--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...> wrote:
>
> All the aniseed based distillates originated in the Mediterranean
> Basin and used local aniseed.




All the European ones perhaps, but the Columbians in South America
have had one since the mid 1600's.  Possibly one of the oldest White
Rums, Aguardiente is made from sugar cane molasses and aniseed.
http://home.earthlink.net/~cafe.tinto/aguardiente.htm

Perhaps the anise idea was added through contact with Spanish
colonists, it's not known for certain.  But the natives of the area
certainly had distilled liquor before colonization.  Archeologists
have unearthed crude bottles in digs from well before the time of the
Conquistadors.  Much of South America's early history is still a
mystery.


Slainte!
regards Harry

Hi to everybody and wishes of a good new year.
In this period, in Italy, you/they are publicizing her/it "sambuca
Averna" where you/he/she is done present that the product and' done
exclusively using the starry anise to 100%, Ciao a tutti.

http://www.google.it/search?
hl=it&q=ANICE+ANICE+STELLATO+SAMBUCA+AVERNA&btnG=Cerca&meta=lr%
3Dlang_it


--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
wrote:
>
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...> wrote:
> >
> > All the aniseed based distillates originated in the Mediterranean
> > Basin and used local aniseed.
>
>
>
>
> All the European ones perhaps, but the Columbians in South America
> have had one since the mid 1600's.  Possibly one of the oldest
White
> Rums, Aguardiente is made from sugar cane molasses and aniseed.
> http://home.earthlink.net/~cafe.tinto/aguardiente.htm
>
> Perhaps the anise idea was added through contact with Spanish
> colonists, it's not known for certain.  But the natives of the
area
> certainly had distilled liquor before colonization.  Archeologists
> have unearthed crude bottles in digs from well before the time of
the
> Conquistadors.  Much of South America's early history is still a
> mystery.
>
>
> Slainte!
> regards Harry
>

I filled the pipe with table salt, then you can give any shape to it
without kinks,
and about bad smells and flavours, adding even a short 30cm(12inch)
column will give you pure stuff.
using bigger element with a simple manual voltage controling will
be good.
spiral still is not so good itself,if you want pure stuff you should
build spiral with column and heat controler (riku's design, there is
a pdf about it but i don't remember where to download)
for me spiral with column works greater than
my reflux still.



--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, DetCord <detcord@h...> wrote:
>
> rolls of tubing is already "soft" unlike straight tubing which is
> considered "hard pipe".
> If you purchased your tubing in rolled form (50' rolls) it has already
> been annealed and re-heating serves little purpose without asbestos
> gloves on to work it at an elevated temp.
>
> If you have mandrel type hand benders, I much prefer using "hard pipe"
>
>
> Andrew Bugal wrote:
> > Okay, I give up.
> >
> >   I made mistakes with my still and had to sort them out myself
before I came across this site.
> >
> >   Just trying to help.
> >
> >   Jonny may find it easier to bend the tubing if he heats it with
a gas torch.  Of course annealed copper is easier to bend.
> >
> >   Regards,
> >   Andy
> >
> >
>

Bolivian (& Columbian) anisado is Spanish influenced. Possibly the
base spirit is sugarcane based unlike the grape based Spanish original.
Although Central and South American indigenes had fermented alcoholic
beverages there is no proof that they distilled prior to European
colonisation.
Aguardiente is Spanish for the Latin 'aqua ardente' (burning water).
It is a generic term.
wal

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...> wrote:
> >
> > All the aniseed based distillates originated in the Mediterranean
> > Basin and used local aniseed.
>
>
>
>
> All the European ones perhaps, but the Columbians in South America
> have had one since the mid 1600's.  Possibly one of the oldest White
> Rums, Aguardiente is made from sugar cane molasses and aniseed.
> http://home.earthlink.net/~cafe.tinto/aguardiente.htm
>
> Perhaps the anise idea was added through contact with Spanish
> colonists, it's not known for certain.  But the natives of the area
> certainly had distilled liquor before colonization.  Archeologists
> have unearthed crude bottles in digs from well before the time of the
> Conquistadors.  Much of South America's early history is still a
> mystery.
>
>
> Slainte!
> regards Harry
>

See -
http://www.distill.com/specs/Ecuador11.html

wal

Available in here
http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/Listings2.htm#Books%20Listings

I rather assumed the person asking the original question had allready
read the booklet.

- Riku

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "nameless" <hgm688@y...> wrote:
>
>
> I filled the pipe with table salt, then you can give any shape to it
> without kinks,
> and about bad smells and flavours, adding even a short 30cm(12inch)
> column will give you pure stuff.
> using bigger element with a simple manual voltage controling will
> be good.
> spiral still is not so good itself,if you want pure stuff you should
> build spiral with column and heat controler (riku's design, there is
> a pdf about it but i don't remember where to download)
> for me spiral with column works greater than
> my reflux still.
>
>
>
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, DetCord <detcord@h...> wrote:
> >
> > rolls of tubing is already "soft" unlike straight tubing which is
> > considered "hard pipe".
> > If you purchased your tubing in rolled form (50' rolls) it has
already
> > been annealed and re-heating serves little purpose without
asbestos
> > gloves on to work it at an elevated temp.
> >
> > If you have mandrel type hand benders, I much prefer using "hard
pipe"
> >
> >
> > Andrew Bugal wrote:
> > > Okay, I give up.
> > >
> > >   I made mistakes with my still and had to sort them out myself
> before I came across this site.
> > >
> > >   Just trying to help.
> > >
> > >   Jonny may find it easier to bend the tubing if he heats it
with
> a gas torch.  Of course annealed copper is easier to bend.
> > >
> > >   Regards,
> > >   Andy
> > >
> > >
> >
>

I don't quite understand the smartassed retort when I was just agreeing
with what you originally wrote???!!!
I don't need an elementary physics refresher course.


