Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.

http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/

Very excellent article on klemp's attempts to vilify natural anger in eckists,
those who question and have natural doubts. Often, they are called "hateful" by
defensive dogmatic eckists, and shamed in one form or another, usually in a
passive/aggressive way, but also in ways that are very directly abusive. The
klempster certainly acts like a tyrant and defines eckankar as a hierarchical
religion (big "C" Cult").

Also, let's not forget that the repression or denial of normal angry feelings
often leads to depression and self-hate, anger turned inward (rage). It is not
in the least a Healthy way to live one's life. For me relief and a way out of
that madness, insanity, is to cultivate self-compassion which then has positive
affects on relationships, developing empathy and self-actualization, being OK
with who you are at whatever stage of life you may be dealing with. Life is hard
enough without some SELF-ABSORBED, ARROGANT, GRANDIOSE IDIOT LIVING ECK MASTER
FRAUD, telling you about yourself and giving God awful advise. Pity the
self-delusonal eckist/eckankarist, who is so afraid to leave the false path and
find freedom from tyrants. But don't take any of their guff either.

Non ; )


--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
<jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their
lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain
washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
>  
> Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the
thought! 
>  
> Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry
eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course
that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't
allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get
new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become
self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
>  
> Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones
who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself
for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify
obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you
don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive
yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
>  
> My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for
yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
>  
> The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I
think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we
all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it
shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the
external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us
to get out of insane eckankar. 
>  
> You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it
and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable
of handling it.
>  
> With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please
be kind to yourself. 
>
> --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
> Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
> To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
people.
>
> http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
>

I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging
the leader.

Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and
a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of
course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling
of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical,
improbable and absurd notions.

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
<jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their
lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain
washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
>  
> Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the
thought! 
>  
> Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry
eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course
that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't
allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get
new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become
self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
>  
> Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones
who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself
for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify
obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you
don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive
yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
>  
> My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for
yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
>  
> The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I
think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we
all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it
shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the
external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us
to get out of insane eckankar. 
>  
> You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it
and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable
of handling it.
>  
> With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please
be kind to yourself. 
>
> --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
> Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
> To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
people.
>
> http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
>

Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had since its
conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left over the years and
how many members there are now?
It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into this
organization anymore.

Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar for
membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or does the fact
that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that as legal possibility?

For my few cents worth, whether anger or fear has an opposite is interesting.
Lack of anger may be apathy, but it also may be denial and delusion. Repression
of anger may lead to depression and then even fear of all emotions, hence the
eck indifference called Love.

Then again, anger and fear are very closely tied together biologically in the
fight/flight response. If this is shut down too much, you just become mush mush,
an eck blob borg, or a hypocritical abuser of those lower in initiations. Such
is the Way of a False hierarchical RELIGION/CULT eckankar.

I've been seeing ADS in the Newspaper for eckankar "Worship Services" in the
section with all the other Churches, competing and quite a few more New Age
"Secret" type religions/Cults. Man, take your pick. eckankar is just worse, in
my book because of the godman living eck master crap, which they don't advertise
up front and that is just dishonest.

Non ; )

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
<jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
>
> I guess that what I meant was that once a person recognizes the fear that he
has allowed to over come his senses, a natural reaction is to then get angry. 
I know I felt very angry for the first few years after I left. 
>
> --- On Tue, 11/13/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
> Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: An article that mentions klemp
> To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012, 8:56 PM
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging
the leader.
>
> Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness.
Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
>
> --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
<jepfeiffer@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any
eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all
how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in
their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack
of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly
brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
> >  
> > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the
thought! 
> >  
> > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or
the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore,
angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. 
 Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons
you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to
lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how
eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You
either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
> >  
> > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in
itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you
justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and
if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to
deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
> >  
> > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify
for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
> >  
> > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed
change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something
normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when
anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a
change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is
what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
> >  
> > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify
it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and
capable of handling it.
> >  
> > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please
be kind to yourself. 
> >
> > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@>
> > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
> > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
people.
> >
> > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
> >
>

A.R.E. repost

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/alt.religion.eckankar/W\
le6bykppIc

***

Some of my findings, so far, about Paul Twitchell's book, The Key to Eckankar.

The Key to Eckankar is about 43 pages of text. Similarities (near or exact)
between text for The Key to Eckankar and writings of Neville Goddard appear on,
or about pp. 5-6; the writings of Talbot Mundy, p. 6; Neville Goddard pp. 6-7;
Thomas Troward, pp. 8-9; Talbot Mundy, p. 14; Neville Goddard, p. 17; Joel
Goldsmith, p. 19; Talbot Mundy, pp. 23-25, 27; Scientology Dynamics, p. 27;
Neville Goddard, p. 28; Scientology Axioms, p. 37; Joel Goldsmith, pp. 40-42.

This is a list of the books and links.

The Power of Awareness, Neville Goddard (1952)

http://ia600202.us.archive.org/11/items/ThePowerOfAwareness/Neville_ThePowerOfAw\
areness.pdf

Old Ugly Face, Talbot Mundy (1940)

http://arthursclassicnovels.com/mundy/ugfa10.html

Lectures on Mental Science, Thomas Troward (1909)

http://www.archive.org/stream/edinburghlecture00trow#page/n7/mode/2up

Scientology, Hubbard (1950s?)

http://learn.scientology.org/wis4_12.htm

Practicing the Presence, Joel S. Goldsmith (1958)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/82916572/Practicing-the-Presence-of-God-Joel-S-Goldsmi\
th

The Key to Eckankar ("1968")

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0KObtCQpPKbZDhiNjhkZmQtNjI5Yy00ZTZlLWJjZDYtYjY3\
Yzg1Y2I4Mzhj/edit?pli=1

Today I finished illustrating some similarities (near and exact) between Paul
Twitchell (1968) and Joel Goldsmith (1958). The length includes about fourteen
paragraphs from The Key to Eckankar and I'm not quite sure how to begin sharing
them here. Maybe I can do it paragraph by paragraph.

I will begin with quoting The Key to Eckankar (in which case Rebazar Tarzs is
reportedly the speaker; so the text mostly appears in quotes), followed by the
approximate page numbers (for TKTE). After that I will illustrate corresponding
quotes by Goldsmith, as is.

TKTE - p. 19:

"We only have to prove this in one direction and we shall have it proved in
every direction. The whole secret lies in the word heart, or what we call  
consciousness. An intellectual knowledge of the fact that God is All is of no
value. The only value any truth has is in the degree of its realization. Truth
fully realized via ECKANKAR is spiritual consciousness. If we are conscious of
the presence of the Lord, if we are conscious of the activity of God, then so we
will see all of life through that understanding."

PTP - Goldsmith (2nd paragraph, p. 19)

   The whole secret lies in the word "consciousness". An intellectual knowledge
of the fact that God is all is of no value. The only value any truth has is in
the degree of its realization. Truth realized is spiritual consciousness. If we
are conscious of the presence of the Lord, if we are conscious of the activity
of God, then so it is unto us.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/82916572/Practicing-the-Presence-of-God-Joel-S-Goldsmi\
th

TKTE - p. 40

"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in
consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to
spiritualize thought. The more truth we read and hear, the more truth is active
in our consciousness. We learn to abide in the world by putting truth into
ourselves. This is the first step on the way to God."

PTP - p. 20

    Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in
consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to
spiritualize thought. The more truth that we read and hear, the more active is
truth in our consciousness. Thus we learn to abide in the Word. This is the
first step on the Way.

TKTE - p. 40

"The second step cannot be taken unless the first step has been mastered, that
is, knowing the letter of truth. All the years we spend in reading truth,
attending services, lectures, and classes are fruitful in leading us to that
point where inspiration flows from within our own being. This inspiration,
however, usually comes only after a thorough grounding in the letter of truth."

PTP - p. 21

The second step, which leads to a state of consciousness where we are receptive
and responsive to the still small voice, cannot be taken, however, unless the
first step has been mastered, that is, knowing the letter of truth. All the
years that a person has spent in reading truth, hearing truth, thinking truth,
attending church services, lectures, or classes are fruitful in leading him to
that point where inspiration flows from within his own being. This inspiration,
however, usually comes only after a thorough grounding in the letter of truth.

TKTE - p. 40

    "Yaubl Sacabi told me long ago, 'Let my spirit dwell in you. And so shall the
SUGMAD be exalted so that you will bear the harvest of good deeds.'
    "To live in this truth, to abide in the Word, is to bear the harvest of all
things in the richest manner: that is, to live harmoniously in the spiritual
senses. But if we forget to live in the Word, to abide in It, and let It live in
us, we become as the branch of a tree that is cut off and withers away.
    "How can we live in the Word if we do not know It? We must know the Truth. We
must learn what the correct letter of truth is. Let us have a principle with
which to work, and let us stand on this principle, until the moment comes when
we feel that spiritual awareness within us is realized. Then we shall know that
we have attained the spirit of truth, the consciousness of truth, which is the
Word of the SUGMAD and is power. Anyone with a sufficient desire for a
realization of God can achieve that realization - the grace of God will
guarantee it.

PTP - p. 21

Jesus tells us to let "my words abide in you. ... Herein is my Father glorified,
that ye bear much fruit." To live in that truth, to abide in that Word, is to
bear fruit richly, that is, to live harmoniously, spiritual lives. But if we
forget to live in the Word, to abide in it, and let it abide in us, we become as
branches that are cut off and wither. How can we abide in this Word if we do not
know it? We must know the truth. We must learn that the correct letter of truth
is. Let us have a specific principle with which to work and let us stand on that
principle, until the moment comes when we feel that spiritual awareness within
us, which is realization. Then we shall know that we have attained the spirit of
truth, the consciouness of truth, which is the Word of God and is power. Anyone
with a sufficient desire for a realization of God will guarantee it.

[Keep in mind Joel S. Goldsmith's book was called Practicing The Presence and
that another phrase he used (and a book by that same name) was called The
Infinite Way.]

TKTE - p. 41

    "It is possible to know all the truth found in the letter of truth and still
be the branch that withers away, unless we live so completely in the Word and
let this Word live in us so that the Very Spirit dwells in us-the Spirit of God
in man. No man is devoid of It, but most of us are as unaware of It as we are of
the blood coursing through our veins. God is with us, God's presence fills all
space, the Spirit of God dwells in us. But how many have felt that presence? It
is talked about, prayed for, theorized over, and sermonized about; but It is not
experienced! It is the conscious awareness, the actual feeling or realization of
the Presence, which is necessary."

PTP - pp. 21-22

    It is possible to know all the truth found in the letter of truth and still
be a branch that withereth, until we so abide in the Word and let this Word
abide in us that the very Spirit of God.  There is a Spirit in man. There
actually is a Spirit - the Spirit of God in man. No man is devoid of it, but
most of us are as unaware of it as we are of the blood coursing through our
bodies. God is with us. God's presence fills all space; the Spirit of God dwells
in us. But how many people have felt that Presence? It is talked about, prayed
about, theorized about, and sermonized about; but It is not experienced. It is
the conscious awareness, the actual feeling or realization of the Presence which
is necessary.

TKTE - p. 41

    "In most religious teachings, we are told that God is everywhere, but this is
not true in the sense of prevalence. If the Spirit of God were everywhere, all
persons would be free, healthy, wealthy, independent, joyous, and harmonious.
The Spirit of God is present only where It is Realized. This is why we are all
trying to become channels for Spirit."

PTP - p. 22

   In most religious teachings, we are told that the Spirit God is everywhere,
but that is not true. If the Spirit of the Lord were everywhere, everybody would
be free, healthy, wealthy, independent, joyous, and harmonious. No. the Spirit
of the Lord is present only where it is realized.

TKTE - p. 41

    "Unless we feel the actual presence of God, then as far as we are concerned,
we do not have the realization of this Spirit. It is like electricity (which is
everywhere, just as the Spirit of God is), but electricity is of little use or
value to anyone unless it is connected in some way for a particular use. So it
is with the Spirit of God. It is everywhere in an absolute, spiritual sense, but
It is only effective in our experience to the extent to which It is realized."

PTP - p. 22-23

    Unless we feel the actual presence of God, then, as far as we are concerned,
we do not have this Spirit. Again, it is a case of rolling up the window shades,
or it is like saying that electricity is everywhere. That is true. Electricity
is everywhere just as the Spirit of God is everywhere. Electricity, however,
will be of no value to us, unless it is connected in some way for our particular
use. So it is with this Spirit of God. It is everywhere, in an absolute,
spiritual sense, but It is only effective in our experience to the extent to
which It is realized.

TKTE - pp. 41-42

    "Anyone following the path of ECKANKAR cannot go through a day satisfied that
he has read some truth in the morning or that he is going to hear some truth in
the afternoon or evening. There must be a conscious realization of truth going
on all the time. This does not mean he is going to neglect his human duties and
activities. It means that he is going to train himself to have some area in his
consciousness always active in truth. Whether we look at the forms of nature as
trees, flowers, or oceans, or whether we are meeting people, we find some
measure of God in each experience. We train ourselves to behold the presence and
activity of God in everything around us and live within the Word."

PTP - p. 23

   The student of spiritual wisdom cannot go through his day, satisfied that he
has read some truth in the morning, or that he is going to hear some truth in
the afternoon or evening. There must be a conscious activity of truth going on
all the time. That does not mean that we neglect our human duties and
activities; it means that we train himself to have some area of consciousness
always active in truth. Whether we look out at forms of nature such as trees,
flowers, or oceans, or whether we are meeting people, we find some measure of
God in each experience. We train ourselves to behold the presence and activity
of God in everything around us and to abide in the Word.

TKTE - p. 42

    "So it is important to learn all that we can about the correct letter of
truth, to understand every principle and then to practice these principles until
we go from an intellectual knowledge to an inner awareness of them. We build our
foundation on specific principles. Some of these principles are found in all
scriptures, but mainly in the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, the Way of the Eternal."

PTP - pp. 23-24

    It is important to learn all that we can about the correct letter of truth,
to understand every principle, and then to practice these principles until we go
from an intellectual knowledge to an inner awareness of them. We build our
foundation on specific principles. Some of these principles are found in
scripture: Christian, Hebrew, and Oriental. Some of them are not found in any
written form, but nevertheless, they are known to all the mystics of the world.
The further we go in this work, the more necessary it is that we know every one
of these principles. They are the foundation of our understanding and they must
become so much a part of us that when we are faced with a problem, we do not
have to think consciously of any of them.

TKTE - p. 41

    "The deeper we go into this work, the more necessary it is that we know every
one of these principles. They are the foundation of our understanding, and they
must become so much a part of us that when we are faced with a problem we do not
have to consciously think of them.
    "Someday I will give these principles to you for publication. An
understanding of the principles of spiritual living - that is, a knowledge of
the correct letter of truth - is necessary. That is the foundation upon which we
build, so that we understand where we are going and why, and what our
relationship is to God. It is necessary that we know these things so that we do
not stumble in a blind faith that at some time or another may desert us. We need
to know the correct letter of truth so that we do not find ourselves in a state
of mental chaos, relying on one thing today and another tomorrow, never coming
to an understanding of God - the nature and character of God, the nature of
God's law, and the nature of God's being."

