--- Reverend Schokk <revschok@...> wrote:
> > If one knew Hebrew it might - otherwise it will
> still be somone's best guess of what the word was
> [within context of the time].
> >
>
> A Strong's Concordance

I have been schlepping mine around [its about 20 lbs]
since the mid seventies, when it was given to me as a
present as I was planning on leaving for seminary...

Today the internet has much faster and less heavy
tools LOL

> and a Hebrew/English Lexicon are very  helpful.

Yes it is - within *today's* context of the word[s]...

What I was trying to say above, is that the context of
the times has MUCH to do with translation also - as do
idioms of the time.

Simple example : "Lets get together and shoot some
bull tonight" says an American freshman - what does
his Hindu classmate think it means ?

English is not my first language, and trust me -
idioms and slang are still difficult for me, even
after 50 years here!

George Lamsa grew up in an area which to this day
speaks the ancient Aramaic with the idioms of Jesus.
He translated the Bible from the Peshita and other
ancient Eastern texts in the 50ies. And I find it much
clearer than the KJV

One small example: Matt 5:29 "If thy right eye offend
thee pluck it out" ... sounds pretty bloody in today's
parlance - but back then it meant: " If you have a
habit of envying [someone], Stop it !

And bringing it back to the Kaballah; it was
originally an oral tradition, which went through many
generations as word of mouth, before it got written
down in the 13th Century as the Zohar [Book of
Splendor]- it wonders me that any of it is accurate!
>
> And BTW...  Hello, everyone!  Just joined the list.
>
> Reverend Schokk, F.'. C.'.

Blessings Rev

Olga





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so, in the system (psycho-cosmology) that the original poster wrote about,
the god EL (or AL) corresponds to the planet of Saturn. in the Golden Dawn
system, the godname EL is attributed to the Sephirah Chesed, and to the
planet Jupiter. i just cracked open Poke Runyon's "The Book of Solomon's
Magick" and on the OTA's "Phoenecian Tree of Life," EL (Ool) is attributed
to the Sephirah Chokmah, and thus the Zodiac. i guess that's what happens
when cultures start appropriating other culture's deities, they dont know
what to do with them and where to pigeonhole them :)

>> YHWH is not present in Genesis...YHVH came
>> into being via direct transmission to Moses as the
>> God of the Hebrew tribe.

Kaballistically speaking, it is the split, [big bang
in physics] of the "ONE" [Ain Soph] -
[undifferentiated light]- that brought YHWH into being
- from Sefirah Kether into Chokmah and Binah - the
male/female, and wisdom/understanding aspects of the
Ain Soph.

It was during this split, that the shekinah was
separated from "god" and "fell" to Malkuth
[kingdom/creation/manifestation]

Actually Jehova [Yod Hay Vau Hay] means "Lord" or
"chief" [god] - and came into being in Genesis 2:4.

By the time of Moses, God named himself I am that I
am.....  Exd 3:14 " And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT
I AM"


> With respects to the *godnames* in Genisis, there
> is El and Elohim. El perhaps denoting a name
borrowed > from summerian origins (creator god of the
sumerians) > and Elohim a masculine noun with a
feminine > plural(more generic name for god-desses).
Atleast > that is my understanding of it. Is this the
case?

Yes - 'Elohim' was a plurality of 'creator gods' -
see: Gen:1:26 "And God said, Let US make man in OUR
image, after OUR likeness ..." and more than likely
was fashioned after the Sumerian stories.

> Are there other *godnames* mentioned in Genesis?
Have > never really looked at it in the Hebrew form.

for anyone interested in the research,
http://www.blueletterbible.org/ is a wonderful tool -
and has the Hebrew words and their roots.


> > Shaitan

Intersting nick - ha'Satan was the adversary - the
dark, or shadow side side of 'god' .....

