the devil is extra busy down here in OZ..

a new survey has women fessing up to an average of THIRTEEN sex
partners, and multiple partners are a growing trend.

link:
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23953161-5001021,00.html

quote
Sex lives of Australian women under the microscope
Article from: The Daily Telegraph


By Nadine Williams

July 02, 2008 12:00am

THE average Australian woman has 13 different sex partners in her
life, a major online survey has found.

Women are also cheating more on husbands and boyfriends, are becoming
more sexually experimental and are exploring porn.

It finds one in three women are forced to have sex, almost always by
men they know.

A new book based on the survey, Sex Lives of Australian Women, written
by film development executive Joan Sauers, is peppered with harrowing
stories of women carrying the emotional scars of sexual attack.

The gamut of women's sex lives - the good, the bad, the ugly and the
depraved - are exposed in the stories and opinions of about 2000 women
of all ages who completed an anonymous online survey.

They reported a range of experiences to show that sex is a
bitter-sweet experience for most Australian women. The survey also found:

 ONE in four women view pornography regularly;

 MOST women (61 per cent) masturbate at least once a month;

 ONE in five have starred in their own sex tape;

 MULTIPLE partners are a growing fad;

 MANY complain of boring sex lives and one in three rarely, if ever,
experience orgasm; and

 ALMOST half (49 per cent) say they want sex most of the time when it
is offered.

"A lot of women want more emotional connection, but a lot of women
said they want partners who are not 'rubbish' at sex," Ms Sauers said.

"They want men to take more time and the really big one is women want
emotional intimacy before sex."

Women needed to understand their voice was "your most important sexual
organ".

"He isn't going to know how if you don't tell him," she said.

"Women would rather fake orgasm than bother to explain how they would
like sex."

Corporate wife Jill Bourne agreed: Men needed to be "trained" on good
sex techniques, but also how to treat women appreciably.

"Trouble is women don't say what they want enough. It's not being
demanding; it's give and take," said Mrs Bourne, who is "blissfully
happy" with husband Ross.

Good sex cannot happen without a "loving, nurturing, touching"
environment.

"One man can be having sex with you, but he isn't into you at all and
another man who is loving you and making love to you and the
difference is dramatic. Too many women have to put up with the first."

----------

the participation blog is interesting to read at the end of the above
link.

eddie

from a friend on another gay 'ex-christian' site

another pentie 'coming out' story ..

as emailed to me by a friend. the original post was made on a
ex-christian site:

[quote] Last week, while on a job site, one of the court
administrators came into my Liquidation site.

Brought his son with him (gay, gay, and very cute, but gay.) My gaydar
was going off all over him, from the way he styled his hair, to the
way he kept adjusting his shirt for proper fit, to his hand gestures
and mannerisms. Anyways, we have multiple job sites going, which he is
the Administrator of these store closures. He is teaching his son this
line of the business, or trying too.

It's apparent they were extreme Pentecostals.

So last week, I decided to drop the bomb on his gay son and tell him
(Levi-the gay son) about myself when I caught him looking at gay porn,
- that we both have the same tastes.

He calmed down tremendously, and we actually became quite friendly
with each other. We chatted a lot about the Pentecostals vs my own
bunch of christian warriors and how fanatical they both are. He is 19
still lives at home with his parents and was very worried about them
finding out.

I gave him my number, told him he could call me anytime he ever needs
to talk.

So,since we were all were from out of town and sitting on a hill right
outside of the Air Force Base we decided to celebrate July 4th
together and bbq.

During the evening, his dad, (the Court Administrator) got on the Gay
subject.

Quite the homophobe......so I gently eased him into the fact that its
Straight people who breed Gay People. He looked at me very perplexed
and i had to explain to him this way..... Gay People Breed, but, we do
not have babies.

Then I lowered the bomb on him, telling him I was Gay. We have since
had several conversations about being Gay, how in many peoples mind
set, its a weakness, which I assured him its not. I did not out his
son, and would never do something like that.

But, I did tell him Gay people are everywhere, and no matter what his
bible says, its not from dropping a baby on the head, or not throwing
the ball enough (i.e. playing football) , and there is no miracle cure
for it, as its not a disease.

So anyways.... he seems much more ok with it, i suspect he will loose
a little more hair when reality strikes him that his own son is gay. I
hope, if anything I may have eased Levi's coming out experience,
whenever that may be?[/quote]

hey! what are you guys putting in the water over there? three stories
of fine upstanding "pillars" arrived in my email this morning, from my
network of spies....

all seem to be about guys who have hidden their real sexuality behind
a facade that included anti-gay statements, this demonstrating once
again the truth of my belief that if a scratch a homophobe, you find a
poofter underneath.

surely it's time for church leadership to ask if themselves whether
they are breeding hypocrisy in their churches?

eddie

-----------------------------------------------------------------

1.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2038925/posts

Deacon Charged With Lewd Act, Church Leader Allegedly Exposed Himself
In Milwaukee Park
wisn ^ | 05.29.08

Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:43:43 AM by Coleus

Police have been targeting Estabrook Park for years trying to stop men
from soliciting sex from other men there.

The latest suspect is 48-year-old Jerome Pitchford, long-time deacon
of Milwaukee's Holy Redeemer Church of God in Christ. The warm weather
seems to expose the issue at the park, and in this case, the apparent
secret of a married man with children, a church leader. Police said
Pitchford apparently does not practice what he teaches in Sunday
School. Police say after church at the Holy Redeemer Church of God in
Christ on Sunday afternoon, he was arrested and charged with lewd and
lascivious behavior at Milwaukee's Estabrook Park.

The criminal complaint says he was looking for sex with another man.
He exposed himself, to what turned out to be an undercover police
officer. As WISN-TV 12 News reported in late 2006, this type of
illegal activity is a constant problem that law enforcement has not
been able to stop. "They initiate either by you know grabbing the
officer, which is fourth-degree sexual assault or exposing themselves,
which is lewd and lascivious behavior," said Milwaukee County
Sheriff's Deputy John Nelson.

