I forgot to say hello and thanks for letting me in the group.I collect odd tools
here and there.I have not done any drafting for about 20 years,but I love the
skill and art that I did learn ,I have an Associates Degree in Drafting and
Design.Drafting and design when you open your mind to the job at hand and then
at the finished drawing still amazes me,I remember when I was at the end of my
school and the toughest test was a tough one for me until one night in my dream
all the pieces came together and I got out of bed hit the table and knocked out
my final test and aced it.

I found Howard Dawes book "Instruments of the Imagination" welcome but
frustrating.  Books on drawing instruments are very few, and any new book is
welcome.  However, Mr. Dawes book has several shortcomings and its usefulness is
correspondingly diminished.
      First, the title is inappropriate; it should have been: "The Howard Dawes
Collection".  It is not a general book on drawing instruments, just a survey of
his admittedly extensive and very fine personal collection.  However, if an
instrument was not in his collection, he didn't include it in the book.  This
has resulted in such absurdities as a chapter on perspective drawing that
doesn't describe or even mention the centrolinead, for example!
      Also, the illustrations are not of uniform quality; a few are glary, others
out of focus.  If he was going to publish a copiously illustrated book all in
color, one would think he would take some care to have all of the illustrations
of high quality.
      There are other annoyances as well.  In at least one instance he has put
the same picture in the book twice, attempting to disguise this by reversing it
left-to-right in the second case.
      Finally, and I don't understand this, he spends most of page 69 discussing
the history of Earl of Bute and his friendship with George III, a subject which
has nothing to do with either drawing instruments or the imagination.
      It's really too bad that Mr. Dawes didn't include instrument not in his
collection for completeness, and take take greater care in the book's
production.  There are relatively few books on drawing instruments out there,
and a new high-quality book would have been a valuable addition.
      I bought a copy, of course.  I'm a real reference book junkie.  However,
whenever I open this book I am reminded how good it could have been.
Phil Stanley

In the UK the book is £19.99 from Amazon.

David M Riches


--- In DrawingInstruments@yahoogroups.com, "David" <thompson0122@...> wrote:
>
> Howard Dawes, an English collector has published a book on architectural
drawing instruments that is a must have if you collect drawing instruments
(unless you have absolutely no interest in British instruments). All of the
illustrations are from his private collection which contains many of the rarest
instruments by impostant makers. The book is "Instruments of the Imagination",
2009, not to be confused with the 2005 "Tools of the Imagination".
>
> The Gemmary has copies at $60.00  (www.gemmary.com) its a bargain given the
contents
>
> Another recent book from Yale University Press is "Compass and Rule" writen by
scholars at Oxford University and richly illustrated including drawings by
Christopher Wren and containing many drawing instruments. The book can be
obtained from Amazon.
>
> The exhibition, for which it is the catalog, will be at The Yale Center for
British Art in New Haven, CT from Feb 24 through May.
>
> See  http://ycba.yale.edu/
>

Howard Dawes, an English collector has published a book on architectural drawing
instruments that is a must have if you collect drawing instruments (unless you
have absolutely no interest in British instruments). All of the illustrations
are from his private collection which contains many of the rarest instruments by
impostant makers. The book is "Instruments of the Imagination", 2009, not to be
confused with the 2005 "Tools of the Imagination".

The Gemmary has copies at $60.00  (www.gemmary.com) its a bargain given the
contents

Another recent book from Yale University Press is "Compass and Rule" writen by
scholars at Oxford University and richly illustrated including drawings by
Christopher Wren and containing many drawing instruments. The book can be
obtained from Amazon.

The exhibition, for which it is the catalog, will be at The Yale Center for
British Art in New Haven, CT from Feb 24 through May.

See  http://ycba.yale.edu/

My wife picked this up for me it is a DIETZGEN #970W MASTER DETAILER BEAM
COMPASS in the box which has two slide pins to lock the case.The case is solid
black  with some minor scuffing.Any idea of value? THANKS I HAVE ADDED TWO
PICTURES IN MY ALBUM MARKED DIXIEROADIES

Ron,

Both are certainly French and are probably the most frequently found names on
the inside lid lining of French cases. I would love to know more about the
makers that used these trade marks.

