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#48578 From: "ballard_bootlegger" <whitney@...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:52 pm
Subject: Re: Induction hobs
ballard_boot...
Send Email Send Email
 
I've done this with pretty good results.  What I recommend as opposed to a store
bought hob is a 1/4" thick piece of steel cut to match the bottom of your
stainless vessel.

Drink well,
Whitney.

Cheers!



--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "made_it_myself" <doctorlawrencebrown@...>
wrote:
>
> I just wondered if any of you out there with Stainless boilers have tried
using an induction hob?
> Just thinking that because they are so efficient they might have a use.
>

#48579 From: "Byron" <odiekokee@...>
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:19 am
Subject: mash question
odiekokee
Send Email Send Email
 
My apology for a overly simple question:

With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day
to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and
dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit
till I have time to finish the process.

Much obliged,
Me.

#48580 From: anthony chiappetta <achiappetta512@...>
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:05 pm
Subject: Re: Re: carbon filtering
anthonyinsmi...
Send Email Send Email
 
hello, interesting, so you put carbon in you column on your still? also were can i get 50 lbs for 40 bucks? thanks

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 6:28 AM, edbar44 <edbar44@...> wrote:
 



you're supposed saturate or boil the carbon (after rinsing) since it is supposed to increase it filtering ability, not sure if that's a fact. anyway if you clean the carbon and it's saturated, depending on your volume, your product will force the water out when it is going down the column, depending on your setup, mine hold about 500 ml of water, so when I begin filtering, I wait for the 500 ml to come out and then start testing for alcohol, I guess I lose about 150 ml but you get it back on the back end when you're changing carbon. I add 500 ml to the empty column and flush out the remaining alcohol. so 150 ml of 40% ABV isn't much. I usually run my carbon for 3000 ml unless some flavors begin to appear.

hope this helps, just my way of doing things. I never reuse the carbon, too much trouble cleaning it properly and you can get 50# bags for about $40. I've used 2 bags in 6 years.

read the carbon handbook if you haven't already, it's posted in many places on the boards and suppliers web sites.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mccumster" <dmccallum76@...> wrote:
>
> How much alcohol do you lose when carbon filtering. Does the proof drop a substantial amount?
>



#48581 From: "jnhaller@..." <jnhaller@...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:13 pm
Subject: Still Data Spreadsheet
jnhaller...
Send Email Send Email
 
Sometime in the past few months I read that there was an interest in having a
spreadsheet available to input all of the typical data taken during a spirit
run. I have made a spreadsheet for myself, based on my reflux still design. It
has a 15 gallon keg as a boiler with two separate electric heating coils - one
controlled by an on/off switch, the other controlled by a rheostat. It has an
expansion or onion section above the keg with a 2 inch by 40 inch copper reflux
section rising above that into the head. A liebig condenser taps off the side of
the head thru a gate valve. This drops down into a perot and then discharges
into collection jars.

The attached spreadsheet template is divided into two parts. The left side
(color coded yellow) requires the users input. The right side (color coded
green) has calculated values. The only exception to this is block Y2. I do a
pre-calculated estimate of the total volume of alcohol (at 100% abv) available
in the boiling kettle before starting the run. The spreadsheet then calculates
the remaining available volume as samples are taken.

I have also included my last spreadsheet from a spirit run to show you a typical
result. I find it very handy during and after the run. Since I couldn't figure
out how to attach the files directly to this message, I have downloaded them to
the Files section of this Group under the names "Distillation Data Spreadsheet"
and "Distillation Data Spirit Run". They are in Excel 2010 format. If needed, I
could possibly save them in another format that you can use.

I hope someone can find this useful.

Jim

#48582 From: "Ed Barcik" <edbar44@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:02 pm
Subject: Re: carbon filtering
edbar44
Send Email Send Email
 

No, I have a separate 1 ½ “ copper column for filtering and Calgon sells the carbon although difficult to buy unless you are a water treatment guy.

 


#48583 From: Peggy Korth <rpk@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: Still Data Spreadsheet
rpkwater1
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks for sharing.  How do we get the to attachment.  There is no attachment in
the email.  Perhaps you could upload the spreadsheet into the files section.

Best wishes and on this day of Thanksgiving, we appreciate everyone's sharing.
Peggy

----- Original Message -----
Sometime in the past few months I read that there was an interest in having a
spreadsheet available to input all of the typical data taken during a spirit
run. I have made a spreadsheet for myself, based on my reflux still design. It
has a 15 gallon keg as a boiler with two separate electric heating coils - one
controlled by an on/off switch, the other controlled by a rheostat. It has an
expansion or onion section above the keg with a 2 inch by 40 inch copper reflux
section rising above that into the head. A liebig condenser taps off the side of
the head thru a gate valve. This drops down into a perot and then discharges
into collection jars.