Parishioners and a neighbor of Jerome Pitchford say they're stunned
that he was caught up in this kind of activity. "I just couldn't
believe it and I was still wondering was it true, because I couldn't
believe it cause he's such … a gentleman," said Bernice Sykes,
Pitchford's neighbor.

He's not only a gentleman, but a deacon, a youth counselor and mentor,
says one parishioner who wanted to he heard but not seen. "I'm so
speechless, i can't believe that," the parishioner said. "I can't
believe it, but I hope that he will get … a little therapy and get
himself straightened out," Sykes said.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
2.
http://www.gaywired.com/Article.cfm?ID=19587

Alabama Attorney General Caught in Gay Sex Scandal Removed from McCain
Website

Alabama Attorney General Troy King found himself in the midst of a gay
sex scandal last week after reports began to circulate that he was
busted having sex with a male assistant by his wife, Paige King, in
the couple's own bed. Now to add fuel to the fire, King, the chairman
of John McCain's Alabama Leadership Team, has been removed from the
presumptive Republican presidential nominee's website.

Last week, reports began hitting the news wires that Troy King, a
conservative Christian Republican who has called homosexuality the
"downfall of society," may be on the way to resigning his post as
Alabama Attorney General over a gay sex scandal.

After being caught having sex with his male aide by his wife, Troy
King was reportedly banished from his home in Montgomery by his
infuriated spouse, according to PerezHilton.com. So far, King's office
has denied the rumors of the affair and state the Alabama Attorney
General has no plans to resign from his post.

King is a long-time supporter of presumptive Republican presidential
nominee John McCain and his name has been tossed about as a possible
candidate for Alabama governor in 2010.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
3. http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/C23/
(scroll down)

District Heights Mayor James L. Walls, an associate minister at a
local church, has been charged with soliciting a male prostitute in DC
this week.

QUOTE: The 30-year-old fast-rising black political star — he holds
positions with nationwide civic groups and the local NAACP chapter,
among others — has been charged with solicitation for lewd and immoral
purposes after he allegedly attempted to pick up an undercover
District officer who was posing as a male prostitute around 12:30 a.m.
at Sixth and F streets NW, police said.

...In 2006, Walls became the youngest mayor in District Heights
history and his term extends through 2010. He's a young, single guy
with a bright future, Thomas said. Walls, an ordained minister, is on
the board of directors for the National Black Caucus of Local Elected
Officials, he founded the Maryland Black Caucus of Local Elected
Officials and he sits on a number of state and national
commissions.UNQUOTE.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.globalgayz.com/g-china07.html


GAY CHINA 2007

Intro: "China is actually very misunderstood. During the last three
national Peoples Congress meetings in China proposals have been
presented to legalize same sex relationships." So reports an American
gay businessman living in China who wants to share the 'good news'
about modern China and its emerging gay population.

By Dr. Jason Moore Ph.D
Beijing, China
February 2007

Gay China From the Inside--a Gay American Living in China Tells
Stories about the 'Good Life'.

My name is Jason Moore. I have lived in China now for five years plus.
I own my home here. I have a couple of small businesses here. My home
is in Beijing. I have traveled to 98 different cities around China ,
mainly for business but also for visiting.
The one thing I have done is to always check out the local city to see
if there is any gay life of any kind. What I have found is very
interesting: I have found gay life in every city I have visited, which
has amazed me.

China is actually very misunderstood. During the last three national
Peoples Congress meetings in China proposals have been presented to
legalize same sex relationships. In fact in 2006 one of China's best
known sociologists presented a study that had been done during the
previous year that documented the general populations attitudes on
same sex relationships. What she concluded was that most Chinese did
not have any problem with the idea of same sex relationships. What
their main concern seemed to be was that their children would not have
someone to take care of them when they became old (not understanding
that same sex relationships can last) . She concluded that it would
not cause any problems with social harmony if the government were to
legalize same sex relations due to the fact that the Chinese people
have a history of accepting changes in laws by the government.

The refreshing part of China is a lack of prejudice-creating Christian
beliefs that fuels the fires of the U.S. I came to China five years
ago. I had a relationship that had lasted 22 years. After coming to
China my life partner decided he wanted to date Chinese men. So we
altered our lifestyle and we still live together but each of us has
found a new partner. I have been with my new partner for two and a
half years and he is with a new partner now for just three months. We
all live in the same home with zero problems.

We designed our current home to accommodate this change so that we can
live together but still have privacy. We do have the usual
relationship problems with our respective lovers. There are the
cultural differences to be aware of also. But for the most part being
gay in China is much freer, no one is yelling at queers, throwing
bottles, or being just rude because they do not like your lifestyle. I
enjoy the fact that it does not matter if we go to a `straight' bar or
gay bar. We can dance and be ourselves wherever we are and not have to
worry about the gay bashing that I was always aware of as being a
potential problem.

During my travels in China (and I have traveled a lot) I have never
been threatened, felt uncomfortable, or ever been in any situation
where I was concerned for my safety. Once I was in a disco in a city
called Tongzhou and I was told that two gangs were having a fight in
the lobby entrance and that I should not go out there for a few
minutes. But I wanted to test an idea, so I went to the lobby. Sure
enough there were about twenty or thirty guys attempting to bang each
other around with a few bats and a couple of those big trash cans. The
bathrooms were directly across the room so to get to them I had to
walk right thru the middle of the guys fighting. So I did.
As I walked they actually managed to not stop fighting but to also
separate so I had a path to the bathroom . They saw that I was a
`weiguoren' so that makes me off limits. I walked to the bathroom and
then came back and each time was the same.

One other story I found interesting. One day I was inspecting a
company outside of Taiyuan . My translator (I do speak mandarin but
not well enough for business negotiations) knows I am gay. She and I
have a game of trying to spot the gay guys. (She is straight) . What
really threw her and me for a surprise was that after our inspection
we sat down to have lunch and one of the V.P.'s from the company we
were visiting sat down next to us and starting talking as we were
eating. He spoke pretty good English. He started off by saying he had
a bad day because his "lover" had the flu and he had to take him to
the hospital the night before because he could not stop throwing up. I
then said sorry to here that I hope she feels better soon, but he then
said his lover is a man , not a woman. He then told us how they had
met and how he had left his wife after three years of marriage because
he realized he actually loved this guy more then his wife.
Now this is a situation you had to be present to understand just how
unusual this was. This was in a small town in China where I never
would have imagined this conversation. He said that his ex-wife hates
his lover but he was ok with that because he is happier then he had
been before.

