----- Original Message -----

From: peter_vcb

To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 12:48 AM

Subject: Re: SV: [Distillers] Amazing still questions

Hi Mike
the problem is you want the bottom of the amazing still to be as cool
as possible to stop the distillate re-evaporating. the ones in
http://www.aquaristikshop.de/ are very cheap, but then again postage
doubles the cost still under 20 euro though. it may work if you had a
tube from the bottom so the distillate never pools in the bottom

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
> singlescanner wrote:
> Subject: Re: SV: [Distillers] Amazing still questions
>
> I hoped to avoid opening the heater.  What I was considering was a
Hagen Tronic heater, which I think can have the thermostat "fixed"
for my uses.  Of course, if I could find a heater that would just run
all the time at 45 C or so, I'd be happiest.  I can find other Jager
heaters (the TS series that range from 18 to 34 C), but not the one
you mentioned with a suitable preset temperature.
> ============================
> This got me pondering, as the exercise seems to be getting
expensive.
> Has anyone tried using ordinary light bulbs as heaters?  Amost all
of their rated output is in the form of heat, not light.
> I'm not suggesting anything so silly as submerging them in the
wash, but mounting them in a small open-topped box (cardboard even)
and sitting Johan's still on top of that should give you all the heat
you need for that still, at whatever wattage you require, and for far
less cost than an aquarium heater.
>
> Mike N



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Does the 3M glue also stick to Teflon , PFA or PVDF?
Is also available in Europe/the Netherlands

greetings
Moutwijn

  s--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
<homedistiller@y...> wrote:
> Over here, polypropylene pipes are quite commonly sold for
household
> sewage applications and are advised for their high chemical
> resistance and resistance to hot temperatures. They have a white
> color and are marked with PP. They cost just a touch more than the
> regular PVC sewage pipes.
>
> Polypropylene is normally hot welded or used with those sealing
> fittings. You can't glue it, well, 3M made a two component glue for
> it, but even epoxy glue doesn't stick to it:
>
> http://www.stealth316.com/2-dp8005.htm
>
> Dirk
>
>
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...> wrote:
> > Some sites to show that various plastics are used. Polypropylene
> only
> > appears suitable for alcohol and a temp of 110C.
> > http://www.rinker.com/hydroconduit/infobriefs/i2002.htm
> > http://www.cpv.co.uk/Prop-p.htm
> > http://www.witt.co.il/p4.html
> > Wal

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Distillers
group.

   File        : /ETHANOL-WATER.xlr
   Uploaded by : moutwijn <eenwhiskeymetijs@...>
   Description : Ethanol/water mixtures

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/files/ETHANOL-WATER.xlr

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

moutwijn <eenwhiskeymetijs@...>

In the Files file you will find the file Ethanol/water mixtures.
In this file you will see the relation between the density (measured
at 20 °C) and the ethanol % by volume.


greetings

  Moutwijn

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Janho" <janho@u...> wrote:
> Looking for a list/table of hydrometer values in relation to alc.
vol.

----- Original Message -----

From: Janho

To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 11:37 AM

Subject: [Distillers] Hydrometer reading

Looking for a list/table of hydrometer values in relation to alc. vol.




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Hi Mike,

Smudge did also send his plans to me. His pictures, drawings and
information were the primary reason for me to wonder about you
defining his still as a pot still.

My remarks:

1) Packing.
Is the use of packing conditional to have a reflux still ?
Smudge uses no packing, but so many industrial columns don't use
packing, they have trays instead. Smudge's still has a tall and wide
column and it has many horizontal plates, placed so, that they
function like simple trays. His still does not operate on single
stage reflux as a pot still, but does definitely so in several
stages.
How otherwise could he obtain that purity ?

2) Uninsulated
Is the use of insulation conditional to speak of a reflux still ?
One must create reflux somewhere. With his design, he heats up his
room to create reflux, others will heat up the drain with warm water.

3) As far as asking Smudge to publish his design to the group: I'm
sure you read some of the posts adressed to Smudge. Would you
comfortably share ideas with people who prefer to see you in an
asylum ?

Mike, don't take me wrong about my remarks. For personal use, I would
probably modify Smudge's design. I would extend the column to have
more stages (less reflux needed), I would insulate it and would
create the traditional reflux outside of the column etc.