David


--- In DrawingInstruments@yahoogroups.com, "ronbo717" <ronbo717@...> wrote:
>
> I have two old drafting sets in my collection.  One shows Compas Perfectionnes
on the inside lining , and one Compas Superieures.  The names appear French, but
does anyone know that is the case or who the maker is?  Any idea of when they
operated?  I'll try to post a photo.  Thanks.
>

I have two old drafting sets in my collection.  One shows Compas Perfectionnes
on the inside lining , and one Compas Superieures.  The names appear French, but
does anyone know that is the case or who the maker is?  Any idea of when they
operated?  I'll try to post a photo.  Thanks.

Just wanted to let the group know that I have updated my catalog listings in the
database. I only listed pdf catalogs if they were part of a larger collection of
catalogs, such as my K&E catalogs and I haven't attempted to list all my
brouchures, advertisements and a few of my smaller catalogs.

Some highlights include a 1905 Dietzgen catalog, two 1890's F. Weber Company
catalogs (a good source for early Riefler information), a H. Morin catalog from
Paris with no date but I believe to be from ~1920, B K Elliott catalogs from
~1910 to 1960 and what Alteneder reference materials I have.

Let me know if you are looking for any specific information which may be
contained in them and I will be happy to provide a scan, just don't ask for
entire catalogs or entire sections.

Daniella,

These were made by Harling over a considerable period from the second half of
the 19th century until the middle of the twentieth. It actually appears in the
1930 catalogue with the number 510 and I would think that the presence of a
catalogue number on the box dates it towards the end of manufacture, i.e.
1920s/1930s.

Because it is boxed its value is probably £15 to £30. They are not rare but not
that common either.

David M Riches


--- In DrawingInstruments@yahoogroups.com, "daniellasaaby" <daniellasaaby@...>
wrote:
>
> It is a Harling Dotting with long ivory handle.
> The top part of the handle comes unscrewed from the stem; then this tip again
unscrews into 2 parts - it reveals a hidden 1cm cylindrical chamber in between
in which the spare dotting wheels were kept.
> The box in which it's housed clearly labels: "Harling London Dotting Pen Cat.
No. 510" and the pen is engraved "Harling" on the stem.
> If you have any further information, I'd appreciate you passing it on to me.
> Daniella.
>

It is a Harling Dotting with long ivory handle.
The top part of the handle comes unscrewed from the stem; then this tip again
unscrews into 2 parts - it reveals a hidden 1cm cylindrical chamber in between
in which the spare dotting wheels were kept.
The box in which it's housed clearly labels: "Harling London Dotting Pen Cat.
No. 510" and the pen is engraved "Harling" on the stem.
If you have any further information, I'd appreciate you passing it on to me.
Daniella.

Hi.

I have added to my album, 3 pictures of an Arcliner, manufactured by Harding of
England. Not sure what age this instrument is. Look to have been hardly used
over the years. Box VGC but no instructions I'm afraid.

I think I have two of these for sale.

Price .......is open for discussion

Any questions, just email

Thank you

Regards

Gary

I have added a further 4 pictures to my album, Gary's Items for Sale.

I hope that Rotring and Leroy are compatible.

A Rotring Compass, but from the detail in the box there seems to be an item
missing.

The other pictures are 'Rotring Attachments 1,2 & 3' I assume that the items in
pictures 1&2 are for adjusting the angles that the pens are held at.

'Rotring Attachment 3' shows a selection of various Pins, Screws and holders.

All items are for sale, any questions, please email me.
Price..... open to discussion.

Regards

Gary

Stonehaven
Scotland

I have just acquired a Cartograph, made by Conopois Instruments of Worthing,
probably in the 1970s. The firm is now The Airbrish Company Ltd. Ken Medwell of
the Airbrush Company said that the Cartograph was intended to be used for
joining up plotted contour points in ordnance surveys. The head and nibs are
offset which created a natural curve or line which could not be created any
other way until the advent of computer systems which made it obsolete. The six
nibs supplied with it were Graphos A series. I have posted three photos of it.

I have a second one, acquired at the same time, which I would like to sell. It
is in good condition except that the lid of the case is stained with red ink on
the outside. I would like £20 for it plus postage at cost, which is what it cost
me.

David M Riches

I have posted three pictures of an 18th Century six inch brass proportional
divider by Thomas Blunt who's address was 22 Cornhill London. As it is just
signed T Blunt it probably dates between 1794 and 1800. Thomas Blunt was in
partnership with Edward Nairne from 1774 to 1793 at 20 Cornhill as Nairne &
Blunt, and from 1801-22 with his son Thomas as Blunt & Son. It has a finely
shaped case which is silk and velvet lined and covered in Morocco leather. The
proportional divider is fully divided for lines, circles, plans and solids.

