Kushiel's Dart is a good series. If you're not opposed to sci-fi,
the Otherland books by Tad Williams are pretty good as well. Melanie
Rawn's Dragon Prince and Dragon Star are my other recommendations,
and they might be better because they're purely fantasy with no
elves, but they do have dragons in them. Another series is Robert
Jordan's Wheel of Time (first book is The Eye of the World), but it
has a lot of action in it and it's really long--none of the books is
under 700 pages.
Just my thoughts, take or leave 'em.
--- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "volkerthemadfiddler"
<garkutch@z...> wrote:
>
> --- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "Michael"
<mashepardson@m...> wrote:
> >
> > I have been away from Fantasy for a long time, measured in
decades
> > not years, and I'm interested in getting back into it.  I
enjoyed the
> > Lord of the Rings but I would like to avoid 'copycat' books with
> > elves, dwarves, etc.  I'm currently reading George R R Martin's
> > series and LOVE IT!  Unfortunately, I'll soon be through it :-(
> >
> > I prefer good writing, character development and plotting to
sword &
> > sorcery action.  Actually, the action tends to turn me off but I
love
> > suspense.
> >
> > I've been lurking for a while and I'm tempted by Kushiel's Dart
but I
> > decided I'd take suggestions before I embark on another mammoth
> > series.
> >
> You could try Tad William's "Memory, Sorrow and Thorne"- the first
> book is called "The Dragonbone Chair" IIRC.
>
> Volker the Mad Fiddler [aka Garett Kutcher]

I quit this series half way through the third book because nothing had
happened for over 300 pages.  Absolutely nothing moved the story
forward.
FrankT
--- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "Shiloh" <dragon_queen1818@y...>
wrote:
  Another series is Robert
> Jordan's Wheel of Time (first book is The Eye of the World), but it
> has a lot of action in it and it's really long--none of the books is
under 700 pages.
> Just my thoughts, take or leave 'em.

I read the first six in as many months, as was enjoying them. But had to
wait for book seven to be published. That was my downfall. I was just unable
to pick up the multipe story threads. Jordan avoids the annoying habit of
continually recovering back story. Annoying that is when you are reading a
series all in one go, but rather useful when picking one up after a break.
How many books are there in the series now? And is it finished yet? Not sure
I can afford the time it would take to reread the first six and can on with
the series to the end.

But I did enjoy the first six that I did read.

Jane

-----Original Message-----
From: Frank T [mailto:XTONTOX@...]
Sent: 02 April 2005 12:12
To: Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Fantasy_Books] Re: What should I read?!?



I quit this series half way through the third book because nothing had
happened for over 300 pages.  Absolutely nothing moved the story forward.
FrankT
--- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "Shiloh" <dragon_queen1818@y...>
wrote:
  Another series is Robert
> Jordan's Wheel of Time (first book is The Eye of the World), but it
> has a lot of action in it and it's really long--none of the books is
under 700 pages.
> Just my thoughts, take or leave 'em.






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Pick up The Bone Doll's Twin by Lynn Flewelling.  One of the best I
have ever read. It is a very original story with great indepth
characters. You won't be able to put it down.   I my self am about half
through Clash of Kings by Martin and I'm loving the series.  He is a
fantastic writer.

--- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mashepardson@m...>
wrote:
>
> I have been away from Fantasy for a long time, measured in decades
> not years, and I'm interested in getting back into it.  I enjoyed the
> Lord of the Rings but I would like to avoid 'copycat' books with
> elves, dwarves, etc.  I'm currently reading George R R Martin's
> series and LOVE IT!  Unfortunately, I'll soon be through it :-(
>
> I prefer good writing, character development and plotting to sword &
> sorcery action.  Actually, the action tends to turn me off but I love
> suspense.
>
> I've been lurking for a while and I'm tempted by Kushiel's Dart but I
> decided I'd take suggestions before I embark on another mammoth
> series.
>
> Thanks to all!