BUT, I appreciate Smudge's ideas about controlling the still with the
temperature sensor on top and I very much admire his polite,
steadfast and scientific attitude with which he defends his
experiments. I have no problems at all with knowledgeable people
saying "I win" when they win.

Sincerely,
Dirk

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
> homedistiller wrote:
> Subject: [Distillers] Re: Goats and other rubbish
>
> I'm still very puzzled about Mike Nixon calling your still a pot
still !?
> =====================================
> I call it a pot still because the column contains no packing and
because it is uninsulated, both of which are features that define a
reflux still.  Smudge has kindly sent me details of its construction.
  The feature that makes it a "better" pot still is that he has
devised a way of getting the reflux that condenses on the uninsulated
walls away from them by a series of plates that direct the reflux to
the centre of the column.  This reduces the amount of cooling and
promotes further re-evaporation.  It is a good technique.
>
> You might ask Smudge to publish his design to this Group, and you
will see what I mean.  His design, his privilege.
>
> Mike N

----- Original Message -----

From: moutwijn

To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 11:50 PM

Subject: [Distillers] Re: Poly pipe etc/glue

Does the 3M glue also stick to Teflon , PFA or PVDF?
Is also available in Europe/the Netherlands

greetings
Moutwijn

s--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
<homedistiller@y...> wrote:
> Over here, polypropylene pipes are quite commonly sold for
household
> sewage applications and are advised for their high chemical
> resistance and resistance to hot temperatures. They have a white
> color and are marked with PP. They cost just a touch more than the
> regular PVC sewage pipes.
>
> Polypropylene is normally hot welded or used with those sealing
> fittings. You can't glue it, well, 3M made a two component glue for
> it, but even epoxy glue doesn't stick to it:
>
> http://www.stealth316.com/2-dp8005.htm
>
> Dirk
>
>
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...> wrote:
> > Some sites to show that various plastics are used. Polypropylene
> only
> > appears suitable for alcohol and a temp of 110C.
> > http://www.rinker.com/hydroconduit/infobriefs/i2002.htm
> > http://www.cpv.co.uk/Prop-p.htm
> > http://www.witt.co.il/p4.html
> > Wal



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----- Original Message -----

From: smudge311065

To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 6:37 AM

Subject: [Distillers] Re: Goats and other rubbish

Hi Charlie,

I'm damn sure I can control the output purity of my still by setting
the output temperature - when I run my still I sit and watch it
happen. It bothers me that people in this newsgroup have told me this
is not physically possible.

Last time I checked, science does not dictate to the world how it
should behave. Science is just our feeble attempt to explain what we
see. I have made a few feeble attempts to explain what I see. If you
don't like them then that's fine - come up with a better one.

You might prefer to just tell me I'm making the whole thing up. That
way you won't need to think about it at all.

Consider this an open invitation to anyone in this newsgroup to come
over an examine my still in operation. If I'm making all this up I
will soon be exposed and you can throw me out of the newsgroup.


Smudge





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Here is the product data sheet of the 3M glue:
http://www.galindberg.se/bilder/dp8005.pdf

Teflon (PTFE) is not supported, but I believe 3M has another product
that can bond it.

Dirk



--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Zoran Vujcic" <zvujcic@v...>
wrote:
> NO
> Zoran
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: moutwijn
>   To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 11:50 PM
>   Subject: [Distillers] Re: Poly pipe etc/glue
>
>
>   Does the 3M glue also stick to Teflon , PFA or PVDF?
>   Is also available in Europe/the Netherlands
>
>   greetings
>   Moutwijn
>
>   s--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
>   <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
>   > Over here, polypropylene pipes are quite commonly sold for
>   household
>   > sewage applications and are advised for their high chemical
>   > resistance and resistance to hot temperatures. They have a white
>   > color and are marked with PP. They cost just a touch more than
the
>   > regular PVC sewage pipes.
>   >
>   > Polypropylene is normally hot welded or used with those sealing
>   > fittings. You can't glue it, well, 3M made a two component glue
for
>   > it, but even epoxy glue doesn't stick to it:
>   >
>   > http://www.stealth316.com/2-dp8005.htm
>   >
>   > Dirk
>   >
>   >
>   > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...>
wrote:
>   > > Some sites to show that various plastics are used.
Polypropylene
>   > only
>   > > appears suitable for alcohol and a temp of 110C.
>   > > http://www.rinker.com/hydroconduit/infobriefs/i2002.htm
>   > > http://www.cpv.co.uk/Prop-p.htm
>   > > http://www.witt.co.il/p4.html
>   > > Wal
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>   To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

I've been thinking about the rum I made the other day that turned out
crap and have a bit more background and a few theories of my own.

