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#9285 From: Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...>
Date: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:02 am
Subject: Re: Climategate: Barack Obama's rule by EPA decree is a coup d'etat against Congress, made in Britain
vincent.cataldi
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For those who strive to separate science from fiction, perhaps this will help you do some research on your own, and bypass our censored science.


Vince

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...> wrote:
Anne:

The Post of a news story does not imply or state complete endorsement of all content therein - you make assumptions quite quickly.  That Newspaper had the courage to report news of the Copenhagen Treaty Summit, while our 'free press' sat on its' hands doing nothing.

I see judgmental and intolerant censorship as flawed some - freedom of the press is a higher right; I fight for people to express 'incorrect opinions' too. 

Tolerance was an American value, which I treasure. Please Anne: what is your cup of tea?  Offer something constructive.

Vince (AKA - your wacko)

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Anne <anne@...> wrote:
 

Why is this anti-American crap being posted on the DFW list?  I think you've mistaken us for the tea party chuckleheads.

The last paragraph of the wacko posting linked below is as follows:

"Obama hates America and, increasingly, that sentiment is being reciprocated. This is a socialist, World Government putsch. Have the American people the resolution to resist it? We shall soon know."

There are plenty of places that welcome deranged science-hating, Obama-hating nonsense, but this group isn't it.

AMS

Vincent J Cataldi wrote:

 

Climategate: Barack Obama's rule by EPA decree is a coup d'etat against Congress, made in Britain

Who needs tanks on the lawn when you have the Environmental Protection Agency? Barack Obama's use of the EPA to pressurise the Senate to pass his climate change Nuremberg Decrees shows his dictatorial mentality. He wants to override Congress, which is hostile to his climate gobbledegook because it is representative of the American electorate, and sideline the nation's elected Senators by ruling by decree, courtesy of the EPA. This is a coup d��tat.

And what is the justification for this undemocratic action? The allegedly imminent threat from "Anthropogenic Global Warming"�. There is always a supposed threat, when tyrants take the stage. The President of the United States has just reduced his moral authority to the level of any Third World dictator heading a "Government of National Emergency". Fortunately, the world's leading democracy, which he is trying to subvert, has guarantees of liberty so deeply embedded in its Constitution that US citizens are well placed to fight back.



-- (\_/)
(=’.'=)
(”)_(”)




#9284 From: Keith Schmitz <schmitzpr@...>
Date: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 am
Subject: Re: Sensenbrenner Existence Firm Evidence Against Intelligent Design
krshorewood
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Where did all this trollishness come from?


On Dec 9, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Marti Abernathey wrote:

Must be the work of Satan. 

On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@gmail.com> wrote:
 

Junk Science Exposed In Evolutionary Theory

by Babu G. Ranganathan

Millions of high school and college biology textbooks teach that research scientist Stanley Miller, in the 1950's, showed how life could have arisen by chance. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Miller, in his famous experiment in 1953, showed that individual amino acids (the building blocks of life) could come into existence by chance. But, it's not enough just to have amino acids. The various amino acids that make-up life must link together in a precise sequence, just like the letters in a sentence, to form functioning protein molecules. If they're not in the right sequence the protein molecules won't work. It has never been shown that various amino acids can bind together into a sequence by chance to form protein molecules. Even the simplest cell is made up of many millions of various protein molecules.

Full Story:  http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/07-12-2009/110962-evolution-0

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 11:03 PM, Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@gmail.com> wrote:
Anne:

You may be right, but I can not understand what you're saying.

So - I'll guess:

We all have the right to be wrong, beliefs and all included;
but our elected officials have no right to lack courage today.  

Vince


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Anne <anne@spurgeonwoods.com> wrote:
 

I'm just sayin'

Vincent J Cataldi wrote:

 
Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of Scientific Fascism
Yes - a man with courage !  Vince

Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of Scientific Fascism

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Agence France-Presse
December 4, 2009

A row over leaked emails from a British scientist hinting at a global warming cover-up has reached the US Congress, where climate change skeptics are seeking to thwart key legislation.

featured stories Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of Scientific Fascism

British Professor Phil Jones has stood aside as director of the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, after his emails calling into question the scientific basis for climate change fears were leaked.