Peace

Olga


=====
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Greetings John,

>so, in the system (psycho-cosmology) that the original poster wrote about,
>the god EL (or AL) corresponds to the planet of Saturn. in the Golden Dawn
>system, the godname EL is attributed to the Sephirah Chesed, and to the
>planet Jupiter. i just cracked open Poke Runyon's "The Book of Solomon's
>Magick" and on the OTA's "Phoenecian Tree of Life," EL (Ool) is attributed
>to the Sephirah Chokmah, and thus the Zodiac. i guess that's what happens
>when cultures start appropriating other culture's deities, they dont know
>what to do with them and where to pigeonhole them.


Good point. The OTA also denotes both Baal and Astarte to the Goetic spirits
demonized by conquering culture. But this is somewhat a conveniance, in that
they represent archetypes of the collective unconscious; albeit old archetypes.
In Thelemic terms perhaps archetypes of the Aeon of Isis?


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On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Shaitan Daemonium wrote:

> Hi,
>
> >>Actually El was the supreme deity in the Canaanite Pantheon, and it
> is interesting to note that Yahweh took on the same titles as Baal,
> who was El's son, and the Storm God of the Canaanite pantheon.
> Actually An was the supreme deity of the Sumerian pantheon, with it's
> ruling god being Enlil.

so, in the system (psycho-cosmology) that the original poster wrote about,
the god EL (or AL) corresponds to the planet of Saturn. in the Golden Dawn
system, the godname EL is attributed to the Sephirah Chesed, and to the
planet Jupiter. i just cracked open Poke Runyon's "The Book of Solomon's
Magick" and on the OTA's "Phoenecian Tree of Life," EL (Ool) is attributed
to the Sephirah Chokmah, and thus the Zodiac. i guess that's what happens
when cultures start appropriating other culture's deities, they dont know
what to do with them and where to pigeonhole them :)

john (yes, this is my first post, hello).

Hi,

>>Actually El was the supreme deity in the Canaanite Pantheon, and it
is interesting to note that Yahweh took on the same titles as Baal,
who was El's son, and the Storm God of the Canaanite pantheon.
Actually An was the supreme deity of the Sumerian pantheon, with it's
ruling god being Enlil.

>>Blessings,RoseCrow

I knew I was in trouble..LOL..
So If Baal is corresponded to  YHVH.. Where is Astarte (Asherat?)?? Present in
Shekinah???

Umm, Heres a link to some computor aided Gematria.. was this posted already?
Jeesh there goes my short term memory!
http://www.mysticalnet.net/mysticalinternet/software/
good program. I somehow ended up getting it for a trial period of 36,000 days.







<<Read: In the name of thy Lord Who created man. Created man from clot. Read:
and thy Lord is the Most Bounteous Who teacheth man by the pen. Teacheth man
that which he knew not. Nay, but man is a rebel. Verily man thinks himself
independent. >> Quran: Surah-e-Alaq (Chapter: The Clot )

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--- In ExclusivelyKabbalah@y..., "Reverend Schokk" <revschok@i...>
wrote:
> Here's another concerning the names of God...  If I'm posting too
much, let me know.  I'm really excited about this group.
>
> Reverend Schokk, F.'. C.'.

You know I can't get enough of this stuff!! Keep it up!

Blessings,
RoseCrow

--- In ExclusivelyKabbalah@y..., "Shaitan Daemonium"
<shaitan666@s...> wrote:
> Greetings Rosecrow,
> Nice to see you as well as the good Rev. schok (sparky) here. :^)
>
> >
> >Also, YHWH is not present in Genesis...YHVH came into being via
> >direct transmission to Moses as the God of the Hebrew tribe.
> >
> With respects to the *godnames* in Genisis, there is El and Elohim.
El perhaps denoting a name borrowed from summerian origins (creator
god of the sumerians) and Elohim a masculine noun with a feminine
plural(more generic name for god-desses). Atleast that is my
understanding of it. Is this the case? Are there other *godnames*
mentioned in Genesis? Have never really looked at it in the Hebrew
form.
>
>
> Shaitan

Actually El was the supreme deity in the Canaanite Pantheon, and it
is interesting to note that Yahweh took on the same titles as Baal,
who was El's son, and the Storm God of the Canaanite pantheon.

Actually An was the supreme deity of the Sumerian pantheon, with it's
ruling god being Enlil.

