-----Original Message-----
From: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E-Chir@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MaryCatharine
Sent: December 6, 2006 8:20 AM
To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together

With the new modalities, we no longer teach the "lay person" to take a "pulse", anywhere, period... We are to only teaching/recerting EMS to "take pulses "...   Have fun with this one,     MaryCatharine ...."Of course he has a knife. He always has knives. We all have knives.  It's 1183 and we're all barbarians." Katharine Hepburn (1907 - 2003) As: Eleanor of  Aquitaine. The Lion in Winter. 1968 -------Original Message-------   From: Benetti,Sandy [Ontario] Date: 12/05/06 14:11:42 To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together   All good points, however as a first responder you still don't need the BP cuff. You can take a carotid pulse and a distal pulse. If you do them at the same time, they should both have the same rate and rhythm. If they don't there's a problem. If you can find one and not the other, there's a problem.  These are the 2 major pulse points most first aiders use.  Finding a podieital pulse is tricky and finding a femoral pulse is usually only done as a drastic measure.  Both carotid and distal pulse tell you a rough approximation of the systolic pulse.   So, taking vitals yes. Change in pulse or a difference between carotid and distal pulse for rate rhythm or strength tell you if your patient is stable, improving, deteriorating and are (along with pupil response and respiration rate, skin colour and condition and level of consciousness) are all things you can relay to EMS. They don't require a BP cuff or stethoscope. I'm with the ski patrol, I know this.   Seonag -----Original Message----- From: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E-Chir@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of KIM MCAULEY Sent: December 4, 2006 10:21 AM To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together You are very correct in all those assessments Streonwald. However, as a person who has to call 911 more than most, I can tell you that St. John does suggest that taking a full set of vitals is a good thing. Including BP. However, and this is in big red letters, you do this only when you have done everything else on the list of things to do and while still waiting for EMS to arrive, cause you called them right at the beginning. Taking vitals sure beats twiddling your thumbs?   In the case of BP, there are certain things that a *changing* blood pressure can tell EMS and the hospital. If you can, get the baseline vitals so they have more information to work with.   Curious? Google Cushing's Triad for more information. ::grins:: Who wants to do a report for the class on it?   Kaellyn       >>>>>>>>>>>> I agree.  As a Ski Patroller of 18 years experience (including over ten years as an instructor), I have never needed, nor taken a BP reading.  If I don't find a pulse anywhere distal to an injury - it's a load and go.  If I don't find a peripheral pulse - it's a load and go.  If I find an abnormal (ie. unexpected) rate, or strength, or an unusual rhythm in any pulse - it's probably load and go.  A BP cuff, or a stethoscope won't help me decide. Basically, any unusual circulatory function requires care that I can't provide (ie. beyond blankets, O2, monitor, transport) and my patient needs to go to the hospital, ASAP. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/E-Chir/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/E-Chir/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     mailto:E-Chir-digest@yahoogroups.com     mailto:E-Chir-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     E-Chir-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Click Here To Receive My New Creations In Your Inbox! Letter Made: January 6, 2005 Font Used: Harrington For Personal Use Only! No Copyright Infringement Intended

-----Original Message-----
From: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E-Chir@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ninka
Sent: December 6, 2006 1:26 PM
To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together

The new Heart and Stroke guidelines (which govern St. John's, Red Cross and all other first aid training providers) no longer teach pulse checks to the lay provider. In fact, there is no longer a check for signs of circulation of any type. If you have to breathe for a patient, then you immediately start CPR. These new standards came into effect in either September or October of this year.
 

Xristina

----- Original Message ----
From: "Benetti,Sandy [Ontario]" <sandy.benetti@...>
To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 8:53:16 AM
Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together

Who is "we" St. John's, Red Cross, someone else? Any one with CPR training gets taught how to take a pulse.  I don't know if it's mandatory, but at Pennsic they asked for copies of my CPR certs as well as my first aid ones.

 

S.

-----Original Message-----
From: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com [mailto:E-Chir@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of MaryCatharine
Sent: December 6, 2006 8:20 AM
To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together

With the new modalities, we no longer teach the "lay person" to take a "pulse", anywhere, period... We are to only teaching/recerting EMS to "take pulses "...   Have fun with this one,     MaryCatharine ...."Of course he has a knife. He always has knives. We all have knives.  It's 1183 and we're all barbarians." Katharine Hepburn (1907 - 2003) As: Eleanor of  Aquitaine. The Lion in Winter. 1968 -------Original Message----- --   From: Benetti,Sandy [Ontario] Date: 12/05/06 14:11:42 To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together   All good points, however as a first responder you still don't need the BP cuff. You can take a carotid pulse and a distal pulse. If you do them at the same time, they should both have the same rate and rhythm. If they don't there's a problem. If you can find one and not the other, there's a problem.  These are the 2 major pulse points most first aiders use.  Finding a podieital pulse is tricky and finding a femoral pulse is usually only done as a drastic measure.  Both carotid and distal pulse tell you a rough approximation of the systolic pulse.   So, taking vitals yes. Change in pulse or a difference between carotid and distal pulse for rate rhythm or strength tell you if your patient is stable, improving, deteriorating and are (along with pupil response and respiration rate, skin colour and condition and level of consciousness) are all things you can relay to EMS. They don't require a BP cuff or stethoscope. I'm with the ski patrol, I know this.   Seonag -----Original Message----- From: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com [mailto:E-Chir@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of KIM MCAULEY Sent: December 4, 2006 10:21 AM To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together You are very correct in all those assessments Streonwald. However, as a person who has to call 911 more than most, I can tell you that St. John does suggest that taking a full set of vitals is a good thing. Including BP. However, and this is in big red letters, you do this only when you have done everything else on the list of things to do and while still waiting for EMS to arrive, cause you called them right at the beginning. Taking vitals sure beats twiddling your thumbs?   In the case of BP, there are certain things that a *changing* blood pressure can tell EMS and the hospital. If you can, get the baseline vitals so they have more information to work with.   Curious? Google Cushing's Triad for more information. ::grins:: Who wants to do a report for the class on it?   Kaellyn       >>>>>>>>>>>> I agree.  As a Ski Patroller of 18 years experience (including over ten years as an instructor), I have never needed, nor taken a BP reading.  If I don't find a pulse anywhere distal to an injury - it's a load and go.  If I don't find a peripheral pulse - it's a load and go.  If I find an abnormal (ie. unexpected) rate, or strength, or an unusual rhythm in any pulse - it's probably load and go.  A BP cuff, or a stethoscope won't help me decide. Basically, any unusual circulatory function requires care that I can't provide (ie. beyond blankets, O2, monitor, transport) and my patient needs to go to the hospital, ASAP. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/E-Chir/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/E-Chir/ join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     mailto:E-Chir- digest@yahoogrou ps.com     mailto:E-Chir- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     E-Chir-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/