On 2 Apr 2005 at 19:53, Jane Gray wrote:

>
> I read the first six in as many months, as was enjoying them. But had to
> wait for book seven to be published. That was my downfall. I was just unable
> to pick up the multipe story threads. Jordan avoids the annoying habit of
> continually recovering back story. Annoying that is when you are reading a
> series all in one go, but rather useful when picking one up after a break.
> How many books are there in the series now?

There are currently 10 books in the series, with the 11th allegedly being
published later
this year.

> And is it finished yet?

There's a line in Robert Jordan's biography in the back of some of the books
that says
he "intends to keep writing until they nail shut his coffin." I have a horrible
suspicion that
when that happens he'll still desperately be trying to finish the Wheel of Time.

"no" is the shorter answer to your question.

> Not sure
> I can afford the time it would take to reread the first six and can on with
> the series to the end.

I'd probably advise waiting until the series is finished (if ever) since the
recent books
have rarely advanced the plot much.

> But I did enjoy the first six that I did read.

I have to admit I do still enjoy the Wheel Of Time books, but I've got a bit
exasparated at
the glacial rate of progress in the story.

> Jane

--
William Marnoch
william@...
http://www.voidhawk.com/ - Film and Book Reviews

--- Jane Gray <hippygoth@...> wrote:
> I read the first six in as many months, as was
> enjoying them. But had to
> wait for book seven to be published. That was my
> downfall. I was just unable
> to pick up the multipe story threads.

Same here. I started reading this series when the
Great Hunt was published originally. By the time book
7 came out I had forgotten quite a few plot lines. I
did reread the first 7 books and timed it with the
arrival of book 8. It made all the difference.
Unfortunalty that was 5 years ago. I am sticking with
the series but when I am guaranteeed that the last
book is soon to be published I will go back to reread
them once again.

If I knew then what I know now I would have just
bought them and waited till they were all published
and read them then.



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--- william@... wrote:
>
> > And is it finished yet?
>
> There's a line in Robert Jordan's biography in the
> back of some of the books that says
> he "intends to keep writing until they nail shut his
> coffin." I have a horrible suspicion that
> when that happens he'll still desperately be trying
> to finish the Wheel of Time.
>
I have heard from wotmainia.com that Jordan that book
12 will end the series. I am crossing my fingers



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On 2 Apr 2005 at 14:57, Ken Ogilvy wrote:

>
>
> --- william@... wrote:
> >
> > > And is it finished yet?
> >
> > There's a line in Robert Jordan's biography in the
> > back of some of the books that says
> > he "intends to keep writing until they nail shut his
> > coffin." I have a horrible suspicion that
> > when that happens he'll still desperately be trying
> > to finish the Wheel of Time.
> >
> I have heard from wotmainia.com that Jordan that book
> 12 will end the series. I am crossing my fingers

Only one more book (after the one later this year)? I find that slightly hard to
believe.

I suppose it might depend on how long the book is - maybe it'll be like Tad
Williams's
fantasy trilogy "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn", which only gets to be a trilogy
because
"Book 3" is over 1500 pages (and 2 volumes) long.

Still, it would be nice if it was true. Although, after all this time he'd
better write a good
ending, otherwise some of his 'fans' might be tempted to put him in the "writing
while
they nail shut his coffin" state prematurely.



--
William Marnoch
william@...
http://www.voidhawk.com/ - Film and Book Reviews

I gave up at about the same place but mostly because of the
characters. Everyone [save Lan, who disappeared for books at a time]
was a whiner, constantly bemoaning their fate[s] rather than trying to
do something about it. I prefer heroic heroes [like Theoden from the
LoTR movies 'If this is to be our end, I would have them make such an
end as to be worthy of remembrance' sort of thing].

Volker the Mad Fiddler

--- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "Frank T" <XTONTOX@a...> wrote:
>
> I quit this series half way through the third book because nothing had
> happened for over 300 pages.  Absolutely nothing moved the story
> forward.
> FrankT
> --- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "Shiloh" <dragon_queen1818@y...>
> wrote:
>  Another series is Robert
> > Jordan's Wheel of Time (first book is The Eye of the World), but it
> > has a lot of action in it and it's really long--none of the books is
> under 700 pages.
> > Just my thoughts, take or leave 'em.

--- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, william@w... wrote:
SNIP
> Still, it would be nice if it was true. Although, after all this
time he'd better write a good
> ending, otherwise some of his 'fans' might be tempted to put him in
the "writing while
> they nail shut his coffin" state prematurely.
>
What I have found funny is the number of people who have laughed at me
re-reading REH's Conan books every couple of years while pointing to
their reading of Jordan as a sign of more advanced/mature tastes, when
Jordan early in his career wrote a Conan novel [which wasn't
especially good].

Volker the Mad Fiddler [still a REH fan at age 30 (almost)].

The big difference is REH can tell a story, and Jordan can only babble
on aboutnecklines.
FrankT
--- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "volkerthemadfiddler"
<garkutch@z...> wrote:
.
> >
> What I have found funny is the number of people who have laughed at me
> re-reading REH's Conan books every couple of years while pointing to
> their reading of Jordan as a sign of more advanced/mature tastes, when
> Jordan early in his career wrote a Conan novel [which wasn't
> especially good].
>
> Volker the Mad Fiddler [still a REH fan at age 30 (almost)].

Yeah, I agree about Jordan. His books are so long and drawn out that it feels
like nothing is happening. I started this series only after he had written the
first ten, and I thought that if a series is that long, it must have something
everyone loves or else it wouldn't still be going. After reading the first two,
I find myself not excited or even caring about the third. On to something else.
Right now, I'm between fantasy books and reading Night in the Lonesome October
by Richard Laymon and Last Things by David Searcy. After I finish those, I'll
finally finish The Serpentwar Saga by Feist.

For Horror/SciFi/Fantasy movie, book, and music news and reviews click here
http://davesnewsandreviews.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Amy, the setting for Darkwalker is in the Forgotten Realms world, I
don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's a D&D offshoot. R.A.
Salvatore uses the world for alot of his novels as well as alot of
other authors, the world is huge. Anyway, the story revolves around a
prince (Tristan), a druidess (Robyn), a mysterious stranger (Daryth),
a halfling (Pawldo), and the forces of the goddess' power (Kamerynn
the unicorn, the Pack, and the leviathan) as they struggle for peace
as their land is overrun by invading northmen, who are being led by
the goddess' rival Kosgoroth. Without giving anything else away,
that's about it. Lots of action in this one. Part of a trilogy, and I
haven't read the other two yet, but I am eager to. Hope that helps.--Dave

--- william@... wrote:
>
> Only one more book (after the one later this year)?
> I find that slightly hard to believe.
>
Agreed, when I read that i was thinking, Yah, sure.

>
> Still, it would be nice if it was true. Although,
> after all this time he'd better write a good
> ending, otherwise some of his 'fans' might be
> tempted to put him in the "writing while
> they nail shut his coffin" state prematurely.
>
I kinda think after "New Spring" was released there
was some outcry cause he said he wasn't going to
finish that Trilogy till he finishes the Wheel of
Time.
I also think that maybe Tor is pushing him to finish
it by Book 12 cause a 12 book series sounds more
palatable that a 13 or 14 books series.

Personally I think he can finish it in 2 books.



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--- volkerthemadfiddler <garkutch@...> wrote:
>
> What I have found funny is the number of people who
> have laughed at me
> re-reading REH's Conan books every couple of years
> while pointing to
> their reading of Jordan as a sign of more
> advanced/mature tastes, when
> Jordan early in his career wrote a Conan novel
> [which wasn't
> especially good].
>
> Volker the Mad Fiddler [still a REH fan at age 30
> (almost)].
>
I think Jordan wrote 3 Conan books.

Ken, still a REH fan at 37(or so)
I just picked up a couple of REH Conan books recently



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--- Dave Donovan <dave_donovan@...> wrote:
>I started this series only after he had
> written the first ten, and I thought that if a
> series is that long, it must have something everyone
> loves or else it wouldn't still be going. After
> reading the first two, I find myself not excited or
> even caring about the third.