PTP - p. 25

    An understanding of the principles of spiritual living, that is, a knowledge
of the correct letter of truth, is necessary. That is the foundation upon which
we build, so that we understand where we are going and why, and what our
relationship to God and our fellowman is. It is necessary that we know these
things so that we do not stumble into a blind faith that at some time or another
may desert us. We need to know the correct letter of truth in order that we do
not find ourselves in a state of mental chaos, relying on one thing today and on
another tomorrow, never coming to an understanding of that which is. A spiritual
life cannot be built without an understanding of God - the nature and character
of God, the nature of God's law, and the nature of God's being.

TKTE - p. 42

    "It is possible for anyone to change the trend of his life, not by hearing or
reading truth, but by making it an active part of his consciousness in daily
experience, until it becomes a habit every moment of the day, instead of an
occasional thought. Let God operate in the consciousness morning, noon, and
night until the actual awareness comes gradually. Then we make the transition
from being hearers of the Word to being doers of the Word. Then we shall be
living in the world and shall gather in the harvest of Souls."

PTP - p. 26

    It is possible for anyone to change the trend of his life, not by hearing or
reading truth, but by making it an active part of his consciousness in daily
experience, until it becomes a habit every moment of the day, instead of an
occasional thought. Let these principles operate in the consciousness morning,
noon, and night, until gradually the actual awareness comes. Then we make the
transition from being hearers of the Word to being doers of the Word. Then we
shall be abiding in the Word and shall bear fruit richly. [... .]

***

OK that's about the best I can do right now for the similarities between
Twitchell and Goldsmith that I've found so far. I have them all in a different
format, and where the paragraphs are not broken up, that might be possible to
share in the future. I also have examples from the other authors listed on this
thread. Bear in mind I am still researching Paul Twitchell's book The Key to
Eckankar and may not have found all similarities (near and exact) to date when
the book (or what Rebazar Tarzs reportedly said) is compared with other authors
and their books. Most of them copyrighted.

There is also Harold Klemp's Introduction for the 2003 version of TKTE that I
want to append to this thread. Along with what he had to say about Rebazar
Tarzs.

***

Ref# 41391720-9790-The Key to Eckankar vs. Practicing The Presence (Joel S.
Goldsmith)

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@...>
wrote:
>
> A.R.E. repost
>
>
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/alt.religion.eckankar/W\
le6bykppIc
>
> ***
>
> Some of my findings, so far, about Paul Twitchell's book, The Key to Eckankar.
>
> The Key to Eckankar is about 43 pages of text. Similarities (near or exact)
between text for The Key to Eckankar and writings of Neville Goddard appear on,
or about pp. 5-6; the writings of Talbot Mundy, p. 6; Neville Goddard pp. 6-7;
Thomas Troward, pp. 8-9; Talbot Mundy, p. 14; Neville Goddard, p. 17; Joel
Goldsmith, p. 19; Talbot Mundy, pp. 23-25, 27; Scientology Dynamics, p. 27;
Neville Goddard, p. 28; Scientology Axioms, p. 37; Joel Goldsmith, pp. 40-42.
>
> This is a list of the books and links.
>
> The Power of Awareness, Neville Goddard (1952)
>
>
http://ia600202.us.archive.org/11/items/ThePowerOfAwareness/Neville_ThePowerOfAw\
areness.pdf
>
> Old Ugly Face, Talbot Mundy (1940)
>
> http://arthursclassicnovels.com/mundy/ugfa10.html
>
> Lectures on Mental Science, Thomas Troward (1909)
>
> http://www.archive.org/stream/edinburghlecture00trow#page/n7/mode/2up
>
> Scientology, Hubbard (1950s?)
>
> http://learn.scientology.org/wis4_12.htm
>
> Practicing the Presence, Joel S. Goldsmith (1958)
>
>
http://www.scribd.com/doc/82916572/Practicing-the-Presence-of-God-Joel-S-Goldsmi\
th
>
> The Key to Eckankar ("1968")
>
>
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0KObtCQpPKbZDhiNjhkZmQtNjI5Yy00ZTZlLWJjZDYtYjY3\
Yzg1Y2I4Mzhj/edit?pli=1
>
> Today I finished illustrating some similarities (near and exact) between Paul
Twitchell (1968) and Joel Goldsmith (1958). The length includes about fourteen
paragraphs from The Key to Eckankar and I'm not quite sure how to begin sharing
them here. Maybe I can do it paragraph by paragraph.
>
> I will begin with quoting The Key to Eckankar (in which case Rebazar Tarzs is
reportedly the speaker; so the text mostly appears in quotes), followed by the
approximate page numbers (for TKTE). After that I will illustrate corresponding
quotes by Goldsmith, as is.
>
> TKTE - p. 19:
>
> "We only have to prove this in one direction and we shall have it proved in
every direction. The whole secret lies in the word heart, or what we call  
consciousness. An intellectual knowledge of the fact that God is All is of no
value. The only value any truth has is in the degree of its realization. Truth
fully realized via ECKANKAR is spiritual consciousness. If we are conscious of
the presence of the Lord, if we are conscious of the activity of God, then so we
will see all of life through that understanding."
>
> PTP - Goldsmith (2nd paragraph, p. 19)
>
>   The whole secret lies in the word "consciousness". An intellectual knowledge
of the fact that God is all is of no value. The only value any truth has is in
the degree of its realization. Truth realized is spiritual consciousness. If we
are conscious of the presence of the Lord, if we are conscious of the activity
of God, then so it is unto us.
>
>
http://www.scribd.com/doc/82916572/Practicing-the-Presence-of-God-Joel-S-Goldsmi\
th
>
> TKTE - p. 40
>
> "Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in
consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to
spiritualize thought. The more truth we read and hear, the more truth is active
in our consciousness. We learn to abide in the world by putting truth into
ourselves. This is the first step on the way to God."
>
> PTP - p. 20
>
>    Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in
consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to
spiritualize thought. The more truth that we read and hear, the more active is
truth in our consciousness. Thus we learn to abide in the Word. This is the
first step on the Way.
>
> TKTE - p. 40
>
> "The second step cannot be taken unless the first step has been mastered, that
is, knowing the letter of truth. All the years we spend in reading truth,
attending services, lectures, and classes are fruitful in leading us to that
point where inspiration flows from within our own being. This inspiration,
however, usually comes only after a thorough grounding in the letter of truth."
>
> PTP - p. 21
>
> The second step, which leads to a state of consciousness where we are
receptive and responsive to the still small voice, cannot be taken, however,
unless the first step has been mastered, that is, knowing the letter of truth.
All the years that a person has spent in reading truth, hearing truth, thinking
truth, attending church services, lectures, or classes are fruitful in leading
him to that point where inspiration flows from within his own being. This
inspiration, however, usually comes only after a thorough grounding in the
letter of truth.
>
> TKTE - p. 40
>
>    "Yaubl Sacabi told me long ago, 'Let my spirit dwell in you. And so shall
the SUGMAD be exalted so that you will bear the harvest of good deeds.'
>    "To live in this truth, to abide in the Word, is to bear the harvest of all
things in the richest manner: that is, to live harmoniously in the spiritual
senses. But if we forget to live in the Word, to abide in It, and let It live in
us, we become as the branch of a tree that is cut off and withers away.
>    "How can we live in the Word if we do not know It? We must know the Truth.
We must learn what the correct letter of truth is. Let us have a principle with
which to work, and let us stand on this principle, until the moment comes when
we feel that spiritual awareness within us is realized. Then we shall know that
we have attained the spirit of truth, the consciousness of truth, which is the
Word of the SUGMAD and is power. Anyone with a sufficient desire for a
realization of God can achieve that realization - the grace of God will
guarantee it.
>
> PTP - p. 21
>
> Jesus tells us to let "my words abide in you. ... Herein is my Father
glorified, that ye bear much fruit." To live in that truth, to abide in that
Word, is to bear fruit richly, that is, to live harmoniously, spiritual lives.
But if we forget to live in the Word, to abide in it, and let it abide in us, we
become as branches that are cut off and wither. How can we abide in this Word if
we do not know it? We must know the truth. We must learn that the correct letter
of truth is. Let us have a specific principle with which to work and let us
stand on that principle, until the moment comes when we feel that spiritual
awareness within us, which is realization. Then we shall know that we have
attained the spirit of truth, the consciouness of truth, which is the Word of
God and is power. Anyone with a sufficient desire for a realization of God will
guarantee it.
>
> [Keep in mind Joel S. Goldsmith's book was called Practicing The Presence and
that another phrase he used (and a book by that same name) was called The
Infinite Way.]
>
> TKTE - p. 41
>
>    "It is possible to know all the truth found in the letter of truth and
still be the branch that withers away, unless we live so completely in the Word
and let this Word live in us so that the Very Spirit dwells in us-the Spirit of
God in man. No man is devoid of It, but most of us are as unaware of It as we
are of the blood coursing through our veins. God is with us, God's presence
fills all space, the Spirit of God dwells in us. But how many have felt that
presence? It is talked about, prayed for, theorized over, and sermonized about;
but It is not experienced! It is the conscious awareness, the actual feeling or
realization of the Presence, which is necessary."
>
> PTP - pp. 21-22
>
>    It is possible to know all the truth found in the letter of truth and still
be a branch that withereth, until we so abide in the Word and let this Word
abide in us that the very Spirit of God.  There is a Spirit in man. There
actually is a Spirit - the Spirit of God in man. No man is devoid of it, but
most of us are as unaware of it as we are of the blood coursing through our
bodies. God is with us. God's presence fills all space; the Spirit of God dwells
in us. But how many people have felt that Presence? It is talked about, prayed
about, theorized about, and sermonized about; but It is not experienced. It is
the conscious awareness, the actual feeling or realization of the Presence which
is necessary.
>
> TKTE - p. 41
>
>    "In most religious teachings, we are told that God is everywhere, but this
is not true in the sense of prevalence. If the Spirit of God were everywhere,
all persons would be free, healthy, wealthy, independent, joyous, and
harmonious. The Spirit of God is present only where It is Realized. This is why
we are all trying to become channels for Spirit."
>
> PTP - p. 22
>
>   In most religious teachings, we are told that the Spirit God is everywhere,
but that is not true. If the Spirit of the Lord were everywhere, everybody would
be free, healthy, wealthy, independent, joyous, and harmonious. No. the Spirit
of the Lord is present only where it is realized.
>
> TKTE - p. 41
>
>    "Unless we feel the actual presence of God, then as far as we are
concerned, we do not have the realization of this Spirit. It is like electricity
(which is everywhere, just as the Spirit of God is), but electricity is of
little use or value to anyone unless it is connected in some way for a
particular use. So it is with the Spirit of God. It is everywhere in an
absolute, spiritual sense, but It is only effective in our experience to the
extent to which It is realized."
>
> PTP - p. 22-23
>
>    Unless we feel the actual presence of God, then, as far as we are
concerned, we do not have this Spirit. Again, it is a case of rolling up the
window shades, or it is like saying that electricity is everywhere. That is
true. Electricity is everywhere just as the Spirit of God is everywhere.
Electricity, however, will be of no value to us, unless it is connected in some
way for our particular use. So it is with this Spirit of God. It is everywhere,
in an absolute, spiritual sense, but It is only effective in our experience to
the extent to which It is realized.
>
> TKTE - pp. 41-42
>
>    "Anyone following the path of ECKANKAR cannot go through a day satisfied
that he has read some truth in the morning or that he is going to hear some
truth in the afternoon or evening. There must be a conscious realization of
truth going on all the time. This does not mean he is going to neglect his human
duties and activities. It means that he is going to train himself to have some
area in his consciousness always active in truth. Whether we look at the forms
of nature as trees, flowers, or oceans, or whether we are meeting people, we
find some measure of God in each experience. We train ourselves to behold the
presence and activity of God in everything around us and live within the Word."
>
> PTP - p. 23
>
>   The student of spiritual wisdom cannot go through his day, satisfied that he
has read some truth in the morning, or that he is going to hear some truth in
the afternoon or evening. There must be a conscious activity of truth going on
all the time. That does not mean that we neglect our human duties and
activities; it means that we train himself to have some area of consciousness
always active in truth. Whether we look out at forms of nature such as trees,
flowers, or oceans, or whether we are meeting people, we find some measure of
God in each experience. We train ourselves to behold the presence and activity
of God in everything around us and to abide in the Word.
>
> TKTE - p. 42
>
>    "So it is important to learn all that we can about the correct letter of
truth, to understand every principle and then to practice these principles until
we go from an intellectual knowledge to an inner awareness of them. We build our
foundation on specific principles. Some of these principles are found in all
scriptures, but mainly in the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, the Way of the Eternal."
>
> PTP - pp. 23-24
>
>    It is important to learn all that we can about the correct letter of truth,
to understand every principle, and then to practice these principles until we go
from an intellectual knowledge to an inner awareness of them. We build our
foundation on specific principles. Some of these principles are found in
scripture: Christian, Hebrew, and Oriental. Some of them are not found in any
written form, but nevertheless, they are known to all the mystics of the world.
The further we go in this work, the more necessary it is that we know every one
of these principles. They are the foundation of our understanding and they must
become so much a part of us that when we are faced with a problem, we do not
have to think consciously of any of them.
>
> TKTE - p. 41
>
>    "The deeper we go into this work, the more necessary it is that we know
every one of these principles. They are the foundation of our understanding, and
they must become so much a part of us that when we are faced with a problem we
do not have to consciously think of them.
>    "Someday I will give these principles to you for publication. An
understanding of the principles of spiritual living - that is, a knowledge of
the correct letter of truth - is necessary. That is the foundation upon which we
build, so that we understand where we are going and why, and what our
relationship is to God. It is necessary that we know these things so that we do
not stumble in a blind faith that at some time or another may desert us. We need
to know the correct letter of truth so that we do not find ourselves in a state
of mental chaos, relying on one thing today and another tomorrow, never coming
to an understanding of God - the nature and character of God, the nature of
God's law, and the nature of God's being."
>
> PTP - p. 25
>
>    An understanding of the principles of spiritual living, that is, a
knowledge of the correct letter of truth, is necessary. That is the foundation
upon which we build, so that we understand where we are going and why, and what
our relationship to God and our fellowman is. It is necessary that we know these
things so that we do not stumble into a blind faith that at some time or another
may desert us. We need to know the correct letter of truth in order that we do
not find ourselves in a state of mental chaos, relying on one thing today and on
another tomorrow, never coming to an understanding of that which is. A spiritual
life cannot be built without an understanding of God - the nature and character
of God, the nature of God's law, and the nature of God's being.
>
> TKTE - p. 42
>
>    "It is possible for anyone to change the trend of his life, not by hearing
or reading truth, but by making it an active part of his consciousness in daily
experience, until it becomes a habit every moment of the day, instead of an
occasional thought. Let God operate in the consciousness morning, noon, and
night until the actual awareness comes gradually. Then we make the transition
from being hearers of the Word to being doers of the Word. Then we shall be
living in the world and shall gather in the harvest of Souls."
>
> PTP - p. 26
>
>    It is possible for anyone to change the trend of his life, not by hearing
or reading truth, but by making it an active part of his consciousness in daily
experience, until it becomes a habit every moment of the day, instead of an
occasional thought. Let these principles operate in the consciousness morning,
noon, and night, until gradually the actual awareness comes. Then we make the
transition from being hearers of the Word to being doers of the Word. Then we
shall be abiding in the Word and shall bear fruit richly. [... .]
>
> ***
>
> OK that's about the best I can do right now for the similarities between
Twitchell and Goldsmith that I've found so far. I have them all in a different
format, and where the paragraphs are not broken up, that might be possible to
share in the future. I also have examples from the other authors listed on this
thread. Bear in mind I am still researching Paul Twitchell's book The Key to
Eckankar and may not have found all similarities (near and exact) to date when
the book (or what Rebazar Tarzs reportedly said) is compared with other authors
and their books. Most of them copyrighted.
>
> There is also Harold Klemp's Introduction for the 2003 version of TKTE that I
want to append to this thread. Along with what he had to say about Rebazar
Tarzs.
>
> ***
>
> Ref# 41391720-9790-The Key to Eckankar vs. Practicing The Presence (Joel S.
Goldsmith)
>

Typo correction. I had "train himself" in Goldsmith's version where the correct
words were "train ourselves". There may be other typos I missed ... and so I
recommend comparing the two texts where accuracy might be in doubt.