Click Here To Receive My New Creations In Your Inbox! Letter Made: January 6, 2005 Font Used: Harrington For Personal Use Only! No Copyright Infringement Intended

The new Heart and Stroke guidelines (which govern St. John's, Red Cross and all other first aid training providers) no longer teach pulse checks to the lay provider. In fact, there is no longer a check for signs of circulation of any type. If you have to breathe for a patient, then you immediately start CPR. These new standards came into effect in either September or October of this year.
 

Xristina

----- Original Message ----
From: "Benetti,Sandy [Ontario]" <sandy.benetti@...>
To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 8:53:16 AM
Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together

Who is "we" St. John's, Red Cross, someone else? Any one with CPR training gets taught how to take a pulse.  I don't know if it's mandatory, but at Pennsic they asked for copies of my CPR certs as well as my first aid ones.

 

S.

-----Original Message-----
From: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com [mailto:E-Chir@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of MaryCatharine
Sent: December 6, 2006 8:20 AM
To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together

With the new modalities, we no longer teach the "lay person" to take a "pulse", anywhere, period... We are to only teaching/recerting EMS to "take pulses "...   Have fun with this one,     MaryCatharine ...."Of course he has a knife. He always has knives. We all have knives.  It's 1183 and we're all barbarians." Katharine Hepburn (1907 - 2003) As: Eleanor of  Aquitaine. The Lion in Winter. 1968 -------Original Message----- --   From: Benetti,Sandy [Ontario] Date: 12/05/06 14:11:42 To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together   All good points, however as a first responder you still don't need the BP cuff. You can take a carotid pulse and a distal pulse. If you do them at the same time, they should both have the same rate and rhythm. If they don't there's a problem. If you can find one and not the other, there's a problem.  These are the 2 major pulse points most first aiders use.  Finding a podieital pulse is tricky and finding a femoral pulse is usually only done as a drastic measure.  Both carotid and distal pulse tell you a rough approximation of the systolic pulse.   So, taking vitals yes. Change in pulse or a difference between carotid and distal pulse for rate rhythm or strength tell you if your patient is stable, improving, deteriorating and are (along with pupil response and respiration rate, skin colour and condition and level of consciousness) are all things you can relay to EMS. They don't require a BP cuff or stethoscope. I'm with the ski patrol, I know this.   Seonag -----Original Message----- From: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com [mailto:E-Chir@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of KIM MCAULEY Sent: December 4, 2006 10:21 AM To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together You are very correct in all those assessments Streonwald. However, as a person who has to call 911 more than most, I can tell you that St. John does suggest that taking a full set of vitals is a good thing. Including BP. However, and this is in big red letters, you do this only when you have done everything else on the list of things to do and while still waiting for EMS to arrive, cause you called them right at the beginning. Taking vitals sure beats twiddling your thumbs?   In the case of BP, there are certain things that a *changing* blood pressure can tell EMS and the hospital. If you can, get the baseline vitals so they have more information to work with.   Curious? Google Cushing's Triad for more information. ::grins:: Who wants to do a report for the class on it?   Kaellyn       >>>>>>>>>>>> I agree.  As a Ski Patroller of 18 years experience (including over ten years as an instructor), I have never needed, nor taken a BP reading.  If I don't find a pulse anywhere distal to an injury - it's a load and go.  If I don't find a peripheral pulse - it's a load and go.  If I find an abnormal (ie. unexpected) rate, or strength, or an unusual rhythm in any pulse - it's probably load and go.  A BP cuff, or a stethoscope won't help me decide. Basically, any unusual circulatory function requires care that I can't provide (ie. beyond blankets, O2, monitor, transport) and my patient needs to go to the hospital, ASAP. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/E-Chir/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/E-Chir/ join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     mailto:E-Chir- digest@yahoogrou ps.com     mailto:E-Chir- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     E-Chir-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/

Click Here To Receive My New Creations In Your Inbox! Letter Made: January 6, 2005 Font Used: Harrington For Personal Use Only! No Copyright Infringement Intended

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.15.6/568 - Release Date: 12/4/2006 3:20 PM

-----Original Message-----
From: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E-Chir@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James D Sena
Sent: December 6, 2006 2:08 PM
To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together

   The further dumbing down of CPR.  We had that in my ARC CPR class when I renewed this year.  The given reason was "In an emergency most people can't remember how to check for a pulse, or even find their own".

  I disagree with it, and I won't stop checking for a pulse myself.  Then again my original training was not "lay person".  For the first 10 years I had a CPR card it was either "CPR for the Professional Rescuer" or "CPR for Health Care Providers".  It is a much more educational program than "Standard CPR with AED".

  And don't even get me started on the dumbing down of AEDs either.

Lord Brendan ap Llewelyn



  Ninka wrote:

The new Heart and Stroke guidelines (which govern St. John's, Red Cross and all other first aid training providers) no longer teach pulse checks to the lay provider. In fact, there is no longer a check for signs of circulation of any type. If you have to breathe for a patient, then you immediately start CPR. These new standards came into effect in either September or October of this year.
 