David M Riches

Hi. I have added a further 2 photos of a Leroy Lettering Set and 1 of various
Scribers which are in differing stages of completeness!! In addition to the
stencils in the box I also some Leroy 61 series stencils with amounts and serial
numbers listed below

1 x 0500-60 CL
1 x 0500-80 CL
1 x 0500-100 CL
1 x 0500-120 CL
1 x 0500-160 CL
2 x 0500-200 CL
5 x 0500-240 CL
3 x 0500-480 CL
4 x 0500-320 CL
1 x 0500-400 CL all are in 'used' condition

also


1 x 0300-50 CL (used)
2 x 0300-60 CL (1 good, 1 used)
1 x 0300-80 CL (good)
2 x 0300-100 CL (1 good, 1 used)
3 x 0300-120 CL (1 good, 2 used)
2 x 0300-175 CL (used)
1 x 0300-240 CL (used)
2 x 0300-350 CL (both good)
1 x 0300-425 CL (good)
3 x 0300-500 CL (1 good, 2 new in sleeve)

It is a number of years since this set has been used so I cannot say if the pens
supplied are in working order or not, or how complete any of various the items
are, but I'm sure that from what is in the pictures, you will be able to gauge
what all is there.

I hope you find these of interest.

Regards

Gary

Stonehaven
Scotland

Hi.

I have created a photo album called 'Gary's items for sale' which has pictures
of a 'Hurst Plotter' and a 'Leroy hight and slant control scriber' which I would
like to offer for sale to members of this Yahoo Group.

The 'Hurst Plotter' was manufactured by a company 'Brookes & Gatehouse Ltd'
based in Lymington, England. I'm guessing it was manufactured in the 1970's.

The 'Leroy hight and slant control scriber' is model number 61 0020, comes in
its original box with instructions and is made by Keuffel & Esser, Morristown,
N.J. USA.

I have numerous other drawing instruments which I am looking to sell, such as a
Leroy lettering set and stensils, lots of stencils !!, pen heads & also Rotring
equipment.

I'll load up some more pictures and let you see what I have, and if anything
interests you, or you have any questions, please get in touch.

Thank you

Gary

I recently aquired a Riefler Perspective Compass which appears to be a set of
proportional dividers which instead of having a scale have points on the side
which I assume are meant to be set from something on the drawing. I would love
to find out more information about this instrument and how to use it. Has anyone
run into one of these before or have instructions on its use?

The last image in my Photo Album Ken S is an image of the dividers and the
outside of the case.

Ellen,

Email me a picture to drdriches@... and I will tell you more about it.

David M Riches

--- In DrawingInstruments@yahoogroups.com, ELLEN LAIR <elair1@...> wrote:
>
> thank you to everyone with information on this set i am very impressed with
your knowledge .I do have another question,how do you know if it is for a square
or flat pattern and would you like a picture to help determine .
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: weymouthdavid <drdriches@...>
> To: DrawingInstruments@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 4:41:11 AM
> Subject: [Drawing Instruments] Re: question on drawing instruments
>
>  
> Further to my recent post I have now examined a Schoenner flat pattern compass
and in fact it does not use the Schoenner patent straightening device but uses
the Richter type. However this is a much later instrument.
>
> The H Cole Co of Columbus, Ohio sold Richter instruments in the USA, listing
four qualities: highest grade instruments, first quality, and student grade
square pattern instruments and school grade round type. The catalogue is undated
but probably 1920s.
>
> David M Riches
>
> --- In DrawingInstruments@ yahoogroups. com, "weymouthdavid" <drdriches@ ..>
wrote:
> >
> > I can confirm that these would be Schoenner instruments. I have a couple of
these sets with the patent date on the head fork of the compasses on the
opposite side to the Schoenner trade mark, basically a small circle with a
couple of arrows through it. The instruments will be made of nickel silver (also
called German silver and electrum). I am not sure how long they continued to be
made for but one of my sets is dated 1912. Both of my sets are square pattern
(sometimes called American pattern) but there is no reason why this
straightening device could not have been used on flat pattern instruments as
well.
> >
> > David M Riches
> >
> > --- In DrawingInstruments@ yahoogroups. com, "collectingken" <ken_kjs@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > I suspect these are Schoenner instruments. Check patent No. 723041 on
Google patents to verify that this resembles your instruments. The patent is for
a straightening device for the head of the compass.
> > >
> > > It's possible that the SPECIAL designation indicates that it was a set
created specifically for a college at their request.
> > >
> > > --- In DrawingInstruments@ yahoogroups. com, ELLEN LAIR <elair1@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello ,can anyone have any information or history on a set of mechanical
drawing tools i acquired in a sale .it is a wooden case covered in leather the
inside top has blue silk like material with the name "The Special" stamped on it
and the bottom is blue velvet,it has a sliding rod for locking the case closed
.There are 9 pieces to this set all silver toned with a patent stamp of march 17
1903.I have not been sucessful in finding this manufacturer or this patent date
that would give me any substantial history.Though it has a 1903 patent date i'm
not really sure of its actual date era.thank you to anyone who could assist me
with any information.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Further to my recent post I have now examined a Schoenner flat pattern compass
and in fact it does not use the Schoenner patent straightening device but uses
the Richter type. However this is a much later instrument.