The wash was 8kg of straight sweet molasses diluted down to an SG of
1.10 which fermented out to 1.05 giving a total alcohol in the wash of
7% using bread yeast.

My theory on why the taste and smell is so strong is because in
distilling the wash, I was concentrating that 7% up to 95% but along
with the alcohol I was concentrating the already strong flavours and
smells by a factor of about 13 times as well.

Does it work like that??

I've just started another brew with a heap less molasses (only
800grams or so) and the rest 4kg of raw sugar and 2 kg of white sugar
and still spirits turbo yeast. This should ferment out to about 19% so
when I distill it, it will get concentrated by a factor of only about
5 times.

Therefore according to my (possibly complete bullshit) theory - it
should have a mellower taste and smell.

Any thoughts??

> Put it on oak, forget about it for a year,

That's the plan with the stuff I did the other day at this stage. I
also thought that I could chuck it in with a straight sugar wash and
run it through the still again to see if things mellow out at all.

Thanks in advance

Dene

I didn't realize smudge's still had tray-like devices inside
the column.  I tend to get glassy eyed when the messages
start ranting :P  I just assumed the column was empty
and the only refining of the alcohol was from
condensation/revaporization on the column walls
(rather inefficient).  What do the plates look like inside
the column?  I'd be interested in seeing the design.

I disagree slightly on the point made about "if it works
for you then that's good enough".  I have a still that
works perfectly well for me, but I want it to work BETTER!
I'd be glad to have someone tell me how to make my still
better, faster, more efficient, or easier to run.  That's
how this art gets improved.

My 3 cents (inflation)
-A

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
<homedistiller@y...> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> Smudge did also send his plans to me. His pictures, drawings and
> information were the primary reason for me to wonder about you
> defining his still as a pot still.
>
> My remarks:
>
> 1) Packing.
> Is the use of packing conditional to have a reflux still ?
> Smudge uses no packing, but so many industrial columns don't use
> packing, they have trays instead. Smudge's still has a tall and
wide
> column and it has many horizontal plates, placed so, that they
> function like simple trays. His still does not operate on single
> stage reflux as a pot still, but does definitely so in several
> stages.
> How otherwise could he obtain that purity ?
>
> 2) Uninsulated
> Is the use of insulation conditional to speak of a reflux still ?
> One must create reflux somewhere. With his design, he heats up his
> room to create reflux, others will heat up the drain with warm
water.
>
> 3) As far as asking Smudge to publish his design to the group: I'm
> sure you read some of the posts adressed to Smudge. Would you
> comfortably share ideas with people who prefer to see you in an
> asylum ?
>
> Mike, don't take me wrong about my remarks. For personal use, I
would
> probably modify Smudge's design. I would extend the column to have
> more stages (less reflux needed), I would insulate it and would
> create the traditional reflux outside of the column etc.
>
> BUT, I appreciate Smudge's ideas about controlling the still with
the
> temperature sensor on top and I very much admire his polite,
> steadfast and scientific attitude with which he defends his
> experiments. I have no problems at all with knowledgeable people
> saying "I win" when they win.
>
> Sincerely,
> Dirk
>
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
> > homedistiller wrote:
> > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Goats and other rubbish
> >
> > I'm still very puzzled about Mike Nixon calling your still a pot
> still !?
> > =====================================
> > I call it a pot still because the column contains no packing and
> because it is uninsulated, both of which are features that define a
> reflux still.  Smudge has kindly sent me details of its
construction.
>  The feature that makes it a "better" pot still is that he has
> devised a way of getting the reflux that condenses on the
uninsulated
> walls away from them by a series of plates that direct the reflux to
> the centre of the column.  This reduces the amount of cooling and
> promotes further re-evaporation.  It is a good technique.
> >
> > You might ask Smudge to publish his design to this Group, and you
> will see what I mean.  His design, his privilege.
> >
> > Mike N