Xristina

----- Original Message ----
From: "Benetti,Sandy [Ontario]" <sandy.benetti@...>
To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 8:53:16 AM
Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together

Who is "we" St. John's, Red Cross, someone else? Any one with CPR training gets taught how to take a pulse.  I don't know if it's mandatory, but at Pennsic they asked for copies of my CPR certs as well as my first aid ones.

 

S.

-----Original Message-----
From: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com [mailto:E-Chir@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of MaryCatharine
Sent: December 6, 2006 8:20 AM
To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together

With the new modalities, we no longer teach the "lay person" to take a "pulse", anywhere, period... We are to only teaching/recerting EMS to "take pulses "...   Have fun with this one,     MaryCatharine ...."Of course he has a knife. He always has knives. We all have knives.  It's 1183 and we're all barbarians." Katharine Hepburn (1907 - 2003) As: Eleanor of  Aquitaine. The Lion in Winter. 1968 -------Original Message----- --   From: Benetti,Sandy [Ontario] Date: 12/05/06 14:11:42 To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together   All good points, however as a first responder you still don't need the BP cuff. You can take a carotid pulse and a distal pulse. If you do them at the same time, they should both have the same rate and rhythm. If they don't there's a problem. If you can find one and not the other, there's a problem.  These are the 2 major pulse points most first aiders use.  Finding a podieital pulse is tricky and finding a femoral pulse is usually only done as a drastic measure.  Both carotid and distal pulse tell you a rough approximation of the systolic pulse.   So, taking vitals yes. Change in pulse or a difference between carotid and distal pulse for rate rhythm or strength tell you if your patient is stable, improving, deteriorating and are (along with pupil response and respiration rate, skin colour and condition and level of consciousness) are all things you can relay to EMS. They don't require a BP cuff or stethoscope. I'm with the ski patrol, I know this.   Seonag -----Original Message----- From: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com [mailto:E-Chir@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of KIM MCAULEY Sent: December 4, 2006 10:21 AM To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together You are very correct in all those assessments Streonwald. However, as a person who has to call 911 more than most, I can tell you that St. John does suggest that taking a full set of vitals is a good thing. Including BP. However, and this is in big red letters, you do this only when you have done everything else on the list of things to do and while still waiting for EMS to arrive, cause you called them right at the beginning. Taking vitals sure beats twiddling your thumbs?   In the case of BP, there are certain things that a *changing* blood pressure can tell EMS and the hospital. If you can, get the baseline vitals so they have more information to work with.   Curious? Google Cushing's Triad for more information. ::grins:: Who wants to do a report for the class on it?   Kaellyn       >>>>>>>>>>>> I agree.  As a Ski Patroller of 18 years experience (including over ten years as an instructor), I have never needed, nor taken a BP reading.  If I don't find a pulse anywhere distal to an injury - it's a load and go.  If I don't find a peripheral pulse - it's a load and go.  If I find an abnormal (ie. unexpected) rate, or strength, or an unusual rhythm in any pulse - it's probably load and go.  A BP cuff, or a stethoscope won't help me decide. Basically, any unusual circulatory function requires care that I can't provide (ie. beyond blankets, O2, monitor, transport) and my patient needs to go to the hospital, ASAP. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/E-Chir/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/E-Chir/ join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     mailto:E-Chir- digest@yahoogrou ps.com     mailto:E-Chir- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     E-Chir-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/

Click Here To Receive My New Creations In Your Inbox! Letter Made: January 6, 2005 Font Used: Harrington For Personal Use Only! No Copyright Infringement Intended

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.15.6/568 - Release Date: 12/4/2006 3:20 PM

While leeches and maggots are used - it must be remembered that maggots eat
dead flesh only - if infected - antibiotics are still used - I myself have
applied leeches and maggots to flesh in my work! Not really nice to do - but
it was cool in a clinical way - the leech story isnt really gross and i can
share if wanted but the maggot story is a little graphic - still willing to
share but email firect and i will save the group the grossness!! LOL
Giovanni Ferraius (aka John)