The attached spreadsheet template is divided into two parts. The left side
(color coded yellow) requires the users input. The right side (color coded
green) has calculated values. The only exception to this is block Y2. I do a
pre-calculated estimate of the total volume of alcohol (at 100% abv) available
in the boiling kettle before starting the run. The spreadsheet then calculates
the remaining available volume as samples are taken.

I have also included my last spreadsheet from a spirit run to show you a typical
result. I find it very handy during and after the run. Since I couldn't figure
out how to attach the files directly to this message, I have downloaded them to
the Files section of this Group under the names "Distillation Data Spreadsheet"
and "Distillation Data Spirit Run". They are in Excel 2010 format. If needed, I
could possibly save them in another format that you can use.

I hope someone can find this useful.

Jim







------------------------------------

  Distillers list archives :
http://www.taet.com.au/distillers.nsf/

  FAQ, Howto distil etc. :
http://homedistiller.orgYahoo! Groups Links

#48584 From: Peggy Korth <rpk@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:23 pm
Subject: Fwd: Still Data Spreadsheet
rpkwater1
Send Email Send Email
 
Oops... found it... I had not scrolled through the entire list.


----- Forwarded Message -----
Thanks for sharing.  How do we get the to attachment.  There is no attachment in
the email.  Perhaps you could upload the spreadsheet into the files section.

Best wishes and on this day of Thanksgiving, we appreciate everyone's sharing.
Peggy

----- Original Message -----
Sometime in the past few months I read that there was an interest in having a
spreadsheet available to input all of the typical data taken during a spirit
run. I have made a spreadsheet for myself, based on my reflux still design. It
has a 15 gallon keg as a boiler with two separate electric heating coils - one
controlled by an on/off switch, the other controlled by a rheostat. It has an
expansion or onion section above the keg with a 2 inch by 40 inch copper reflux
section rising above that into the head. A liebig condenser taps off the side of
the head thru a gate valve. This drops down into a perot and then discharges
into collection jars.

The attached spreadsheet template is divided into two parts. The left side
(color coded yellow) requires the users input. The right side (color coded
green) has calculated values. The only exception to this is block Y2. I do a
pre-calculated estimate of the total volume of alcohol (at 100% abv) available
in the boiling kettle before starting the run. The spreadsheet then calculates
the remaining available volume as samples are taken.

I have also included my last spreadsheet from a spirit run to show you a typical
result. I find it very handy during and after the run. Since I couldn't figure
out how to attach the files directly to this message, I have downloaded them to
the Files section of this Group under the names "Distillation Data Spreadsheet"
and "Distillation Data Spirit Run". They are in Excel 2010 format. If needed, I
could possibly save them in another format that you can use.

I hope someone can find this useful.

Jim







------------------------------------

  Distillers list archives :
http://www.taet.com.au/distillers.nsf/

  FAQ, Howto distil etc. :
http://homedistiller.orgYahoo! Groups Links

#48585 From: "John S. Thomas" <john@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:16 pm
Subject: RE: mash question
jthomas92593
Send Email Send Email
 
You may have mashing and fermenting mixed up.  Mashing is the process of
cooking the grain and then washing out the sugars.  This process take
anywhere from one hour to 90 minutes.  The fermentation cycle is where you
add yeast after the wort or the sugars are washed from the mash then boiled
for 90 minutes, cooled then the yeasted is added.  This fermentation process
takes any where from five to ten days.   The fermentation process goes from
a beginning gravity to and ending specific gravity.  This process can be
forced or shortened or so I am told.  I would not let the mash or
fermentation process sit past when it is done.  Beer or wort can become
infected very easily.



John S. Thomas

   _____

From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Byron
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:19 PM
To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Distillers] mash question





My apology for a overly simple question:

With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a
day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is
done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i
leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.

Much obliged,
Me.

#48586 From: anthony chiappetta <achiappetta512@...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:41 pm
Subject: Re: mash question
anthonyinsmi...
Send Email Send Email
 
there is an enzyme that will grow and eat your mash's alcohol and sour the mash. in our 1000 gallon mashes it happens in 7-10 days and changes the flavor profile, not to mention the lost in alcohol can be from 4-12 % depending on the time left before distilling.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Byron <odiekokee@...> wrote:
 

My apology for a overly simple question:

With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.

Much obliged,
Me.