There is a very large foreign gay population in Beijing where we live
and we have created a pool of friends. The bet is that China approves
same-sex relationships and marriage long before the United States even
gets past the "don't ask--don't tell" hang up.

I have been surprised by the truth about China ever since I first came
to realize what China is all about. I have been constantly amazed
about how much misinformation exists , particularly in the United
States. I came to China by mistake , but quickly realized that
everything I was afraid of before coming was misinformation. I believe
the U.S. (government) feels there is a need to have a boogey man (so
to speak) to enable the U.S to maintain it's military expenditures.
Currently it is centered on the middle east, but after it will need a
new target.

China will be the largest economic super power within the next 15
years. The fastest growing middle class is in China. More people are
buying homes and cars. China is predicted to be the largest car
market, the largest consumer goods market in human history once the
middle class is fully established. (I am not political in any way ,
and I do not get involved in politics).

But there is so much inaccurate information concerning human rights in
China I have made it a point to pay attention. I was a practicing
psychologist in San Diego in the '80's so I have an interest in many
facets of society here. I also have spoken at Peking University on two
occasions after being invited to discuss same sex relationships to a
couple of small groups that were interested in understanding the
lifestyles in the United States.

I do have many other experiences that I was totally surprised by (in a
very good way) as I traveled around China. One very important point
that is necessary to understand about China is that this is not a
"communist" country in the way we were led to believe communism is
supposed to be. It is what I like to call capitalistic socialism.
China is actually the fastest growing economy of independent
successful small businesses you could ever imagine.

What I have really enjoyed about China is that I can go to any disco,
any bar, and I "never" have to give a single second of thought to
prejudice or homophobic behavior. Many times Chinese men will dance
with me--straight ones--and have a great time. There is not the
attitude here that gay people get from most "straight" bar
environments. Many Chinese gay people are now becoming open about
their lifestyles (but it does still have a long way to go). Many of my
friends will talk to me about not telling their parents about their
boyfriends, but also many times they come up to me and tell me that
they finally did and their parents already knew. Just didn't talk
about it to them. But because it is their son they still love them
anyway. (I can think of five or six friends in the last few months
that have told their parents and now feel better).

One problem in China is you have two separate cultures, so to speak.
You have the well educated middle aged Chinese who understand and
therefore are more accepting when their children tell them. Then you
have the rural parents who have a tendency (from the years of being
large families) to feel that their sons need children to be secure in
their old age.

So many things are transitioning. That is what makes China such an
interesting place to live. What is today will be different tomorrow.
There are many active gay groups on college campuses (they are small
groups). I have the dubious label of being the oldest full time
student to ever attend Beijing Second Foreign Language University. In
China `older' people do not go to college as a rule. I even had to
have special permission to attend classes due to my age, which at the
time was 49. Everybody kept telling me I should be one of the
professors instead of a student. (They also told me on a regular basis
that they `know' because of my older age that I cannot learn as fast
as the younger students, so the professors would be easier on me).

There are also many active gay business groups. I belong to a group in
Beijing known as PROMEN (there are others). This is a group with
around 700 total members. We are mainly gay businessmen, both Chinese
and foreign. We meet each week on Thursday. Our current location of
choice for regular socials is a place known as the "Q" bar. The object
is to be able to network thru the gay business community and support
each other.

What I am trying to point out here is that there is a healthy, active,
growing gay population (granted we are new and evolving), but the
reality of China is that it is a great place to be and it is not the
dangerous, prejudiced, repressive country that so many people seem to
believe. It isn't perfect. As a gay man I feel safe and able to live
my life without the fear of gay bashing, egg throwing homophobic
straight men trying to eliminate our existence from this planet.

Anthony, i'm glad you enjoyed jason moore's account of his gay life in
china. there are many factors that have obscured the reality of china
today, i selected jason's article simply because he's american, and
gay and can 'see' china thru the similar 'eyes' to most of us here.

there IS a darker side to life in  china. but it's often difficult to
see it with clarity simply (IMHO) because the western propaganda
machine is grinding out a lot of misinformation.

one trouble in analysing news and views in the west is that good news
does not sell newspapers or magazines (just ask my old religion- the
jws, a common opening line at doors is, isn't the world in a bad way).
stories have to feature the bleak side, or 'hook' you with 'bad news

china still has a lot of 'bleakness'. the collapse of the qing empire
(under pressure from the west) left the chinese people in a mess as
the country collapsed first into warlordism, then the japanese
invasion (that turned into WW2) then civil war. 1949 and the
establishment of the peoples republic brought an end to 50 + years
of disturbance.

as the new government sat down for cabinet meetings in beijing in 1949
i've often wondered how they sorted out the chaos and the mess.

the west did not help. the USA got the shits with 'new china', because
things were not done the way the american establishment wanted it
done. the american establishment felt they had 'lost' china to what
they percieved as their enemy, international communism. sanctions were
placed on other countries dealing with china, for decades it was very
difficult for the chinese to get any financial help to re-develop the
ruins of the old china. Sad to say the political use of sanctions
(think Iraq, before the invasion, vietnam, until recently,  and burma.
just for starters) hurts the lowest levels of society more than the
upper levels.

yesterday, george bush made a point of going to church in china, and
saying to his hosts, that religion will not hurt you, and there should
be more freedom of religion in china.

here's some points of mine.

1. Religion often DOES hurt people, as many here can testify.

2. Religion has often been involved in wicked things. I am thinking of
the religious inquisition of the catholic church, the terrible wars
between catholics and protestants in europe which included burning
your religious enemies at the stake.

anyway, my own opinions aside what is the real situation of religion
in china ?

do many people realise that one of the world's largest bible
publishing companies is in china? the nanjing based amity publishing
recently (this year) printed their 50 millionth copy of the bible,
over 40 million of which have been distributed WITHIN china.