>From: "Benetti,Sandy [Ontario]" <sandy.benetti@...>
>Reply-To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com
>To: <E-Chir@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together
>Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 14:18:31 -0500
>
>Hey maybe we can go "medieval" on them and resort to leaches and maggots
>(noting that still are both used in modern medicine and that in some
>cases maggots work better and cleaning up a nasty wound than  a lot of
>modern antibiotics).
>
>Seonag :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E-Chir@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf Of James D Sena
> Sent: December 6, 2006 2:08 PM
> To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together
>
>
>    The further dumbing down of CPR.  We had that in my ARC CPR
>class when I renewed this year.  The given reason was "In an emergency
>most people can't remember how to check for a pulse, or even find their
>own".
>
>   I disagree with it, and I won't stop checking for a pulse
>myself.  Then again my original training was not "lay person".  For the
>first 10 years I had a CPR card it was either "CPR for the Professional
>Rescuer" or "CPR for Health Care Providers".  It is a much more
>educational program than "Standard CPR with AED".
>
>   And don't even get me started on the dumbing down of AEDs
>either.
>
> Lord Brendan ap Llewelyn
>
>
>
>   Ninka wrote:
>
>  The new Heart and Stroke guidelines (which govern St.
>John's, Red Cross and all other first aid training providers) no longer
>teach pulse checks to the lay provider. In fact, there is no longer a
>check for signs of circulation of any type. If you have to breathe for a
>patient, then you immediately start CPR. These new standards came into
>effect in either September or October of this year.
>
>  Xristina
>
>
>  ----- Original Message ----
>  From: "Benetti,Sandy [Ontario]" <sandy.benetti@...>
><mailto:sandy.benetti@...>
>  To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 8:53:16 AM
>  Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working
>together
>
>
>
>
>
>  Who is "we" St. John's, Red Cross, someone else? Any one
>with CPR training gets taught how to take a pulse.  I don't know if it's
>mandatory, but at Pennsic they asked for copies of my CPR certs as well
>as my first aid ones.
>
>  S.
>
> 	 -----Original Message-----
> 	 From: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com [mailto:E-Chir@
>yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of MaryCatharine
> 	 Sent: December 6, 2006 8:20 AM
> 	 To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com
> 	 Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid
>working together
>
>
>
>
>With the new modalities, we no longer teach the
>"lay person" to take a "pulse", anywhere, period...
>We are to only teaching/recerting EMS to "take pulses "...
>
>Have fun with this one,
>
>
>MaryCatharine
>...."Of course he has a knife. He always has knives.
>We all have knives.  It's 1183 and we're all barbarians."
>
>Katharine Hepburn (1907 - 2003) As: Eleanor of  Aquitaine.
>The Lion in Winter. 1968
>-------Original Message----- --
>
>From: Benetti,Sandy [Ontario] <mailto:sandy.benetti@...>
>Date: 12/05/06 14:11:42
>To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com <mailto:E-Chir@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together
>
>
>All good points, however as a first responder you still don't need the
>BP cuff. You can take a carotid pulse and a distal pulse. If you do them
>at the same time, they should both have the same rate and rhythm. If
>they don't there's a problem. If you can find one and not the other,
>there's a problem.  These are the 2 major pulse points most first aiders
>use.  Finding a podieital pulse is tricky and finding a femoral pulse is
>usually only done as a drastic measure.  Both carotid and distal pulse
>tell you a rough approximation of the systolic pulse.
>
>So, taking vitals yes. Change in pulse or a difference between carotid
>and distal pulse for rate rhythm or strength tell you if your patient is
>stable, improving, deteriorating and are (along with pupil response and
>respiration rate, skin colour and condition and level of consciousness)
>are all things you can relay to EMS. They don't require a BP cuff or
>stethoscope. I'm with the ski patrol, I know this.
>
>Seonag
>-----Original Message-----
>From: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com [mailto:E-Chir@ yahoogroups. com] On
>Behalf Of KIM MCAULEY
>Sent: December 4, 2006 10:21 AM
>To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com
>Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together
>
>
>
>
>
>You are very correct in all those assessments Streonwald. However, as a
>person who has to call 911 more than most, I can tell you that St. John
>does suggest that taking a full set of vitals is a good thing. Including
>BP. However, and this is in big red letters, you do this only when you
>have done everything else on the list of things to do and while still
>waiting for EMS to arrive, cause you called them right at the beginning.
>Taking vitals sure beats twiddling your thumbs?
>
>In the case of BP, there are certain things that a *changing* blood
>pressure can tell EMS and the hospital. If you can, get the baseline
>vitals so they have more information to work with.
>
>Curious? Google Cushing's Triad for more information. ::grins:: Who
>wants to do a report for the class on it?
>
>Kaellyn
>
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>I agree.  As a Ski Patroller of 18 years experience (including over
>ten years as an instructor), I have never needed, nor taken a BP
>reading.  If I don't find a pulse anywhere distal to an injury - it's
>a load and go.  If I don't find a peripheral pulse - it's a load and
>go.  If I find an abnormal (ie. unexpected) rate, or strength, or an
>unusual rhythm in any pulse - it's probably load and go.  A BP cuff,
>or a stethoscope won't help me decide.
>
>Basically, any unusual circulatory function requires care that I can't
>provide (ie. beyond blankets, O2, monitor, transport) and my patient
>needs to go to the hospital, ASAP.
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     (Yahoo! ID required)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    <http://www.sleepingangel.com/>
>Click Here <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/princess_silvia_incredimail/>
>To Receive My New Creations In Your Inbox!
>Letter Made: January 6, 2005
>Font Used: Harrington
>For Personal Use Only! No Copyright Infringement Intended
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>
>  No virus found in this incoming message.
>  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>  Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.15.6/568 -
>Release Date: 12/4/2006 3:20 PM
>
>
>
><< ATT786951.gif >>

_________________________________________________________________
Download now! Visit http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/ to enter and see
how cool it is to get Messenger with you on your cell phone.
http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/

Well.....

With all this updating going on and whatnot, unless it would breach any
insurance coverage I'll continue to treat individuals as I've been trained
to. *shrug*  Call me crazy if you want, but the minute I'm dealing with
anything - regardless of severity - I immediately snap to my instincts.....

Am I a 'by the book' individual?  Hell no.  I won't lie about it.

As a first aider it's your job to asses, record and give initial (and basic
compared to the standards of paramedics and hospitals) treatment.  Some of
us are more experienced, and thus are capable of better assessing and
treating a patient before needing to resort to paramedics, but never allow
yourself to get in over your head.  A little cut on the finger isn't worthy
of a 911 call....a missing one definitely is.  Yes, that's an exaggeration,
but I'm sure you all get the point!

- Lorcan Lotharsonne (m.k.a. Jeff MaGee)

_________________________________________________________________
Download now! Visit http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/ to enter and see
how cool it is to get Messenger with you on your cell phone.
http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/

--- In E-Chir@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff MaGee" <commie_smurf@...> wrote:

> With all this updating going on and whatnot, unless it would breach
   > any insurance coverage I'll continue to treat individuals as I've
     > been trained to.

That's exactly what you're supposed to do.

In my world, (Ski Patrol) we're proud that our training is only
somewhat short of EMT.  We ALWAYS check for pulse at carotid and
radial.  We ALWAYS take and record pulse rate and condition twice,
minimum - before and after treatment.  In fact that applies to all
vital signs.  As we monitor before during and after transport, we
continue to observe all the vitals and record any changes.

What "the world" is teaching "lay" responders doesn't affect me at the
hill.  At the hill I'm the first link in the chain of 911 response.

Away from the hill, as a Chirurgeon, I guess I should respond as a
"lay" responder, but I am no more capable of dumbing down my
responsiveness than would be an MD, a nurse or an EMT.  My treatments,
however are a different story.  Firstly, I don't usually have
backboards, O2, etc. avilable for my use.  Secondly, I'm required to
render basic first aid - only, so I don't bring my own O2, backboard,
etc, to the party.

I do what I'm trained to do - identify life threats, try and prevent
death, attempt resuscitation if indicated (using the new CPR
protocol), call 911 when necessary (essentially what I do on the hill).