TKTE - pp. 41-42

"Anyone following the path of ECKANKAR cannot go through a day satisfied that he
has read some truth in the morning or that he is going to hear some truth in the
afternoon or evening. There must be a conscious realization of truth going on
all the time. This does not mean he is going to neglect his human duties and
activities. It means that he is going to train himself to have some area in his
consciousness always active in truth. Whether we look at the forms of nature as
trees, flowers, or oceans, or whether we are meeting people, we find some
measure of God in each experience. We train ourselves to behold the presence and
activity of God in everything around us and live within the Word."

PTP - p. 23

The student of spiritual wisdom cannot go through his day, satisfied that he has
read some truth in the morning, or that he is going to hear some truth in the
afternoon or evening. There must be a conscious activity of truth going on all
the time. That does not mean that we neglect our human duties and activities; it
means that we train ourselves to have some area of consciousness always active
in truth. Whether we look out at forms of nature such as trees,
flowers, or oceans, or whether we are meeting people, we find some measure of
God in each experience. We train ourselves to behold the presence and activity
of God in everything around us and to abide in the Word.

Dear Prom and all,

Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was " The Lost
Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know the author who is a fine
enough chap but I think Stefan is still an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the
fence', so to speak. Many H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the
Klempster will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become the
next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will probably continue with
their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true spiritual path and not just the cult it
is. Its tough being an individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences
one encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating a long
time freind is that they really have their doubts about this crap's truth as
well. Besides after being a none E-cultist for a while, I have formed some
significant friendships that really don't give a s**t what my religious views
are. The road is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check out Jesus the
Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!

Zephrendhun

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
<prometheus_973@...> wrote:
>
> Gnothe Seauton i.e. prometheus wrote:
> Below is a description of this book.
>

Hello Z and All,
Yes, it is my understanding
that he joined the E-cult
in 1971.

[sorry for the reposts]

Was "The Lost Slipper
of Soul" printed by
Eckankar?

BTW-It seems that the
"Kip" character is the
alter ego of the author.
So, perhaps, HK isn't
all that impressive
of a "Master/Mahanta"
for this H.I., and I'm
thinking that he no
longer buys into Twit's
plagiarisms and fiction.

IMO, Based upon the
story line, many of us
former long-time EK
leaders could have
written a similar book.
And, one could easily
substitute "Truth Seeker"
for "Karma Seeker," and
"ECKankar" for "League."

FYI: I Googled his
Karma-Seeker website
where he gives "Card
Readings" via phone.
So, why would a person
still be an H.I. If he
does Card Readings?

Here's some info on the
book from Amazon.


BOOK DESCRIPTION:

"What is the true test of spirituality?
Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
teaching? Or is it having the courage
to act on one's deepest convictions,
even in the face of disapproval and
sanction?

This is the question that confronts
Kip Morgan.

Kip is a karma seeker—an individual
committed to testing himself by means
of his own choices. For such people,
who are engaged in an experiment
with unknown forces, there is no way
to prove that they are fit to discover
what they seek except by doing it.

As a young man, Kip joins the League,
one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
which involve cultivating inner experiences
through contemplation, dreams, and out-
of-body experiences.

The high point of his experience comes
with his initiation into the League's inner
circle, a transcendent event that significantly
alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
however, before he discovers how fragile
this experience is, and how difficult it is
to hold on to his new state of consciousness.

Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
beyond the confines of the League.

Eventually, he comes to question the
group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
path.

As he becomes less reliant on the League
and its members for support and guidance,
he is torn between his personal vision of
truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
puts him on a collision course with the League
President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.

The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
spiritual path—its highs and lows, its rewards
and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
embark on such a path are tested in the areas
of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
their spiritual strength, all so that they may
eventually become active participants in their
own destiny." [end]



"zephrendhun" wrote:
>
> Dear Prom and all,
>
> Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was " The Lost
Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know the author who is a fine
enough chap but I think Stefan is still an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the
fence', so to speak. Many H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the
Klempster will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become the
next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will probably continue with
their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true spiritual path and not just the cult it
is. Its tough being an individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences
one encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating a long
time freind is that they really have their doubts about this crap's truth as
well. Besides after being a none E-cultist for a while, I have formed some
significant friendships that really don't give a s**t what my religious views
are. The road is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check out Jesus the
Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
>
> Zephrendhun

So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers?  Or don't you have
a name for it yet?

So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members.  Are you afraid
to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock?  And wander
for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon?  Why not? You've
got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people.  I doubt very much if you
"get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me.  Two qualities
which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
especially those who've been in it for many years.

"a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality"   ???????

I think not.


Sharon






--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
<prometheus_973@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Z and All,
> Yes, it is my understanding
> that he joined the E-cult
> in 1971.
>
> [sorry for the reposts]
>
> Was "The Lost Slipper
> of Soul" printed by
> Eckankar?
>
> BTW-It seems that the
> "Kip" character is the
> alter ego of the author.
> So, perhaps, HK isn't
> all that impressive
> of a "Master/Mahanta"
> for this H.I., and I'm
> thinking that he no
> longer buys into Twit's
> plagiarisms and fiction.
>
> IMO, Based upon the
> story line, many of us
> former long-time EK
> leaders could have
> written a similar book.
> And, one could easily
> substitute "Truth Seeker"
> for "Karma Seeker," and
> "ECKankar" for "League."
>
> FYI: I Googled his
> Karma-Seeker website
> where he gives "Card
> Readings" via phone.
> So, why would a person
> still be an H.I. If he
> does Card Readings?
>
> Here's some info on the
> book from Amazon.
>
>
> BOOK DESCRIPTION:
>
> "What is the true test of spirituality?
> Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
> teaching? Or is it having the courage
> to act on one's deepest convictions,
> even in the face of disapproval and
> sanction?
>
> This is the question that confronts
> Kip Morgan.
>
> Kip is a karma seeker—an individual
> committed to testing himself by means
> of his own choices. For such people,
> who are engaged in an experiment
> with unknown forces, there is no way
> to prove that they are fit to discover
> what they seek except by doing it.
>
> As a young man, Kip joins the League,
> one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
> groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
> He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
> which involve cultivating inner experiences
> through contemplation, dreams, and out-
> of-body experiences.
>
> The high point of his experience comes
> with his initiation into the League's inner
> circle, a transcendent event that significantly
> alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
> however, before he discovers how fragile
> this experience is, and how difficult it is
> to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
>
> Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
> beyond the confines of the League.
>
> Eventually, he comes to question the
> group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
> it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
> path.
>
> As he becomes less reliant on the League
> and its members for support and guidance,
> he is torn between his personal vision of
> truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
> puts him on a collision course with the League
> President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
>
> The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
> to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
> reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
> spiritual path—its highs and lows, its rewards
> and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
> embark on such a path are tested in the areas
> of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
> their spiritual strength, all so that they may
> eventually become active participants in their
> own destiny." [end]
>
>
>
> "zephrendhun" wrote:
> >
> > Dear Prom and all,
> >
> > Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was " The Lost
> Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know the author who is a
fine
> enough chap but I think Stefan is still an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on
the
> fence', so to speak. Many H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the
> Klempster will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become the
> next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will probably continue
with
> their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true spiritual path and not just the cult
it
> is. Its tough being an individual and losing all of the friends and
acquantences
> one encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating a long
> time freind is that they really have their doubts about this crap's truth as
> well. Besides after being a none E-cultist for a while, I have formed some
> significant friendships that really don't give a s**t what my religious views
> are. The road is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
> delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check out Jesus the
> Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
> >
> > Zephrendhun
>

Hello Sharon and All,
S.M. sent me a message
and wanted to have his
name removed so that
he couldn't be traced,
but mentioning the book's
title doesn't require
much sleuthing in order
to discover the author's
real name (Google and
discover his Karma-Seeker
site... and he's on FB too!).

Anyway, I removed one
of his posts and was trying
to edit his name out of
another but I must
have done something
wrong and his entire
post was removed.

Did he send you something
too? Maybe he's fishing
for customers because
the EK pond has been
fished out?

BTW- Someone asked to
be able to join ESA and
said they had nice things
to say about Jerry Mulvin.
I approved their membership
out of curiosity, but they
will be monitored until
I can determine if their
status should be changed.

It's funny that Stefan does
"Card Reading" via phone,
yet, claims it's "not psychic."
Apparently the spiel is that
the technique he uses is
"spiritual" or maybe involves
"Quantum Physics." It kind
of reminded of the TV show
The Mentalist where Patrick
Jane states that the psychic
doesn't exist and that selling
it is just a con/scam and
that all he actually does
to 'know things' is to "pay
attention."

I didn't check to see that
Stefan had mentioned E-cult
in his links. For someone
who has the educational
credentials that he has it
makes one wonder about
his inability to connect-
the-dots and cover his
tracks. Being an H.I. for
a long period of time
either makes one more
skeptical or more delusional
via denial.

Of course, one could wonder
about the same in regards to
Klemp. Except, he's in it for
the Prestige, Money, and Power.

ECKists should ask: Why isn't
the ALL KNOWING Mahanta
Aware of his wayward H.I.s?
Otherwise HK would do something
about the problem like he did
with others right? Maybe Klemp
is only "aware" when someone
informs him via a snail-mail
letter like Ford did.

The real reason for Klemp's
inattention to what his H.I.'s
are doing is that he's a fake
prophet and is in it for profit!

But, what's going on with
HK's Secret RESA Police?
Why hasn't this guy been
ferreted out, detained,
questioned, suspended
from Satsang duties and
reported to the ESC? Local
H.I.s via Internet or 'phone
tree' need to be warned
as well! Who's the RESA
now for Massachusetts?
Stefan is in Boston right?

Prometheus

"Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
a name for it yet?

So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
"get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
especially those who've been in it for many years.

"a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????

I think not.


Sharon


prometheus wrote:
>
> Hello Z and All,
> Yes, it is my understanding
> that he joined the E-cult
> in 1971.
>
> [sorry for the reposts]
>
> Was "The Lost Slipper
> of Soul" printed by
> Eckankar?
>
> BTW-It seems that the
> "Kip" character is the
> alter ego of the author.
> So, perhaps, HK isn't
> all that impressive
> of a "Master/Mahanta"
> for this H.I., and I'm
> thinking that he no
> longer buys into Twit's
> plagiarisms and fiction.
>
> IMO, Based upon the
> story line, many of us
> former long-time EK
> leaders could have
> written a similar book.
> And, one could easily
> substitute "Truth Seeker"
> for "Karma Seeker," and
> "ECKankar" for "League."
>
> FYI: I Googled his
> Karma-Seeker website
> where he gives "Card
> Readings" via phone.
> So, why would a person
> still be an H.I. If he
> does Card Readings?
>
> Here's some info on the
> book from Amazon.
>
>
> BOOK DESCRIPTION:
>
> "What is the true test of spirituality?
> Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
> teaching? Or is it having the courage
> to act on one's deepest convictions,
> even in the face of disapproval and
> sanction?
>
> This is the question that confronts
> Kip Morgan.
>
> Kip is a karma seeker—an individual
> committed to testing himself by means
> of his own choices. For such people,
> who are engaged in an experiment
> with unknown forces, there is no way
> to prove that they are fit to discover
> what they seek except by doing it.
>
> As a young man, Kip joins the League,
> one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
> groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
> He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
> which involve cultivating inner experiences
> through contemplation, dreams, and out-
> of-body experiences.
>
> The high point of his experience comes
> with his initiation into the League's inner
> circle, a transcendent event that significantly
> alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
> however, before he discovers how fragile
> this experience is, and how difficult it is
> to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
>
> Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
> beyond the confines of the League.
>
> Eventually, he comes to question the
> group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
> it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
> path.
>
> As he becomes less reliant on the League
> and its members for support and guidance,
> he is torn between his personal vision of
> truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
> puts him on a collision course with the League
> President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
>
> The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
> to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
> reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
> spiritual path—its highs and lows, its rewards
> and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
> embark on such a path are tested in the areas
> of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
> their spiritual strength, all so that they may
> eventually become active participants in their
> own destiny." [end]
>
>
>
> "zephrendhun" wrote:
> >
> > Dear Prom and all,
> >
Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was
"The Lost Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know
the author who is a fine enough chap but I think Stefan is still
an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the fence', so to speak. Many
H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the Klempster
will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become
the next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will
probably continue with their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true
spiritual path and not just the cult it is. Its tough being an
individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences one
encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating
a long time freind is that they really have their doubts about
this crap's truth as well. Besides after being a none E-cultist
for a while, I have formed some significant friendships that
really don't give a s**t what my religious views are. The road
is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check
out Jesus the Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
> >
> > Zephrendhun

From: prometheus_973

To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 3:27 PM

Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"

 

Hello Sharon and All,
S.M. sent me a message
and wanted to have his
name removed so that
he couldn't be traced,
but mentioning the book's
title doesn't require
much sleuthing in order
to discover the author's
real name (Google and
discover his Karma-Seeker
site... and he's on FB too!).

Anyway, I removed one
of his posts and was trying
to edit his name out of
another but I must
have done something
wrong and his entire
post was removed.

Did he send you something
too? Maybe he's fishing
for customers because
the EK pond has been
fished out?

BTW- Someone asked to
be able to join ESA and
said they had nice things
to say about Jerry Mulvin.
I approved their membership
out of curiosity, but they
will be monitored until
I can determine if their
status should be changed.

It's funny that Stefan does
"Card Reading" via phone,
yet, claims it's "not psychic."
Apparently the spiel is that
the technique he uses is
"spiritual" or maybe involves
"Quantum Physics." It kind
of reminded of the TV show
The Mentalist where Patrick
Jane states that the psychic
doesn't exist and that selling
it is just a con/scam and
that all he actually does
to 'know things' is to "pay
attention."

I didn't check to see that
Stefan had mentioned E-cult
in his links. For someone
who has the educational
credentials that he has it
makes one wonder about
his inability to connect-
the-dots and cover his
tracks. Being an H.I. for
a long period of time
either makes one more
skeptical or more delusional
via denial.

Of course, one could wonder
about the same in regards to
Klemp. Except, he's in it for
the Prestige, Money, and Power.