Hackers had penetrated the centers network and posted online thousands of emails from researchers, including Jones, ahead of a landmark Copenhagen summit which opens next week.

The leader of a US group of so-called climatology skeptics, Republican Representative James Sensenbrenner, said if the emails are genuine it is very disturbing because they call into question the whole science of climate change.

Read entire article



-- (\_/)
(=.'=)
()_()







#9283 From: Marti Abernathey <marti.abernathey@...>
Date: Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:28 am
Subject: Re: Sensenbrenner Existence Firm Evidence Against Intelligent Design
mzmartipants
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Must be the work of Satan.

On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...> wrote:

Junk Science Exposed In Evolutionary Theory

by Babu G. Ranganathan

Millions of high school and college biology textbooks teach that research scientist Stanley Miller, in the 1950's, showed how life could have arisen by chance. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Miller, in his famous experiment in 1953, showed that individual amino acids (the building blocks of life) could come into existence by chance. But, it's not enough just to have amino acids. The various amino acids that make-up life must link together in a precise sequence, just like the letters in a sentence, to form functioning protein molecules. If they're not in the right sequence the protein molecules won't work. It has never been shown that various amino acids can bind together into a sequence by chance to form protein molecules. Even the simplest cell is made up of many millions of various protein molecules.

Full Story: http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/07-12-2009/110962-evolution-0

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 11:03 PM, Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...> wrote:
Anne:

You may be right, but I can not understand what you're saying.

So - I'll guess:

We all have the right to be wrong, beliefs and all included;
but our elected officials have no right to lack courage today.

Vince


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Anne <anne@...> wrote:

I'm just sayin'

Vincent J Cataldi wrote:

Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of ScientificFascism
Yes - a man with courage ! Vince

Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of Scientific Fascism

  • Text size
  • Larger
  • Smaller

Agence France-Presse
December 4, 2009

A row over leaked emails from a British scientist hinting at a global warming cover-up has reached the US Congress, where climate change skeptics are seeking to thwart key legislation.

featured stories Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of Scientific Fascism

British Professor Phil Jones has stood aside as director of the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, after his emails calling into question the scientific basis for climate change fears were leaked.

Hackers had penetrated the centers network and posted online thousands of emails from researchers, including Jones, ahead of a landmark Copenhagen summit which opens next week.

The leader of a US group of so-called climatology skeptics, Republican Representative James Sensenbrenner, said if the emails are genuine it is very disturbing because they call into question the whole science of climate change.

Read entire article



-- (\_/)
(=.'=)
()_()





#9282 From: Ted <laketilton@...>
Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 11:43 pm
Subject: Climate Change.
laketilton
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I believe we are experiencing Climate Change.  As far as I know it is a constantly changing thing in both the short term and the long term, and can have disastrous results.  I am not sure on the causes of it.  Some people think it is mostly man-made due to our burning of fossil fuels and producing Carbon Dioxide.  Others say the sun goes through cycles as well as the movement of everything in space, be it orbits of planets and solar systems etc, that can have an effect.  I have never heard of the Earth causing the oceans to change temperatures from the bottom up, but I suppose that could be possible since the core of the Earth is made of molten material and causes volcanoes to erupt from time to time.  I am skeptical though of some of the solutions being put forth recently.  I always preferred the old solutions of Planting more trees, cleaning up the environment, and working on and funding alternative forms of energy.  Taxing a natural gas doesn't seem too smart in my opinion.  Here are some articles I've recently found to be good...

1)

Head of California's Cap and Trade Offsets Program: Cap and Trade Won't Work for Climate, It's a Scam


Paul Krugman argues that cap and trade worked to reduce sulfur dioxide and stop acid rain, and so it will work to reduce C02.

However, two EPA lawyers with more than 40 years of cumulative experience - including the guy who has been head of California's cap and trade offset programs for more than 20 years - say that sulfur dioxide was different, and that cap and trade for climate is a scam which only benefits the financial players.


and 2)


Woman Who Invented Credit Default Swaps is One of the Key Architects of Carbon Derivatives, Which Would Be at the Very CENTER of Cap and Trade

Now, Bloomberg notes that the carbon trading scheme will be largely centered around derivatives:

The banks are preparing to do with carbon what they’ve done before: design and market derivatives contracts that will help client companies hedge their price risk over the long term. They’re also ready to sell carbon-related financial products to outside investors.