I don't see any problems.

Actually, Society guidelines allow up to Advanced first aid. The is no
barrier to using advanced first aid equipment if you have it available, the
barrier is to the Society or any subgroup thereof *owning* them.

Kaellyn




>
> Away from the hill, as a Chirurgeon, I guess I should respond as a
> "lay" responder, but I am no more capable of dumbing down my
> responsiveness than would be an MD, a nurse or an EMT.  My treatments,
> however are a different story.  Firstly, I don't usually have
> backboards, O2, etc. avilable for my use.  Secondly, I'm required to
> render basic first aid - only, so I don't bring my own O2, backboard,
> etc, to the party.
>

--- In E-Chir@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff MaGee" <commie_smurf@...> wrote:

> With all this updating going on and whatnot, unless it would breach
> any insurance coverage I'll continue to treat individuals as I've
> been trained to.

[S. Rabinovitch] And Streonwold replied: 
That's exactly what you're supposed to do. 

 ... I do what I'm trained to do - identify life threats, try and prevent
death, attempt resuscitation if indicated (using the new CPR
protocol), call 911 when necessary (essentially what I do on the hill).

I don't see any problems.
[S. Rabinovitch] NEITHER DO I.

<Signed, your Kingdom boss-lady>  <GRIN>

.

What "the world" is teaching "lay" responders doesn't affect me at the
hill. At the hill I'm the first link in the chain of 911 response.

Away from the hill, as a Chirurgeon, I guess I should respond as a
"lay" responder, but I am no more capable of dumbing down my
responsiveness than would be an MD, a nurse or an EMT. My treatments,

.

--- In E-Chir@yahoogroups.com, "Bethoc \(Lesley\)" > wrote: A lot of
good stuff about resuscitation, below my own comments

Bethoc, I think you just made my point.

You see, MariaKatharina had said, "With the new modalities, we no
longer teach the "lay person" to take a "pulse", anywhere, period...
We are to only teaching/recerting EMS to "take pulses "..."

And then Seonag asked, "Who is "we" ... " and, separately, "So, what
about the first aid side (St. Johns and Red Cross) do they not teach
that any more either?"

And then MariaKatharina responded, "That was the whole point...
The "we" IS everyone...
It is not the "new Heart and Stroke guidelines".
It is the new guidelines for cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) and
first aid were released recently by ILCOR, the International Liaison
Committee on Resuscitation, in 2006, who are  the body that reviews
CPR and first aid every five years. "

I was, in my clumsy fashion, trying to point out that not all
first-aid involves resuscitation.  There are many instances when a
first aider will want to take a pulse, no matter what the protocol for
resuscitation is.

When I send a living patient to the hospital, they will have a note
containing a full assessment of vital signs, a description of the
mechanism of injury, suspected injuries, treatment rendered, and the
patient's response to that treatment, as I've been taught.

When resuscitation is required, the latest modalities that I have been
taught are what I will use.  Period.

As for the "dumbing down" attitude - if you remove a level of
assesment and decision from any process, it has been "dumbed down."
Whatever the rationale. (I won't argue with the rationale - it's not
my place to set standards for resuscitation.)

warmly,
Streonwold

> Greetings all!
>
>   The CPR guidelines get reviewed (and modified) every 5 years. This
year is a "grandfathering" year as many people will have been
certified by old standards because their instructors were not given
the new information until late in 2005. There is always a delay in
roll-out.
snip
>   *return to diatribe*
>
>   The changes in the CPR guidelines are not just "dumbing down" of
information, and it's not just being taught to lay-people. Keep in
mind that this isn't being done to "take away" knowledge from the
trained provider. A responder can take pulses to their heart's delight
on every other patient (wherever she/he likes to stick look for a
pulse *smirk*). And it is certainly an important skill to have.
>
>   The changes are based on scientific study that is been researched
and reviewed by major world-wide organisations. In the end of it all,
the changes are to better the outcome for the individual (not to
enhance the experience for the responder!). Of course, in five years
time, they will re-evaluate and see if these changes are helpful
(don't you like being guinea pigs?)
>
>   The rationale is all about getting blood oxygenated and circulated
*quickly*.
>
>   Consider :
> In cardiac arrest, the heart is quivering and/or not moving and
therefore not able to pump out blood. Regardless if the collapse is
witnessed or not, if the airway is open and there is no breathing it
is logical to assume that an immense cardiac event could be a
causative factor. It takes a least 20-30 seconds to get to the "pulse
check point" from the discovery of the casualty, checking and securing
the scene, calling for help, assessing responsiveness, sending for
help, look, listen, feel, and ventilate x 2. So why wait to check a
pulse? Even with the fastest 10 second carotid pulse check, this now
approaches 30-45 seconds less that the casualty/patient's heart is
getting oxygenated blood from the beginning of the event (not
considering the the seconds to minutes that the person's heart
malfunctioned enough to cause the collapse!). We were taught to be
scared of doing damage to the heart during CPR if it was beating. I
think that's why we sill want to do the pulse check.
>  Well it looks like the damage it may cause is overshadowed by the
benefit of circulating oxygenated blood. Besides, if breating has
stopped because of cardiac arrest, what little heartbeat there is will
soon stop.
>
>   Consider:
>   The ratio of compressions to ventilations has changed to
facilitate teaching and retention, yes. However, the ratio also
provides for improved circulation of oxygenated blood. What's the
point of oxygenating blood if it doesn't get circulated properly? We
now perform 100 compressions/minute of hard and fast CPR with full
compression recoil (i.e. come all the way up after you compress to let
the heart fill). Since it takes 4 minutes for brain damage, you're not
doing any harm to the person to circulate oxygenated blood for 1
minute between breaths (ie 30:2 compression:ventilation ratio)
especially to the coronary (heart) muscles which need it the most at
that moment. Even in ACLS and ER treatment, which includes drugs and
electric shock delivery, we now employ two minutes of CPR to let the
drugs circulate between electric shocks. This is a big change for
acute care providers!
>
>   Consider:
>   You attend to someone whose family member happens to know the
latest CPR guidelines... and understands there is rationale behind
them (even if that person doesn't know what or why, a lawyer can find
out for them!)... who can then bring into question the scientific
logic behind a responder being "old school". I'd be concerned about
legal issues then! It's hard to throw off your teaching, I know...
believe me in ACLS the idea of not shocking a person three times in a
row to start with (which we used to do) is a mental jump for many of
my colleagues and I. But I'd suggest that a responder would have to be
careful to perform as she/he were certified to with the new guidelines
in order to protect her/hiself... besides, this information is also
released as "best practise" and it is the best we have to go on right now.
>
>   Personally, I perform my acute emergency response with the latest
guidelines (even if I can do CPR compressions for longer than the
recommended two minutes, I don't want someone to accuse me of
peforming poorly and causing harm... so the switch off, when we can do
it, is two minutes. simple)
>
>   and if five years time...who knows how things will change then???
>
>   stay warm!
>   Beth{o'}c
>
>
>
> solis sacerdotibus. Ave atque vale.
>
> ---------------------------------
> Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos
>