There are epoxies formulated for metal. Even 'Araldite' can be used.
Wal
--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
>
> Please do not use epoxy. Some epoxies soften during high temp
operations. Besides epoxy is a slow acting toxin. Sounds good: "Epoxy-
Toxin"
>  waljaco <waljaco@h...> wrote: Re: Cost
> I just bought 1500mm of 50mm diam. copper ($AU47), 1500mm of 13mm
> diam tube ($AU7), a T connector, 2 reducers, insulation for about
> $AU100. I intend to use an epoxy resin to seal the sections. Where
is
> the cost advantage in 'polypipe' over copper?
> Wal
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Denehy" <greg@t...> wrote:
> > Hi there,
> > You may have been watching threads about my plastic still.
> > Here are some preliminary pics.
> >
> > It will cost about $AUS100 + boiler + thermometer to make or buy.
> > It is portable, simple and produces rock solid performance at 95%+
> >
> > If you are interested in more details, email me...
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > **********************
> >   Veni    Vedi    Velcro
> >   I came.  I saw.  I got stuck.
> > **********************
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
> To unsubscribe from this group send an email to  distillers-
unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> I can be wrong I must say
> Cheers, Alex...
> A
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more

Obviously pictures speak better than words!
Re: Insulation
Commercial stills using plates do not have insulation. Do they
compensate by using more power?
Wal

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "nanosleep" <nanosleep@y...> wrote:
> I didn't realize smudge's still had tray-like devices inside
> the column.  I tend to get glassy eyed when the messages
> start ranting :P  I just assumed the column was empty
> and the only refining of the alcohol was from
> condensation/revaporization on the column walls
> (rather inefficient).  What do the plates look like inside
> the column?  I'd be interested in seeing the design.
>
> I disagree slightly on the point made about "if it works
> for you then that's good enough".  I have a still that
> works perfectly well for me, but I want it to work BETTER!
> I'd be glad to have someone tell me how to make my still
> better, faster, more efficient, or easier to run.  That's
> how this art gets improved.
>
> My 3 cents (inflation)
> -A
>
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
> <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > Smudge did also send his plans to me. His pictures, drawings and
> > information were the primary reason for me to wonder about you
> > defining his still as a pot still.
> >
> > My remarks:
> >
> > 1) Packing.
> > Is the use of packing conditional to have a reflux still ?
> > Smudge uses no packing, but so many industrial columns don't use
> > packing, they have trays instead. Smudge's still has a tall and
> wide
> > column and it has many horizontal plates, placed so, that they
> > function like simple trays. His still does not operate on single
> > stage reflux as a pot still, but does definitely so in several
> > stages.
> > How otherwise could he obtain that purity ?
> >
> > 2) Uninsulated
> > Is the use of insulation conditional to speak of a reflux still ?
> > One must create reflux somewhere. With his design, he heats up his
> > room to create reflux, others will heat up the drain with warm
> water.
> >
> > 3) As far as asking Smudge to publish his design to the group: I'm
> > sure you read some of the posts adressed to Smudge. Would you
> > comfortably share ideas with people who prefer to see you in an
> > asylum ?
> >
> > Mike, don't take me wrong about my remarks. For personal use, I
> would
> > probably modify Smudge's design. I would extend the column to have
> > more stages (less reflux needed), I would insulate it and would
> > create the traditional reflux outside of the column etc.
> >
> > BUT, I appreciate Smudge's ideas about controlling the still with
> the
> > temperature sensor on top and I very much admire his polite,
> > steadfast and scientific attitude with which he defends his
> > experiments. I have no problems at all with knowledgeable people
> > saying "I win" when they win.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Dirk
> >
> > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
> > > homedistiller wrote:
> > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Goats and other rubbish
> > >
> > > I'm still very puzzled about Mike Nixon calling your still a pot
> > still !?
> > > =====================================
> > > I call it a pot still because the column contains no packing and
> > because it is uninsulated, both of which are features that define
a
> > reflux still.  Smudge has kindly sent me details of its
> construction.
> >  The feature that makes it a "better" pot still is that he has
> > devised a way of getting the reflux that condenses on the
> uninsulated
> > walls away from them by a series of plates that direct the reflux
to
> > the centre of the column.  This reduces the amount of cooling and
> > promotes further re-evaporation.  It is a good technique.
> > >
> > > You might ask Smudge to publish his design to this Group, and
you
> > will see what I mean.  His design, his privilege.
> > >
> > > Mike N

