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Defining Multiverses   Message List  
Reply Message #7859 of 24552 |
Re: 3 strands and the (local) preferred basis (was Re: Defining Multiverses)

Hello Simon,

SimonJAnthony@... wrote:

> In a message dated 15/07/03 20:17:11 GMT Daylight Time, m@...
> writes:
>
>
> > So if I can show that for each term in the superposed state, there
> is
> > one relative state, will I have answered the question?
> >
>
> I realise that I run the risk of being seen as obstinate in the
> extreme,
> particularly in a forum devoted to MWI, but there are still two
> principal issues
> which, due to my own slowness of brain, I haven't grasped:
>
> 1: Why is one basis rather than another preferred in MWI?

The basis by which to decompose the wavefunction is the one appropriate
to the interaction involved. Specifically, you're going to need to
break it down into a set of eigenfunctions for the operator
corresponding to the observable or interaction in question. You might
as well be asking why the position or momentum operators have the form
they do. I'm not saying that this isn't a valid question, but it does
apply equally to CI and MWI.

> 2: Decoherence diagonalizes the density matrix but the same
> resulting
> matrix can be produced by many distinct wave functions. How therefore
> does MWI
> select one of those states rather than another? In other words, why
> don't we
> see superpositions?

MWI does not select one state over any other. Rather, all states are
selected, with versions of the observer seeing each possible result.
The possible results and eigenstates are those appropriate to the
interaction/measurement operator. There's only one relative state per
eigenstate. We don't experience superpositions because the linearity of
the SWE ensures that relative states cannot interact, and evolve
separately after interacting with the superposed system. It would
therefore be impossible to create an entity whose consciousness is
informed by multiple relative states.

> What I mean by the first issue I think is clear to you. I can explain
> the
> second in more detail but it would probably be more clear if you read
> it in, eg,
> Ch 6 "Quantum Theory and Reality" of Penrose's book "Shadows of the
> Mind".
> If those questions can be answered satisfactorily (and there's the
> catch? - but
> I'll not be unreasonable) I'll willingly and gratefully accept that
> MWI is
> the "best" available interpretation of QM.

How am I doing?

Matt.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

When God plays dice with the Universe, He throws every number at once...

------------------------------------------------------------------------




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:36 pm

mwgurumw
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Message #7859 of 24552 |
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Hello Simon, ... So if I can show that for each term in the superposed state, there is one relative state, will I have answered the question? ... I think the...
Matt King
mwgurumw Offline Send Email
Jul 15, 2003
7:14 pm

Hello Simon, ... The basis by which to decompose the wavefunction is the one appropriate to the interaction involved. Specifically, you're going to need to ...
Matt King
mwgurumw Offline Send Email
Jul 17, 2003
12:49 am

... In earlier times the movement of the trees might have been associated with the breath of gods or some life-force causing the trees to express their ...
SimonJAnthony@... Send Email Jul 10, 2003
12:37 pm

... and maths ... these ... not ... through ... circumstances, ... after ... associated with ... their ... pressure systems or, ... usefully, ... matter as a ...
alan_forrester2 Offline Send Email Jul 10, 2003
1:17 pm

Hello Simon, ... Yes. My point is that all these interpretations acknowledge that the wind is real, even though in the window situation it can't be measured ...
Matt King
mwgurumw Offline Send Email
Jul 10, 2003
1:17 pm

In a message dated 10/07/03 14:19:03 GMT Daylight Time, ... Unless there is some difference in the predictions due to the different views, actual or in...
SimonJAnthony@... Send Email Jul 10, 2003
9:20 pm

... That is definitely not true. There are certain objective norms. Not everything is just a matter of taste (when the outward predictions pass the test) And...
Borzumehr Toloui
quantummoonw... Offline Send Email
Jul 10, 2003
9:50 pm

In a message dated 10/07/03 22:54:18 GMT Daylight Time, ... As far as I understand the terms, the phrase "objective norms" is self-contradictory. Please give...
SimonJAnthony@... Send Email Jul 11, 2003
12:38 pm

Hello Simon, ... I still believe that in the absence of experimental evidence to decide between two theories, Occam's razor can be used to make a valid choice ...
Matt King
mwgurumw Offline Send Email
Jul 11, 2003
1:35 pm

In a message dated 7/11/2003 1:39:42 PM GMT Daylight Time, ... Sounds to me like you formed two competing theories (not bad, given the time constraints...
PaintedDevil@...
charlesgoodw... Offline Send Email
Jul 11, 2003
1:35 pm