When I reread them 5 ot 6 years ago I realised that if
I started the series now I probably would have never
gotten through book one.
The series does get better, then it gets bad, then
better then bad.

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Thanks to everyone for their advice on what to read.  Since I am
blessed with more money than time, I bought a number of the books and I
will read the one that seems to be the most rewarding.  My purchase:

The Bone Doll's Twin by Lynn Flewelling
Dragonbone Chair by Tad Williams
Assassins Apprentice by Robin Hobb
Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey
The Lions of Al-Rassan by Guy Kay
The Eye of the World by Robert Jordan

I'll let you know who the winner is and why...Thanks again to everyone
who responded!

--- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mashepardson@m...> wrote:
>
> Thanks to everyone for their advice on what to read.  Since I am
> blessed with more money than time, I bought a number of the books and I
> will read the one that seems to be the most rewarding.  My purchase:
>
> The Bone Doll's Twin by Lynn Flewelling
> Dragonbone Chair by Tad Williams
> Assassins Apprentice by Robin Hobb
> Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey
> The Lions of Al-Rassan by Guy Kay
> The Eye of the World by Robert Jordan
>
> I'll let you know who the winner is and why...Thanks again to everyone
> who responded!

Reading this list, I'll change my answer to "The Lions of Al-Rassan".

Volker the Mad Fiddler

--- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, Ken Ogilvy <kogilvy1@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Personally I think he can finish it in 2 books.
>
I think he could have finished it in two books total
FrankT

I was just wonder if there was anyone here who has read Martin's work.
I just finished A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings last week and I
must say they are two of the best books I have ever read.  Also two of
the longest books that I have read.  I just think Martin writes with an
excellence that is seldom seen and has created a world so realistic
that it is unlike anything that I have read before.  I have never seen
an author treat his characters with such realistic cruelty before.  I
just think it is incredible.  He throws so many characters at you so
fast, but handles them so well, that not once did I find myself
confused about who was who.  The story has never hit a slow spot for me
and I found it interesting and attention grabbing from page one.  This
is by far one of the best series that I have read and highly recommend
it to anyone who has not read it yet.  I am glad that I discovered the
series late though, so I have 3 books to read.  I think I would have
had a terrible time waiting years for each installment if I had started
it at it's release.  Great stuff.

I read Game of Thrones and really liked it. It was a very complex and detailed
story. I haven't set aside time to take on the second book because like you
said, they are big. I do look forward to return to it, I hope he tells more
about the creatures in the forest in the next one.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have read all the Books released in this series, And Am anxiously awaiting the
4th book, I loved these books.......They are very long, and the first book is
alot of character development, and there are alot of characters to remember, I
do know a couple people who did not like the long list of characters to remember
and the long development and thought it took a while to get into......but I also
know people that loved it, Like me. I cant wait until July 26th when "A Feast
For Crows" is released, although I might have to re-read the last book to
remember where I am.

eelloxx <grawgos@...> wrote:
I was just wonder if there was anyone here who has read Martin's work.
I just finished A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings last week and I
must say they are two of the best books I have ever read.  Also two of
the longest books that I have read.  I just think Martin writes with an
excellence that is seldom seen and has created a world so realistic
that it is unlike anything that I have read before.  I have never seen
an author treat his characters with such realistic cruelty before.  I
just think it is incredible.  He throws so many characters at you so
fast, but handles them so well, that not once did I find myself
confused about who was who.  The story has never hit a slow spot for me
and I found it interesting and attention grabbing from page one.  This
is by far one of the best series that I have read and highly recommend
it to anyone who has not read it yet.  I am glad that I discovered the
series late though, so I have 3 books to read.  I think I would have
had a terrible time waiting years for each installment if I had started
it at it's release.  Great stuff.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Fantasy_Books@yahoogroups.com, "eelloxx" <grawgos@m...> wrote:
>
> I was just wonder if there was anyone here who has read Martin's
work.
> I just finished A Game of Thrones
SNIP

I too really enjoyed A Game of Thrones, but I read it when it first
came out and before A Clash of Kings was out, I had forgotten who
everyone was [read a number of other books in the meantime], so, now I
am buying the books as they come out, but am putting off reading them
until I have the entire series and can read it more or less at one
time.

