A personal welcome to the distiller's list.
My name is Des Zein and I live in Auckland.
Here in New Zealand is has been legal to distill alcohol 'at home for your
own purposes' since October 1998.  In that time a lot of development has
been undertaken in the feilds of equipment and ingredients.
I believe that the experiences of distillers should be shared with others
in order to improve and refine the final product. I also wish to encourage
those setting up for the first time and setting them on the right track
with tried and tested methods.
In a group like this it is difficult to gauge everyones background and
level of experience but that will become apparent as time progresses.

Be cause of my work committments since setting up I have not been able gto
devote the time I should to moderation duties on this list.  However I
promise to set that right from now.
Thank you to all for subscribing to the list, please feel free to post to
it any questions or observations you may have.
I've started the ball rolling now we need your support to keep it rolling.

Regards

Des

Have you ever made brandy using a fruit wine.
How about using apples or plums? Does it have
to be aged? Do you need a pot still or reflux?

How is gin made and can it be done without bottled
flavourings?

Thanks,

Jeff

Jeff
I havn't experimented with fruit brandies mainly because I do know of some
of the pitfalls. The first problem you have when you introduce fruit to a
wash is that you increase the impurity levels, the easiest way to solve this
is with the use of carbon and a reflux still but both of those will remove
flavour. The comercial way to do it would be to put it in a toasted barrel
and a combination of the oak and evaporation will remove the worst of the
fusel oils which is the main problem however this process does take some
time (years). To do it you will need to make up a normal wine recipe except
that I would double the amount of fruit per gallon of wine to intensify the
fruit flavours as even with a pot still you will loose quite a lot during
the distillation process. If you can find a small toasted oak barrel this
would work the best as with a small oak barrell you get a better surface
area exposed to the alcohol. With gin this can be done but you do need two
stills or a still which can be converted from a reflux to a pot still. You
soak Juniper Berries, Corriander Seeds and Lemon Peel plus whatever other
suitable botanicals you can obtain in 70 - 80% alcohol which is very clean
this is then put back through a pot still which removes the browning which
occurs but doesn't introduce any new impurities.
Ray


jeff_o62@... wrote:

> From: jeff_o62@...
>
> Have you ever made brandy using a fruit wine.
> How about using apples or plums? Does it have
> to be aged? Do you need a pot still or reflux?
>
> How is gin made and can it be done without bottled
> flavourings?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
>
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--
Ray Toms Moonshine Supplies, Taupo. New Zealand.
http://moonshine.co.nz
Home Brewing Equipment and Suppliers.
Specialists in all aspects of Home Distillation and Wine/Beer Making.

while I think it is a target to aim for, it is very difficult to produce an
alcohol spirit without the 'exact' same recipe, the 'exact' same
ingredients, and the 'exact' same equipment.

However it is possible to make a very presentable brandy, whisky, etc using
a base distilled alcohol and flavouring essences.  But the story does not
end there.  The taste and smell, and look can be enhanced by adding other
ingredients like caramel essence for colour and/or flavour. Smoke flavour
is another additive that will produce its own changes.  The addition of
Juniper oil to gin will also improve the final product.

Experimentation is the name of the game.  All this means of course that it
is possible to make a 'better' brandy, whisky, gin etc thyan thev famour
distillers.  Better that is according to personal taste - which matters
most after all.

Young Des.

Connie Zein wrote:
Can someone please tell me what the types of stills are.  I understand there
are two main types ie  Pot Still and Coffey Still?
What are the advantages of each?

The Coffey Still (or Patent Still) is essentially the same as the Pot Still. You
may have seen pictures of Coffey Stills as they are used in the manufacture of
whiskey.  They are essentially a boiler connected to a condenser, and generally
2 passes are required in order to produce a potable product.  If the product is
consumed immediately then you are drinking moonshine which contains large
quantities of fusel oils and other nasties.  These are chemically modified
through storage of the product and aging and give whiskeys, brandies etc their
characteristic flavour.

Refluxing fractionating columns give a much purer product as they effectively
redistill many, many times as the raw material progresses up the column.  If you
want to know how to do it properly, I strongly recommend a visit to John Stone's
web site http://www.gin-vodka.com/main.htm

Good luck,
Mike

Mike/Connie
I had heard the term Coffey still without ever knowing exactly what it
was. It was my understanding that the major difference in  still design
was a pot still or a reflux which is as you say also known as a
fractional still. Do you know how the term Coffey still came about ? is
it named after an inventor ?
I have been in email contact with John Stone in the past and have his
book, his design is one of the better ones out there on the web but I am
not so impressed with his methods of making a wash.
Ray



Connie Zein wrote:
Can someone please tell me what the types of stills are.  I understand
there
are two main types ie  Pot Still and Coffey Still?
What are the advantages of each?