ECKists should ask: Why isn't
the ALL KNOWING Mahanta
Aware of his wayward H.I.s?
Otherwise HK would do something
about the problem like he did
with others right? Maybe Klemp
is only "aware" when someone
informs him via a snail-mail
letter like Ford did.

The real reason for Klemp's
inattention to what his H.I.'s
are doing is that he's a fake
prophet and is in it for profit!

But, what's going on with
HK's Secret RESA Police?
Why hasn't this guy been
ferreted out, detained,
questioned, suspended
from Satsang duties and
reported to the ESC? Local
H.I.s via Internet or 'phone
tree' need to be warned
as well! Who's the RESA
now for Massachusetts?
Stefan is in Boston right?

Prometheus

"Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
a name for it yet?

So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
"get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
especially those who've been in it for many years.

"a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????

I think not.

Sharon

prometheus wrote:
>
> Hello Z and All,
> Yes, it is my understanding
> that he joined the E-cult
> in 1971.
>
> [sorry for the reposts]
>
> Was "The Lost Slipper
> of Soul" printed by
> Eckankar?
>
> BTW-It seems that the
> "Kip" character is the
> alter ego of the author.
> So, perhaps, HK isn't
> all that impressive
> of a "Master/Mahanta"
> for this H.I., and I'm
> thinking that he no
> longer buys into Twit's
> plagiarisms and fiction.
>
> IMO, Based upon the
> story line, many of us
> former long-time EK
> leaders could have
> written a similar book.
> And, one could easily
> substitute "Truth Seeker"
> for "Karma Seeker," and
> "ECKankar" for "League."
>
> FYI: I Googled his
> Karma-Seeker website
> where he gives "Card
> Readings" via phone.
> So, why would a person
> still be an H.I. If he
> does Card Readings?
>
> Here's some info on the
> book from Amazon.
>
>
> BOOK DESCRIPTION:
>
> "What is the true test of spirituality?
> Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
> teaching? Or is it having the courage
> to act on one's deepest convictions,
> even in the face of disapproval and
> sanction?
>
> This is the question that confronts
> Kip Morgan.
>
> Kip is a karma seeker—an individual
> committed to testing himself by means
> of his own choices. For such people,
> who are engaged in an experiment
> with unknown forces, there is no way
> to prove that they are fit to discover
> what they seek except by doing it.
>
> As a young man, Kip joins the League,
> one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
> groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
> He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
> which involve cultivating inner experiences
> through contemplation, dreams, and out-
> of-body experiences.
>
> The high point of his experience comes
> with his initiation into the League's inner
> circle, a transcendent event that significantly
> alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
> however, before he discovers how fragile
> this experience is, and how difficult it is
> to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
>
> Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
> beyond the confines of the League.
>
> Eventually, he comes to question the
> group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
> it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
> path.
>
> As he becomes less reliant on the League
> and its members for support and guidance,
> he is torn between his personal vision of
> truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
> puts him on a collision course with the League
> President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
>
> The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
> to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
> reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
> spiritual path—its highs and lows, its rewards
> and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
> embark on such a path are tested in the areas
> of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
> their spiritual strength, all so that they may
> eventually become active participants in their
> own destiny." [end]
>
>
>
> "zephrendhun" wrote:
> >
> > Dear Prom and all,
> >
Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was
"The Lost Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know
the author who is a fine enough chap but I think Stefan is still
an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the fence', so to speak. Many
H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the Klempster
will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become
the next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will
probably continue with their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true
spiritual path and not just the cult it is. Its tough being an
individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences one
encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating
a long time freind is that they really have their doubts about
this crap's truth as well. Besides after being a none E-cultist
for a while, I have formed some significant friendships that
really don't give a s**t what my religious views are. The road
is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check
out Jesus the Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
> >
> > Zephrendhun

Hello Stefan and All,
I guess that the problem
that people are having
is Why is it that you still
want to remain an H.I.
when you don't see HK
as the Mahanta nor see
Eckankar as the end all
to spiritual truth.

As far as the mumbo-
jumbo with the "card
reading' if it's not psychic,
which doesn't exist, then,
it's a con/scam. Or,
maybe you've bought
into the delusion as
much as you've, previously,
bought into Eckankar. I'm
sure that astrology works
just as well.

Have you ever read about
the Amazing Randy?
Google him! He's debunked
all sorts of scams similar
to your "Card Reading."

But, yes, many of us have
interesting stories involving
our spiritual search to find
Truth. And many of us have
been involved with EK leadership
positions and the hierarchy.

Why not just come out of
the anti-HK closet and let
Klemp censor you like he
did with Ford Johnson? Maybe
he'll demote you but so what?
IMO-The best thing would
be to have Klemp excommunicate
you!

Prometheus


Stefan Meyer wrote:
Hi, All

I have been glancing at these posts from time to time. I really hate the thought
of having to "defend" myself on this forum. I certainly wouldn't want to get
into some extended debate that went back and forth ad infinitum. But I guess
I'll take one stab at replying to the general tenor of some of these posts, and
then I'll retire from the fray.

The reason I contacted this forum about my book was twofold. First of all--yes,
I'm trying to promote the book. I don't think that wanting to promote a book is
something to be ashamed of. All authors want to promote their books. If you
write a book and then have no desire to promote it, I doubt that anyone's ever
going to read it. So self-promotion comes with the territory of writing, even
more these days when traditional book publishers are becoming marginalized, and
authors often have to assume complete responsibility for their own marketing.

The other reason was that a few weeks ago I just happened to land on this forum,
and I read a post that honestly touched me. I can't find the post anymore, but
basically the writer was saying that, as someone who had left Eckankar, she felt
it had taken years for her to heal from the emotional scars. And I could really
relate to that because I'm going through the same thing. Doesn't matter whether
I'm still a member or not. I don't see this as a matter of just ECKists on one
side, and those who have left Eckankar on the other. There are all sorts of
people who are on the sidelines, still trying to work out these issues for
themselves, and they don't really have anywhere to turn or anyone to talk to.
This could be a forum for healing, but I guess some people are so pissed off as
a result of their experiences that they jump to conclusions and make all sorts
of accusations. I must have dark ulterior motives. I'm angling to become the
next LEM, or start my own cult. No, not really. I've just written a book and I'd
like to find some people interested in reading it. Period.

Regarding some specific comments: 1. I don't have Eckankar on my card reading
website. I have some quotes from Paul Twitchell (at least I assume they're from
Paul--maybe someone will tell me they're plagiarized. That's ok. I just like the
quotes). 2. The card reading thing isn't psychic at all. It's based on a
metaphysical system that anyone can learn for themselves. All you have to know
is how to navigate a few charts and how to interpret the symbolic language of
the cards. If I were psychic, I'd be more than happy to advertise my abilities,
but I'm not. 3. Yes, it doesn't require a whole lot of sleuthing to discover my
name. So I guess I'm really bad at being anonymous, though I tried to be. I
originally wrote the book under the name of the main character to distance
myself from the narrative, but it didn't work. Purely from a marketing
standpoint, I realized that I had to "own" what I'd written. Am I happier that
the previous post was erased? Yes, and thanks to the moderator for that
courtesy. Does that make me a coward? I guess so. But I'm still here, making my
voice heard. And I would hope that people would be a little more generous and
understand that it's difficult for people like me to work through our conflicts.
We may have to write a book to do it. And even writing the book might not be
enough. We might have to get up and defend it. And that could take more courage
than even they think they have. And maybe that deserves at least some measure of
good will.

That's pretty much all I have to say. Go in peace.


----- Original Message -----
From: prometheus_973
To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 3:27 PM
Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"


Hello Sharon and All,
S.M. sent me a message
and wanted to have his
name removed so that
he couldn't be traced,
but mentioning the book's
title doesn't require
much sleuthing in order
to discover the author's
real name (Google and
discover his Karma-Seeker
site... and he's on FB too!).

Anyway, I removed one
of his posts and was trying
to edit his name out of
another but I must
have done something
wrong and his entire
post was removed.

Did he send you something
too? Maybe he's fishing
for customers because
the EK pond has been
fished out?

BTW- Someone asked to
be able to join ESA and
said they had nice things
to say about Jerry Mulvin.
I approved their membership
out of curiosity, but they
will be monitored until
I can determine if their
status should be changed.

It's funny that Stefan does
"Card Reading" via phone,
yet, claims it's "not psychic."
Apparently the spiel is that
the technique he uses is
"spiritual" or maybe involves
"Quantum Physics." It kind
of reminded of the TV show
The Mentalist where Patrick
Jane states that the psychic
doesn't exist and that selling
it is just a con/scam and
that all he actually does
to 'know things' is to "pay
attention."

I didn't check to see that
Stefan had mentioned E-cult
in his links. For someone
who has the educational
credentials that he has it
makes one wonder about
his inability to connect-
the-dots and cover his
tracks. Being an H.I. for
a long period of time
either makes one more
skeptical or more delusional
via denial.

Of course, one could wonder
about the same in regards to
Klemp. Except, he's in it for
the Prestige, Money, and Power.

ECKists should ask: Why isn't
the ALL KNOWING Mahanta
Aware of his wayward H.I.s?
Otherwise HK would do something
about the problem like he did
with others right? Maybe Klemp
is only "aware" when someone
informs him via a snail-mail
letter like Ford did.

The real reason for Klemp's
inattention to what his H.I.'s
are doing is that he's a fake
prophet and is in it for profit!

But, what's going on with
HK's Secret RESA Police?
Why hasn't this guy been
ferreted out, detained,
questioned, suspended
from Satsang duties and
reported to the ESC? Local
H.I.s via Internet or 'phone
tree' need to be warned
as well! Who's the RESA
now for Massachusetts?
Stefan is in Boston right?

Prometheus

"Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
a name for it yet?

So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
"get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
especially those who've been in it for many years.

"a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????

I think not.

Sharon

prometheus wrote:
>
> Hello Z and All,
> Yes, it is my understanding
> that he joined the E-cult
> in 1971.
>
> [sorry for the reposts]
>
> Was "The Lost Slipper
> of Soul" printed by
> Eckankar?
>
> BTW-It seems that the
> "Kip" character is the
> alter ego of the author.
> So, perhaps, HK isn't
> all that impressive
> of a "Master/Mahanta"
> for this H.I., and I'm
> thinking that he no
> longer buys into Twit's
> plagiarisms and fiction.
>
> IMO, Based upon the
> story line, many of us
> former long-time EK
> leaders could have
> written a similar book.
> And, one could easily
> substitute "Truth Seeker"
> for "Karma Seeker," and
> "ECKankar" for "League."
>
> FYI: I Googled his
> Karma-Seeker website
> where he gives "Card
> Readings" via phone.
> So, why would a person
> still be an H.I. If he
> does Card Readings?
>
> Here's some info on the
> book from Amazon.
>
>
> BOOK DESCRIPTION:
>
> "What is the true test of spirituality?
> Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
> teaching? Or is it having the courage
> to act on one's deepest convictions,
> even in the face of disapproval and
> sanction?
>
> This is the question that confronts
> Kip Morgan.
>
> Kip is a karma seeker—an individual
> committed to testing himself by means
> of his own choices. For such people,
> who are engaged in an experiment
> with unknown forces, there is no way
> to prove that they are fit to discover
> what they seek except by doing it.
>
> As a young man, Kip joins the League,
> one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
> groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
> He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
> which involve cultivating inner experiences
> through contemplation, dreams, and out-
> of-body experiences.
>
> The high point of his experience comes
> with his initiation into the League's inner
> circle, a transcendent event that significantly
> alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
> however, before he discovers how fragile
> this experience is, and how difficult it is
> to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
>
> Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
> beyond the confines of the League.
>
> Eventually, he comes to question the
> group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
> it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
> path.
>
> As he becomes less reliant on the League
> and its members for support and guidance,
> he is torn between his personal vision of
> truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
> puts him on a collision course with the League
> President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
>
> The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
> to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
> reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
> spiritual path—its highs and lows, its rewards
> and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
> embark on such a path are tested in the areas
> of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
> their spiritual strength, all so that they may
> eventually become active participants in their
> own destiny." [end]
>
>
>
> "zephrendhun" wrote:
> >
> > Dear Prom and all,
> >
Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was
"The Lost Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know
the author who is a fine enough chap but I think Stefan is still
an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the fence', so to speak. Many
H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the Klempster
will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become
the next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will
probably continue with their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true
spiritual path and not just the cult it is. Its tough being an
individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences one
encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating
a long time freind is that they really have their doubts about
this crap's truth as well. Besides after being a none E-cultist
for a while, I have formed some significant friendships that
really don't give a s**t what my religious views are. The road
is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check
out Jesus the Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
> >
> > Zephrendhun

Hello All,
This a book review with some
info on this "ancient" Magi Deck
of 52 Card Guy (that Stefan
mentioned) who sounds like
Joseph Smith of LDS infamy:

Temple Lectures of the Order of the Magi (Paperback)

"Olney H. Richmond was the chief of the Order of the Magi, which he officially
resurrected in the upper Midwest in the late 19th century. Richmond was a Civil
War veteran who was told of the Order by a mysterious stranger one night while
he stood guard duty at Nashville. This stranger told him that he was to be his
successor and eventually passed on to him the teachings of the Magi. Further, he
told Richmond that he would pass through many battles in the course of the war,
but that no harm would come to him. This proved true.

This Order of the Magi was the star religion of the ancient Chaldeans. It is
said that this tradition existed 20,000 years before the birth of Christ. Indeed
it was held that the three Magi of the Bible were members of this order- and
that Christ himself later became an initiate. Richmond held that the Order had
centers in not only Chaldea, but also Egypt and Persia. Moreover, he held that
Pythagoras was a Grand Master of the Order (by way of the Egyptian temple.)

This book contains a collection of lectures delivered by Richmond on the
history, philosophy, and practices of the Order. An interesting aspect of the
Order was it's extensive use of magic squares and playing cards in divination.
Richmond seems to have been a natural mathematician of considerable ability (as
was also attested by his skill and mathematical analysis of the game of checkers
during the 19th century heyday of that sport.)"

Below is some info from Stefan's
Karma-Seeker website. Notice the
reference to Eckankar that was claimed
isn't there and, btw, the top of the page
refers to the card reading technique as
"The Ancient Science of Cards." Does
that remind anyone of "The Ancient
Science of Soul Travel?" And, aren't
"Astro Cards" the same as Astral Cards?

Also, what's the big deal with
metaphysics? I explored all of
this crap way before Eckankar.
It's merely extreme abstract
reasoning where good battles
evil and time, matter, and space
are transcended. Today it's
probably referred to as something
Organic or Quantum.

Anyway, if Eckankar can make
God an everyday reality of your life
why are the rest of these "Spiritual
Resources" needed and listed?

One more thing. Who are these
"ancients" that are supposed to
have so much "wisdom" coming
from a deck of 52 cards? It's
more B.S. and con that's become
a vocation just like with Twit,
DG, and HK.

I can see the need to survive
and to rationalize by using
what one knows, but there
comes a point in time when
a person must be honest and
ethical with everyone, especially,
ourselves. Otherwise the line
becomes distorted and gets
crossed more easily as time
goes by.