Volker the Mad Fiddler

I loved this series. Unfortunately for me, I came across it about two
years ago, so it has been a very, very impatient wait!  I wish the man
would hurry!  Lol.



I felt much like you regarding how he treated his characters- the books
were simply a pleasure to read, even when unfortunate things occurred.



Jennifer





"eelloxx" [grawgos@...] wrote:





I was just wonder if there was anyone here who has read Martin's work.

I just finished A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings last week and I

must say they are two of the best books I have ever read.  Also two of

the longest books that I have read.  I just think Martin writes with an

excellence that is seldom seen and has created a world so realistic

that it is unlike anything that I have read before.  I have never seen

an author treat his characters with such realistic cruelty before.  I

just think it is incredible.  He throws so many characters at you so

fast, but handles them so well, that not once did I find myself

confused about who was who.  The story has never hit a slow spot for me

and I found it interesting and attention grabbing from page one.  This

is by far one of the best series that I have read and highly recommend

it to anyone who has not read it yet.  I am glad that I discovered the

series late though, so I have 3 books to read.  I think I would have

had a terrible time waiting years for each installment if I had started

it at it's release.  Great stuff.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

aharlib@...
Thanks Dave!  Exactly the info I needed!
Cheers!
Amy

> Hi Amy, the setting for Darkwalker is in the Forgotten Realms world, I
> don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's a D&D offshoot. R.A.
> Salvatore uses the world for alot of his novels as well as alot of
> other authors, the world is huge. Anyway, the story revolves around a
> prince (Tristan), a druidess (Robyn), a mysterious stranger (Daryth),
> a halfling (Pawldo), and the forces of the goddess' power (Kamerynn
> the unicorn, the Pack, and the leviathan) as they struggle for peace
> as their land is overrun by invading northmen, who are being led by
> the goddess' rival Kosgoroth. Without giving anything else away,
> that's about it. Lots of action in this one. Part of a trilogy, and I
> haven't read the other two yet, but I am eager to. Hope that helps.--Dave
>

I've just started "A Game of Thrones"; about 150 pages in.
I thought the first 50 pages or so were difficult -- I don't think his writing
style in this book lead itself to being picked up quickly -- there are a lot of
characters, and his flitting back and forth among them without an overall
chapter tying the pieces together was initially a little disconcerning, but I
picked it up pretty quickly.
So far I like the book quite a bit -- looking forwards to the rest of the series
-- good characters, complex and interwoven storylines -- good stuff...
I deliberately waited this long to start the series -- hate years between books
in a series.  First one I remember that effect from was the original Thomas
Covenent works, where I kept re-reading the starting books every time a new one
came out.  Since then I've tried hard not to start a major series before the end
is in sight.  But what did I do a few months ago but immediately pick up the
latest long-awaited Donaldson book in the series, and I'm now looking at, what,
2 more years, before the next release.  Sigh...
Cary

eelloxx <grawgos@...> wrote:

I was just wonder if there was anyone here who has read Martin's work.
I just finished A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings last week and I must say
they are two of the best books I have ever read.  Also two of the longest books
that I have read.  I just think Martin writes with an excellence that is seldom
seen and has created a world so realistic that it is unlike anything that I have
read before.  I have never seen an author treat his characters with such
realistic cruelty before.  I just think it is incredible.  He throws so many
characters at you so fast, but handles them so well, that not once did I find
myself confused about who was who.  The story has never hit a slow spot for me
and I found it interesting and attention grabbing from page one.  This is by far
one of the best series that I have read and highly recommend it to anyone who
has not read it yet.  I am glad that I discovered the series late though, so I
have 3 books to read.  I think I would have had a terrible time waiting years
for each installment if I had started it at it's
  release.  Great stuff.




test'; ">
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm a real Martin fan. Don't wait too long before you read A Storm of
Swords - the story just gets better and better! If you go to Martin's
website you can also read exerpts for the upcoming A Feast for Crows.