Streonwold wrote:

When I send a living patient to the hospital, they will have a note
containing a full assessment of vital signs, a description of the
mechanism of injury, suspected injuries, treatment rendered, and the
patient's response to that treatment, as I've been taught.

.

Rapid Assessment & Transport Teams (RATTs):RATTs enter a field of battle, quickly assess, package, and extract an injured fighter. This is a
physically and mentally challenging area of Chirurgeoning.  Please: if you
have medical issues that may flare up with heavy activity, don't try this.
RATT graduates are expected to have their own field gear to include 1st aid bags & groin protection and chest protection for females, and a marshaling staff (in black & yellow or red & white (or yellow for mentor chirurgeons). Tabards will be provided as well as eye protection. 

 

You must be (but not limited to):
a. a warranted chirurgeon & marshal (class for marshal ling will be on the Monday of war week if needed),  and attend the RATT class (which will be Monday of war week right after the marshal ling class), Charting class strongly encouraged
b. experience at chirurgeoning at melee events or have served as a staff/or crew chief/or point chirurgeon at Gulf Wars or a large war or event(s)
c. willing to give up at least 6-8 (this includes training) hours of your life at the next Gulf Wars 
d. able to communicate effectively
e. able to work with other Gulf War staff effectively
f. able to be managed as volunteer staff
g. be attentive to detail
h. willing to follow through
i. familiar and in compliance with policies and procedures of the Chirurgeonate
and Gulf War
j. available to be at Gulf War XVI

i. able to pass a test that has a physical component.  To pass, you
must run the length of GW's melee field, lift and toss a bale of hay, and
then answer tough oral questions.  NO EXCEPTIONS!  

If you are interested, please do all of the following:
1. Send your application to me at chirurgeon@... & RATT One servitazola@ yahoo.com Applications due by 15 JAN 06.

2. In your application include all of the following:
a. Your full contact information--name, SCA name, address (include
city/state/province/zip code), phone, email
b. Your 'resume'--SCA and mundane.
c. Your experience in the chirurgeonate.
d. Your experience with Gulf Wars.

Herr Arkell vom Cophus, MC

Gulf War XVI War Chirurgeon

 

Please feel free to cross-post this announcement

---

Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Leslie Luther-Fulton" <janefalada@...>
To: <announcements@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:41 PM
Subject: [Announcements] FW: Announcement


> Greetings:
>
> Due to ongoing health concerns and at her Doctor's recommendation, the
> Society Chirurgeon, Beth Hart-Carlock, OD (Dame Eleanor Isabeau du Coeur),
> has retired, effective December 15, 2006. The SCA, Inc.  would like to
> thank Dr. Hart-Carlock for her years of service to the Society in this
> office, and hopes she continues to work with the  chirurgeonate as she
> may.
>
> The Board of Directors has selected an interim Society Chirurgeon, Kim
> McAuley (Viscountess Kaellyn MacDermott) to serve for a time period not
> greater than the remainder of Dr. Hart-Carlock's term of  office which
> ends in April of 2007. The SCA, Inc. thanks Ms. McAuley for this service.
>
> The Board of Directors will be choosing, as planned, a new Society
> Chirurgeon at the January 2007 Board meeting. Applications for that job
> are due in hardcopy, to the Corporate Office by January 1, 2007.
>
> If you have any questions related to this, you may contact the
> interim President at president@..., or the interim Society
> Chirurgeon at chirurgeon@....
>
> Very truly yours,
> Patrick Anderson
> Interim President, SCA, Inc.
>
> Patrick Anderson
> (Gabriel andvaka Kjotvason)
> Interim President
> Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc.
> president@...
> 952-412-4112
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes - enter the Microsoft Office Live
> Sweepstakes http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/
>
>
> Comments are strongly encouraged and can be sent to: SCA Inc.
> Box 360789
> Milpitas,  CA 95036
>
> You may also email comments@...
> or reply to this message.
>
> This announcement is an official informational release by the Society for
> Creative Anachronism , Inc.  Permission is granted to reproduce this
> announcement in its entirety in newsletters, websites and electronic
> mailing lists.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Announcements mailing list
> To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
> http://lists.sca.org/listinfo/announcements
>
> To change the email address you receive these messages at, visit the URL
> listed above, subscribe to with your new email address.  Once this is
> completed, return to the URL listed above and unsubscribe your old email
> address.

WELL WELL WELL!

I'm very saddened to hear that Eleanor isn't well enough to last
these last few months but I can SURE understand WHY!!

And let us all remember that Kaellyn WAS the C.I.C. during
the "Troubles" at Pennsic this year.  To me this says that the BoD
respects and admires her abilities enough to hand her the interim
reigns till a successor is in place.  That's one HELL Of an
endorsement.

