----- Original Message -----

From: bigwhitehunters

To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:40 AM

Subject: [Distillers] N/S- not happy with product quality!

I have made a N/S still, and have done four runs with it. I was
hoping that the end product would be better. The vodka
produced tastes fine but there is quiet a strong smell when
compared to commercial vodka. The still is designed and
run in the reccomended manner, producing 94-95%. In order
to minimise the smell I have made my cuts as follows;


                     %OF MASH     ACCUMILATIVE %

FORESHOTS         3%                   3%

HEADS                    4%                    7%     
( The taste is ok prior to this point, but not the smell)

MID-RUN              43%                  53%   
(Beyond this point the flavour becomes quiet strong and smell 
starts reappearing)

TAILS                      35%                  88%

LOSSES                 12%                 100%

I stop the collection at  81C. I have achived nearly the same results
twice with bakers yeast (fermented to 8%) and twice with an
Alcotec turbo(Fermented to 16%)

Do these cuts seem excessively tight? Can anyone out there give
me their  cuts for vodka. I do appreciate that individual taste will
play a part.

Is it normal for there to be some smell even with the N/S design?

I am considering doing some of the following to try to improve the
quality and increase the cut, what would you Reccomend?

My boiler is stainless steel but the whole upper section is copper. I
am currently using SS scrubbers, would it make a significant
difference if I replaced the SS scourers with copper? If not I dont
want to waste my time and money.

One of my washes was not quiet as clear as the others and this
seemed to make a significant difference to the cut(smell). I have
been using wine finings, are there better products that will make a
big difference?

Or is the only solution to use activated carbon, and as some suggest
oak chips?

One last question. Why would I use wood or peat activated carbon
rather than coal based carbon (which can be reactivated)?

Many Thanks

Jim




To unsubscribe from this group send a blank email to   distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

OK....then you agree that 'pressure cooking' used carbon is better than
merely boiling in an open container,allowing steam to escape through the
whole process?.......as I stated in my original post,I am NOT
disagreeing,just trying to decide whether I need to change my
carbon-cleaning method...:>)...thanks...


>From: "Mike Nixon" <mike@...>
>Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: cleaning carbon
>Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 10:59:39 +1200
>
>Harley Daschund
>Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: cleaning carbon
>
>Right...and using that logic,the higher temps shouldnt be required to
>remove them...:>)
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Tony Ackland wrote:
>[Q: How are these fusels,of the 100C+ BP variety,getting into your
>distillate?.....I never  collect past 80-81c on a final run...:>)]
>
>A: The same way that water with its boiling point of 100C gets into your
>brew.
>      A mixture doesnt behave like its individual members.
>Tony
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Au contraire Harley, logic says that higher temps will be beneficial!  :-)
>Temperature is a measure of the kinetic energy of molecules ... the higher
>the temp the faster they move.
>You are trying to break an electrostatic bond to release the adsorbed
>molecules from the carbon, so the more molecular agitation you get then the
>more bonds you will break.
>MIke N
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

I always do a run with wate @ full power,just to 'steam clean' the column
and packing...I fully dismantle and remove packing from column(after water
run) every 3-4 runs and anytime the column isnt going to  be used for a
while...:>)
PS: Cold water dosnt do a very good job of cleaning the 'nasties' from the
packing etc...good luck...:>)


>From: "Ken Grady" <kengrady@...>
>Subject: [Distillers] Cleaning Up
>Gday All,
>
>Having just started with my new rig I was wanting to know what is be best
>to clean up the still & in particular the column where the pot scrubbers
>are located. Do you have to remove all the scrubbers or can I just as I
>have done so far just shove the hose in the top & run it at full bore for a
>couple of minutes, is this sufficient? Any advise is greatly appreciated
>,thanks.
>Just took some photo's will post asap.
>
>Ken Grady

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
<homedistiller@y...> wrote:
> Thanks Wal, for all that info!
>
> Now, I have a question: the Old Testament of the Bible mentions the
> consumption of what is called "strong drink"

  Howdy,
I studied this question wnen I was a youth questioning the teachings
of the church I was raised in. They taught that consuming alcohol was
a sin. My question was, if that is so why did God tell his people
to "buy wine or strong drink or whatever your heart desires".
The answer was that strong drink was beer. And the result of my
studies led me to avoid irrational and illogical religous rules!
Now I figure if God wants me to behave a certain way he will tell me
himself.