_{*L*}_ wrote:
> I must reply to your post just to ruin your illusions, sorry, no pun
intended...
>  Pardon my bluntness, but you are mixing "PRESSURE" and "FORCE."
>  "FORCE" is equal "PRESSURE" multiplied by the "AREA."
>
>  For example some people know about "solar wind." To reiterate, it is PRESSURE
of solar particles as they fly outward Sol and hit everything around Earth and
throughout space - literally even you as you take a sunny beach break.
>
>  Now, this PRESSURE will move huge space ships only on one conditions they
will have even more huuuge sails as AREA. Total resultant of these components
multiplied will be the FORCE. That is why ships with solar sails will need the
sail to be the size of Australia.
>
>  If you want to see the action of hydrostatic water pressure of five inches,
why don't you make a cone out of waxed paper of about eight inches high and pour
there some water.  Now I can say too - hehehe...
>
> DetCord <detcord@...> wrote:     5" Water Column isn't much
pressure at all on such a small vessel.  You could build that much pressure with
your mouth on a straw.
>
>  Now 5" WC on a large piece of square duct does tend to make it round....hehe.
Surface area is a biznatch.
>
>  _{*L*}_ wrote:
>  > I must comment on "slanted plates" design because I could not hold back...
>  >
>  >   The pressure build up will be equivalent to the sum of all overlapping
plates where liquid is contained.
>  >
>  >   Explanation --
>  >
>  >   each "stage" will have a quarter inch pool of condensed alcohol between
overlapping plates. If you have twenty "stages" or "plates" the hydrostatic
pressure will be equal: 0.25"x20=5" of liquid pressure.
>  >
>  >   This is three times less than a regular ten-gallon fish tank pressure
acting on side glass. It is very insignificant and often misunderstood.
>  >
>  >   I hope it solves the "pressure build-up" issue.
>  > ==================================================

The dialog and examples were interesting.  It's all right to agree and even
expound.

P.

Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Anyone know where I can find the diagram for
"2 cups still" by Alex?

I don't need an elementary physics refresher course.


>  >   I hope it solves the "pressure build-up" issue.

Letting off a little pressure can be a good thing too.

Have a safe and low-pressure New Year.

Hello all, i was wondering what the calculation is to see excatly what
percent alcohol my still will collect from the wash. Recently i
collected 68% heads that i discarded (methanol) and the next was 62%,
then 55%, then 50% then 40%, then 35%. i sepeated my distalate in this
fashion, first 250ml discard, then in 750ml fractions. My wash was
10.5%. Its a reflux still that can be used as a pot still as well. A
29L pony keg with a 12"x 1" copper reflux colum that i packed with
copper scrubbers. my condenser angles down at a 45 degree . it is 22"
a 1/2" pipe with a 1" water jacket. i have it configured so i can
unscrew my reflux colum and just use the condenser on the keg for a
pot still. according to the homedistiller.org site, my 10.5% wash
should have collected a 56.4% vapour and i collected a higher level
than that. I probly have given way to much info, but i figured the
more the better. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I plan on
running some 14.7% potato vodka wash through it tomorrow.
thanks- huckelberry

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "porscheguy902"
<porscheguy902@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello all, i was wondering what the calculation is to see excatly
what
> percent alcohol my still will collect from the wash. Recently i
> collected 68% heads that i discarded (methanol) and the next was
62%,
> then 55%, then 50% then 40%, then 35%. i sepeated my distalate in
this
> fashion, first 250ml discard, then in 750ml fractions. My wash was
> 10.5%. Its a reflux still that can be used as a pot still as well.
A
> 29L pony keg with a 12"x 1" copper reflux colum that i packed with
> copper scrubbers. my condenser angles down at a 45 degree . it is
22"
> a 1/2" pipe with a 1" water jacket. i have it configured so i can
> unscrew my reflux colum and just use the condenser on the keg for a
> pot still. according to the homedistiller.org site, my 10.5% wash
> should have collected a 56.4% vapour and i collected a higher level
> than that. I probly have given way to much info, but i figured the
> more the better. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I plan on
> running some 14.7% potato vodka wash through it tomorrow.
> thanks- huckelberry
>



Ok, we need to clear up a couple of things.

1)  'Reflux' is evaporated and recondensed liquid that returns back
down the column.  Think of water condensation from the warm air in
your house running down a cold window pane.   You get the idea?
That's reflux.

2)  A true reflux still has a mechanism for controlling the amount
of reflux returned to the column for reboiling.  This is usually via
overhead condenser, dam/weir and valve control.

3)  You do not have a reflux still as such.  You have a potstill
with a small packed column that will produce 'some' uncontrolled
reflux via the copper packing and losing heat to the atmosphere.

Almost all potstills with columns/towers/swan-necks produce 'some'
reflux.  Some of the larger commercial ones 'try' to control the
reflux via external water jackets (not very successfully, I might
add).



Now that we've got that sorted out, let's look at your design.