#48587 From: "last2blast" <last2blast@...>
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:54 am
Subject: Re: mash question
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
My problem with this question and answers is that wine would lose a great deal
of its alcohol content if there was an enzyme that consumes alcohol.  You would
have trouble storing spirits to sell because you would lose spirits.  How would
a distiller justify this loss of spirits to TTB?  I am new to distilling, but in
all of my studies no one ever mentioned a drunk enzyme. =D



--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "John S. Thomas" <john@...> wrote:
>
> You may have mashing and fermenting mixed up.  Mashing is the process of
> cooking the grain and then washing out the sugars.  This process take
> anywhere from one hour to 90 minutes.  The fermentation cycle is where you
> add yeast after the wort or the sugars are washed from the mash then boiled
> for 90 minutes, cooled then the yeasted is added.  This fermentation process
> takes any where from five to ten days.   The fermentation process goes from
> a beginning gravity to and ending specific gravity.  This process can be
> forced or shortened or so I am told.  I would not let the mash or
> fermentation process sit past when it is done.  Beer or wort can become
> infected very easily.
>
>
>
> John S. Thomas
>
>   _____
>
> From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Byron
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:19 PM
> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Distillers] mash question
>
>
>
>
>
> My apology for a overly simple question:
>
> With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a
> day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is
> done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i
> leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
>
> Much obliged,
> Me.
>

#48588 From: "last2blast" <last2blast@...>
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:08 pm
Subject: Re: carbon filtering
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
I purchased a large water filter that you would attach under your sink or
basement.  There are several different types of cartridges that you can purchase
for them.  I purchased one that looks like yarn on a roll and a charcoal filter.
A small amount of charcoal will become dislodged during filtering, so it
requires a second filter.  In the future, I will purchase two of them.  Run it
through the charcoal and then the second filter.  It well require a good pump to
push it through both filters.  Hope this helps.




--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Barcik" <edbar44@...> wrote:
>
> No, I have a separate 1 ½ " copper column for filtering and Calgon sells the
> carbon although difficult to buy unless you are a water treatment guy.
>

#48589 From: Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...>
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:35 pm
Subject: Re: Re: mash question
AreoSpike
Send Email Send Email
 
It's not an enzyme, it's a bacteria called acetobacter and it's how vinegar is made. It's killed at about 7% abv and isn't volatile. I think it dies at 61°C after 1 minute, but I don't use the stuff. 

On Nov 29, 2012, at 6:54 AM, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:

 

My problem with this question and answers is that wine would lose a great deal of its alcohol content if there was an enzyme that consumes alcohol. You would have trouble storing spirits to sell because you would lose spirits. How would a distiller justify this loss of spirits to TTB? I am new to distilling, but in all of my studies no one ever mentioned a drunk enzyme. =D

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "John S. Thomas" <john@...> wrote:
>
> You may have mashing and fermenting mixed up. Mashing is the process of
> cooking the grain and then washing out the sugars. This process take
> anywhere from one hour to 90 minutes. The fermentation cycle is where you
> add yeast after the wort or the sugars are washed from the mash then boiled
> for 90 minutes, cooled then the yeasted is added. This fermentation process
> takes any where from five to ten days. The fermentation process goes from
> a beginning gravity to and ending specific gravity. This process can be
> forced or shortened or so I am told. I would not let the mash or
> fermentation process sit past when it is done. Beer or wort can become
> infected very easily.
>
>
>
> John S. Thomas
>
> _____
>
> From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Byron
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:19 PM
> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Distillers] mash question
>
>
>
>
>
> My apology for a overly simple question:
>
> With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a
> day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is
> done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i
> leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
>
> Much obliged,
> Me.
>


#48590 From: <bob@...>
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Subject: interesting link
bobcrowder2001
Send Email Send Email
 

http://www.etcsupply.com/

 

Looks like an interesting link for controllers.

 

Bob c

 


#48591 From: "ballard_bootlegger" <whitney@...>
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2012 12:58 am
Subject: Re: mash question
ballard_boot...
Send Email Send Email
 
Leaving a mash to sit once vigorous fermentation has finished is generally a bad
idea.  If you dropped a camden tablet and/or boiled your wash before fermenting
as you would with beer AND put it in a sterile, air tight vessel you might be
able to keep it for a month.  Unless you have a reason to leave it I wouldn't
recommend it.  The worst is those infections can spread to other washes you
might have going.

I once had a nasty run in with a bacterial infection just 24 hours after mashing
some rye.  It smelled up the whole house with this rotten cereal/noxious odor,
I've never smelled anything like it.  I tried to save it, I even was able to
fight the pH enough to accomplish some fermentation but when I ran it through
the beer stripper it just tasted terrible.  Blech.

For the question of lost alcohol and the TTB, they don't require excise tax till
it's distilled so the loss would just be ingredients and time.

Drink Well
-W.

#48592 From: "ballard_bootlegger" <whitney@...>
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2012 1:02 am
Subject: Re: carbon filtering
ballard_boot...
Send Email Send Email
 
-No, you wouldn't want any trace of carbon in the actual still.  The carbon will
end up releasing what it picked up and potentially create unwanted compounds. 
You'll get a blue distillate that smells like ammonia.  On the bright side you
can filter it out and re-distill without too much difficulty.

#48593 From: anthony chiappetta <achiappetta512@...>
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:14 pm
Subject: Re: Re: mash question
anthonyinsmi...
Send Email Send Email
 
yes there are losts, as for the TTB, they dont care about how much we make, ( kind of ),  but what we bottle and what goes out the door for promos and to retail, its all about the taxes. i can not explain why wine does not have the same problems as mash does when storedt but there is an biological reaction that "eats" alcohol if you leave it sit. I will ask our phd chemist to explain it, when he gets a chance.

