Klemp should eat a whole bucket of COIN. LOL As well as all of his inner Circle.
That would eksplain why their tummys are so big.

Non ekster ; )

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
<prometheus_973@...> wrote:
>
> "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
> carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
> future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
> both in service and coin."
>
> This was on a donation brochure that was
> recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
> for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
> it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
> Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
> don't? It's always a future promise just like
> all religions hand out.
>
> Here's more, to intimidate ECKists, from
> Klemp's partner in crime Peter Skelsky:
>
> "Dear Friends in ECK,
> This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
> Thanksgiving to each and every one of
> you for all you do everyday, just for love.
> Thank you for your continuing service and
> support to the ECK mission in an ever-
> changing world."
>
> ME: For love of initiations you mean!
> Maybe more initiations is how you and
> Harry could really show "thanks."
>
> PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
> troublesome times, people are searching
> for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
> in their lives."
>
> ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
> them of more money?
>
> PS: "Here at ECKankar we are also experiencing
> the financial realities of these shifting economic
> cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
> to maintain our programs for members and
> spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
> We are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
> requested membership donation at its current
> amount, which has been in effect since January
> 1, 1998."
>
> ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
> donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
> to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
> at the books to see where all of that hard earned
> money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
> and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
> How much money was lost in the Stock Market
> on bad investments?
>
> PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
> 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
> ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
> show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
> freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
> their hearts.'
>
> ME: All preachers, throughout time, have said
> basically the same thing. That is the trap of
> religion! Perhaps Klemp should save some
> printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
> printing his simple-minded and redundant
> books.
>
> PS: "When we give our gifts of COIN and
> SERVICE to ECKankar, we are helping Souls,
> children of God, find their way back home
> to God."
>
> ME: After one joins ECKankar what is given
> to them and what do they expect in return?
> What is given is an EK membership card and
> about 18 years of Old Discourses, and a
> quarterly pub called The Mystic World. Oh,
> there are also initiations that trickle down
> very slowly. However, look at what Klemp
> expects in return--Coin and Service Forever!
>
> PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
> have accepted the GIFT of ECK membership:
>
> * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
> who told me I was spiritually a member. This
> happened after reading a couple of books."
>
> ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
> doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
> fee)?  Are they still "spiritually a member" or
> do they lose initiations? They lose them!
>
> * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
> over twenty years, and it connected with me."
>
> ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
> learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
> It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
> needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
>
> * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
> I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
> lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
> now."
>
> ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! And, if you
> had stayed current with the money your "connection"
> would have continued just like with the phone
> company.
>
> * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
> other members, I felt love."
>
> ME: Any member of any church could attend
> a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
>
> * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
> books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
>
> ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
> wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
> and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
> initiations.
>
> PS: "We all remember how we felt when we
> first came upon and recognized the ECK
> teachings. As members, we know that each
> day the ECK gives us an opportunity to move
> forward spiritually, IF we have the awareness
> to see the GIFT that is being offered."
>
> ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
> initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
> a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
> years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
> gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
> "different."
>
> PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
> Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
> 'God's love is with you all the time. It's up to you
> to recognize it through the hard times and the
> good times."
>
> ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
> the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
> with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
>
> PS: 'God's love is making you more of a spiritual
> being so that you can better understand the
> conditions and situations that other Souls, other
> lights of God, are going through too. in doing
> so, you are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
>
> ME: So now ECKists are able to "serve" other Souls
> and not just SERVE Klemp or ECKankar! They don't
> need HK or a religion for that!
>
> PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
> let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
> and count our blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'if
> we want to keep the blessings in life coming to us,
> we must learn to be grateful for what we have and
> for whatever is given."
>
> ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
> Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
> Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
> Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
> for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
> tough--hang onto that money!
>
> PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the many
> blessings in life is through the act of giving. When
> we respond to a request such as this letter by giving
> back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains us,
> WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to ourselves.
> We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
> OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
>
> ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
> for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
> there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
> way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
> upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
>
> PS: "We deeply appreciate your donations and the love
> and support that you give in so many ways. Thank you
> again for your devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
> the LEM.
>
> ps IF you want information on including ECKankar
> in you will or estate plans, check the designated
> box on the donation form and return it in the
> enclosed envelope. Also, if you would like to make
> a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
> Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
> scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
> donation via the Internet."
>
> ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
> religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
> me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
> even more!
>
> Prometheus
>

Hello Non ekster and All,
Yes, the Mahanta's "love" isn't free! ECKists
have to pay for that gold-gilded staircase at
the ESC (the sin of pride) and for those undisclosed
salaries and perks of Klemp and Company.
But, this is how religious faith and belief work
for "followers" in this world. ECKankar is the
Religion of the L&S of God (KAL) Not SUGMAD!

It's interesting that Klemp's focus is to have
a free volunteer sales staff in as many locations
as he can profit from. There is a two pronged
effort taking place: 1.) Sell EK materials and
collect the yearly membership fees from newer
ECKists; 2.) Entise the longer term members
to buy EK Vahana materials to donate, have
them trained to do missionary (sales) work
and collect more monetary donations from
them while also selling them EK materials for
their own use, and collect membership fees
from them so they can maintain their initiation
status with the belief in the promises of even
"higher" initiations to come someday in the
future. Of course, by this time, reality has become
so distorted that the ego needs to protect itself
(from Truth) even more so!

The Stories: The reason that Klemp pushes the
"EK stories" so much, especially those from Africa,
is because most ECKists don't have stories and
"inner" ekperiences! At one time ECKists weren't
supposed to share these "stories" and dream
experiences because HK didn't want other ECKists
to become envious, or think that they weren't as
advanced. And, how does one explain why a lower
initiate has more vivid and higher plane experiences
than Higher Initiates! Plus, how could Klemp control
what was being said? Thus, HK came out with his
"approved" stories much like PT "approved" certain
articles and items. Therefore, those Vahanas (missionaries)
now have "approved stories" that they can share
with the public. And, these "approved stories" are
also used to give other EK chelas and H.I.s belief
and hope that they too are having "inner" and "outer"
EK experiences even though they don't remember
or see them. However, with religious faith and the
use of the imagination and the ego ECKists can feel
very self-assured that they are on the "highest" road.
After all, if Klemp (the M/LEM, i.e. God) tells them
so, then, it must be the "truth!" What else could it be?

Prometheus


"Non ekster"  wrote:

Klemp should eat a whole bucket of COIN. LOL
As well as all of his inner Circle. That would
eksplain why their tummys are so big.

Non ekster ; )

prometheus  wrote:

The Sell:

> "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
> carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
> future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
> both in service and coin."
>
> This was on a donation brochure that was
> recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
> for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
> it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
> Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
> don't? It's always a future promise just like
> all religions hand out.
>
> Here's more, to intimidate ECKists (via guilt),
> by Klemp's partner in crime Peter Skelskey [PS]:
>
> "Dear Friends in ECK,
> This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
> Thanksgiving to each and every one of
> YOU for all YOU do everyday, just for love.
> Thank YOU for your continuing service and
> support to the ECK mission in an ever-
> changing world."
>
> ME: For love of initiations you mean!
> Maybe more initiations is how you and
> Harry could really show "thanks."
>
> PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
> troublesome times, people are searching
> for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
> in their lives."
>
> ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
> them of more money?
>
> PS: "Here at ECKankar WE are also experiencing
> the financial realities of these shifting economic
> cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
> to maintain our programs for members and
> spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
> WE are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
> requested membership donation at its current
> amount, which has been in effect since January
> 1, 1998."
>
> ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
> donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
> to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
> at the books to see where all of that hard earned
> money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
> and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
> How much money was lost in the Stock Market
> on bad investments?
>
> PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
> 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
> ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
> show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
> freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
> their hearts.'
>
> ME: All preachers and false prophets, throughout
> time, have said basically the same thing. That is
> the trap of religion! Perhaps Klemp should save
> some printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
> printing his simple-minded and redundant books.
>
> PS: "When WE give our gifts of COIN and
> SERVICE to ECKankar, WE are helping Souls,
> children of God, find their way back home
> to God."
>
> ME: If non-ECK Souls are "children of God"
> does this mean HK is the parent, God! And,
> after one joins ECKankar what is given to them
> that is different from what other religions give
> (other than initiations)? What are ECKists told
> to expect in return? Basically, all that happens
> is done with one's own imagination. What ECKists
> are actually given are EK membership cards and
> about 18 years of Old Discourses, a quarterly
> pub called The Mystic World, and those EK initiations
> that trickle down very slowly. However, look at
> what Klemp expects in return--Coin and Service
> Forever!
>
> PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
> have accepted the GIFT of ECK Membership:
>
> * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
> who told me I was spiritually a member. This
> happened after reading a couple of books."
>
> ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
> doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
> fee)? Are they still "spiritually a member" or
> do they lose initiations? They lose them!
>
> * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
> over twenty years, and it connected with me."
>
> ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
> learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
> It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
> needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
>
> * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
> I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
> lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
> now."
>
> ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! Besides, IF
> Klemp did what he claimed this chela would never
> have left in the first place! And, if he had stayed
> current with the membership money his "connection"
> would have continued just like with the phone
> company. The Mahanta's "love" isn't free!
>
> * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
> other members, I felt love."
>
> ME: Any member of any church could attend
> a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
>
> * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
> books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
>
> ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
> wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
> and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
> initiations.
>
> PS: "WE all remember how WE felt when WE
> first came upon and recognized the ECK
> teachings. As members, WE know that each
> day the ECK gives US an opportunity to move
> forward spiritually, IF WE have the awareness
> to see the GIFT that is being offered."
>
> ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
> initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
> a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
> years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
> gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
> "different."
>
> PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
> Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
> 'God's love is with YOU all the time. It's up to YOU
> to recognize it through the hard times and the
> good times."
>
> ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
> the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
> with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
>
> PS: 'God's love is making YOU more of a spiritual
> being so that YOU can better understand the
> conditions and situations that other Souls, other
> lights of God, are going through too. In doing
> so, YOU are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
>
> ME: "Other lights of God?" So now ECKists are able
> to "serve" other Souls and not just SERVE Klemp or
> ECKankar! They don't need HK or a religion for that!
>
> PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
> let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
> and count OUR blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'IF
> WE want to keep the blessings in life coming to US,
> WE must learn to be grateful for what WE have and
> for whatever is given."
>
> ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
> Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
> Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
> Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
> for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
> tough--hang onto that money!
>
> PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the MANY
> BLESSINGS in life is through the ACT of GIVING. When
> WE respond to a request such as this letter by giving
> back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains US,
> WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to Ourselves.
> We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
> OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
>
> ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
> for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
> there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
> way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
> upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
>
> PS: "WE deeply appreciate YOUR donations and the love
> and support that YOU give in so many ways. Thank YOU
> again for YOUR devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
> the LEM. With love in ECK, Peter Skelskey President"
>
> "ps IF YOU want information on including ECKankar
> in YOU will or estate plans, check the designated
> box on the donation form and return it in the
> enclosed envelope. Also, IF YOU would like to make
> a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
> Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
> scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
> donation via the Internet."
>
> ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
> religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
> me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
> even more!
>
> Prometheus
>

I noticed that Klemp did another
flagrant Bait and Switch. In the
following donation request Klemp
has Skelskey to, also, mention
an increase in membership fees.

But, what do ECKists get with
their memberships? The claim,
on ECKankar.org, is that the
chela gets "Advanced Spiritual
Study with Membership." Where's
the guarantee for Advanced
Spiritual "Growth?" But, we all
know that this is an "implied"
result and is "conditional" with
a paid annual membership, as
well as, a myriad of other Catch-22
conditions.

In the following Klemp mentions
the difference between those who
just read the EK books and HU and
those who pay the Membership Fee.

http://cache.eckankar.org/windows/A-Larger-Room.wmv

Skelskey: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual
seekers have accepted the GIFT of ECK
Membership:

* In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
who told me I was spiritually a member. This
happened after reading a couple of books."

BTW- Why do ECKists have to pay for a "Gift?"
This is another Bait and Switch (KAL technique)
and not a real "gift" is it? There shouldn't be
"strings attached" to a "gift!"

And, isn't this odd (or not) that in this Donation
Letter Klemp (the Mahanta) is affirming, in
print, that this dream, by a Non-ECKist, meant
that he was "spiritually a member" after only
"reading a couple of books." No Membership
Fee was needed! As I said, this is Bait and Switch!
He (the Mahanta, Klemp) giveth then taketh
away! Now you see it, now you don't! it's like
Magic... Black Magic!

Prometheus

prometheus wrote:
>
> Hello Non ekster and All,
> Yes, the Mahanta's "love" isn't free! ECKists
> have to pay for that gold-gilded staircase at
> the ESC (the sin of pride) and for those undisclosed
> salaries and perks of Klemp and Company.
> But, this is how religious faith and belief work
> for "followers" in this world. ECKankar is the
> Religion of the L&S of God (KAL) Not SUGMAD!
>
> It's interesting that Klemp's focus is to have
> a free volunteer sales staff in as many locations
> as he can profit from. There is a two pronged
> effort taking place: 1.) Sell EK materials and
> collect the yearly membership fees from newer
> ECKists; 2.) Entise the longer term members
> to buy EK Vahana materials to donate, have
> them trained to do missionary (sales) work
> and collect more monetary donations from
> them while also selling them EK materials for
> their own use, and collect membership fees
> from them so they can maintain their initiation
> status with the belief in the promises of even
> "higher" initiations to come someday in the
> future. Of course, by this time, reality has become
> so distorted that the ego needs to protect itself
> (from Truth) even more so!
>
> The Stories: The reason that Klemp pushes the
> "EK stories" so much, especially those from Africa,
> is because most ECKists don't have stories and
> "inner" ekperiences! At one time ECKists weren't
> supposed to share these "stories" and dream
> experiences because HK didn't want other ECKists
> to become envious, or think that they weren't as
> advanced. And, how does one explain why a lower
> initiate has more vivid and higher plane experiences
> than Higher Initiates! Plus, how could Klemp control
> what was being said? Thus, HK came out with his
> "approved" stories much like PT "approved" certain
> articles and items. Therefore, those Vahanas (missionaries)
> now have "approved stories" that they can share
> with the public. And, these "approved stories" are
> also used to give other EK chelas and H.I.s belief
> and hope that they too are having "inner" and "outer"
> EK experiences even though they don't remember
> or see them. However, with religious faith and the
> use of the imagination and the ego ECKists can feel
> very self-assured that they are on the "highest" road.
> After all, if Klemp (the M/LEM, i.e. God) tells them
> so, then, it must be the "truth!" What else could it be?
>
> Prometheus
>
>
> "Non ekster" wrote:
>
> Klemp should eat a whole bucket of COIN. LOL
> As well as all of his inner Circle. That would
> eksplain why their tummys are so big.
>
> Non ekster ; )
>
> prometheus wrote:
>
> The Sell:
>
> > "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
> > carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
> > future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
> > both in service and coin."
> >
> > This was on a donation brochure that was
> > recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
> > for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
> > it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
> > Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
> > don't? It's always a future promise just like
> > all religions hand out.
> >
> > Here's more, to intimidate ECKists (via guilt),
> > by Klemp's partner in crime Peter Skelskey [PS]:
> >
> > "Dear Friends in ECK,
> > This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
> > Thanksgiving to each and every one of
> > YOU for all YOU do everyday, just for love.
> > Thank YOU for your continuing service and
> > support to the ECK mission in an ever-
> > changing world."
> >
> > ME: For love of initiations you mean!
> > Maybe more initiations is how you and
> > Harry could really show "thanks."
> >
> > PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
> > troublesome times, people are searching
> > for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
> > in their lives."
> >
> > ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
> > them of more money?
> >
> > PS: "Here at ECKankar WE are also experiencing
> > the financial realities of these shifting economic
> > cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
> > to maintain our programs for members and
> > spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
> > WE are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
> > requested membership donation at its current
> > amount, which has been in effect since January
> > 1, 1998."
> >
> > ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
> > donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
> > to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
> > at the books to see where all of that hard earned
> > money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
> > and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
> > How much money was lost in the Stock Market
> > on bad investments?
> >
> > PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
> > 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
> > ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
> > show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
> > freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
> > their hearts.'
> >
> > ME: All preachers and false prophets, throughout
> > time, have said basically the same thing. That is
> > the trap of religion! Perhaps Klemp should save
> > some printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
> > printing his simple-minded and redundant books.
> >
> > PS: "When WE give our gifts of COIN and
> > SERVICE to ECKankar, WE are helping Souls,
> > children of God, find their way back home
> > to God."
> >
> > ME: If non-ECK Souls are "children of God"
> > does this mean HK is the parent, God! And,
> > after one joins ECKankar what is given to them
> > that is different from what other religions give
> > (other than initiations)? What are ECKists told
> > to expect in return? Basically, all that happens
> > is done with one's own imagination. What ECKists
> > are actually given are EK membership cards and
> > about 18 years of Old Discourses, a quarterly
> > pub called The Mystic World, and those EK initiations
> > that trickle down very slowly. However, look at
> > what Klemp expects in return--Coin and Service
> > Forever!
> >
> > PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
> > have accepted the GIFT of ECK Membership:
> >
> > * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
> > who told me I was spiritually a member. This
> > happened after reading a couple of books."
> >
> > ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
> > doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
> > fee)? Are they still "spiritually a member" or
> > do they lose initiations? They lose them!
> >
> > * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
> > over twenty years, and it connected with me."
> >
> > ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
> > learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
> > It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
> > needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
> >
> > * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
> > I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
> > lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
> > now."
> >
> > ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! Besides, IF
> > Klemp did what he claimed this chela would never
> > have left in the first place! And, if he had stayed
> > current with the membership money his "connection"
> > would have continued just like with the phone
> > company. The Mahanta's "love" isn't free!
> >
> > * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
> > other members, I felt love."
> >
> > ME: Any member of any church could attend
> > a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
> >
> > * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
> > books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
> >
> > ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
> > wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
> > and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
> > initiations.
> >
> > PS: "WE all remember how WE felt when WE
> > first came upon and recognized the ECK
> > teachings. As members, WE know that each
> > day the ECK gives US an opportunity to move
> > forward spiritually, IF WE have the awareness
> > to see the GIFT that is being offered."
> >
> > ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
> > initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
> > a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
> > years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
> > gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
> > "different."
> >
> > PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
> > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
> > 'God's love is with YOU all the time. It's up to YOU
> > to recognize it through the hard times and the
> > good times."
> >
> > ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
> > the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
> > with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
> >
> > PS: 'God's love is making YOU more of a spiritual
> > being so that YOU can better understand the
> > conditions and situations that other Souls, other
> > lights of God, are going through too. In doing
> > so, YOU are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
> >
> > ME: "Other lights of God?" So now ECKists are able
> > to "serve" other Souls and not just SERVE Klemp or
> > ECKankar! They don't need HK or a religion for that!
> >
> > PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
> > let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
> > and count OUR blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'IF
> > WE want to keep the blessings in life coming to US,
> > WE must learn to be grateful for what WE have and
> > for whatever is given."
> >
> > ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
> > Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
> > Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
> > Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
> > for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
> > tough--hang onto that money!
> >
> > PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the MANY
> > BLESSINGS in life is through the ACT of GIVING. When
> > WE respond to a request such as this letter by giving
> > back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains US,
> > WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to Ourselves.
> > We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
> > OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
> >
> > ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
> > for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
> > there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
> > way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
> > upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
> >
> > PS: "WE deeply appreciate YOUR donations and the love
> > and support that YOU give in so many ways. Thank YOU
> > again for YOUR devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
> > the LEM. With love in ECK, Peter Skelskey President"
> >
> > "ps IF YOU want information on including ECKankar
> > in YOU will or estate plans, check the designated
> > box on the donation form and return it in the
> > enclosed envelope. Also, IF YOU would like to make
> > a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
> > Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
> > scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
> > donation via the Internet."
> >
> > ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
> > religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
> > me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
> > even more!
> >
> > Prometheus
> >

Here are some of Klemp's latest, but out-dated
(and recycled) witticisms and double speak
from the recent EK Seminar held at the Hilton
Hotel in Minneapolis.

BTW-These comments are from the notes
taken by a H.I. who attended the seminar.
I have done minimal editing, mostly, for the
sake of conciseness.

THE TALK:

[Klemp]: He began by commenting on the
bright stage lights as he shaded his eyes with
his hand in order to look out at the audience.
"I'm recognizing you and enjoying you," he said.

Harry was wearing a new dark blue suit, which
seemed a little too large on him, as if he's lost
some weight. He was wearing a periwinkle blue
shirt with a striped tie. His hair seemed a softer
gray all over.

[Klemp]: Welcomed the Guests and the Youth,
remarking that he was glad that we had come,
since travel is difficult for many people, with
the economic downturn. The so-called experts
don't really know what's going on, he cautioned.
After all, they didn't seem to see this recession
coming. He said that right now, overall, there
is 8% unemployment in the U.S. While this is high,
he recalled that unemployment during the Great
Depression (after the stock market crash on
October 29, 1929) was much higher, 30% "When
your neighbor's out of work, it's a recession.
When you're out of work, it's a depression,"
he said with a smile.

Klemp began by answering four questions
that the EK Youth had prepared for him.

Question 1: I've begun to take my connection
with the Mahanta for granted. How can I keep
the inner fire alive?

[Klemp]: Life keeps us on track.
Mind wants to go back to a comfortable
place, and when we allow this to happen,
things begin to go wrong. Then we ask
the Mahanta for help. The Mahanta says,
"Pay your dues and get yourself back on
track. Put your attention where it belongs."
Harry noted that for most people there is
a pattern of being on track and then falling
away, followed by getting on track again.
Don't worry, says Harry, the Mahanta
is working with you.

Question 2: What role does humor play
in spirituality?

[Klemp]: Humor is not the same as wit,
sarcasm, or comedy. Wit and sarcasm have
a sharp bite. Humor opens the heart but
doesn't put other people down. Spiritual
humor has a spiritual content behind the
laugh. Harold said that before EMF
radiations were a problem for himself
and Joan, they used to watch TV in the
evening for entertainment. They were
particularly fond of two British comedies,
"Are You Being Served?" and "Fawlty Towers."
The first was about a group of salespeople
in a British department store, where each
of them had a foible that led to amusing
situations. The second was about a hotel
that was run by a husband and wife.

Question 3: What can stimulate us to
be grateful for what we have when life
is hard?

[Klemp]: Do your Spiritual Exercises and
sing HU or other spiritually charged words.
HU can help in times of danger, misunderstandings
and illness. He says he gets lots of letters
from people telling him how singing HU
helps people.

Question 4: How to I enjoy being with
friends when their beliefs differ from mine?
My friends include a smoker, a gossip,
and an atheist.

[Klemp]: Why settle for friends like this
(half joking)? The Eck Youth are out there
engaging with people who don't think like
Eckists do, and that this takes courage.
A lot of people fall by the wayside along
the spiritual path. He cautioned the youth
to beware of second-hand smoke effects,
and advised the youth to ask their friends
not to smoke indoors. He said that if the
smoker doesn't do this for a friend, then
he isn't much of a friend.

Klemp recalled that a friend of his from out
of town, a non-Eckist, wanted to come and
visit him, but Harry had to tell him that he was
too sensitive to smoke to allow the visit.

HK also recalled playing carom billiards
(a game played on a table without pockets)
when he began to feel dizzy from the smoke.
As an aside, he told the audience that IF the
other player does "test shots" before playing
a game, don't bet any money on the outcome,
because the player probably knows what he
is doing! As for gossip, Harry says that gossip
is like a skunk spraying their stink around.
Don't listen to gossip - it will pull you down,
he advised. Instead, listen to the Inner Master.
[End of Part 1]

Prometheus

Hello All,
I thought that I'd give my opinions and
perspectives of Klemp's talk. When analyzing
it directly, or reading between the lines,
HK's "current" discussion subjects and
choice of words tell volumes about his
personality, honesty, and mental health.

###################################
Here are some of Klemp's latest, but out-dated
(and recycled) witticisms and double speak
from the recent EK Seminar held at the Hilton
Hotel in Minneapolis.

BTW-These comments are from the notes
taken by a H.I. who attended the seminar.
I have done minimal editing, mostly, for the
sake of conciseness.

THE TALK:

[Klemp]: He began by commenting on the
bright stage lights as he shaded his eyes with
his hand in order to look out at the audience.
"I'm recognizing you and enjoying you," he said.

[ME]: What an odd comment! He just got on
stage. Maybe he's enjoying the applause and
the reception he just received from the smaller
crowd. Vain isn't he... to enjoy the applause
and the smiling faces from his blind followers!

Harry was wearing a new dark blue suit, which
seemed a little too large on him, as if he's lost
some weight. He was wearing a periwinkle blue
shirt with a striped tie. His hair seemed a softer
gray all over.