Elohim is 'the gods'  the im suffix denoting a group, such as Ashim,
or Kerubim.

Blessings,
RoseCrow
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Free Email Service Provided By:
> The Satanic Network -> http://www.satannet.net

>Here's another concerning the names of God...  If I'm posting too much,
let me know....>

I, for one, am here to learn.  Please do continue to post, as this is
most interesting and helpful.


Rose under the mantle of The Mystical Rose

>Also, YHWH is not present in Genesis...YHVH came into being via
>direct transmission to Moses as the God of the Hebrew tribe.
>
With respects to the *godnames* in Genisis, there is El and Elohim. El perhaps denoting a name borrowed from summerian origins (creator god of the sumerians) and Elohim a masculine noun with a feminine plural(more generic name for god-desses). Atleast that is my understanding of it. Is this the case? Are there other *godnames* mentioned in Genesis? Have never really looked at it in the Hebrew form.

<---------- Begin Paste ----------->

 

The True Story of Eden

By Reverend Schokk

There’s probably not a person alive in this country that hasn’t heard the story. "In the beginning…" Genesis… Everyone knows who Adam and Eve were and how they were tempted by the serpent to eat of the forbidden fruit. Not everyone knows the true story though.

I’ve heard several variations of this story. Some introduce new characters such as Lilith, the supposed "first" wife of Adam. I have to admit that I’ve never really put much thought into the myth until recently. I’ve always wondered about certain misconceptions that seem to have ingrained themselves into our collective conscious. Things like how the serpent was Satan and how the forbidden fruit was an apple. Neither of these things are stated in the written story. Well, I’ve done some investigating and I felt that I should pass along what I’ve found. A little historical information is necessary…

Genesis… "In the beginning…" A direct translation from the Hebrew word Reshiyth (pronounced ray-sheeth) which comes from the same unused root word as Rosh which means "principal, head, ruler, highest." Something that you may or may not be aware of… the Hebrew language is unlike most modern languages in the fact that one Hebrew word represents an entire idea which could translate into English as an entire paragraph of information. A truly rich and wonderful language!

The Hebrew language began to die out around 500 B.C. and was replaced by Aramaic during the Jewish captivity in Babylon. During the time of Jesus, Hebrew was not used by the Jewish people and was considered a dead language. There were few Jewish priests that spoke the language and fewer still that could read or write it.

When the Jewish people were allowed to return to Palestine, two men, Esdras and Daniel, were the sole beings who still understood Hebrew. Esdras revised the first 5 books of the Bible, supposedly written by Moses, known as the Pentateuch. This revision was distributed to the synagogues but had to be interpreted by use of a series of books called the Targums. The Targums gave Aramaic translations so that the Hebrew language could eventually be revived. At the end of the 19^th century, the Zionist movement revived Hebrew as the official tongue of the state of Isreal.

Roughly 300 B.C… The Palestinian ruler, Ptolemy II, demanded that the Hebrew Scriptures be translated into Greek by a group of Hebrew mystics known as the Essenes. The Essenes were the only people alive during that time that knew the original Hebrew in which the Old Testament had been written. The Essenes were reluctant to share their secret writings with the "uninitiated" pagans who were holding them in captivity and disguised the mysteries written by Moses by using symbolism.

The story of Adam and Eve, the serpent, Adam’s rib, etc. first made it’s appearance in the Greek version of Genesis. It did not exist in the original Hebrew texts! I bet you didn’t know that, did you? It gets better…

The 70 rabbis that formed the Sanhedrin, the High Council of the Priesthood, were not familiar with the Hebrew language and accepted this translation as accurate by penning their signatures to it. This translation became known as the Septuagint and has since been accepted worldwide as the true and accurate Greek translation of the Old Testament.

Saint Jerome spent 20 years of his life translating the Greek version into Latin which is now known as the Vulgate and considered to be the founding scriptures of the Roman Catholic Church in 400 A.D. Roughly 100 years later the Old Testament books were combined with the books of the New Testament and have pretty much been accepted without question by the Christian world.

One of the first English translations was by John Wycliff but the best translation was by William Tynsdale and was later adapted by order of King James thus resulting in the most popular English version of the Holy Bible.