... But if they're truly equivalent then they can't be differentiated and if they can be differentiated, then a valid choice can be made. In either case O's R...
SimonJAnthony@... Send Email Jul 11, 2003
1:49 pm

... There are two levels of equivalence at work in here. The first level of equivalence is for those theories that predict exactly the same outcomes for any...
Mikko Särelä
mikko_sarela Offline Send Email
Jul 12, 2003
6:20 pm

Hello Simon, ... You're obviously missing the case of two theories that cannot be differentiated experimentally, but can be differentiated in other ways (such...
Matt King
mwgurumw Offline Send Email
Jul 11, 2003
7:04 pm

In a message dated 11/07/03 15:06:45 GMT Daylight Time, PaintedDevil@... ... In a trivial sense, one uses slightly different problem-solving methods in ...
SimonJAnthony@... Send Email Jul 11, 2003
7:07 pm

... Such differentiation is merely a matter of opinion and taste. Unless and until there's an empirical means for differentiating between the theories, such ...
SimonJAnthony@... Send Email Jul 12, 2003
6:23 pm

At the risk of appearing foolish, I just had a quick conjecture about a possible means of deciding the MWI vs. CI debate. (So far, I have only read up to Ch....
dekudekuplex Offline Send Email Jul 13, 2003
12:02 pm

Dear Ben, It seems to me that the number is necessarily infinite because, according to both classical and quantum mechanics, each "particle" has a continuous...
Stephen Paul King
stephenk1@... Send Email
Jul 13, 2003
7:45 pm

Hello Benjamin, ... Not necessarily. At present, nobody knows if space or time are quantised. If they are not, then there are an infinite number of places ...
Matt King
mwgurumw Offline Send Email
Jul 14, 2003
2:23 pm

... If angle is not quantized, then the emission of a single Photon causes an the multiverse to diverge into an infinity of different universes in that region...
Gary Oberbrunner
garyo2 Offline Send Email
Jul 14, 2003
2:24 pm

In a message dated 12/07/03 19:21:24 GMT Daylight Time, msarela@... ... If theories are equivalent, the "reasons" for preferring one or the other are ...
SimonJAnthony@... Send Email Jul 13, 2003
12:06 pm

In a message dated 7/11/2003 8:08:56 PM GMT Daylight Time, ... I don't think anyone would argue that the same set of circumstances can have different...
PaintedDevil@...
charlesgoodw... Offline Send Email
Jul 14, 2003
2:19 pm

... Perhaps because most people believe that the Pythagorean view has been refuted. Just consider the "little Pythagorean view" according to which -Every...
Bruno Marchal
marchal@... Send Email
Jul 17, 2003
12:50 am

Hello Simon, ... Usually a physical theory has two kinds of weakness. One is, it may be susceptible to experimental attack. That is, an experiment could be ...
Matt King
mwgurumw Offline Send Email
Jul 14, 2003
2:23 pm

Hi, Sorry for being a bit late with this response. ... Most people on this list seem to consider the role of theories and science in general to be that of...
Borzumehr Toloui
quantummoonw... Offline Send Email
Jul 18, 2003
1:46 pm

... In the example you give, M's and N's theories are incompatible, as you say. However, the only way of determining where the flaw lies is to do an ...
SimonJAnthony@... Send Email Jul 14, 2003
3:35 pm

In a message dated 14/07/03 15:20:18 GMT Daylight Time, PaintedDevil@... ... I agree that the Pythagorean view is interesting (if one thinks the use of ...
SimonJAnthony@... Send Email Jul 14, 2003
3:37 pm

... Perhaps the question should be "Who put the fire in the equation?". And perhaps the answer is that it is the *observer* who put the fire in the equation....
Bruno Marchal
marchal@... Send Email
Jul 17, 2003
1:05 pm

In a message dated 17/07/03 14:07:47 GMT Daylight Time, marchal@... ... Perhaps; sometimes I think that all philosophical problems can be reduced, or ...
SimonJAnthony@... Send Email Jul 18, 2003
1:45 pm

... Yes but in that case you postulate or take for granted some observable (physical ?) reality. I just say that (through the comp hyp) both the physical...
Bruno Marchal
marchal@... Send Email
Jul 19, 2003
12:59 am

In a message dated 7/18/2003 2:46:18 PM GMT Daylight Time, ... Then you're merely left with the job of explaining "why there's something rather than nothing" ...
PaintedDevil@...
charlesgoodw... Offline Send Email
Jul 18, 2003
2:09 pm
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