[ME]: I really don't know if this was a "new"
suit. Why would a person buy a "new suit"
that was too big? Maybe Klemp has lost weight,
or maybe he's trying to puff himself out to
look bigger?

[Klemp]: Welcomed the Guests and the Youth,
remarking that he was glad that we had come,
since travel is difficult for many people, with
the economic downturn. The so-called experts
don't really know what's going on, he cautioned.
After all, they didn't seem to see this recession
coming. He said that right now, overall, there
is 8% unemployment in the U.S. While this is high,
he recalled that unemployment during the Great
Depression (after the stock market crash on
October 29, 1929) was much higher, 30% "When
your neighbor's out of work, it's a recession.
When you're out of work, it's a depression,"
he said with a smile.

[ME]: So why does Klemp have Eckists travel
to see him when times are tough? Why not
just record and broadcast the talk/seminar
in a studio at the ESC? BTW- Klemp, another
"expert," is a little low with that 8%. The real
rate is 9%. HK should use more accurate sources.
And, we don't need to have a 30% unemployment
rate for it to be classified as a depression.
HK, the EK "Modern Prophet" should go to
robertreich.blogspot.com. Why didn't Klemp
see it coming? And what's with that smile?


Klemp began by answering four questions
that the EK Youth had prepared for him.

Question 1: I've begun to take my connection
with the Mahanta for granted. How can I keep
the inner fire alive?

[Klemp]: Life keeps us on track.
Mind wants to go back to a comfortable
place, and when we allow this to happen,
things begin to go wrong. Then we ask
the Mahanta for help. The Mahanta says,
"Pay your dues and get yourself back on
track. Put your attention where it belongs."
Harry noted that for most people there is
a pattern of being on track and then falling
away, followed by getting on track again.
Don't worry, says Harry, the Mahanta
is working with you.

[ME]: Wait! Does Klemp ask (the Mahanta),
himself, for help or does he ask the ECK?
ECKists should ask the ECK (the Holy Spirit)
for help instead of asking a God/man (Klemp)
whose approved answer doesn't come except
via snail mail.

Question 2: What role does humor play
in spirituality?

[Klemp]: Humor is not the same as wit,
sarcasm, or comedy. Wit and sarcasm have
a sharp bite. Humor opens the heart but
doesn't put other people down. Spiritual
humor has a spiritual content behind the
laugh.

[ME]: Comedy can be a combination
of humor, wit, and sarcasm. John Stewart,
of "The Daily Show," uses sarcasm and
wit for humor. ECKists take Klemp, and
his opinions, too seriously! He's like the
Pope of Chanhassen/Eden Prairie!

[Klemp]: Harold said that before EMF
radiations were a problem for himself
and Joan, they used to watch TV in the
evening for entertainment. They were
particularly fond of two British comedies,
"Are You Being Served?" and "Fawlty Towers."
The first was about a group of salespeople
in a British department store, where each
of them had a foible that led to amusing
situations. The second was about a hotel
that was run by a husband and wife.

[ME]: JOAN has EMF "problems" too!
It must be contagious! Or, it's contagious
when you're a 9th living with a 14th who
has EMF "problems." After all, how would
it look if a highly evolved/sensitive 9th
Initiate didn't have EMF problems too!
BTW- Those two British sitcoms are old
news. I started watching them when Harry
first mentioned them years ago. They were
okay, but British humour is rather dry...
like Harry.


Question 3: What can stimulate us to
be grateful for what we have when life
is hard?

[Klemp]: Do your Spiritual Exercises and
sing HU or other spiritually charged words.
HU can help in times of danger, misunderstandings
and illness. He says he gets lots of letters
from people telling him how singing HU
helps people.

[ME]: Again, Klemp states the obvious.
Did he really have to have a seminar to
repeat what has been said over and over
time and again! But, if HU helps so much
then why does one need a M/LEM, especially,
when he just repeats Twitchell's Shariyats?

Question 4: How to I enjoy being with
friends when their beliefs differ from mine?
My friends include a smoker, a gossip,
and an atheist.

[Klemp]: Why settle for friends like this
(half joking)? The Eck Youth are out there
engaging with people who don't think like
Eckists do, and that this takes courage.
A lot of people fall by the wayside along
the spiritual path. He cautioned the youth
to beware of second-hand smoke effects,
and advised the youth to ask their friends
not to smoke indoors. He said that if the
smoker doesn't do this for a friend, then
he isn't much of a friend.

[ME]: Since Klemp was "half joking" wasn't
he, also, being sarcastic! HK's a hypocrite!

Klemp recalled that a friend of his from out
of town, a non-Eckist, wanted to come and
visit him, but Harry had to tell him that he
was too sensitive to smoke to allow the visit.

[ME]: I have friends that smoke and when
they visit me they go outside to smoke.
Klemp is very insensitive to others isn't he!
There's just no empathy with Klemp. He's
way too judgmental!

HK also recalled playing carom billiards
(a game played on a table without pockets)
when he began to feel dizzy from the smoke.
As an aside, he told the audience that IF the
other player does "test shots" before playing
a game, don't bet any money on the outcome,
because the player probably knows what he
is doing!

[ME]: I'm thinking that Klemp is just "dizzy"
all of the time! If it's not smoke, it's EMF, or
whatever! So, at one time (ten years ago?)
Klemp went someplace to play billards and
the people there smoked. Why not just leave?
BTW- The "good" players don't do "test shots"
or even "trick shots" before playing a game.
They don't want to tip you off as to how "good"
they might be, however, they will have a nice
custom made pool cue.

[Klemp]: As for gossip, Harry says that gossip
is like a skunk spraying their stink around.
Don't listen to gossip - it will pull you down,
he advised. Instead, listen to the Inner Master.

[ME]: Klemp doesn't want his chelas to discuss
his nonsense, Peter's, Joan's, or his RESAs'
informally with one another. Thus, to do so
is "gossip" and is, spiritually, bad karma.
However, one can only "imagine" what the
"Inner Master" has to say! Catch-22!

[End of Part 1]

Prometheus

Klemp should be called "The Sickly Eck Master". lol I guess the eck chelas who
think they are so special, should expect the same fate?

"[Klemp]: Harold said that before EMF
radiations were a problem for himself
and Joan, they used to watch TV in the
evening for entertainment. They were
particularly fond of two British comedies,
"Are You Being Served?" and "Fawlty Towers."
The first was about a group of salespeople
in a British department store, where each
of them had a foible that led to amusing
situations. The second was about a hotel
that was run by a husband and wife.

[ME]: JOAN has EMF "problems" too!
It must be contagious! Or, it's contagious
when you're a 9th living with a 14th who
has EMF "problems." After all, how would
it look if a highly evolved/sensitive 9th
Initiate didn't have EMF problems too!
BTW- Those two British sitcoms are old
news. I started watching them when Harry
first mentioned them years ago. They were
okay, but British humour is rather dry...
like Harry."


Non eckster ; )

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
<prometheus_973@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> I thought that I'd give my opinions and
> perspectives of Klemp's talk. When analyzing
> it directly, or reading between the lines,
> HK's "current" discussion subjects and
> choice of words tell volumes about his
> personality, honesty, and mental health.
>
> ###################################
> Here are some of Klemp's latest, but out-dated
> (and recycled) witticisms and double speak
> from the recent EK Seminar held at the Hilton
> Hotel in Minneapolis.
>
> BTW-These comments are from the notes
> taken by a H.I. who attended the seminar.
> I have done minimal editing, mostly, for the
> sake of conciseness.
>
> THE TALK:
>
> [Klemp]: He began by commenting on the
> bright stage lights as he shaded his eyes with
> his hand in order to look out at the audience.
> "I'm recognizing you and enjoying you," he said.
>
> [ME]: What an odd comment! He just got on
> stage. Maybe he's enjoying the applause and
> the reception he just received from the smaller
> crowd. Vain isn't he... to enjoy the applause
> and the smiling faces from his blind followers!
>
> Harry was wearing a new dark blue suit, which
> seemed a little too large on him, as if he's lost
> some weight. He was wearing a periwinkle blue
> shirt with a striped tie. His hair seemed a softer
> gray all over.
>
> [ME]: I really don't know if this was a "new"
> suit. Why would a person buy a "new suit"
> that was too big? Maybe Klemp has lost weight,
> or maybe he's trying to puff himself out to
> look bigger?
>
> [Klemp]: Welcomed the Guests and the Youth,
> remarking that he was glad that we had come,
> since travel is difficult for many people, with
> the economic downturn. The so-called experts
> don't really know what's going on, he cautioned.
> After all, they didn't seem to see this recession
> coming. He said that right now, overall, there
> is 8% unemployment in the U.S. While this is high,
> he recalled that unemployment during the Great
> Depression (after the stock market crash on
> October 29, 1929) was much higher, 30% "When
> your neighbor's out of work, it's a recession.
> When you're out of work, it's a depression,"
> he said with a smile.
>
> [ME]: So why does Klemp have Eckists travel
> to see him when times are tough? Why not
> just record and broadcast the talk/seminar
> in a studio at the ESC? BTW- Klemp, another
> "expert," is a little low with that 8%. The real
> rate is 9%. HK should use more accurate sources.
> And, we don't need to have a 30% unemployment
> rate for it to be classified as a depression.
> HK, the EK "Modern Prophet" should go to
> robertreich.blogspot.com. Why didn't Klemp
> see it coming? And what's with that smile?
>
>
> Klemp began by answering four questions
> that the EK Youth had prepared for him.
>
> Question 1: I've begun to take my connection
> with the Mahanta for granted. How can I keep
> the inner fire alive?
>
> [Klemp]: Life keeps us on track.
> Mind wants to go back to a comfortable
> place, and when we allow this to happen,
> things begin to go wrong. Then we ask
> the Mahanta for help. The Mahanta says,
> "Pay your dues and get yourself back on
> track. Put your attention where it belongs."
> Harry noted that for most people there is
> a pattern of being on track and then falling
> away, followed by getting on track again.
> Don't worry, says Harry, the Mahanta
> is working with you.
>
> [ME]: Wait! Does Klemp ask (the Mahanta),
> himself, for help or does he ask the ECK?
> ECKists should ask the ECK (the Holy Spirit)
> for help instead of asking a God/man (Klemp)
> whose approved answer doesn't come except
> via snail mail.
>
> Question 2: What role does humor play
> in spirituality?
>
> [Klemp]: Humor is not the same as wit,
> sarcasm, or comedy. Wit and sarcasm have
> a sharp bite. Humor opens the heart but
> doesn't put other people down. Spiritual
> humor has a spiritual content behind the
> laugh.
>
> [ME]: Comedy can be a combination
> of humor, wit, and sarcasm. John Stewart,
> of "The Daily Show," uses sarcasm and
> wit for humor. ECKists take Klemp, and
> his opinions, too seriously! He's like the
> Pope of Chanhassen/Eden Prairie!
>
> [Klemp]: Harold said that before EMF
> radiations were a problem for himself
> and Joan, they used to watch TV in the
> evening for entertainment. They were
> particularly fond of two British comedies,
> "Are You Being Served?" and "Fawlty Towers."
> The first was about a group of salespeople
> in a British department store, where each
> of them had a foible that led to amusing
> situations. The second was about a hotel
> that was run by a husband and wife.
>
> [ME]: JOAN has EMF "problems" too!
> It must be contagious! Or, it's contagious
> when you're a 9th living with a 14th who
> has EMF "problems." After all, how would
> it look if a highly evolved/sensitive 9th
> Initiate didn't have EMF problems too!
> BTW- Those two British sitcoms are old
> news. I started watching them when Harry
> first mentioned them years ago. They were
> okay, but British humour is rather dry...
> like Harry.
>
>
> Question 3: What can stimulate us to
> be grateful for what we have when life
> is hard?
>
> [Klemp]: Do your Spiritual Exercises and
> sing HU or other spiritually charged words.
> HU can help in times of danger, misunderstandings
> and illness. He says he gets lots of letters
> from people telling him how singing HU
> helps people.
>
> [ME]: Again, Klemp states the obvious.
> Did he really have to have a seminar to
> repeat what has been said over and over
> time and again! But, if HU helps so much
> then why does one need a M/LEM, especially,
> when he just repeats Twitchell's Shariyats?
>
> Question 4: How to I enjoy being with
> friends when their beliefs differ from mine?
> My friends include a smoker, a gossip,
> and an atheist.
>
> [Klemp]: Why settle for friends like this
> (half joking)? The Eck Youth are out there
> engaging with people who don't think like
> Eckists do, and that this takes courage.
> A lot of people fall by the wayside along
> the spiritual path. He cautioned the youth
> to beware of second-hand smoke effects,
> and advised the youth to ask their friends
> not to smoke indoors. He said that if the
> smoker doesn't do this for a friend, then
> he isn't much of a friend.
>
> [ME]: Since Klemp was "half joking" wasn't
> he, also, being sarcastic! HK's a hypocrite!
>
> Klemp recalled that a friend of his from out
> of town, a non-Eckist, wanted to come and
> visit him, but Harry had to tell him that he
> was too sensitive to smoke to allow the visit.
>
> [ME]: I have friends that smoke and when
> they visit me they go outside to smoke.
> Klemp is very insensitive to others isn't he!
> There's just no empathy with Klemp. He's
> way too judgmental!
>
> HK also recalled playing carom billiards
> (a game played on a table without pockets)
> when he began to feel dizzy from the smoke.
> As an aside, he told the audience that IF the
> other player does "test shots" before playing
> a game, don't bet any money on the outcome,
> because the player probably knows what he
> is doing!
>
> [ME]: I'm thinking that Klemp is just "dizzy"
> all of the time! If it's not smoke, it's EMF, or
> whatever! So, at one time (ten years ago?)
> Klemp went someplace to play billards and
> the people there smoked. Why not just leave?
> BTW- The "good" players don't do "test shots"
> or even "trick shots" before playing a game.
> They don't want to tip you off as to how "good"
> they might be, however, they will have a nice
> custom made pool cue.
>
> [Klemp]: As for gossip, Harry says that gossip
> is like a skunk spraying their stink around.
> Don't listen to gossip - it will pull you down,
> he advised. Instead, listen to the Inner Master.
>
> [ME]: Klemp doesn't want his chelas to discuss
> his nonsense, Peter's, Joan's, or his RESAs'
> informally with one another. Thus, to do so
> is "gossip" and is, spiritually, bad karma.
> However, one can only "imagine" what the
> "Inner Master" has to say! Catch-22!
>
> [End of Part 1]
>
> Prometheus
>

I was taking a second look at Klemp's
recent message to his chelas and saw
where he contradicted himself... again!

[Klemp]: "Humor is not the same as wit,
sarcasm, or comedy. Wit and sarcasm have
a sharp bite. Humor opens the heart but
doesn't put other people down. Spiritual
humor has a spiritual content behind the
laugh."

[ME]: So where's the "humor" and "spiritual
content" to HK's comments listed below?
And, what's so funny about a depression
that causes Klemp to smile, especially,
when Eckankar is sending out donation
letters acknowledging that there's a problem
with not having enough money? Why didn't
the so-called expert of experts the Mahanta/
LEM & "Modern Prophet" see the depression
coming? If he had would he still have blown
the extra money on those gilded staircases
at the ESC? Probably! It was Vanity, on HK's
part, to have had them put in anyway!

[Klemp]: "The so-called experts don't really
know what's going on," he cautioned. "After
all, they didn't seem to see this recession
coming... 'When your neighbor's out of work,
it's a recession. When you're out of work,
it's a depression,' he said with a smile.

[Eck Youth Q#4] "My friends include a smoker,
a gossip, and an atheist."

[Klemp]: "Why settle for friends like this
(half joking)."

[ME}: Isn't Klemp "putting down" the friends
of this EK Youth with the "sharp bite" of his
"sarcasm and wit?"

[Klemp]: "As for gossip, it is like a skunk
spraying their stink around. Don't listen
to gossip - it will pull you down."

Prometheus


Prometheus wrote:

I thought that I'd give my opinions and
perspectives of Klemp's talk. When analyzing
it directly, or reading between the lines,
HK's "current" discussion subjects and
choice of words tell volumes about his
personality, honesty, and mental health.

###################################
Here are some of Klemp's latest, but out-dated
(and recycled) witticisms and double speak
from the recent EK Seminar held at the Hilton
Hotel in Minneapolis.

BTW-These comments are from the notes
taken by a H.I. who attended the seminar.
I have done minimal editing, mostly, for the
sake of conciseness.

THE TALK:

[Klemp]: He began by commenting on the
bright stage lights as he shaded his eyes with
his hand in order to look out at the audience.
"I'm recognizing you and enjoying you," he said.

[ME]: What an odd comment! He just got on
stage. Maybe he's enjoying the applause and
the reception he just received from the smaller
crowd. Vain isn't he... to enjoy the applause
and the smiling faces from his blind followers!

Harry was wearing a new dark blue suit, which
seemed a little too large on him, as if he's lost
some weight. He was wearing a periwinkle blue
shirt with a striped tie. His hair seemed a softer
gray all over.

[ME]: I really don't know if this was a "new"
suit. Why would a person buy a "new suit"
that was too big? Maybe Klemp has lost weight,
or maybe he's trying to puff himself out to
look bigger?

[Klemp]: Welcomed the Guests and the Youth,
remarking that he was glad that we had come,
since travel is difficult for many people, with
the economic downturn. The so-called experts
don't really know what's going on, he cautioned.
After all, they didn't seem to see this recession
coming. He said that right now, overall, there
is 8% unemployment in the U.S. While this is high,
he recalled that unemployment during the Great
Depression (after the stock market crash on
October 29, 1929) was much higher, 30% "When
your neighbor's out of work, it's a recession.
When you're out of work, it's a depression,"
he said with a smile.

[ME]: So why does Klemp have Eckists travel
to see him when times are tough? Why not
just record and broadcast the talk/seminar
in a studio at the ESC? BTW- Klemp, another
"expert," is a little low with that 8%. The real
rate is 9%. HK should use more accurate sources.
And, we don't need to have a 30% unemployment
rate for it to be classified as a depression.
HK, the EK "Modern Prophet" should go to
robertreich.blogspot.com. Why didn't Klemp
see it coming? And what's with that smile?


Klemp began by answering four questions
that the EK Youth had prepared for him.

Question 1: I've begun to take my connection
with the Mahanta for granted. How can I keep
the inner fire alive?

[Klemp]: Life keeps us on track.
Mind wants to go back to a comfortable
place, and when we allow this to happen,
things begin to go wrong. Then we ask
the Mahanta for help. The Mahanta says,
"Pay your dues and get yourself back on
track. Put your attention where it belongs."
Harry noted that for most people there is
a pattern of being on track and then falling
away, followed by getting on track again.
Don't worry, says Harry, the Mahanta
is working with you.

[ME]: Wait! Does Klemp ask (the Mahanta),
himself, for help or does he ask the ECK?
ECKists should ask the ECK (the Holy Spirit)
for help instead of asking a God/man (Klemp)
whose approved answer doesn't come except
via snail mail.

Question 2: What role does humor play
in spirituality?

[Klemp]: Humor is not the same as wit,
sarcasm, or comedy. Wit and sarcasm have
a sharp bite. Humor opens the heart but
doesn't put other people down. Spiritual
humor has a spiritual content behind the
laugh.

[ME]: Comedy can be a combination
of humor, wit, and sarcasm. John Stewart,
of "The Daily Show," uses sarcasm and
wit for humor. ECKists take Klemp, and
his opinions, too seriously! He's like the
Pope of Chanhassen/Eden Prairie!

[Klemp]: Harold said that before EMF
radiations were a problem for himself
and Joan, they used to watch TV in the
evening for entertainment. They were
particularly fond of two British comedies,
"Are You Being Served?" and "Fawlty Towers."
The first was about a group of salespeople
in a British department store, where each
of them had a foible that led to amusing
situations. The second was about a hotel
that was run by a husband and wife.

[ME]: JOAN has EMF "problems" too!
It must be contagious! Or, it's contagious
when you're a 9th living with a 14th who
has EMF "problems." After all, how would
it look if a highly evolved/sensitive 9th
Initiate didn't have EMF problems too!
BTW- Those two British sitcoms are old
news. I started watching them when Harry
first mentioned them years ago. They were
okay, but British humour is rather dry...
like Harry.


Question 3: What can stimulate us to
be grateful for what we have when life
is hard?

[Klemp]: Do your Spiritual Exercises and
sing HU or other spiritually charged words.
HU can help in times of danger, misunderstandings
and illness. He says he gets lots of letters
from people telling him how singing HU
helps people.

[ME]: Again, Klemp states the obvious.
Did he really have to have a seminar to
repeat what has been said over and over
time and again! But, if HU helps so much
then why does one need a M/LEM, especially,
when he just repeats Twitchell's Shariyats?

Question 4: How to I enjoy being with
friends when their beliefs differ from mine?
My friends include a smoker, a gossip,
and an atheist.

[Klemp]: Why settle for friends like this
(half joking)? The Eck Youth are out there
engaging with people who don't think like
Eckists do, and that this takes courage.
A lot of people fall by the wayside along
the spiritual path. He cautioned the youth
to beware of second-hand smoke effects,
and advised the youth to ask their friends
not to smoke indoors. He said that if the
smoker doesn't do this for a friend, then
he isn't much of a friend.

[ME]: Since Klemp was "half joking" wasn't
he, also, being sarcastic! HK's a hypocrite!

[Klemp] recalled that a friend of his from out
of town, a non-Eckist, wanted to come and
visit him, but Harry had to tell him that he
was too sensitive to smoke to allow the visit.

[ME]: I have friends that smoke and when
they visit me they go outside to smoke.
Klemp is very insensitive to others isn't he!
There's just no empathy with Klemp. He's
way too judgmental!

[HK] also recalled playing carom billiards
(a game played on a table without pockets)
when he began to feel dizzy from the smoke.
As an aside, he told the audience that IF the
other player does "test shots" before playing
a game, don't bet any money on the outcome,
because the player probably knows what he
is doing!

[ME]: I'm thinking that Klemp is just "dizzy"
all of the time! If it's not smoke, it's EMF, or
whatever! So, at one time (ten years ago?)
Klemp went someplace to play billards and
the people there smoked. Why not just leave?
BTW- The "good" players don't do "test shots"
or even "trick shots" before playing a game.
They don't want to tip you off as to how "good"
they might be, however, they will have a nice
custom made pool cue.

[Klemp]: As for gossip, Harry says that gossip
is like a skunk spraying their stink around.
Don't listen to gossip - it will pull you down,
he advised. Instead, listen to the Inner Master.

[ME]: Klemp doesn't want his chelas to discuss
his nonsense, Peter's, Joan's, or his RESAs'
informally with one another. Thus, to do so
is "gossip" and is, spiritually, bad karma.
However, one can only "imagine" what the
"Inner Master" has to say! Catch-22!

[End of Part 1]

Prometheus

What a bunch of idiots--HK, Joanie, Peter Skelsky! During
this financially hard time, they show their lack of understanding
and love by asking the chelas to dig deeper into their
pockets! Well, I think increasing membership fees (this is
not a donation, folks) can be a really good thing. It should
keep new membership down and cause some drop outs of
present members, just leaving the eck vampires to feed off
the blood of their extremely devoted members!! Rather funny
to see this happening. I think HK and company are once again
shooting themselves in the foot!

On another note, I wonder how much eckankar lost in the
stock market? How much did HK lose? And Peter Skelsky?
It would be interesting to know!!  : )

And then I wonder how many chelas are losing their jobs,
their homes, their pensions, health insurance, etc. . . . while
the mahanta is begging for more money and service?

More than ever, now is the time for a reality check . . . and
to let go of the delusional thinking nonsense! How much more
do these H.I.s owe Klemp?  When will they ever be free of paying
homage to Klemp, paying membership dues, free of obligations
to Klemp and eckankar? Will it ever be in this lifetime? Nah, not
at all. Sadly, most do not want to be free and will never leave.
The truth is that they must be forever followers . . . just can't
stand on their own even though this is all just a facade. The
emperor has no clothes!