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 5:54 AM, last2blast <last2blast@...> wrote:
 

My problem with this question and answers is that wine would lose a great deal of its alcohol content if there was an enzyme that consumes alcohol. You would have trouble storing spirits to sell because you would lose spirits. How would a distiller justify this loss of spirits to TTB? I am new to distilling, but in all of my studies no one ever mentioned a drunk enzyme. =D

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "John S. Thomas" <john@...> wrote:
>
> You may have mashing and fermenting mixed up. Mashing is the process of
> cooking the grain and then washing out the sugars. This process take
> anywhere from one hour to 90 minutes. The fermentation cycle is where you
> add yeast after the wort or the sugars are washed from the mash then boiled
> for 90 minutes, cooled then the yeasted is added. This fermentation process
> takes any where from five to ten days. The fermentation process goes from
> a beginning gravity to and ending specific gravity. This process can be
> forced or shortened or so I am told. I would not let the mash or
> fermentation process sit past when it is done. Beer or wort can become
> infected very easily.
>
>
>
> John S. Thomas
>
> _____
>
> From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Byron
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:19 PM
> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Distillers] mash question
>
>
>
>
>
> My apology for a overly simple question:
>
> With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a
> day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is
> done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i
> leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
>
> Much obliged,
> Me.
>



#48594 From: Luke Moore <evil.moore69@...>
Date: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:18 pm
Subject: Re: Re: mash question
evil.moore69@...
Send Email Send Email
 
i believe once its fermented, you need to remove the deadspace oxygen part in the container if you want to store it for lenghts of time. 

its the interaction with oxygen that creates long term negatives.

On 29/11/2012, at 22:54, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:

 

My problem with this question and answers is that wine would lose a great deal of its alcohol content if there was an enzyme that consumes alcohol. You would have trouble storing spirits to sell because you would lose spirits. How would a distiller justify this loss of spirits to TTB? I am new to distilling, but in all of my studies no one ever mentioned a drunk enzyme. =D

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "John S. Thomas" <john@...> wrote:
>
> You may have mashing and fermenting mixed up. Mashing is the process of
> cooking the grain and then washing out the sugars. This process take
> anywhere from one hour to 90 minutes. The fermentation cycle is where you
> add yeast after the wort or the sugars are washed from the mash then boiled
> for 90 minutes, cooled then the yeasted is added. This fermentation process
> takes any where from five to ten days. The fermentation process goes from
> a beginning gravity to and ending specific gravity. This process can be
> forced or shortened or so I am told. I would not let the mash or
> fermentation process sit past when it is done. Beer or wort can become
> infected very easily.
>
>
>
> John S. Thomas
>
> _____
>
> From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Byron
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:19 PM
> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Distillers] mash question
>
>
>
>
>
> My apology for a overly simple question:
>
> With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a
> day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is
> done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i
> leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
>
> Much obliged,
> Me.
>


#48595 From: "last2blast" <last2blast@...>
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:02 am
Subject: Re: mash question
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
If you added garlic to mash, would it kill the bacteria without harming the
yeast in mash?

I will conduct an experiment to see how well garlic and yeast react to each
other in a simple sugar mash.









--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:
>
> It's not an enzyme, it's a bacteria called acetobacter and it's how vinegar is
made. It's killed at about 7% abv and isn't volatile. I think it dies at 61°C
after 1 minute, but I don't use the stuff.
>
> On Nov 29, 2012, at 6:54 AM, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:
>
> > My problem with this question and answers is that wine would lose a great
deal of its alcohol content if there was an enzyme that consumes alcohol. You
would have trouble storing spirits to sell because you would lose spirits. How
would a distiller justify this loss of spirits to TTB? I am new to distilling,
but in all of my studies no one ever mentioned a drunk enzyme. =D
> >
> > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "John S. Thomas" <john@> wrote:
> > >
> > > You may have mashing and fermenting mixed up. Mashing is the process of
> > > cooking the grain and then washing out the sugars. This process take
> > > anywhere from one hour to 90 minutes. The fermentation cycle is where you
> > > add yeast after the wort or the sugars are washed from the mash then
boiled
> > > for 90 minutes, cooled then the yeasted is added. This fermentation
process
> > > takes any where from five to ten days. The fermentation process goes from
> > > a beginning gravity to and ending specific gravity. This process can be
> > > forced or shortened or so I am told. I would not let the mash or
> > > fermentation process sit past when it is done. Beer or wort can become
> > > infected very easily.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > John S. Thomas
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Byron
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:19 PM
> > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Distillers] mash question
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My apology for a overly simple question:
> > >
> > > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a
> > > day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast
is
> > > done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i
> > > leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
> > >
> > > Much obliged,
> > > Me.
> > >
> >
> >
>

#48596 From: anthony chiappetta <achiappetta512@...>
Date: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:06 pm
Subject: Re: interesting link
anthonyinsmi...
Send Email Send Email
 
FYI, you can finded Johnson A419 controller on amazon at have the price, altho they are 120 volt only.