YAAAY KAELLYN!!
<whooping from the sidelines>
TSivia


--- In E-Chir@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" <viscountessk@...> wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leslie Luther-Fulton" <janefalada@...>
> To: <announcements@...>
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:41 PM
> Subject: [Announcements] FW: Announcement
>
>
> > Greetings:
> >
> > Due to ongoing health concerns and at her Doctor's
recommendation, the
> > Society Chirurgeon, Beth Hart-Carlock, OD (Dame Eleanor Isabeau
du Coeur),
> > has retired, effective December 15, 2006. The SCA, Inc.  would
like to
> > thank Dr. Hart-Carlock for her years of service to the Society
in this
> > office, and hopes she continues to work with the  chirurgeonate
as she
> > may.
> >
> > The Board of Directors has selected an interim Society
Chirurgeon, Kim
> > McAuley (Viscountess Kaellyn MacDermott) to serve for a time
period not
> > greater than the remainder of Dr. Hart-Carlock's term of  office
which
> > ends in April of 2007. The SCA, Inc. thanks Ms. McAuley for this
service.
> >
> > The Board of Directors will be choosing, as planned, a new
Society
> > Chirurgeon at the January 2007 Board meeting. Applications for
that job
> > are due in hardcopy, to the Corporate Office by January 1, 2007.
> >
> > If you have any questions related to this, you may contact the
> > interim President at president@..., or the interim Society
> > Chirurgeon at chirurgeon@...
> >
> > Very truly yours,
> > Patrick Anderson
> > Interim President, SCA, Inc.
> >
> > Patrick Anderson
> > (Gabriel andvaka Kjotvason)
> > Interim President
> > Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc.
> > president@...
> > 952-412-4112
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes - enter the Microsoft Office
Live
> > Sweepstakes
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/
> >
> >
> > Comments are strongly encouraged and can be sent to: SCA Inc.
> > Box 360789
> > Milpitas,  CA 95036
> >
> > You may also email comments@...
> > or reply to this message.
> >
> > This announcement is an official informational release by the
Society for
> > Creative Anachronism , Inc.  Permission is granted to reproduce
this
> > announcement in its entirety in newsletters, websites and
electronic
> > mailing lists.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Announcements mailing list
> > To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
> > http://lists.sca.org/listinfo/announcements
> >
> > To change the email address you receive these messages at, visit
the URL
> > listed above, subscribe to with your new email address.  Once
this is
> > completed, return to the URL listed above and unsubscribe your
old email
> > address.
>

Thank you very much TSivia. I am hoping that the news will also be an
endorsement of all chirurgeons who worked at Pennsic.

Kaellyn

----- Original Message -----
From: "TSivia" <tsivia@...>
To: <E-Chir@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 6:57 PM
Subject: [E-Chir] Re: Fw: [Announcements] FW: Announcement


> WELL WELL WELL!
>
> I'm very saddened to hear that Eleanor isn't well enough to last
> these last few months but I can SURE understand WHY!!
>
> And let us all remember that Kaellyn WAS the C.I.C. during
> the "Troubles" at Pennsic this year.  To me this says that the BoD
> respects and admires her abilities enough to hand her the interim
> reigns till a successor is in place.  That's one HELL Of an
> endorsement.
>
> YAAAY KAELLYN!!
> <whooping from the sidelines>
> TSivia
>
>
> --- In E-Chir@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" <viscountessk@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Leslie Luther-Fulton" <janefalada@...>
>> To: <announcements@...>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:41 PM
>> Subject: [Announcements] FW: Announcement
>>
>>
>> > Greetings:
>> >
>> > Due to ongoing health concerns and at her Doctor's
> recommendation, the
>> > Society Chirurgeon, Beth Hart-Carlock, OD (Dame Eleanor Isabeau
> du Coeur),
>> > has retired, effective December 15, 2006. The SCA, Inc.  would
> like to
>> > thank Dr. Hart-Carlock for her years of service to the Society
> in this
>> > office, and hopes she continues to work with the  chirurgeonate
> as she
>> > may.
>> >
>> > The Board of Directors has selected an interim Society
> Chirurgeon, Kim
>> > McAuley (Viscountess Kaellyn MacDermott) to serve for a time
> period not
>> > greater than the remainder of Dr. Hart-Carlock's term of  office
> which
>> > ends in April of 2007. The SCA, Inc. thanks Ms. McAuley for this
> service.
>> >
>> > The Board of Directors will be choosing, as planned, a new
> Society
>> > Chirurgeon at the January 2007 Board meeting. Applications for
> that job
>> > are due in hardcopy, to the Corporate Office by January 1, 2007.
>> >
>> > If you have any questions related to this, you may contact the
>> > interim President at president@..., or the interim Society
>> > Chirurgeon at chirurgeon@...
>> >
>> > Very truly yours,
>> > Patrick Anderson
>> > Interim President, SCA, Inc.
>> >
>> > Patrick Anderson
>> > (Gabriel andvaka Kjotvason)
>> > Interim President
>> > Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc.
>> > president@...
>> > 952-412-4112
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes - enter the Microsoft Office
> Live
>> > Sweepstakes
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/
>> >
>> >
>> > Comments are strongly encouraged and can be sent to: SCA Inc.
>> > Box 360789
>> > Milpitas,  CA 95036
>> >
>> > You may also email comments@...
>> > or reply to this message.
>> >
>> > This announcement is an official informational release by the
> Society for
>> > Creative Anachronism , Inc.  Permission is granted to reproduce
> this
>> > announcement in its entirety in newsletters, websites and
> electronic
>> > mailing lists.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Announcements mailing list
>> > To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:
>> > http://lists.sca.org/listinfo/announcements
>> >
>> > To change the email address you receive these messages at, visit
> the URL
>> > listed above, subscribe to with your new email address.  Once
> this is
>> > completed, return to the URL listed above and unsubscribe your
> old email
>> > address.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

To each and every one of you, Christian, Jewish, Pagan, atheist,

I wish you and yours the best of the season when the sun is at its
lowest and the candles burn bright.  Or as I say in mundania:

Happy Solchriskwanzmukah!

<<grin>>
TSivia (K.C.)

