In a message dated 1/12/2007 1:58:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jeanettevictoria@... writes:

I'm sorry you misunderstood my sarcasm about "Bush being the real terrorist" it is something  I hear often on the democratic underground and the DailyKos  people who are also in severe denial about the threat that faces this country and Western civilization.>

President Bush is well informed in stating that our war is on all terrorists, no matter what their ideology.  The US is currently at war with terrorists who are Islamists, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Marxists, Communists, Stalinists, Marxists, and secularists. 

As not being interested in facts,  I think you are projecting. There are plenty of facts that show that the organizations that fund terrorism also fund CAIR. The Islamic Association of Palestine is an Islamic terrorist organization that raised funds in the US for terrorist attacks in Israel. Are you aware that  CAIR's co-founder, Omar Ahmed, also co-founded the Islamic Association for Palestine?>

Has Omar Ahmed been indicted for anything?  No.   In the IRS records (form 990) of the IAP, Omar Ahmed is not listed as a founder or officer.  Some unofficial sources claim he was a director of IAP.  IAP, now a defunct organization, raised funds for terrorists, but whether he was associated or not, Ahmed was never indicted for any crime related to terrorism or supporting terrorism, let alone arrested and convicted.  But hey, he's a Muslim, so let's throw out our Constitution and presume him guilty until proven innocent, right? Isn't that the way that Spencer and his ilk want us to think?

CAIR's executive director, Nihad Awad, has described himself as a "supporter of the Hamas movement. You did know that lower-level CAIR officials have been arrested and indicted on terrorism-related charges in the United States?>

I do know that ex members of CAIR were indicted for terrorism related charges for events that they allegedly committed after they left CAIR  and are awaiting trial.  Again, shall we go assuming that they are guilty before the justice system has a chance to make that decision? 

 

As to anyone who describes themselves as a supporter of Hamas, I certainly don't agree with them, but as long as they are not actively providing material or financial support, then they are free to express their opinions.  Remember that First Amendment thing? 

Here are some more facts for you

The Saudi-based Islamic Development Bank, gave CAIR $250,000 in August 1999. The IDB also manages funds (Al-Quds, Al-Aqsa) which finance suicide bombings against Israeli civilians by providing funds to the families of Palestinian "martyrs.">

Ooh, I'm all tingly!  Are we going to play Six Degrees of Bacon now?   This is just one of the differences between the Islamophobes and those who fight hate speech.  The Islamophobes play games with vague innuendos, tenuous (or often completely fictitious) associations, claims of misdeeds that only exist in their imagination, without presenting any facts to support these, while those who fight hate speech do so based on facts and logic. 

The International Institute of Islamic Thought, an organization linked to the Muslim Brotherhood, gave CAIR's Washington office $14,000 in 2003, according to IIIT tax filings. David Kane, who investigated IIIT as part of Operation Green Quest's probe into some one hundred companies and organizations, described in a sworn affidavit the various ways in which it may have funded suspected terrorist-front organizations. >

So what?  If real (and that has not been proven) they gave to a civil rights organization.  Can anyone prove that CAIR used the money to commit acts of terrorism?  What's that, you say?  Speak up, it sounded like a "no".  It's funny, these same type of allegations used to be made against Dr. Martin Luther King.

The International Relief Organization (also called the International Islamic Relief Organization, or IIRO), a Saudi-financed organization being investigated by the U.S. Senate Committee on Finance for terrorism financing donated at least $12,000 to CAIR.>

See above.  Can anyone prove that CAIR used the money to commit acts of terrorism?   As to the Senate, they investigated Muslim-based charities including the IIRQ in 2004. US Dept of State - Senators Request Tax Information on Muslim Charities for Probe    Oh no!  The Senate forgot to investigate CAIR in this list of charities!  Surely there must be some mistake, if Kaufman and Spencer accuse them, they absolutely must be guilty!!!!!!!  

 

The International Relief Organization, the IIRQ, International Islamic Relief are not on the Treasury Dept's SDN list at http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/sdn/t11sdn.pdf

 

The Senate investigation ended in November 2005, and they found no evidence of wrongdoing by IIRQ.  Nothing, nado, zip, zilch, zero.   (I know, there's those darn facts again, they keep getting in the way, don't they?)