Prometheus

> Card Science

> Astro Cards
>
> Astro Cards book list and contact information
>
> DeckOf52: Encyclopedia Cardologia
> The Deck of 52 is a profound system for revealing the wisdom of the ancients.
This group functions as a reference for the card system first publicly
introduced by Olney H. Richmond.
>
> K.A.R.M.A. Resources
> Dedicated to providing paths to greater awareness, understanding
relationships, and avenues of action to help you shape and change your life and
destiny
>
> Seven Thunders Publishing
> Home of Robert Camp, author of Destiny Cards and Love Cards
>
>
>
> Spiritual Resources
>
> ***
> Eckankar: Religion of the Light and Sound of God
> The purpose of Eckankar is to make God an everyday reality in your life.
>
> Stefan Meyer: "Regarding some specific comments:
> 1. I don't have Eckankar on my card reading website."
> ***
> Krishnamurti Foundation of America
> Advancing public understanding and realization of human potential through the
study of the teachings of Jiddu Krishnamurti
>
> Ram Dass Tape Library Foundation
> A non-profit community dedicated to preserving and distributing Ram Dass'
teachings, particularly the tape recordings of his programs, which represent his
special oral legacy.
>
> Spiritual Dialogues Project
> Dedicated to the universal search for spiritual truth, this is a place for
dialogue, a spiritual forum where you can explore your questions and find new
insight.
>
> Local Affiliations
> Aubrey Thompson, Clinical Nutrition Wellness Consultant
> Offering a customized approach to building health through proper nutrition
>
> LaRiccia Media Productions
> Host and executive producer of the thrice Emmy-nominated, live action PBS
show, JoJo's DreamCart, video producer, and documentary filmmaker
>
> Open Doors Learning & Healing Center
> Specializing in new age and holistic products. Offering workshops and classes,
astrological forecasts, free services, yoga classes, and yoga teacher training
>
> Shunyam Productions
> Events for yoga, meditation, and the healing arts
>
> Susan Baker, Holistic Nutritionist/Wellness Coach
> Eden Energy Medicine practitioner
>
> Theosophical Society in Boston
> A community of spiritually minded people who share the conviction that the
pursuit of truth has many paths
>
> Vrindavana Preservation Society
> A non-profit cultural organization dedicated to the preservation and promotion
of Braj Culture around the world
>
> Yoga at the Ashram
> The Baba Siri Chand Yoga and Retreat Center in Millis, Massachusetts
>
> "Stefan Meyer"  wrote:
> >
> > Hi, All
> >
> > I have been glancing at these posts from time to time. I really hate the
thought of having to "defend" myself on this forum. I certainly wouldn't want to
get into some extended debate that went back and forth ad infinitum. But I guess
I'll take one stab at replying to the general tenor of some of these posts, and
then I'll retire from the fray.
> >
> > The reason I contacted this forum about my book was twofold. First of
all--yes, I'm trying to promote the book. I don't think that wanting to promote
a book is something to be ashamed of. All authors want to promote their books.
If you write a book and then have no desire to promote it, I doubt that anyone's
ever going to read it. So self-promotion comes with the territory of writing,
even more these days when traditional book publishers are becoming marginalized,
and authors often have to assume complete responsibility for their own
marketing.
> >
> > The other reason was that a few weeks ago I just happened to land on this
forum, and I read a post that honestly touched me. I can't find the post
anymore, but basically the writer was saying that, as someone who had left
Eckankar, she felt it had taken years for her to heal from the emotional scars.
And I could really relate to that because I'm going through the same thing.
Doesn't matter whether I'm still a member or not. I don't see this as a matter
of just ECKists on one side, and those who have left Eckankar on the other.
There are all sorts of people who are on the sidelines, still trying to work out
these issues for themselves, and they don't really have anywhere to turn or
anyone to talk to. This could be a forum for healing, but I guess some people
are so pissed off as a result of their experiences that they jump to conclusions
and make all sorts of accusations. I must have dark ulterior motives. I'm
angling to become the next LEM, or start my own cult. No, not really. I've just
written a book and I'd like to find some people interested in reading it.
Period.
>
> ***
> Regarding some specific comments:
> 1. I don't have Eckankar on my card reading website.
> ***
>
> I have some quotes from Paul Twitchell (at least I assume they're from
Paul--maybe someone will tell me they're plagiarized. That's ok. I just like the
quotes). 2. The card reading thing isn't psychic at all. It's based on a
metaphysical system that anyone can learn for themselves. All you have to know
is how to navigate a few charts and how to interpret the symbolic language of
the cards. If I were psychic, I'd be more than happy to advertise my abilities,
but I'm not. 3. Yes, it doesn't require a whole lot of sleuthing to discover my
name. So I guess I'm really bad at being anonymous, though I tried to be. I
originally wrote the book under the name of the main character to distance
myself from the narrative, but it didn't work. Purely from a marketing
standpoint, I realized that I had to "own" what I'd written. Am I happier that
the previous post was erased? Yes, and thanks to the moderator for that
courtesy. Does that make me a coward? I guess so. But I'm still here, making my
voice heard. And I would hope that people would be a little more generous and
understand that it's difficult for people like me to work through our conflicts.
We may have to write a book to do it. And even writing the book might not be
enough. We might have to get up and defend it. And that could take more courage
than even they think they have. And maybe that deserves at least some measure of
good will.
> >
> > That's pretty much all I have to say. Go in peace.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: prometheus_973
> >   To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
> >   Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 3:27 PM
> >   Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"
> >
> >
> >
> >   Hello Sharon and All,
> >   S.M. sent me a message
> >   and wanted to have his
> >   name removed so that
> >   he couldn't be traced,
> >   but mentioning the book's
> >   title doesn't require
> >   much sleuthing in order
> >   to discover the author's
> >   real name (Google and
> >   discover his Karma-Seeker
> >   site... and he's on FB too!).
> >
> >   Anyway, I removed one
> >   of his posts and was trying
> >   to edit his name out of
> >   another but I must
> >   have done something
> >   wrong and his entire
> >   post was removed.
> >
> >   Did he send you something
> >   too? Maybe he's fishing
> >   for customers because
> >   the EK pond has been
> >   fished out?
> >
> >   BTW- Someone asked to
> >   be able to join ESA and
> >   said they had nice things
> >   to say about Jerry Mulvin.
> >   I approved their membership
> >   out of curiosity, but they
> >   will be monitored until
> >   I can determine if their
> >   status should be changed.
> >
> >   It's funny that Stefan does
> >   "Card Reading" via phone,
> >   yet, claims it's "not psychic."
> >   Apparently the spiel is that
> >   the technique he uses is
> >   "spiritual" or maybe involves
> >   "Quantum Physics." It kind
> >   of reminded of the TV show
> >   The Mentalist where Patrick
> >   Jane states that the psychic
> >   doesn't exist and that selling
> >   it is just a con/scam and
> >   that all he actually does
> >   to 'know things' is to "pay
> >   attention."
> >
> >   I didn't check to see that
> >   Stefan had mentioned E-cult
> >   in his links. For someone
> >   who has the educational
> >   credentials that he has it
> >   makes one wonder about
> >   his inability to connect-
> >   the-dots and cover his
> >   tracks. Being an H.I. for
> >   a long period of time
> >   either makes one more
> >   skeptical or more delusional
> >   via denial.
> >
> >   Of course, one could wonder
> >   about the same in regards to
> >   Klemp. Except, he's in it for
> >   the Prestige, Money, and Power.
> >
> >   ECKists should ask: Why isn't
> >   the ALL KNOWING Mahanta
> >   Aware of his wayward H.I.s?
> >   Otherwise HK would do something
> >   about the problem like he did
> >   with others right? Maybe Klemp
> >   is only "aware" when someone
> >   informs him via a snail-mail
> >   letter like Ford did.
> >
> >   The real reason for Klemp's
> >   inattention to what his H.I.'s
> >   are doing is that he's a fake
> >   prophet and is in it for profit!
> >
> >   But, what's going on with
> >   HK's Secret RESA Police?
> >   Why hasn't this guy been
> >   ferreted out, detained,
> >   questioned, suspended
> >   from Satsang duties and
> >   reported to the ESC? Local
> >   H.I.s via Internet or 'phone
> >   tree' need to be warned
> >   as well! Who's the RESA
> >   now for Massachusetts?
> >   Stefan is in Boston right?
> >
> >   Prometheus
> >
> >   "Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
> >   So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
> >   readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what
are
> >   you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you
have
> >   a name for it yet?
> >
> >   So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like
Jerry
> >   Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you
afraid
> >   to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And
wander
> >   for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?
> >
> >   You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not?
You've
> >   got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.
> >
> >   It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if
you
> >   "get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.
> >
> >   I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two
qualities
> >   which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its
members,
> >   especially those who've been in it for many years.
> >
> >   "a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????
> >
> >   I think not.
> >
> >   Sharon
> >
> >   prometheus wrote:
> >   >
> >   > Hello Z and All,
> >   > Yes, it is my understanding
> >   > that he joined the E-cult
> >   > in 1971.
> >   >
> >   > [sorry for the reposts]
> >   >
> >   > Was "The Lost Slipper
> >   > of Soul" printed by
> >   > Eckankar?
> >   >
> >   > BTW-It seems that the
> >   > "Kip" character is the
> >   > alter ego of the author.
> >   > So, perhaps, HK isn't
> >   > all that impressive
> >   > of a "Master/Mahanta"
> >   > for this H.I., and I'm
> >   > thinking that he no
> >   > longer buys into Twit's
> >   > plagiarisms and fiction.
> >   >
> >   > IMO, Based upon the
> >   > story line, many of us
> >   > former long-time EK
> >   > leaders could have
> >   > written a similar book.
> >   > And, one could easily
> >   > substitute "Truth Seeker"
> >   > for "Karma Seeker," and
> >   > "ECKankar" for "League."
> >   >
> >   > FYI: I Googled his
> >   > Karma-Seeker website
> >   > where he gives "Card
> >   > Readings" via phone.
> >   > So, why would a person
> >   > still be an H.I. If he
> >   > does Card Readings?
> >   >
> >   > Here's some info on the
> >   > book from Amazon.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > BOOK DESCRIPTION:
> >   >
> >   > "What is the true test of spirituality?
> >   > Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
> >   > teaching? Or is it having the courage
> >   > to act on one's deepest convictions,
> >   > even in the face of disapproval and
> >   > sanction?
> >   >
> >   > This is the question that confronts
> >   > Kip Morgan.
> >   >
> >   > Kip is a karma seeker-an individual
> >   > committed to testing himself by means
> >   > of his own choices. For such people,
> >   > who are engaged in an experiment
> >   > with unknown forces, there is no way
> >   > to prove that they are fit to discover
> >   > what they seek except by doing it.
> >   >
> >   > As a young man, Kip joins the League,
> >   > one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
> >   > groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
> >   > He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
> >   > which involve cultivating inner experiences
> >   > through contemplation, dreams, and out-
> >   > of-body experiences.
> >   >
> >   > The high point of his experience comes
> >   > with his initiation into the League's inner
> >   > circle, a transcendent event that significantly
> >   > alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
> >   > however, before he discovers how fragile
> >   > this experience is, and how difficult it is
> >   > to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
> >   >
> >   > Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
> >   > beyond the confines of the League.
> >   >
> >   > Eventually, he comes to question the
> >   > group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
> >   > it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
> >   > path.
> >   >
> >   > As he becomes less reliant on the League
> >   > and its members for support and guidance,
> >   > he is torn between his personal vision of
> >   > truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
> >   > puts him on a collision course with the League
> >   > President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
> >   >
> >   > The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
> >   > to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
> >   > reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
> >   > spiritual path-its highs and lows, its rewards
> >   > and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
> >   > embark on such a path are tested in the areas
> >   > of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
> >   > their spiritual strength, all so that they may
> >   > eventually become active participants in their
> >   > own destiny." [end]
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > "zephrendhun" wrote:
> >   > >
> >   > > Dear Prom and all,
> >   > >
> >   Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was
> >   "The Lost Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know
> >   the author who is a fine enough chap but I think Stefan is still
> >   an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the fence', so to speak. Many
> >   H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the Klempster
> >   will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become
> >   the next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will
> >   probably continue with their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true
> >   spiritual path and not just the cult it is. Its tough being an
> >   individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences one
> >   encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating
> >   a long time freind is that they really have their doubts about
> >   this crap's truth as well. Besides after being a none E-cultist
> >   for a while, I have formed some significant friendships that
> >   really don't give a s**t what my religious views are. The road
> >   is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
> >   delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check
> >   out Jesus the Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
> >   > >
> >   > > Zephrendhun
> >
>

FYI:
Substitute and fill-in the
blanks from an ECK perspective
where it fits and keep the
following in mind:

God/Sugmad; ECKANKAR;
Satsang; Klemp; The Mahanta;
HUing; Missionary/Arahata
Work; Contemplating;
Beseeching and Dependence
upon the Mahanta/Prayer;
Membership Fees; Donations;
Initiations; Service; Silence;
Acceptance; Acting As If Happy;
P.T.'s Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad;
the Four Zoas; Invisible Masters;
Hierarchies; Animal Angels;
Rules/Laws; Faith; Belief;
etc.

Strange, that Twitchell started
out saying he wanted to pay
taxes and keep Eckankar
from becoming like the rest...
a religion. That sort of reminds
me of what Romney would say.
Still, those Ancient Invisible
Dreamy Pretend Masters were
okay to accept... just like other
religions and Sant Mat that
Twitch copied.


George Carlin:

I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to
two pieces of wood. [George Carlin, from the album "A Place For My Stuff"]


We created god in our own image and likeness! [George Carlin]


I credit that eight years of grammar school with nourishing me in a direction
where I could trust myself and trust my instincts. They gave me the tools to
reject my faith. They taught me to question and think for myself and to believe
in my instincts to such an extent that I just said, 'This is a wonderful fairy
tale they have going here, but it's not for me.' [George Carlin, in the _New
York Times_ 20 August 1995, pg. 17. He attended Cardinal Hayes High School in
the Bronx, but left during his sophomore year in 1952 and never went back to
school. Before that he attended a Catholic grammar school, Corpus Christi, which
he called an experimental school.]


If churches want to play the game of politics, let them pay admission like
everyone else [George Carlin, from the album "What Am I Doing In New Jersey?"]


This is a lttle prayer dedicated to the separation of church and state. I guess
if they are going to force those kids to pray in schools they might as well have
a nice prayer like this: Our Father who art in heaven, and to the republic for
which it stands, thy kingdom come, one nation indivisible as in heaven, give us
this day as we forgive those who so proudly we hail. Crown thy good into
temptation but deliver us from the twilight's last gleaming. Amen and Awomen.
[George Carlin, on Saturday Night Live]


I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that
these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together
is certain death. [George Carlin]


Religion convinced the world that there's an invisible man in the sky who
watches everything you do. And there's 10 things he doesn't want you to do or
else you'll go to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity.
But he loves you! ...And he needs money! He's all powerful, but he can't handle
money! [George Carlin, fromalbum "You Are All Diseased" (it can also be found in
the book "Napalm and Silly Putty".]


The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music. [George Carlin,
Brain Droppings]


I've begun worshipping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike
some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It's there for me every day.
And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food,
a lovely day. There's no mystery, no one asks for money, I don't have to dress
up, and there's no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that
the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all
answered at about the same 50-percent rate. [George Carlin, from "You Are All
Diseased".]