[Blythe] Masters says banks must be allowed to lead the way if a mandatory carbon-trading system is going to help save the planet at the lowest possible cost. And derivatives related to carbon must be part of the mix, she says. Derivatives are securities whose value is derived from the value of an underlying commodity -- in this case, CO2 and other greenhouse gases...

Who is Blythe Masters?

She is the JP Morgan employee who invented credit default swaps, and is now heading JPM's carbon trading efforts.

Click on the title links to read more...







#9281 From: Marti Abernathey <marti.abernathey@...>
Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 9:41 pm
Subject: Re: Climategate
mzmartipants
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When someone claims to hold the truth to a question I tend to want to believe them. In my own life I want truth more than anything, so I my nature is to want to believe what people say. In fourth grade Ricky Crawford told me that his father worked at NASA and that his father had told him secretly that aliens from Pluto were attacking and would be here in three days. For three days I cried a lot, hid a a lot and waited for news to break thaat the aliens were attacking. When I realized that I'd been tricked, I trusted other people a lot less.

I've found consistently through my life that though I want to believe what people say, I have to dig down and see if there is a more sinister or politically motivated reason underneath. Many people (Christian creationists, for example) start with a belief and amass data to support their belief while dismissing anything that doesn't support their beliefs.

The Science and Public Policy Institute sounds as credible in the same way that President Bush's Clear Skies Initiative. According to SourceWatch wiki:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Science_and_Public_Policy_Institute

"The Science and Public Policy Institute (SPPI) is a global warming skeptics group which appears to primarily be the work of Robert Ferguson, its President"

"Prior to founding SPPI in approximately mid-2007, Ferguson was the Executive Director of the Center for Science and Public Policy (CSPP), a project of the corporate-funded group, the Frontiers of Freedom Institute."

The Frontiers of Freedom Institute:

"Since our founding, Frontiers has grown from a start-up organization with big ideas to a preeminent think tank that is making a real and tangible difference advancing common sense ideas for government. One of our greatest sources of pride has been our position on the front lines in the battle to make a national missile defense system a reality. Our efforts earned us a seat across the table, literally, from President Bush on the day he announced our withdrawal from the ABM Treaty. In addition, we have both provided and received briefings from Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and his Deputy Paul Dundes Wolfowitz. We are proud to be considered an asset to the national security community during these times of serious global insecurity."

FoF groups its work under the banner of six "policy centers":

and recieve funding by:

Philip Morris Cos, ExxonMobil and RJ Reynolds Tobacco.

Even if you look past the the dubious past of the founder, the "science" relies heavily on the work of Christopher Monckton who:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Christopher_Monckton

"is the third Viscount Monckton of Brenchley and a former policy advisor to Margaret Thatcher during her years as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom."

who is a media darling of the right wing:

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/6783/

A post about one of his published works at the Guardian makes the point better than I can:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/nov/14/science.comment

"Published in two parts on consecutive Sundays, it runs to a total of 52 pages, containing graphs, tables and references. To my correspondents, to a good many journalists and to thousands of delighted bloggers, this paper clinches it: climate change is a hoax perpetrated by a leftwing conspiracy coordinated by the United Nations.

So which was the august journal that published it? Science? Nature? Geophysical Research Letters? Not quite. It was the Sunday Telegraph. In keeping with most of the articles about climate change in that publication, it is a mixture of cherry-picking, downright misrepresentation and pseudo-scientific gibberish. But it has the virtue of being incomprehensible to anyone who is not an atmospheric physicist.