 

 

Randall Royer, CAIR's communications specialist and civil rights coordinator, was indicted on charges of conspiring to help Al-Qaeda and the Taliban to battle American troops in Afghanistan. He later pled guilty to lesser firearms-related charges and was sentenced to twenty years in prison.>

 

Back in the real world, Randall Todd Royer was indicted on 12 counts of carrying a firearm, 1 count of discharging a firearm in a crime of violence,  and 1 count of conspiracy in case number  1:03-cr-00296, at U.S. District Court Eastern District of Virginia.  Royer  pled guilty in January 2004 to a two-count criminal information charging him with aiding and abetting the use and discharge of a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence, and with aiding and abetting the carrying of an explosive during the commission of a felony.  Royer was accused of aiding and abetting others gain entry into a Pakistan (not Afghanistan) terrorist training camp of the group LET (Lashkar-e-Taiba), NOT al Qaida.  (Your post is lacking in accuracy of details.)  See the DoJ press release at:
#225: 04-09-04 RANDALL TODD ROYER AND IBRAHIM AHMED AL-HAMDI SENTENCED FOR PARTICIPATION IN VIRGINIA JIHAD NETWORK

 

HOWEVER, even Frontpagemag states that Royer was an EX employee of CAIR.  It is completely illogical to impugn an organization for what it's EX employees do after they become EX employees.  It is somewhat disingenuous above to not mention that he was an EX employee.

Ghassan Elashi, the founder of CAIR's Texas chapter, was convicted in July 2004 along with his four brothers of having illegally shipped computers from their Dallas-area business, InfoCom Corporation, to Libya and Syria, two designated state sponsors of terrorism. In April of 2005, Elashi and two brothers were also convicted of knowingly doing business with Mousa Abu Marzook, a senior Hamas leader and Specially Designated Terrorist. He continues to face charges that he provided more than $12.4 million to Hamas while he was running the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF), America's largest Islamic charity.

Bassem Khafagi, CAIR's community relations director, pleaded guilty in September 2003 to lying on his visa application and for passing bad checks for substantial amounts in early 2001, for which he was deported. Khafagi was also a founding member and president of the Islamic Assembly of North America (IANA), an organization under investigation by the U.S. Department of Justice for terrorism-related activities.

Rabih Haddad, a CAIR fundraiser, was arrested on terrorism-related charges and deported from the United States due to his subsequent work as executive director of the Global Relief Foundation, a charity he co-founded; in October 2002, GRF was designated by the U.S. Treasury Department for financing Al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations. According to a CAIR complaint, Homam Albaroudi, a member of CAIR's Michigan chapter and also a founding member and executive director of the IANA also founded the Free Rabih Haddad Committee.

Siraj Wahhaj, a CAIR advisory board member, was named in 1995 by U.S. Attorney Mary Jo White as a possible unindicted co-conspirator in connection with the plot to blow up New York City landmarks led by the blind sheikh, Omar Abdul Rahman. 

Ihsan Bagby, a future CAIR board member, stated in the late 1980s that Muslims "can never be full citizens of this country," referring to the United States, "because there is no way we can be fully committed to the institutions and ideologies of this country."

Ibrahim Hooper, the future CAIR spokesman, told the Minneapolis Star Tribune on April 4, 1993: "I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future."

Omar Ahmad, CAIR's chairman, announced in July 1998 that "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran . . . should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth."  >

 

See above for response to all this.

So guess what I'm not impressed with "they have won some awards" So what, Arafat won the Noble Peace prize.

So I ask again you even *care* that the national legal director for CAIR would not say that neither Hezbollah nor Hamas was a terrorist organization? Aren't you two just a wee bit concerned?>

 

 

Already asked and answered.  Your claims above consist of insinuations, distortion of facts, "forgetting to mention" important facts, allegations of very tenuous associations with others who themselves very tenously, possibly, may have some vague association with terrorism. 

 

I've always said that CAIR has some problems, and I certainly don't agree with everything they say.  However, what they say is protected under the US Constitution.  The people you follow, Spencer, Kaufman and their ilk, want the US to throw away the Constitution, and continue, just like you, with their unreasoned, irrational, paranoid condemnation of Muslims and Islam, while playing fast and loose with facts and reality. 

Oh yeah and that threat to expose me in you blog. Aren't you the petty bully?  And how Christian of you! Here we go the "man of God" is going to expose me on his blog because I don't walk look step to his liberal tune. Mr. Sutter I suggest you look up the definition of fascist. Oh yeah and libel.

My blog exposes the purveyors of hate speech, using well documented facts and most commonly their own words.  It makes absolutely no difference what ideology the hate monger follows, what religion, political affiliation, philosophy, race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation they may be.  What mattes is the hate speech, and their inability to see facts and the harm that this does to our country. 

 

You may want to go back to your Bible (IIRC, you claim to be a Christian) and look at the verses about loving your neighbor and not lying.

 

If anyone who is exposed on my blog believes that they have been libeled, they are more than welcome to sue me.  Once they do, I can introduce into evidence every single one of their emails, blogs, websites and interviews as examples of hate speech, which makes it public record in the media.  Of course, my blog is being picked up by the media already, so some of that may be redundant.   

 

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Rev. Jim Sutter
Cleveland Ohio
http://hatewatchhallofshame.blogspot.com
http://revjimsutter.blogspot.com