The H Cole Co of Columbus, Ohio sold Richter instruments in the USA, listing
four qualities: highest grade instruments, first quality, and student grade
square pattern instruments and school grade round type. The catalogue is undated
but probably 1920s.

David M Riches

--- In DrawingInstruments@yahoogroups.com, "weymouthdavid" <drdriches@...>
wrote:
>
> I can confirm that these would be Schoenner instruments. I have a couple of
these sets with the patent date on the head fork of the compasses on the
opposite side to the Schoenner trade mark, basically a small circle with a
couple of arrows through it. The instruments will be made of nickel silver (also
called German silver and electrum). I am not sure how long they continued to be
made for but one of my sets is dated 1912. Both of my sets are square pattern
(sometimes called American pattern) but there is no reason why this
straightening device could not have been used on flat pattern instruments as
well.
>
> David M Riches
>
> --- In DrawingInstruments@yahoogroups.com, "collectingken" <ken_kjs@> wrote:
> >
> > I suspect these are Schoenner instruments. Check patent No. 723041 on Google
patents to verify that this resembles your instruments. The patent is for a
straightening device for the head of the compass.
> >
> > It's possible that the SPECIAL designation indicates that it was a set
created specifically for a college at their request.
> >
> > --- In DrawingInstruments@yahoogroups.com, ELLEN LAIR <elair1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello ,can anyone have any information or history on a set of mechanical
drawing tools i acquired in a sale .it is a wooden case covered in leather the
inside top has blue silk like material with the name "The Special" stamped on it
and the bottom is blue velvet,it has a sliding rod for locking the case closed
.There are 9 pieces to this set all silver toned with a patent stamp of march 17
1903.I have not been sucessful in finding this manufacturer or this patent date
that would give me any substantial history.Though it has a 1903 patent date i'm
not really sure of its actual date era.thank you to anyone who could assist me
with any information.
> > >
> >
>

I can confirm that these would be Schoenner instruments. I have a couple of
these sets with the patent date on the head fork of the compasses on the
opposite side to the Schoenner trade mark, basically a small circle with a
couple of arrows through it. The instruments will be made of nickel silver (also
called German silver and electrum). I am not sure how long they continued to be
made for but one of my sets is dated 1912. Both of my sets are square pattern
(sometimes called American pattern) but there is no reason why this
straightening device could not have been used on flat pattern instruments as
well.

David M Riches

--- In DrawingInstruments@yahoogroups.com, "collectingken" <ken_kjs@...> wrote:
>
> I suspect these are Schoenner instruments. Check patent No. 723041 on Google
patents to verify that this resembles your instruments. The patent is for a
straightening device for the head of the compass.
>
> It's possible that the SPECIAL designation indicates that it was a set created
specifically for a college at their request.
>
> --- In DrawingInstruments@yahoogroups.com, ELLEN LAIR <elair1@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello ,can anyone have any information or history on a set of mechanical
drawing tools i acquired in a sale .it is a wooden case covered in leather the
inside top has blue silk like material with the name "The Special" stamped on it
and the bottom is blue velvet,it has a sliding rod for locking the case closed
.There are 9 pieces to this set all silver toned with a patent stamp of march 17
1903.I have not been sucessful in finding this manufacturer or this patent date
that would give me any substantial history.Though it has a 1903 patent date i'm
not really sure of its actual date era.thank you to anyone who could assist me
with any information.
> >
>

I suspect these are Schoenner instruments. Check patent No. 723041 on Google
patents to verify that this resembles your instruments. The patent is for a
straightening device for the head of the compass.