A 1" x 12" 'column' on a 29 litre boiler is virtually useless.  It
would be more suited to a pot of ~5 litres capacity, IOW SMALL runs,
to suit the small column.

Look at the volume of the column.
Vol = Pi x Radius squared x Height
In your case, Vol = 3.1416 x 0.25" x 12" gives 9.4 cubic inches.

This volume will do almost no separation nor reflux, and will run
strictly as a standard potstill.  You would only get refluxing if
the power input is somewhere below about 600 watts.  That would make
for a very slow distillation of a 20 litre wash (read days).
Running at higher power will give you exactly the results you are
now getting, in terms of abv% and volume collected from the wash.

So, how to improve on that?
1)  Double the column diameter:  This alone will give you a column
volume thus:
3.1416 x 1" x 12" gives 37 cubic inches.
That is FOUR (4) times your existing column volume (not double as
you would at first think).

Just by doing this, you will allow for either higher wattage input,
or slower vapour speed, or a combination of both (desirable).  In
any case it will be a vast improvement on your current setup and the
quality of your potstill product.

2)  Double diameter + double height column i.e 2" x 24".
Vol = 3.1416 x 1" x 24" gives 75 cubic inches.

This size of column is much more suited to your potstill with a 29
litre boiler.  Also, it's a good starting point for a true reflux
still.  all you need do is put an overhead condenser, dam & takeoff
valve on top.  You could make this removable and interchangeable
with your existing Liebig condenser.  Then you've really got the
best of both worlds, a true Reflux still for vodka-type pure spirits
(95.6%) and a true potstill (~80%) for flavoured spirits.

Don't worry about the small coupling to the pony keg.  Just fit a 2"
to 1" reducer.  It won't affect the vapour getting into the larger
column.


HTH

Slainte!
regards Harry
Moderator

I've come across some info that is food for thought.

" Malt whisky contains quite a lot of copper for a liquid.
According to literature the average is 477 µg/l. This does not sound
like very much.  You would need almost 7000 bottles of whisky to get
the equilvalent of one euro-cent worth of copper!

Copper is relatively harmless for humans, but it is extremely toxic
for micro-organisms.  It kills Algae, fungi and bacteria.  The
poisonous effect starts at copper-concentrations of 10 µg/l. "

Now this could explain a peculiar phenomenon in my household.
During the annual rounds of colds/flu/viral infections, all around
me the kids, wife, friends etc. are dropping like flies!  I remain
virtually unscathed (except for a recent nasty bug from overseas).
Could this be due to my penchant for malt whisky?  I'd certainly
like to think so.  Any excuse for a wee dram.  ;-)

Now if I can just convince my liver not to explode, I should live
forever!  I hope so, there's lots of Malts I haven't tried yet. :))

Perhaps this fellow said it best...

"If a person could just find out the exact proportion and quantity
that ought to be drunk every day and keep to that, I verily believe
that he might live forever, without dying at all, and that doctors
and churchyards would go out of fashion".  - James Hogg (The Ettrick
Shepherd; 1820s).


Comments?


Slainte!
regards Harry

You see this?  This here is what confuses the  hell out of me.  Some people tell
me I need to control the boiler  temp and this guy says let it boil and control
the column temp.   Seriously... WTF?

   In his defense I guess each still has it's own personality and that  must be
learned through trial and error.  Anyway, as soon as my  voltage control comes
in I'm going to be able to control almost  everything from the boiler temp to
the percentage of alcohol in my  urine.  No more excuses for the burnt yeast
taste.



_{*L*}_ <bokakob@...> wrote:        Nicolas -- please do not watch the
temperature in the boiler. Do an  experiment -- let it boil as much as it wants,
BUT close a valve so you  have only 1~2 drops per minute coming out. Also, fully
*open* the  return valve -- it is not needed and only confuses newcomers.

   nicolasgoettel <nicolasgoettel@...> wrote:  Hi guys

   I just built a beautifull coper valved reflux still and I am running it fo the
first time. Here is
   my question: Knowing ethanol boils @ 78deg. C at what temperture should I heat
my 10
   liters of fermented mash?  The problem is I need to heat it quite hot because
the column is
   not very hot (50deg.) and not much is comming out. I dont want to heat the
mash to much
   because the water in it will boil to.

   Thanks in advance

   Nicolas







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Whoever told you to control your boiler/wash temp does not know
anything about simple physics so DON'T listen to them. No one on this
planet has ever managed to change the boiling point of any given
liquid (given pressure stability). If you can do it, I look forward to
seeing your Nobel prize nomination.

Just think about a pot of water on the stove. What temp does it boil
at? 100 deg C. If the water drops below 100, what happens? Yes, it
doesn't boil. What happens if you crank the heat up really high? No,
the water temp does not go above 100 as this is the BP of water and we
can't change that. What does happen is that you get much more vapour
from the pot. This is exactly what we get in our stills except that
the BP is lower than 100 as we have alcohol mixed with the water which
lowers the BP of the mixture to somewhere between the BP of the
alcohol and water. As the proportion of alcohol falls in our wash as
the run progresses, the BP rises towards the water BP.

All this explains why the idea of slowly heating up the wash to boil
off the various alcohols, keeping it below 100 so the water won't come
through, is just so much rubbish. Once again, I refer to
www.homedistiller.org and the Theory section.

Just boil the wash relatively slowly and let physics do its thing.