The author of this "research article" is Christopher Monckton, otherwise known as Viscount Monckton of Brenchley. He has a degree in classics and a diploma in journalism and, as far as I can tell, no further qualifications. But he is confident enough to maintain that - by contrast to all those charlatans and amateurs who wrote the reports produced by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change - he is publishing 'the truth' "

and

"A scientific paper is one published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. This means it has been subject to scrutiny by other experts in the field. This doesn't suggest that it's the last word on the subject, but it does mean it is worth discussing. For newspapers such as the Sunday Telegraph the test seems to be much simpler. If they don't understand it, it must be science."
I'm always dubious of anyone that claims to have "the truth". IMO, the truth is something to be eternally searched for, but never found in total. But at the very core of any honest search for truth is a commitment to follow the facts to wherever they lead, even if it's to a place you don't think it should or would.

Or we could listen to the Ricky Crawfords' of the world.....

On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:35 PM, russwallac <russwallac@...> wrote:

Anthropomorphic global warming deniers are the same sort of people who pretended there wasn't a link between smoking and lung cancer. No amount of science will ever convince them of the reality of global warming because their beliefs are based on ideology, not reason. Unfortunately, as with the smoking-cancer link, such people are easily manipulated by groups with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

I've gone through most of the CRU emails, and I have enough of a scientific background to evaluate their significance. There's little there other than a bunch of scientists being human and occasionally petty when they thought nobody would notice. Realclimate has by far the best discussions on the issues, and if anybody wants to debate me on this please read them first so you can make your points intelligently. I know it's a lot of information to digest, but if you're not willing to do your homework you'll just be wasting everybody's time.

The theft of the CRU emails appears to be part of a larger, and likely organized, effort to attack climate science. There have recently been several other attempts, both physical and electronic, to break into computers, labs, and offices of climate scientists, as well as what amounts to outright bribe attempts to get climate scientists to write skeptical papers. This shows how determined deniers are to delay any public policy changes. Changes that might, coincidentally, negatively impact the profits of the exact same corporations that fund the denial effort.

Sort of reminds you of certain tobacco companies, doesn't it.

Russell Wallace



#9280 From: Anne <anne@...>
Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 11:02 pm
Subject: Re: Climategate: Barack Obama's rule by EPA decree is a coup d'etat against Congress, made in Britain
nu1986ams
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Why is this anti-American crap being posted on the DFW list?  I think you've mistaken us for the tea party chuckleheads.

The last paragraph of the wacko posting linked below is as follows:

"Obama hates America and, increasingly, that sentiment is being reciprocated. This is a socialist, World Government putsch. Have the American people the resolution to resist it? We shall soon know."

There are plenty of places that welcome deranged science-hating, Obama-hating nonsense, but this group isn't it.

AMS

Vincent J Cataldi wrote:
 

Climategate: Barack Obama's rule by EPA decree is a coup d'etat against Congress, made in Britain

Who needs tanks on the lawn when you have the Environmental Protection Agency? Barack Obama's use of the EPA to pressurise the Senate to pass his climate change Nuremberg Decrees shows his dictatorial mentality. He wants to override Congress, which is hostile to his climate gobbledegook because it is representative of the American electorate, and sideline the nation's elected Senators by ruling by decree, courtesy of the EPA. This is a coup d��tat.

And what is the justification for this undemocratic action? The allegedly imminent threat from "Anthropogenic Global Warming"�. There is always a supposed threat, when tyrants take the stage. The President of the United States has just reduced his moral authority to the level of any Third World dictator heading a "Government of National Emergency". Fortunately, the world's leading democracy, which he is trying to subvert, has guarantees of liberty so deeply embedded in its Constitution that US citizens are well placed to fight back.




-- (\_/)
(=’.'=)
(”)_(”)

#9279 From: Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...>
Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 5:10 am
Subject: Climategate: Barack Obama's rule by EPA decree is a coup d'etat against Congress, made in Britain
vincent.cataldi
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Climategate: Barack Obama's rule by EPA decree is a coup d'etat against Congress, made in Britain

Who needs tanks on the lawn when you have the Environmental Protection Agency? Barack Obama's use of the EPA to pressurise the Senate to pass his climate change Nuremberg Decrees shows his dictatorial mentality. He wants to override Congress, which is hostile to his climate gobbledegook because it is representative of the American electorate, and sideline the nation's elected Senators by ruling by decree, courtesy of the EPA. This is a coup dtat.