The printers, the Amity Foundation - a Chinese Christian organization
- and United Bible Societies Publishing Co, is the only authorized
publisher of Bibles in China. And when it opens its new factory in
Nanjing province this year, Amity will be able to churn out 12 million
books a year.

yes! religious organisations are tightly controlled, but is that all
bad ?

in most western countries there is more protection for the public in
the field of fiannce and money than in religion. Shonky religions
(cults, if you like) are free to hook people into their religions
without safeguards - i'm thinking of scientology, the exclusive
brethren, the little pebble , yes, even my former religion, the jws,
who have no hesitation in stopping families talking to their gay kids,
on the grounds that giving them the cold shoulder (shunning) will
bring them to their senses.

freedom of belief is one thing, freedom to preach without safeguards
is something else.

few westerners may know of the taiping movement in 19th century china.
a chinese, hong xiuquan came into contact with protestant
missionaries. after an illness he started preaching that he was the
younger brother of jesus and during his illness had been to heaven
where he had fought the demons alongside jesus. hong set out to
conquer china for jesus. it cannot be said that ruling qing dynasty
was a model of virtue, but (smile) at least there were few
prohibitions on homosexuality.

but jesus younger brother hong had gotten god's laws in heaven, and
legislated in the territories that came under his control that anyone
13 years or older that engaged in same sex activity was to be beheaded.

before hong's rebellion was over, some 30,000,000 people were dead.

at the same time, a muslim rebellion (known as the naian rebellion)
likely ended the lives of some 10 to 20 million people. no-one ever
worked out quite what the nian rebellion was about.

i think if i was the chinese government i'd also be a bit wary about
religion.

does any one know whether george bush actually went to school ? or,
does he just say whatever crap comes into his head?

sydney's best known homophobe is the reverend fred nile. dr gordon
moyle can't be too far behind in the race to be top homophobe.

both have entered politics to 'bring jesus to government', i guess is
the way that you'd describe it (jesus hasn't bothered to respond how
he feels about being represented by them)

from the weekend sun-herald:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/09/06/1220121593002.html


quote

Christian soldiers at war

Lisa Carty NSW Political Editor
September 7, 2008

EXCLUSIVE

STATE Parliament's most famous Christian is a paranoid, friendless old
man who eats fast food on his lonesome in a western suburbs motel,
says the man who should be his closest ally.

In an astonishing attack on his leader, Christian Democrats MP Gordon
Moyes has accused the Reverend Fred Nile, 73, of being a greedy bully.
In return, Mr Nile claims the Reverend Moyes is not just paranoid but
mentally ill.

Simmering tensions between the two boiled over into all-out war when
Mr Moyes asked for his parliamentary office to be moved from within Mr
Nile's, claiming his staff had been subjected to bullying and harassment.

Mr Moyes, 69, in his second upper house term, said that, in 50 years
of Christian activity, he had never known such a toxic atmosphere.

The only option was for them both to resign from Parliament at the
same time to be replaced by two young people, Mr Moyes said. It was
now a case of "if you jump, I'll jump too", he said.

Mr Moyes said Mr Nile - the upper house's assistant president - had
manipulated naive, good-willed Christians who recently installed him
as party president for life.

"Fred's manipulation of a democratic party was disgraceful, but not
unexpected," Mr Moyes said.

"He has become a pathetic figure. He is a loner, he has no peers as
friends.

"In spite of the intensity of Parliament he works all day in his
office with his door closed. He eats his fast-food meals alone and he
spends every night alone in a cheap motel in western Sydney.

"He has no interest in sports, crafts, hobbies or garden; is
accountable to no Christian support group or prayer group; and he
never laughs.

"In old age, Fred is committed to gaining money and status, and with
attacking any who disagree with himself."

Mr Nile hit back, telling The Sun-Herald: "Some people have remarked
that he has become a bit unbalanced and is in need of a psychiatric
evaluation."

Re-elected last year until 2015, Mr Nile said he had no intention of
resigning and owed it to his supporters and "millions" of friends to
stay put.

"I intend to continue as long as it's God's will," he said. "I'm not
too old. I'm fighting fit, never better. I have learned a lot in the
last 27 years and I am still making a contribution."

Mr Nile, who lives on the South Coast, said it was perfectly usual for
non-Sydney based MPs to stay in motels while Parliament was sitting.
He was not a bully and had a friendly relationship with Mr Moyes's staff.

The breakdown of their relationship was very disappointing, he said,
but he had been warned that Mr Moyes was likely to stab him in the back.

lcarty@...
Source: The Sun-Herald

Hello

After a rather lengthy hiatus from the internet, I have relocated from
Adelaide to Brisbane with my boyfriend.

Being in a new place for me is tough to meet new people etc ... so I am
wondering of anyone can give any info on Churches/Groups etc in which
to start looking.

Thanks!
Matt

Hi Matt

Welcome to Brisbane. I attend MCC Brisbane and we meet at 10 Hampson St, Kelvin Grove on a Sunday at 7pm.

Once a month, we have a Crave Service for Pentecostal people on the 4th Sunday of each month (subject to change in January once the new Pastor takes over).

There are groups for Anglican, Catholic and SDA but no Freedom 2 b in Brisbane.

Yowee

--- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "splattiee" <mjpengilley@...> wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> After a rather lengthy hiatus from the internet, I have relocated from
> Adelaide to Brisbane with my boyfriend.
>
> Being in a new place for me is tough to meet new people etc ... so I am
> wondering of anyone can give any info on Churches/Groups etc in which
> to start looking.
>
> Thanks!
> Matt
>

Hi Matt,

Don't be nervous about MCC.  I attend the one in Sydney & most people
who go to MCC are really nice.