Cheers,
Lindsay.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Sam Thomas <bob_the_borg@y...> wrote:
>
> You see this?  This here is what confuses the  hell out of me.  Some
people tell me I need to control the boiler  temp and this guy says
let it boil and control the column temp.   Seriously... WTF?
>
>   In his defense I guess each still has it's own personality and
that  must be learned through trial and error.  Anyway, as soon as my
  voltage control comes in I'm going to be able to control almost
everything from the boiler temp to the percentage of alcohol in my
urine.  No more excuses for the burnt yeast taste.
>
>
>
> _{*L*}_ <bokakob@y...> wrote:        Nicolas -- please do not watch
the temperature in the boiler. Do an  experiment -- let it boil as
much as it wants, BUT close a valve so you  have only 1~2 drops per
minute coming out. Also, fully *open* the  return valve -- it is not
needed and only confuses newcomers.
>
>   nicolasgoettel <nicolasgoettel@y...> wrote:  Hi guys
>
>   I just built a beautifull coper valved reflux still and I am
running it fo the first time. Here is
>   my question: Knowing ethanol boils @ 78deg. C at what temperture
should I heat my 10
>   liters of fermented mash?  The problem is I need to heat it quite
hot because the column is
>   not very hot (50deg.) and not much is comming out. I dont want to
heat the mash to much
>   because the water in it will boil to.
>
>   Thanks in advance
>
>   Nicolas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
>   FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
>
>
>
>     SPONSORED LINKS
>           Management team    Culture club   Organizational culture
     Culture
>
>   ---------------------------------
>     YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>       Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
>
>       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>    Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>   ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   _{*L*}_
>   Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
>   http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob
>
>
>
>   ---------------------------------
>   Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
>
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>      Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
>    FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
>
>
>
>           SPONSORED LINKS
>                                                         Management
team                                          Culture club
                               Organizational culture
                                                         Culture

>
> ---------------------------------
>     YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Shopping
>  Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

hello Harry,
   Thanks for you quick response. I am new to this forum and wasent sure  what to
expect. also, in the future do i need to repond in the  postings, or will any
email sent automaticly be posted for all to read?
   Upon reading your reply it dawned on me that you are correct, i hadnt 
realized i wasent collecting reflux, just adding a slight  re-distilation to the
whole thing. Good point. I was going to go with a  larger colum when i was
building it, but figured this would be ok  because, i would get some benefit of
reflux while keeping the flavour  of my wash. not to mention i'm a bum on a
budget, and two inch copper  pipe here is about $40-$50 for a length.
   Even so, is there a simpe equation to see what percent my current still 
collects at?  By dividing something or multiplying something? so i  will know
what to expect when i am fermenting my wash?
   cheers!

Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:          --- In
Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "porscheguy902"
   <porscheguy902@y...> wrote:
   >
   > Hello all, i was wondering what the calculation is to see excatly
   what
   > percent alcohol my still will collect from the wash. Recently i
   > collected 68% heads that i discarded (methanol) and the next was
   62%,
   > then 55%, then 50% then 40%, then 35%. i sepeated my distalate in
   this
   > fashion, first 250ml discard, then in 750ml fractions. My wash was
   > 10.5%. Its a reflux still that can be used as a pot still as well.
   A
   > 29L pony keg with a 12"x 1" copper reflux colum that i packed with
   > copper scrubbers. my condenser angles down at a 45 degree . it is
   22"
   > a 1/2" pipe with a 1" water jacket. i have it configured so i can
   > unscrew my reflux colum and just use the condenser on the keg for a
   > pot still. according to the homedistiller.org site, my 10.5% wash
   > should have collected a 56.4% vapour and i collected a higher level
   > than that. I probly have given way to much info, but i figured the
   > more the better. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I plan on
   > running some 14.7% potato vodka wash through it tomorrow.
   > thanks- huckelberry
   >



   Ok, we need to clear up a couple of things.

   1)  'Reflux' is evaporated and recondensed liquid that returns back
   down the column.  Think of water condensation from the warm air in
   your house running down a cold window pane.   You get the idea?
   That's reflux.

   2)  A true reflux still has a mechanism for controlling the amount
   of reflux returned to the column for reboiling.  This is usually via
   overhead condenser, dam/weir and valve control.

   3)  You do not have a reflux still as such.  You have a potstill
   with a small packed column that will produce 'some' uncontrolled
   reflux via the copper packing and losing heat to the atmosphere.

   Almost all potstills with columns/towers/swan-necks produce 'some'
   reflux.  Some of the larger commercial ones 'try' to control the
   reflux via external water jackets (not very successfully, I might
   add).



   Now that we've got that sorted out, let's look at your design.

   A 1" x 12" 'column' on a 29 litre boiler is virtually useless.  It
   would be more suited to a pot of ~5 litres capacity, IOW SMALL runs,
   to suit the small column.

   Look at the volume of the column.
   Vol = Pi x Radius squared x Height
   In your case, Vol = 3.1416 x 0.25" x 12" gives 9.4 cubic inches.

   This volume will do almost no separation nor reflux, and will run
   strictly as a standard potstill.  You would only get refluxing if
   the power input is somewhere below about 600 watts.  That would make
   for a very slow distillation of a 20 litre wash (read days).
   Running at higher power will give you exactly the results you are
   now getting, in terms of abv% and volume collected from the wash.