For those who want a scientific approach to what's in their
distillate.
http://www.restekcorp.com/2002/1571P.pdf

Wal

At 95%abv you have (or should have) a flavorless vodka. Rum is
usually produced by a double distillation i.e. about 75%abv. It is
usual to age arak, grappa for at least 3 months to mellow the taste,
so first wait. Oak chips quantity is usually 2-5g/l, soak for several
weeks (use taste test), and add 1 tsp of burnt sugar, or just
redistill...
Wal
--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "deno752002" <waterline@o...>
wrote:
>
> I've been thinking about the rum I made the other day that turned
out
> crap and have a bit more background and a few theories of my own.
>
> The wash was 8kg of straight sweet molasses diluted down to an SG
of
> 1.10 which fermented out to 1.05 giving a total alcohol in the wash
of
> 7% using bread yeast.
>
> My theory on why the taste and smell is so strong is because in
> distilling the wash, I was concentrating that 7% up to 95% but
along
> with the alcohol I was concentrating the already strong flavours
and
> smells by a factor of about 13 times as well.
>
> Does it work like that??
>
> I've just started another brew with a heap less molasses (only
> 800grams or so) and the rest 4kg of raw sugar and 2 kg of white
sugar
> and still spirits turbo yeast. This should ferment out to about 19%
so
> when I distill it, it will get concentrated by a factor of only
about
> 5 times.
>
> Therefore according to my (possibly complete bullshit) theory - it
> should have a mellower taste and smell.
>
> Any thoughts??
>
> > Put it on oak, forget about it for a year,
>
> That's the plan with the stuff I did the other day at this stage. I
> also thought that I could chuck it in with a straight sugar wash
and
> run it through the still again to see if things mellow out at all.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Dene

Hi Dene, Hi Group,

I've not posted here before but I have been reading your experiences
with the "crap" Rum with great interest.  I am in the process of
fermenting my first wash, which is a Rum as well.

Having read some of your theories, below, I was wondering if I might
be so bold as to make a few inputs as well that may help.  From an
experience point of view, I started making wines about 20 years ago,
homebrewing beer 14 years ago, and currently own and operate a
Microbrewery for the past 9 years.  I am also an Engineer by trade.
I know quite a bit about fermentation but have never distilled.

My Rum wash is made from (2) U.S. gallons of light unsulphured
molasses, (25) lbs of white sugar, water, (2) tablespoons Gypsum, and
(2) packages of Alcotec "48 Hour Turbo Yeast".  I added water to make
up to 14 gallons total liquid volume (including the molasses).  I
sanitized everything using iodifor.  After disolving and mixing in my
25 gallon fermenter, I aerated the wash for (1) hour using an
aquarium pump and air stone (sanitized in the iodifor first and
rinsed) with the yeast added.  Starting gravity was 1.138.

In the Brewing industry, rapid aeration of the wort at the beginning
produces more daughter cells, with fewer cell wall scars, and hence
fewer yeast esters in the ferment.  Since we use food grade oxygen,
we can blast it in during the transfer between the heat exchanger and
the fermenter just prior to yeast injection.  As I don't happen to
have a bottle of pure oxygen sitting around in my basement kitchen, I
opted for the aquarium pump and just let it run for a while (air is
only 20.947% oxygen and 78.084% nitrogen).  The pump and stone cost
about $12 - $13 U.S.

Did I read that you used all molasses?  I also see that you'll be
changing that in the future.  Molasses, though I love its rich, dark
flavor is full of solids that are not fermentable and produce
a "false gravity" as it were.  This would partially account for
the .05 s.g. drop (1.100 - 1.050), whohc would be higher if white
sugar were used to a greater extent.  We use molasses in our Porter
recipe, but only a bit for flavor.  This is why I leaned so heavily
on the white sugar in my wash........so I could predict where I would
end up in alcohol percentage.