Hi,`

Thank God you were interested in what was true! It's definitely
better to be confused than to believe a lie!

Well, I asked this question on the forum to find out about the
earliest reports on distilling. There is a lot of confusion about it.
Many reports speak about the arabs being first, but the chinese
seemed to be earlier.

It's possible that "strong drink" in the Bible means something else
than "distilled" but I think they must have had some ways to
"fortify" wine.

By the way, thank you, Wal and Bokakob for those answers!

Dirk


In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stillyaakman" <stillyaakman@y...>
wrote:
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
> <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
> > Thanks Wal, for all that info!
> >
> > Now, I have a question: the Old Testament of the Bible mentions
the
> > consumption of what is called "strong drink"
>
>  Howdy,
> I studied this question wnen I was a youth questioning the
teachings
> of the church I was raised in. They taught that consuming alcohol
was
> a sin. My question was, if that is so why did God tell his people
> to "buy wine or strong drink or whatever your heart desires".
> The answer was that strong drink was beer. And the result of my
> studies led me to avoid irrational and illogical religous rules!
> Now I figure if God wants me to behave a certain way he will tell
me
> himself.

--- "homedistiller" wrote:
> Hi,`
>
> Snip< It's definitely better to be confused
> than to believe a lie!
>
> Snip<  but the chinese seemed to be earlier.
>
  Dirk

The Chinese lay claim to all things that suit them. Nothing against
that society as they 'seem' to have ancient records of a lot of
things. You know - first language, writing and all..

I have no idea about the first 'strong drink' - however, there were
lots of things that happened in those times that were not recorded
for our "history". Let your imagination run wild and I'm sure you
could conger up lots of possibilities.

"Ugg and Grunt were sitting by the fire heating up their grain moog
and saw that it was getting a little warm. They placed the 'now
famous' sheep skin over the stone pot and promptly went to sleep.
Next morning everything seemed to be gone. Ugg said 'Grap... and then
they sucked the last bits of stuff from the fur.. They got drunker
than 'pfuiff' and this - forever more - became known as:
  "Ummm strong moog". Mmmm... get the gathers. me gona make more..

lol...

I found a couple of 40 L milk cans this weekend for cheap NZ$$$.  They
are "Solar Solderless" brand. I think they are galvanized, but haven't
tested that with a drop of HCl yet.  They do have surface rust on the
outside, but are for the most part shiny on the inside.  They are
ferritic according to the magnet test.  I sure am tempted to use them
with a compound column.  Any thoughts on using galvanized materials
for a boiler?

Thanks,

Todd K.

I can be wrong I must say
Cheers, Alex...
A

I can be wrong I must say
Cheers, Alex...
A

I can be wrong I must say
Cheers, Alex...
A

The Babylonians were brewing beer and it was more widely consumed
than wine - so beer and wine would have been known to people in the
Old Testament. But the beer was not strong, so it is a question of
interpretation and translation. Wine is part of Jewish and Christian
rituals, so how can it be sinful?
Wal
--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
> Blessed those who believe if you know what that mean.
>
> stillyaakman <stillyaakman@y...> wrote:--- In
Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
> <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
> > Thanks Wal, for all that info!
> >
> > Now, I have a question: the Old Testament of the Bible mentions
the
> > consumption of what is called "strong drink"
>
> Howdy,
> I studied this question wnen I was a youth questioning the
teachings
> of the church I was raised in. They taught that consuming alcohol
was
> a sin. My question was, if that is so why did God tell his people
> to "buy wine or strong drink or whatever your heart desires".
> The answer was that strong drink was beer. And the result of my
> studies led me to avoid irrational and illogical religous rules!
> Now I figure if God wants me to behave a certain way he will tell
me
> himself.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
> To unsubscribe from this group send a blank email to   distillers-
unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
> FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>
> I can be wrong I must say
> Cheers, Alex...
> A
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