   So, how to improve on that?
   1)  Double the column diameter:  This alone will give you a column
   volume thus:
   3.1416 x 1" x 12" gives 37 cubic inches.
   That is FOUR (4) times your existing column volume (not double as
   you would at first think).

   Just by doing this, you will allow for either higher wattage input,
   or slower vapour speed, or a combination of both (desirable).  In
   any case it will be a vast improvement on your current setup and the
   quality of your potstill product.

   2)  Double diameter + double height column i.e 2" x 24".
   Vol = 3.1416 x 1" x 24" gives 75 cubic inches.

   This size of column is much more suited to your potstill with a 29
   litre boiler.  Also, it's a good starting point for a true reflux
   still.  all you need do is put an overhead condenser, dam & takeoff
   valve on top.  You could make this removable and interchangeable
   with your existing Liebig condenser.  Then you've really got the
   best of both worlds, a true Reflux still for vodka-type pure spirits
   (95.6%) and a true potstill (~80%) for flavoured spirits.

   Don't worry about the small coupling to the pony keg.  Just fit a 2"
   to 1" reducer.  It won't affect the vapour getting into the larger
   column.


   HTH

   Slainte!
   regards Harry
   Moderator






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--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jeremy Lang <porscheguy902@y...>
wrote:
>
>
> hello Harry,
>   Thanks for you quick response. I am new to this forum and wasent
sure  what to expect. also, in the future do i need to repond in
the  postings, or will any email sent automaticly be posted for all
to read?


.........Emails and web postings will appear in the lists.  There's
not much point in having a list unless others can benefit from the
questions & answers.  I don't often reply to private emails, for
that reason.



>   Upon reading your reply it dawned on me that you are correct, i
hadnt  realized i wasent collecting reflux, just adding a slight  re-
distilation to the whole thing. Good point. I was going to go with
a  larger colum when i was building it, but figured this would be
ok  because, i would get some benefit of reflux while keeping the
flavour  of my wash. not to mention i'm a bum on a budget, and two
inch copper  pipe here is about $40-$50 for a length.
>   Even so, is there a simpe equation to see what percent my
current still  collects at?  By dividing something or multiplying
something? so i  will know what to expect when i am fermenting my
wash?
>   cheers!



........No two stills or operating conditions are identical.
Best advice I can give is...buy an alcometer.  Available at homebrew
suppliers or over the 'net.


Slainte!
regards Harry

<snip>
Copper is relatively harmless for humans, but it is extremely toxic
for micro-organisms.  It kills Algae, fungi and bacteria.  The
poisonous effect starts at copper-concentrations of 10 µg/l. "

Now this could explain a peculiar phenomenon in my household.
During the annual rounds of colds/flu/viral infections, all around
me the kids, wife, friends etc. are dropping like flies!  I remain
virtually unscathed (except for a recent nasty bug from overseas).
Could this be due to my penchant for malt whisky?  I'd certainly
like to think so.  Any excuse for a wee dram.  ;-)

Now if I can just convince my liver not to explode, I should live
forever!
<end snip>

How fortunate that alcohol functions as a liver tonic!!!

;-)

DC

He's right.
In the past, many people used coal and wood (and still do!) to get the
boilers up to temperature. These people had no way of controlling the
temperature. So what the next best thing....controlling the column
temperature and that fact remains with us till this day.

Read up on the history of brewing and distillation. I found it to be a
great read and highly entertaining...that is if you like history.

Dave


--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams"
<lindsay.nz@g...> wrote:
>
> Whoever told you to control your boiler/wash temp does not know
> anything about simple physics so DON'T listen to them. No one on this
> planet has ever managed to change the boiling point of any given
> liquid (given pressure stability). If you can do it, I look forward to
> seeing your Nobel prize nomination.
>
> Just think about a pot of water on the stove. What temp does it boil
> at? 100 deg C. If the water drops below 100, what happens? Yes, it
> doesn't boil. What happens if you crank the heat up really high? No,
> the water temp does not go above 100 as this is the BP of water and we
> can't change that. What does happen is that you get much more vapour
> from the pot. This is exactly what we get in our stills except that
> the BP is lower than 100 as we have alcohol mixed with the water which
> lowers the BP of the mixture to somewhere between the BP of the
> alcohol and water. As the proportion of alcohol falls in our wash as
> the run progresses, the BP rises towards the water BP.
>
> All this explains why the idea of slowly heating up the wash to boil
> off the various alcohols, keeping it below 100 so the water won't come
> through, is just so much rubbish. Once again, I refer to
> www.homedistiller.org and the Theory section.
>
> Just boil the wash relatively slowly and let physics do its thing.
>
> Cheers,
> Lindsay.
>
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Sam Thomas <bob_the_borg@y...> wrote:
> >
> > You see this?  This here is what confuses the  hell out of me.  Some
> people tell me I need to control the boiler  temp and this guy says
> let it boil and control the column temp.   Seriously... WTF?
> >
> >   In his defense I guess each still has it's own personality and
> that  must be learned through trial and error.  Anyway, as soon as my
>  voltage control comes in I'm going to be able to control almost
> everything from the boiler temp to the percentage of alcohol in my
> urine.  No more excuses for the burnt yeast taste.
> >
> >
> >
> > _{*L*}_ <bokakob@y...> wrote:        Nicolas -- please do not watch
> the temperature in the boiler. Do an  experiment -- let it boil as
> much as it wants, BUT close a valve so you  have only 1~2 drops per
> minute coming out. Also, fully *open* the  return valve -- it is not
> needed and only confuses newcomers.
> >
> >   nicolasgoettel <nicolasgoettel@y...> wrote:  Hi guys
> >
> >   I just built a beautifull coper valved reflux still and I am
> running it fo the first time. Here is
> >   my question: Knowing ethanol boils @ 78deg. C at what temperture
> should I heat my 10
> >   liters of fermented mash?  The problem is I need to heat it quite
> hot because the column is
> >   not very hot (50deg.) and not much is comming out. I dont want to
> heat the mash to much
> >   because the water in it will boil to.
> >
> >   Thanks in advance
> >
> >   Nicolas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
> >   FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
> >
> >
> >
> >     SPONSORED LINKS
> >           Management team    Culture club   Organizational culture
>     Culture
> >
> >   ---------------------------------
> >     YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >       Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
> >
> >       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >    Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >   ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   _{*L*}_
> >   Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
> >   http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob
> >
> >
> >
> >   ---------------------------------
> >   Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
> >
> >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >      Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
> >    FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
> >
> >
> >
> >           SPONSORED LINKS
> >                                                         Management
> team                                          Culture club
>                               Organizational culture
>                                                         Culture
>
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >     YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >     Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
> >
> >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Shopping
> >  Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

