Hello, Peter ... OOPS! Ask a bunch of mathematicians who do pure mathematics (as apposed to applied), and you will find out that this is not the case beyond...
Bonsoir, David (Monsieur) ... If you dislike my use of "religion";, you may substitute "dogmatism" for that word in my remarks. (I agree that there are...
Hallo, David (Monsieur), ... Ah. No. First, it could be an undecidable propositions. Secondly, the proposition can be meaningless (which is neither true nor...
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Bruno Marchal
marchal@...
Jul 1, 2008 4:53 pm
... Of course. I don' see why you mention two alternative. We are talking about the number of universes. As I said to John Murphy, the question is choosing...
Peter, You are denying the "real existence" of numbers (and other mathematical objects). What do you mean by that? Do you agree with some other sort of...
13951
Günther Greindl
guenther.greindl@...
Jul 1, 2008 4:54 pm
David Olivier, ... Well yes, the argumentation in a number of papers (and I agree with them) is that Penrose has misunderstood Godel's theorem. ... Disputed in...
... A lot of previously unbelievable propositions have been proved. To pick a couple of random example, Mach found the proposition that atoms exist ...
... I think this is the problem. You have made a number of "suggestive" remarks that might lead people to think you're arguing for a particular position, but...
13955
Bill Taylor
W.Taylor@...
Jul 1, 2008 4:57 pm
... If they are objective facts, then it's all over, AFAIC. I don't either understand or care about the adverbial modifier. ... I'm sure you know this is...
13956
Bill Taylor
W.Taylor@...
Jul 1, 2008 4:58 pm
-> If we could agree -> on axioms about ethics, there would be agreement about ethics. It is a humanities issue, not a science/math one. We can't even GET to...
... Bill, But aren't you offering the statement "there is no hope of getting any full & widespread agreement on such terms" as an axiom itself? If not, I claim...
... It is true that due to Godel one can't prove the correctness of any nontrivial mathematical system. But it is possible to ground most of mathematics on...
... A small demonstration that there must be mathematical objects that are not physical. Mathematical objects are those that fulfill axiom systems, theories....
... slipperiness. :) ... That's a pity. because it is what my argument pivots on. Blankly ignoring it is no refutation. ... There are ways of taking sameness...
... Some mathematical propositions assert that some mathematical object (mathematically) exists, and they are true. Others are false. So there is something to...
... NB: "Inasmuch";. Are you saying mathematicians who operate on the same formal basis will end up with different results? Or are you saying that they do not...
... I don't think that there is such a clear divide between “science” and "dogmatism" either. The idea that science is undogmatic and open and rational and...
... That may turn out to be relevant. But you could at least agree on the (slightly) weaker assertion: that if (...), then it is as good as if we had proven it...
... I am still skeptical about that, but of course it is an issue that would need investigation, not just our opinions. ... That objection is void of...
... What I was arguing is that the existence of disagreements about some X does not prove X to be non-factual. If anything, it counts as showing that at least...
... And neither of these satisfy my hypothesis, which is that the proposition is impossible to believe (by anyone). I was asking you to consider the reasoning...
... Some things in my position are vague, and a few aren't. I will of course attempt to be more specific when I find the time. In the meanwhile, yes, it's...
... There are lots of things besides ethical terms that we don't really know the meaning of. Such as particles, fields, reality, sentience, space, numbers,...
13971
Bill Taylor
W.Taylor@...
Jul 2, 2008 5:17 pm
Babak: -> To take Bill's previous example about timetables, Which is not all that helpful an example, here. As I mentioned at the time, it is a SUBjective...
13972
Bill Taylor
W.Taylor@...
Jul 2, 2008 5:18 pm
-> Well yes, the argumentation in a number of papers (and I agree with them) -> is that Penrose has misunderstood Godel's theorem. That's not perfectly...
Bonjour, Bruno I shall answer your comments in a slightly different order than you wrote them. ... a "pure" mathematical computer science theoretic "body...
... So what about the rest? If it isn't axiomatically gorounded or intuitivel appealing, how do we know it is true at all? ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFC...