A man came up to me on the street and said I used to be messed up out of my mind
on drugs but now I'm messed up out of my mind on Jeeesus Chriiist. [George
Carlin]


I have as much authority as the pope, I just don't have as many people who
believe it. [George Carlin, Brain Droppings]


Jesus was a cross dresser [George Carlin, Brain Droppings]


I finally accepted Jesus. not as my personal savior, but as a man I intend to
borrow money from. [George Carlin, Brain Droppings]


Instead of school busing and prayer in schools, which are both controversial,
why not a joint solution? Prayer in buses. Just drive these kids around all day
and let them pray their fuckn' empty little heads off. [George Carlin, Brain
Droppings]


When it comes to BULLSHIT...BIG-TIME, MAJOR LEAGUE BULLSHIT... you have to stand
IN AWE, IN AWE of the all time champion of false promises and exaggerated
claims, religion. [George Carlin, from "You Are All Diseased".]


Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it,
religion has actually convinced people that there's an INVISIBLE MAN...LIVING IN
THE SKY...who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day. And the
invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do.
And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and
smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send to live and suffer
and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever 'til the end of
time...but he loves you. [George Carlin, from "You Are All Diseased"]


I want you to know, when it comes to believing in god- I really tried. I really
really tried. I tried to believe that there is a god who created each one of us
in his own image and likeness, loves us very much and keeps a close eye on
things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you
live, the more you look around, the more you realize...something is FUCKED-UP.
Something is WRONG here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth,
poverty, torture, crime, corruption and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely
wrong. This is NOT good work. If this is the best god can do, I am NOT
impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being.
This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude.
And just between you and me, in any decently run universe, this guy would have
been out on his all-powerful-ass a long time ago. [George Carlin, from "You Are
All Diseased".]


Trillions and trillions of prayers every day asking and begging and pleading for
favors. 'Do this' 'Gimme that' 'I want a new car' 'I want a better job'. And
most of this praying takes place on Sunday. And I say fine, pray for anything
you want. Pray for anything. But...what about the divine plan? Remember that?
The divine plan. Long time ago god made a divine plan. Gave it a lot of thought.
Decided it was a good plan. Put it into practice. And for billion and billions
of years the divine plan has been doing just fine. Now you come along and pray
for something. Well, suppose the thing you want isn't in god's divine plan. What
do you want him to do? Change his plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little
arrogant? It's a divine plan. What's the use of being god if every run-down
schmuck with a two dollar prayer book can come along and fuck up your plan? And
here's something else, another problem you might have; suppose your prayers
aren't answered. What do you say? 'Well it's god's will. God's will be done.'
Fine, but if it gods will and he's going to do whatever he wants to anyway; why
the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to
me. Couldn't you just skip the praying part and get right to his will? [George
Carlin, from "You Are All Diseased".]


You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Joe Pesci. Two reasons; first of all, I think
he's a good actor. Ok. To me, that counts. Second; he looks like a guy who can
get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. Doesn't fuck around. In fact,
Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that god was having trouble with.
For years I asked god to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking
dog. Joe Pesci straightened that cock-sucker out with one visit. [George Carlin,
from "You Are All Diseased".]


I noticed that of all the prayers I used to offer to god, and all the prayers
that I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answer at about the same 50% rate. Half
the time I get what I want. Half the time I don't. Same as god 50/50. Same as
the four leaf clover, the horse shoe, the rabbit's foot, and the wishing well.
Same as the mojo man. Same as the voodoo lady who tells your fortune by
squeezing the goat's testicles. It's all the same; 50/50. So just pick your
superstitions, sit back, make a wish and enjoy yourself. And for those of you
that look to the Bible for it's literary qualities and moral lessons; I got a
couple other stories I might like to recommend for you. You might enjoy The
Three Little Pigs. That's a good one. It has a nice happy ending. Then there's
Little Red Riding Hood. Although it does have that one x-rated part where the
Big-Bad-Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way.
And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty.
The part I liked best: ...and all the king's horses, and all the king's men
couldn't put Humpty together again. That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty,
and there is no god. None. Not one. Never was. No god. [George Carlin, from "You
Are All Diseased".]


Religion is sort of like a lift in your shoes. If it makes you feel better,
fine. Just don't ask me to wear your shoes. [George Carlin]


Here's another question I've been pondering- What is all this shit about Angels?
Have you heard this? 3 out of 4 people belive in Angels. Are you FUCKING STUPID?
Has everybody lost their mind? You know what I think it is? I think it's a
massive, collective, psychotic chemical flashback for all the drugs smoked,
swallowed, shot, and obsorbed rectally by all Americans from 1960 to 1990. 30
years of street drugs will get you some fucking Angels my friend! [George
Carlin, from "You Are All Diseased".]

What about Goblins, huh? Doesn't anybody belive in Goblins? You never hear about
this.. Except on Halloween and then it's all negative shit. And what about
Zombies? You never hear from Zombies! That's the trouble with Zombies, they're
unreliable! I say if you're going to go for the Angel bullshit you might as well
go for the Zombie package as well.. [George Carlin, from "You Are All
Diseased".]

Great post!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo&feature=related

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
<prometheus_973@...> wrote:
>
> FYI:
> Substitute and fill-in the
> blanks from an ECK perspective
> where it fits and keep the
> following in mind:
>
> God/Sugmad; ECKANKAR;
> Satsang; Klemp; The Mahanta;
> HUing; Missionary/Arahata
> Work; Contemplating;
> Beseeching and Dependence
> upon the Mahanta/Prayer;
> Membership Fees; Donations;
> Initiations; Service; Silence;
> Acceptance; Acting As If Happy;
> P.T.'s Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad;
> the Four Zoas; Invisible Masters;
> Hierarchies; Animal Angels;
> Rules/Laws; Faith; Belief;
> etc.
>
> Strange, that Twitchell started
> out saying he wanted to pay
> taxes and keep Eckankar
> from becoming like the rest...
> a religion. That sort of reminds
> me of what Romney would say.
> Still, those Ancient Invisible
> Dreamy Pretend Masters were
> okay to accept... just like other
> religions and Sant Mat that
> Twitch copied.
>
>
> George Carlin:
>
> I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to
two pieces of wood. [George Carlin, from the album "A Place For My Stuff"]
>
>
> We created god in our own image and likeness! [George Carlin]
>
>
> I credit that eight years of grammar school with nourishing me in a direction
where I could trust myself and trust my instincts. They gave me the tools to
reject my faith. They taught me to question and think for myself and to believe
in my instincts to such an extent that I just said, 'This is a wonderful fairy
tale they have going here, but it's not for me.' [George Carlin, in the _New
York Times_ 20 August 1995, pg. 17. He attended Cardinal Hayes High School in
the Bronx, but left during his sophomore year in 1952 and never went back to
school. Before that he attended a Catholic grammar school, Corpus Christi, which
he called an experimental school.]
>
>
> If churches want to play the game of politics, let them pay admission like
everyone else [George Carlin, from the album "What Am I Doing In New Jersey?"]
>
>
> This is a lttle prayer dedicated to the separation of church and state. I
guess if they are going to force those kids to pray in schools they might as
well have a nice prayer like this: Our Father who art in heaven, and to the
republic for which it stands, thy kingdom come, one nation indivisible as in
heaven, give us this day as we forgive those who so proudly we hail. Crown thy
good into temptation but deliver us from the twilight's last gleaming. Amen and
Awomen. [George Carlin, on Saturday Night Live]
>
>
> I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that
these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together
is certain death. [George Carlin]
>
>
> Religion convinced the world that there's an invisible man in the sky who
watches everything you do. And there's 10 things he doesn't want you to do or
else you'll go to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity.
But he loves you! ...And he needs money! He's all powerful, but he can't handle
money! [George Carlin, fromalbum "You Are All Diseased" (it can also be found in
the book "Napalm and Silly Putty".]
>
>
> The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music. [George
Carlin, Brain Droppings]
>
>
> I've begun worshipping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike
some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It's there for me every day.
And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food,
a lovely day. There's no mystery, no one asks for money, I don't have to dress
up, and there's no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that
the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all
answered at about the same 50-percent rate. [George Carlin, from "You Are All
Diseased".]
>
>
> A man came up to me on the street and said I used to be messed up out of my
mind on drugs but now I'm messed up out of my mind on Jeeesus Chriiist. [George
Carlin]
>
>
> I have as much authority as the pope, I just don't have as many people who
believe it. [George Carlin, Brain Droppings]
>
>
> Jesus was a cross dresser [George Carlin, Brain Droppings]
>
>
> I finally accepted Jesus. not as my personal savior, but as a man I intend to
borrow money from. [George Carlin, Brain Droppings]
>
>
> Instead of school busing and prayer in schools, which are both controversial,
why not a joint solution? Prayer in buses. Just drive these kids around all day
and let them pray their fuckn' empty little heads off. [George Carlin, Brain
Droppings]
>
>
> When it comes to BULLSHIT...BIG-TIME, MAJOR LEAGUE BULLSHIT... you have to
stand IN AWE, IN AWE of the all time champion of false promises and exaggerated
claims, religion. [George Carlin, from "You Are All Diseased".]
>
>
> Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it,
religion has actually convinced people that there's an INVISIBLE MAN...LIVING IN
THE SKY...who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day. And the
invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do.
And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and
smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send to live and suffer
and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever 'til the end of
time...but he loves you. [George Carlin, from "You Are All Diseased"]
>
>
> I want you to know, when it comes to believing in god- I really tried. I
really really tried. I tried to believe that there is a god who created each one
of us in his own image and likeness, loves us very much and keeps a close eye on
things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you
live, the more you look around, the more you realize...something is FUCKED-UP.
Something is WRONG here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth,
poverty, torture, crime, corruption and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely
wrong. This is NOT good work. If this is the best god can do, I am NOT
impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being.
This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude.
And just between you and me, in any decently run universe, this guy would have
been out on his all-powerful-ass a long time ago. [George Carlin, from "You Are
All Diseased".]
>
>
> Trillions and trillions of prayers every day asking and begging and pleading
for favors. 'Do this' 'Gimme that' 'I want a new car' 'I want a better job'. And
most of this praying takes place on Sunday. And I say fine, pray for anything
you want. Pray for anything. But...what about the divine plan? Remember that?
The divine plan. Long time ago god made a divine plan. Gave it a lot of thought.
Decided it was a good plan. Put it into practice. And for billion and billions
of years the divine plan has been doing just fine. Now you come along and pray
for something. Well, suppose the thing you want isn't in god's divine plan. What
do you want him to do? Change his plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little
arrogant? It's a divine plan. What's the use of being god if every run-down
schmuck with a two dollar prayer book can come along and fuck up your plan? And
here's something else, another problem you might have; suppose your prayers
aren't answered. What do you say? 'Well it's god's will. God's will be done.'
Fine, but if it gods will and he's going to do whatever he wants to anyway; why
the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to
me. Couldn't you just skip the praying part and get right to his will? [George
Carlin, from "You Are All Diseased".]
>
>
> You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Joe Pesci. Two reasons; first of all, I
think he's a good actor. Ok. To me, that counts. Second; he looks like a guy who
can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. Doesn't fuck around. In
fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that god was having trouble
with. For years I asked god to do something about my noisy neighbor with the
barking dog. Joe Pesci straightened that cock-sucker out with one visit. [George
Carlin, from "You Are All Diseased".]
>
>
> I noticed that of all the prayers I used to offer to god, and all the prayers
that I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answer at about the same 50% rate. Half
the time I get what I want. Half the time I don't. Same as god 50/50. Same as
the four leaf clover, the horse shoe, the rabbit's foot, and the wishing well.
Same as the mojo man. Same as the voodoo lady who tells your fortune by
squeezing the goat's testicles. It's all the same; 50/50. So just pick your
superstitions, sit back, make a wish and enjoy yourself. And for those of you
that look to the Bible for it's literary qualities and moral lessons; I got a
couple other stories I might like to recommend for you. You might enjoy The
Three Little Pigs. That's a good one. It has a nice happy ending. Then there's
Little Red Riding Hood. Although it does have that one x-rated part where the
Big-Bad-Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way.
And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty.
The part I liked best: ...and all the king's horses, and all the king's men
couldn't put Humpty together again. That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty,
and there is no god. None. Not one. Never was. No god. [George Carlin, from "You
Are All Diseased".]
>
>
> Religion is sort of like a lift in your shoes. If it makes you feel better,
fine. Just don't ask me to wear your shoes. [George Carlin]
>
>
> Here's another question I've been pondering- What is all this shit about
Angels? Have you heard this? 3 out of 4 people belive in Angels. Are you FUCKING
STUPID? Has everybody lost their mind? You know what I think it is? I think it's
a massive, collective, psychotic chemical flashback for all the drugs smoked,
swallowed, shot, and obsorbed rectally by all Americans from 1960 to 1990. 30
years of street drugs will get you some fucking Angels my friend! [George
Carlin, from "You Are All Diseased".]
>
> What about Goblins, huh? Doesn't anybody belive in Goblins? You never hear
about this.. Except on Halloween and then it's all negative shit. And what about
Zombies? You never hear from Zombies! That's the trouble with Zombies, they're
unreliable! I say if you're going to go for the Angel bullshit you might as well
go for the Zombie package as well.. [George Carlin, from "You Are All
Diseased".]
>

I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it
between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me
they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying
saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any
statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
"Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the
desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go to
the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a
painting.
I am rambling.
Diana Stanley

























--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Avonblue"
<gowiththeflow1212@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had since its
conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left over the years and
how many members there are now?
> It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into this
organization anymore.
>
> Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar for
membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or does the fact
that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that as legal possibility?
>

They lied so much about so many things.

Search the following documents for the words: the connection. Example:

"Wasn't it he who wrote `Lead, Kindly Light'?"

"Yes. He also wrote: `Knowledge is one thing, virtue is another ...
Philosophy, however enlightened, however profound, gives no command
over the passions, no influential motives, no vivifying principles.'
Memorize that, and have nothing to do with philosophy, it's no good."

"But how does that fit the influenza epidemic? I don't see the
connection."

"I knew, what every genuine thinker has known since the dawn of
history, that epidemics -- and endemics, too, are a product of the
subconscious mind of humanity. The only actual substance of that stuff
is the fear that builds up the illusion and all its consequences. That
is why Jesus called it `a liar, and the father of it.' The mass mind
fears and consequently creates vengeance upon its own secret
swinishness. [... .]

http://arthursclassicnovels.com/mundy/ugfa10.html

Compare with:

     "Now remember this. As the great spiritual guru Yaubl Sacabi once
said, 'Knowledge is one thing, virtue is another.' No matter how
enlightening it may be, philosophy gives no command over the passions,
no influential motives, no inescapable principles. It is not worth much
in the crises of mankind. How can it help in time of epidemics?"
   
    I said, "I don't get the connection."

     "All right, you know what every genuine thinker has known since the
dawn of time: that epidemics (and endemics, too) are a product of the
submind of humanity. The only actual substance is the fear that builds
up the illusion and all its consequences. This is why Jesus spoke of
the devil, the submind, as a liar and the father of it. The mass mind
fears and consequently creates vengeance upon itself. It is the father
of spiritual arrogance. [... .]"