The Coffey Still (or Patent Still) is essentially the same as the Pot
Still. You may have
seen pictures of Coffey Stills as they are used in the manufacture of
whiskey.  They are
essentially a boiler connected to a condenser, and generally 2 passes
are required in order
to produce a potable product.  If the product is consumed immediately
then you are drinking
moonshine which contains large quantities of fusel oils and other
nasties.  These are
chemically modified through storage of the product and aging and give
whiskeys, brandies etc
their characteristic flavour.

Refluxing fractionating columns give a much purer product as they
effectively redistill many,
many times as the raw material progresses up the column.  If you want to
know how to do it
properly, I strongly recommend a visit to John Stone's web site
http://www.gin-vodka.com/main.htm

Good luck,
Mike

--

The Coffey Still (also know as the Patent Still) was invented in 1830 by Mr
Aeneas Coffey, a retired government Excise man in Ireland.  This Patent
Still was itself an improvement on an earlier still design.
Back to the original question: One of the major differences between the Pot
Still and the Coffey Still is that the former is a batch still in that it
produces alcohol in batches, whereas the Coffey Still is a continuous
operation still.

At 13:43 14/09/99 +1200, you wrote:
>From: distillers@onelist.com
>
>Mike/Connie
>I had heard the term Coffey still without ever knowing exactly what it
>was. It was my understanding that the major difference in  still design
>was a pot still or a reflux which is as you say also known as a
>fractional still. Do you know how the term Coffey still came about ? is
>it named after an inventor ?
>I have been in email contact with John Stone in the past and have his
>book, his design is one of the better ones out there on the web but I am
>not so impressed with his methods of making a wash.
>Ray
>
>
>
>Connie Zein wrote:
>Can someone please tell me what the types of stills are.  I understand
>there
>are two main types ie  Pot Still and Coffey Still?
>What are the advantages of each?
>
>The Coffey Still (or Patent Still) is essentially the same as the Pot
>Still. You may have
>seen pictures of Coffey Stills as they are used in the manufacture of
>whiskey.  They are
>essentially a boiler connected to a condenser, and generally 2 passes
>are required in order
>to produce a potable product.  If the product is consumed immediately
>then you are drinking
>moonshine which contains large quantities of fusel oils and other
>nasties.  These are
>chemically modified through storage of the product and aging and give
>whiskeys, brandies etc
>their characteristic flavour.
>
>Refluxing fractionating columns give a much purer product as they
>effectively redistill many,
>many times as the raw material progresses up the column.  If you want to
>know how to do it
>properly, I strongly recommend a visit to John Stone's web site
>http://www.gin-vodka.com/main.htm
>
>Good luck,
>Mike
>
>--
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
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>programs, & features at ONElist by joining our member newsletter at
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>
>
>

Hi Des,
Thanks for the fact that the Coffey still was the first continuous
still.  Absolutely true, and still in use all over the world both
with and without modern innovations.  My point to Connie however was
that it is still (no pun intended) a device that gives a product
rich in fusel oils, and for the purpose it's put to this is desirable
as it eventually leads to flavour.  However, few of us can afford the time
needed to barrel and mature a fine whiskey, and a clean product is what most
require.  As you know, for this you need a reflux column with rather more plates
than the Coffey still provides (this is rapidly getting technical!)

I am impressed with John Stone's approach (and I have his book too)as
it's the first I've seen on the net which deals with the production of a pure
product without the need to resort to activated carbon - this being a sign of
failure in my humble opinion.  However, I share your views to some extent about
his wash technique - but then we are fortunate here in NZ to have easy access
to excellent products such as turbo yeast with all the nutrients in one
package.  Faced with the problem of wild yeasts, his use of massive quantities
of chosen yeast to establish a resistant colony is in the best
traditions/practices of microbiology.  Ask any cheesemaker!  However - stirrers
in an environment alive with activity???

Finally, thank you very much for this group.  I haven't had as much fun
for a long time - once I learn how to write to it properly.  I find it a pain
to end each line with a 'CTRL ENTER' to make my email fit the width of
the page.  Am I missing a technique I should know?

All the best,

Mike

Well, as we now have 33 members I thought it might be an ideal time for
some introductions.  Then it occurred to me that as I am the moderator
maybe I should begin.