Another item, which you have diagnosed already as well, is switching
over to a "Turbo" variety of yeast.  Good choice, as even I'm
impressed with its ability to start quickly and maintain a clean
ferment.  Bread yeast is great for rising bread but a terrible
performer for fermentation and produces a lot of "fall-out" in the
form of esters and undesireables.  I remember once trying to use it
to make bottled Root Beer years ago for a friend..........yuch!
Very "yeasty"!  Since it is a poor performer, the .05 s.g. drop was
probably due to some of this as well.
Note that the "Turbo" products don't produce as fast as they
advertise, but I've not heard anyone complain about their ability to
create alcohol, just their time.
When I make a Single Malt in the near future, I'll use a big pitch of
Brewer's Yeast right off the active fermenter.  We've found our
strain will reach 11.5%, but I'll try to keep it down to around 9% -
10% and pitch a LOT of yeast.

Now, I can't make recommendations on what I haven't witnessed with
regards to alcohol, but while testing my homemade "water purifier"
still, I filled it with (10) gallons of water from my garden hose.
When I was a boy, we'ld drink water from the hose all the time.  I
guess I'd forgotten about that crappy plastic / rubbery taste you get
from them.
Well, while running my water batches that plastic tase did indeed
come over in my distillate, which I found even more intensified and
plastic / rubbery than before.  My point is that if you start with a
wash that has a few issues, you end up with those issues intensified
in the distillate.
Though my "purifier" is made to accept either my copper swan
neck/condenser or my stainless reflux tower, I prefer fuller flavors
and will probably lean more on my swan neck and distill it twice.  By
going through all the technical requirements for fermentation, I'm
hoping to minimize the "crap" flavors coming across.

I hope there's a pearl of wisdom in here for you, Dene!  When I
started homebrewing, I made this Raspberry Wheat Beer that tasted
like Windex window cleaner!  It was sort of a reddish pus color and I
bottled it anyway.  I forgot about it for a year (that magic number,
I reckon) and threw them in the beer fridge for a few weeks.  When I
cracked them open for for friends who were jonesin' for a beer I was
STUNNED to learn that the pus colored windex crap had become a
delicate ruby raspberry wheat that was crystal clear and perfect.
Like hurt feelings, time heels all wounds.....and many bad tasting
homemade beverages.

I'll keep you posted as to if I ruin this thing of beauty in the next
room.  I started it on Sunday, it began fermenting that evening, at
O'G. - 1.138 and as of this writing it's at 1.070 and still chugging
along.  I snuck a slurp and at 9% I could have a glass even with the
yeast!

Sorry so long winded.  Good luck!

B

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "deno752002" <waterline@o...>
wrote:
>
> I've been thinking about the rum I made the other day that turned
out
> crap and have a bit more background and a few theories of my own.
>
> The wash was 8kg of straight sweet molasses diluted down to an SG
of
> 1.10 which fermented out to 1.05 giving a total alcohol in the wash
of
> 7% using bread yeast.
>
> My theory on why the taste and smell is so strong is because in
> distilling the wash, I was concentrating that 7% up to 95% but
along
> with the alcohol I was concentrating the already strong flavours
and
> smells by a factor of about 13 times as well.
>
> Does it work like that??
>
> I've just started another brew with a heap less molasses (only
> 800grams or so) and the rest 4kg of raw sugar and 2 kg of white
sugar
> and still spirits turbo yeast. This should ferment out to about 19%
so
> when I distill it, it will get concentrated by a factor of only
about
> 5 times.
>
> Therefore according to my (possibly complete bullshit) theory - it
> should have a mellower taste and smell.
>
> Any thoughts??
>
> > Put it on oak, forget about it for a year,
>
> That's the plan with the stuff I did the other day at this stage. I
> also thought that I could chuck it in with a straight sugar wash
and
> run it through the still again to see if things mellow out at all.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Dene

The pods from the carob tree (Ceratonia siliqua) are used to make a
liqueur in Portugal (Licor de alfarroba) and Italy (Carubo digestivo).
Found a recipe for a 'Licor de algarroba' from Argentina using white
wine but a 30%bv alcohol could be used. The pods contain about 50%
sugar, so not too much additional sugar is needed.
(http://www.agora.com.ar/prueba/p151at.htm)

Carob Liqueur
1 litre alcohol (30%bv)
200 g of carob pods
100 g sugar
Macerate for 4 weeks, strain and bottle.

Wal

> At 95%abv you have (or should have) a flavorless vodka.

That's definately not the case so there's that theory out the window.
There was a discussion here a few weeks ago about how flavour and
purity are not necessarilly inter-related.