Peta


>
>
> I was just wonder if there was anyone here who has read Martin's work.
> I just finished A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings last week and I
> must say they are two of the best books I have ever read.  Also two of
> the longest books that I have read.  I just think Martin writes with an
> excellence that is seldom seen and has created a world so realistic
> that it is unlike anything that I have read before.  I have never seen
> an author treat his characters with such realistic cruelty before.  I
> just think it is incredible.  He throws so many characters at you so
> fast, but handles them so well, that not once did I find myself
> confused about who was who.  The story has never hit a slow spot for me
> and I found it interesting and attention grabbing from page one.  This
> is by far one of the best series that I have read and highly recommend
> it to anyone who has not read it yet.  I am glad that I discovered the
> series late though, so I have 3 books to read.  I think I would have
> had a terrible time waiting years for each installment if I had started
> it at it's release.  Great stuff.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>  I read Game of Thrones and really liked it. It was a very complex and
detailed story. I haven't set aside time to take on the second book because
like you said, they are big. I do look forward to return to it, I hope he
tells more about the creatures in the forest in the next one.


He certainly does!
Peta

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
Fantasy_Books group:

Favorite character from Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire

   o Eddard Stark
   o Rob Stark
   o Jon Snow
   o Tyrion Lannister
   o Jamie Lannister
   o Arya Stark
   o Sansa Stark
   o Stannis Baratheon
   o Daenerys Targaryen
   o ser Joerah  Mormont
   o Cersi Lannister
   o Joffrey Baratheon
   o Theon Greyjoy
   o Catelyn Stark
   o Hodor
   o Bran Stark
   o Littlefinger
   o Varys the spider
   o The Hound
   o Bronn
   o Davos Seaworth, the onion knight
   o Asha Greyjoy
   o Edmure Tully
   o Ser Loras knight of flowers
   o Samwell Tarly


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fantasy_Books/surveys?id=1755415

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

I had anticipated soliciting advice on my next read and then fading
into the mist like any self respecting lurker.  Then, last night as I
sat gazing into a box of books deposited at my doorstep by a man in a
big brown truck, my trance was broken by the American Idol theme song
blaring from a nearby TV.  As I listened to the schoolboy banter
between Ryan Seacreast and Simon Cowell, a strange idea began to bubble
up inside me.

Fantasy Idol!

In my hands I held six highly recommended fantasy novels, and I was
looking for some method of selecting the best-of-the-best (excluding
gentlemens Tolkien and Martin) upon which to lavish my precious time.

It is doubtful that a more insipid idea could have conjured itself in
my mind but once it was there, I could not be rid of it.  There was
only one thing to do.  Start round one!

True to my inspiration, the first round would be short with each
contestant having just five pages to grab my attention.  At the end of
this round, one of my stellar authors would be eliminated.  For those
who have wisely avoided or forgotten my previous emails, here is a
quick rundown of the contestants:

The Bone Doll's Twin by Lynn Flewelling
Dragonbone Chair by Tad Williams
Assassins Apprentice by Robin Hobb
Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey
The Lions of Al-Rassan by Guy Kay
The Eye of the World by Robert Jordan

In true Idol fashion, I must keep you in suspense until the votes are
tabulated.  I will return tomorrow with the results of round one.

PS>  My goal, beyond my own personal amusement, is simply to spur
discussion of these books and authors.  If you find my little game
annoying, please treat me as you would in the flesh.  That is to say,
ignore me.  Life is too short to spend it flaming those with good but
perhaps slightly misplaced intentions.  Having said that, I welcome
differing and opposing opinions and I recognize that I do not have a
pipeline to the truth, let alone the credentials upon which to stake
such a claim.

Let the games begin!