Well I am 50 years old and live in Auckland New Zealand.  I import and
manufacture equipment and ingredients for the home distillation industry.
I have a wife and no children.  I employ one part time worker and we are on
the lookout for bigger premises.
I am a collector of alcohol related things like full beer bottles and cans
(about 200) from New Zealand and overseas.  Also full miniature spirit,
liqueur (cordial in the USA), and wine bottles ( over 650).  Then there is
the shooter and shot glass collection of about 50 items.
My interest in alcohol extends more towards the theory side than the
practical, drinking, side.  I enjoy the history and stories (true and
fables) relating to  alcohol.  I am in the process of adding some of these
to my website.  Cocktails is another interest and I conduct classes on the
subject from time to time.
I got this list underway because, while surfing the net, I found there was
not a lot of good down to earth basic information on distilling of alcohol
on a non commercial basis.  The idea of knowledgde being shared by people
with practical experience seemed like good approach, so here we are.


Well what more can I say, that is me.

Des
Manufacture, Wholesale, and Retail of alcohol Distillation equipment and
ingredients.
Homepage: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~topkiwi

Mike
I'm not sure that I agree with your comments re. carbon Distilleries
such as Jack Daniels when they make a special Bourbon think highly
enough of the carbon treatment process to declare it on the label, also
there are two steps to the way a carbon works the first is the removal
of fusels which I agree in a good quality still should be almost
unnecessary, however carbon still has a role to play in polishing the
alcohol, knocking any rough edges off it and improving the mouth feel.
I am not sure why you are having a problem posting to one list. I just
send the message from my mail programme. Are you sending it from the One
list site ?
Ray


> I am impressed with John Stone's approach (and I have his book too)as
> it's the first I've seen on the net which deals with the production of a pure
product without
> the need to resort to activated carbon - this being a sign of failure in my
humble opinion.
> However, I share your views to some extent about his wash technique - but then
we are
> fortunate here in NZ to have easy access
> to excellent products such as turbo yeast with all the nutrients in one
> package.  Faced with the problem of wild yeasts, his use of massive quantities
> of chosen yeast to establish a resistant colony is in the best
traditions/practices of
> microbiology.  Ask any cheesemaker!  However - stirrers in an environment
alive with
> activity???
>
--
Ray Toms Moonshine Supplies, Taupo. New Zealand.
http://moonshine.co.nz
Home Brewing Equipment and Suppliers.
Specialists in all aspects of Home Distillation and Wine/Beer Making.

On Thursday, 16 September 1999 Ray Toms wrote:
Mike
I'm not sure that I agree with your comments re. carbon Distilleries
such as Jack Daniels when they make a special Bourbon think highly
enough of the carbon treatment process to declare it on the label, also
there are two steps to the way a carbon works the first is the removal
of fusels which I agree in a good quality still should be almost
unnecessary, however carbon still has a role to play in polishing the
alcohol, knocking any rough edges off it and improving the mouth feel.
I am not sure why you are having a problem posting to one list. I just
send the message from my mail programme. Are you sending it from the One
list site ?
Ray


Hello Ray,
In respect to my comments about the use of carbon, you have put your finger
on the exact point I was trying to make. Whether using the carbon to remove
the bulk of the fusels, or later to ‘polish’ the resulting liquor by
removing the
higher alcohols that slipped through the first treatment and which give that
nasty ‘bite’, it is an acknowledgement that the still has not been 100%
efficient
in stripping these alcohols out.
What I didn’t say – and I cheerfully admit that I should – I have to use
carbon
myself and am constantly trying new designs that will hopefully relieve me
of
this chore. It seems you’ve gone a long way towards this with your
magnificent
Moonshine Still. Intriguing design!
I find it fascinating that Jack Daniels use carbon as a means of speeding up
the
process of getting their product to the market. Sounds like a smart move.
I can’t figure out why my emails are not automatically wrapping at the end
of each line. First time I’ve encountered such a problem. Probably finger
trouble at my end. I’ve tried sending both from the One list site and from
my
email prog – same result.
All the best,
Mike

mike@...