There is an organization which is both for the support of, and also
a fraternal organization (does good works) for pagans (including
aboriginal paganism, not just "Wicca" type) who work as military,
police, firefighters, EMS, and related, called the Officers of
Avalon.  http://www.officersofavalon.com/ Their preceptor-general is
an old acquaintance of mine, Kerr Cuhulain (formerly an officer with
the Vancouver police). It's not specifically SCA but perhaps of
interest to some.

I have been emailing Kerr recently to find out if emergency first
aiders might qualify as "associate members" and he says yes, if you
actively work major SCA events like Pennsic, Gulf, Estrella, etc.
etc. (the large Wars).  For instance, I explained some of what comes
through the Chirurgeon points at either War on overnight
shifts...kinda like any full moon in an Emergency room at a small
hospital.  They'll also accept things such as Royal Lifesaving and
Cdn. Ski Patrol (etc.) if you do things such as lifesaving and/or
Search and Rescue.

So if you're interested, read up on them via their web pages and
make your own decisions.  Thought I'd bring it up since I know many
many of the SCA's chirurgeons are pagan (NOT all by any means!!) and
that this might be of some interest.  (Also do pass this onto any
military, EMS, firefighters, and/or cops who may be interested).
I"m told there is also an affiliated organization for pagan RNs.

Holiday best to all!
TSivia

Hi folks!

The Society wants all Kingdom Chirurgeon handbooks revised to come
into conformation with the new titles for the 3 levels within the
Guild.  It's as good a time as any to look over the entire thing to
see what needs to be added, dropped, or amended (after all, it's now
REQUIRED that all autocrats file event reports to the K.C. if there
wasn't a CIC there...plot to get more chirurgeons! LOL).

Any volunteers? I think the last time it was updated was over 10 years
ago, on Kaellyn's watch.

Email me.
TSivia

Hi folks!

The Society wants all Kingdom Chirurgeon handbooks revised to come
into conformation with the new titles for the 3 levels within the
Guild. It's as good a time as any to look over the entire thing to
see what needs to be added, dropped, or amended (after all, it's now
REQUIRED that all autocrats file event reports to the K.C. if there
wasn't a CIC there...plot to get more chirurgeons! LOL).

Any volunteers? I think the last time it was updated was over 10 years
ago, on Kaellyn's watch.

Email me.
TSivia

Heyya Brendan!
<<LOL>>

A lot of kingdoms are going that way.  The minor issue here is that we
have various additional first-aid training org's in the COmmonwealth you
don't have Stateside...and we've accomodated them in this manner
explicitly (e.g. St. Johns ambulance, royal lifesaving society, cdn. ski
partrol).

I'm going to talk to our SC who is one of mine (my x3 predecessor in this
office) and see if she thinks that would be a sufficient move for us.  *I*
think it'd be a lovely short-cut. <Grin>
See you at Estrella by any chance?

TSiv


Over here in An Tir we took the simple route.  Kingdom Law states the
> Society Chirurgeon's Handbook is An Tir's Chirurgeon's Handbook.  Mir
> tried to amend it putting Page 60 first  (The page that says Don't
> Panic!) but aside from that ....
>
> Lord Brendan ap Llewelyn
> Summits Principality Chirurgeon
> Kingdom of An Tir
>
>
> TSivia wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks!
>>
>> The Society wants all Kingdom Chirurgeon handbooks revised to come
>> into conformation with the new titles for the 3 levels within the
>> Guild. It's as good a time as any to look over the entire thing to
>> see what needs to be added, dropped, or amended (after all, it's now
>> REQUIRED that all autocrats file event reports to the K.C. if there
>> wasn't a CIC there...plot to get more chirurgeons! LOL).
>>
>> Any volunteers? I think the last time it was updated was over 10 years
>> ago, on Kaellyn's watch.
>>
>> Email me.
>> TSivia
>>
>>
>
>

Unfortunately Estrella is out this year.  I have a business / pleasure trip to Dallas Tx to make the end of the month.  I have a big project I am working on that will tie up a lot of my time too.

Maybe what you need to do with the Handbook is make the Society Handbook the Kingdom Handbook, with the addition of an "Appendix A - THe following orginizations training courses

are consider acceptable.  This List is not exclusive:"  That way if some new group springs up that fits the bill the Appendix (and Handbook) do not exclude them.

Brendan

---------- Original Message -----------
From: tsivia@...
To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 13:02:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Revising the Kingdom Chi handbook

> Heyya Brendan!
> <<LOL>>
>
> A lot of kingdoms are going that way. The minor issue here is that we
> have various additional first-aid training org's in the COmmonwealth you
> don't have Stateside...and we've accomodated them in this manner
> explicitly (e.g. St. Johns ambulance, royal lifesaving society, cdn. ski
> partrol).
>
> I'm going to talk to our SC who is one of mine (my x3 predecessor in this
> office) and see if she thinks that would be a sufficient move for us. *I*
> think it'd be a lovely short-cut. <Grin>
> See you at Estrella by any chance?
>
> TSiv
>
> Over here in An Tir we took the simple route. Kingdom Law states the
> > Society Chirurgeon's Handbook is An Tir's Chirurgeon's Handbook. Mir
> > tried to amend it putting Page 60 first (The page that says Don't
> > Panic!) but aside from that ....
> >
> > Lord Brendan ap Llewelyn
> > Summits Principality Chirurgeon
> > Kingdom of An Tir
> >
> >
> > TSivia wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi folks!
> >>
> >> The Society wants all Kingdom Chirurgeon handbooks revised to come
> >> into conformation with the new titles for the 3 levels within the
> >> Guild. It's as good a time as any to look over the entire thing to
> >> see what needs to be added, dropped, or amended (after all, it's now
> >> REQUIRED that all autocrats file event reports to the K.C. if there
> >> wasn't a CIC there...plot to get more chirurgeons! LOL).
> >>
> >> Any volunteers? I think the last time it was updated was over 10 years
> >> ago, on Kaellyn's watch.
> >>
> >> Email me.
> >> TSivia
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
------- End of Original Message -------