I think I made a mistake on the gender part. My apologies if you are a
female.

Dave

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <diskmaster23@y...> wrote:
>
> He's right.
> In the past, many people used coal and wood (and still do!) to get the
> boilers up to temperature. These people had no way of controlling the
> temperature. So what the next best thing....controlling the column
> temperature and that fact remains with us till this day.
>
> Read up on the history of brewing and distillation. I found it to be a
> great read and highly entertaining...that is if you like history.
>
> Dave
>
>
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams"
> <lindsay.nz@g...> wrote:
> >
> > Whoever told you to control your boiler/wash temp does not know
> > anything about simple physics so DON'T listen to them. No one on this
> > planet has ever managed to change the boiling point of any given
> > liquid (given pressure stability). If you can do it, I look forward to
> > seeing your Nobel prize nomination.
> >
> > Just think about a pot of water on the stove. What temp does it boil
> > at? 100 deg C. If the water drops below 100, what happens? Yes, it
> > doesn't boil. What happens if you crank the heat up really high? No,
> > the water temp does not go above 100 as this is the BP of water and we
> > can't change that. What does happen is that you get much more vapour
> > from the pot. This is exactly what we get in our stills except that
> > the BP is lower than 100 as we have alcohol mixed with the water which
> > lowers the BP of the mixture to somewhere between the BP of the
> > alcohol and water. As the proportion of alcohol falls in our wash as
> > the run progresses, the BP rises towards the water BP.
> >
> > All this explains why the idea of slowly heating up the wash to boil
> > off the various alcohols, keeping it below 100 so the water won't come
> > through, is just so much rubbish. Once again, I refer to
> > www.homedistiller.org and the Theory section.
> >
> > Just boil the wash relatively slowly and let physics do its thing.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Lindsay.
> >
> > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Sam Thomas <bob_the_borg@y...>
wrote:
> > >
> > > You see this?  This here is what confuses the  hell out of me.  Some
> > people tell me I need to control the boiler  temp and this guy says
> > let it boil and control the column temp.   Seriously... WTF?
> > >
> > >   In his defense I guess each still has it's own personality and
> > that  must be learned through trial and error.  Anyway, as soon as my
> >  voltage control comes in I'm going to be able to control almost
> > everything from the boiler temp to the percentage of alcohol in my
> > urine.  No more excuses for the burnt yeast taste.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _{*L*}_ <bokakob@y...> wrote:        Nicolas -- please do not watch
> > the temperature in the boiler. Do an  experiment -- let it boil as
> > much as it wants, BUT close a valve so you  have only 1~2 drops per
> > minute coming out. Also, fully *open* the  return valve -- it is not
> > needed and only confuses newcomers.
> > >
> > >   nicolasgoettel <nicolasgoettel@y...> wrote:  Hi guys
> > >
> > >   I just built a beautifull coper valved reflux still and I am
> > running it fo the first time. Here is
> > >   my question: Knowing ethanol boils @ 78deg. C at what temperture
> > should I heat my 10
> > >   liters of fermented mash?  The problem is I need to heat it quite
> > hot because the column is
> > >   not very hot (50deg.) and not much is comming out. I dont want to
> > heat the mash to much
> > >   because the water in it will boil to.
> > >
> > >   Thanks in advance
> > >
> > >   Nicolas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
> > >   FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >     SPONSORED LINKS
> > >           Management team    Culture club   Organizational culture
> >     Culture
> > >
> > >   ---------------------------------
> > >     YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >
> > >       Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
> > >
> > >       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >    Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >   ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   _{*L*}_
> > >   Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
> > >   http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   ---------------------------------
> > >   Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
> > >
> > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >      Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
> > >    FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >           SPONSORED LINKS
> > >                                                         Management
> > team                                          Culture club
> >                               Organizational culture
> >                                                         Culture
> >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >     YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >
> > >     Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.
> > >
> > >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >  Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Yahoo! Shopping
> > >  Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

Thanks for the info.

But I have decided on a novel cheap idea.
I am going to purchase a steel pail with a lever lock on it. These
things are available all over the country and are available in many
sizes. The only thing lacking is a flange on it. To solve that, I will
just drill a hole in it and have a local tid welder put the flange on
to the lid, and there ya go...you got a decent boiler for under 30
dollars.