Well, our founder and moderator Des started it, so as one of the
latest new members it seems fitting that I should follow suit and
introduce myself. I live in the same town as Des, Auckland
New Zealand, and can give him a few years as my next birthday
will be my sixtieth (where did all that time go?).  I am an engineer
(electronics), married and with two grown up children – the daughter
in London, England, and the son in Los Angeles (last time I heard
from the blighter!)
I am an incurable tinkerer and no design or theory is safe with me
around.  Probably goes back to the first watch I ever took apart as
a kid and couldn’t get back together again.  I am interested in cooking,
cosmology (see http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tigger ), website
authoring ( http://www.silverkey.co.nz ) and, of course, distillation.
Being the sort of person I am, my interest in home distillation is
rooted mainly in the design and development side – although I have
been known to enjoy a good gin and tonic.  I have been the route
of beer and wine making, but found that the time between making and
sampling was tiresome – especially as I am not a good wine maker!
I’ve found that playing around with fruit liqueurs is much more
rewarding as it’s difficult to go wrong.  I’m also interested in the
possibilities of producing scents and essences from natural products
  to enhance my efforts in the kitchen.  I share Des’ complaint that
there doesn’t seem to be a lot of information around about home
distilling, but count myself fortunate that I live in an enlightened
country where it’s legal and we have a chance to break new ground
without fear of midnight raids by the Excise Man.  It’s been noted
before by others, and I share their views on the absurdity of it all, that
in most countries of the world you are permitted to produce home
beers and wines full of fusel oils and other poisons, but you are
not permitted to remove those poisons by distillation.  This encourages
production of spirits by freezing (legal in most places) that are positively
dangerous in that they concentrate the poisons as well as the ethyl alcohol.
You may gather from that little ‘tirade’ that I have a low opinion of
politicians
– or any other group of officials that seem to think with what they sit on.

Mike Nixon

I have tried to produce tequila using Agave nectare that I purhased from my
local
Homebrew supply in 3 pound jars. I fermented it out and distilled on a reflux
still. I
ended up with a barely perceptable smell and taste of tequila. Do I need a Pot
Still to
make a better tequila. Also Agave nectar can be purchased in larger quantities
through Health food stores selling it as a healthy sweetner.
I use the same filter system that I use for my winemaking. I purchase
inexpensive carbon
filter and a home water filtration system with excellent results. I add
distilled water
and when I add it to the distillate  the distillate becomes cloudy.although it
is clear after
filtering, what causes it?

Hello and welcome to the Distillers List.
For my 2 cents worth on the subject I have found that it is quite difficult
to obtain a true flavour in in completely natural ingredients without the
asstance of some artificial flavour.  While this may not be truer with
stronger flavours like aniseed etc, in my experience it is true of weaker
flavours.  To obtain the increased flavour and smell I would add some
tequila essence.
Although this may not seem right to the purists I can assure them, that
unbeknown to most of us, it is done by commercial companies to improve
their product.
As for the second question, I will let others comment on the filtering
system you are using but the cloudiness can be explained.  In the case of
some alcoholic beverages the addition of water (distilled or not) will
cause a cloudiness to develop.  Well know examples are Ouzo, Sambuca etc.
The reason being that these drinks contain chemicals which will dissolve in
alcohol but not in water.  As the ratio of water/alcohol changes in favour
of the water these components come out of solution and appear as
cloudiness.  The addition of more alcohol will restore the balance.
In your case the problem may be due to the carbon treatment you use not
doing the job properly, but I will leave that to others to comment.

Hope this helps.

Young Des

At 02:35 PM 17/09/99 -0000, you wrote:
>From: greglong3@...
>
>I have tried to produce tequila using Agave nectare that I purhased from
my local
>Homebrew supply in 3 pound jars. I fermented it out and distilled on a
reflux still. I
>ended up with a barely perceptable smell and taste of tequila. Do I need a
Pot Still to
>make a better tequila. Also Agave nectar can be purchased in larger
quantities
>through Health food stores selling it as a healthy sweetner.
>I use the same filter system that I use for my winemaking. I purchase
inexpensive carbon
>filter and a home water filtration system with excellent results. I add
distilled water
>and when I add it to the distillate  the distillate becomes
cloudy.although it is clear after
>filtering, what causes it?
>

Code Imports - New Zealand
Manufacture, Wholesale, and Retail of alcohol Distillation equipment and
ingredients.
Homepage: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~topkiwi

>   Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:47:09 +1200
>   From: "Mike" <mike@...>
>Subject: Coffey still - activated carbon
>
>Hello Ray,
>In respect to my comments about the use of carbon, you have put your finger
>on the exact point I was trying to make. Whether using the carbon to remove
>the bulk of the fusels, or later to ‘polish’ the resulting liquor by
>removing the
>higher alcohols that slipped through the first treatment and which give that
>nasty ‘bite’, it is an acknowledgement that the still has not been 100%
>efficient
>in stripping these alcohols out.
>What I didn’t say ­ and I cheerfully admit that I should ­ I have to use
>carbon
>myself and am constantly trying new designs that will hopefully relieve me
>of
>this chore. It seems you’ve gone a long way towards this with your
>magnificent
>Moonshine Still. Intriguing design!
>I find it fascinating that Jack Daniels use carbon as a means of speeding up
>the
>process of getting their product to the market. Sounds like a smart move.
>All the best,
>Mike
>
>mike@...