> Oak chips quantity is usually 2-5g/l,
> soak for several weeks (use taste test),
> and add 1 tsp of burnt sugar,........

That's what I'm doing at the moment so we'll see if it's save-able.

Dene

> I shall take this as a signal that
> I am now well past my dotage time
> and retire gracefully from
> participation in the group.


Gees, talk about falling on your sword or commitiing hari kari!!
I'm sure the whole world will forgive you for this great crime against
humanity.

Speaking for myself here, I'd much rather have you as a participant of
this group than not.

Your choice of course but there's no real need for a melodramatic
departure when a sincere apology as you've made should be enough.

I'm sure most people here have benefited in some way from your
contributions to this group as I know I sure have.

Regards

Dene

Interesting reaction
First point: If there is an apology to be made I'd say its between you and
Smudge !!!!!
Ok maybe not a lot of people understand Smudge but since when is making
people try to think a crime.
Political correctness should be a crime
best thing about this group is we can have a "virtual drink" together
please come back Mike I miss you "sob"
did that sound sincere?

see you next post Mike & Smudge

Cheers from Roweesbar
Brian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nixon" <mike@...>
To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:53 PM
Subject: [Distillers] Abject apologies


May I apologise publicly to all, and particularly Smudge.
I have just seen that an email to Dirk that I had though was person to
person was published on the list.
I said a couple of unkind things about Smudge that I would never have
knowingly published openly, and I tender my sincere apologies to him if I
have offended.

I shall take this as a signal that I am now well past my dotage time and
retire gracefully from participation in the group.  You can all do with a
good rest from stupid idiots like me who are tactless and rude.

It has been fun, and I shall miss you, but I think that this is for the
best.

Mike N

On Tony's site I found a remark about the influence of the pot
temperature on the final taste of rum.

The info is on a pictures page:
http://homedistiller.org/photos-reflux.htm

It says:
Pot Temperature: Measured on the lid for a better idea of the steam
temp as this is the portion that is most critical. By keeping the
temperature between 198-206 degrees F (92-96C), we are
able to tell when the wert is getting too hot and giving us that
'Brackish' smell that can be calmed with carbon filtering
but never quite goes away. Now, Mike and I have slightly different
opinions on the tails aspect but we do agree that the
burning of the wert is what was making the first few batches of rum a
little on the unpalatable side. We bit the bullet and drank it
anyway but with the new numbers, we have made a very flavourful rum
product. Final flavouring with cloves and cinnamon
will be the defining bit. When the lid temp reaches 208F (98C), shut
down the still. I know, there is more to come but I found a +4 degree
variation between the lid and the boiler body.
As soon as the boiler body hits 212 (100), the wert started to burn
and that... smell... came through into the product.

Greetings,

Dirk

Offended someone ?

Mike, I don't think you told things that you wouldn't have said to
Smudge also. There was no talking behind the back.

Besides this, I'm sure Smudge can handle your kind of talking. He
seems to be the kind of guy that enjoys a little fight once in a
while.

And as Brian Rowe said in his mail: It is political correctness that
should be a crime.

Sincerely,
Dirk




--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
> May I apologise publicly to all, and particularly Smudge.
> I have just seen that an email to Dirk that I had though was person
to person was published on the list.
> I said a couple of unkind things about Smudge that I would never
have knowingly published openly, and I tender my sincere apologies to
him if I have offended.
>
> I shall take this as a signal that I am now well past my dotage
time and retire gracefully from participation in the group.  You can
all do with a good rest from stupid idiots like me who are tactless
and rude.
>
> It has been fun, and I shall miss you, but I think that this is for
the best.
>
> Mike N

Hi all,
I also follow, with interest, the "pipe column" experiments.
On the next page, it says that a single, (insulated of course!) open
tube column of 6 mm (.25 inch) has a plate height of 80 cm for a
throughput of 10 ml/minute.

http://ull.chemistry.uakron.edu/chemsep/slide.html$Chapter=/chemsep/
distillation/&Last=34&Slide=31

I was thinking of just stretching a thin polypropylene rope, copper
electricity wire, stainless steel cable (2 or 3 mm diameter ?) inside
this column.
The slightest obstruction inside this pipe would instantly reduce the
plate height and thus create many more stages for the same length of
pipe. It would increase the contact surface, would reduce the
downward velocity of the reflux and a rope or a cable can be easily
removed for cleaning purposes.