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0KObtCQpPKbZDhiNjhkZmQtNjI5Yy00ZTZlLWJjZDYtYjY3\
Yzg1Y2I4Mzhj/edit?pli=1

***

Apparently, Paul Twitchell appropriated a dialogue from Talbot Mundy's
1940 book and changed the names.

That was just a small example.

I would tend to agree that "they" (somebody) lied.

-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Stanley <dianastanley43@...>
To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
<EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:00 pm
Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Statistics question

 
I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the
bulls++it between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me
trying to convince me they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me
one night drunk and crying saying he was the real master. I told him to
go to bed.
I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are
any statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
"Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting
to the desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did
he go to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways
to destroy a painting.
I am rambling.
Diana Stanley

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Avonblue"
<gowiththeflow1212@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had
since its conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left
over the years and how many members there are now?
> It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into
this organization anymore.
>
> Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar
for membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or
does the fact that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that
as legal possibility?
>

And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in
wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so
strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd
mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual
done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have
ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.

Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit that
we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic
philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than
today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any
Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.

Non ; )

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Stanley"
<dianastanley43@...> wrote:
>
> I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it
between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me
they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying
saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
> I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
> plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
> out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any
statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
> One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
> "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
> When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the
desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
> if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go to
the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a
painting.
> I am rambling.
> Diana Stanley
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Avonblue"
<gowiththeflow1212@> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had since its
conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left over the years and
how many members there are now?
> > It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into this
organization anymore.
> >
> > Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar for
membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or does the fact
that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that as legal possibility?
> >
>

just an observation. I read the posts about Harold and his personality.
  I worked with him when he was in charge of the photo shop. At that time I did
the art for the " Eck World News" so I would go into his cave in the photo shop.
He was very shy and aloof untill I got him to laughing about something silly
then he would agree to put my job on the front burner.
He never came out even for lunch. He avoided intimate relations and had no
friends. I felt sorry for him and still do.
He did not have what it takes to be in charge of a large group of people or any
thing spiritual, His OCD made him conpulive in many areas.
I was really suprized when he married Marge and had a kid. Of course it did'nt
last, and he treated her and the girl badly.
I won't go into that as I respect Margorie and don't want to reveil her
experiences.
He could be very petty about the photo shop and people hanging around wanting to
talk to him. At the time i thought he had mental health issues. I thought he
might be bi-polor. Going a mile minute and then with drawn and depressed.
This type of personaliy usally finds a role as a spiritual leader can only lead
to disaster.
He reminds me of the Howard Hughes syndrom.
I have many more things that put up a red flag when he took on the leadership of
eckankar. Lets just say I am not suprized how his evolution turned creepy. Just
don't drink the coolade !!
Diana stanley

<giggle>  Not only did I keep a photo of Klemp on the TV, I gave one to my son
for his wallet & told him Harold would always protect him, and he should talk to
him, etc.  Years later he told me he thought I was nuts.  He said he felt like
there was "someone or something" always with him, but it sure as heck wasn't
Klemp, and it had nothing to do with ekult.

Anyway, when I got on the internet the first place I landed was
alt.religion.eckankar, which was quite something back then!  An HI told me there
were evil entities on the internet and some eckists had actually experienced
them coming out of the monitor.  So, I put a photo of Klemp right on the wall
over the monitor.

Gotta laugh, you know?  Reminds me of a silly eckstory, an eckist was riding on
an airplane and "knew" it was going to crash, so she conjured up little
eckanmechanics in her head to tighten all the nuts & bolts.  When she debarked,
she noticed the pilot and thought wow, he had *no* idea that the plane was going
to crash but "the eck" saved him!

Oh - while I think of it, Diana - did you ever think about writing a book?  It
would be fascinating - and I might even buy one new & full price!!

Hugs,

Sharon

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non" <eckchains@...> wrote:
>
> And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in
wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so
strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd
mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual
done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have
ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.
>
> Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit
that we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic
philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than
today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any
Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.
>
> Non ; )
>
> --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Stanley"
<dianastanley43@> wrote:
> >
> > I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it
between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me
they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying
saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
> > I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
> > plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
> > out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any
statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
> > One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
> > "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
> > When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the
desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
> > if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go
to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a
painting.
> > I am rambling.
> > Diana Stanley
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Avonblue"
<gowiththeflow1212@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had since its
conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left over the years and
how many members there are now?
> > > It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into this
organization anymore.
> > >
> > > Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar for
membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or does the fact
that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that as legal possibility?
> > >
> >
>

Sharon I think Steven King would be a better author for a book about the comings
and goings about Eck Masters.


--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <brighttigress@...>
wrote:
>
>
> <giggle>  Not only did I keep a photo of Klemp on the TV, I gave one to my son
for his wallet & told him Harold would always protect him, and he should talk to
him, etc.  Years later he told me he thought I was nuts.  He said he felt like
there was "someone or something" always with him, but it sure as heck wasn't
Klemp, and it had nothing to do with ekult.
>
> Anyway, when I got on the internet the first place I landed was
alt.religion.eckankar, which was quite something back then!  An HI told me there
were evil entities on the internet and some eckists had actually experienced
them coming out of the monitor.  So, I put a photo of Klemp right on the wall
over the monitor.
>
> Gotta laugh, you know?  Reminds me of a silly eckstory, an eckist was riding
on an airplane and "knew" it was going to crash, so she conjured up little
eckanmechanics in her head to tighten all the nuts & bolts.  When she debarked,
she noticed the pilot and thought wow, he had *no* idea that the plane was going
to crash but "the eck" saved him!
>
> Oh - while I think of it, Diana - did you ever think about writing a book?  It
would be fascinating - and I might even buy one new & full price!!
>
> Hugs,
>
> Sharon
>
> --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non" <eckchains@> wrote:
> >
> > And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp,
in wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so
strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd
mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual
done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have
ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.
> >
> > Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit
that we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic
philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than
today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any
Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.
> >
> > Non ; )
> >
> > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Stanley"
<dianastanley43@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it
between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me
they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying
saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
> > > I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
> > > plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
> > > out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any
statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
> > > One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
> > > "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
> > > When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to
the desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
> > > if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he
go to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a
painting.
> > > I am rambling.
> > > Diana Stanley
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Avonblue"
<gowiththeflow1212@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had since
its conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left over the years
and how many members there are now?
> > > > It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into this
organization anymore.
> > > >
> > > > Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar for
membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or does the fact
that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that as legal possibility?
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Hello Sharon and All,
I never did card readings
but I did do other types
of "psychic" readings,
Reiki (type) healing
(by phone too), and
taught meditation.
I was taught to do the
psychic reading techniques
from a well known foreign
psychic for over a year.
At times she would
have me sit in on
some of her readings
and assist her. That
was prior to Eck of
course. I will say that
I never did anything
for anyone. And, what
money I charged (for
meditation classes
only) was given to my
friend, because it was
conducted in her offices,
and helped her to pay
her bills. I never took
money for readings
nor for healing.....
There was a 100%
success rate on the
healing done, according
to those that were helped,
so something seemed
to be happening, but
who knows if it was
suggestion/hypnosis
or what. I stopped after
joining Eckankar mostly
due to the Karma scare.

Prometheus

Sharon wrote:
Gawd, this is a looooong digest!

First of all - Jerry Mulvin.  See:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/files/AFTER%20ECKANKAR%20-%20WHAT%3F\
%3F/Jerry%20Mulvin/

Yahoo only allows members to access group files; I'd rather have everything at
"eckankartruth" open to the public.

Stefan - there's absolutely no anonymity on the internet.  I used to tell ET's
members that they'd be anonymous and no one but me would know anyone's real
names - until I learned that you can see message headers and track people down. 
Others have tried to "screen" people in their groups but people lie, and eckists
*do* get in.  Silly, isn't it?

They've calmed down a bit since back in the 90's when I started.  You wouldn't
believe how far the HI Eckthugs went in their efforts to silence me & get me off
the internet!!   Everything from contacting my ISPs to breaking & entering to
threatening my family.

Anyway, Stefan - check out your book's listing at Amazon.  Did you make any
changes from the 2003 version?  I ask because I might be interested in reading
it but not until cheap used ones are available, like "Lost Slipper of Soul". 
And is "Rest Points in Eternity" the same book as....whoops, can't find that
page again.

Anyway, don't get your knickers in a knot over this.  Wherever I go, I click on
links and sometimes end up with a dozen or more tabs open and it can be pretty
overwhelming....

If you're going thru "stuff" - well, actually I started out helping people thru
the psychological trauma of leaving.  For some it's easy, but others get severe
cases of post-traumatic stress disorder and need professional help, but the
problem there is that there are few professionals who know or understand about
leaving a cult.

I've compared it to being in a perfect marriage with a perfect spouse, and
coming home early one day and finding them in bed having sex with a dog.

I've got some links to healing sites at ET, and I'm sure Prometheus has some
here too.  I got a lot of help on the internet when I got out.  Years back I
used to get dozens of emails from traumatized newbie exes every week, don't know
how I did all that typing, TG it's slowed down because I can't do it anymore.

Anyway, Twitch probably wouldn't last long if he started up now.  Thanks to the
internet, he'd get caught & outed very quickly.

Oh - Prometheus, yeah I agree about those awesome academic credentials, but they
don't translate to internet street-savvy.  BTW, don't knock card readings - I
used to do it years ago, still get people asking for readings and my natal
charts.  I was damned good!  But I never could learn which card meant what, I'd
just sort of wave my hand over them and "tune in".

Anyway, Stefan - believe me, I know how hard it can be.  One thing I'd suggest
through long experience that might help you, seriously, is - resign from
membership.  Write Klemp a letter and say it's b.s., you quit, to remove you
from the computer, and take your initiations & put them where the sun don't
shine.  Rip your Official Cult ID Card into little pieces and burn it.

Your mind, heart, and soul have been imprisoned way too long.

Gotta go!

Hugs,

Sharon
There are 5 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: "The Karma Seeker"
     From: prometheus_973

2a. Fw: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"
     From: Stefan Meyer
2b. Fw: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"
     From: prometheus_973
2c. Re: "The Karma Seeker"
     From: prometheus_973
2d. Re: "The Karma Seeker"
     From: prometheus_973



Hello Sharon and All,
S.M. sent me a message
and wanted to have his
name removed so that
he couldn't be traced,
but mentioning the book's
title doesn't require
much sleuthing in order
to discover the author's
real name (Google and
discover his Karma-Seeker
site... and he's on FB too!).

Anyway, I removed one
of his posts and was trying
to edit his name out of
another but I must
have done something
wrong and his entire
post was removed.

Did he send you something
too? Maybe he's fishing
for customers because
the EK pond has been
fished out?

BTW- Someone asked to
be able to join ESA and
said they had nice things
to say about Jerry Mulvin.
I approved their membership
out of curiosity, but they
will be monitored until
I can determine if their
status should be changed.

It's funny that Stefan does
"Card Reading" via phone,
yet, claims it's "not psychic."
Apparently the spiel is that
the technique he uses is
"spiritual" or maybe involves
"Quantum Physics." It kind
of reminded of the TV show
The Mentalist where Patrick
Jane states that the psychic
doesn't exist and that selling
it is just a con/scam and
that all he actually does
to 'know things' is to "pay
attention."

I didn't check to see that
Stefan had mentioned E-cult
in his links. For someone
who has the educational
credentials that he has it
makes one wonder about
his inability to connect-
the-dots and cover his
tracks. Being an H.I. for
a long period of time
either makes one more
skeptical or more delusional
via denial.

Of course, one could wonder
about the same in regards to
Klemp. Except, he's in it for
the Prestige, Money, and Power.

ECKists should ask: Why isn't
the ALL KNOWING Mahanta
Aware of his wayward H.I.s?
Otherwise HK would do something
about the problem like he did
with others right? Maybe Klemp
is only "aware" when someone
informs him via a snail-mail
letter like Ford did.

The real reason for Klemp's
inattention to what his H.I.'s
are doing is that he's a fake
prophet and is in it for profit!

But, what's going on with
HK's Secret RESA Police?
Why hasn't this guy been
ferreted out, detained,
questioned, suspended
from Satsang duties and
reported to the ESC? Local
H.I.s via Internet or 'phone
tree' need to be warned
as well! Who's the RESA
now for Massachusetts?
Stefan is in Boston right?

Prometheus

"Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
a name for it yet?

So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
"get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
especially those who've been in it for many years.

"a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????

I think not.


Sharon


prometheus wrote:
>
> Hello Z and All,
> Yes, it is my understanding
> that he joined the E-cult
> in 1971.
>
> [sorry for the reposts]
>
> Was "The Lost Slipper
> of Soul" printed by
> Eckankar?
>
> BTW-It seems that the
> "Kip" character is the
> alter ego of the author.
> So, perhaps, HK isn't
> all that impressive
> of a "Master/Mahanta"
> for this H.I., and I'm
> thinking that he no
> longer buys into Twit's
> plagiarisms and fiction.
>
> IMO, Based upon the
> story line, many of us
> former long-time EK
> leaders could have
> written a similar book.
> And, one could easily
> substitute "Truth Seeker"
> for "Karma Seeker," and
> "ECKankar" for "League."
>
> FYI: I Googled his
> Karma-Seeker website
> where he gives "Card
> Readings" via phone.
> So, why would a person
> still be an H.I. If he
> does Card Readings?
>
> Here's some info on the
> book from Amazon.
>
>
> BOOK DESCRIPTION:
>
> "What is the true test of spirituality?
> Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
> teaching? Or is it having the courage
> to act on one's deepest convictions,
> even in the face of disapproval and
> sanction?
>
> This is the question that confronts
> Kip Morgan.
>
> Kip is a karma seekerâ€"an individual
> committed to testing himself by means
> of his own choices. For such people,
> who are engaged in an experiment
> with unknown forces, there is no way
> to prove that they are fit to discover
> what they seek except by doing it.
>
> As a young man, Kip joins the League,
> one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
> groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
> He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
> which involve cultivating inner experiences
> through contemplation, dreams, and out-
> of-body experiences.
>
> The high point of his experience comes
> with his initiation into the League's inner
> circle, a transcendent event that significantly
> alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
> however, before he discovers how fragile
> this experience is, and how difficult it is
> to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
>
> Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
> beyond the confines of the League.
>
> Eventually, he comes to question the
> group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
> it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
> path.
>
> As he becomes less reliant on the League
> and its members for support and guidance,
> he is torn between his personal vision of
> truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
> puts him on a collision course with the League
> President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
>
> The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
> to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
> reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
> spiritual pathâ€"its highs and lows, its rewards
> and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
> embark on such a path are tested in the areas
> of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
> their spiritual strength, all so that they may
> eventually become active participants in their
> own destiny." [end]



   Prometheus

   "Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
   So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
   readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
   you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
   a name for it yet?

   So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like
Jerry
   Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
   to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And
wander
   for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

   You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
   got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

   It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
   "get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

   I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
   which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
   especially those who've been in it for many years.

   "a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????

   I think not.