It's possible that the SPECIAL designation indicates that it was a set created
specifically for a college at their request.

--- In DrawingInstruments@yahoogroups.com, ELLEN LAIR <elair1@...> wrote:
>
> Hello ,can anyone have any information or history on a set of mechanical
drawing tools i acquired in a sale .it is a wooden case covered in leather the
inside top has blue silk like material with the name "The Special" stamped on it
and the bottom is blue velvet,it has a sliding rod for locking the case closed
.There are 9 pieces to this set all silver toned with a patent stamp of march 17
1903.I have not been sucessful in finding this manufacturer or this patent date
that would give me any substantial history.Though it has a 1903 patent date i'm
not really sure of its actual date era.thank you to anyone who could assist me
with any information.
>

On 11/14/2009 10:44 PM, ELLEN LAIR wrote:
>
>
> Hello ,can anyone have any information or history on a set of mechanical
> drawing tools i acquired in a sale .it is a wooden case covered in
> leather the inside top has blue silk like material with the name "The
> Special" stamped on it and the bottom is blue velvet,it has a sliding
> rod for locking the case closed .There are 9 pieces to this set all
> silver toned with a patent stamp of march 17 1903.

This Google search should show all the patents issued on that date, OCR
errors aside:

http://www.google.com/patents?num=100&q=%22march+17%22+&btnG=Search+Patents&as_d\
rrb_is=b&as_minm_is=3&as_miny_is=1903&as_maxm_is=3&as_maxy_is=1903

I did a quick scan through the list, but the titles often don't give an
accurate description of the invention, so you may have to look at some
of them in detail and hope to find a match.

--
Bill Burns
Long Island   NY   USA
http://ftldesign.com

I have posted a picture of a Brook's pattern B flexible curve. It is 12" long
and spring steel backed with brass links which both set and hold the shape. It
is one of a number of types of Brook's flexible and celluloid curves that were
sold by all the major drawing instrument firms in Britain in the first half of
the 20th century. This has the number 2143/092 stamped on one of the links and
this is also on the card box so it was possibly made for the British government.
There is no maker's name on the instrument or the box.

It was made in 9, 12 and 18 inch sizes.

Although these must have been made in considerable numbers they are now
difficult to find.

David M Riches

Ron,

Yes, the centre is glass with cross hairs for alignment. That's the same as on
my much earlier John Cail instrument (photos 63 to 65 in my album). However on
that one setting of the angle is by rack and pinion, The Stanley one uses a
clamp and tangent screw arrangement, which superseded the rack and pinion on
these instruments in about the 3rd quarter of the 19th century.

I purchased the Stanley one at the Scientific Instrument Fair in London last
Sunday for quite a reasonable price. The box was tatty and coming apart but I
soon fixed that.

David Riches

--- In DrawingInstruments@yahoogroups.com, "ronbo717" <ronbo717@...> wrote:
>
> A very nice instrument.  What is in the center to align over the origin point?
I would guess glass with cross hairs etched in black?  Thanks.
> Ron
>
> --- In DrawingInstruments@yahoogroups.com, "weymouthdavid" <drdriches@> wrote:
> >
> > I have uploaded pictures of my latest acquisition, a W F Stanley folding arm
vernier protractor. It is made of electrum (German silver) with inset silver
scale and silver vernier scales. The protractor diameter is six inches. Probably
dates from around 1900.
> >
> > David M Riches
> >
>

A very nice instrument.  What is in the center to align over the origin point? 
I would guess glass with cross hairs etched in black?  Thanks.
Ron

--- In DrawingInstruments@yahoogroups.com, "weymouthdavid" <drdriches@...>
wrote:
>
> I have uploaded pictures of my latest acquisition, a W F Stanley folding arm
vernier protractor. It is made of electrum (German silver) with inset silver
scale and silver vernier scales. The protractor diameter is six inches. Probably
dates from around 1900.
>
> David M Riches
>

I have uploaded pictures of my latest acquisition, a W F Stanley folding arm
vernier protractor. It is made of electrum (German silver) with inset silver
scale and silver vernier scales. The protractor diameter is six inches. Probably
dates from around 1900.

David M Riches