In a message dated 7/31/03 7:43:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
bigwhitehunters@... writes:

<<  I am currently using SS scrubbers, would it make a significant difference
     if I replaced the SS scourers with copper? >>


     Howdy BWH,  I've switched from SS to copper scrubbers with excellent
results.  My still components are the same as yours ( SS boiler with copper
column, etc.).  Make sure your wash is very clear before distilling.  I rack off
the
top 3\4 of a ferment into a very clean glass carboy and let that settle then
take the top 3\4 of that for the distillation.  Add the dregs to a previous
dreg collection, settle, rack, etc.  Keep the fermenter and dregs sealed from
the outside air (airlock, etc.).  Some folks have carbon (not fishtank) in the
bottom of their fermenter.  Sometimes I do in the secondary but haven't noticed
any improvement.  Take a smaller % of mid-cut, save all the heads, tails,
etc. and add them to the next distillation.   Keep rolling those H&T's over to
the next until you can accumulate enough on the front end for keeping in a jar
for label remover.  The nastiest tails will remain in the boiler when you
finish every run.  Try this and see if it works for you.  Happy distilling!

In a message dated 7/31/03 11:02:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
maxime_belair@... writes:

<< What about the pressure, this still like all other pot stills won't have a
great access to air. >>

     Better make sure your connections at the boiler are strong and tight.
The alcohol vapors will be pushed out from the back pressure and end up on your
burner if any leaks are present.  Good thing you are doing this outside and
away from the house, huh?  Don't forget to have a fire extinguisher handy.  Good
luck - I mean it.

Thanks for the input guys much appreciated.

Ken

It is not a question of zinc rising up the column.  The issue with
galvanized pots (just like with aluminum) is that zinc reacts
strongly with the acids in the wash, which will strip off the
galvanizing in very short order, ruining the vessel.
Zinc is also quite reactive (and somewhat catalytic), and will form
a variety of new compounds with many of the organic material present
in the wash.  Many of these compounds MAY be volatile and MAY taste
or smell bad.
I'm not waving a panic flag that says you will be poisoned if you
boil in a galvanized pot, just pointing out that boiling was in it
will ruin the pot and might spoil the taste of the beverage.
Aluminum is much less reactive than zinc (due to the presence of
protective aluminum oxide), but it does not stand up well to
repeated cooking of acidic compounds either.
Cheers,
Mike McCaw

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
> zink will not be able to rise up the column. you will get more
zink by standing on a street with car traffic compared to that of
theoretical possibility of contamination through diffusion and
chaotic movement of molecules. please tell me how that zink is going
to get up the column?
>
> K&J <macandjo@p...> wrote:FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-
000000000000;zinc a Big no no
>
> Cheers Ken Mc
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, August 02, 2003 7:06:04 PM
> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Distillers] Thoughts on galvanized boiler?
>
>
> I found a couple of 40 L milk cans this weekend for cheap NZ$$$.
They
> are "Solar Solderless" brand. I think they are galvanized, but
haven't
> tested that with a drop of HCl yet. They do have surface rust on
the
> outside, but are for the most part shiny on the inside. They are
> ferritic according to the magnet test. I sure am tempted to use
them
> with a compound column. Any thoughts on using galvanized materials
> for a boiler?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Todd K.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group send a blank email to distillers-
unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
> FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> .
> ____________________________________________________
>   IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
> To unsubscribe from this group send a blank email to   distillers-
unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
> FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>
> I can be wrong I must say
> Cheers, Alex...
> A
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

From www.Homedistiller.org:

Galvanised materials are not safe to use on the condenser side, but
if it's part of the boiler or at the bottom end of the column, it
should be fine (provided you don't boil so vigorously that your wash
bubbles up through your column and into your collecting container.
Toxic salts from metals can be dissolved in liquid, but remain behind
when the liquid is vaporized (as in a reflux column).
"If it pours, drink it"
Robert

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "toddk63" <toddk63@y...> wrote:
> I found a couple of 40 L milk cans this weekend for cheap NZ$$$.
They
> are "Solar Solderless" brand. I think they are galvanized, but
haven't
> tested that with a drop of HCl yet.  They do have surface rust on
the
> outside, but are for the most part shiny on the inside.  They are
> ferritic according to the magnet test.  I sure am tempted to use
them
> with a compound column.  Any thoughts on using galvanized materials
> for a boiler?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Todd K.