On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 12:46 PM, <bob@...> wrote:
 

http://www.etcsupply.com/

 

Looks like an interesting link for controllers.

 

Bob c

 



#48597 From: anthony chiappetta <achiappetta512@...>
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2012 2:39 am
Subject: Re: Re: mash question
anthonyinsmi...
Send Email Send Email
 
ok guys i got our PHD biochemist to type this up, i now have a greater understanding of it.

Here is what I know about storing mash.
alcohol yeast make ethanol and carbon dioxide in anaerobic conditions. To make these products, the yeast will consume fermentable sugars. If you have a lactobacillus infection at the beginning of the fermentation, you will get lactic acid and diacetyl in addition to ethanol and carbon dioxide. If you have no lactobacillus infection, the yeast will make ethanol and carbon dioxide until they run out of fermentable sugars or the alcohol concentration gets high enough to kill the yeast. At this point is when the bubbling stops in the air lock.
As long as there is no air allowed to enter the fermentation vessel, the fermented mash should stay good for a good while, just like a wine or beer fermentation. However, if even small amounts of air get in there, acetic acid will form from the action of other aerobic bacteria, and ruin the batch.
It is no big deal to give the fermentation an extra week or so, but you will really not gain anything from it, especially if you are planning to distill the finished fermentation, and you do run the risk of getting an off batch.


 
Jarle Lillemoen, Ph.D.
Vice President of Research and Development
Bone Spirits, LLC

On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 6:58 PM, ballard_bootlegger <whitney@...> wrote:
 

Leaving a mash to sit once vigorous fermentation has finished is generally a bad idea. If you dropped a camden tablet and/or boiled your wash before fermenting as you would with beer AND put it in a sterile, air tight vessel you might be able to keep it for a month. Unless you have a reason to leave it I wouldn't recommend it. The worst is those infections can spread to other washes you might have going.

I once had a nasty run in with a bacterial infection just 24 hours after mashing some rye. It smelled up the whole house with this rotten cereal/noxious odor, I've never smelled anything like it. I tried to save it, I even was able to fight the pH enough to accomplish some fermentation but when I ran it through the beer stripper it just tasted terrible. Blech.

For the question of lost alcohol and the TTB, they don't require excise tax till it's distilled so the loss would just be ingredients and time.

Drink Well
-W.



#48598 From: "last2blast" <last2blast@...>
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2012 5:11 am
Subject: Re: mash question
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
Agreed that it might cause a future problem!  I am test freezing my first 1
gallon sugar wash to see how well it will hold up until I am ready to process
it.  Since I am only making 1 gallon test batches, it will be easy to store them
in my freezer.  I am interested in attempting sugar jack to see how well it
separates and removes water from my test wash.





--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "ballard_bootlegger" <whitney@...> wrote:
>
> Leaving a mash to sit once vigorous fermentation has finished is generally a
bad idea.  If you dropped a camden tablet and/or boiled your wash before
fermenting as you would with beer AND put it in a sterile, air tight vessel you
might be able to keep it for a month.  Unless you have a reason to leave it I
wouldn't recommend it.  The worst is those infections can spread to other washes
you might have going.
>
> I once had a nasty run in with a bacterial infection just 24 hours after
mashing some rye.  It smelled up the whole house with this rotten cereal/noxious
odor, I've never smelled anything like it.  I tried to save it, I even was able
to fight the pH enough to accomplish some fermentation but when I ran it through
the beer stripper it just tasted terrible.  Blech.
>
> For the question of lost alcohol and the TTB, they don't require excise tax
till it's distilled so the loss would just be ingredients and time.
>
> Drink Well
> -W.
>

#48599 From: "last2blast" <last2blast@...>
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2012 2:55 pm
Subject: Re: mash question
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is being
turned into Sugar Jack.  Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar Jack. 
My original 1.2 gallon test batch has been reduced to 2 quarts.

My wash was divided into to 2 plastic container with narrow necks, and every two
hours I would pour the liquid into another container and hold it over the funnel
until it stopped dripping.  That container was placed in the freezer and the
first container was cleared of ice.  If my wash started out at 10% abv then it
is 20% currently.  I am trying to reduce my wash down to around 15 to 20 oz.,
and it should give me a wash in the neighborhood of 80% abv.  No, I am not going
to drink it because it is full of nasty stuff like Methanol and yeast.

What I am trying to achieve is a way to store my wash until it can be properly
processed.  I have never tried this before, so 80% abv may not be possible, but
it will be fun to try.  I am hoping nothing can survived in 60% to 80% abv wash.