And what is the justification for this undemocratic action? The allegedly imminent threat from "Anthropogenic Global Warming". There is always a supposed threat, when tyrants take the stage. The President of the United States has just reduced his moral authority to the level of any Third World dictator heading a "Government of National Emergency". Fortunately, the world's leading democracy, which he is trying to subvert, has guarantees of liberty so deeply embedded in its Constitution that US citizens are well placed to fight back.



#9278 From: Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...>
Date: Tue Dec 8, 2009 2:41 am
Subject: What to Base the New Currency On?
vincent.cataldi
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What if it happened before? ; he asks !


Vince

#9277 From: Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...>
Date: Tue Dec 8, 2009 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: Sensenbrenner Existence Firm Evidence Against Intelligent Design
vincent.cataldi
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Junk Science Exposed In Evolutionary Theory

by Babu G. Ranganathan

Millions of high school and college biology textbooks teach that research scientist Stanley Miller, in the 1950's, showed how life could have arisen by chance. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Miller, in his famous experiment in 1953, showed that individual amino acids (the building blocks of life) could come into existence by chance. But, it's not enough just to have amino acids. The various amino acids that make-up life must link together in a precise sequence, just like the letters in a sentence, to form functioning protein molecules. If they're not in the right sequence the protein molecules won't work. It has never been shown that various amino acids can bind together into a sequence by chance to form protein molecules. Even the simplest cell is made up of many millions of various protein molecules.

Full Story:  http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/07-12-2009/110962-evolution-0

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 11:03 PM, Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...> wrote:
Anne:

You may be right, but I can not understand what you're saying.

So - I'll guess:

We all have the right to be wrong, beliefs and all included;
but our elected officials have no right to lack courage today.  

Vince


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Anne <anne@...> wrote:
 

I'm just sayin'

Vincent J Cataldi wrote:

 
Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of “Scientific Fascism”
Yes - a man with courage !  Vince

Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of “Scientific Fascism”

  • Text size
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  • Larger
  •  
  • Smaller

Agence France-Presse
December 4, 2009

A row over leaked emails from a British scientist hinting at a global warming cover-up has reached the US Congress, where climate change skeptics are seeking to thwart key legislation.

featured stories Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of Scientific Fascism

British Professor Phil Jones has stood aside as director of the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, after his emails calling into question the scientific basis for climate change fears were leaked.

Hackers had penetrated the center’s network and posted online thousands of emails from researchers, including Jones, ahead of a landmark Copenhagen summit which opens next week.

The leader of a US group of so-called “climatology skeptics”, Republican Representative James Sensenbrenner, said “if the emails are genuine it is very disturbing because they call into question the whole science of climate change.”

Read entire article



-- (\_/)
(=’.'=)
(”)_(”)




#9276 From: Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...>
Date: Tue Dec 8, 2009 11:15 pm
Subject: Copenhagen climate summit in disarray after 'Danish text' leak
vincent.cataldi
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Copenhagen climate summit in disarray after 'Danish text' leak


Developing countries react furiously to leaked draft agreement that would hand more power to rich nations, sideline the UN's negotiating role and abandon the Kyoto protocol

Full Story:http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/08/copenhagen-climate-summit-disarray-danish-text


#9275 From: "russwallac" <russwallac@...>
Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 8:21 pm
Subject: Re: Climategate
russwallac
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Where to start...

The entire solar system wasn't warming.  Total solar irradiance has
actually dropped slightly over the past thirty years. Despite this
global temperatures aren't dropping (although 2008 was a relatively cool
year, 2009 has been quite warm). CO2 level continues to rise and  in now
probably higher than it's been in several hundred thousand years. Oceans
don't warm from the bottom up. Sea level has been increasing at the very
upper limits of the IPCC predictions. Ice melt, particularly in the
Northern Hemisphere, is accelerating at unprecedented rates.

Vincent, there's little point in debating if you're not willing to
actually read the science. Anybody can post thoroughly debunked talking
points from denialist websites, but all that proves is how little work
they've actually done to understand this issue. I know you're
approaching this from a certain ideological perspective, but that's no
excuse for intellectual laziness. Read the science. You don't have to
agree with it, but until you know what it actually says you're in no
position to evaluate it.