Mish

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
<prometheus_973@...> wrote:
>
> "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
> carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
> future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
> both in service and coin."
>
> This was on a donation brochure that was
> recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
> for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
> it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
> Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
> don't? It's always a future promise just like
> all religions hand out.
>
> Here's more, to intimidate ECKists, from
> Klemp's partner in crime Peter Skelsky:
>
> "Dear Friends in ECK,
> This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
> Thanksgiving to each and every one of
> you for all you do everyday, just for love.
> Thank you for your continuing service and
> support to the ECK mission in an ever-
> changing world."
>
> ME: For love of initiations you mean!
> Maybe more initiations is how you and
> Harry could really show "thanks."
>
> PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
> troublesome times, people are searching
> for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
> in their lives."
>
> ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
> them of more money?
>
> PS: "Here at ECKankar we are also experiencing
> the financial realities of these shifting economic
> cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
> to maintain our programs for members and
> spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
> We are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
> requested membership donation at its current
> amount, which has been in effect since January
> 1, 1998."
>
> ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
> donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
> to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
> at the books to see where all of that hard earned
> money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
> and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
> How much money was lost in the Stock Market
> on bad investments?
>
> PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
> 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
> ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
> show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
> freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
> their hearts.'
>
> ME: All preachers, throughout time, have said
> basically the same thing. That is the trap of
> religion! Perhaps Klemp should save some
> printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
> printing his simple-minded and redundant
> books.
>
> PS: "When we give our gifts of COIN and
> SERVICE to ECKankar, we are helping Souls,
> children of God, find their way back home
> to God."
>
> ME: After one joins ECKankar what is given
> to them and what do they expect in return?
> What is given is an EK membership card and
> about 18 years of Old Discourses, and a
> quarterly pub called The Mystic World. Oh,
> there are also initiations that trickle down
> very slowly. However, look at what Klemp
> expects in return--Coin and Service Forever!
>
> PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
> have accepted the GIFT of ECK membership:
>
> * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
> who told me I was spiritually a member. This
> happened after reading a couple of books."
>
> ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
> doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
> fee)?  Are they still "spiritually a member" or
> do they lose initiations? They lose them!
>
> * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
> over twenty years, and it connected with me."
>
> ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
> learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
> It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
> needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
>
> * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
> I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
> lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
> now."
>
> ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! And, if you
> had stayed current with the money your "connection"
> would have continued just like with the phone
> company.
>
> * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
> other members, I felt love."
>
> ME: Any member of any church could attend
> a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
>
> * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
> books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
>
> ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
> wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
> and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
> initiations.
>
> PS: "We all remember how we felt when we
> first came upon and recognized the ECK
> teachings. As members, we know that each
> day the ECK gives us an opportunity to move
> forward spiritually, IF we have the awareness
> to see the GIFT that is being offered."
>
> ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
> initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
> a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
> years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
> gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
> "different."
>
> PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
> Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
> 'God's love is with you all the time. It's up to you
> to recognize it through the hard times and the
> good times."
>
> ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
> the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
> with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
>
> PS: 'God's love is making you more of a spiritual
> being so that you can better understand the
> conditions and situations that other Souls, other
> lights of God, are going through too. in doing
> so, you are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
>
> ME: So now ECKists are able to "serve" other Souls
> and not just SERVE Klemp or ECKankar! They don't
> need HK or a religion for that!
>
> PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
> let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
> and count our blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'if
> we want to keep the blessings in life coming to us,
> we must learn to be grateful for what we have and
> for whatever is given."
>
> ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
> Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
> Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
> Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
> for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
> tough--hang onto that money!
>
> PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the many
> blessings in life is through the act of giving. When
> we respond to a request such as this letter by giving
> back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains us,
> WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to ourselves.
> We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
> OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
>
> ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
> for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
> there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
> way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
> upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
>
> PS: "We deeply appreciate your donations and the love
> and support that you give in so many ways. Thank you
> again for your devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
> the LEM.
>
> ps IF you want information on including ECKankar
> in you will or estate plans, check the designated
> box on the donation form and return it in the
> enclosed envelope. Also, if you would like to make
> a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
> Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
> scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
> donation via the Internet."
>
> ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
> religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
> me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
> even more!
>
> Prometheus
>

Hello Mish and All,
It's always interesting to see and analyze
Klemp's B.S. from an unclouded and open-
minded perspective as a former EKist.

Klemp, once again, demonstrates his lack
of empathy for all people as he admits that
we are in a recession, but has Peter Skelskey
send out a donation letter to HK's chelas just
prior to the EK Springtime Seminar.

Klemp tries to downplay it all by saying that
there was a higher percentage of people out
of work then (circa 1930) than today. Then he
smiles (humor?) at how people view it (recession/
depression) as long as they're not affected.

Klemp has no worries because of the millions
he has safely (and secretly) hidden away. HK's
definitely better at hiding money than Darwin.
This was one reason why Klemp moved ECKankar
to Minnesota since this state doesn't require
public disclosure of finances from non-profit
organizations. And, Klemp has had 28 years
to squirrel money and property away due to
having complete control over the EK Board and
all finances. The impact of non-disclosure and
irresponsible/reckless spending is now having
more effect during this current economic downturn.

I wonder how much money ECKankar lost with
investments? I doubt that even the RESAs will
be told! But, it does, once again, point out that
Klemp (the Mahanta) isn't even close to be "All
Knowing" as he claims when "The Modern Prophet"
can't even see the future on the lowest Plane of
all! What good is it for ECKists to contact the
"INNER MASTER" on the Higher Planes when the
Inner/Outer Master can't even help them on this
Plane! LOL!

Let's face it! Klemp isn't much of a spiritual
leader, and he doesn't have any charisma! HK
doesn't write much better than he speaks either!
Klemp's a dull and dimwitted narcissist and control
freak with a mean-streak. HK positioned himself
at the ESC under Darwin and wrote some brochures
and a book and flew under the radar and over the
cuckoo's nest.

Had Darwin known about Klemp's delusions and
bridge jump, strip tease, and mental institution
confinement he never would have chosen such an
unstable replacement! Klemp's unstable and
anti-social personality is why 99.9%  of H.I.s will
never see an Eight Initiation in this or any lifetime!
How long does it take, even today, to become an
ESA and 7th initiate? This is why Klemp instructs
ECKists to use their "imaginations" more and more!
Klemp is selfish and fearful and won't share the
mountain top! This is also why he won't handout
any 12th Initiations (ECK Masterships). Although,
Joan was once due to receive one until HK's plan
was exposed prematurely by Mish's analysis of,
"Those Wonderful ECK Masters."

IMO- ECKists would be better off if there was a schism
where a FEMALE, 7th or 8th Initiate, broke away from
Klemp and Company and became the new leader. Let's
face it... EK women do most of the work, are more loving
and patient, have more empathy, and are better organized
than most male H.I.s. Women communicate better too!
Yet, in the religious Boy's Club, women will always be
second class members! Female ECKists and Female ECK
Masters (one, Kata Daki) can never become the Mahanta/
LEM. Really, by not being able to become the LEM also
means that they (she, Kata Daki) will never become the
Mahanta either! Yet, ECKists never think about these
details and facts about their religious dogma because
they are discouraged (via fear tactics) from thinking about,
questioning, and discussing such things. EK women (all
women) must have blind faith and blind trust that the
male M/LEM (Pope and other male religious leaders) are
being honest with them when they claim they are not
"spiritually" capable (due to negative atoms or sin) to
be the Leader/Mahanta.

However, ECKists should acknowledge that ECKankar,
also, believes in a "Garden of Eden" Myth with their own
Adom (Adam) and Ede (Eve). ECKists need only to reference
their EK Lexicons and "Polarians." Thus, ECKankar, too, is
fashioned after other mythical and male dominated religions
where men are at the top of the religious/decision making
hierarchy. Kata Daki is a token female EK Master created
after-the-fact and in memory of Twitchell's sister Kay-Dee.
Thus, Kata Daki (K.D.) and Kay-Dee!

NOTE:

(circa) Monday, April 13, 2009
Peter Skelskey: "Here at ECKankar We Are
Also Experiencing the Financial Realities
of these Shifting Economic Cycles. Cost
of materials, services, and equipment
to maintain our programs for members
and spiritual seekers are increasing week
by week. We are trying hard to maintain
our (lifestyle?) Requested Membership
Donation at its current amount, which
has been in effect since January 1, 1998."


Saturday, April 18, 2009
"Klemp welcomed the Guests and the Youth,
remarking: 'I am glad that you have come,
since travel is difficult for many people, with
the economic downturn. The so-called experts
don't really know what's going on. After all,
they didn't seem to see this Recession coming.
Right now, overall, there is 8% unemployment
in the U.S. While this is high, unemployment
during the Great Depression (after the stock
market crash on October 29, 1929) was much
higher, 30%. When your neighbor's out of work,
it's a recession. When you're out of work, it's
a depression,' Klemp said with a smile."

Prometheus


mishmisha wrote:

What a bunch of idiots--HK, Joanie, Peter Skelsky! During
this financially hard time, they show their lack of understanding
and love by asking the chelas to dig deeper into their
pockets! Well, I think increasing membership fees (this is
not a donation, folks) can be a really good thing. It should
keep new membership down and cause some drop outs of
present members, just leaving the eck vampires to feed off
the blood of their extremely devoted members!! Rather funny
to see this happening. I think HK and company are once again
shooting themselves in the foot!

On another note, I wonder how much eckankar lost in the
stock market? How much did HK lose? And Peter Skelsky?
It would be interesting to know!! : )

And then I wonder how many chelas are losing their jobs,
their homes, their pensions, health insurance, etc. . . . while
the mahanta is begging for more money and service?

More than ever, now is the time for a reality check . . . and
to let go of the delusional thinking nonsense! How much more
do these H.I.s owe Klemp? When will they ever be free of paying
homage to Klemp, paying membership dues, free of obligations
to Klemp and eckankar? Will it ever be in this lifetime? Nah, not
at all. Sadly, most do not want to be free and will never leave.
The truth is that they must be forever followers . . . just can't
stand on their own even though this is all just a facade. The
emperor has no clothes!

Mish

prometheus wrote:
>
> "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
> carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
> future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
> both in service and coin."
>
> This was on a donation brochure that was
> recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
> for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
> it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
> Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
> don't? It's always a future promise just like
> all religions hand out.
>
> Here's more, to intimidate ECKists, from
> Klemp's partner in crime Peter Skelsky:
>
> "Dear Friends in ECK,
> This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
> Thanksgiving to each and every one of
> you for all you do everyday, just for love.
> Thank you for your continuing service and
> support to the ECK mission in an ever-
> changing world."
>
> ME: For love of initiations you mean!
> Maybe more initiations is how you and
> Harry could really show "thanks."
>
> PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
> troublesome times, people are searching
> for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
> in their lives."
>
> ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
> them of more money?
>
> PS: "Here at ECKankar we are also experiencing
> the financial realities of these shifting economic
> cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
> to maintain our programs for members and
> spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
> We are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
> requested membership donation at its current
> amount, which has been in effect since January
> 1, 1998."
>
> ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
> donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
> to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
> at the books to see where all of that hard earned
> money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
> and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
> How much money was lost in the Stock Market
> on bad investments?
>
> PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
> 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
> ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
> show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
> freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
> their hearts.'
>
> ME: All preachers, throughout time, have said
> basically the same thing. That is the trap of
> religion! Perhaps Klemp should save some
> printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
> printing his simple-minded and redundant
> books.
>
> PS: "When we give our gifts of COIN and
> SERVICE to ECKankar, we are helping Souls,
> children of God, find their way back home
> to God."
>
> ME: After one joins ECKankar what is given
> to them and what do they expect in return?
> What is given is an EK membership card and
> about 18 years of Old Discourses, and a
> quarterly pub called The Mystic World. Oh,
> there are also initiations that trickle down
> very slowly. However, look at what Klemp
> expects in return--Coin and Service Forever!
>
> PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
> have accepted the GIFT of ECK membership:
>
> * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
> who told me I was spiritually a member. This
> happened after reading a couple of books."
>
> ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
> doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
> fee)? Are they still "spiritually a member" or
> do they lose initiations? They lose them!
>
> * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
> over twenty years, and it connected with me."
>
> ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
> learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
> It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
> needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
>
> * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
> I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
> lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
> now."
>
> ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! And, if you
> had stayed current with the money your "connection"
> would have continued just like with the phone
> company.
>
> * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
> other members, I felt love."
>
> ME: Any member of any church could attend
> a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
>
> * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
> books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
>
> ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
> wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
> and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
> initiations.
>
> PS: "We all remember how we felt when we
> first came upon and recognized the ECK
> teachings. As members, we know that each
> day the ECK gives us an opportunity to move
> forward spiritually, IF we have the awareness
> to see the GIFT that is being offered."
>
> ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
> initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
> a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
> years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
> gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
> "different."
>
> PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
> Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
> 'God's love is with you all the time. It's up to you
> to recognize it through the hard times and the
> good times."
>
> ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
> the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
> with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
>
> PS: 'God's love is making you more of a spiritual
> being so that you can better understand the
> conditions and situations that other Souls, other
> lights of God, are going through too. in doing
> so, you are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
>
> ME: So now ECKists are able to "serve" other Souls
> and not just SERVE Klemp or ECKankar! They don't
> need HK or a religion for that!
>
> PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
> let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
> and count our blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'if
> we want to keep the blessings in life coming to us,
> we must learn to be grateful for what we have and
> for whatever is given."
>
> ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
> Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
> Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
> Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
> for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
> tough--hang onto that money!
>
> PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the many
> blessings in life is through the act of giving. When
> we respond to a request such as this letter by giving
> back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains us,
> WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to ourselves.
> We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
> OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
>
> ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
> for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
> there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
> way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
> upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
>
> PS: "We deeply appreciate your donations and the love
> and support that you give in so many ways. Thank you
> again for your devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
> the LEM.
>
> ps IF you want information on including ECKankar
> in you will or estate plans, check the designated
> box on the donation form and return it in the
> enclosed envelope. Also, if you would like to make
> a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
> Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
> scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
> donation via the Internet."
>
> ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
> religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
> me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
> even more!
>
> Prometheus
>

Hello Non ekster,
It seems that Joan has been infected too!
Is Klemp contagious? He should be wearing
a mask and gloves when in public and when
asking for larger Membership Donations!

Until now I had never heard that Joan was
affected by EMF. When did this happen?
Is it psycho somatic from living with Harry?
Maybe the Klemp's should become Amish!
Don't Acupuncture needles pick up some
EMF from the surrounding wiring? Do the
Klemp's have a gas or an electric stove?
I wonder if they use a microwave? Really,
becoming Amish would be the best cure
for Harry's and Joan's EMF disease!

I'm glad that Klemp's dis-ease hasn't kept
most ECKists away from their computers
and away from EK sites like HU Chat and
Chela Chat or from Myspace and FaceBook.

BTW- As for the increase in the "requested"
EK Membership Donation/Fee... "Give 'As If'
There's No Tomorrow" could be HK's new
donation slogan.

Higher Initiations (and free beer) Tomorrow,
is a clever and humorous promise! Yes?

Prometheus



Non ekster wrote:

Klemp should be called "The Sickly Eck Master". lol
I guess the eck chelas who think they are so special,
should expect the same fate?

"[Klemp]: Harold said that before EMF
radiations were a problem for himself
and Joan, they used to watch TV in the
evening for entertainment. They were
particularly fond of two British comedies,
"Are You Being Served?" and "Fawlty Towers."
The first was about a group of salespeople
in a British department store, where each
of them had a foible that led to amusing
situations. The second was about a hotel
that was run by a husband and wife.

[ME]: JOAN has EMF "problems" too!
It must be contagious! Or, it's contagious
when you're a 9th living with a 14th who
has EMF "problems." After all, how would
it look if a highly evolved/sensitive 9th
Initiate didn't have EMF problems too!
BTW- Those two British sitcoms are old
news. I started watching them when Harry
first mentioned them years ago. They were
okay, but British humour is rather dry...
like Harry."


Non eckster ; )

prometheus wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> I thought that I'd give my opinions and
> perspectives of Klemp's talk. When analyzing
> it directly, or reading between the lines,
> HK's "current" discussion subjects and
> choice of words tell volumes about his
> personality, honesty, and mental health.
>
> ###################################
> Here are some of Klemp's latest, but out-dated
> (and recycled) witticisms and double speak
> from the recent EK Seminar held at the Hilton
> Hotel in Minneapolis.
>
> BTW-These comments are from the notes
> taken by a H.I. who attended the seminar.
> I have done minimal editing, mostly, for the
> sake of conciseness.
>
> THE TALK:
>
> [Klemp]: He began by commenting on the
> bright stage lights as he shaded his eyes with
> his hand in order to look out at the audience.
> "I'm recognizing you and enjoying you," he said.
>
> [ME]: What an odd comment! He just got on
> stage. Maybe he's enjoying the applause and
> the reception he just received from the smaller
> crowd. Vain isn't he... to enjoy the applause
> and the smiling faces from his blind followers!
>
> Harry was wearing a new dark blue suit, which
> seemed a little too large on him, as if he's lost
> some weight. He was wearing a periwinkle blue
> shirt with a striped tie. His hair seemed a softer
> gray all over.
>
> [ME]: I really don't know if this was a "new"
> suit. Why would a person buy a "new suit"
> that was too big? Maybe Klemp has lost weight,
> or maybe he's trying to puff himself out to
> look bigger?
>
> [Klemp]: Welcomed the Guests and the Youth,
> remarking that he was glad that we had come,
> since travel is difficult for many people, with
> the economic downturn. The so-called experts
> don't really know what's going on, he cautioned.
> After all, they didn't seem to see this recession
> coming. He said that right now, overall, there
> is 8% unemployment in the U.S. While this is high,
> he recalled that unemployment during the Great
> Depression (after the stock market crash on
> October 29, 1929) was much higher, 30% "When
> your neighbor's out of work, it's a recession.
> When you're out of work, it's a depression,"
> he said with a smile.
>
> [ME]: So why does Klemp have Eckists travel
> to see him when times are tough? Why not
> just record and broadcast the talk/seminar
> in a studio at the ESC? BTW- Klemp, another
> "expert," is a little low with that 8%. The real
> rate is 9%. HK should use more accurate sources.
> And, we don't need to have a 30% unemployment
> rate for it to be classified as a depression.
> HK, the EK "Modern Prophet" should go to
> robertreich.blogspot.com. Why didn't Klemp
> see it coming? And what's with that smile?
>
>
> Klemp began by answering four questions
> that the EK Youth had prepared for him.
>
> Question 1: I've begun to take my connection
> with the Mahanta for granted. How can I keep
> the inner fire alive?
>
> [Klemp]: Life keeps us on track.
> Mind wants to go back to a comfortable
> place, and when we allow this to happen,
> things begin to go wrong. Then we ask
> the Mahanta for help. The Mahanta says,
> "Pay your dues and get yourself back on
> track. Put your attention where it belongs."
> Harry noted that for most people there is
> a pattern of being on track and then falling
> away, followed by getting on track again.
> Don't worry, says Harry, the Mahanta
> is working with you.
>
> [ME]: Wait! Does Klemp ask (the Mahanta),
> himself, for help or does he ask the ECK?
> ECKists should ask the ECK (the Holy Spirit)
> for help instead of asking a God/man (Klemp)
> whose approved answer doesn't come except
> via snail mail.
>
> Question 2: What role does humor play
> in spirituality?
>
> [Klemp]: Humor is not the same as wit,
> sarcasm, or comedy. Wit and sarcasm have
> a sharp bite. Humor opens the heart but
> doesn't put other people down. Spiritual
> humor has a spiritual content behind the
> laugh.
>
> [ME]: Comedy can be a combination
> of humor, wit, and sarcasm. John Stewart,
> of "The Daily Show," uses sarcasm and
> wit for humor. ECKists take Klemp, and
> his opinions, too seriously! He's like the
> Pope of Chanhassen/Eden Prairie!
>
> [Klemp]: Harold said that before EMF
> radiations were a problem for himself
> and Joan, they used to watch TV in the
> evening for entertainment. They were
> particularly fond of two British comedies,
> "Are You Being Served?" and "Fawlty Towers."
> The first was about a group of salespeople
> in a British department store, where each
> of them had a foible that led to amusing
> situations. The second was about a hotel
> that was run by a husband and wife.
>
> [ME]: JOAN has EMF "problems" too!
> It must be contagious! Or, it's contagious
> when you're a 9th living with a 14th who
> has EMF "problems." After all, how would
> it look if a highly evolved/sensitive 9th
> Initiate didn't have EMF problems too!
> BTW- Those two British sitcoms are old
> news. I started watching them when Harry
> first mentioned them years ago. They were
> okay, but British humour is rather dry...
> like Harry.
>
>
> Question 3: What can stimulate us to
> be grateful for what we have when life
> is hard?
>
> [Klemp]: Do your Spiritual Exercises and
> sing HU or other spiritually charged words.
> HU can help in times of danger, misunderstandings
> and illness. He says he gets lots of letters
> from people telling him how singing HU
> helps people.
>
> [ME]: Again, Klemp states the obvious.
> Did he really have to have a seminar to
> repeat what has been said over and over
> time and again! But, if HU helps so much
> then why does one need a M/LEM, especially,
> when he just repeats Twitchell's Shariyats?
>
> Question 4: How to I enjoy being with
> friends when their beliefs differ from mine?
> My friends include a smoker, a gossip,
> and an atheist.
>
> [Klemp]: Why settle for friends like this
> (half joking)? The Eck Youth are out there
> engaging with people who don't think like
> Eckists do, and that this takes courage.
> A lot of people fall by the wayside along
> the spiritual path. He cautioned the youth
> to beware of second-hand smoke effects,
> and advised the youth to ask their friends
> not to smoke indoors. He said that if the
> smoker doesn't do this for a friend, then
> he isn't much of a friend.
>
> [ME]: Since Klemp was "half joking" wasn't
> he, also, being sarcastic! HK's a hypocrite!
>
> Klemp recalled that a friend of his from out
> of town, a non-Eckist, wanted to come and
> visit him, but Harry had to tell him that he
> was too sensitive to smoke to allow the visit.
>
> [ME]: I have friends that smoke and when
> they visit me they go outside to smoke.
> Klemp is very insensitive to others isn't he!
> There's just no empathy with Klemp. He's
> way too judgmental!
>
> HK also recalled playing carom billiards
> (a game played on a table without pockets)
> when he began to feel dizzy from the smoke.
> As an aside, he told the audience that IF the
> other player does "test shots" before playing
> a game, don't bet any money on the outcome,
> because the player probably knows what he
> is doing!
>
> [ME]: I'm thinking that Klemp is just "dizzy"
> all of the time! If it's not smoke, it's EMF, or
> whatever! So, at one time (ten years ago?)
> Klemp went someplace to play billards and
> the people there smoked. Why not just leave?
> BTW- The "good" players don't do "test shots"
> or even "trick shots" before playing a game.
> They don't want to tip you off as to how "good"
> they might be, however, they will have a nice
> custom made pool cue.
>
> [Klemp]: As for gossip, Harry says that gossip
> is like a skunk spraying their stink around.
> Don't listen to gossip - it will pull you down,
> he advised. Instead, listen to the Inner Master.
>
> [ME]: Klemp doesn't want his chelas to discuss
> his nonsense, Peter's, Joan's, or his RESAs'
> informally with one another. Thus, to do so
> is "gossip" and is, spiritually, bad karma.
> However, one can only "imagine" what the
> "Inner Master" has to say! Catch-22!
>
> [End of Part 1]
>
> Prometheus

Instead of "lowering" ECKankar's Required
Membership Fee/Donation Klemp wants
to "raise" it during a Recession! This action
proves that Klemp lacks both love and empathy
(and common sense) regardless of what he
may say. Actions speak louder than words
don't they!

ECKankar hasn't increased the Membership
Fee since 1998. Klemp, now, feels that this
is the perfect time to increase it. IF Klemp
cared about his followers he would be "Lowering"
this Required Fee (Requested Donation).

Why should Klemp Lower the Membership Fee?
Because this Is Not an actual "Donation!" This is
a "Fee" because it is directly related to maintaining
EK Initiations!

When ECKists aren't able to pay the Membership
Fee their Initiations are put On Hold for up to
5 years.

After 5 years of Non-payment ECKists will lose
all Initiations including the "Inner Initiations"
too! Therefore, the EK Membership is, actually,
a Maintenance Fee for the Initiations. However,
as an added initiation bonus one's name is
automatically placed into the hopper (computer)
like a lottery ticket. The "winners" get a "pink
slip" for that next initiation. Of course, that, also,
needs to be kept "active" (via money) with the
Annual Membership/Maintenance Fee.

I was e-mailed an EK Wisdom Note of Klemp's,
not too long ago, and read that a 4th Initiate
let their EK Membership Lapse (due to Non-payment).
Klemp stated that ECKists need to continue to
study their Discourses in order to maintain their
initiations. For around 18 years the limited (old)
EK Discourses are included with the Membership
Fee.

Of course, for those who have paid for and received
all of the EK Discourses, this "study requirement" to
maintain one's  initiation can no longer be tracked.
After all, how would Klemp "know" if a chela was
rereading their Discourses or Not? Okay, HK might
"know" if it was mentioned in an IRO. This is why he
wants them "mailed" in order to update your file and
track what you're doing. In any case this was a threat,
or warning to ECKists that they need to keep their
Annual EK Memberships "current" and, thus, pay the
Amount of Membership Money Due.

ECK Memberships should be FREE with
No Strings Attached! But they aren't!