--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@...> wrote:
>
> My apology for a overly simple question:
>
> With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day
to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and
dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit
till I have time to finish the process.
>
> Much obliged,
> Me.
>

#48600 From: White Bear <sha_man_1@...>
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2012 3:53 pm
Subject: Re: Re: mash question
sha_man_1
Send Email Send Email
 
Friends-
 I have been following this thread for a while and plan to do some experiment using dry ice.  I believe that if you HAVE TO wait before distilling your wash the best way to keep oxigen from spoiling the alcohol you could displace it with CO2.  Since in a sterile wash the yeast converts the sugars into alcohol and CO2, to keep it for a length of time put a small amount of dry ice in the "wine, mash, beer" whatever you want to call it and after the sublimation calms down cork the fermenter so no oxigen can get to it.
  To get the dry ice if it is no longer available to you, use a CO2 fire extingusher.  By putting a close knit bag such as musilin, over the nozzle and depress the handle for a few seconds. you will capture the frozen CO2 in "dry" form.  Please wear gloves while doing this so you don't "burn" your hands.  The bag will get frosty and inside you will find small chunks of dry ice.  Drop a small amount into your fermenter and wait for it to calm down then cork or seal the opening.
  I haven't done this yet but I want to next time I have some ready to distill off.  If you have tried this or want to please let us know your results.
WB

From: anthony chiappetta <achiappetta512@...>
To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: mash question
 
yes there are losts, as for the TTB, they dont care about how much we make, ( kind of ),  but what we bottle and what goes out the door for promos and to retail, its all about the taxes. i can not explain why wine does not have the same problems as mash does when storedt but there is an biological reaction that "eats" alcohol if you leave it sit. I will ask our phd chemist to explain it, when he gets a chance.

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 5:54 AM, last2blast <last2blast@...> wrote:
 
My problem with this question and answers is that wine would lose a great deal of its alcohol content if there was an enzyme that consumes alcohol. You would have trouble storing spirits to sell because you would lose spirits. How would a distiller justify this loss of spirits to TTB? I am new to distilling, but in all of my studies no one ever mentioned a drunk enzyme. =D

--- In mailto:Distillers%40yahoogroups.com, "John S. Thomas" <john@...> wrote:
>
> You may have mashing and fermenting mixed up. Mashing is the process of
> cooking the grain and then washing out the sugars. This process take
> anywhere from one hour to 90 minutes. The fermentation cycle is where you
> add yeast after the wort or the sugars are washed from the mash then boiled
> for 90 minutes, cooled then the yeasted is added. This fermentation process
> takes any where from five to ten days. The fermentation process goes from
> a beginning gravity to and ending specific gravity. This process can be
> forced or shortened or so I am told. I would not let the mash or
> fermentation process sit past when it is done. Beer or wort can become
> infected very easily.
>
>
>
> John S. Thomas
>
> _____
>
> From: mailto:Distillers%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:Distillers%40yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Byron
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:19 PM
> To: mailto:Distillers%40yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Distillers] mash question
>
>
>
>
>
> My apology for a overly simple question:
>
> With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a
> day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is
> done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i
> leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
>
> Much obliged,
> Me.
>


#48601 From: Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...>
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2012 7:52 pm
Subject: Re: Re: mash question
AreoSpike
Send Email Send Email
 
The best way to store fermented liquid is to keep them airtight. As long as you don't open them, they'll stay under a blanket of co2. You risk ruining the beer every time you open it. There are all kinds of airborne bacteria that can take hold. Mash your wort,  pitch your yeast, ferment it out and leave it under an airlock. Don't touch it. It will be beer for years. 

On Dec 1, 2012, at 9:55 AM, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:

 

I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is being turned into Sugar Jack. Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar Jack. My original 1.2 gallon test batch has been reduced to 2 quarts.

My wash was divided into to 2 plastic container with narrow necks, and every two hours I would pour the liquid into another container and hold it over the funnel until it stopped dripping. That container was placed in the freezer and the first container was cleared of ice. If my wash started out at 10% abv then it is 20% currently. I am trying to reduce my wash down to around 15 to 20 oz., and it should give me a wash in the neighborhood of 80% abv. No, I am not going to drink it because it is full of nasty stuff like Methanol and yeast.

What I am trying to achieve is a way to store my wash until it can be properly processed. I have never tried this before, so 80% abv may not be possible, but it will be fun to try. I am hoping nothing can survived in 60% to 80% abv wash.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@...> wrote:
>
> My apology for a overly simple question:
>
> With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
>
> Much obliged,
> Me.
>


#48602 From: Adam Fordham <bluwater2828@...>
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2012 8:08 pm
Subject: Re: Re: mash question
bluwater2828
Send Email Send Email
 

Hot mash. Plan ahead. Problem solved.


Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



From: Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...>;
To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: mash question
Sent: Sat, Dec 1, 2012 7:52:56 PM



The best way to store fermented liquid is to keep them airtight. As long as you don't open them, they'll stay under a blanket of co2. You risk ruining the beer every time you open it. There are all kinds of airborne bacteria that can take hold. Mash your wort,  pitch your yeast, ferment it out and leave it under an airlock. Don't touch it. It will be beer for years. 

On Dec 1, 2012, at 9:55 AM, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:

 

I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is being turned into Sugar Jack. Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar Jack. My original 1.2 gallon test batch has been reduced to 2 quarts.

My wash was divided into to 2 plastic container with narrow necks, and every two hours I would pour the liquid into another container and hold it over the funnel until it stopped dripping. That container was placed in the freezer and the first container was cleared of ice. If my wash started out at 10% abv then it is 20% currently. I am trying to reduce my wash down to around 15 to 20 oz., and it should give me a wash in the neighborhood of 80% abv. No, I am not going to drink it because it is full of nasty stuff like Methanol and yeast.

What I am trying to achieve is a way to store my wash until it can be properly processed. I have never tried this before, so 80% abv may not be possible, but it will be fun to try. I am hoping nothing can survived in 60% to 80% abv wash.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@...> wrote:
>
> My apology for a overly simple question:
>
> With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
>
> Much obliged,
> Me.
>




#48603 From: Adam Fordham <bluwater2828@...>
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2012 8:25 pm
Subject: Re: Re: mash question
bluwater2828
Send Email Send Email
 

The character of your distilate will change. Possibly a good thing pprobably a negative thing. There really is no benefit to ageing a wash that I am aware of aside from clearing. A completely fermented out wash is still a wonderful thing to bacteria. Freezing would be best for storage but not practical. Hops was originally added to beer for its antibacterial properties but I wouldn't distill a hopped mash. Oxygen promotes vinegar. Something else to consider would be stressed yeast produce nasty tasting components to survive. The acidity of wine and lack of oxygen is what preserved wine before sulfites were first used. Still works too.


Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



From: Adam Fordham <bluwater2828@...>;
To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>; fredrick@... <fredrick@...>;
Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: mash question
Sent: Sat, Dec 1, 2012 8:08:09 PM



Hot mash. Plan ahead. Problem solved.


Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



From: Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...>;
To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: mash question
Sent: Sat, Dec 1, 2012 7:52:56 PM



The best way to store fermented liquid is to keep them airtight. As long as you don't open them, they'll stay under a blanket of co2. You risk ruining the beer every time you open it. There are all kinds of airborne bacteria that can take hold. Mash your wort,  pitch your yeast, ferment it out and leave it under an airlock. Don't touch it. It will be beer for years. 

On Dec 1, 2012, at 9:55 AM, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:

 

I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is being turned into Sugar Jack. Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar Jack. My original 1.2 gallon test batch has been reduced to 2 quarts.

My wash was divided into to 2 plastic container with narrow necks, and every two hours I would pour the liquid into another container and hold it over the funnel until it stopped dripping. That container was placed in the freezer and the first container was cleared of ice. If my wash started out at 10% abv then it is 20% currently. I am trying to reduce my wash down to around 15 to 20 oz., and it should give me a wash in the neighborhood of 80% abv. No, I am not going to drink it because it is full of nasty stuff like Methanol and yeast.

What I am trying to achieve is a way to store my wash until it can be properly processed. I have never tried this before, so 80% abv may not be possible, but it will be fun to try. I am hoping nothing can survived in 60% to 80% abv wash.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@...> wrote:
>
> My apology for a overly simple question:
>
> With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
>
> Much obliged,
> Me.
>






#48604 From: Eddie Hoskin <eddie_hoskin@...>
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2012 9:40 pm
Subject: Re: Re: mash question
radicaled42
Send Email Send Email
 
FYI, you won't be able to concentrate above ~ 20% this way--at concentrations above 20%, the liquid won't freeze.  You'll have lowered the freezing point so far that your freeze can't freeze it any more.

HTH,
Eddie



From: last2blast <last2blast@...>
To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 9:55 AM
Subject: [Distillers] Re: mash question

 
I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is being turned into Sugar Jack. Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar Jack. My original 1.2 gallon test batch has been reduced to 2 quarts.

My wash was divided into to 2 plastic container with narrow necks, and every two hours I would pour the liquid into another container and hold it over the funnel until it stopped dripping. That container was placed in the freezer and the first container was cleared of ice. If my wash started out at 10% abv then it is 20% currently. I am trying to reduce my wash down to around 15 to 20 oz., and it should give me a wash in the neighborhood of 80% abv. No, I am not going to drink it because it is full of nasty stuff like Methanol and yeast.

What I am trying to achieve is a way to store my wash until it can be properly processed. I have never tried this before, so 80% abv may not be possible, but it will be fun to try. I am hoping nothing can survived in 60% to 80% abv wash.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@...> wrote:
>
> My apology for a overly simple question:
>
> With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
>
> Much obliged,
> Me.
>




#48605 From: Adam Fordham <bluwater2828@...>
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2012 11:28 pm
Subject: Re: Re: mash question
bluwater2828
Send Email Send Email
 

Thats true. But you put a mash in the freezer most If not all of the nastys won't grow and the yeast will go dormant or die off.


Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



From: Eddie Hoskin <eddie_hoskin@...>;
To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: mash question
Sent: Sat, Dec 1, 2012 9:40:59 PM



FYI, you won't be able to concentrate above ~ 20% this way--at concentrations above 20%, the liquid won't freeze.  You'll have lowered the freezing point so far that your freeze can't freeze it any more.

HTH,
Eddie



From: last2blast <last2blast@...>
To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 9:55 AM
Subject: [Distillers] Re: mash question

 
I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is being turned into Sugar Jack. Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar Jack. My original 1.2 gallon test batch has been reduced to 2 quarts.

My wash was divided into to 2 plastic container with narrow necks, and every two hours I would pour the liquid into another container and hold it over the funnel until it stopped dripping. That container was placed in the freezer and the first container was cleared of ice. If my wash started out at 10% abv then it is 20% currently. I am trying to reduce my wash down to around 15 to 20 oz., and it should give me a wash in the neighborhood of 80% abv. No, I am not going to drink it because it is full of nasty stuff like Methanol and yeast.

What I am trying to achieve is a way to store my wash until it can be properly processed. I have never tried this before, so 80% abv may not be possible, but it will be fun to try. I am hoping nothing can survived in 60% to 80% abv wash.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@...> wrote:
>
> My apology for a overly simple question:
>
> With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
>
> Much obliged,
> Me.
>






#48606 From: "last2blast" <last2blast@...>
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2012 1:24 am
Subject: Re: mash question
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks for the info.  So far, my sugar Jack has been reduced to 45 oz. from the
original 150 oz. sugar wash.  An alcohol calculator was found, and my info was
calculated.  My sugar jack stated at around 5.9% abv, and wash has been reduced
to 1/3 original volume. If your 20% is correct, my wash should not freeze again
because it should be just over 23% abv.   I am hoping to reduce it down to 32
oz. so it will fit into a canning jar for storage until it can be processed
further, but 45 oz might be my limit.

Yes, I did read that autos once used Ethanol as anti-freeze, but it will be
interesting to see how much water can be frozen at -10 F and removed.  It will
be a while before I can purchase a still, so all of my concentrated test batched
will be filtered before going into storage.

Robert



--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eddie Hoskin <eddie_hoskin@...> wrote:
>
> FYI, you won't be able to concentrate above ~ 20% this way--at concentrations
above 20%, the liquid won't freeze.  You'll have lowered the freezing point so
far that your freeze can't freeze it any more.
>
> HTH,
> Eddie
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: last2blast <last2blast@...>
> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 9:55 AM
> Subject: [Distillers] Re: mash question
>
>
>  
> I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is
being turned into Sugar Jack.  Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar
Jack.  My original 1.2 gallon test batch has been reduced to 2 quarts.
>
> My wash was divided into to 2 plastic container with narrow necks, and every
two hours I would pour the liquid into another container and hold it over the
funnel until it stopped dripping.  That container was placed in the freezer and
the first container was cleared of ice.  If my wash started out at 10% abv then
it is 20% currently.  I am trying to reduce my wash down to around 15 to 20 oz.,
and it should give me a wash in the neighborhood of 80% abv.  No, I am not going
to drink it because it is full of nasty stuff like Methanol and yeast.
>
> What I am trying to achieve is a way to store my wash until it can be properly
processed.  I have never tried this before, so 80% abv may not be possible, but
it will be fun to try.  I am hoping nothing can survived in 60% to 80% abv wash.
>
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@> wrote:
> >
> > My apology for a overly simple question:
> >
> > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a
day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done
and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to
sit till I have time to finish the process.
> >
> > Much obliged,
> > Me.
> >
>

#48607 From: "last2blast" <last2blast@...>
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2012 1:46 pm
Subject: Re: mash question
last2blast
Send Email Send Email
 
In my experiment with freeze distillation, I was able to take about 150 oz. of
sugar wash and reduce that down to around 25 oz. for cold storage.  For me this
is a perfect way to store my sugar wash until it can be processed further.  I
dipped my finger into my concentrated wash just to get a sense of its taste: On
the front end, it had no taste like water.  On the back end, it was bitter
because it had not been filtered.

Those two drops on my finger gave me a headache, which most likely was the
result of Methanol in my wash.  It also gave me an ever so slight buzz.

I am pleased with the results of my first test.  My way is a lot more labor
intensive, but I am satisfied that my batches will not spoil or become infected
with bacteria.  This will give you something to think about as a means of long
term wash storage until you have time to process it properly.





--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@...> wrote:
>
> My apology for a overly simple question:
>
> With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day
to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and
dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit
till I have time to finish the process.
>
> Much obliged,
> Me.
>

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