I'll admit that I've never been to the Brisbane one, so I can't really
say.  But if Yowee goes, then they must be a great bunch :-)

Pete

2008/9/19 Matthew Pengilley <mjpengilley@...>:
> Thanks Yowee,
>
> I have spoken to another MCC'er so I might get along one night soon
> (although I am a little nervous about it),
>
>
> ----
> Matt
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 16/9/08, Yowee <hivyo@...> wrote:
>
> From: Yowee <hivyo@...>
> Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: New to Brisbane
> To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Tuesday, 16 September, 2008, 3:56 PM
>
> Hi Matt
> Welcome to Brisbane. I attend MCC Brisbane and we meet at 10 Hampson St,
> Kelvin Grove on a Sunday at 7pm.
> Once a month, we have a Crave Service for Pentecostal people on the 4th
> Sunday of each month (subject to change in January once the new Pastor takes
> over).
> There are groups for Anglican, Catholic and SDA but no Freedom 2 b in
> Brisbane.
> Yowee
> --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com, "splattiee" <mjpengilley@ ...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello
>>
>> After a rather lengthy hiatus from the internet, I have relocated from
>> Adelaide to Brisbane with my boyfriend.
>>
>> Being in a new place for me is tough to meet new people etc ... so I am
>> wondering of anyone can give any info on Churches/Groups etc in which
>> to start looking.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Matt
>>
>
> ________________________________
> Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail.
>



--
Pete Zayonce
m: 0410248621

strictly speaking this was NOT getting married, as australia does not
provide for registration of same sex relationships.

however, i'll post it as the happy couple were "married" in a
synagogue in a ceremony conducted by a rabbi.

there's a pik of the couple here:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/life--style-hom...1935450608.html

that i think will be only available for a week

what was really wonderful (imho) was the fact that each guy walked
down the aisle in the arms of/with their parents...

QUOTE
Scott Whitmont and Christopher Whitmont-Stein processed down the aisle
together, Mr Whitmont on the arms of his parents and Mr Whitmont-Stein
with his mother and sister, before taking part in the first
faith-sanctioned, same-gender commitment made on Australian soil.UNQUOTE


and here's the full story.(Note) - i don't think the reporter got it
right, this is unlikely to have been the first same sex ceremony in a
religious building in OZ- there have been some rather adventuresome
anglicans in the past.


QUOTE
Chuppah chaps seal union in same-sex first
Linda Morris Religious Affairs Writer
September 22, 2008

IT WAS a "wedding" ceremony with a difference. Scott Whitmont and
Christopher Whitmont-Stein processed down the aisle together, Mr
Whitmont on the arms of his parents and Mr Whitmont-Stein with his
mother and sister, before taking part in the first faith-sanctioned,
same-gender commitment made on Australian soil.

The couple tried to keep to Jewish tradition yesterday. They wed under
the traditional Jewish canopy, or chuppah; they said blessings over
cups of wine, and they broke a glass. But when it came to the bride
circling the groom seven times to symbolise their lives entwined there
was no bride at the progressive Emanuel Synagogue in Woollahra, so the
pair shared the duties and circled each other 3½ times.

Orthodox Judaism, like Christianity and Islam, forbids ceremonies for
same-sex unions, although some congregations welcome homosexuals. But
the Union for Progressive Judaism last year approved "same-gender
commitment ceremonies between two Jews", paving the way for the two
men to receive a formal acknowledgement of their relationship from
their faith.

Yesterday's "commitment ceremony" was officiated by Rabbi Jeffrey
Kamins, of the Emanuel Synagogue, who had blessed the couple the day
before their full-scale civil wedding almost to the day, six years
earlier.

Back then, they were confident their religion would catch up with
societal expectations but did not know when.

"We are thrilled our relationship will be recognised by our community,
and that's the most exciting part," said Mr Whitmont-Stein, who
converted to the faith in June 2002.

The couple said they did not go out of their way to pioneer same-sex
partnerships and did not believe there would be a sudden rush of
Jewish commitment ceremonies.

"We may be setting an example but it's not that we are out there
forcing this," Mr Whitmont-Stein said. "We only know of one other
couple planning a similar ceremony. Basically some people don't
believe in marriage, gay or straight."

His partner said: "We're very happy to set an example that having a
religious life and being gay is not mutually exclusive."

Rabbi Kamins said the commitment ceremony was a first for Australia,
Asia and New Zealand. It had been designed to be "respectful of the
law that prohibits weddings between people of the same sex" and
respected a majority view that "wants to see these as distinctive from
weddings".

"We recognise that we don't speak for the entire Jewish world but we
are embracing this couple's relationship and we hope they feel this is
a place of true welcome and hope that draws them to a deepening of
faith as well."

i thot this dam funni - hope you do also... from another board .

eddie

---------------------

THE TOWER OF BABEL

by Richard Nathan

BIBLE READER: And the whole earth was of one language, and of one
speech. And they said, let us build us a city and a tower. And the
Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of
men builded. And the Lord said, "Behold, the people is one, and they
have all one language, and now nothing will be restrained from them."

Enter NIMROD from one side of the stage and God from the other.

NIMROD: What's going on here! One minute we're all speaking one
language, and the next minute, no one can understand anyone else!

GOD: I, the Lord thy God, have confounded your language!

NIMROD: Why did you do that?

GOD: There was total cooperation!

NIMROD: So?

GOD: You were going to build a sky scrapper!

NIMROD: So?

GOD: It was going to be really tall!

NIMROD: So?

GOD: Really, really tall!

NIMROD: So?

GOD (searching for an excuse): You didn't have a building permit!

NIMROD: So? You gave people different languages and drove them apart
because they were cooperating? You think cooperation is a bad
thing???? Listen, maybe you should consider eating of that fruit of
the knowledge of good and evil, because your values seem to be
seriously out of whack!

GOD: Do not judge me! I am the Lord, thy God! My ways are beyond your
understanding!

NIMROD: So you forbid mankind to judge you?

GOD: Absolutely right!

NIMROD: But you want us to praise and worship you, don't you? Isn't
praise a form of judgment?

GOD: Let me rephrase myself. I forbid you to judge me negatively. I
give you permission to judge me positively.