I just wish in the past when I was making my first boiler that I had
thought about this before.

Dave

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Brian Shafer <starch@b...> wrote:
>
> Try here.  http://www.kegs.com/index.html
> starch
>
>
> Brandon Lee wrote:
>
> > Try a quarter size beer keg--they make them in 5 and 7.5 gal
> > sizes--the 5 gal is much like a soda cannister cylinder with  handles
> > on top--very nice--the 7.5 gal is like a keg with the center cut
> > away--it's short and made very well
> >   Happy New Years
> >   your brother in the spirits
> >   Blueflame456
>

I have just begun to research home distilling and most sources call for
a 2 inch column.  Is it possible to use 1.5 inch?  I'm having a hard
time finding 2 inch copper pipe but I can get 1.5 inch just down the
road from my house.

Thanks
starch

Hi Nic, You asked:

> Hi guys
>
> I am new to distilling and this is my first try. Is it normal to get 2
diffrent immicible liquids
> (two liquids that dont mix)??? There is one that is clear that is heavier
and a white foggy
> one on top. Also I got the clear stuff when I started distilling and there
is only a few mls.
> of it. Now it is lots of the foggy stuff comming out. Also if it is normal
what are those two
> liquids ethanol and methanol??? Also are there risks of makin methanol
with a valved
> reflux still??

Sounds like you've got some essential oil. What's in your wash? Any citrus
peal? The foggy liquid is probably an emulsion of oil and alcohol. If you
let it sit for a few hours or even a couple of days it should separate
completely and you could decant off the top.

Peter

I'm not just after the sherry contribution, but the less harsh taste that
second-hand oak will impart. I've used old oak chips for a honey derived
spirit and had good (but very slow) results. The oak was from a few
different old batches and was really too spent. I'd like to control it a bit
better this time with a shorter period and a more appropriate soaking agent.
I guess I could always add back some of the sherry if the oak character is
too subdued.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

Peter

> why not just add a little cream sherry to your final product?  I
> think harry said 10ml/1L of spirit.  Get the same effect without the
> fuss.
>
> .br.

Harry,
   I have a  alcometer and i  take readings from every fraction. What i'm asking
is, Is there a  formula to calculate my stills ability to convert 100% of the
washes  alcohol content. its efficiency . If i start with a wash that is 
10.5%abv and my still produces 68%abv heads does my still collect @ 68%  purity?
how do i calculate my purity?? thats all i really want to know.
   -cheers
Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:          --- In
Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jeremy Lang <porscheguy902@y...>
   wrote:
   >
   >
   > hello Harry,
   >   Thanks for you quick response. I am new to this forum and wasent
   sure  what to expect. also, in the future do i need to repond in
   the  postings, or will any email sent automaticly be posted for all
   to read?


   .........Emails and web postings will appear in the lists.  There's
   not much point in having a list unless others can benefit from the
   questions & answers.  I don't often reply to private emails, for
   that reason.



   >   Upon reading your reply it dawned on me that you are correct, i
   hadnt  realized i wasent collecting reflux, just adding a slight  re-
   distilation to the whole thing. Good point. I was going to go with
   a  larger colum when i was building it, but figured this would be
   ok  because, i would get some benefit of reflux while keeping the
   flavour  of my wash. not to mention i'm a bum on a budget, and two
   inch copper  pipe here is about $40-$50 for a length.
   >   Even so, is there a simpe equation to see what percent my
   current still  collects at?  By dividing something or multiplying
   something? so i  will know what to expect when i am fermenting my
   wash?
   >   cheers!



   ........No two stills or operating conditions are identical.
   Best advice I can give is...buy an alcometer.  Available at homebrew
   suppliers or over the 'net.


   Slainte!
   regards Harry





      Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
    FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



---------------------------------
     YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


     Visit your group "Distillers" on the web.

     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  Distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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---------------------------------






---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Jeremy Lang <porscheguy902@y...>
wrote:
>
> Harry,
>   I have a  alcometer and i  take readings from every fraction.
What i'm asking is, Is there a  formula to calculate my stills
ability to convert 100% of the washes  alcohol content. its
efficiency .



...........No.  Because you can never convert 100% of any wash, no
matter how efficient your still appears to be.   There is always
losses.


  If i start with a wash that is  10.5%abv and my still produces 68%
abv heads does my still collect @ 68%  purity? how do i calculate my
purity?? thats all i really want to know.



...........I honestly don't know what it is you're asking.   Use
your alcometer, add up the results, then you tell me how efficient
your still is.


Slainte!
regards Harry

the cloudy liquid may also be an emulsion from the grease/oil present on the
metal used to build the still. should dissapeard next run.

   tintin_milou92


Peter Angus <peterangus@...> a écrit :
   Hi Nic, You asked:

> Hi guys
>
> I am new to distilling and this is my first try. Is it normal to get 2
diffrent immicible liquids
> (two liquids that dont mix)??? There is one that is clear that is heavier
and a white foggy
> one on top. Also I got the clear stuff when I started distilling and there
is only a few mls.
> of it. Now it is lots of the foggy stuff comming out. Also if it is normal
what are those two
> liquids ethanol and methanol??? Also are there risks of makin methanol
with a valved
> reflux still??

