferguson and the list,
> >
> > David,
> > I'm thinking that if something is sinful it is
> > sinful for anyone to do, regardless of his thinking
> > about it.  However, there are some things that are
> > not sinful but which would be sinful for one to do
> > merely because he THINKS it is wrong.  An example
> > that Paul gave was the eating of meants that had
> > been sacrificed to idols (Rom. 14:13-23).
> >
> > The conscience merely warns us, i.e., causes an
> > uneasy feeling, if we do what we think is wrong. We
> > must endeavor to educate ourselves as to what is
> > right and what is wrong.
> >
> > Don't know if I answered the question.  Maybe I at
> > least said something that will generate more
> > thoughts and discussion.
> >
> > Brotherly,
> > Robert Waters
> >
> >
> > davidferguson61 <davidferguson61@y...> wrote:
> >
> > David Ferguson to all:
> >
> > "One man esteemeth one day above another: another
> > esteemeth every day
> > alike.  Let each man be fully assured in his own
> > mind."  (Romans 14:5)
> >
> > Paul states in this passage, and in much of Romans
> > 14 and elsewhere,
> > that there are going to be some things that one
> > Christian can do and
> > not sin that if done by another Christian would be
> > sinning.  I am
> > interested in finding out what the group thinks of
> > this.  What about
> > eating in the building?  Drinking?  Gambling?
> > Smoking?  Or are all
> > of these simply sins in and of themselves foe
> > everybody, as many in
> > the brotherhood teach?  Where exactly does our
> > liberty lie in regards
> > to this question?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > David R. Ferguson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman
> > that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the
> > word of truth (2Tim. 2:15).
> >
> > Prove all things; hold fast that which is good
> > (1Thes. 5:21).
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Focus_On_Truth/
> >
> >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Focus_On_Truth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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David Ferguson to Robert Waters and all:

I have heard many preach on this matter and mention
the eating meat offered to idols, but that has seemed
to be the extent of their discourse.  It has always
seemed that virtually every preacher I have known has
seen EVERYTHING in strictly black and white terms.  I
believe most everything is black and white, but I
would like to see what others may believe is something
left up to the individual, for example, "celebrating"
Halloween and Christmas.

Regards,

David
--- Robert Waters <robertwaters@...> wrote:

> Robert Waters to David Ferguson and the list,
>
> David,
> I'm thinking that if something is sinful it is
> sinful for anyone to do, regardless of his thinking
> about it.  However, there are some things that are
> not sinful but which would be sinful for one to do
> merely because he THINKS it is wrong.  An example
> that Paul gave was the eating of meants that had
> been sacrificed to idols (Rom. 14:13-23).
>
> The conscience merely warns us, i.e., causes an
> uneasy feeling, if we do what we think is wrong. We
> must endeavor to educate ourselves as to what is
> right and what is wrong.
>
> Don't know if I answered the question.  Maybe I at
> least said something that will generate more
> thoughts and discussion.
>
> Brotherly,
> Robert Waters
>
>
> davidferguson61 <davidferguson61@...> wrote:
>
> David Ferguson to all:
>
> "One man esteemeth one day above another: another
> esteemeth every day
> alike.  Let each man be fully assured in his own
> mind."  (Romans 14:5)
>
> Paul states in this passage, and in much of Romans
> 14 and elsewhere,
> that there are going to be some things that one
> Christian can do and
> not sin that if done by another Christian would be
> sinning.  I am
> interested in finding out what the group thinks of
> this.  What about
> eating in the building?  Drinking?  Gambling?
> Smoking?  Or are all
> of these simply sins in and of themselves foe
> everybody, as many in
> the brotherhood teach?  Where exactly does our
> liberty lie in regards
> to this question?
>
> Regards,
>
> David R. Ferguson
>
>
>
>
>
> Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman
> that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the
> word of truth (2Tim. 2:15).
>
> Prove all things; hold fast that which is good
> (1Thes. 5:21).
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
>    To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Focus_On_Truth/
>
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> Focus_On_Truth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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>


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David Ferguson to all:

"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day
alike.  Let each man be fully assured in his own mind."  (Romans 14:5)

Paul states in this passage, and in much of Romans 14 and elsewhere,
that there are going to be some things that one Christian can do and
not sin that if done by another Christian would be sinning.  I am
interested in finding out what the group thinks of this.  What about
eating in the building?  Drinking?  Gambling?  Smoking?  Or are all
of these simply sins in and of themselves foe everybody, as many in
the brotherhood teach?  Where exactly does our liberty lie in regards
to this question?

Regards,

David R. Ferguson





Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2Tim. 2:15).

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good (1Thes. 5:21).

David Ferguson to all:

"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day
alike.  Let each man be fully assured in his own mind."  (Romans 14:5)

Paul states in this passage, and in much of Romans 14 and elsewhere,
that there are going to be some things that one Christian can do and
not sin that if done by another Christian would be sinning.  I am
interested in finding out what the group thinks of this.  What about
eating in the building?  Drinking?  Gambling?  Smoking?  Or are all
of these simply sins in and of themselves foe everybody, as many in
the brotherhood teach?  Where exactly does our liberty lie in regards
to this question?

Regards,

David R. Ferguson