... It seems to me that we do have a sufficiently clear concept of consciousness to be able to discuss it. At least as clear than the concept of time, or line,...
... Telling *me* that *we* have a clear concept of consciousness -- and not even saying *what it is* -- is kind of ridiculous. Especially after I just said...
24525
Bruno Marchal
marchal@...
May 23, 2012 6:02 pm
... It is the belief in a reality. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/...
... One cannot formulate a clear concept without formulating an understanding of the problems to be solved. The question is designed to make the point that the...
... Other people have pointed out that you have not explained how you plan to solve the problem that your theory apparently clashes with the Turing principle,...
... It seems to me that this is a strict contradiction. Anything able to have a "false idea" is necessarily conscious. To have an idea at all is to presuppose...
... From: Fabric-of-Reality@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Fabric-of-Reality@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan Forrester Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2012 8:21 AM To:...
There are two issues facing both A.I. and the Turing Principle: Firstly...forget consciousness for a moment and rewrite his principle more simply "if a...
... It's false. For instance, one program might be exponentially less efficient than the other. That is a meaningful characteristic. That's why the principle...
... No, our subconscious mind has ideas. ... Consciousness is a vague concept and right now, as far as I'm aware, nobody knows the relationship between...
... Popperian epistemology and the Turing principle aren't based on assumptions, nor are they purported to be based on anything. Rather, both ideas are...
... if you look only at information output, and information output happens to be all we want from a computer, then there is no difference and similarly there...
24536
Bruno Marchal
marchal@...
May 24, 2012 7:24 pm
... I agree with Brett. Consciousness cannot be a false idea (of the conscious person) in the sense that if you are conscious you cannot be deluded on this,...
... That is an implication of *your view of consciousness*. But to assume your view of consciousness is *true*, in a reply to someone saying your conception of...
... What's so difficult to believe about thousands of non-philosophers going down a metaphorical dead end road together, which is a dead end due to reasons...
... This is the wrong way to look at computer programs. Programs with the same outputs for the same input are **not the same program**. For example they may...
... I don't see why an unconscious knowledge-generating computer program could not acquire a false idea that is it conscious. Like any knowledge creator, it...
... That's a bit of a straw man argument, as you have put additional baggage in the person who knows that he doesn't understand Chinese. If you ignore this...
24543
Bruno Marchal
marchal@...
May 25, 2012 5:10 pm
... If the idea "I am conscious" is false, and asserted by the machine, it is not a first person idea. But consciousness is a first person notion, so here...
... The same knowledge can be structured in many different ways and the structure affects our ability to use and to modify the knowledge. Knowing good ways to...
... Is it really a mistake for me to do this? Just change the subject to anything else at all and see how *your* response reads... "that is an implication of...
... A good place to start would be a bunch of non-programming examples and implications. Here is part of one, with some questions: We know in general terms...
... In Physics and Math, people tend to memorize formulas; I guess cause they think its easier. And this requires that they memorize which formulas apply to...
... Yes. It's called "begging the question". ... If someone questions your view of gravity, and your argument in reply uses your view of gravity as a premise...
... I don't think it is. If consciousness is a false idea then it does not exist. So the debate then is not about whether or not my 'view' of consciousness is...
"The laws of classical electromagnetism that were developed in the 19th century are the same laws that scientists use today. They include Maxwell's four...
... It could be that your conception of consciousness doesn't exist, but my conception does exist. Maybe yours is wrong but mine is right. It could be that it...