So there you have it. The true story of Eden is that there is no story of Eden… or is there? The true story, if it exists, must be hidden away somewhere by the descendants of the Essenes. Then again, it could be hidden in plain sight, only to be found by those who are willing to look beyond the literal translations and start working through the symbolism. Let’s look at some of the symbolism…

There were two trees in the garden of Eden that were different than the rest. One was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil from which Adam and Eve were commanded not to partake. The other was the Tree of Life. Why is it that we don’t hear much about the Tree of Life in the Bible?

We know what happened in the story when Adam and Eve were tempted by the serpent and partook of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. What were those Essene mystics trying to tell us? Maybe that true paradise and communion with the Creator can be found by partaking of the Tree of Life?

Let’s see… Tree of Life? Hmmm… Where have I heard that term before? Oh yes! I remember. The Kabbalah!

Greetings Rosecrow,
Nice to see you as well as the good Rev. schok (sparky) here. :^)

>
>Also, YHWH is not present in Genesis...YHVH came into being via
>direct transmission to Moses as the God of the Hebrew tribe.
>
With respects to the *godnames* in Genisis, there is El and Elohim. El perhaps
denoting a name borrowed from summerian origins (creator god of the sumerians)
and Elohim a masculine noun with a feminine plural(more generic name for
god-desses). Atleast that is my understanding of it. Is this the case? Are there
other *godnames* mentioned in Genesis? Have never really looked at it in the
Hebrew form.


Shaitan

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Actually, it is recognized in the Jewish tradition that these 2 words
have the same number, and it is an inner mystery.  As well, there
were many influences, especially religious and philosophical, on the
creation of the OT texts, around 600 - 500 BC.  Personally, I believe
that they are 2 sides of the same coin.  Man was already separate
from God in Eden.  His/her salvation was dependent on realizing that
separateness.

Still, this is just determinations from my own studies.  Kabbalah is
a life-long discipline.  I have recently started studying religions
that existed prior to the Hebrew religion.

Also, YHWH is not present in Genesis...YHVH came into being via
direct transmission to Moses as the God of the Hebrew tribe.

I guess I will close by introducing myself.  I have been studying
Kabbalah for about 20 years, having first been introduced to it's
Western version, and receiving a Middle Pillar Initiation in 1989.
For years, I have been focusing on the traditional kabbalah, and am
amazed at how much there is to learn.  It never stops!

Blessings,
RoseCrow



--- In ExclusivelyKabbalah@y..., jgisa4031@y... wrote:
> Greetings
> Im new to the group and also new to Kabbalah.  So please excuse my
> ignorance.  In reference to the Messiah being the Serpent I have to
> disagree.  In the account as YHWH is cursing the Serpent He speaks
of
> the Messiah in Gen. 3:15  "I will put enmity between thee (SERPENT)
> and the woman (EVE), thy(SERPENT) seed and her(EVE)seed(MESSIAH)
and
> you (SERPENT) shall bruise His(MESSIAH) heel and HE(MESSIAH) shall
> bruise thy (SERPENT) head."  Thank you
> Blessings
> L.V.X.
> --- In ExclusivelyKabbalah@y..., "Paul Joseph Rovelli" <pjr93@h...>
> wrote:
> > Hi Pendragon,
> > 93
> > I'm going suspect that whomever said that the Messiah will
overcome
> the
> > Serpent was using his or her own personal prejudice.  The Messiah
> IS the
> > Serpent...having saved humanity from ignorance.  Remember, the
> primordial
> > humans ate from the Tree-of-Knowledge.
> > 93/93
> > pj
> >
> >
> > >From: "Penndragon" <penn.dragon@i...>
> > >Reply-To: ExclusivelyKabbalah@y...
> > >To: <ExclusivelyKabbalah@y...>
> > >Subject: [ExclusivelyKabbalah] gematria Q
> > >Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:32:33 +1000
> > >
> > >MM Guys
> > >
> > >I'm kinda curious about something withing the Kabbalistic
> framework here in
> > >the use of the gematria.
> > >
> > >I've noticed for example that the words for (in Hebrew of
course)
> God,
> > >Good, and Holy have the same value, and hence are used to show
> that God is
> > >good, and also holy. Now this is where my curiousity kicks in.
> Likewise,
> > >the Hebrew words for serpent and Messiah have the same value as
> each other;
> > >and yet rather than being one and the same, it is used to show
> that the
> > >Messiah will overcome the serpent. Anyone understand why the
> different
> > >approach to the equivalencies?
> > >
> > >MP
> > >Penn
> >
> >
> > http://www.a-m-h-r.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