Sounds like you've got some essential oil. What's in your wash? Any citrus
peal? The foggy liquid is probably an emulsion of oil and alcohol. If you
let it sit for a few hours or even a couple of days it should separate
completely and you could decant off the top.

Peter



Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org



---------------------------------
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     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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---------------------------------






tintin_milou92

---------------------------------
  Nouveau : téléphonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! Découvez les tarifs
exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international.Téléchargez la version
beta.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

assuming full absorption, you would have to drink at least 3 litres at
a time to gain ca 10microgramme/litre (body). i suspect liver toxicity
would set in before any bug killing.
toxicity data for copper sulphate:
http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/coppersu.htm

Interestingly, you'd need to drink about 50,000 l to kill yourself by
copper poisoning.

A question for Miciofelice:
when you grappa stillers get your product tested, what level is maximum
allowed?

Cheers,
Rob.
p.s. calculations are likely to be a factor of upto 2 off, due to
assumptions:
1kg of human = 1 litre of liquid, a human is 70kg (well, I am),
and most drastically (and incorrectly I know, but i'm still recovering
from NY Eve) copper sulphate weighs the same as copper.


--- Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

> I've come across some info that is food for thought.
>
> " Malt whisky contains quite a lot of copper for a liquid.
> According to literature the average is 477 µg/l. This does not sound
> like very much.  You would need almost 7000 bottles of whisky to get
> the equilvalent of one euro-cent worth of copper!
>
> Copper is relatively harmless for humans, but it is extremely toxic
> for micro-organisms.  It kills Algae, fungi and bacteria.  The
> poisonous effect starts at copper-concentrations of 10 µg/l. "
>
> Now this could explain a peculiar phenomenon in my household.
> During the annual rounds of colds/flu/viral infections, all around
> me the kids, wife, friends etc. are dropping like flies!  I remain
> virtually unscathed (except for a recent nasty bug from overseas).
> Could this be due to my penchant for malt whisky?  I'd certainly
> like to think so.  Any excuse for a wee dram.  ;-)
>
> Now if I can just convince my liver not to explode, I should live
> forever!  I hope so, there's lots of Malts I haven't tried yet. :))
>
> Perhaps this fellow said it best...
>
> "If a person could just find out the exact proportion and quantity
> that ought to be drunk every day and keep to that, I verily believe
> that he might live forever, without dying at all, and that doctors
> and churchyards would go out of fashion".  - James Hogg (The Ettrick
> Shepherd; 1820s).
>
>
> Comments?
>
>
> Slainte!
> regards Harry
>
>
>
>
>
>


Cheers,
Rob.




__________________________________
Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/

You can use a 1.5 inch column but to get the same results you will need a
longer column or you will have to run your still slower.
Try looking at scrap metal yards and even plumbers/Air-conditioning
companies that work on larger buildings. There are many places that this and
larger diameter pipes are available just try to think of industries that use
them and go and find yourself a tradesman that works in these industries
they will all have off cut they can't use.
I have found that in pursuing this hobby it is very beneficial to be able to
think laterally when looking for possible components to build you plumbers
nightmare.

Good luck
Dean.

  > I have just begun to research home distilling and most sources call for
> a 2 inch column.  Is it possible to use 1.5 inch?  I'm having a hard
> time finding 2 inch copper pipe but I can get 1.5 inch just down the
> road from my house.
>
> Thanks
> starch

Hey Starch
Try this link
http://homedistiller.org/static_menu.htm
and check out Making a Still/Designs & Plans.
I believe there are 1.5 inch  columns (tall) in
use, Since you beginning to research home distilling
you could try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/
Two inch copper is readily available from
distributors who supply commercial plumbing
contractors or commercial plumbing contractors,
I told them I was repairing my irrigation on
my hobby farm, they were very helpful.
cheers
greg
--- starch <starch@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
I have just begun to research home distilling and most
sources call for
a 2 inch column.  Is it possible to use 1.5 inch?  I'm
having a hard
time finding 2 inch copper pipe but I can get 1.5 inch
just down the
road from my house.

Thanks
starch



  Distillers list archives :
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Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca

That is pretty much the best way to acquire these hard to find items.
They are otherwise very expensive if you purchase them via plumbing
stores by 10 foot section.

Dave

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Thomas" <deanlil@p...> wrote:
>
> You can use a 1.5 inch column but to get the same results you will
need a
> longer column or you will have to run your still slower.
> Try looking at scrap metal yards and even plumbers/Air-conditioning
> companies that work on larger buildings. There are many places that
this and
> larger diameter pipes are available just try to think of industries
that use
> them and go and find yourself a tradesman that works in these industries
> they will all have off cut they can't use.
> I have found that in pursuing this hobby it is very beneficial to be
able to
> think laterally when looking for possible components to build you
plumbers
> nightmare.
>
> Good luck
> Dean.
>
>  > I have just begun to research home distilling and most sources
call for
> > a 2 inch column.  Is it possible to use 1.5 inch?  I'm having a hard
> > time finding 2 inch copper pipe but I can get 1.5 inch just down the
> > road from my house.
> >
> > Thanks
> > starch
>

Has anyone tried excessively large boiler with malt mashes to control
the foaming? I just ran into 60 liters fermentation buckets in my local
brew shop. I thought they would make a fine boiler for 25 liters mashes
and could even hold the foam with higher powers. What I'd like to know
is if anyone has tried a higher powered stripping run with only one
third of the boiler filled and how it turned out?

- Riku