WHY NOT have ECKists PAY for Subscriptions
to "The Mystic World," "The H.I. Letter" and
"The RESA Star" just like they do with the
"Youth in ECK, Letter of Light!" If the EK
Youth can pay for their subscriptions with
their limited resources Why Not have chelas
pay for these other EK Pubs too! Separate
these Material costs from the EK Membership
and Initiations!

Have H.I. ECKists pay for the training required
for those Clerical, Initiator, and ESA positions.

Also, Lower Initiates (chelas) should pay for
the EK Discourses. One has to pay for them
anyway if one wants a copy, or an updated
version.

Really, there's already an EK Building Fund
and an EK Missionary Fund that are actual
Donations "Without Strings Attached!"

Anyway, there's a lot more that could have
been changed, for the better, over the years,
like the way Memberships are set up, but Klemp
chose Not to. Now, HK wants to add insult to
injury by Increasing the Cost of something
(during a recession no less) that should have
been FREE! When will ECKists wake-up to
the Nonsense of Klemp & Company? Why
do H.I.s Need this religion or any religion(!)

Do ECKists on HU Chat, or Chela Chat dare
to even discuss these points? It would Never
happen! They are too fearful and this would
be seem as "second-guessing" the Mahanta!
Actually, it's Not the "Mahanta" making these
"outer" decisions concerning the "outer" org/
religion of ECKankar... it's the LEM! Strange,
that lay Catholics and Priests can question the
decisions/opinions of the Pope and the Church,
but ECK chelas and H.I.s can't question the
decisions/opinions of the LEM and ECKankar!

Prometheus

Donation Letter, "Spiritual Survival in
a Changing World:"

(circa) Monday, April 13, 2009
Peter Skelskey: "Here at ECKankar We Are
Also Experiencing the Financial Realities
of these Shifting Economic Cycles. Cost
of materials, services, and equipment
to maintain our programs for members
and spiritual seekers are increasing week
by week. We are trying hard to maintain
our (lifestyle?) Requested Membership
Donation at its current amount, which
has been in effect since January 1, 1998."


EK Springtime Seminar Saturday, April 18, 2009

"Klemp welcomed the Guests and the Youth,
remarking: 'I am glad that you have come,
since travel is difficult for many people, with
the economic downturn. The so-called experts
don't really know what's going on. After all,
they didn't seem to see this Recession coming.
Right now, overall, there is 8% unemployment
in the U.S. While this is high, unemployment
during the Great Depression (after the stock
market crash on October 29, 1929) was much
higher, 30%. When your neighbor's out of work,
it's a recession. When you're out of work, it's
a depression,' Klemp said with a smile."

prometheus wrote:

Hello Mish and All,
It's always interesting to see and analyze
Klemp's B.S. from an unclouded and open-
minded perspective as a former EKist.

Klemp, once again, demonstrates his lack
of empathy for all people as he admits that
we are in a recession, but has Peter Skelskey
send out a donation letter to HK's chelas just
prior to the EK Springtime Seminar.

Klemp tries to downplay it all by saying that
there was a higher percentage of people out
of work then (circa 1930) than today. Then he
smiles (humor?) at how people view it (recession/
depression) as long as they're not affected.

Klemp has no worries because of the millions
he has safely (and secretly) hidden away. HK's
definitely better at hiding money than Darwin.
This was one reason why Klemp moved ECKankar
to Minnesota since this state doesn't require
public disclosure of finances from non-profit
organizations. And, Klemp has had 28 years
to squirrel money and property away due to
having complete control over the EK Board and
all finances. The impact of non-disclosure and
irresponsible/reckless spending is now having
more effect during this current economic downturn.

I wonder how much money ECKankar lost with
investments? I doubt that even the RESAs will
be told! But, it does, once again, point out that
Klemp (the Mahanta) isn't even close to be "All
Knowing" as he claims when "The Modern Prophet"
can't even see the future on the lowest Plane of
all! What good is it for ECKists to contact the
"INNER MASTER" on the Higher Planes when the
Inner/Outer Master can't even help them on this
Plane! LOL!

Let's face it! Klemp isn't much of a spiritual
leader, and he doesn't have any charisma! HK
doesn't write much better than he speaks either!
Klemp's a dull and dimwitted narcissist and control
freak with a mean-streak. HK positioned himself
at the ESC under Darwin and wrote some brochures
and a book and flew under the radar and over the
cuckoo's nest.

Had Darwin known about Klemp's delusions and
bridge jump, strip tease, and mental institution
confinement he never would have chosen such an
unstable replacement! Klemp's unstable and
anti-social personality is why 99.9% of H.I.s will
never see an Eight Initiation in this or any lifetime!
How long does it take, even today, to become an
ESA and 7th initiate? This is why Klemp instructs
ECKists to use their "imaginations" more and more!
Klemp is selfish and fearful and won't share the
mountain top! This is also why he won't handout
any 12th Initiations (ECK Masterships). Although,
Joan was once due to receive one until HK's plan
was exposed prematurely by Mish's analysis of,
"Those Wonderful ECK Masters."

IMO- ECKists would be better off if there was a schism
where a FEMALE, 7th or 8th Initiate, broke away from
Klemp and Company and became the new leader. Let's
face it... EK women do most of the work, are more loving
and patient, have more empathy, and are better organized
than most male H.I.s. Women communicate better too!
Yet, in the religious Boy's Club, women will always be
second class members! Female ECKists and Female ECK
Masters (one, Kata Daki) can never become the Mahanta/
LEM. Really, by not being able to become the LEM also
means that they (she, Kata Daki) will never become the
Mahanta either! Yet, ECKists never think about these
details and facts about their religious dogma because
they are discouraged (via fear tactics) from thinking about,
questioning, and discussing such things. EK women (all
women) must have blind faith and blind trust that the
male M/LEM (Pope and other male religious leaders) are
being honest with them when they claim they are not
"spiritually" capable (due to negative atoms or sin) to
be the Leader/Mahanta.

However, ECKists should acknowledge that ECKankar,
also, believes in a "Garden of Eden" Myth with their own
Adom (Adam) and Ede (Eve). ECKists need only to reference
their EK Lexicons and "Polarians." Thus, ECKankar, too, is
fashioned after other mythical and male dominated religions
where men are at the top of the religious/decision making
hierarchy. Kata Daki is a token female EK Master created
after-the-fact and in memory of Twitchell's sister Kay-Dee.
Thus, Kata Daki (K.D.) and Kay-Dee!

Prometheus

mishmisha wrote:

What a bunch of idiots--HK, Joanie, Peter Skelsky! During
this financially hard time, they show their lack of understanding
and love by asking the chelas to dig deeper into their
pockets! Well, I think increasing membership fees (this is
not a donation, folks) can be a really good thing. It should
keep new membership down and cause some drop outs of
present members, just leaving the eck vampires to feed off
the blood of their extremely devoted members!! Rather funny
to see this happening. I think HK and company are once again
shooting themselves in the foot!

On another note, I wonder how much eckankar lost in the
stock market? How much did HK lose? And Peter Skelsky?
It would be interesting to know!! : )

And then I wonder how many chelas are losing their jobs,
their homes, their pensions, health insurance, etc. . . . while
the mahanta is begging for more money and service?

More than ever, now is the time for a reality check . . . and
to let go of the delusional thinking nonsense! How much more
do these H.I.s owe Klemp? When will they ever be free of paying
homage to Klemp, paying membership dues, free of obligations
to Klemp and eckankar? Will it ever be in this lifetime? Nah, not
at all. Sadly, most do not want to be free and will never leave.
The truth is that they must be forever followers . . . just can't
stand on their own even though this is all just a facade. The
emperor has no clothes!

Mish

KLEMP & PETER SKELSKEY WROTE:
>
> "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
> carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
> future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
> both in service and coin."
>
ME: This was on a donation brochure that was
> recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
> for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
> it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
> Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
> don't? It's always a future promise just like
> all religions hand out.
>
> Here's more, to pull at the heart strings
> of ECKists, from Klemp's partner in crime
> Peter Skelsky:
>
PETER SKELSKEY (PS) WROTE:
>  "Dear Friends in ECK,
> This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
> Thanksgiving to each and every one of
> you for all you do everyday, just for love.
> Thank you for your continuing service and
> support to the ECK mission in an ever-
> changing world."
>
> ME: For love of initiations you mean!
> Maybe more initiations is how you and
> Harry could really show "thanks."
>
> PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
> troublesome times, people are searching
> for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
> in their lives."
>
> ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
> them of more money?
>
> PS: "Here at ECKankar we are also experiencing
> the financial realities of these shifting economic
> cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
> to maintain our programs for members and
> spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
> We are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
> requested membership donation at its current
> amount, which has been in effect since January
> 1, 1998."
>
> ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
> donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
> to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
> at the books to see where all of that hard earned
> money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
> and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
> How much money was lost in the Stock Market
> on bad investments?
>
> PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
> 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
> ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
> show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
> freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
> their hearts.'
>
> ME: All preachers, throughout time, have said
> basically the same thing. That is the trap of
> religion! Perhaps Klemp should save some
> printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
> printing his simple-minded and redundant
> books.
>
> PS: "When we give our gifts of COIN and
> SERVICE to ECKankar, we are helping Souls,
> children of God, find their way back home
> to God."
>
> ME: After one joins ECKankar what is given
> to them and what do they expect in return?
> What is given is an EK membership card and
> about 18 years of Old Discourses, and a
> quarterly pub called The Mystic World. Oh,
> there are also initiations that trickle down
> very slowly. However, look at what Klemp
> expects in return--Coin and Service Forever!
>
> PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
> have accepted the GIFT of ECK membership:
>
> * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
> who told me I was spiritually a member. This
> happened after reading a couple of books."
>
> ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
> doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
> fee)? Are they still "spiritually a member" or
> do they lose initiations? They lose them!
>
> * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
> over twenty years, and it connected with me."
>
> ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
> learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
> It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
> needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
>
> * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
> I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
> lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
> now."
>
> ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! And, if you
> had stayed current with the money your "connection"
> would have continued just like with the phone
> company.
>
> * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
> other members, I felt love."
>
> ME: Any member of any church could attend
> a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
>
> * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
> books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
>
> ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
> wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
> and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
> initiations.
>
> PS: "We all remember how we felt when we
> first came upon and recognized the ECK
> teachings. As members, we know that each
> day the ECK gives us an opportunity to move
> forward spiritually, IF we have the awareness
> to see the GIFT that is being offered."
>
> ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
> initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
> a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
> years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
> gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
> "different."
>
> PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
> Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
> 'God's love is with you all the time. It's up to you
> to recognize it through the hard times and the
> good times."
>
> ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
> the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
> with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
>
> PS: 'God's love is making you more of a spiritual
> being so that you can better understand the
> conditions and situations that other Souls, other
> lights of God, are going through too. in doing
> so, you are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
>
> ME: So now ECKists are able to "serve" other Souls
> and not just SERVE Klemp or ECKankar! They don't
> need HK or a religion for that!
>
> PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
> let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
> and count our blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'if
> we want to keep the blessings in life coming to us,
> we must learn to be grateful for what we have and
> for whatever is given."
>
> ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
> Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
> Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
> Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
> for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
> tough--hang onto that money!
>
> PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the many
> blessings in life is through the act of giving. When
> we respond to a request such as this letter by giving
> back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains us,
> WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to ourselves.
> We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
> OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
>
> ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
> for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
> there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
> way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
> upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
>
> PS: "We deeply appreciate your donations and the love
> and support that you give in so many ways. Thank you
> again for your devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
> the LEM.
>
> ps IF you want information on including ECKankar
> in you will or estate plans, check the designated
> box on the donation form and return it in the
> enclosed envelope. Also, if you would like to make
> a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
> Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
> scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
> donation via the Internet."
>
> ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
> religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
> me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
> even more!
>
> Prometheus
>

Hello All,
Here's more from the seminar which
includes two stories from the MC.

As mentioned before, these detailed
notes were taken by an ECKist who
lives in the area, and who attended
the entire seminar. Some of her
comments are based upon simple
observations that only attendees
could experience.

"The evening session for the 2009
Eck Springtime Seminar was held
in Salon D on the 3rd floor in the
Hilton Hotel. The room was jam
packed. One ESC official came on
stage, before the session began,
to urge everyone to move toward
the center to free up seats near the
aisles."

[ME]: In my early years that would
always irk me and I would ignore
the orders and not move. I came
early and liked my aisle seat, (behind
an unoccupied reserved one). I would
have a direct view of the speakers.
Why should irresponsible late comers
get the best seats? Let the procrastinators
sit in the back of the room, or stand
along the back wall, (nowadays they
can be directed to the overflow room)!
What it comes down to is that everyone
should be FREE to sit where they want.
What happened to Spiritual Freedom and
to Freedom of Choice? This a Waking
Dream/Golden-Tongued Wisdom that
ECKists have ignored for years!

"Although the number of attendees was
SMALL, compared with attendees at the
2008 EK Worldwide Seminar, the ESC
official did mention that there were MORE
people in attendance at the Saturday
evening session than they had anticipated."

[ME]: That doesn't make sense! Harry, the
Modern Day Prophet, should "know" and
"anticipate" anything and everything! Didn't
the ESC count the number of pre-registered
people, and "know" how many locals would
come for Harry's Saturday Evening talk? I'm
thinking there's more to it than this. The
ESC, and Klemp, were caught in a Catch-22
(karmic event). The Hilton, Salon D, was too
small and the Convention Center was too
big (and costly). Perhaps, Klemp should
have channeled "Goldie Locks" in order
to find the venue that was "just right!"

"The MC for the evening was Suzanne Percoskie.
Suzanne began by telling a story where she
was asked, by the Mahanta, 'What do you REALLY
want?'

She replied, 'I want to experience love.' Later,
she saw a toad and kissed it, thinking that
the toad represented a 'prince' for her. Of course,
nothing happened.

The next day the Mahanta asked her again,
'Is that ALL you want?' She said, 'I want to
experience Divine Love.'

Her wish was granted, and for a brief moment,
she was allowed to experience God's love
directly. It was all that she had hoped, and
she realized, 'I deserve more than just a toad!'
She urged the audience to ask themselves,
'What do I REALLY want?'"

[ME]: This reminded me of a movie where
Brandon Frazer had "wishes" granted by the
Devil. He had to be very precise with his wishes
or the Devil would trick him and twist the positive
wishes into negative results. Is Klemp a Genie,
or a Devil? And, is Suzanne that delusional that
she would kiss a toad (for real) or was this just
a dream? It's unclear!

Actually, Suzanne misinterpreted the message
that "Soul" provided her. Klemp is the "Toad"
representing earthly limitations, initiations,
and desires. She (Soul), as the Prince/Princess,
represents the Divine. She IS, already, what
she wants!


"A group of Eck musicians played an upbeat
version of Amazing Grace next... One of the
guitar players sang."

[ME]: Was that Amazing Grace or Amazing HU?
In reality, "Amazing HU" is a pirated version of
"Amazing Grace!"


"Suzanne returned to the stage to tell another
[stupid] story. She said that her car key snapped
into two pieces suddenly a few days ago, AND
she had left her cell phone at work, so she couldn't
call anyone for help. (I remember this incident,
which she told about on FACEBOOK very recently).
She went into a nearby shop, where she asked if
they had any Crazy Glue, a very strong household
glue that is commonly used in the U.S. to fix things.
They didn't have any, and the clerk told her that
it wouldn't work on a car key, anyway, as she had
tried it. Suzanne was advised to call a locksmith,
which she did through AAA (automotive club).
In 15 minutes, she had a new key made and was
able to drive home.

She noticed that this incident had highlighted
a fear of hers, the fear of being stranded and
not able to get home. She realized that she had
the Mahanta's help all along. 'The Mahanta's has
your back,' she said."

[ME]: Actually, it sounds more like AAA has her back!

This is a "Waking Dream." Klemp (the Mahanta)
represents the "Crazy Glue" that Can't Fix KEY
elements in Soul's (her) journey on the road of life.
The "clerk" was Soul pointing out the errors of her
thinking (beliefs) and AAA represented the Holy
Spirit and Soul's relationship with It. This Waking
Dream points out that there is No Need for a middleman
Mahanta (Crazy Glue) and that he (it) won't/can't
"Fix" all that he (it) claims. Her "fear of being stranded
and not making it home" is telling her that ECKankar
will leave her "stranded" in the lower worlds and
Will Not help her (Soul), from this point on, to
return to the Ocean of Love and Mercy.

[End of Part 2]

Prometheus

Good morning all,

Well surprise surprise here I am again after how many months?  LOL Just wanted
to check in and see how everyone is doing?

Was just thinking recently about how long it has been since I finally took the
steps (courage) to just get real and walk away from this path... Hmmm it's
coming up on 6yrs soon, after being a member of eckankrap for over 30yrs.

I really haven't had the time to catch up on all of the messages being posted, I
assume everyone is doing a bang up job of keeping it real!

Etznab I see your name posted here quite a lot, so I am looking forward to your
comments, as they always have been eye opening, and as always I surely
appreciate your balance!

Wish I had some awe inspiring message today, maybe something new and juicy to
offer for your entertainment... but little ol me is just living life even in
these hard economic times, still appreciate all the gifts still out there that
are totally free!  Like taking a walk in the woods and connecting with that real
temple within, or feeling the breeze on my face as I lift it to the sun....
awesome to know that no matter where we walk, it is all spiritual ground! No
master or guru telling you which turn is correct, or how much money you must pay
to belong.  Nor the pressure to feel you have to be a good eckankrap cultbot and
bring more sheep to the feet of the master! LOL

By the way, I haven't given up on my eck bashing on the net, just doing it in a
clean up sort of fashion, going behind the brain dead eckies that are trying to
spead the good word in virtual reality social networks....  yep the net is
evolving and so are the tactics these brainwashed eckies have become.

Enjoy the gifts that are right in front of your faces.... come out from your
inner hidding and live life. :)

Lots of love and hugs to my friends here, I've missed you all!
ElizaBeth

The following excerpt tells volumes
about the limiting and restricted
mindset that EKists accept as part
of their religious dogma. It seems
that Eckists can only "experience"
a few seconds of "God's love."

Suzanne (the MC) said:
'My wish [to experience Divine Love] was
[finally] granted [by the Mahanta], and for
a brief moment I was allowed to experience
God's love directly. It was all that I had hoped,
and I realized that I deserve more than just
a toad [Klemp]!' "She, then, urged the audience
to ask themselves, 'What do I REALLY want?"'

However, was this really a "direct"
experience since it was via the M/
LEM? And, why was this "love" coming
from "God" versus SUGMAD? Okay,
let's say that this "God" and Sugmad
are one and the same. Why does
anyone, especially spiritually advanced
Eckists (lol), ALWAYS need Klemp's
intervention? How does Co-dependency
equate to being Spiritually Free or
Spiritually Advanced and with Self-
Mastery?

BTW- Was Suzanne's "brief moment"
of experiencing "Divine Love" the same
as God-Realization? It's a wonder she
didn't feel compelled to jump off a
bridge, etc. like Klemp!

After leaving ECKankar, and removing
myself from the muck and mire of the
limiting and restricted EK dogma, I too
had a Divine experience, but it lasted
for about 36 hours versus a "brief moment."
For a day and a half I experience total
contentment! The experience gave a
gentle and expanded clarity that was
multifaceted and layered with insights
into and understanding. There was a
sense of Oneness with the Holy Spirit
and a Unity and Harmony with all things.
Not until leaving ECKankar, and the Co-
dependent M/LEM mindset behind, was
it possible to  experience this purity of
Truth and of the REAL.

Prometheus


prometheus wrote:

Hello All,
Here's more from the seminar which
includes two stories from the MC.

As mentioned before, these detailed
notes were taken by an ECKist who
lives in the area, and who attended
the entire seminar. Some of her
comments are based upon simple
observations that only attendees
could experience.

"The evening session for the 2009
Eck Springtime Seminar was held
in Salon D on the 3rd floor in the
Hilton Hotel. The room was jam
packed. One ESC official came on
stage, before the session began,
to urge everyone to move toward
the center to free up seats near the
aisles."

[ME]: In my early years that would
always irk me and I would ignore
the orders and not move. I came
early and liked my aisle seat, (behind
an unoccupied reserved one). I would
have a direct view of the speakers.
Why should irresponsible late comers
get the best seats? Let the procrastinators
sit in the back of the room, or stand
along the back wall, (nowadays they
can be directed to the overflow room)!
What it comes down to is that everyone
should be FREE to sit where they want.
What happened to Spiritual Freedom and
to Freedom of Choice? Could this be
another hint (by the EK) and "Golden-
Tongued Wisdom" that ECKists have
ignored for years?

"Although the number of attendees was
SMALL, compared with attendees at the
2008 EK Worldwide Seminar, the ESC
official did mention that there were MORE
people in attendance at the Saturday
evening session than they had anticipated."

[ME]: That doesn't make sense! Harry, the
Modern Day Prophet, should "know" and
"anticipate" anything and everything! Didn't
the ESC count the number of pre-registered
people, and "know" how many locals would
come for Harry's Saturday Evening talk? I'm
thinking there's more to it than this. The
ESC, and Klemp, were caught in a Catch-22
(karmic event). The Hilton, Salon D, was too
small and the Convention Center was too
big (and costly). Perhaps, Klemp should
have channeled "Goldie Locks" in order
to find the venue that was "just right!"

"The MC for the evening was Suzanne
Percoskie. Suzanne began by telling
a story where she was asked, by the
Mahanta, 'What do you REALLY want?'

She replied, 'I want to experience love.'
Later, she saw a toad and kissed it, thinking
that the toad represented a 'prince' for her.
Of course, nothing happened.

The next day the Mahanta asked her again,
'Is that ALL you want?' She said, 'I want to
experience Divine Love.'

Her wish was granted, and for a brief moment,
she was allowed to experience God's love
directly. It was all that she had hoped, and
she realized, 'I deserve more than just a toad!'
She urged the audience to ask themselves,
'What do I REALLY want?'"

[ME]: This reminded me of a movie where
Brandon Frazer had "wishes" granted by the
Devil. The Devil took different forms and one
was that of a beautiful woman. He had to be
very precise with his wishes or the Devil would
trick him and twist the positive wishes into
negative results. Is Klemp a Genie, or a Devil?
And, is Suzanne that delusional that she would
kiss a toad (for real) or was this just a dream?
It's unclear!

Actually, Suzanne misinterpreted the message
that "Soul" provided her. Klemp is the "Toad"
representing earthly limitations, initiations,
and desires. She (Soul), as the Prince/Princess,
represents the Divine. She IS, already, what
she seeks!

"A group of Eck musicians played an upbeat
version of Amazing Grace next... One of the
guitar players sang."

[ME]: Was that Amazing Grace or Amazing HU?
In reality, "Amazing HU" is a pirated version of
"Amazing Grace!"

"Suzanne returned to the stage to tell another
story. She said that her car key snapped into
two pieces suddenly a few days ago, AND she
had left her cell phone at work, so she couldn't
call anyone for help. (I remember this incident,
which she told about on FACEBOOK very recently).
She went into a nearby shop, where she asked
if they had any Crazy Glue, a very strong
household glue that is commonly used in the
U.S. to fix things. They didn't have any, and the
clerk told her that it wouldn't work on a car key,
she tried it anyway. Suzanne was, then, advised
to call a locksmith, which she did through AAA
(automotive club). In 15 minutes, she had a new
key made and was able to drive home.

She noticed that this incident had highlighted
a fear of hers, the fear of being stranded and
not able to get home. She realized that she had
the Mahanta's help all along. 'The Mahanta's has
your back,' she said."

[ME]: Actually, it sounds more like AAA has her back!

This is a "Waking Dream." Klemp (the Mahanta)
represents the "Crazy Glue" that Can't Fix KEY
elements in Soul's (her) journey on the road of life.
The "clerk" was Soul (via Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
pointing out the errors of her thinking (beliefs) and
AAA represented the Holy Spirit (unlocking Truth),
as well as, Soul's (her) relationship with IT. This
Waking Dream (and Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
points out that Suzanne refused, at first, to listen
to Soul (the clerk) concerning the "Crazy Glue"
(Klemp). And, there is No Need for a middleman
Mahanta (Crazy Glue) since HK won't/can't "Fix"
all that he claims, or that people think he can "fix."
Her "fear of being stranded and not making it home"
is telling her that ECKankar will leave her "stranded"
in the lower worlds and Will Not help her (Soul),
from this point on, to return to the Ocean of Love
and Mercy.

[End of Part 2]

Prometheus

Prometheus,

I would have to agree with you about the "As If" Fake Love that eckists claim to
feel. It is always conditional. Often, I have had the same profound sense of
Beingness and Contentment that was Beauty personified, kind of like when you
look into the eyes of a wild tiger, or glimpse the serene expanse of the sky
beyond the horizon. It is difficult to put into words. You certainly don't need
to say I felt it through my Kult Leader, Klemp.