Russell


--- In DemocracyforWisconsin@yahoogroups.com, Vincent J Cataldi
<vincent.cataldi@...> wrote:
>
> ClimateGate Data Research Link: http://www.eastangliaemails.com/
>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Vincent J Cataldi <
> vincent.cataldi@... wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Vincent J Cataldi <
> > vincent.cataldi@... wrote:
> >
> >> Russell:
> >>
> >> You miss the forest for the trees bark.
> >>
> >> The entire solar system was warming until a decade ago, most of it
is
> >> still warming  - for the last ten years the Earth was cooling.
Perhaps
> >> ChemTrails are cooling the Earth now - could it be Man Made Global
Cooling?
> >>
> >>
> >> Before that, a decade back, the Earth was warming, technically,
although
> >> the air was getting colder, and the oceans were getting warmer -
but the
> >> oceans cover most of the Earth - we are heading for an ice age,
again.
> >>
> >> This happens when the oceans warm from the bottom up - hundreds of
> >> millions of times the energy you are thinking of - this causes more
water
> >> vapor (10 thousand time the greenhouse gas as CO2) and with the
colder air
> >> it snows, and snows, and snows some more, until it never quite
melts.
> >>
> >> This is a massive change - a natural cycle - solar system wide -
study the
> >> Science - insist upon honesty, please stop making excuses for your
pet
> >> beliefs, recognize that you may be invested in buried assumptions.
> >>
> >> Please investigate - we need more critical thinkers looking into
the
> >> Truth.  We have major environmental problems, but not CO2 made by
man; CO2
> >> has almost never been lower.  I am more concerned by the reduction
of
> >> oxygen!
> >>
> >> Respectfully,  Vince
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:35 PM, russwallac russwallac@... wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Anthropomorphic global warming deniers are the same sort of people
who
> >>> pretended there wasn't a link between smoking and lung cancer. No
amount of
> >>> science will ever convince them of the reality of global warming
because
> >>> their beliefs are based on ideology, not reason. Unfortunately, as
with the
> >>> smoking-cancer link, such people are easily manipulated by groups
with a
> >>> vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
> >>>
> >>> I've gone through most of the CRU emails, and I have enough of a
> >>> scientific background to evaluate their significance. There's
little there
> >>> other than a bunch of scientists being human and occasionally
petty when
> >>> they thought nobody would notice.
Realclimate<http://www.realclimate.org/>
> >>> has by far the best discussions on the issues, and if anybody
wants to
> >>> debate me on this please read them first so you can make your
points
> >>> intelligently. I know it's a lot of information to digest, but if
you're not
> >>> willing to do your homework you'll just be wasting everybody's
time.
> >>>
> >>> The theft of the CRU emails appears to be part of a larger, and
likely
> >>> organized, effort to attack climate science. There have recently
been
> >>> several other attempts, both physical and electronic, to break
into
> >>> computers, labs, and offices of climate scientists, as well as
what amounts
> >>> to outright bribe attempts to get climate scientists to write
skeptical
> >>> papers. This shows how determined deniers are to delay any public
policy
> >>> changes. Changes that might, coincidentally, negatively impact the
profits
> >>> of the exact same corporations that fund the denial effort.
> >>>
> >>> Sort of reminds you of certain tobacco companies, doesn't it.
> >>>
> >>> Russell Wallace
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>

#9274 From: Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...>
Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 6:15 am
Subject: Re: Climategate
vincent.cataldi
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ClimateGate Data Research Link: http://www.eastangliaemails.com/

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...> wrote:
Global Warming Science and Public Policy - Copenhagen Climate Concerns



On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...> wrote:
Russell:

You miss the forest for the trees bark.

The entire solar system was warming until a decade ago, most of it is still warming  - for the last ten years the Earth was cooling.  Perhaps ChemTrails are cooling the Earth now - could it be Man Made Global Cooling?  

Before that, a decade back, the Earth was warming, technically, although the air was getting colder, and the oceans were getting warmer - but the oceans cover most of the Earth - we are heading for an ice age, again. 

This happens when the oceans warm from the bottom up - hundreds of millions of times the energy you are thinking of - this causes more water vapor (10 thousand time the greenhouse gas as CO2) and with the colder air it snows, and snows, and snows some more, until it never quite melts.