As Mike Nixon proposed already in an earlier post, similar of those
"pipe columns" can be bundled in parallel.

Dirk




--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
> peter_vcb wrote:
> Subject: [Distillers] Re: Reflux Valve = Temperature Controller (?)
>
> hi Mike
> makes lots of sense, thanks. i did an excel file after i posted
yesterday to see the variance in the ratio just like you mention. i
> got different ratios than you (i used mm)  .....
> ============================
> Hi Peter,
> The way I figured it, the circumference of a cylinder diameter D is
(Pi)D, so the surface area is(Pi)DL
> The volume of that cylinder is (Pi)D2L/4
> so the ratio of surface area/volume came to 4(Pi)DL / (Pi)D2L  ....
or 4/D
> Snag is, the dimensions of this are "per length" so yes, the number
you get will indeed depend on what units you use, so it's better to
get rid of that length by comparing different tubes to get a
dimensionless number.
>
> So if we compare tube A with diameter Da with tube B with diameter
Db we get TubeA/Tube B = Db/Da
> Suppose Tube A is 1/4 inches diameter and tube B is 2 inches
diameter, we get Db/Da = 2*4 = 8
> In metric terms ... Tube A is 1/4 * 25.5 mm diameter and tube B is
2 * 25.4 mm diameter, and the ratio is again 8.
> In words, Tube A has 8 times as much surface area per volume than
tube B
>
> Better?
> Mike N

Mike,
yep i was working the same way using mm and using a standard length
of 1m.
so do you think Johans coiled copper tube idea would work as well or
even better? if coiled the cooled vapour will flow down the tube
whereas if it is vertical it may fall straight down and the tube may
experience less wetting of the available surface. conversely it will
only flow on the lower section of the tube so vertical may be better.
if a coiled one would work it would easier to use indoors you could
have 10metres coiled to a low height. it could coil up fully
insulated and coil back down over itself with a fan blowing on it. i
still have this idea of a nice efficient radiator in my room pumping
out booze all day and keeping me warm :-)

if it scaled up perfectly (i know it wont) a 2" column would need to
be 6m high to work the same as the 1/2" 1.5m column. the cross
section area of a 2" column is 16 times that of a 1/2" column. so to
run at the same power i would need 16 columns at 1.5m which is 24m of
1/2" tube (56euro to me) compared to 6m of 2" tube (105euro). so has
anybody heard of a very high column run with no scrubbers? cheaper
than copper of s/s would be scaffolding poles. you could get 6m very
cheap and redistill the output to leave the nasties behind.

Peter


--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
> peter_vcb wrote:
> Subject: [Distillers] Re: Reflux Valve = Temperature Controller (?)
>
> hi Mike
> makes lots of sense, thanks. i did an excel file after i posted
yesterday to see the variance in the ratio just like you mention. i
> got different ratios than you (i used mm)  .....
> ============================
> Hi Peter,
> The way I figured it, the circumference of a cylinder diameter D is
(Pi)D, so the surface area is(Pi)DL
> The volume of that cylinder is (Pi)D2L/4
> so the ratio of surface area/volume came to 4(Pi)DL / (Pi)D2L  ....
or 4/D
> Snag is, the dimensions of this are "per length" so yes, the number
you get will indeed depend on what units you use, so it's better to
get rid of that length by comparing different tubes to get a
dimensionless number.
>
> So if we compare tube A with diameter Da with tube B with diameter
Db we get TubeA/Tube B = Db/Da
> Suppose Tube A is 1/4 inches diameter and tube B is 2 inches
diameter, we get Db/Da = 2*4 = 8
> In metric terms ... Tube A is 1/4 * 25.5 mm diameter and tube B is
2 * 25.4 mm diameter, and the ratio is again 8.
> In words, Tube A has 8 times as much surface area per volume than
tube B
>
> Better?
> Mike N

How does everyone cool their cooling water?  (In a recirculating system.)
Has anyone come up with a good and cheap solution?  I use an old evaporative
cooler as the pump and cooler, that works well.

Greg

**********************
   Veni    Vedi    Velcro
I came.  I saw.  I got stuck.
**********************