> If one knew Hebrew it might - otherwise it will still
> be somone's best guess of what the word was [within
> context of the time].
>

A Strong's Concordance and a Hebrew/English Lexicon are very
helpful.  Both can be purchased at large booksellers.  The Strong's
Concordance will be in the religious section and the Hebrew/English
Lexicon in the languages section.

And BTW...  Hello, everyone!  Just joined the list.

Reverend Schokk, F.'. C.'.
http://www.ipa.net/~deakon

Greetings
Im new to the group and also new to Kabbalah.  So please excuse my
ignorance.  In reference to the Messiah being the Serpent I have to
disagree.  In the account as YHWH is cursing the Serpent He speaks of
the Messiah in Gen. 3:15  "I will put enmity between thee (SERPENT)
and the woman (EVE), thy(SERPENT) seed and her(EVE)seed(MESSIAH) and
you (SERPENT) shall bruise His(MESSIAH) heel and HE(MESSIAH) shall
bruise thy (SERPENT) head."  Thank you
Blessings
L.V.X.
--- In ExclusivelyKabbalah@y..., "Paul Joseph Rovelli" <pjr93@h...>
wrote:
> Hi Pendragon,
> 93
> I'm going suspect that whomever said that the Messiah will overcome
the
> Serpent was using his or her own personal prejudice.  The Messiah
IS the
> Serpent...having saved humanity from ignorance.  Remember, the
primordial
> humans ate from the Tree-of-Knowledge.
> 93/93
> pj
>
>
> >From: "Penndragon" <penn.dragon@i...>
> >Reply-To: ExclusivelyKabbalah@y...
> >To: <ExclusivelyKabbalah@y...>
> >Subject: [ExclusivelyKabbalah] gematria Q
> >Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:32:33 +1000
> >
> >MM Guys
> >
> >I'm kinda curious about something withing the Kabbalistic
framework here in
> >the use of the gematria.
> >
> >I've noticed for example that the words for (in Hebrew of course)
God,
> >Good, and Holy have the same value, and hence are used to show
that God is
> >good, and also holy. Now this is where my curiousity kicks in.
Likewise,
> >the Hebrew words for serpent and Messiah have the same value as
each other;
> >and yet rather than being one and the same, it is used to show
that the
> >Messiah will overcome the serpent. Anyone understand why the
different
> >approach to the equivalencies?
> >
> >MP
> >Penn
>
>
> http://www.a-m-h-r.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

MM Olga



>
> --- Penndragon <penn.dragon@...> wrote:
> > MM Guys
> >
> > Just wondering here, does anyone besides myself
> > think it would be advantageous to be able to see the
> > words talked about in their original forms?
>
> If one knew Hebrew it might - otherwise it will still
> be somone's best guess of what the word was [within
> context of the time].
>
> Olga

I understand what you mean here. I myself am learning to read/write the
biblical Hebrew and Greek languages via a few links on the net. I can't yet
flently read them, but for me the actual words still help considerably

MP
Penn

MM Jan



>
> > --- Penndragon <penn.dragon@...> wrote:
> > > MM Guys
> > >
> > > Just wondering here, does anyone besides
> > myself
> > > think it would be advantageous to be able to
> > see the
> > > words talked about in their original forms?
>
> I think it would be nice.  Jan :-)
>

I thought it might be a good idea as well. Can upload Greek and Hebrew fonts
to the fils area if wanted. That way all could use the same fonts to view
them

MP
Penn

> --- Penndragon <penn.dragon@...> wrote:
> > MM Guys
> >
> > Just wondering here, does anyone besides
> myself
> > think it would be advantageous to be able to
> see the
> > words talked about in their original forms?