I did the HCl test side by side with a galvnized nail.  The nail
bubbled, the milk can did not.  They must be tinned!

Todd K.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "toddk63" <toddk63@y...> wrote:
> I found a couple of 40 L milk cans this weekend for cheap NZ$$$.
They
> are "Solar Solderless" brand. I think they are galvanized, but
haven't
> tested that with a drop of HCl yet.  They do have surface rust on
the
> outside, but are for the most part shiny on the inside.  They are
> ferritic according to the magnet test.  I sure am tempted to use
them
> with a compound column.  Any thoughts on using galvanized materials
> for a boiler?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Todd K.

The Portuguese planted cashews from Brazil in Indian Goa. The trees
apart from provide valuable nuts, but the cashew 'apple' which comes
with the nut, is also fermented and distilled to make 'feni'. The
cashew apples are crushed by feet, allowed to ferment and then
distilled in a large earthenware pot. For photos of the process see -
http://www.goatourism.org/Destinations/AncestralGoa/bhati.htm
For where it is consumed see -
http://www.goatourism.org/Destinations/AncestralGoa/taverna.htm

Wal

I can be wrong I must say
Cheers, Alex...
A

Mike,
In "The Compleat Distiller" chapter 8 there's a section
titled "Supercooling and Column Stability". If I understand it
correctly, you seem to be saying that you don't need to worry
about "excessive" cooling water flow to the condenser. If the
condenser happens to cool the distllate, the column can accomdate
this via a small buffer zone right at the top of the packing. My
still is as outlined in the book "THE DISTILLATION OF ALCOHOL A
Professional Guide for Amateur Distillers" except that the column is
1.875" and the condenser is made of 21' 1/4" copper tubing.
Yesterday was the first run. While the run went well, there was one
anomoly. After the boil started, the temp shot up to 178 then went
down over the next 20 minutes and settled at 168. I kept waiting for
it to drop lower, but it never did (I only waited about 45 minutes
after the initial temp drop). Since the temp stopped at 168, I
figured that the column had equalibriated, even though it didn't
seem to take very long. The first stuff coming off (1 drop/sec)
smelled like lighter fluid and was discarded (125 ml). I kept
expecting the temp to go up at some point, but it never did. The
only time the temp ever went up was when I cranked up the output to
find the upper limit. It went to 170 and I turned it back down so
that I was collecting 7 ml/min. This kept the temp from climbing.
I'm wondering if the condenser was cooling the distillate so much
that the temp was lower than expected (because of the "buffering"
area at the top of the column?). The condenser has tons of extra
capacity as it only gets warm about 1/4-1/3 of its length (depending
on how much heat is being applied). What do you make of this? Thanks.

Thanks for the previous dicsussion on "Galvanized Boilers".  Consensus
seems to be..."You can get away with it, but try to find a more
suitable material"  After all, we are serious amatuers striving for
better tnan professional results.

So I determined my milk cans were tinned. Good news.  I filled one
with some water, hammered on the lid, inverted it..and...IT LEAKED!!
:o(  My lids are the kind with the tapered fit and the flat top.

My question is... I presume this lid needs to be water tight, right?
Any experience out there with getting these things to seal up.  Did it
just seal right up for you or did you have to futz around with
sealants, gaskets, etc...?

The mating surfaces of the lid and neck have some roughness due to
rust.  I am going to take a more aggressive approach than just
Scotch-Brite to smooth these down and give it another try.

Thanks,

Todd K.