   Sharon

   prometheus wrote:
   >
   > Hello Z and All,
   > Yes, it is my understanding
   > that he joined the E-cult
   > in 1971.
   >
   > [sorry for the reposts]
   >
   > Was "The Lost Slipper
   > of Soul" printed by
   > Eckankar?
   >
   > BTW-It seems that the
   > "Kip" character is the
   > alter ego of the author.
   > So, perhaps, HK isn't
   > all that impressive
   > of a "Master/Mahanta"
   > for this H.I., and I'm
   > thinking that he no
   > longer buys into Twit's
   > plagiarisms and fiction.
   >
   > IMO, Based upon the
   > story line, many of us
   > former long-time EK
   > leaders could have
   > written a similar book.
   > And, one could easily
   > substitute "Truth Seeker"
   > for "Karma Seeker," and
   > "ECKankar" for "League."
   >
   > FYI: I Googled his
   > Karma-Seeker website
   > where he gives "Card
   > Readings" via phone.
   > So, why would a person
   > still be an H.I. If he
   > does Card Readings?
   >
   > Here's some info on the
   > book from Amazon.
   >
   >
   > BOOK DESCRIPTION:
   >
   > "What is the true test of spirituality?
   > Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
   > teaching? Or is it having the courage
   > to act on one's deepest convictions,
   > even in the face of disapproval and
   > sanction?
   >
   > This is the question that confronts
   > Kip Morgan.
   >
   > Kip is a karma seeker-an individual
   > committed to testing himself by means
   > of his own choices. For such people,
   > who are engaged in an experiment
   > with unknown forces, there is no way
   > to prove that they are fit to discover
   > what they seek except by doing it.
   >
   > As a young man, Kip joins the League,
   > one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
   > groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
   > He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
   > which involve cultivating inner experiences
   > through contemplation, dreams, and out-
   > of-body experiences.
   >
   > The high point of his experience comes
   > with his initiation into the League's inner
   > circle, a transcendent event that significantly
   > alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
   > however, before he discovers how fragile
   > this experience is, and how difficult it is
   > to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
   >
   > Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
   > beyond the confines of the League.
   >
   > Eventually, he comes to question the
   > group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
   > it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
   > path.
   >
   > As he becomes less reliant on the League
   > and its members for support and guidance,
   > he is torn between his personal vision of
   > truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
   > puts him on a collision course with the League
   > President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
   >
   > The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
   > to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
   > reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
   > spiritual path-its highs and lows, its rewards
   > and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
   > embark on such a path are tested in the areas
   > of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
   > their spiritual strength, all so that they may
   > eventually become active participants in their
   > own destiny." [end]
   >
   >
   >
   > "zephrendhun" wrote:
   > >
   > > Dear Prom and all,
   > >
   Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was
   "The Lost Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know
   the author who is a fine enough chap but I think Stefan is still
   an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the fence', so to speak. Many
   H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the Klempster
   will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become
   the next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will
   probably continue with their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true
   spiritual path and not just the cult it is. Its tough being an
   individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences one
   encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating
   a long time freind is that they really have their doubts about
   this crap's truth as well. Besides after being a none E-cultist
   for a while, I have formed some significant friendships that
   really don't give a s**t what my religious views are. The road
   is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
   delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check
   out Jesus the Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
   > >
   > > Zephrendhun



prometheus wrote:

Hello Stefan and All,
I guess that the problem
that people are having
is Why is it that you still
want to remain an H.I.
when you don't see HK
as the Mahanta nor see
Eckankar as the end all
to spiritual truth.

As far as the mumbo-
jumbo with the "card
reading' if it's not psychic,
which doesn't exist, then,
it's a con/scam. Or,
maybe you've bought
into the delusion as
much as you've, previously,
bought into Eckankar. I'm
sure that astrology works
just as well.

Have you ever read about
the Amazing Randy?
Google him! He's debunked
all sorts of scams similar
to your "Card Reading."

But, yes, many of us have
interesting stories involving
our spiritual search to find
Truth. And many of us have
been involved with EK leadership
positions and the hierarchy.

Why not just come out of
the anti-HK closet and let
Klemp censor you like he
did with Ford Johnson? Maybe
he'll demote you but so what?
IMO-The best thing would
be to have Klemp excommunicate
you!

Prometheus


Stefan Meyer wrote:
Hi, All

I have been glancing at these posts from time to time. I really hate the thought
of having to "defend" myself on this forum. I certainly wouldn't want to get
into some extended debate that went back and forth ad infinitum. But I guess
I'll take one stab at replying to the general tenor of some of these posts, and
then I'll retire from the fray.

The reason I contacted this forum about my book was twofold. First of all--yes,
I'm trying to promote the book. I don't think that wanting to promote a book is
something to be ashamed of. All authors want to promote their books. If you
write a book and then have no desire to promote it, I doubt that anyone's ever
going to read it. So self-promotion comes with the territory of writing, even
more these days when traditional book publishers are becoming marginalized, and
authors often have to assume complete responsibility for their own marketing.

The other reason was that a few weeks ago I just happened to land on this forum,
and I read a post that honestly touched me. I can't find the post anymore, but
basically the writer was saying that, as someone who had left Eckankar, she felt
it had taken years for her to heal from the emotional scars. And I could really
relate to that because I'm going through the same thing. Doesn't matter whether
I'm still a member or not. I don't see this as a matter of just ECKists on one
side, and those who have left Eckankar on the other. There are all sorts of
people who are on the sidelines, still trying to work out these issues for
themselves, and they don't really have anywhere to turn or anyone to talk to.
This could be a forum for healing, but I guess some people are so pissed off as
a result of their experiences that they jump to conclusions and make all sorts
of accusations. I must have dark ulterior motives. I'm angling to become the
next LEM, or start my own cult. No, not really. I've just written a book and I'd
like to find some people interested in reading it. Period.

Regarding some specific comments: 1. I don't have Eckankar on my card reading
website. I have some quotes from Paul Twitchell (at least I assume they're from
Paul--maybe someone will tell me they're plagiarized. That's ok. I just like the
quotes). 2. The card reading thing isn't psychic at all. It's based on a
metaphysical system that anyone can learn for themselves. All you have to know
is how to navigate a few charts and how to interpret the symbolic language of
the cards. If I were psychic, I'd be more than happy to advertise my abilities,
but I'm not. 3. Yes, it doesn't require a whole lot of sleuthing to discover my
name. So I guess I'm really bad at being anonymous, though I tried to be. I
originally wrote the book under the name of the main character to distance
myself from the narrative, but it didn't work. Purely from a marketing
standpoint, I realized that I had to "own" what I'd written. Am I happier that
the previous post was erased? Yes, and thanks to the moderator for that
courtesy. Does that make me a coward? I guess so. But I'm still here, making my
voice heard. And I would hope that people would be a little more generous and
understand that it's difficult for people like me to work through our conflicts.
We may have to write a book to do it. And even writing the book might not be
enough. We might have to get up and defend it. And that could take more courage
than even they think they have. And maybe that deserves at least some measure of
good will.

That's pretty much all I have to say. Go in peace.

Hello Sharon and All,
Yes, I had photos and
wore EK jewelry. It's
a familiar thing for
former Catholics.

I had additional photos
of EK masters taped
to the backside of
the sun visor and
had PT's photo in
plain sight down by
the ashtray. People
would always ask
who it was. I guess
Jesus' photo or Mary's
were well known,
plus, the saints always
had their names on
the photos so no
need to explain who
it was or why it was
there. Well, sometimes
non-Catholics would
ask and thought it
was strange and like
carrying a lucky rabbit's
foot which is closer to
the truth than religionists
can/could ever admit.

I had multiple photos
in every room of the
house and carried photos
on me and had them
on my desk at work.
I was rather nuts.

It was an odd time
when the collapse
of the DG-HK transition
took place in 1984
wasn't it? Many EKists
quite when DG was
booted in such an
uncharitable, unpleasant,
disagreeable, nasty, mean-
spirited, cruel, vindictive,
vicious, spiteful, malicious,
callous, unsympathetic,
unfeeling, uncaring, cold-
hearted; unfriendly,
inconsiderate, insensitive,
hostile; informal bitchy,
catty manner.


It was getting bad at
the start of the Youth
Conference (April 1963)
in St. Louis but later,
during the seminar
had gotten much worse.

BTW-When I saw a
5x7 B&W photo of
DG blowing across
the parking lot after
that really strange
seminar it startled
me. I chased it down
and after picking it
up I thought this was
a confirmation of
Darwin's downfall.


Many months later
we had to meet at
the ECK Center to
listen to Klemp's
talk to the H.I.s.
Was that a July
or October meeting?

We were instructed
to get rid of Darwin's
letters he had written
to some of us and his
photos because they
were dangerous to
have due to their Black
Magic effects upon us.

One 4th commented
to me when she came
into the center, "Well,
if Darwin's photos are
Black Magic why aren't
Harold's?"

I said nothing and thought
she didn't get it, and yet
she made a good point.
White Magic or Black and
who decides what is what?
And is White Magic really
any better? Yes, I think it
is. But Klemp doesn't even
function on that high of
a level.

Prometheus



Sharon wrote:
<giggle> Not only did I keep a photo of Klemp on the TV, I gave one to my son
for his wallet & told him Harold would always protect him, and he should talk to
him, etc. Years later he told me he thought I was nuts. He said he felt like
there was "someone or something" always with him, but it sure as heck wasn't
Klemp, and it had nothing to do with ekult.

Anyway, when I got on the internet the first place I landed was
alt.religion.eckankar, which was quite something back then! An HI told me there
were evil entities on the internet and some eckists had actually experienced
them coming out of the monitor. So, I put a photo of Klemp right on the wall
over the monitor.

Gotta laugh, you know? Reminds me of a silly eckstory, an eckist was riding on
an airplane and "knew" it was going to crash, so she conjured up little
eckanmechanics in her head to tighten all the nuts & bolts. When she debarked,
she noticed the pilot and thought wow, he had *no* idea that the plane was going
to crash but "the eck" saved him!

Oh - while I think of it, Diana - did you ever think about writing a book? It
would be fascinating - and I might even buy one new & full price!!

Hugs,

Sharon

"Non" <eckchains@...> wrote:
>
> And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in
wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so
strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd
mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual
done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have
ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.
>
> Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit
that we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic
philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than
today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any
Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.
>
> Non ; )
>
dianastanley wrote:
> >
> > I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it
between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me
they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying
saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
> > I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
> > plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
> > out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any
statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
> > One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
> > "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
> > When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the
desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
> > if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go
to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a
painting.
> > I am rambling.
> > Diana Stanley

Interesting about the Catholic part. It makes a little more sense the way you
explain it. However, in my gut, I was not able to go that far, and I was also
studying about philosophy, Zen, other New Age stuff, Mysticism, Freud, Jung, Tai
Chi, Yoga..... I just remember feeling more guilty about my doubts and
questions, especially when I went to eck classes. There was something about the
eck books and stuff that was intoxicating (toxic) and I couldn't get it out of
my mind and actually hated it's affect.

Why I had these doubts I think is because I have a very curious nature and I
have always been kind of like the kid that saw that the Emperor isn't wearing
any clothes, but I was also afraid to say anything and would just hold it in. I
think there are a lot of people like this. All they have to do is open up to a
slightly higher state of proof, rather than just taking someones word for it. It
is OK to be a little skeptical about everything. Those who can't let themselves
feel even some slight discomfort about not being dogmatic or knowing for sure,
are really very fearful, and not at all as confident or happy as they pretend to
be. Prick their bubble and quite often you will get a *rage* reaction and get
labeled an agent of kal or some other usual demeaning expression or ignored like
shunning. In the end it is a sickness. Kudos to those of us who have made the
effort to escape.

Cheers!

Non ; D

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
<prometheus_973@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Sharon and All,
Yes, I had photos and
wore EK jewelry. It's
a familiar thing for
former Catholics.

I had additional photos
of EK masters taped
to the backside of
the sun visor and
had PT's photo in
plain sight down by
the ashtray. People
would always ask
who it was. I guess
Jesus' photo or Mary's
were well known,
plus, the saints always
had their names on
the photos so no
need to explain who
it was or why it was
there. Well, sometimes
non-Catholics would
ask and thought it
was strange and like
carrying a lucky rabbit's
foot which is closer to
the truth than religionists
can/could ever admit.

I had multiple photos
in every room of the
house and carried photos
on me and had them
on my desk at work.
I was rather nuts.

It was an odd time
when the collapse
of the DG-HK transition
took place in 1984
wasn't it? Many EKists
quite when DG was
booted in such an
uncharitable, unpleasant,
disagreeable, nasty, mean-
spirited, cruel, vindictive,
vicious, spiteful, malicious,
callous, unsympathetic,
unfeeling, uncaring, cold-
hearted; unfriendly,
inconsiderate, insensitive,
hostile; informal bitchy,
catty manner.


It was getting bad at
the start of the Youth
Conference (April 1963)
in St. Louis but later,
during the seminar
had gotten much worse.

BTW-When I saw a
5x7 B&W photo of
DG blowing across
the parking lot after
that really strange
seminar it startled
me. I chased it down
and after picking it
up I thought this was
a confirmation of
Darwin's downfall.


Many months later
we had to meet at
the ECK Center to
listen to Klemp's
talk to the H.I.s.
Was that a July
or October meeting?

We were instructed
to get rid of Darwin's
letters he had written
to some of us and his
photos because they
were dangerous to
have due to their Black
Magic effects upon us.

One 4th commented
to me when she came
into the center, "Well,
if Darwin's photos are
Black Magic why aren't
Harold's?"

I said nothing and thought
she didn't get it, and yet
she made a good point.
White Magic or Black and
who decides what is what?
And is White Magic really
any better? Yes, I think it
is. But Klemp doesn't even
function on that high of
a level.

Prometheus



Sharon wrote:
<giggle> Not only did I keep a photo of Klemp on the TV, I gave one to my son
for his wallet & told him Harold would always protect him, and he should talk to
him, etc. Years later he told me he thought I was nuts. He said he felt like
there was "someone or something" always with him, but it sure as heck wasn't
Klemp, and it had nothing to do with ekult.

Anyway, when I got on the internet the first place I landed was
alt.religion.eckankar, which was quite something back then! An HI told me there
were evil entities on the internet and some eckists had actually experienced
them coming out of the monitor. So, I put a photo of Klemp right on the wall
over the monitor.

Gotta laugh, you know? Reminds me of a silly eckstory, an eckist was riding on
an airplane and "knew" it was going to crash, so she conjured up little
eckanmechanics in her head to tighten all the nuts & bolts. When she debarked,
she noticed the pilot and thought wow, he had *no* idea that the plane was going
to crash but "the eck" saved him!

Oh - while I think of it, Diana - did you ever think about writing a book? It
would be fascinating - and I might even buy one new & full price!!

Hugs,

Sharon

"Non" <eckchains@...> wrote:
>
> And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in
wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so
strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd
mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual
done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have
ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.
>
> Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit
that we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic
philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than
today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any
Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.
>
> Non ; )
>
dianastanley wrote:
> >
> > I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it
between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me
they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying
saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
> > I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
> > plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
> > out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any
statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
> > One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
> > "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
> > When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the
desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
> > if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go
to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a
painting.
> > I am rambling.
> > Diana Stanley