I think it would be nice.  Jan :-)
_________________________________________________


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--- Penndragon <penn.dragon@...> wrote:
> MM Guys
>
> Just wondering here, does anyone besides myself
> think it would be advantageous to be able to see the
> words talked about in their original forms?

If one knew Hebrew it might - otherwise it will still
be somone's best guess of what the word was [within
context of the time].

Olga
>
> MP
> Penn
>


=====
On the path of infinite possibilities, when you see a fork in the road, take it
Visit us on the web: http://www.lightmatrix.org/  Yahoo IM: Olga_3700 ICQ
73332993
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--- Paul Joseph Rovelli <pjr93@...>
wrote:
> Hi Pendragon,
> 93
> I'm going suspect that whomever said that the
> Messiah will overcome the
> Serpent was using his or her own personal
> prejudice.  The Messiah IS the
> Serpent...having saved humanity from ignorance.
>  Remember, the primordial
> humans ate from the Tree-of-Knowledge.
> 93/93
> pj


Yes, that is my understanding also.  Jan
>
> >From: "Penndragon" <penn.dragon@...>
> >Reply-To: ExclusivelyKabbalah@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <ExclusivelyKabbalah@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: [ExclusivelyKabbalah] gematria Q
> >Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:32:33 +1000
> >
> >MM Guys
> >
> >I'm kinda curious about something withing the
> Kabbalistic framework here in
> >the use of the gematria.
> >
> >I've noticed for example that the words for
> (in Hebrew of course) God,
> >Good, and Holy have the same value, and hence
> are used to show that God is
> >good, and also holy. Now this is where my
> curiousity kicks in. Likewise,
> >the Hebrew words for serpent and Messiah have
> the same value as each other;
> >and yet rather than being one and the same, it
> is used to show that the
> >Messiah will overcome the serpent. Anyone
> understand why the different
> >approach to the equivalencies?
> >
> >MP
> >Penn
>
>
> http://www.a-m-h-r.org
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

MM Paul



> Hi Pendragon,
> 93
> I'm going suspect that whomever said that the Messiah will overcome the
> Serpent was using his or her own personal prejudice.  The Messiah IS the
> Serpent...having saved humanity from ignorance.  Remember, the primordial
> humans ate from the Tree-of-Knowledge.
> 93/93
> pj
>

That's precisely the way I see it as well. I suspect what I put forward in
my post as a Q was a certain Christian Kabbalist view to reconcile their
particular view of the Messiah as Good and the serpent as Evil.

It always struck me as odd that they would change the rules.

MP
Penn

> >From: "Penndragon" <penn.dragon@...>
> >Reply-To: ExclusivelyKabbalah@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <ExclusivelyKabbalah@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: [ExclusivelyKabbalah] gematria Q
> >Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:32:33 +1000
> >
> >MM Guys
> >
> >I'm kinda curious about something withing the Kabbalistic framework here
in
> >the use of the gematria.
> >
> >I've noticed for example that the words for (in Hebrew of course) God,
> >Good, and Holy have the same value, and hence are used to show that God
is
> >good, and also holy. Now this is where my curiousity kicks in. Likewise,
> >the Hebrew words for serpent and Messiah have the same value as each
other;
> >and yet rather than being one and the same, it is used to show that the
> >Messiah will overcome the serpent. Anyone understand why the different
> >approach to the equivalencies?
> >
> >MP
> >Penn
>
>
> http://www.a-m-h-r.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ExclusivelyKabbalah-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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>
>

Hi Olga,
93
When terms have the same gematric value, it's not that they are
interchangeable...but that they each add meaning to the other.
93/93
pj