I liked what you said:

"After leaving ECKankar, and removing
> myself from the muck and mire of the
> limiting and restricted EK dogma, I too
> had a Divine experience, but it lasted
> for about 36 hours versus a "brief moment."
> For a day and a half I experience total
> contentment! The experience gave a
> gentle and expanded clarity that was
> multifaceted and layered with insights
> into and understanding. There was a
> sense of Oneness with the Holy Spirit
> and a Unity and Harmony with all things.
> Not until leaving ECKankar, and the Co-
> dependent M/LEM mindset behind, was
> it possible to  experience this purity of
> Truth and of the REAL. "

In addition, my experience (vs. eksperience) was/is usually Non theistic, as it
is beyond words and conceptions. Even the word Beauty does not have the same
meaning, because it is All Inclusive. I could never truly experience this in
eckankar org. Eckankar is extremely divisive and smothering.

The kind of experience you describe (The experience gave a
> gentle and expanded clarity that was
> multifaceted and layered with insights
> into and understanding.) is what led me AWAY from eckankar, not toward it.

Non Eckster ; )

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
<prometheus_973@...> wrote:
>
> The following excerpt tells volumes
> about the limiting and restricted
> mindset that EKists accept as part
> of their religious dogma. It seems
> that Eckists can only "experience"
> a few seconds of "God's love."
>
> Suzanne (the MC) said:
> 'My wish [to experience Divine Love] was
> [finally] granted [by the Mahanta], and for
> a brief moment I was allowed to experience
> God's love directly. It was all that I had hoped,
> and I realized that I deserve more than just
> a toad [Klemp]!' "She, then, urged the audience
> to ask themselves, 'What do I REALLY want?"'
>
> However, was this really a "direct"
> experience since it was via the M/
> LEM? And, why was this "love" coming
> from "God" versus SUGMAD? Okay,
> let's say that this "God" and Sugmad
> are one and the same. Why does
> anyone, especially spiritually advanced
> Eckists (lol), ALWAYS need Klemp's
> intervention? How does Co-dependency
> equate to being Spiritually Free or
> Spiritually Advanced and with Self-
> Mastery?
>
> BTW- Was Suzanne's "brief moment"
> of experiencing "Divine Love" the same
> as God-Realization? It's a wonder she
> didn't feel compelled to jump off a
> bridge, etc. like Klemp!
>
> After leaving ECKankar, and removing
> myself from the muck and mire of the
> limiting and restricted EK dogma, I too
> had a Divine experience, but it lasted
> for about 36 hours versus a "brief moment."
> For a day and a half I experience total
> contentment! The experience gave a
> gentle and expanded clarity that was
> multifaceted and layered with insights
> into and understanding. There was a
> sense of Oneness with the Holy Spirit
> and a Unity and Harmony with all things.
> Not until leaving ECKankar, and the Co-
> dependent M/LEM mindset behind, was
> it possible to  experience this purity of
> Truth and of the REAL.
>
> Prometheus
>
>
> prometheus wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> Here's more from the seminar which
> includes two stories from the MC.
>
> As mentioned before, these detailed
> notes were taken by an ECKist who
> lives in the area, and who attended
> the entire seminar. Some of her
> comments are based upon simple
> observations that only attendees
> could experience.
>
> "The evening session for the 2009
> Eck Springtime Seminar was held
> in Salon D on the 3rd floor in the
> Hilton Hotel. The room was jam
> packed. One ESC official came on
> stage, before the session began,
> to urge everyone to move toward
> the center to free up seats near the
> aisles."
>
> [ME]: In my early years that would
> always irk me and I would ignore
> the orders and not move. I came
> early and liked my aisle seat, (behind
> an unoccupied reserved one). I would
> have a direct view of the speakers.
> Why should irresponsible late comers
> get the best seats? Let the procrastinators
> sit in the back of the room, or stand
> along the back wall, (nowadays they
> can be directed to the overflow room)!
> What it comes down to is that everyone
> should be FREE to sit where they want.
> What happened to Spiritual Freedom and
> to Freedom of Choice? Could this be
> another hint (by the EK) and "Golden-
> Tongued Wisdom" that ECKists have
> ignored for years?
>
> "Although the number of attendees was
> SMALL, compared with attendees at the
> 2008 EK Worldwide Seminar, the ESC
> official did mention that there were MORE
> people in attendance at the Saturday
> evening session than they had anticipated."
>
> [ME]: That doesn't make sense! Harry, the
> Modern Day Prophet, should "know" and
> "anticipate" anything and everything! Didn't
> the ESC count the number of pre-registered
> people, and "know" how many locals would
> come for Harry's Saturday Evening talk? I'm
> thinking there's more to it than this. The
> ESC, and Klemp, were caught in a Catch-22
> (karmic event). The Hilton, Salon D, was too
> small and the Convention Center was too
> big (and costly). Perhaps, Klemp should
> have channeled "Goldie Locks" in order
> to find the venue that was "just right!"
>
> "The MC for the evening was Suzanne
> Percoskie. Suzanne began by telling
> a story where she was asked, by the
> Mahanta, 'What do you REALLY want?'
>
> She replied, 'I want to experience love.'
> Later, she saw a toad and kissed it, thinking
> that the toad represented a 'prince' for her.
> Of course, nothing happened.
>
> The next day the Mahanta asked her again,
> 'Is that ALL you want?' She said, 'I want to
> experience Divine Love.'
>
> Her wish was granted, and for a brief moment,
> she was allowed to experience God's love
> directly. It was all that she had hoped, and
> she realized, 'I deserve more than just a toad!'
> She urged the audience to ask themselves,
> 'What do I REALLY want?'"
>
> [ME]: This reminded me of a movie where
> Brandon Frazer had "wishes" granted by the
> Devil. The Devil took different forms and one
> was that of a beautiful woman. He had to be
> very precise with his wishes or the Devil would
> trick him and twist the positive wishes into
> negative results. Is Klemp a Genie, or a Devil?
> And, is Suzanne that delusional that she would
> kiss a toad (for real) or was this just a dream?
> It's unclear!
>
> Actually, Suzanne misinterpreted the message
> that "Soul" provided her. Klemp is the "Toad"
> representing earthly limitations, initiations,
> and desires. She (Soul), as the Prince/Princess,
> represents the Divine. She IS, already, what
> she seeks!
>
> "A group of Eck musicians played an upbeat
> version of Amazing Grace next... One of the
> guitar players sang."
>
> [ME]: Was that Amazing Grace or Amazing HU?
> In reality, "Amazing HU" is a pirated version of
> "Amazing Grace!"
>
> "Suzanne returned to the stage to tell another
> story. She said that her car key snapped into
> two pieces suddenly a few days ago, AND she
> had left her cell phone at work, so she couldn't
> call anyone for help. (I remember this incident,
> which she told about on FACEBOOK very recently).
> She went into a nearby shop, where she asked
> if they had any Crazy Glue, a very strong
> household glue that is commonly used in the
> U.S. to fix things. They didn't have any, and the
> clerk told her that it wouldn't work on a car key,
> she tried it anyway. Suzanne was, then, advised
> to call a locksmith, which she did through AAA
> (automotive club). In 15 minutes, she had a new
> key made and was able to drive home.
>
> She noticed that this incident had highlighted
> a fear of hers, the fear of being stranded and
> not able to get home. She realized that she had
> the Mahanta's help all along. 'The Mahanta's has
> your back,' she said."
>
> [ME]: Actually, it sounds more like AAA has her back!
>
> This is a "Waking Dream." Klemp (the Mahanta)
> represents the "Crazy Glue" that Can't Fix KEY
> elements in Soul's (her) journey on the road of life.
> The "clerk" was Soul (via Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
> pointing out the errors of her thinking (beliefs) and
> AAA represented the Holy Spirit (unlocking Truth),
> as well as, Soul's (her) relationship with IT. This
> Waking Dream (and Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
> points out that Suzanne refused, at first, to listen
> to Soul (the clerk) concerning the "Crazy Glue"
> (Klemp). And, there is No Need for a middleman
> Mahanta (Crazy Glue) since HK won't/can't "Fix"
> all that he claims, or that people think he can "fix."
> Her "fear of being stranded and not making it home"
> is telling her that ECKankar will leave her "stranded"
> in the lower worlds and Will Not help her (Soul),
> from this point on, to return to the Ocean of Love
> and Mercy.
>
> [End of Part 2]
>
> Prometheus
>

I find it humorous that the godman of the universe,
the l.e.m./mahanta of eckankrap will not allow free
broadcasting of his seminar talks . . . and that chelas
of course have to pay some good bucks to attend the
seminars in order to listen to him in person. And truly
it is rather contradictory to keep the talks secretive for
only paying eck members . . . when these same members
are constantly told to go out and sell eckankrap in order
to bring in new membership. If HK is truly wanting to
deliver a message to the masses, why doesn't he openly
share??

Well, it is all about money. Klemp has to be paid for his
talks. The godman needs to line his pockets with coin.
And if a person misses the seminar or doesn't pay to
listen to it on the Internet, there will be tapes and
books published . . . for sale at a later date. Eckankrap is
all about selling their snake oil. And the gullible chelas
seem to like it just fine . . . even if it takes them weeks
and months to figure out what HK might be meaning in
his gibberish talks and rants. : )

Prometheus, thanks for sharing the "notes" of the seminar
talk--it is just more of the same craziness. Nice that some
chelas will share so members do not have to pay . . . getting
HK's words out there. But I doubt if the chelas are happy
that the "talk" info is showing up here. But really they
shouldn't worry . . . because if HK's talk is that good, it
should draw in new members--right? Even from this
site??? LOL!

Mish

P.S. Nice to see you back, Liz! Missed you! Really liked
your post!

Hi Mish and All,
You make a good point! Why aren't Klemp's
EK Seminar talks FREE? When "Newcomers"
show up they are allowed to attend the talk
for FREE (of charge/donation).

Basically, these Eck Seminars are dumbed down,
from the more complex dogma, and have been
(for years) redesigned for newer initiates
and the public.

The EK Seminars are, also, used for training
purposes too! Thus, many of the MCs, speakers,
facilitators, etc. are selected/recommended by
RESAs as part of their leadership training experience.

Of course, the social aspect (seeing friends)
and making a "pilgrimage" to the Temple, ESC,
and "Temple Trails" are other reasons for EKists
to attend one of these redundant brain-numbing
seminars.

It did make it very annoying when one was doing
the Vahana thing and Klemp wasn't doing his part
to help out. EKists will buy, from personal funds,
boxes of books, brochures, book marks, cards,
pocket posters, etc. in order to spread the word
while Klemp charges for his Seminar talks! Why
not Broadcast it to the Public for FREE and ask
EKists for "Donations." But, make the "Donations"
voluntary and Not required/"requested" (with strings
attached)!

Yes, an ECKist Not Only has to pay to attend HK's
talk, but they also have to pay to listen to it on
the Internet, or later pay to have a printed transcript.
And, individuals, and/or EK Centers, have to pay
for the Video, and Audio version too! If Klemp was
really serious about spreading the word of EK he
wouldn't be squeaking, "there's no free lunch, there's
no free lunch!"

Prometheus

mish wrote:

I find it humorous that the godman of the universe,
the l.e.m./mahanta of eckankrap will not allow free
broadcasting of his seminar talks . . . and that chelas
of course have to pay some good bucks to attend the
seminars in order to listen to him in person. And truly
it is rather contradictory to keep the talks secretive for
only paying eck members . . . when these same members
are constantly told to go out and sell eckankrap in order
to bring in new membership. If HK is truly wanting to
deliver a message to the masses, why doesn't he openly
share??

Well, it is all about money. Klemp has to be paid for his
talks. The godman needs to line his pockets with coin.
And if a person misses the seminar or doesn't pay to
listen to it on the Internet, there will be tapes and
books published . . . for sale at a later date. Eckankrap
is all about selling their snake oil. And the gullible chelas
seem to like it just fine . . . even if it takes them weeks
and months to figure out what HK might be meaning
in his gibberish talks and rants. : )

Prometheus, thanks for sharing the "notes" of the seminar
talk--it is just more of the same craziness. Nice that some
chelas will share so members do not have to pay . . . getting
HK's words out there. But I doubt if the chelas are happy
that the "talk" info is showing up here. But really they
shouldn't worry . . . because if HK's talk is that good,
it should draw in new members--right? Even from this
site??? LOL!

Mish

P.S. Nice to see you back, Liz! Missed you! Really liked
your post!

Liz,

    Good to hear from you again :)

    I recently re read the stories about Harold
Klemp on the bridge and at the airport - after
his reported God-Realization experience.

    It was difficult to read. For me.

    On the bridge, it seemed to me, some guy
(the bridge-tender) kept changing between an
"Eck Master" and a regular guy. He even had
a friend. Some guy who, apparently, changed
from the Kal Niranjan to an ordinary guy. The
two of these guys drive off in a car and Harold
jumps in a river. That was ironic, I thought, an
Eck Master & the Kal Niranjan driving away in
a car together! Well, I mean, two people that
Harold Klemp "might have" imagined were an
Eck Master and the Kal Niranjan. Apparently,
neither one of them came back to help Harold
Klemp out of the river!

    I realized that, up till now, I hadn't reviewed
the details in those stories with a critical eye.
Now I'm not sure I even want to go there.

Etznab

-----Original Message-----
From: Elizabeth <ewickings@...>
To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 8:12 am
Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Hello all... still living a non
eck life and couldn't be happier!








Good morning all,



Well surprise surprise here I am again after how many months?  LOL Just
wanted to check in and see how everyone is doing?



Was just thinking recently about how long it has been since I finally
took the steps (courage) to just get real and walk away from this
path... Hmmm it's coming up on 6yrs soon, after being a member of
eckankrap for over 30yrs.



I really haven't had the time to catch up on all of the messages being
posted, I assume everyone is doing a bang up job of keeping it real!



Etznab I see your name posted here quite a lot, so I am looking forward
to your comments, as they always have been eye opening, and as always I
surely appreciate your balance!



Wish I had some awe inspiring message today, maybe something new and
juicy to offer for your entertainment... but little ol me is just
living life even in these hard economic times, still appreciate all the
gifts still out there that are totally free!  Like taking a walk in the
woods and connecting with that real temple within, or feeling the
breeze on my face as I lift it to the sun.... awesome to know that no
matter where we walk, it is all spiritual ground! No master or guru
telling you which turn is correct, or how much money you must pay to
belong.  Nor the pressure to feel you have to be a good eckankrap
cultbot and bring more sheep to the feet of the master! LOL



By the way, I haven't given up on my eck bashing on the net, just doing
it in a clean up sort of fashion, going behind the brain dead eckies
that are trying to spead the good word in virtual reality social
networks....  yep the net is evolving and so are the tactics these
brainwashed eckies have become.



Enjoy the gifts that are right in front of your faces.... come out from
your inner hidding and live life. :)



Lots of love and hugs to my friends here, I've missed you all!

ElizaBeth

http://atomdoers.org/DhunMasters.html

    Is this a new picture?

(Scroll down for larger view.)

Etznab

Hello Non ekster and All,
I agree that many EKists mistake conditional
love for unconditional love. In the one story
(below) that the MC, Suzanne, told she was
"wishing to experience Divine Love." However,
often EKists don't realize Their own Divinity
as Soul. Isn't it true that Soul is Divine and
IS One with the Holy Spirit!

Therefore, all one has to do is to love their
own True Self and Beingness as Soul (and to
identify with Soul) in order to experience
"Divine Love."

One Does Not need to have a "wish" granted
by some middleman mahanta. So, if EKists really
did believe in the Divine aspects of Soul they
wouldn't be giving or listening to talks based
upon such primitive and limiting concepts in
consciousness.

After all, the concept that "we ARE Soul" versus
"we HAVE a Soul" is rather unique. Also, unique,
is that Soul is "One" with the Holy Spirit. But,
EKists are restricted (by Klemp) as to how far
they are permitted to take these concepts. Instead,
they are (mis)directed away from their own unique
Divinity and are conditioned to believe in a "Master"
other than Soul. EKists are, also, instructed to
follow a more generic and generalized "group"
and/or "circle" form of consciousness. This is
a KAL trap!

Prometheus


Non ekster wrote:

Prometheus,

I would have to agree with you about the "As If"
Fake Love that eckists claim to feel. It is always
conditional. Often, I have had the same profound
sense of Beingness and Contentment that was Beauty
personified, kind of like when you look into the eyes
of a wild tiger, or glimpse the serene expanse of
the sky beyond the horizon. It is difficult to put into
words. You certainly don't need to say I felt it through
my Kult Leader, Klemp.

I liked what you said:

> "After leaving ECKankar, and removing
> myself from the muck and mire of the
> limiting and restricted EK dogma, I too
> had a Divine experience, but it lasted
> for about 36 hours versus a "brief moment."
> For a day and a half I experience total
> contentment! The experience gave a
> gentle and expanded clarity that was
> multifaceted and layered with insights
> and understanding. There was a sense
> of Oneness with the Holy Spirit and a
> Unity and Harmony with all things.
> Not until leaving ECKankar, and the Co-
> dependent M/LEM mindset behind, was
> it possible to experience this purity of
> Truth and of the REAL. "

In addition, my experience (vs. eksperience)
was/is usually Non theistic, as it is beyond
words and conceptions. Even the word Beauty
does not have the same meaning, because
it is All Inclusive. I could never truly experience
this in eckankar org. Eckankar is extremely
divisive and smothering.

The kind of experience you describe
(The experience gave a gentle and expanded
clarity that was multifaceted and layered with
insights and understanding) is what led me
AWAY from eckankar, not toward it.

Non Eckster ; )

prometheus wrote:
>
> The following excerpt tells volumes
> about the limiting and restricted
> mindset that EKists accept as part
> of their religious dogma. It seems
> that Eckists can only "experience"
> a few seconds of "God's love."
>
> Suzanne (the MC) said:
> 'My wish [to experience Divine Love] was
> [finally] granted [by the Mahanta], and for
> a brief moment I was allowed to experience
> God's love directly. It was all that I had hoped,
> and I realized that I deserve more than just
> a toad [Klemp]!' "She, then, urged the audience
> to ask themselves, 'What do I REALLY want?"'
>
> However, was this really a "direct"
> experience since it was via the M/
> LEM? And, why was this "love" coming
> from "God" versus SUGMAD? Okay,
> let's say that this "God" and Sugmad
> are one and the same. Why does
> anyone, especially spiritually advanced
> Eckists (lol), ALWAYS need Klemp's
> intervention? How does Co-dependency
> equate to being Spiritually Free or
> Spiritually Advanced and with Self-
> Mastery?
>
> BTW- Was Suzanne's "brief moment"
> of experiencing "Divine Love" the same
> as God-Realization? It's a wonder she
> didn't feel compelled to jump off a
> bridge, etc. like Klemp!
>
> After leaving ECKankar, and removing
> myself from the muck and mire of the
> limiting and restricted EK dogma, I too
> had a Divine experience, but it lasted
> for about 36 hours versus a "brief moment."
> For a day and a half I experience total
> contentment! The experience gave a
> gentle and expanded clarity that was
> multifaceted and layered with insights
> into and understanding. There was a
> sense of Oneness with the Holy Spirit
> and a Unity and Harmony with all things.
> Not until leaving ECKankar, and the Co-
> dependent M/LEM mindset behind, was
> it possible to experience this purity of
> Truth and of the REAL.
>
> Prometheus
>
>
> prometheus wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> Here's more from the seminar which
> includes two stories from the MC.
>
> As mentioned before, these detailed
> notes were taken by an ECKist who
> lives in the area, and who attended
> the entire seminar. Some of her
> comments are based upon simple
> observations that only attendees
> could experience.
>
> "The evening session for the 2009
> Eck Springtime Seminar was held
> in Salon D on the 3rd floor in the
> Hilton Hotel. The room was jam
> packed. One ESC official came on
> stage, before the session began,
> to urge everyone to move toward
> the center to free up seats near the
> aisles."
>
> [ME]: In my early years that would
> always irk me and I would ignore
> the orders and not move. I came
> early and liked my aisle seat, (behind
> an unoccupied reserved one). I would
> have a direct view of the speakers.
> Why should irresponsible late comers
> get the best seats? Let the procrastinators
> sit in the back of the room, or stand
> along the back wall, (nowadays they
> can be directed to the overflow room)!
> What it comes down to is that everyone
> should be FREE to sit where they want.
> What happened to Spiritual Freedom and
> to Freedom of Choice? Could this be
> another hint (by the EK) and "Golden-
> Tongued Wisdom" that ECKists have
> ignored for years?
>
> "Although the number of attendees was
> SMALL, compared with attendees at the
> 2008 EK Worldwide Seminar, the ESC
> official did mention that there were MORE
> people in attendance at the Saturday
> evening session than they had anticipated."
>
> [ME]: That doesn't make sense! Harry, the
> Modern Day Prophet, should "know" and
> "anticipate" anything and everything! Didn't
> the ESC count the number of pre-registered
> people, and "know" how many locals would
> come for Harry's Saturday Evening talk? I'm
> thinking there's more to it than this. The
> ESC, and Klemp, were caught in a Catch-22
> (karmic event). The Hilton, Salon D, was too
> small and the Convention Center was too
> big (and costly). Perhaps, Klemp should
> have channeled "Goldie Locks" in order
> to find the venue that was "just right!"
>
> "The MC for the evening was Suzanne
> Percoskie. Suzanne began by telling
> a story where she was asked, by the
> Mahanta, 'What do you REALLY want?'
>
> She replied, 'I want to experience love.'
> Later, she saw a toad and kissed it, thinking
> that the toad represented a 'prince' for her.
> Of course, nothing happened.
>
> The next day the Mahanta asked her again,
> 'Is that ALL you want?' She said, 'I want to
> experience Divine Love.'
>
> Her wish was granted, and for a brief moment,
> she was allowed to experience God's love
> directly. It was all that she had hoped, and
> she realized, 'I deserve more than just a toad!'
> She urged the audience to ask themselves,
> 'What do I REALLY want?'"
>
> [ME]: This reminded me of a movie where
> Brandon Frazer had "wishes" granted by the
> Devil. The Devil took different forms and one
> was that of a beautiful woman. He had to be
> very precise with his wishes or the Devil would
> trick him and twist the positive wishes into
> negative results. Is Klemp a Genie, or a Devil?
> And, is Suzanne that delusional that she would
> kiss a toad (for real) or was this just a dream?
> It's unclear!
>
> Actually, Suzanne misinterpreted the message
> that "Soul" provided her. Klemp is the "Toad"
> representing earthly limitations, initiations,
> and desires. She (Soul), as the Prince/Princess,
> represents the Divine. She IS, already, what
> she seeks!
>
> "A group of Eck musicians played an upbeat
> version of Amazing Grace next... One of the
> guitar players sang."
>
> [ME]: Was that Amazing Grace or Amazing HU?
> In reality, "Amazing HU" is a pirated version of
> "Amazing Grace!"
>
> "Suzanne returned to the stage to tell another
> story. She said that her car key snapped into
> two pieces suddenly a few days ago, AND she
> had left her cell phone at work, so she couldn't
> call anyone for help. (I remember this incident,
> which she told about on FACEBOOK very recently).
> She went into a nearby shop, where she asked
> if they had any Crazy Glue, a very strong
> household glue that is commonly used in the
> U.S. to fix things. They didn't have any, and the
> clerk told her that it wouldn't work on a car key,
> she tried it anyway. Suzanne was, then, advised
> to call a locksmith, which she did through AAA
> (automotive club). In 15 minutes, she had a new
> key made and was able to drive home.
>
> She noticed that this incident had highlighted
> a fear of hers, the fear of being stranded and
> not able to get home. She realized that she had
> the Mahanta's help all along. 'The Mahanta's has
> your back,' she said."
>
> [ME]: Actually, it sounds more like AAA has her back!
>
> This is a "Waking Dream." Klemp (the Mahanta)
> represents the "Crazy Glue" that Can't Fix KEY
> elements in Soul's (her) journey on the road of life.
> The "clerk" was Soul (via Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
> pointing out the errors of her thinking (beliefs) and
> AAA represented the Holy Spirit (unlocking Truth),
> as well as, Soul's (her) relationship with IT. This
> Waking Dream (and Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
> points out that Suzanne refused, at first, to listen
> to Soul (the clerk) concerning the "Crazy Glue"
> (Klemp). And, there is No Need for a middleman
> Mahanta (Crazy Glue) since HK won't/can't "Fix"
> all that he claims, or that people think he can "fix."
> Her "fear of being stranded and not making it home"
> is telling her that ECKankar will leave her "stranded"
> in the lower worlds and Will Not help her (Soul),
> from this point on, to return to the Ocean of Love
> and Mercy.
>
> [End of Part 2]
>
> Prometheus
>

i am really curious about your group as
i saw the name: eckankar survivors anonymous.
i started wondering what you people are surviving
from. being an eckist myself i always find it funny
when people leave eckankar and then start bickering
about it. i want you so called survivors to know this
one thing. the journey back to God is solely in your
hands and groups like eckankar are just there to help
you on this journey and no body forces you to join
eckankar likewise no body comes after you when you
leave. you are a free soul and have the right to enjoy
your freedom. so i wonder what you are surviving from.
keep searching.

ironlady

Dear Ironlady,
Glad you're asking. We are "surviving" life
and the lies, deceit and mistrust that we
experienced with yet another religion. This
time it was the New Age Religion of ECKankar!