NIMROD: All right, if you'll just explain why we should judge you
positively, when you just punished us for cooperating with each other.
When did "Thou shalt not cooperate" become one of your commandments?
Were you really so threatened by a skyscraper that you had to divide
mankind and end cooperation? Can you please explain that to me? Please?

God realizes He doesn't have an answer.

GOD: No hablo Englais.

Exit God in one direction and Nimrod in the other.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4893735.ece?token=null&off\
set=0&page=1

From The Times
October 7, 2008
The camp that 'cures' homosexuality
At a Christian 'boot camp' in the US, those struggling to reconcile
faith and sexuality are taught to overcome gayness
A participant wears a religious symbol during EuroPride parade in central Madrid
Lucy Bannerman

How many of you are in need of some hope here tonight?" A murmur
passes through the dark auditorium, pleasing the man with the
microphone. Heads nod. "How many of you are at the end of your rope?"
he continues. "How many are ready for an encounter with the Lord?" The
man on stage, dressed in chinos and a crisp white shirt, is Alan
Chambers. The clean-cut, married father of two is the leader of Exodus
International, an organisation that believes it can help people to
"find freedom from homosexuality through the love of Jesus Christ".

Exodus is one of the ministries of the so-called "ex-gay" movement, a
controversial fundamentalist Christian campaign that encourages gay
people to renounce their sexuality. This, its annual conference,
promises "an amazing week of breakthroughs, transformations and
healings". A Christian rock band begins to play and the 800 men and
women who moments earlier seemed to have only awkwardness in common
begin singing and clapping in unison. Eyes closed, they raise their
hands above their heads, uplifted by the hope of being reborn.

Chambers later returns to the stage and stands before them,
triumphantly heterosexual. He tells the crowd that he won't judge
homosexuals, even if their own churches have, because he used to be
one himself. In the hushed auditorium, he describes his first
experience of a gay bar. "It was almost as if I'd grown up handicapped
and everyone else was handicapped, too. But it was a counterfeit. I
was fooled."

"Am I in denial?" he asks. "Absolutely. I live a life of denial and I
love it. I didn't choose my same-sex feelings but I do choose how I'm
going to steward them. Freedom is possible." At Exodus people are not
gay; they "struggle with same-sex attraction" (SSA).

"The opposite of homosexuality is not heterosexuality," says Chambers,
sagely. "It's holiness." Speech over, he asks people to come forward
to be prayed for. A boy of no more than 16 steps up, hanging his head.
When he returns from the stage to the sound of applause, his
stony-faced father nods in approval. His mother weeps.

Welcome to ex-gay boot camp.

The belief that homosexuality can be overcome has been fuelling
controversy in the US for decades. Although research supporting SSA
therapy has been discredited, "ex-gay" ministries are expanding
worldwide, even in the UK, where a discreet network practises SSA
therapy under the umbrella of "Christian counselling".

Consider the crisis within the Anglican community over homosexuality,
and Exodus begins to offer a strangely seductive solution to
reconciling faith and sex. Yet it has been claimed by critics, many of
whom have undergone treatment themselves, that some same-sex
attraction therapy can exacerbate anxiety and depression, in extreme
cases leading to suicidal feelings.

Ridgecrest Retreat is a white, antiseptic blot in the blue-green Smoky
Mountains in North Carolina. Masquerading as one of the hundreds of
"homosexual strugglers" who visit the Exodus campus, I arrived here
after registering online for six days of evangelism psychotherapy.

New arrivals are greeted by a row of friendly staff. Eric, a perfectly
coiffured team member from Florida, puts his hand on my shoulder and
promises me a "very impactful" experience. Name tags (to be worn at
all times) are distributed, as is a schedule of workshops and worship
sessions, and room keys. It strikes me as slightly cruel that an event
for people battling with their homosexuality should offer shared rooms
with strangers of the same sex.

My roommate is Michelle, a 28-year-old who has recently broken up with
her girlfriend. A nurse from Ohio who likes Metallica and Christian
rock, she has a natural shyness offset by a hearty laugh.

"I used to be out and proud so I can't believe I'm here and not
protesting," she says, "but I wanted to see what it was all about."
This is her first conference and she is accompanied by a support group
of impossibly cheerful women, all of whom are ardent believers in the
Exodus philosophy.

The first full day requires us to pick our classes. I sign up for
"Journey Through Lesbianism", a workshop addressing possible factors
contributing to the development of lesbianism. These include,
apparently, "unhealthy relationships with family members and peers,
abuse, shame and self-hatred". Loneliness, the media, and being
deprived of affection as a baby in a hospital incubator will later be
added to the list.

The lesson starts ominously. "What a bunch of fine-looking ladies we
have here today," the wiry, bespectacled lecturer says to the sullen
women squeezed into tight rows of chairs.

"We're dealing with attraction here, and you're bunching us all up
together?" snorts one redhead, before being calmed down by the woman
sitting next to her. "I'm sorry," she apologises, "but it has been an
intense day." It is 10.45am.

Next up is "Overcoming Guilt and Shame", led by a sad, wearied and
overweight woman named Bonnie who used to be a probation officer. "I
still have same-sex attraction," she sighs at one point, "but it's
like elevator music to me now. I just don't pay attention to it." A
strange practical exercise follows, involving picking derogatory name
tags out of a hat. A handsome youth with an American smile sticks
"defiled" to his polo shirt. How this helps his internet porn
addiction is anyone's guess, although he generously cedes that "we're
all sexually broken".

The timetable is packed. A class on "True Femininity", which concludes
cryptically that true femininity "is the ability to receive", would
probably have reduced Germaine Greer to tears. Another features an
Angela Lansbury lookalike who manages to link her gay ex-husband's
death from an Aids-related illness to his father's links with the
"Serbian mafia".

Some of my classmates are veteran Exodus followers attending the
annual conference for a "willpower top-up", like recovering alcoholics
going to AA meetings; others are boot camp virgins. Everyone has paid
$600 (£340) for the privilege. Chatting before his "Breaking the Myth
of Masculinity" class, Riccardo, a doctor from Illinois, explains that
he has come here for "encouragement and moral support" after tiring of
anonymous encounters with other men.