>From: olga alexandrovna <olga_3700@...>
>Reply-To: ExclusivelyKabbalah@yahoogroups.com
>To: ExclusivelyKabbalah@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [ExclusivelyKabbalah] gematria Q
>Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:24:35 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hi pj
>
>Yes - when gematria is the same value, the meaning is
>interchangeable.
>
>So 'Nachach' and 'Messiah' have same value, and are
>interchangeable in meaning.
>
>Somewhere - if I can find it I have an e-mail lecture
>on this very subject from a prominent Kaballist. I
>will send the essence of what he said - IF - I can
>find it.
>
>Olga
>
>--- Paul Joseph Rovelli <pjr93@...> wrote:
> > Hi Pendragon,
> > 93
> > I'm going suspect that whomever said that the
> > Messiah will overcome the
> > Serpent was using his or her own personal prejudice.
> >  The Messiah IS the
> > Serpent...having saved humanity from ignorance.
> > Remember, the primordial
> > humans ate from the Tree-of-Knowledge.
> > 93/93
> > pj
> >
> >
> > >From: "Penndragon" <penn.dragon@...>
> > >Reply-To: ExclusivelyKabbalah@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: <ExclusivelyKabbalah@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: [ExclusivelyKabbalah] gematria Q
> > >Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:32:33 +1000
> > >
> > >MM Guys
> > >
> > >I'm kinda curious about something withing the
> > Kabbalistic framework here in
> > >the use of the gematria.
> > >
> > >I've noticed for example that the words for (in
> > Hebrew of course) God,
> > >Good, and Holy have the same value, and hence are
> > used to show that God is
> > >good, and also holy. Now this is where my
> > curiousity kicks in. Likewise,
> > >the Hebrew words for serpent and Messiah have the
> > same value as each other;
> > >and yet rather than being one and the same, it is
> > used to show that the
> > >Messiah will overcome the serpent. Anyone
> > understand why the different
> > >approach to the equivalencies?
> > >
> > >MP
> > >Penn
> >
>
>
>=====
>On the path of infinite possibilities, when you see a fork in the road,
>take it
>Visit us on the web: http://www.lightmatrix.org/  Yahoo IM: Olga_3700 ICQ
>73332993
>Between stimulus and response lies man's ultimate power - the freedom to
>choose.
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


http://www.a-m-h-r.org

_________________________________________________________________
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Hi pj

Yes - when gematria is the same value, the meaning is
interchangeable.

So 'Nachach' and 'Messiah' have same value, and are
interchangeable in meaning.

Somewhere - if I can find it I have an e-mail lecture
on this very subject from a prominent Kaballist. I
will send the essence of what he said - IF - I can
find it.

Olga

--- Paul Joseph Rovelli <pjr93@...> wrote:
> Hi Pendragon,
> 93
> I'm going suspect that whomever said that the
> Messiah will overcome the
> Serpent was using his or her own personal prejudice.
>  The Messiah IS the
> Serpent...having saved humanity from ignorance.
> Remember, the primordial
> humans ate from the Tree-of-Knowledge.
> 93/93
> pj
>
>
> >From: "Penndragon" <penn.dragon@...>
> >Reply-To: ExclusivelyKabbalah@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <ExclusivelyKabbalah@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: [ExclusivelyKabbalah] gematria Q
> >Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:32:33 +1000
> >
> >MM Guys
> >
> >I'm kinda curious about something withing the
> Kabbalistic framework here in
> >the use of the gematria.
> >
> >I've noticed for example that the words for (in
> Hebrew of course) God,
> >Good, and Holy have the same value, and hence are
> used to show that God is
> >good, and also holy. Now this is where my
> curiousity kicks in. Likewise,
> >the Hebrew words for serpent and Messiah have the
> same value as each other;
> >and yet rather than being one and the same, it is
> used to show that the
> >Messiah will overcome the serpent. Anyone
> understand why the different
> >approach to the equivalencies?
> >
> >MP
> >Penn
>


=====
On the path of infinite possibilities, when you see a fork in the road, take it
Visit us on the web: http://www.lightmatrix.org/  Yahoo IM: Olga_3700 ICQ
73332993
Between stimulus and response lies man's ultimate power - the freedom to choose.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Hi Pendragon,
93
I'm going suspect that whomever said that the Messiah will overcome the
Serpent was using his or her own personal prejudice.  The Messiah IS the
Serpent...having saved humanity from ignorance.  Remember, the primordial
humans ate from the Tree-of-Knowledge.
93/93
pj