The big problem with ECKankar, for believers,
is the facade created with the initiations. This
is the carrot that is dangled in front of EKists
and keeps them always wanting more, and
fearful to leave. Of course, the Co-dependency
and total reliance upon Klemp (M/LEM), is a
big problem too!

IF "the journey back to God is solely in your
hands" then why do you need Klemp? The M/
LEM, as a middleman, leads EKists around by
the nose and needs to approve and validate
your "inner" experiences via the printed word
or in seminar talks! Otherwise, your inner
experiences, as with Graham, might not be
truly "spiritual" and could come from KAL.
Even Graham chanted the HU to protect
himself and to validate the experience. He
also called upon the Mahanta as well! Thus,
ECKists must "second guess" the Mahanta
and assume they are dealing with him until
HK indicates (via snail mail) otherwise. Often,
the answer never comes. This is why all "stories"
need to be "approved" first. Soul is Not permitted
to trust Itself or the Holy Spirit without Klemp's
outer validation!

If Soul is Divine and is One with the Holy
Spirit then why does It need Initiations and
have to pay an annual fee in order to maintain
these "inner" initiations? Why does an advanced
Soul need a Physical Plane Religion based upon
the Mental Plane thoughts and words from
"Holy Books" that are plagiarized and distorted
from Twitchell's former religion Ruhani Satsang?
Where are the Holy Shariyats, Books 3&4 from
Klemp? Twitchell claims to have channeled Books
1&2, so why can't Klemp channel or write 3&4?

We former Ekists don't really have problems
with most ECKists since we've been there,
done that and bought the tee shirt too!

However, since ECKankar is a secretive organization
and is less than honest, with the public and with
newcomers and long-time ECkists, we are here
to expose the lies and cover-up. ECKankar doesn't
permit discussion of most topics that we discuss
on this site.

After all, Klemp didn't even mention that Darwin
Gross, (the 972nd LEM), who initiated HK as LEM
had died in March 2008! Klemp couldn't even say
something nice about Darwin! Most long-time ECKists,
including Klemp, owe DG thanks for several initiations!

This site (and others) offer an alternative and
honest perspective of ECKankar that is not available
within the ECKankar RESA structure or on the EK
sites of HU Chat and Chela Chat. At least this Group
has the Freedom to disagree with Klemp whereas
HU Chat and Chela Chat members can't! Where is
your "Freedom" as an ECKist to express yourself
when you disagree with the "Guidelines," etc. or
with the simple-mined and one dimensional redundant
stories you hear? Or, are you so brain-washed
that you don't want to and can't see it!

As far as not being forced to leave ECKankar...
Well, there are threats that are made to those
who reject the Mahanta. And, EK dogma states
that when one takes the Second Initiation that
one is an ECKist forever... regardless! Strange
though, that with Klemp, if a chela lets their
membership lapse, with non-payment after 5
years, that the chela will have to begin again,
usually, as a 1st initiate rather than a 2nd. One
has to wonder how Soul lost both outer and inner
initiations by not paying a fee for something
that should have been Free in the first place!

Prometheus

Hmmm wasn't the book entitled, "Child in the wilderness"?  I have had a brain
drain of most all things eckankrap, so forgive me....   ;-)

Etznab, jumping off that bridge was Klemp's path to "GOD REALIZATION" as was
getting NAKED in the airport and running free with his three buddies for all to
see!  ;-) LOL

Won't address his story or "excuse" for where he ended up after those examples
of GOD REALIZATION, since we all might be called crazy for believing it! And,
didn't he think he was clever while locked up in the funny farm.....  fooled all
those educated people working there doing their jobs trying to help the poor god
realized master of the entire universe!

No need to anaylize any further my friend, I completely understand.

Big Hug!
ElizaBeth



--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
>
> Liz,
>
>    Good to hear from you again :)
>
>    I recently re read the stories about Harold
> Klemp on the bridge and at the airport - after
> his reported God-Realization experience.
>
>    It was difficult to read. For me.
>
>    On the bridge, it seemed to me, some guy
> (the bridge-tender) kept changing between an
> "Eck Master" and a regular guy. He even had
> a friend. Some guy who, apparently, changed
> from the Kal Niranjan to an ordinary guy. The
> two of these guys drive off in a car and Harold
> jumps in a river. That was ironic, I thought, an
> Eck Master & the Kal Niranjan driving away in
> a car together! Well, I mean, two people that
> Harold Klemp "might have" imagined were an
> Eck Master and the Kal Niranjan. Apparently,
> neither one of them came back to help Harold
> Klemp out of the river!
>
>    I realized that, up till now, I hadn't reviewed
> the details in those stories with a critical eye.
> Now I'm not sure I even want to go there.
>
> Etznab
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elizabeth <ewickings@...>
> To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 8:12 am
> Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Hello all... still living a non
> eck life and couldn't be happier!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Good morning all,
>
>
>
> Well surprise surprise here I am again after how many months?  LOL Just
> wanted to check in and see how everyone is doing?
>
>
>
> Was just thinking recently about how long it has been since I finally
> took the steps (courage) to just get real and walk away from this
> path... Hmmm it's coming up on 6yrs soon, after being a member of
> eckankrap for over 30yrs.
>
>
>
> I really haven't had the time to catch up on all of the messages being
> posted, I assume everyone is doing a bang up job of keeping it real!
>
>
>
> Etznab I see your name posted here quite a lot, so I am looking forward
> to your comments, as they always have been eye opening, and as always I
> surely appreciate your balance!
>
>
>
> Wish I had some awe inspiring message today, maybe something new and
> juicy to offer for your entertainment... but little ol me is just
> living life even in these hard economic times, still appreciate all the
> gifts still out there that are totally free!  Like taking a walk in the
> woods and connecting with that real temple within, or feeling the
> breeze on my face as I lift it to the sun.... awesome to know that no
> matter where we walk, it is all spiritual ground! No master or guru
> telling you which turn is correct, or how much money you must pay to
> belong.  Nor the pressure to feel you have to be a good eckankrap
> cultbot and bring more sheep to the feet of the master! LOL
>
>
>
> By the way, I haven't given up on my eck bashing on the net, just doing
> it in a clean up sort of fashion, going behind the brain dead eckies
> that are trying to spead the good word in virtual reality social
> networks....  yep the net is evolving and so are the tactics these
> brainwashed eckies have become.
>
>
>
> Enjoy the gifts that are right in front of your faces.... come out from
> your inner hidding and live life. :)
>
>
>
> Lots of love and hugs to my friends here, I've missed you all!
>
> ElizaBeth
>

Hello "Ironlady" -

"Survivor" is an appropriate word to use for people who wake up and leave a
cult, and go on to reclaim their lives.

Let me put it in different terms, something you might understand.  You're a
happy eckist, obviously, just like I was - grateful for the blessing of being on
a wonderful & "special" spiritual path, doing my best to "be the hu" 24/7, close
"connection" to "the master", "ecksperiences" out the wazoo, etc.  For me, it
was sort of like being in an absolutely perfect marriage with the most wonderful
perfect husband.  Then one day I come home and find him in bed having sex with a
dog.

It was all a lie, a deliberate deception.  Right from the very first "dream
experience" long before I had the misfortune to pick up the "donated" library
book, placed there by the new-age equivalent of a JW door-knocker, and
recognized the picture of Klemp - it was the guy in a robe in that dream!

Anyway, after I got out, that first dream-experience made more sense.  No, it
wasn't a nice spirichul "first initiation" getting-chosen thank Sugmad dream
experience like the book tells you.  Oh, I think it was "real" but I
misinterpreted.  In the dream, we were in a mansion & Klemp had just led me
*down* a big stairway where it was very bright and I wanted to stay there.  He
said it was his father's mansion and I was going to live there.  I asked, isn't
there a nice little cottage on the grounds?  He was guiding me into a dark
"luxurious" type room (unattractive to me) with big heavy furniture, no windows,
a giant-screen TV, and I didn't want to go in.

I made a big mistake.  I didn't read the dream correctly, so when I found that
eckbook with the picture I didn't stop, ended up getting more eckbooks that
seemed to explain a lot of things I was experiencing - well, that stuff was
PLAGIARIZED!!!!  Anyway, I joined - I didn't realize that joining was giving
psychic vampires permission to enter my consciousness.

Well, many years later I heard of the internet, and wondered - Klemp had written
something about it, said it was very negative and he'd barely escaped in time. 
But on the other hand, eckists were being encouraged to get on the internet and
recruit - always using the official disclaimer on webpages, of course.  I'd been
in long enough, I knew any questions & doubts were just the "KAL", so I stifled
as I'd stifled so many other things over the years.  How dare I wonder why "The
Master" had to run from the internet?  If he couldn't protect himself, how was
he going to protect the chelas?

But, eventually I got on the internet, all excited because I could share
"Spirit" and help guide others to the joy I'd found.  But, the first place I
landed was alt.religion.eckankar.  I was shocked and confused.  How could people
not just leave this wonderful path and even worse, speak against it!!  Well,
after just a few days I found links to eck-only places, and ran to them.  But I
always remembered those poor lost souls, and eventually felt I was strong enough
to help lead them back to "the light".

I didn't judge them or get pissed off, or blow them off as "angry" or "they
didn't work hard enough at the spex", etc.

After all, I'd read in the eckbooks - although I couldn't believe it - that some
*would* make the big mistake of leaving "the master" and then have to suffer
many horrible incarnations before He would take them back again.

Anyway, it actually didnā€™t take that long to wake up and see the truth, and
resign.  Oh ā€" you donā€™t undo of almost 15 years of brainwashing overnight.  
For some time, one personal theory that made sense to me was that of course
ā€�The Masterā€¯ had to lie about the plagiarism, because the truth might be too
much of a shock to too many eckists, who couldnā€™t look beyond the obvious lies
& literary theft and still see ā€�the truthā€¯.   But I have this personal
ā€�thingā€¯ about honesty, in myself as well as others.  I could not be true to
myself and support lies.

Well, thatā€™s only one part of it.  Iā€™m going to try to be brief here, I just
wish that I hadnā€™t done so much speaking out at a.r.e., if I knew then what I
knew now, Iā€™d have just put it all on a website to begin with.  Still have to
do that.

Another big part of my leaving was seeing absolute *proof* that all that
ā€�loveā€¯ ekult preached was a lie, was other eckists.  Yep, those ā€�chosen
peopleā€¯ high-holey-initiates and ā€�clergyā€¯ and RESAs, specially chosen by
ā€�The Masterā€¯ on the ā€�higher planesā€¯ and all that other eckancrap.   The
proof is in the pudding.

Prometheus mentioned that initiations are an issue.  Well, they werenā€™t really
an issue with me, right from the beginning.  When I got my pink slip for the
first, I was a bit surprised at the letter that basically said Iā€™d
ā€�masteredā€¯ the physical plane and congratulations, now I could tackle the
ā€�astralā€¯.  I just thought ā€�excuse meā€¯?   Hey, I *know* me, on the
ā€�innerā€¯ as well as the ā€�outerā€¯!    So, even before a skuzzy low-life HI
said he really wanted to do my 4th ā€" Iā€™d mentioned that I didnā€™t want more
initiations ā€" Iā€™d  decided that my ā€�spiritual lifeā€¯ was going to be like
my ā€�lifeā€¯ life, where Iā€™m more ā€�Montessoriā€¯ than ā€�public schoolā€¯,
donā€™t like report cards & grade levels, etc.   Anyway, this HI ā€" and please,
read the ā€�teachingsā€¯ on what it takes to become an HI and how itā€™s all
ā€�on the innerā€¯ and earned, etc., and how the LIs should trust them & be
guided by them, and even check out the meanings of their dreams with them ā€"
hey, I can give you QUOTES!!!   Well, this HI kept nagging and even emailed me,
begging, said he was going to tell me a big high-holey initiatorā€™s
ā€�secretā€¯ about the initiations, that it was sort of like Whoopi Goldeberg
letting Patrick Swayze use her body in ā€�Ghostā€¯ ā€" he got off on them!!!!  
And he thought my initiation would be especially powerful.  What a
perv!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, ekult is even worse than the Catholic Church, which doesnā€™t
ā€�hypeā€¯ priests the way ekult hypes its His.  Gawd, I was sort of scared to
go to my first ekult bookstudy because there was no way, no how that I was one
of those ā€�chosen peopleā€¯ Iā€™d read about!   What a hoot!!!   Catholics are
simply told that when a priest is administering the sacraments theyā€™re legit,
no matter how many altar boys heā€™s buggering in his ā€�offā€¯ time. Ekult
hypes this ā€�higher consciousnessā€¯ b.s. from the top down.  Youā€™re supposed
to believe that Klemp holds this ā€�highestā€¯ consciousness but itā€™s sort of 
like holding an elected office, in spite of all the ā€�teachingsā€¯ saying
otherwise.  That just plain makes *no* sense.

Okay, Iā€™m probably sort of rambling and not making any sense here on this
particular subject.   But think about it.  And check the ā€�teachingsā€¯.  
Donā€™t kid yourself.   Right now you and many others have fallen for it, hook
line & sinker, and youā€™ve worked really hard at it, brainwashing yourself with
those self-hypnotic ā€�spiritual exercisesā€¯, and youā€™ve totally handed over
your mind, heart, and soul to a big lie.

Have you read Ford Johnsonā€™s book?   Itā€™s free on the internet now.  He did
a good job in compiling everything thatā€™s been on the internet, plus adding
his own personal stuff, and even starting up his own little (hopefully) cash-cow
non-cult ā€�spiritual teachingā€¯!!   Well, once an HI, sometimes always an HI.
At least heā€™s not quite a few other former eckists who announce they got the
ā€�Rodā€¯ but canā€™t use those copyrighted eckwords & master-names.  <ggg> 
What a hoot!!!

Oh, I recently ran across some people selling the ā€�huā€¯, forget where,
non-religious, more like a Hollywood-celebrity thing like those red
ā€�Kabbalahā€¯ strings or something.  Hang on, Iā€™ll find the
linkā€¦ā€¦http://www.thedreamdudes.com/Divine_Decision_Making_Page.php

You know, thatā€™s one thing I miss about not being a cult member anymore.  The
Hu.  It was truly my love song to god.  It was sacred.  Ekult defiled it.

Anyway, I gotta go, enough is enough.  But I suggest you donā€™t make
assumptions.  You know what they say about assumptions!   Iā€™d suggest you do
what I did ā€" be neutral, think about it, do a lot of research, use critical
thinking and donā€™t just skim over & blow off things like those eckthreats &
other obvious cultic-programming stuff, and maybe your TRUE ā€�inner masterā€¯
will guide you to whatā€™s true ā€" if you can turn off that phony ekult
bullshit & kick your pseudo-master out of the way.  Which reminds me of
something that really ā€�resonatedā€¯ with me a long time ago: 
http://geocities.com/eckcult/masters.html

Twitch plagiarized some good stuff, but twisted it around and added his personal
cultic manipulation stuff ā€" nothing new, actually, heā€™d studied cults and
their tactics, and basically spent his whole wasted, phony life trying to get
something from nothing, lying & manipulating & self-promoting his worthless
self.   Have to laugh, just remembered ā€" are you familiar with one of the
discourses about ā€�Thirty-Two Aspects of The Masterā€¯ or something like that?
Well, it wasnā€™t *totally* plagiarized, he took out the part about ā€�a real
master doesnā€™t ask for moneyā€¯ thatā€™s in the original.

Have a nice weekend, everyone!

Hugs,

Sharon

PS - By the way, you're wrong about "no body comes after you when you
leave".  But that's a whole 'nother story that many "detractors" can attest to. 
One of many things that woke me up & got me out.  If it looks like a duck,
quacks like a duck, etc. - it's a duck!!  Eckankar is *definitely* a cult!!  No
question about it.

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ironlady10000"
<ironlady10000@...> wrote:
>
> i am really curious about your group as
> i saw the name: eckankar survivors anonymous.
> i started wondering what you people are surviving
> from. being an eckist myself i always find it funny
> when people leave eckankar and then start bickering
> about it. i want you so called survivors to know this
> one thing. the journey back to God is solely in your
> hands and groups like eckankar are just there to help
> you on this journey and no body forces you to join
> eckankar likewise no body comes after you when you
> leave. you are a free soul and have the right to enjoy
> your freedom. so i wonder what you are surviving from.
> keep searching.
>
> ironlady
>
> Dear Ironlady,
> Glad you're asking. We are "surviving" life
> and the lies, deceit and mistrust that we
> experienced with yet another religion. This
> time it was the New Age Religion of ECKankar!
>
> The big problem with ECKankar, for believers,
> is the facade created with the initiations. This
> is the carrot that is dangled in front of EKists
> and keeps them always wanting more, and
> fearful to leave. Of course, the Co-dependency
> and total reliance upon Klemp (M/LEM), is a
> big problem too!
>
> IF "the journey back to God is solely in your
> hands" then why do you need Klemp? The M/
> LEM, as a middleman, leads EKists around by
> the nose and needs to approve and validate
> your "inner" experiences via the printed word
> or in seminar talks! Otherwise, your inner
> experiences, as with Graham, might not be
> truly "spiritual" and could come from KAL.
> Even Graham chanted the HU to protect
> himself and to validate the experience. He
> also called upon the Mahanta as well! Thus,
> ECKists must "second guess" the Mahanta
> and assume they are dealing with him until
> HK indicates (via snail mail) otherwise. Often,
> the answer never comes. This is why all "stories"
> need to be "approved" first. Soul is Not permitted
> to trust Itself or the Holy Spirit without Klemp's
> outer validation!
>
> If Soul is Divine and is One with the Holy
> Spirit then why does It need Initiations and
> have to pay an annual fee in order to maintain
> these "inner" initiations? Why does an advanced
> Soul need a Physical Plane Religion based upon
> the Mental Plane thoughts and words from
> "Holy Books" that are plagiarized and distorted
> from Twitchell's former religion Ruhani Satsang?
> Where are the Holy Shariyats, Books 3&4 from
> Klemp? Twitchell claims to have channeled Books
> 1&2, so why can't Klemp channel or write 3&4?
>
> We former Ekists don't really have problems
> with most ECKists since we've been there,
> done that and bought the tee shirt too!
>
> However, since ECKankar is a secretive organization
> and is less than honest, with the public and with
> newcomers and long-time ECkists, we are here
> to expose the lies and cover-up. ECKankar doesn't
> permit discussion of most topics that we discuss
> on this site.
>
> After all, Klemp didn't even mention that Darwin
> Gross, (the 972nd LEM), who initiated HK as LEM
> had died in March 2008! Klemp couldn't even say
> something nice about Darwin! Most long-time ECKists,
> including Klemp, owe DG thanks for several initiations!
>
> This site (and others) offer an alternative and
> honest perspective of ECKankar that is not available
> within the ECKankar RESA structure or on the EK
> sites of HU Chat and Chela Chat. At least this Group
> has the Freedom to disagree with Klemp whereas
> HU Chat and Chela Chat members can't! Where is
> your "Freedom" as an ECKist to express yourself
> when you disagree with the "Guidelines," etc. or
> with the simple-mined and one dimensional redundant
> stories you hear? Or, are you so brain-washed
> that you don't want to and can't see it!
>
> As far as not being forced to leave ECKankar...
> Well, there are threats that are made to those
> who reject the Mahanta. And, EK dogma states
> that when one takes the Second Initiation that
> one is an ECKist forever... regardless! Strange
> though, that with Klemp, if a chela lets their
> membership lapse, with non-payment after 5
> years, that the chela will have to begin again,
> usually, as a 1st initiate rather than a 2nd. One
> has to wonder how Soul lost both outer and inner
> initiations by not paying a fee for something
> that should have been Free in the first place!
>
> Prometheus
>

Whoops - not quite awake yet - where I wrote "Once an HI always an HI", that
didn't quite sound right, I just realized what I meant to say was "You can take
an HI out of the cult but you can't always take the cult out of the HI".  There
are many fine former HIs, as well as a few current ones.  People are what they
are, any changes/growth/whatever are because of their own choices & decisions,
altho it's not uncommon for cult members to claim the cult did all sorts of good
things for them.

But one thing, since my "job" is to point out the eckancrap, is...you can get
away with a lot more in ekult, especially when you're an HI.

Pedophila, for example.  Yep, you've got pervs who were personally "chosen" by
"THE MASTER" and earned the right & privilege to carry that Official ECK ID
card!!   The difference is, an eckist pedophile will rationalize with "karma"
nonsense.  And even when an eckist pedophile is convicted and jailed, especially
if they're an HI, other eckists will keep their heads in the sand and even
expect their victims to be polite!!   HA!!!!

Get real, you brainwashed befuddled cultpuppies!!!  Wake up and use the brains
that GOD (not Suggie) gave you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will always be *so* thankful for former members who had the guts and integrity
to speak the truth and help me wake up & get out, altho to be honest I'd sort of
tired & bored with doing it myself, but still have to finish that website.  I
promised myself, and also the many former members who sent me so much 'secret
stuff' because they were wisely fearful of ekult's lawsuits and wacko eckthug
"swordsmen".