Each evening, a roll-call of "former homosexuals" hold up their
husbands and wives like kitemarks of their newfound heterosexuality.
We are told repeatedly that marriage is evidence of healing.
Stereotypes are the ex-gay currency, and the heterosexual ideal is
practically ringed by a white picket fence. Christine Sneeringer, the
compere, jokes that her recovery is going so well that she has given
up car mechanics ("it trashes my nails"). Exodus vice-president Randy
Thomas, on the other hand, delights the crowd with his campness: "Just
because I stopped being gay 16 years ago doesn't mean I can't be
fabulous," he says. Clearly, gaydar has yet to be invented on planet
Exodus.

It could be comical were it not for the teenager shaking in the
corner, and the man sobbing as he prayed. Excusing herself from a
session, Michelle goes to her room and cries. "I don't think I want to
willpower right through it," she confides before going to sleep.
"Where's the change in that?" Later I find her surfing the website of
the protesters who have been picketing the campus. They are led by
Wayne Besen, an ex-gay-camp-attendee-turned-campaigner (an ex-ex-gay,
so to speak).

In a furtive conversation by the car park, one protester, Sara, tells
me: "We just want them to know that you can be gay and happy - and
that there is a supportive community out there."

"I've been through all the arguments, like 'If it's love, how can it
be wrong?'" says Michelle the next day. "And if I'm being honest, I'd
love to be openly gay and have a completely satisfying relationship
with God. But I don't know how that can be done. All I know is that it
makes more sense to listen to the God who created the Universe than to
my puny human emotions."

By day four, my appetite for psychotherapy is waning. I drag myself to
a seminar entitled "Walking Away from the Lesbian Mentality". On
finding that the class leader is an aggressively happy woman with a
guitar who sings about hating her mother, I want to do just that. Yet,
putting aside the draining therapy sessions, it's almost easy to
believe that this is simply a happy Christian summer camp. You can
even play wargames in the woods - perhaps it's a way of completing
that holy trinity of US obsessions: God, guns and gays.

Back in her room, Michelle has had an epiphany. "I've realised that
I've been looking for satisfaction in all the wrong places - food,
drugs, sex," she says, firmly. "My homosexuality is just one of many
things to come from this place of pain, and all it gave me was a heart
full of ache.

"If God desired man and woman to be together, how can you be a good
Christian and have a gay relationship?

If the Exodus experience seems far-fetched - the sort of thing that
could happen only in America - then think again. A number of
organisations are believed to offer same-sex attraction therapy,
albeit more discreetly, in the UK. These including God's Healing of
Broken Emotions, in Inverness; Living Waters, in Central London, and
Exodus's official UK partner, Re-alignment (slogan: "reinventing
people"), another counselling service based in London. If the
directors of these organisations are prepared to comment, then it is
only to dismiss the term "ex-gay". But they neither confirm nor deny
use of same-sex attraction therapy.

There appear to have been no complaints about the activities of any of
these organisations and websites report many success stories, but
there are those who claim that their involvement with other therapists
has been a far-from-positive experience. Peterson Toscano spent 17
years and £20,000 in the US and UK trying to suppress his identity as
a gay man. "It is a far more subtle seduction over here," he says.
Toscano claims that therapists in Britain - who he says tried to
exorcise his gay demons in Kidderminster, in the West Midlands -
nearly drove him to suicide. "There is no question about that. I
became severely depressed and contemplated suicide on several
occasions," he says.

Toscano, who now runs the Beyond Ex-Gay support group, believes that,
far from being living proof of being a changed man, Alan Chambers is
simply promoting celibacy by stealth.

"You walk out on this cloud of ex-gay glory," says Toscano, "but you
end up intimate with no one, becoming more and more isolated until
it's just you alone on this little ex-gay island ... so many people
are hurting and living this half-life."

On my return from America, I asked Alan Chambers about his
organisation. Referring to himself as "a walking example of God's
redemption", he said: "Exodus exists so that individuals can live in
congruence with their own faith-based beliefs. There are many who do
not share our beliefs, nor are they in conflict living as homosexuals.
We respect this human right to self-determination. In the spirit of
tolerance and diversity, we ask only for the same as well."

He said he could not comment on allegations that SSA therapy could
cause psychological damage without knowing specific details about an
individual's personal experience. But he said: "Plenty of people start
with a process or a programme and then decide it isn't for them. I do
understand this to be a very impassioned and difficult subject. I am
truly heartbroken for individuals who continue to experience confusion
and sadness in their lives."

He pointed out that a 2007 US study indicated that sexual orientation
change was possible for some individuals going through religiously
mediated programmes such as Exodus, and did not cause psychological
harm. He said that "these conclusions directly contradict the claims
of critics ... that change in sexual orientation is impossible and
attempting to pursue this alternative is likely to cause depression,
anxiety or self-destructive behaviour".

This month, Save Me, a small-budget fictional film about an ex-gay
ministry, opens at cinemas in America. "I tried not to portray its
leaders as two-dimensional monsters," explains the director, Robert
Cary. "Many genuinely believe that they are helping people to live
good lives. But they believe that you're born with your religion and
choose your sexuality, when that is the opposite of the truth."

One ex-gay leader who has come to the same conclusion is Jeremy Marks.
A mild-mannered 56-year-old from Surrey, he pioneered one of the first
ex-gay networks in the UK. But after ten years, the attempted suicide
of a former resident led him to question the value of SSA therapy. He
found that, rather than helping people, it led to depression and
dysfunctional behaviour. "They stopped going to church, stopped going
to work," he recalls. "The only ones who appeared to be doing well
were those who accepted that they were gay and got on with their
lives." Marks is now openly gay and runs Courage, a support group for
gay Christians.

"Really, what the ex-gay movement is all about is salving the
conscience of the Christian leaders who don't like to be accused of
homophobia," he says. "That way they can say 'we don't hate gays -
look how we are welcoming them'."

Back in North Carolina, the mood is an uneasy mix of celebration and
trepidation. One man has decided that he will be celibate for one
month for each of the seven years he has spent "in the lifestyle".
Riccardo, the doctor, is more resigned: "I used to think marriage was
the ultimate goal but I've come to accept that I'll struggle with SSA
for the rest of my life."