The subject of Jack Daniels and their carbon treatment is actually an
interesting story.
In regards to using polishing carbon, Jack Daniels is very proud of their
product; in no way are they 'apologizing' by listing the process on the
bottle. Quite the opposite!  I visited their (one and only) distillery in
Lynchburg, Tennessee this summer and believe me, their charcoal process is
the key to Jack Daniels. JD is sold as a "Tennessee Whiskey", not a
bourbon, kentucky, etc - and the distinction is that of the carbon process.
They lobbied the US govt to give them that special distinction, in part
because no other (in the US anyway) major whiskey manufacturer uses the
carbon process.
Their new product is "gentleman jack" which is double filtered and possibly
aged longer. believe me, it's smooooth!


Allow me to introduce myself:
My name is Robert Jung, I'm a history major at the University of Texas,
here in Austin, TX. I've been homebrewing for about a 2 years, and have
only recently become interested in still design. OF COURSE, since i'm
stateside, it's only theoretical work. regardless, I've enjoyed the
discussion thus far.
feel free to look at my web page, under heavy, heavy construction at
http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~robjung
no still stuff up yet, but soon...!  Thanks, guys!

As I understand it to acheive maximum flavour transfer you need a pot
still rather than a reflux. A reflux will give you by far the cleanest
alcohol but removes most of the flavour in the process. Unfortunately
when you use a pot still not only do you retain the flavour but you
retain many of the impurities as well. Specialist distilling grades of
carbon do a complete job on the alcohol but water filtration carbon
won't, you are probably getting away with it because of the reflux still
but I wouldn't recomend it in a pot still.
Ray

> From: greglong3@...
>
> I have tried to produce tequila using Agave nectare that I purhased from my
local
> Homebrew supply in 3 pound jars. I fermented it out and distilled on a reflux
still. I
> ended up with a barely perceptable smell and taste of tequila. Do I need a Pot
Still to
> make a better tequila. Also Agave nectar can be purchased in larger quantities
> through Health food stores selling it as a healthy sweetner.
> I use the same filter system that I use for my winemaking. I purchase
inexpensive carbon
> filter and a home water filtration system with excellent results. I add
distilled water
> and when I add it to the distillate  the distillate becomes cloudy.although it
is clear after
> filtering, what causes it?
>
--
Ray Toms Moonshine Supplies, Taupo. New Zealand.
http://moonshine.co.nz
Home Brewing Equipment and Suppliers.
Specialists in all aspects of Home Distillation and Wine/Beer Making.

Well, it’s been rather quiet on the postings front
in the last week or two, so I thought I might throw
a couple of ideas into the pot to see what comes out.

I had the pleasure of actually meeting Des (TopKiwi)
last week. We live in the same city – Auckland – so
it was perhaps not so strange. Two hours after first
meeting we realised that we both had homes to go
to – we could have gone on chatting for hours.

Anyway, one of the things that came up in conversation
was the problem that most in this group are severely
restricted on the practical front. It just ain’t legal to
distill booze in most countries. Never mind the niceties
of whether it should be legal or not, we discussed what
could be done to make life more interesting for this
majority of group members? Now laws about distilling
may vary from country to country, and I wouldn’t have
a clue how they vary in detail, However, most seem to
have the common theme that it is distillation of ethanol
for consumption that is the naughty bit.

All the members of this group have a common interest in
distilling, but heaven forbid that any of us want to do this
outside the law. What Des and I wondered is whether any
members of the group would be interested in distillation of
botanicals for their flavour, scent, or whatever? If you
choose to mix the results with home distilled vodka in
those places where such production is legal, or with
vodka you buy over the counter in other places, then
either way your halo should remain firmly attached.

Personally, my interest in this extends beyond liqueurs
and schnapps as I love cooking. It would be nice to be
able to experiment with different herbs etc to produce
unique essences for flavouring. Others might be interested
in the perfume side. This is something I have never tried
myself, so I would be keen to hear from anyone who has
some experience in procedures, ingredients, etc. Does
anyone else out there share my interest in this facet of
distillation? If so, I would be great to hear from you.