>From: "Penndragon" <penn.dragon@...>
>Reply-To: ExclusivelyKabbalah@yahoogroups.com
>To: <ExclusivelyKabbalah@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [ExclusivelyKabbalah] gematria Q
>Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:32:33 +1000
>
>MM Guys
>
>I'm kinda curious about something withing the Kabbalistic framework here in
>the use of the gematria.
>
>I've noticed for example that the words for (in Hebrew of course) God,
>Good, and Holy have the same value, and hence are used to show that God is
>good, and also holy. Now this is where my curiousity kicks in. Likewise,
>the Hebrew words for serpent and Messiah have the same value as each other;
>and yet rather than being one and the same, it is used to show that the
>Messiah will overcome the serpent. Anyone understand why the different
>approach to the equivalencies?
>
>MP
>Penn


http://www.a-m-h-r.org

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Salám Mazohir


> Greetings fellow Qabalists!  I am excited to be part of this group.
> I long and look for the correspondences of our wonderfully revered
> Tree of Life in all that I see and do.  I am most interested in
> pathworking on the Tree as of late.  I feel that the endeavour to
> walk on the Tree is an exhilirating and intriguing experience for the
> soul and shows no bounds to what the magician may learn from such
> adventures.  If anyone has any advice on the nature of pathworking or
> personal general correspondences upon the Tree, please send them my
> way, for I am always looking to ponder upon the reflections from my
> cohorts.

I tend to see pathworking as somewhat individualistic, but using the
framework of ones chosen path to build upon. Many tend to see it as using
only one path to build from as well, I however can see that many paths can
be used.

> I am also very interested about the nature of Gematria, Temurah and
> Notarikon.  I mainly use the diagrams, words, numbers, etc. derived
> from the likes of such for personal use, but recently, I have found
> it becoming useful for others as well.
> I am well versed in astrology, sigils, Tarot, Ceremonial Magick,
> organic gardening, alchemical process, creating magickal implements,
> and fine dining as well as some of the mundane teachings of college.
> I hope to be of any service to anyone of the group and I look forward
> to reading and responding to the posts.
>

As do I

MP
Penn

Greetings fellow Qabalists!  I am excited to be part of this group.
I long and look for the correspondences of our wonderfully revered
Tree of Life in all that I see and do.  I am most interested in
pathworking on the Tree as of late.  I feel that the endeavour to
walk on the Tree is an exhilirating and intriguing experience for the
soul and shows no bounds to what the magician may learn from such
adventures.  If anyone has any advice on the nature of pathworking or
personal general correspondences upon the Tree, please send them my
way, for I am always looking to ponder upon the reflections from my
cohorts.
I am also very interested about the nature of Gematria, Temurah and
Notarikon.  I mainly use the diagrams, words, numbers, etc. derived
from the likes of such for personal use, but recently, I have found
it becoming useful for others as well.
I am well versed in astrology, sigils, Tarot, Ceremonial Magick,
organic gardening, alchemical process, creating magickal implements,
and fine dining as well as some of the mundane teachings of college.
I hope to be of any service to anyone of the group and I look forward
to reading and responding to the posts.

Shalom,

~ Mazohir ~

"There is no way of telling people that they are walking around shing
like the sun."
                                 ~ anonymous

Greetings fellow seekers on the Path

I have been a student of the esoteric for many a year, and am deeply
interested in Kabbalah

Blessings

Olga



--- In ExclusivelyKabbalah@y..., "Penndragon" <penn.dragon@i...>
wrote:
> MM Guys
>
> Just thought I'd throw in a quick intro
> I tend to use the handle of Penndragon (Penn being the shorthand)
and am a student of the various Mysteries. So naturally, Kabbalah is
one of my fields of interest.
>
> MP
> Penn
>
> "Man must be a lover of the light, no matter from what dayspring it
may
> appear. He must be a lover of the rose, no matter in what soil it
may be
> growing. He must be a seeker of the truth, no matter from what
source it
> comes. Attachment to the lantern is not loving the light."
>
> -- From the Sacred Writings of the Baha'i Faith