At one last seminar, "Smooth Transitions: Life after the Conference",
Joe, a Latino man from Miami, speaks proudly of leaving his boyfriend
and changing his friends, his address, his job and his gym after
leaving his first conference.

"It's about doing what's uncomfortable," he tells the class,
describing how he forced himself to watch baseball with macho
sportsmen at parties, and to wear looser shorts when walking his
chihuahua.

A squeaky-voiced youth of no more than 17, who has been trembling
violently, shoots up his hand. He wants to know whether he should dump
his boyfriend.

"It's a no-brainer," he is told. "You should end the relationship. If
you don't do it now, it will only become harder later."

On the stage where Alan Chambers welcomed us, a final prayer is held.
And then the broken, the fixed, and everyone in between sings: "The
enemy has been defeated. Freedom. Freedom. Freedom."

Packing her suitcase, Michelle feels that she has found an answer. "To
focus on sex is missing the point," she says. "It's not about gay or
straight. It's about holiness and my relationship with Christ." She
wants to marry but admits that she may never be attracted to men.
"Then it means I've been called to singleness." And lifelong celibacy?
"I'm surrendering to God's way." And she leaves, ready to face a new
life in which love and sex are reduced to the sound of elevator music.

Homosexuality and the Church: views from the pulpit

The ex-gay movement has come out of the US evangelical revival, but it
has not caught the imagination in British religious circles to the
same extent. In the UK it has operated on the fringes of the religious
establishment, chiefly on the independent, charismatic wing of the
evangelical movement.

Some congregations in the Church of England do have a reputation as
places where gay young men and women can go for encouragement into
wedlock with members of the opposite sex. But with the increasing
acceptance in wider society of homosexuality, and the passing of the
Civil Partnership Act, more and more young people are baffled by the
churches' continuing difficulties in this area, as witnessed by the
strife in the Anglican Communion.

The ex-gay movement has never been officially sanctioned by the Roman
Catholic or the Anglican Church. While both seem reluctant to accept
that gay people might be born as they are - and thus be made in God's
image and therefore entitled to sexual fulfilment - they seem
strangely unprepared, at an official level at least, to call for gays
to "convert" to heterosexuality.

The Roman Catholic and Anglican Church hedge their positions on
homosexuality with reiterations of the wrongs of homophobia. But, for
both Churches, there can be no getting away from the biblical
teachings condemning gay behaviour. This means that they differentiate
between the "sinner" and the "sin", offering the hand of "forgiveness"
to the first, and condemnation of the second.

So the official catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that
"homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered" and that "homosexual
persons are called to chastity". And, in a document produced in 1991,
the Church of England bishops argued that sexual intercourse, as an
expression of faithful intimacy, "properly belongs within marriage
exclusively".

However, Anglicans were prepared to move farther in accepting gay
behaviour. The bishops also said, rather ambiguously: "The Church
should not reject those who conscientiously enter into intentionally
permanent same-sex relationships which they sincerely believe is God's
call to them ... Because of the distinctive nature of their calling,
clergy do not have the liberty to enter into sexual relationships
outside marriage ... Sexual orientation is not a bar to ordination in
the Church of England."

The Catholic Church condemns contraception as intrinsically bad but
few Catholics take any notice. If the churches are not careful, later
generations will take the same view of its teachings on homosexuality.

Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

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Hello.

I'm an undergraduate student studying social inquiry at UTS in Sydney,
Australia. I've been subscribed to this mailing list for a while,
although I haven't actually posted until now.

I'm posting now because I'm looking for people to take part in a
research project that I'm doing for my study. The project requires
that I conduct some qualitative research on a topic of my choosing.
I've chosen to research the perspective of former ex-gays on their
experiences with ex-gay institutions and ex-gay therapy. As a person
who identifies as bisexual, the issues surrounding ex-gay therapy have
been of some interest to me, and I would like a chance to further
explore the perspective of those who have now left ex-gay therapy
behind.

I'm looking for participants in the Sydney area who have attended what
could reasonably described as an "ex-gay institution" and have since
left. My understanding is that ex-gay therapy can be a traumatic
experience, which is why, for ethical reasons, I would prefer
participants who have stopped attending an ex-gay institution for long
enough to gain some emotional distance from their experiences. I'm
working on the assumption that being out for at least 1 year should be
sufficient, although I would welcome any correction from other people
on that score.

The research will consist of sitting down with me for an in-depth
interview that will last approximately 30-45 minutes, and which will
touch on issues of sexuality, religion and on ex-gay institutions and
ex-gay therapy. Participation in the study will be kept confidential,
and participants will be free to stop participating at any time
without needing to state a reason.

If you are interested and live in or near Sydney, Australia, please
contact me either on this e-mail address (nhendo@...) or on my
university e-mail address of neil.j.henderson@... to
organise an initial meeting where I can explain the research process
in more detail. Please feel free to contact either myself or my course
supervisor Kyunja Jung (e-mail: Kyungja.Jung@...) should you
have any further questions.

Sometimes people that matter slip under our radar. Edwin Cameron is
one such guy for me. Oh! i knew he existed. He's gay and a justice of
the South African Supreme Court. Australia's own gay High Court
justice, Michael Kirby has spoken of him, and the two men have
campaigned together for gay rights in India and possibly other places.

Cameron grew up as 'poor white'in the old christian, racist South
Africa and should be one of our heroes, but as i said, he had slipped
under my radar. Until today, when reading a Chinese government news
site article on discrimination against Aids sufferers, I see Cameron's
name.

Best news is that his autobiography, 'Witness to Aids' has been
translated into Chinese and will soon be available in China.

here's a couple of sites about Cameron and his book:

http://www.witnesstoaids.com/

http://bookreviewsouthafrica.blogspot.com/2006/01/witness-to-aids-edwin-cameron.\
html

and most of all, the Chinese news report that set me off (grin):

http://www.china.org.cn/features/aids/2008-10/30/content_16692097.htm


eddie