Mike

Mike
Yes I have been interested in this topic as well however as yet havn't
had the time to experiment very far. One thing I did do that I would be
happy to share was to make a Eucalyptus oil, what I did was collect
heaps and heaps of Eucalyptus leaves you need an enormous amount of dry
matter to get a very small amount of oil and I believe this is fairly
typical, I added water to the leaves and boiled them up and collected
the resulting oil/water mixture. I had two problems firstly in trying to
extract maximum oil I managed to burn the leaves on the bottom of the
pot and the ellement, it took hours of cleaning to remove the resulting
black mess. The second problem is seperating the oil from the water in
the end I simply scooped the oil off the top which results in a lot of
wasteage. It's not rocket science but if you wanted to do it seriously I
think I would be suspending a basket inside the pot to avoid the burning
problem and I believe that old hand cream seperators are ideal for
removing water. Also I had no idea what variety of Eucalyptus I was
using, there are varieties which are specified as producing the best
oil. One other thing you need a pot still, a reflux still will return
the oils to the pot instead of taking them through the condenser. I want
to do some experimenting to make a Bombay Saphire Gin, we have tracked
down the ingredients with the help of one of my customers and I intend
to soak the botanicals in 80% alcohol from my reflux still and then
redistill through a pot still which is a more practical refinement of
the way it is done commercially which is to suspend the botanicals over
high strength alcohol and steam the alcohol through them.
Ray

Mike wrote:

> Well, it’s been rather quiet on the postings front
> in the last week or two, so I thought I might throw
> a couple of ideas into the pot to see what comes out.
>
> I had the pleasure of actually meeting Des (TopKiwi)
> last week. We live in the same city – Auckland – so
> it was perhaps not so strange. Two hours after first
> meeting we realised that we both had homes to go
> to – we could have gone on chatting for hours.
>
> Anyway, one of the things that came up in conversation
> was the problem that most in this group are severely
> restricted on the practical front. It just ain’t legal to
> distill booze in most countries. Never mind the niceties
> of whether it should be legal or not, we discussed what
> could be done to make life more interesting for this
> majority of group members? Now laws about distilling
> may vary from country to country, and I wouldn’t have
> a clue how they vary in detail, However, most seem to
> have the common theme that it is distillation of ethanol
> for consumption that is the naughty bit.
>
> All the members of this group have a common interest in
> distilling, but heaven forbid that any of us want to do this
> outside the law. What Des and I wondered is whether any
> members of the group would be interested in distillation of
> botanicals for their flavour, scent, or whatever? If you
> choose to mix the results with home distilled vodka in
> those places where such production is legal, or with
> vodka you buy over the counter in other places, then
> either way your halo should remain firmly attached.
>
> Personally, my interest in this extends beyond liqueurs
> and schnapps as I love cooking. It would be nice to be
> able to experiment with different herbs etc to produce
> unique essences for flavouring. Others might be interested
> in the perfume side. This is something I have never tried
> myself, so I would be keen to hear from anyone who has
> some experience in procedures, ingredients, etc. Does
> anyone else out there share my interest in this facet of
> distillation? If so, I would be great to hear from you.
>
> Mike

--
Ray Toms Moonshine Supplies, Taupo. New Zealand.
http://moonshine.co.nz
Home Brewing Equipment and Suppliers.
Specialists in all aspects of Home Distillation and Wine/Beer Making.

Dear Ray,

Thank you very much for your reply to my query about
distilling botanicals. I was amused by your description
of the state your pot and element ended up in and will take
every precaution to avoid this trap. The problem of
separating the resulting oils from the water is an interesting
one to think about. Would the oils have a higher BP than
water I wonder, or lower. I imagine that the scent elements
would have a fairly low vapour pressure or they wouldn’t be
much use as scents. Would a second distillation in a pot still
do the trick? I’ll be interested to hear what success you have
with the soaking in alcohol method. I have found that soaking
orange zest etc in ordinary vodka makes a passable basis for a
cointreau type liqueur, so using stronger higher strength
alcohol should produce good results. I’d love to know the
ingredients for Bombay Sapphire Gin – but know that
something like that will be a closely guarded family secret!

Mike

When it comes to extracting oils etc from botanicals it seems that the
quantity extracted has no resemblence to the amount of raw material.  I
appreciate the want (and sometimes need) to have natural products as being
one reason, also the other being the need to indulge in the distilling
'hobby' to its next step.
I understand that the best type of still for this purpose is a pot still,
would appreciate other advise on this though.  I suspect that a reflux
still may be too efficient (?) for this task.


With flavouring essences it is necessary to add artificial ingredients to
improve the intensity of the flavour.

Also, how does the flavour of Bombay Sapphire differ from say London Dry?
It is something I have considered working on for a while now.