Sharon

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <brighttigress@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello "Ironlady" -
>
> "Survivor" is an appropriate word to use for people who wake up and leave a
cult, and go on to reclaim their lives.
>
> Let me put it in different terms, something you might understand.  You're a
happy eckist, obviously, just like I was - grateful for the blessing of being on
a wonderful & "special" spiritual path, doing my best to "be the hu" 24/7, close
"connection" to "the master", "ecksperiences" out the wazoo, etc.  For me, it
was sort of like being in an absolutely perfect marriage with the most wonderful
perfect husband.  Then one day I come home and find him in bed having sex with a
dog.
>
> It was all a lie, a deliberate deception.  Right from the very first "dream
experience" long before I had the misfortune to pick up the "donated" library
book, placed there by the new-age equivalent of a JW door-knocker, and
recognized the picture of Klemp - it was the guy in a robe in that dream!
>
> Anyway, after I got out, that first dream-experience made more sense.  No, it
wasn't a nice spirichul "first initiation" getting-chosen thank Sugmad dream
experience like the book tells you.  Oh, I think it was "real" but I
misinterpreted.  In the dream, we were in a mansion & Klemp had just led me
*down* a big stairway where it was very bright and I wanted to stay there.  He
said it was his father's mansion and I was going to live there.  I asked, isn't
there a nice little cottage on the grounds?  He was guiding me into a dark
"luxurious" type room (unattractive to me) with big heavy furniture, no windows,
a giant-screen TV, and I didn't want to go in.
>
> I made a big mistake.  I didn't read the dream correctly, so when I found that
eckbook with the picture I didn't stop, ended up getting more eckbooks that
seemed to explain a lot of things I was experiencing - well, that stuff was
PLAGIARIZED!!!!  Anyway, I joined - I didn't realize that joining was giving
psychic vampires permission to enter my consciousness.
>
> Well, many years later I heard of the internet, and wondered - Klemp had
written something about it, said it was very negative and he'd barely escaped in
time.  But on the other hand, eckists were being encouraged to get on the
internet and recruit - always using the official disclaimer on webpages, of
course.  I'd been in long enough, I knew any questions & doubts were just the
"KAL", so I stifled as I'd stifled so many other things over the years.  How
dare I wonder why "The Master" had to run from the internet?  If he couldn't
protect himself, how was he going to protect the chelas?
>
> But, eventually I got on the internet, all excited because I could share
"Spirit" and help guide others to the joy I'd found.  But, the first place I
landed was alt.religion.eckankar.  I was shocked and confused.  How could people
not just leave this wonderful path and even worse, speak against it!!  Well,
after just a few days I found links to eck-only places, and ran to them.  But I
always remembered those poor lost souls, and eventually felt I was strong enough
to help lead them back to "the light".
>
> I didn't judge them or get pissed off, or blow them off as "angry" or "they
didn't work hard enough at the spex", etc.
>
> After all, I'd read in the eckbooks - although I couldn't believe it - that
some *would* make the big mistake of leaving "the master" and then have to
suffer many horrible incarnations before He would take them back again.
>
> Anyway, it actually didnā€™t take that long to wake up and see the truth, and
resign.  Oh ļæ½" you donā€™t undo of almost 15 years of brainwashing overnight.
For some time, one personal theory that made sense to me was that of course
ā€�The Masterā€¯ had to lie about the plagiarism, because the truth might be too
much of a shock to too many eckists, who couldnā€™t look beyond the obvious lies
& literary theft and still see ā€�the truthā€¯.   But I have this personal
ā€�thingā€¯ about honesty, in myself as well as others.  I could not be true to
myself and support lies.
>
> Well, thatā€™s only one part of it.  Iā€™m going to try to be brief here, I
just wish that I hadnā€™t done so much speaking out at a.r.e., if I knew then
what I knew now, Iā€™d have just put it all on a website to begin with.  Still
have to do that.
>
> Another big part of my leaving was seeing absolute *proof* that all that
ā€�loveā€¯ ekult preached was a lie, was other eckists.  Yep, those ā€�chosen
peopleā€¯ high-holey-initiates and ā€�clergyā€¯ and RESAs, specially chosen by
ā€�The Masterā€¯ on the ā€�higher planesā€¯ and all that other eckancrap.   The
proof is in the pudding.
>
> Prometheus mentioned that initiations are an issue.  Well, they werenā€™t
really an issue with me, right from the beginning.  When I got my pink slip for
the first, I was a bit surprised at the letter that basically said Iā€™d
ā€�masteredā€¯ the physical plane and congratulations, now I could tackle the
ā€�astralā€¯.  I just thought ā€�excuse meā€¯?   Hey, I *know* me, on the
ā€�innerā€¯ as well as the ā€�outerā€¯!    So, even before a skuzzy low-life HI
said he really wanted to do my 4th ļæ½" Iā€™d mentioned that I didnā€™t want
more initiations ļæ½" Iā€™d  decided that my ā€�spiritual lifeā€¯ was going to
be like my ā€�lifeā€¯ life, where Iā€™m more ā€�Montessoriā€¯ than ā€�public
schoolā€¯, donā€™t like report cards & grade levels, etc.   Anyway, this HI ļæ½"
and please, read the ā€�teachingsā€¯ on what it takes to become an HI and how
itā€™s all ā€�on the innerā€¯ and earned, etc., and how the LIs should trust
them & be guided by them, and even check out the meanings of their dreams with
them ļæ½" hey, I can give you QUOTES!!!   Well, this HI kept nagging and even
emailed me, begging, said he was going to tell me a big high-holey initiatorā€™s
ā€�secretā€¯ about the initiations, that it was sort of like Whoopi Goldeberg
letting Patrick Swayze use her body in ā€�Ghostā€¯ ļæ½" he got off on them!!!!  
And he thought my initiation would be especially powerful.  What a
perv!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> You know, ekult is even worse than the Catholic Church, which doesnā€™t
ā€�hypeā€¯ priests the way ekult hypes its His.  Gawd, I was sort of scared to
go to my first ekult bookstudy because there was no way, no how that I was one
of those ā€�chosen peopleā€¯ Iā€™d read about!   What a hoot!!!   Catholics are
simply told that when a priest is administering the sacraments theyā€™re legit,
no matter how many altar boys heā€™s buggering in his ā€�offā€¯ time. Ekult
hypes this ā€�higher consciousnessā€¯ b.s. from the top down.  Youā€™re supposed
to believe that Klemp holds this ā€�highestā€¯ consciousness but itā€™s sort of 
like holding an elected office, in spite of all the ā€�teachingsā€¯ saying
otherwise.  That just plain makes *no* sense.
>
> Okay, Iā€™m probably sort of rambling and not making any sense here on this
particular subject.   But think about it.  And check the ā€�teachingsā€¯.  
Donā€™t kid yourself.   Right now you and many others have fallen for it, hook
line & sinker, and youā€™ve worked really hard at it, brainwashing yourself with
those self-hypnotic ā€�spiritual exercisesā€¯, and youā€™ve totally handed over
your mind, heart, and soul to a big lie.
>
> Have you read Ford Johnsonā€™s book?   Itā€™s free on the internet now.  He
did a good job in compiling everything thatā€™s been on the internet, plus
adding his own personal stuff, and even starting up his own little (hopefully)
cash-cow non-cult ā€�spiritual teachingā€¯!!   Well, once an HI, sometimes
always an HI.   At least heā€™s not quite a few other former eckists who
announce they got the ā€�Rodā€¯ but canā€™t use those copyrighted eckwords &
master-names.  <ggg>  What a hoot!!!
>
> Oh, I recently ran across some people selling the ā€�huā€¯, forget where,
non-religious, more like a Hollywood-celebrity thing like those red
ā€�Kabbalahā€¯ strings or something.  Hang on, Iā€™ll find the
linkā€¦ā€¦http://www.thedreamdudes.com/Divine_Decision_Making_Page.php
>
> You know, thatā€™s one thing I miss about not being a cult member anymore. 
The Hu.  It was truly my love song to god.  It was sacred.  Ekult defiled it.
>
> Anyway, I gotta go, enough is enough.  But I suggest you donā€™t make
assumptions.  You know what they say about assumptions!   Iā€™d suggest you do
what I did ļæ½" be neutral, think about it, do a lot of research, use critical
thinking and donā€™t just skim over & blow off things like those eckthreats &
other obvious cultic-programming stuff, and maybe your TRUE ā€�inner masterā€¯
will guide you to whatā€™s true ļæ½" if you can turn off that phony ekult
bullshit & kick your pseudo-master out of the way.  Which reminds me of
something that really ā€�resonatedā€¯ with me a long time ago: 
http://geocities.com/eckcult/masters.html
>
> Twitch plagiarized some good stuff, but twisted it around and added his
personal cultic manipulation stuff ļæ½" nothing new, actually, heā€™d studied
cults and their tactics, and basically spent his whole wasted, phony life trying
to get something from nothing, lying & manipulating & self-promoting his
worthless self.   Have to laugh, just remembered ļæ½" are you familiar with one
of the discourses about ā€�Thirty-Two Aspects of The Masterā€¯ or something like
that?   Well, it wasnā€™t *totally* plagiarized, he took out the part about ā€�a
real master doesnā€™t ask for moneyā€¯ thatā€™s in the original.
>
> Have a nice weekend, everyone!
>
> Hugs,
>
> Sharon
>
> PS - By the way, you're wrong about "no body comes after you when you
> leave".  But that's a whole 'nother story that many "detractors" can attest
to.  One of many things that woke me up & got me out.  If it looks like a duck,
quacks like a duck, etc. - it's a duck!!  Eckankar is *definitely* a cult!!  No
question about it.
>
> --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ironlady10000"
<ironlady10000@> wrote:
> >
> > i am really curious about your group as
> > i saw the name: eckankar survivors anonymous.
> > i started wondering what you people are surviving
> > from. being an eckist myself i always find it funny
> > when people leave eckankar and then start bickering
> > about it. i want you so called survivors to know this
> > one thing. the journey back to God is solely in your
> > hands and groups like eckankar are just there to help
> > you on this journey and no body forces you to join
> > eckankar likewise no body comes after you when you
> > leave. you are a free soul and have the right to enjoy
> > your freedom. so i wonder what you are surviving from.
> > keep searching.
> >
> > ironlady
> >
> > Dear Ironlady,
> > Glad you're asking. We are "surviving" life
> > and the lies, deceit and mistrust that we
> > experienced with yet another religion. This
> > time it was the New Age Religion of ECKankar!
> >
> > The big problem with ECKankar, for believers,
> > is the facade created with the initiations. This
> > is the carrot that is dangled in front of EKists
> > and keeps them always wanting more, and
> > fearful to leave. Of course, the Co-dependency
> > and total reliance upon Klemp (M/LEM), is a
> > big problem too!
> >
> > IF "the journey back to God is solely in your
> > hands" then why do you need Klemp? The M/
> > LEM, as a middleman, leads EKists around by
> > the nose and needs to approve and validate
> > your "inner" experiences via the printed word
> > or in seminar talks! Otherwise, your inner
> > experiences, as with Graham, might not be
> > truly "spiritual" and could come from KAL.
> > Even Graham chanted the HU to protect
> > himself and to validate the experience. He
> > also called upon the Mahanta as well! Thus,
> > ECKists must "second guess" the Mahanta
> > and assume they are dealing with him until
> > HK indicates (via snail mail) otherwise. Often,
> > the answer never comes. This is why all "stories"
> > need to be "approved" first. Soul is Not permitted
> > to trust Itself or the Holy Spirit without Klemp's
> > outer validation!
> >
> > If Soul is Divine and is One with the Holy
> > Spirit then why does It need Initiations and
> > have to pay an annual fee in order to maintain
> > these "inner" initiations? Why does an advanced
> > Soul need a Physical Plane Religion based upon
> > the Mental Plane thoughts and words from
> > "Holy Books" that are plagiarized and distorted
> > from Twitchell's former religion Ruhani Satsang?
> > Where are the Holy Shariyats, Books 3&4 from
> > Klemp? Twitchell claims to have channeled Books
> > 1&2, so why can't Klemp channel or write 3&4?
> >
> > We former Ekists don't really have problems
> > with most ECKists since we've been there,
> > done that and bought the tee shirt too!
> >
> > However, since ECKankar is a secretive organization
> > and is less than honest, with the public and with
> > newcomers and long-time ECkists, we are here
> > to expose the lies and cover-up. ECKankar doesn't
> > permit discussion of most topics that we discuss
> > on this site.
> >
> > After all, Klemp didn't even mention that Darwin
> > Gross, (the 972nd LEM), who initiated HK as LEM
> > had died in March 2008! Klemp couldn't even say
> > something nice about Darwin! Most long-time ECKists,
> > including Klemp, owe DG thanks for several initiations!
> >
> > This site (and others) offer an alternative and
> > honest perspective of ECKankar that is not available
> > within the ECKankar RESA structure or on the EK
> > sites of HU Chat and Chela Chat. At least this Group
> > has the Freedom to disagree with Klemp whereas
> > HU Chat and Chela Chat members can't! Where is
> > your "Freedom" as an ECKist to express yourself
> > when you disagree with the "Guidelines," etc. or
> > with the simple-mined and one dimensional redundant
> > stories you hear? Or, are you so brain-washed
> > that you don't want to and can't see it!
> >
> > As far as not being forced to leave ECKankar...
> > Well, there are threats that are made to those
> > who reject the Mahanta. And, EK dogma states
> > that when one takes the Second Initiation that
> > one is an ECKist forever... regardless! Strange
> > though, that with Klemp, if a chela lets their
> > membership lapse, with non-payment after 5
> > years, that the chela will have to begin again,
> > usually, as a 1st initiate rather than a 2nd. One
> > has to wonder how Soul lost both outer and inner
> > initiations by not paying a fee for something
> > that should have been Free in the first place!
> >
> > Prometheus
> >
>

Well, Ironlady--it must be nice for you to see your post
here! I know that Prometheus and non-eckists could not
come onto any of the chela yahoo groups like HuChat
and Chela Chat and post in kind! And I know that unless
a person is a member of one of the chela yahoo groups,
non members cannot even read the posts there which is
the opposite  to what non members can do here! I have a
question for you--why is that? Why so secretive? Are eckists
afraid? And if so--what are they afraid of? Prometheus is to be
commended as well as Sharon on Eckanktruth and other
anti-eckankar groups for allowing access to anyone to read
the posts! I can tell you that secretive orgs just wave big
red flags for me! Sort of like a stranger offering candy to
a little child . . . . sneaky and possibly dangerous!

You wrote:
"i want you so called survivors to know this
  one thing. the journey back to God is solely in your
  hands and groups like eckankar are just there to help
you on this journey"

Have you ever considered that God is always there with you
and that there is no need to be led back to God--you've never
been separated? When an individual allows someone like HK
and his deceitful org to "intercede" for you, that you have just
allowed an impediment to stop the natural flow of Soul with
Divine Spirit. The inner and outer connections with God were
born within us and recognition of this is within the power,
abilities and intelligence of each of us. Eckankrap is just krap,
and spending time and money fooling around with it is just a
big waste and rather sad IMO! I can guarantee that you will
not be "allowed" to reach God Realization as long as you follow
HK--there is only room for one superior god realized soul as
far as he is concerned and that's him . . . because he's selfish,
a liar and a thief. He's dishonest!

What have I survived? I've survived being a fool--for having
fallen (for a brief time) for a con! I can't believe that I actually
did that--biggest mistake of my life! Eckankar took me on a
path away from the Truth and if I hadn't realized it, I'd still be
there now and I would be living this lifetime in a huge state of
delusion! Eckankar was silencing and taking me away
from my Inner Voice, by trickery--this is how the way the
law of silence operates in eckankar . . . and this is why I speak
out here! Yeah, eckankar and eckists would love it if we former
eckists would apply the law of silence that was taught-making it
so much easier for the con, wouldn't it!! LOL!

BTW, glad you are curious about EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous--
at least you are looking, even if you don't like what you see! It's
a beginning for you! Please keep reading the archives and links.
If you want to read the files which can only be viewed by members,
please feel free to join as a member. There's no real requirement to
become a member but of course there are some restrictions
concerning posts . . . but those are reasonable as pointed out
in the site description posted on the front page! Keep searching
for the real Truth! Remember Truth is free! Good luck!

Mish

p.s. I'm going to repost the story of how Joan left her first
husband to work for eckankar in California. It's located in
the file section and the links . . . but I think you'll enjoy reading
the story so I'll put it back out here! : )


--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ironlady10000"
<ironlady10000@...> wrote:
>
> i am really curious about your group as
> i saw the name: eckankar survivors anonymous.
> i started wondering what you people are surviving
> from. being an eckist myself i always find it funny
> when people leave eckankar and then start bickering
> about it. i want you so called survivors to know this
> one thing. the journey back to God is solely in your
> hands and groups like eckankar are just there to help
> you on this journey and no body forces you to join
> eckankar likewise no body comes after you when you
> leave. you are a free soul and have the right to enjoy
> your freedom. so i wonder what you are surviving from.
> keep searching.
>
> ironlady
>
> Dear Ironlady,
> Glad you're asking. We are "surviving" life
> and the lies, deceit and mistrust that we
> experienced with yet another religion. This
> time it was the New Age Religion of ECKankar!
>
> The big problem with ECKankar, for believers,
> is the facade created with the initiations. This
> is the carrot that is dangled in front of EKists
> and keeps them always wanting more, and
> fearful to leave. Of course, the Co-dependency
> and total reliance upon Klemp (M/LEM), is a
> big problem too!
>
> IF "the journey back to God is solely in your
> hands" then why do you need Klemp? The M/
> LEM, as a middleman, leads EKists around by
> the nose and needs to approve and validate
> your "inner" experiences via the printed word
> or in seminar talks! Otherwise, your inner
> experiences, as with Graham, might not be
> truly "spiritual" and could come from KAL.
> Even Graham chanted the HU to protect
> himself and to validate the experience. He
> also called upon the Mahanta as well! Thus,
> ECKists must "second guess" the Mahanta
> and assume they are dealing with him until
> HK indicates (via snail mail) otherwise. Often,
> the answer never comes. This is why all "stories"
> need to be "approved" first. Soul is Not permitted
> to trust Itself or the Holy Spirit without Klemp's
> outer validation!
>
> If Soul is Divine and is One with the Holy
> Spirit then why does It need Initiations and
> have to pay an annual fee in order to maintain
> these "inner" initiations? Why does an advanced
> Soul need a Physical Plane Religion based upon
> the Mental Plane thoughts and words from
> "Holy Books" that are plagiarized and distorted
> from Twitchell's former religion Ruhani Satsang?
> Where are the Holy Shariyats, Books 3&4 from
> Klemp? Twitchell claims to have channeled Books
> 1&2, so why can't Klemp channel or write 3&4?
>
> We former Ekists don't really have problems
> with most ECKists since we've been there,
> done that and bought the tee shirt too!
>
> However, since ECKankar is a secretive organization
> and is less than honest, with the public and with
> newcomers and long-time ECkists, we are here
> to expose the lies and cover-up. ECKankar doesn't
> permit discussion of most topics that we discuss
> on this site.
>
> After all, Klemp didn't even mention that Darwin
> Gross, (the 972nd LEM), who initiated HK as LEM
> had died in March 2008! Klemp couldn't even say
> something nice about Darwin! Most long-time ECKists,
> including Klemp, owe DG thanks for several initiations!
>
> This site (and others) offer an alternative and
> honest perspective of ECKankar that is not available
> within the ECKankar RESA structure or on the EK
> sites of HU Chat and Chela Chat. At least this Group
> has the Freedom to disagree with Klemp whereas
> HU Chat and Chela Chat members can't! Where is
> your "Freedom" as an ECKist to express yourself
> when you disagree with the "Guidelines," etc. or
> with the simple-mined and one dimensional redundant
> stories you hear? Or, are you so brain-washed
> that you don't want to and can't see it!
>
> As far as not being forced to leave ECKankar...
> Well, there are threats that are made to those
> who reject the Mahanta. And, EK dogma states
> that when one takes the Second Initiation that
> one is an ECKist forever... regardless! Strange
> though, that with Klemp, if a chela lets their
> membership lapse, with non-payment after 5
> years, that the chela will have to begin again,
> usually, as a 1st initiate rather than a 2nd. One
> has to wonder how Soul lost both outer and inner
> initiations by not paying a fee for something
> that should have been Free in the first place!
>
> Prometheus
>

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@...>
wrote:


"Disappearing into the black hole of Eckankar" is how one former friend
of Joan Cross described how she left her husband at Clemson University
  for the teachings of eckankar.

Click on the link below for the complete essay, but I have copied the
portion that mentions the writer's friends Robert and Joan Cross and
  Joan's sudden bolt from her husband to join the eckankar cult in
California in the late 1970s.

BTW, the writer is Sterling "Skip" Eisiminger, a professor emeritus of
English and Humanities at Clemson University, teaching there since
1968.

http://www.clemson.edu/caah/cedp/FAcademicus/061-067_religious_life.pdf

  and the excerpt:

  HONK IF YOU LOVE VOLTAIRE: A RELIGIOUS LIFE

  . . .  I wouldn't call cults a main dish on the church picnic table, but I did
  pick at one dish when a friend disappeared into the black hole of Eckankar.
When I came to Clemson, I was assigned to Professor Bob Cross for mentoring.
Bob and I hit it off  from the start, but what fascinated me most about Bob was
the relationship he had with his wife. The two were inseparable. Fortunately,
there were no children, for a Cross child would have found the competition stiff
for parental love. At work, they asked for and received one office with facing
  desks. At home, they read science fiction and took long walks together with
their poodle. Perhaps I missed the warning signs, but Bob missed them as
well, for we were both stunned when Joan announced, "Earth is the hell for all
planets circling Alpha Centauri." She, for one, was moving to California to have
her astral shoes "resouled" as the new editor of the Eckankar Journal. In her
spare time, she and her fellow Eckankar disciples planned to travel to various
  planes of the Sugmad and serve their Eck master.

  In 1997, some twenty years later when I read of the thirty-nine Heaven's Gate
suicides, I scanned the list of the deceased fully expecting to find Joan's name
among those tailing the Hale-Bopp comet. Fortunately, Joan's name was not
among the missing. About the only cult that impresses me now is the
Frisbeeterian, not to be confused with the Presleyterian, which is interesting
to me only in an academic, pop culture sort of way. The former faction believes
that when someone dies, the soul goes up on a roof, and no one can retrieve it.
It makes as much sense as leaving a devoted husband for the unexplored
Sugmad. . . .

  (Joan later became HK's 2nd wife after he dumped Marge, his 1st.)

--- End forwarded message ---

Hello Sharon and All,
I think that those EK Initiations mean more
than most will admit to or even realize. After
all, every new EKist looks for that 1st one in
their dreams! Many EKists (who can't remember
their dreams like most people) will just have
to "trust" the EK dogma that they received it.
Some will grab-at-straws and look for "signs"
to justify any desired belief. Often, the 1st
initiation is confirmed when one asks for and
receives their 2nd Initiation (a very important
one according to ECKankar).

Thus, logic tells them that if they received a
2nd initiation this is proof that a 1st was also
received. And, let's not forget that the 5th
is also touted as being "very important." Thus,
by the time one receives the 5th (15-20 years,
normally, under Klemp's rule) most EKists are
pretty much brain-washed as to the importance
of these initiations. However, I've met a few
chelas who just wanted the 2nd initiation so
that they won't have to reincarnate again
(another religious promise).

Many L.I. EKists just don't want the hassle or
the responsibility or to be put under the magnifying
glass and/or spot-light. They are more private
and are more the introverted.

To be an EK Leader, on the Initiation "fast-track,"
means more work, more training, and a high profile
(sometimes fed by an overly inflated ego). There is
an attachment to the desire for more EK initiations.
EKists are told that the initiations represent "yardsticks"
of  "spiritual growth" and consciousness. And, of
course, the byproducts are cyclic in nature via achievements
in higher rank, greater positions, more power & status,
as well as, more service (time & coin) and responsibility.

However, the "higher" initiations prove the opposite.
The "Higher" EK Initiations indicate who has learned
to "play-the-game" (of religious membership). The
"Higher" they are the longer that they have learned
to play the (as if) game. Klemp even admits in his
book "Soul Travelers of the Far Country" that he tricked
the doctor and "played the game" to get out of the
Mental Institution in 1970! The imagination is key
in making ECKankar work and in "seeing" results.

Thus, the EK initiation facade and trap takes away
Soul's Divine Identity. Soul becomes distracted via
desire and limitation (initiation rank). And, even though
EKists don't have to pay or offer up a donation when
they receive an initiation they still have to pay or renew
that EK Membership in order to hang onto them! Thus,
EK Initiations are Not FREE after all!

Prometheus


Sharon wrote:

Hello "Ironlady" -

"Survivor" is an appropriate word to use
for people who wake up and leave a
cult, and go on to reclaim their lives.

Let me put it in different terms, something
you might understand. You're a happy eckist,
obviously, just like I was - grateful for the
blessing of being on a wonderful & "special"
spiritual path, doing my best to "be the hu"
24/7, close "connection" to "the master",
"ecksperiences" out the wazoo, etc. For me,
it was sort of like being in an absolutely perfect
marriage with the most wonderful perfect husband.
Then one day I come home and find him in bed
having sex with a dog.

It was all a lie, a deliberate deception. Right
from the very first "dream experience" long
before I had the misfortune to pick up the
"donated" library book, placed there by the
new-age equivalent of a JW door-knocker,
and recognized the picture of Klemp - it was
the guy in a robe in that dream!

Anyway, after I got out, that first dream-experience
made more sense. No, it wasn't a nice spirichul "first
initiation" getting-chosen thank Sugmad dream
experience like the book tells you. Oh, I think it was
"real" but I misinterpreted. In the dream, we were in
a mansion & Klemp had just led me *down* a big stairway
where it was very bright and I wanted to stay there.
He said it was his father's mansion and I was going
to live there. I asked, isn't there a nice little cottage
on the grounds? He was guiding me into a dark
"luxurious" type room (unattractive to me) with big
heavy furniture, no windows, a giant-screen TV, and
I didn't want to go in.

I made a big mistake. I didn't read the dream correctly,
so when I found that eckbook with the picture I didn't
stop, ended up getting more eckbooks that seemed to
explain a lot of things I was experiencing - well, that
stuff was PLAGIARIZED!!!! Anyway, I joined - I didn't realize
that joining was giving psychic vampires permission to
enter my consciousness.

Well, many years later I heard of the internet, and
wondered - Klemp had written something about it,
said it was very negative and he'd barely escaped in
time. But on the other hand, eckists were being encouraged
to get on the internet and recruit - always using the
official disclaimer on webpages, of course. I'd been
in long enough, I knew any questions & doubts were
just the "KAL", so I stifled as I'd stifled so many other
things over the years. How dare I wonder why "The
Master" had to run from the internet? If he couldn't
protect himself, how was he going to protect the chelas?

But, eventually I got on the internet, all excited
because I could share "Spirit" and help guide others
to the joy I'd found. But, the first place I landed was
alt.religion.eckankar. I was shocked and confused.
How could people not just leave this wonderful path
and even worse, speak against it!! Well, after just
a few days I found links to eck-only places, and ran
to them. But I always remembered those poor lost
souls, and eventually felt I was strong enough
to help lead them back to "the light".

I didn't judge them or get pissed off, or blow
them off as "angry" or "they didn't work hard
enough at the spex", etc.

After all, I'd read in the eckbooks - although
I couldn't believe it - that some *would* make
the big mistake of leaving "the master" and then
have to suffer many horrible incarnations before
He would take them back again.

Anyway, it actually didn't take that long to wake up and
see the truth, and resign. Oh you don't undo of almost
15 years of brainwashing overnight. For some time, one
personal theory that made sense to me was that of course
The Master¯ had to lie about the plagiarism, because the
truth might be too much of a shock to too many eckists,
who couldn't look beyond the obvious lies & literary theft
and still see the truth¯. But I have this personal thing¯ about
honesty, in myself as well as others. I could not be true to
myself and support lies.

