Steve,

I'm not sure if I already replied to you directly or not, so let me do so now.
On boats, I know Matt Layden's designs, but the birth of my third child cured me
of little bitty boats for even weekend cruising. I now have my sights set on
something bigger, like a George Buehler power boat, but realistically that is a
retirement project not something I can tackle right now.

As far as I know, Eric's original FRED is the only one flying in the USA, but
there have been others. I have a couple of poor photos of one on my site and
the FAA registry shows a couple of others, but only Eric's is still listed as
airworthy.

Bob mentioned visiting Eric this spring and I plan to do so this summer. I
specifically mentioned getting a clip of folding and unfolding the wings, and
Eric was all for it, though quick to admit that at his age he'll probably just
provide instructions and watch me do it!

Cheers,

Matthew

--- In FlyingRunaboutExperimentalDesign@yahoogroups.com, "stephendyahn"
<yahns@...> wrote:
>
> Matthew thanks for this great reply. The Gott'n 535 airfoil is also on my two
favorite gliders, Grunau BeBe, Hutter 17. I like the design of the Brick. I have
a scale model of it on my desk as I type. My most recent boat is a Matt Layden
design, PARADOX, a 14 foot sailboat.
>
> I don't think I would change anything about the design at all. I am curious
tho about how long does it take to assemble it from the towing mode to the
flying mode. And can I do that all by myself?
> I sent an e-mail to Mr Clutton and he says the price of postage has increased
and the plans and two booklets are now $82.00. Not bad at all.
> Does anyone near the western washington or northwest in general area have a
FRED for me to go look at? I love any excuse for a road trip!
> Cheers, Steve
>
> --- In FlyingRunaboutExperimentalDesign@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew L"
<owlnmole@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, guys! I am thrilled to see active discussion here on the FRED Yahoo!
Group by folks other than Matt N., Scott and me (the moderators). Steve, here's
my two cents worth on your questions:
> >
> > The FRED airfoil is the Goettingen (or Göttingen) 535 developed at the
German university of the same name in the years after WWI. Here's a link to a
plot of that airfoil
<http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/afplots/goe535.gif>. Eric chose it
because it's the same airfoil used on a number of British gliders including the
Slingsby training gliders used by the RAF and in civilian gliding in Britain, so
he knew it well. It's noted for gentle handling characteristics including at
the stall. As you might imagine from the profile, it's a high-lift and
high-drag airfoil, a bit like flying around with flaps down all the time, so
great for STOL operations but one of the major reasons that FRED is so slow.
But as long as you measure your flying fun by the hour and not by the mile then
the speed is not important.
> >
> > FYI, two fantastic sites for airfoil reference are the Incomplete Guide to
Airfoil Usage <http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/aircraft.html> and related
UIUC Airfoil Data Site
<http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html>. The first tells
you what airfoil a given plane uses, the second provides the airfoil coordinates
and an image.
> >
> > In terms of cockpit access, you can read about Eric's addition of what he
calls his "handicapped door" to the original FRED here:
<http://cluttonfred.info/post/13513085042/modifying-fred-for-easier-cockpit-acce\
ss> The short version is that Eric got by without the door for over 40 years,
and to my knowledge his is the only one with this modification, so it's not at
all necessary, but it is a help to anyone with limited mobility or, like Eric,
simply getting up there in years and not as flexible as in the past. Please do
explore the rest of my site, there is a lot of FRED info there, and you can join
us on Facebook as well if you use that service.
> >
> > Lastly, I, too, have built several small boats, partly to satisfy my desire
to build airplanes until such a time in my life when I am able to stay put and
have the space and time to tackle airplanes. All of my boats have been simple
Bolger/Payson plywood designs, in fact, my very first boat was featured in Phil
Bolger's NYT obituary, a Bolger Brick named "Tetard," French for "Tadpole." You
can see it here including my wife and me on the Hopkinton Reservoir in
Massachusetts many years ago:
<http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/us/01bolger.html>.
> >
> > Steve, as Bob said, as a toolmaker, wooden boatbuilder and aircraft modeler
you already have a huge head start on most aircraft homebuilders and FRED is a
simple, rugged design with a proven track record over almost 50 years. You'll
find that the carpentry involved in aircraft building is mostly very simple, no
complex joints, for example, just keeping everyone clean and simple and light.
> >
> > Please do keep us posted on your plans and progress and welcome to the
group!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Matthew L.
> > Co-Moderator
> >
> > --- In FlyingRunaboutExperimentalDesign@yahoogroups.com, "stephendyahn"
<yahns@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks. I'll be sending off for the plans and books too. As for getting in
and out,If I loose a little weight I'd bee better off. Now I have more
motivation (ha ha)
> > > Cheers, Steve
> > >
> > > --- In FlyingRunaboutExperimentalDesign@yahoogroups.com, Bob McBride
<r.mcbride@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello Steve,
> > > > Good questions all. I'll give it my best shot for what it's worth
(remember it's free). I do not know the name and nomaclature of the airfoil, but
yes it is pretty high lift. It has considerable under camber and is rather
thick, especially in center. Getting in and out. I've never done it or even seen
it done, if it's on youtube I've not found it yet. I do seem to remember seeing
a drawing depicting a drop down door on one side of the fuselage, think Tiger
Moth.
> > > > I will be ordering my set of plans from "Dr.Diesel" the designer in the
next week or so. He also has a book available that seems to be about
the history of how he came to design, build and name the FRED. I will be
including that on the order as well. I'm sure that between the drawings and the
book there has to some suggestion on how to get in and out of the thing.
> > > > That's the kind of stuff I hope to learn by visiting at some time in the
near future. I don't now how much that helped, but it's all I got.
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Bob McBride
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: stephendyahn <yahns@>
> > > > To: FlyingRunaboutExperimentalDesign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 4:49 PM
> > > > Subject: [FlyingRunaboutExperimentalDesign] Re: Introduction
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > > Thanks Bob!
> > > > I have some questions, if I may. What is the airfoil? it looks so high
lift. How does one get in and out. Is there a youtube for that?
> > > > Thanks Steve
> > > >
> > > > --- In FlyingRunaboutExperimentalDesign@yahoogroups.com, Bob McBride
<r.mcbride@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Greetings Steve,
> > > > > Welcome aboard!
> > > > > Boy, you pretty much have the bases covered, a toolmaker and wooden
boat building skills. You shouldn't have too many hurdles that you can't pretty
much work out yourself. I've never built a boat but I have often thought
about it.I learned about FRED because of building model airplanes. I consider
myself lucky in that original FRED and the designer are relatively close to
me. I thinking that come springtime I may make a pilgrimage . . .
> > > > > Again, Welcome Aboard,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob McBride, Butlerville, AR
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: stephendyahn <yahns@>
> > > > > To: FlyingRunaboutExperimentalDesign@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:29 PM
> > > > > Subject: [FlyingRunaboutExperimentalDesign] Introduction
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >  
> > > > > Hello everyone. I'm a retired toolmaker (62 yrs old) living in western
Washington State. I have built 7 wooden boats but never an airplane. Well, OK,
model airplans. I like this airplane FRED. I know I can build it. I have had
some freinds in the past who built homebuilts. The fact that the whole idea is
affordable is the only thing that will let me make it work/fly. I took flying
lessons long ago but ran out of money at the time. I raised a famly too. This
looks like fun. A long time ago I sort of fell in love with the Pietenpol. But
it is bigger and not as "tow-it-home-able".
> > > > >
> > > > > Looking UP
> > > > > Steve Yahn
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>