Regards

Des
topkiwi
Code Imports
Manufacture, Wholesale, and Retail of alcohol Distillation equipment and
ingredients.
Homepage: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~topkiwi
Distillers discussion list at: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Distillers

Mike
Sorry for the delay in reply, I was up in your neck of the woods for the
weekend at the Christmas Gift Fair. I believe that the boiling point of
the oils is about the same as water as many of them seem to be carried
over when the water is carried over. There is no copywrite on the Bombay
Saphire although bear it in mind that this is still an experimental
recipe:
The ingredients listed on the bottle are:
Juniper Berries
Corriander Seeds
Cassia Bark aka Chinese Cinamon
Cubeb Berries aka Tailed Pepper
Grains of Paradise aka Paprika
Almonds
Lemon Peel
Liquorice root
Orris root
Angelica root
Any good brew shop should have Juniper Berries and Corriander seeds
available (unfortunately many don't so you may have to use a herb/spice
shop). Cassia Bark, and Grains of Paradise need to be sourced via an
Oriental Grocer. Cubeb Berries had us stumped for a while but aparently
is available via  http://www.worldspice.com  I haven't checked the site
out yet though. Liquorice root, Orris root and Angelica root are
available from a Herbalist/health food shop. The recipe that has been
experimented with by my customer is:
in 5 lt of 50% alcohol that has been carbon treated put the following,
40 juniper berries crushed
30 Corriander seeds crushed
10 drops of Juniper oil (one of Des's fine products called Gin enhancer)

2 Tablespoons Almonds (ground)
1/2 Tablespoon Liquorice root
1/2 Teaspoon Paprika
1/2 Teaspoon Orris root
2 sticks Cassia bark (broken up)
1/2 the peel of one lemon (no pith)
Remove the lemon after one week and leave the remainder of ingredients
for a further 5 weeks. Strain through coffee filter. Distil in a pot
still with 10 lt of water added. Don't treat futher with carbon, water
down to 40% and drink.
The amount of each ingredients was a complete guess so I would imagine
with experimentation those quantities could change. If anyone cares to
have a go at the recipe I would be very interested in seeing some
results posted to this list.
Ray


Mike wrote:

> Dear Ray,
>
> Thank you very much for your reply to my query about
> distilling botanicals. I was amused by your description
> of the state your pot and element ended up in and will take
> every precaution to avoid this trap. The problem of
> separating the resulting oils from the water is an interesting
> one to think about. Would the oils have a higher BP than
> water I wonder, or lower. I imagine that the scent elements
> would have a fairly low vapour pressure or they wouldn’t be
> much use as scents. Would a second distillation in a pot still
> do the trick? I’ll be interested to hear what success you have
> with the soaking in alcohol method. I have found that soaking
> orange zest etc in ordinary vodka makes a passable basis for a
> cointreau type liqueur, so using stronger higher strength
> alcohol should produce good results. I’d love to know the
> ingredients for Bombay Sapphire Gin – but know that
> something like that will be a closely guarded family secret!
>
> Mike

--
Ray Toms Moonshine Supplies, Taupo. New Zealand.
http://moonshine.co.nz
Home Brewing Equipment and Suppliers.
Specialists in all aspects of Home Distillation and Wine/Beer Making.

ooops! That darn <enter> key. I meant to ask for help
in the distillation of slivovitz Who would like to share
his/hers experience in this subject. What to start with
(add sugar to the must; pit the prunes or not) what to use
(pot-still or Ray's excellent Moonshine reflux-still);
how many times and hwen to stop. Could one make a acceptable
liqueur from prunes or not.
Any help would be appreciated.
Ed

Hi Ed
Glad to have you aboard !!
I thought that slivovitz was made from fresh plums rather than prunes
however either should do. I was hoping that  someone would respond that
may
had more information than I have but as they haven't I will tell you
what I
know. You would need to make a wine base, it has been my experience that
by
concentrating the fruit in the wine base you are more likely to get some

fruit carry over in the flavour, for example if the wine recipe calls
for 3
kg of fruit per 4.5 lt I would try 6 kg. I was under the impression that
a
pot still was essential for flavour carry over, however I was talking to

someone in Sydney in the past couple of weeks who said they had made an
applejack succesfuly using the moonshine still so now I am confused. The

problem with using a pot still is that you also carry over a large
number of
impurities. I would imagine that a very acceptable liquer would be to
soak
the prunes in alcohol and then filter the alcohol out again, in fact I
am
inspired enough to actually try that I have some prunes that we have
been
experimenting with along with raisins and sultanas to beef up brandy. I
will
report back on how I get on.
Cheers
Ray


desik@... wrote:

> From: desik@...
>
> ooops! That darn <enter> key. I meant to ask for help
> in the distillation of slivovitz Who would like to share
> his/hers experience in this subject. What to start with
> (add sugar to the must; pit the prunes or not) what to use
> (pot-still or Ray's excellent Moonshine reflux-still);
> how many times and hwen to stop. Could one make a acceptable
> liqueur from prunes or not.
> Any help would be appreciated.
> Ed

--
Ray Toms Moonshine Supplies, Taupo. New Zealand.
http://moonshine.co.nz
Home Brewing Equipment and Suppliers.
Specialists in all aspects of Home Distillation and Wine/Beer Making.

as a new member i wish to introduce myself my name is brian poke i live in
tasmania now and have been a professional full time distiller for 37 years
currently in charge of a 4000lal/wk single malt pot still whisky distillery
which is very new,stills aggregate 100,000 litres,all can be run from my
home,love the vibrant feel of this club,many regards to all----B

Hi, this is Ray Rust from Washington state in the USA.
I have tryed using grape concentrates, and also others, with very good
results,( this is for 5 gallons )I use 6 - 12 oz can's of your choice of
concentrates , 1 tsp per gallon of yeast nutrient, 2 pounds of sugar per gallon,
and 2 packages of wine east. let it set with a water lock for 10 to 14 days, or
tell it settles down, and rack off into another container, let settle for a
couple of days, and rack off again into your still.
and by the way your metric system is about to drive my up a wall. Question? How
much does 10 mls flavor in our system, is it about a quart. lol
give this recipe a try if you havent all ready. Thank you Ray


****  A note from topkiwi (Des)
Each 10ml of essence flavours 1125ml (a large bottle) of spirit like whisky etc.
My book tells me that 900ml is a quart.  Others will probably be more helpful
though.  -  Des

Thank you Des, I found it finaly. I do like this site
and the people are very helpful. Does any one have a
recipe for peaches. or is there a easy way to flavor
by using peaches or apricots. Thank you Ray

Hi Des, this is Ray Rust from Washington state. In Washington
you can make 20 gallons of spirits per family member per year,
beer and wine 150 per year. And in Wyoming where Im from you
can make 100 gallons a year and more if you want and if you
make fuel, you cant get credit on your taxes for doing that.
and In Colorado they realy dont care how much you make. I should
interduce myself sorry for havent done so, Im a logger, I
fall timber for the past 25 years, and was a cowboy befor that
and Im 51, and I started making brandy's and whisky when I was
17. An Old chef schooled me on the methods he employed on making
this fine drinking stuff, I found his notes he gave me years ago,
which I thought I lost. because I thought I would get back making
spirits again, I havent made any in atleast 20 years more or less.
I will give a recipe from my notes from time to time if that would
be ok. and I know they all work fine because they have been
tryed and tested. And the Legality from state to state here
is realy funny. all political I do believe. Thank you Ray


++ Note from Des (topkiwi)
Firstly, sorry for not getting this message away sooner (pressure of work).
Secondly, yes we would be interested in the recipes you have, please share them.

Thank you,

Des.

thankyou to everyone who sent questions
etc. etc. to my email address most welcome
particularly os from queensland---but could
i be so bold as to suggest that if we put our questions
thru this site then everyone will see Q and answer
and yes to the people that were puzzled by our
legal status the answer is yes-----takes all the fun
out though------to clarify 4000lal/wk is a production potential
of 4000 litres of ethanol,single malt pot still whisky in our case,at 100%
this is merely a method of rating production levels
as quite clearly none of the actual spirit is at 100%alc.vol
regards to all-----brian poke---------this posting is to
clarify the posting by this author digest 18 listed 18 october

Firstly, welcome to the new members of the Distillers@onelist.  I hope you
find a lot of good and helpful information on the subject of distilling.

Secondly, I appologise for not keeping the flow of emails as up to date as
it should be.  I have been ill and the pressure of work has not helped.
Sorry I will try to ensure it does not happen again.

Although the list has a focus on alcohol distillation, please feel free to
include distillation of essential oils or other products in your emails.
The object is that we can all learn more by exchange of ideas, information,
and experiences.  The list thrives on discussion and will only succeed with
imput from as many members as possible.
Most members I would think are looking for information and guidance so
please dont be shy and we can all learn.

Oh, by the way, we now have 61 members - great work to all.

Regards

Young Des (topkiwi).

who keeps this message board going under trying circumstances
a job certainly well done ,to ray why not just simply macerate then infuse
donn't make it too hard,i have a problem ,requuire a simple methodology
to arrive at extract efficiency of wort transfer when using an all grain mash
-----anybody with a good simple formula????????????????????   ---brian    
bj-fm@...