Well, that's only one part of it. I'm going to try to be
brief here, I just wish that I hadn't done so much speaking
out at a.r.e., if I knew then what I knew now, I'd have just
put it all on a website to begin with. Still have to do that.

Another big part of my leaving was seeing absolute
*proof* that all that love¯ ekult preached was a lie,
was other eckists. Yep, those chosen people high-
holy-initiates and clergy¯ and RESAs, specially chosen
by The Master¯ on the higher planes¯ and all that other
eckancrap. The proof is in the pudding.

Prometheus mentioned that initiations are an issue.
Well, they weren't really an issue with me, right from
the beginning. When I got my pink slip for the
first, I was a bit surprised at the letter that basically
said I'd mastered¯ the physical plane and congratulations,
now I could tackle the astral¯. I just thought excuse
me? Hey, I *know* me, on the inner as well as the
outer¯! So, even before a skuzzy low-life HI said he
really wanted to do my 4th I'd mentioned that I didn't
want more initiations I'd decided that my spiritual life
was going to be like my life¯ life, where I'm more Montessori
than public school¯, don't like report cards & grade levels,
etc. Anyway, this HI and please, read the teachings¯ on
what it takes to become an HI and how it's all on the
inner and earned, etc., and how the LIs should trust
them & be guided by them, and even check out the
meanings of their dreams with them hey, I can give
you QUOTES!!! Well, this HI kept nagging and even
emailed me, begging, said he was going to tell me
a big high-holy initiator's secret¯ about the initiations,
that it was sort of like Whoopi Goldeberg letting Patrick
Swayze use her body in Ghost¯ he got off on them!!!!
And he thought my initiation would be especially
powerful. What a perv!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, ekult is even worse than the Catholic Church,
which doesn't hype¯ priests the way ekult hypes its His.
Gawd, I was sort of scared to go to my first ekult book study
because there was no way, no how that I was one of those
chosen people¯ I'd read about! What a hoot!!! Catholics are
simply told that when a priest is administering the sacraments
they're legit, no matter how many altar boys he's buggering
in his off¯ time. Ekult hypes this higher consciousness¯ b.s.
from the top down. You're supposed to believe that Klemp
holds this highest¯ consciousness but it's sort of like holding
an elected office, in spite of all the teachings¯ saying otherwise.
That just plain makes *no* sense.

Okay, I'm probably sort of rambling and not making any
sense here on this particular subject. But think about it.
And check the teachings¯. Don't kid yourself. Right now
you and many others have fallen for it, hook line & sinker,
and you've worked really hard at it, brainwashing yourself
with those self-hypnotic spiritual exercises, and you've
totally handed over your mind, heart, and soul to a big lie.

Have you read Ford Johnson's book? It's free on the internet
now. He did a good job in compiling everything that's been
on the internet, plus adding his own personal stuff, and even
starting up his own little (hopefully) cash-cow non-cult spiritual
teaching! Well, once an HI, sometimes always an HI. At least he's
not quite a few other former eckists who announce they got the
Rod¯ but can't use those copyrighted eckwords & master-names.
<ggg> What a hoot!!!

Oh, I recently ran across some people selling the hu¯,
forget where, non-religious, more like a Hollywood-
celebrity thing like those red Kabbalah strings or something.
Hang on, I'll find the link:
http://www.thedreamdudes.com/Divine_Decision_Making_Page.php

You know, that's one thing I miss about not being
a cult member anymore. The Hu. It was truly my love
song to god. It was sacred. Ekult defiled it.

Anyway, I gotta go, enough is enough. But I suggest you
don't make assumptions. You know what they say about
assumptions! I'd suggest you do what I did is be neutral,
think about it, do a lot of research, use critical thinking
and don't just skim over & blow off things like those eck
threats & other obvious cultic-programming stuff, and
maybe your TRUE inner master¯ will guide you to what's
true if you can turn off that phony ekult bullshit & kick
your pseudo-master out of the way. Which reminds me
of something that really resonated¯ with me a long time ago:
http://geocities.com/eckcult/masters.html

Twitch plagiarized some good stuff, but twisted it around
and added his personal cultic manipulation stuff nothing
new, actually, he'd studied cults and their tactics, and basically
spent his whole wasted, phony life trying to get something
from nothing, lying & manipulating & self-promoting his
worthless self. Have to laugh, just remembered  are you
familiar with one of the discourses about Thirty-Two Aspects
of The Master or something like that? Well, it wasn't *totally*
plagiarized, he took out the part about a real master doesn't
ask for money that's in the original.

Have a nice weekend, everyone!

Hugs,

Sharon

PS - By the way, you're wrong about "no body comes
after you when you leave". But that's a whole 'nother
story that many "detractors" can attest to. One of many
things that woke me up & got me out. If it looks like a duck,
quacks like a duck, etc. - it's a duck!! Eckankar is *definitely*
a cult!! No question about it.

ironlady10000 wrote:
>
> i am really curious about your group as
> i saw the name: eckankar survivors anonymous.
> i started wondering what you people are surviving
> from. being an eckist myself i always find it funny
> when people leave eckankar and then start bickering
> about it. i want you so called survivors to know this
> one thing. the journey back to God is solely in your
> hands and groups like eckankar are just there to help
> you on this journey and no body forces you to join
> eckankar likewise no body comes after you when you
> leave. you are a free soul and have the right to enjoy
> your freedom. so i wonder what you are surviving from.
> keep searching.
>
> ironlady
>
> Dear Ironlady,
> Glad you're asking. We are "surviving" life
> and the lies, deceit and mistrust that we
> experienced with yet another religion. This
> time it was the New Age Religion of ECKankar!
>
> The big problem with ECKankar, for believers,
> is the facade created with the initiations. This
> is the carrot that is dangled in front of EKists
> and keeps them always wanting more, and
> fearful to leave. Of course, the Co-dependency
> and total reliance upon Klemp (M/LEM), is a
> big problem too!
>
> IF "the journey back to God is solely in your
> hands" then why do you need Klemp? The M/
> LEM, as a middleman, leads EKists around by
> the nose and needs to approve and validate
> your "inner" experiences via the printed word
> or in seminar talks! Otherwise, your inner
> experiences, as with Graham, might not be
> truly "spiritual" and could come from KAL.
> Even Graham chanted the HU to protect
> himself and to validate the experience. He
> also called upon the Mahanta as well! Thus,
> ECKists must "second guess" the Mahanta
> and assume they are dealing with him until
> HK indicates (via snail mail) otherwise. Often,
> the answer never comes. This is why all "stories"
> need to be "approved" first. Soul is Not permitted
> to trust Itself or the Holy Spirit without Klemp's
> outer validation!
>
> If Soul is Divine and is One with the Holy
> Spirit then why does It need Initiations and
> have to pay an annual fee in order to maintain
> these "inner" initiations? Why does an advanced
> Soul need a Physical Plane Religion based upon
> the Mental Plane thoughts and words from
> "Holy Books" that are plagiarized and distorted
> from Twitchell's former religion Ruhani Satsang?
> Where are the Holy Shariyats, Books 3&4 from
> Klemp? Twitchell claims to have channeled Books
> 1&2, so why can't Klemp channel or write 3&4?
>
> We former Ekists don't really have problems
> with most ECKists since we've been there,
> done that and bought the tee shirt too!
>
> However, since ECKankar is a secretive organization
> and is less than honest, with the public and with
> newcomers and long-time ECkists, we are here
> to expose the lies and cover-up. ECKankar doesn't
> permit discussion of most topics that we discuss
> on this site.
>
> After all, Klemp didn't even mention that Darwin
> Gross, (the 972nd LEM), who initiated HK as LEM
> had died in March 2008! Klemp couldn't even say
> something nice about Darwin! Most long-time ECKists,
> including Klemp, owe DG thanks for several initiations!
>
> This site (and others) offer an alternative and
> honest perspective of ECKankar that is not available
> within the ECKankar RESA structure or on the EK
> sites of HU Chat and Chela Chat. At least this Group
> has the Freedom to disagree with Klemp whereas
> HU Chat and Chela Chat members can't! Where is
> your "Freedom" as an ECKist to express yourself
> when you disagree with the "Guidelines," etc. or
> with the simple-mined and one dimensional redundant
> stories you hear? Or, are you so brain-washed
> that you don't want to and can't see it!
>
> As far as not being forced to leave ECKankar...
> Well, there are threats that are made to those
> who reject the Mahanta. And, EK dogma states
> that when one takes the Second Initiation that
> one is an ECKist forever... regardless! Strange
> though, that with Klemp, if a chela lets their
> membership lapse, with non-payment after 5
> years, that the chela will have to begin again,
> usually, as a 1st initiate rather than a 2nd. One
> has to wonder how Soul lost both outer and inner
> initiations by not paying a fee for something
> that should have been Free in the first place!
>
> Prometheus
>

Klemp's 2009 Springtime Seminar talk:
"The Secret Path to Heaven"

Why is Klemp's ECKankar "Secret?"

Klemp now recounts 5 stories sent to him
by his chelas and ties their good fortune into
their belief of being helped by the Mahanta
(Klemp's personalized God-like inner essence),
or by Rebazar. And, one chela was "protected"
from perceived danger by chanting HU.
However, it should be pointed out that people,
of other religious beliefs, call upon Jesus
or their Prophet or God to help them when
in need and they often have even better results!
They will also "see" and experience the presence
via visitations, intercessions (miracles) with
their "Masters," Saints, and Prophets just like
EKists do, and these other Beings Are Not
EK Masters! In Truth, it is Soul! Others just
take the credit!

I'll paraphrase HK's stories to save time
and space.

#1 "Arthur, in Nigeria, took a bus to another
town to look for a job, but didn't have enough
money for the return trip. He used what money
he did have to get him as far as he could go
but still had a hour of walking to get home.
Since he had to walk through a bad high crime
area he began chanting HU. A man came to
him out of the dark and asked him to help
him because his car got stuck in some mud.
Arthur, with the help of the man's wife, pushed
the car out of the mud. The man thanked Arthur
by giving him money for the bus home. Arthur
realized that the man in the car was sent by
the Mahanta." [end]

So, due to Arthur's stupidity and lack of foresight
(not taking enough money for the bus home) we
now have an EK story! I wonder, was Arthur sent,
by the Mahanta, to help the man and woman out
of the mud? Anyhow, common everyday events
and outcomes are now attributed to Klemp's
"divine" intercession.

This next story of Klemp's is rather old (recycled)
since the EK Temple just opened.

#2 "Ellen was tutoring two children in their
living room during the summer. The window
was open and the dog across the street began
barking for 40 minutes. The children's father
said the dog has 120 barks in him and he won't
stop until he gets all of them out. These events
happened around the time the EK Temple in
Chanhassen first opened and many people
were unhappy about it because they were
afraid ECKankar was like other disreputable
groups. [cults]

`If we were one of THOSE groups we wouldn't
have come to Minnesota. We would have stayed
in California! Now, of course, I will hear from the
Californians! I'm joking. It was too expensive for
the ESC staff to live near the office, so one reason
we moved was to find a cheaper place for the
ESC staff to live.'

At that time Ellen was a tour guide at the Temple.
One day a woman came in ranting and raving.
She dumped her frustrations on Ellen who remembered
the dog with 120 barks. She decided that this
woman also had a certain number of words inside
so she listened [pretended to listen] until the woman
stopped speaking. When she was done the woman
said, `Thank you for being so kind.' The woman
agreed to take a tour of the Temple and when it
was over she gave Ellen a hug. Ever since that
time Ellen has always remembered the dog with
120 barks and vowed to listen to people without
opinions, just accepting them as Soul. Klemp
also added another comment about people who
vent their frustrations: `When it's all out, the show's
over.' [end]

This final comment shows Klemp's lack of empathy!
And let's face it, Ellen didn't "listen" to the woman or
else she would have recounted what her frustrations
were all about. We don't even know, for sure, if it
had anything to do with the new ECK Temple!
Instead, "Ellen" viewed this person like one would
view a dog! This EK Temple tour guide "listened"
to this woman's words like someone would listen
to a dog's barking!

Plus, Klemp didn't move ECKankar to Chanhassen
in order to give the ESC staff cheap housing near
work! LOL! No one wanted to move from sunny
California to cold and grey Minnesota! That's a lie!
Klemp, after restructuring, didn't want to divulge
the cult's finances, then or ever, and Minnesota
protects Non-profits from public disclosure. And,
it's not that much of a drive to Wisconsin where
Klemp was born. Early on, Klemp used the excuse
that the work ethic and morals were better in MN.
than in CA. In truth, Klemp wanted to isolate himself,
and his staff, from outside influences and to protect
his profits from scrutiny. It's a control tactic!

#3 "Walter is retired, but this story happened
when "Walter" was only one year old. Walt was
in his father's car sitting between his father and
his grandfather. In those days there were no
seat belts or child safety seats. A [supposedly]
drunk driver headed toward them at a high rate
of speed but swerved at the last minute. `There
are many people who experience the protection
of the ECK Masters long before they come into
the teachings of ECK.' Walter [later I assume]
realized that he had been spared an early death
so that he could study ECKankar. More recently,
Walter was driving to San Diego with his wife and
grown daughter. He was about 50-60 feet behind
a 18-wheeler when a piece of steel was kicked up
by the back tires of the semi. Suddenly, Rebazar
appeared in front of them and batted the piece of
steel out of the way! The steel hit the car, but at
radiator level rather than going through the wind
shield. Walter and his family were grateful for the
protection! It's a benefit of being on the Secret
Path to Heaven." [end]

LOL! Rebazar didn't do a very good job at "batting"
the steel out of the way if it still hit the car! Was this
really just some left over "car karma?" I had a similar
thing happen to me when on the freeway a block
of wood was kicked up and hit my fender. It could
have just as easily come through the wind shield.
No Rebazar or EK Master was on hand to "bat" it
out of the away either, but I had the same "protection"
as Walter.

Klemp continues with comments about his "Secret
Path to Heaven" statement.

"Why is it secret? It really depends on your state
of consciousness [initiation]. IF the consciousness
is closed, the path is secret - it can't be seen [perceived].
IF the consciousness is open, the path really isn't
secret at all."

ME: So, it seems that this is a misdirection. EK
is publicized so it's not "secret," but there are
details of this religion that are kept "secret" until
the "consciousness" of the individual can handle
it. Like with the 60,000 year old EK Master Asoki
and the others like Gakko and Rami Nuri from
Venus. And, let's not forget Darwin Gross 972nd
M/LEM and the role he played. This too is a secret!

HK: "Ask yourself, `Who's living the dream?' Your
consciousness will dictate whether the dream you
are living is a nightmare or not. Work off your karma
and open your heart to love. it's all about God's
love. Nothing more, but nothing less."

ME: Then why does one need religion or a
"Mahanta" when all they need is "God's love?"
Soul doesn't need to join ECKankar and carry
an (annual) membership card to experience
Divine Love, does it(!)

BTW- In EK, the initiation number indicates
one's circle of consciousness. Yet, it's limited
to the group's consciousness - the circle's.
Observe the lowest and the highest member
of one's "circle" and then "imagine" whatever
you wish. Voila'! This is the key to ECKankar!

#4 "Carrie was invited to an office holiday party.
She didn't want to go, but the Mahanta nudged
her to go. After Carrie got to the party she
was drawn to a part of the room where a
stranger was standing. She was too shy
to go up and say hi, but once again the
Mahanta nudged her so she went over
and introduced herself. When the man
gave his name she realized they had a
friend in common (Ann). Carrie asked the
man how he had come to know Ann. He
said that Ann had studied ECKankar and
recently read a book by Twitchell and was
wondering about rejoining. She told her
husband that she was looking for a `sign.'
When she met Carrie, an ECKist she saw
this as her "sign." `God put this sign right
in front of my face. How could I miss it?
Ann was struck by how the Holy Spirit
works. She rejoined ECkankar and her
husband, previously a non-Eckist, also
joined." [end]

ME: That's great that they're now both
1st initiates instead of zero initiates!
Misery (and delusion) loves company!

Note: "During this story Klemp knocked
the microphone with his hand as he gestured.
When he was ready to continue the story,
he said, `Now where were we?' He said
he often tells [rehearses] his stories to
his wife, Joan, and when the stories are
interrupted, he asks, `Where were we?'
HK joked that Joan always knows, and
that he can't believe that she was actually
listening [since he doesn't listen to her].

Klemp defined EK terms for the Guests,
saying that, "The Mahanta is a personalized
form of the Holy Spirit, and that it is the
inner side of the Living ECK Master (LEM).
The LEM's job is to sit on stage and try to
remember what he was supposed to say
(joked Harry). IF you came to be impressed,
sorry (laughter). You're getting more than
you know (applause).

ME: Yeah, right! They didn't need to travel
to the Minneapolis Hilton, and pay for this
session, to imagine what was being said
on the "inner" now did they!

HK: "When people come into ECkankar
they have walked many a weary karmic
mile in past lives. Anyone, Eckist or not,
can tell others about the HU. One can
see various colors of light on the inner
when singing the HU. That Light is another
manifestation (besides Sound) of the
Holy Spirit."

ME: Klemp leaves out the fact (according
to EK dogma) that these are Astral Plane
"colors" that one sees on the "inner" when
chanting HU! And, since others, besides
Eckists, know about the HU it's obvious
that there are other, and older, religions
that teach what Twitchell merely copied.

#5 "Tom, in Florida, was traveling with
his wife and his brother and sister and
their spouses while on vacation. One
evening they decided to stop to have
a seafood dinner. They went to a busy,
noisy, and crowded restaurant and had
to wait a long time for a table. Finally,
a table to the side of the room opened,
but "Tom" got a big nudge not to sit
there. `Is there any other table?' he asked.
There was one in the center of the room,
but they had to wait a little longer for it
to be cleared. Finally they were seated
and looking at their menus. Tom heard
a woman behind him say, `My daughter
just joined ECKankar and I don't know
anything about it!' Suddenly, Tom knew
exactly why he got that nudge not to sit
at the other table. He was supposed to
[proselytize] talk to this woman. He turned
around to her and said, `I'm an ECKist,
and so are the rest of the people at this
table [birds of a feather].' They talked
to the woman a bit about ECKankar,
hopefully [tricking her] allaying her fears
about it being a dangerous cult of some
kind." [end]

ME: One really does have to wonder what
might happen if Klemp lost his last grasp
on his little patch of reality and committed
suicide. Or, he might suggest that his chelas
could experience the Anami Lok, now, by
leaving their physical shells (bodies) behind.
They would all have the Mahanta's guidance
and protection in the Higher Worlds of Sugmad.
Wow! What a promise and guarantee! How
could his chelas pass that up? And, those that
did pass it up would have failed the final test!

"At the end of his talk Klemp recapped the
major points of his talk and invited the audience
to the book-room [to buy one of his crappy books].
He thanked people for coming and said, `I wuv
you. May My Blessings Be [forever].' He waved
to the his fans before leaving the stage."

P.S. "The Dessert Social was held in the Symphony
IV room on the 2nd floor, and it turned out to be
a much better place than Salon D. Several online
Eckists gathered at one of the tables to chat in
person."

ME: That's funny! This room was a "much better
place" than the room Klemp gave his talk in!
I guess it's not like asking for another table! lol!

Prometheus

Hello All,
I've seen some recent seminar pictures
of Klemp, the M/LEM of ECKankar, and
he doesn't look good! He looks really
old and has very grey hair... all over!
And, he's lost a lot of weight! However,
I couldn't tell, from the photos, if he
was tanned or jaundice. If that was a tan
then it's probably from vacationing in
Peter Skelskey's house down in Tampa.
But, if he's jaundice I would imagine that
it's Not from EMF!

The thing is, Why doesn't Harry keep his
youth and health like 500 (plus) year old
Rebazar Tarzs... or any of the other EK
Masters still living in a physical body?
Why is Klemp the only (still) Living in
the same physical body ECK Master that
is aging... dramatically?

Actually, Klemp's rapid aging is proof that
he's Not an EK Master! Rebazar still takes
on Karma for chelas as does the other EK
Masters who still have the same physical
bodies... thousands of years old! Right?
And, doesn't Klemp claim to be (indirectly)
the most advanced M/LEM ever? Sure he
does! Klemp has even belittled Twitchell's
consciousness by saying it was "lower"
than it would be today. Yet, HK still uses
Twitchell's Shariyats (Books 1 & 2) and
has never written Books 3 & 4!

And, Why doesn't Klemp update the "official
photo" that he has printed on The Wisdom
Notes page of "The Mystic World?" It's because
of Vanity! Klemp is vain and delusional! He's
also is in denial. But, his followers are delusional
as well! They have to deny reality and buy into
the lies and myth of religious dogma like they
did before they found and "joined" ECKankar.

ECKists just can't let go after 20, 25, 30, 35,
40 years! However, Gail Twitchell Gross and
Patti Simpson let go of ECKankar as have other
High ranking ECKists over the years!

EKists have to wonder, How long does it take
for Soul to take charge of it's own outer and
inner life? How many "tools" does one need
to accumulate in their "tool box?" How many
Mental Plane books, courses, guidelines,
requirements and tests does it take before
one can learn and experience on their own...
as a Divine Soul which is One with the Holy
Spirit? Why doe Soul still need a religion,
unless, it is still weak? Or, is Soul weak because
it is not yet evolved enough to see that it's
all a KAL trick/trap? Either way, it's illusion
that keeps ECKists on the "path."

Notes from the 2009 EK Springtime Seminar:

"Klemp was wearing a new dark blue suit, which
seemed a little too large on him, as if he's lost
some weight. He was wearing a periwinkle blue
shirt with a striped tie. His hair seemed a softer
gray all over."

Prometheus

It's kind of like the Emperor's New Skin. He's probably counting on the same
tired story, that "I'm just pretending to be just like you." lol I wonder if his
corpse like look is a preview of Halloween. Although, it's interesting that
everyone ages differently. It is probably mostly genetic. You'd think though
that the m/lem would have the best genes of all. I guess the last three are very
much lacking. Heart disease, alcoholic/addictive, poor immune system, to name a
few. Oh and Schizoid Delusional mental illness, etc.

Non eckster ; )

--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
<prometheus_973@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> I've seen some recent seminar pictures
> of Klemp, the M/LEM of ECKankar, and
> he doesn't look good! He looks really
> old and has very grey hair... all over!
> And, he's lost a lot of weight! However,
> I couldn't tell, from the photos, if he
> was tanned or jaundice. If that was a tan
> then it's probably from vacationing in
> Peter Skelskey's house down in Tampa.
> But, if he's jaundice I would imagine that
> it's Not from EMF!
>
> The thing is, Why doesn't Harry keep his
> youth and health like 500 (plus) year old
> Rebazar Tarzs... or any of the other EK
> Masters still living in a physical body?
> Why is Klemp the only (still) Living in
> the same physical body ECK Master that
> is aging... dramatically?
>
> Actually, Klemp's rapid aging is proof that
> he's Not an EK Master! Rebazar still takes
> on Karma for chelas as does the other EK
> Masters who still have the same physical
> bodies... thousands of years old! Right?
> And, doesn't Klemp claim to be (indirectly)
> the most advanced M/LEM ever? Sure he
> does! Klemp has even belittled Twitchell's
> consciousness by saying it was "lower"
> than it would be today. Yet, HK still uses
> Twitchell's Shariyats (Books 1 & 2) and
> has never written Books 3 & 4!
>
> And, Why doesn't Klemp update the "official
> photo" that he has printed on The Wisdom
> Notes page of "The Mystic World?" It's because
> of Vanity! Klemp is vain and delusional! He's
> also is in denial. But, his followers are delusional
> as well! They have to deny reality and buy into
> the lies and myth of religious dogma like they
> did before they found and "joined" ECKankar.
>
> ECKists just can't let go after 20, 25, 30, 35,
> 40 years! However, Gail Twitchell Gross and
> Patti Simpson let go of ECKankar as have other
> High ranking ECKists over the years!
>
> EKists have to wonder, How long does it take
> for Soul to take charge of it's own outer and
> inner life? How many "tools" does one need
> to accumulate in their "tool box?" How many
> Mental Plane books, courses, guidelines,
> requirements and tests does it take before
> one can learn and experience on their own...
> as a Divine Soul which is One with the Holy
> Spirit? Why doe Soul still need a religion,
> unless, it is still weak? Or, is Soul weak because
> it is not yet evolved enough to see that it's
> all a KAL trick/trap? Either way, it's illusion
> that keeps ECKists on the "path."
>
> Notes from the 2009 EK Springtime Seminar:
>
> "Klemp was wearing a new dark blue suit, which
> seemed a little too large on him, as if he's lost
> some weight. He was wearing a periwinkle blue
> shirt with a striped tie. His hair seemed a softer
> gray all over."
>
> Prometheus
>