This is a massive change - a natural cycle - solar system wide - study the Science - insist upon honesty, please stop making excuses for your pet beliefs, recognize that you may be invested in buried assumptions.

Please investigate - we need more critical thinkers looking into the Truth.  We have major environmental problems, but not CO2 made by man; CO2 has almost never been lower.  I am more concerned by the reduction of oxygen!

Respectfully,  Vince


On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:35 PM, russwallac <russwallac@...> wrote:
 

Anthropomorphic global warming deniers are the same sort of people who pretended there wasn't a link between smoking and lung cancer. No amount of science will ever convince them of the reality of global warming because their beliefs are based on ideology, not reason. Unfortunately, as with the smoking-cancer link, such people are easily manipulated by groups with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

I've gone through most of the CRU emails, and I have enough of a scientific background to evaluate their significance. There's little there other than a bunch of scientists being human and occasionally petty when they thought nobody would notice. Realclimate  has by far the best discussions on the issues, and if anybody wants to debate me on this please read them first so you can make your points intelligently. I know it's a lot of information to digest, but if you're not willing to do your homework you'll just be wasting everybody's time.

The theft of the CRU emails appears to be part of a larger, and likely organized, effort to attack climate science. There have recently been several other attempts, both physical and electronic, to break into computers, labs, and offices of climate scientists, as well as what amounts to outright bribe attempts to get climate scientists to write skeptical papers. This shows how determined deniers are to delay any public policy changes. Changes that might, coincidentally, negatively impact the profits of the exact same corporations that fund the denial effort.

Sort of reminds you of certain tobacco companies, doesn't it.

Russell Wallace





#9273 From: Ted <laketilton@...>
Date: Tue Dec 8, 2009 4:27 am
Subject: Re: Canada's public television commentary says Climategate spells doom for Copenhagen
laketilton
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Woman Who Invented Credit Default Swaps is One of the Key Architects of Carbon Derivatives, Which Would Be at the Very CENTER of Cap and Trade


As I have previously shown, speculative derivatives (especially credit default swaps) are a primary cause of the economic crisis.

And I have pointed out that (1) the giant banks will make a killing on carbon trading, (2) while the leading scientist crusading against global warming says it won't work, and (3) there is a very high probability of massive fraud and insider trading in the carbon trading markets.

Now, Bloomberg notes that the carbon trading scheme will be centered around derivatives:

The banks are preparing to do with carbon what they’ve done before: design and market derivatives contracts that will help client companies hedge their price risk over the long term. They’re also ready to sell carbon-related financial products to outside investors.

[Blythe] Masters says banks must be allowed to lead the way if a mandatory carbon-trading system is going to help save the planet at the lowest possible cost. And derivatives related to carbon must be part of the mix, she says. Derivatives are securities whose value is derived from the value of an underlying commodity -- in this case, CO2 and other greenhouse gases...

Who is Blythe Masters?

She is the JP Morgan employee who invented credit default swaps, and is now heading JPM's carbon trading efforts. As Bloomberg notes (this and all remaining quotes are from the above-linked Bloomberg article):

Masters, 40, oversees the New York bank’s environmental businesses as the firm’s global head of commodities...

As a young London banker in the early 1990s, Masters was part of JPMorgan’s team developing ideas for transferring risk to third parties. She went on to manage credit risk for JPMorgan’s investment bank.

Among the credit derivatives that grew from the bank’s early efforts was the credit-default swap.
Some in congress are fighting against carbon derivatives:

“People are going to be cutting up carbon futures, and we’ll be in trouble,” says Maria Cantwell, a Democratic senator from Washington state. “You can’t stay ahead of the next tool they’re going to create.”

Cantwell, 51, proposed in November that U.S. state governments be given the right to ban unregulated financial products. “The derivatives market has done so much damage to our economy and is nothing more than a very-high-stakes casino -- except that casinos have to abide by regulations,” she wrote in a press release...

However, Congress may cave in to industry pressure to let carbon derivatives trade over-the-counter:

The House cap-and-trade bill bans OTC derivatives, requiring that all carbon trading be done on exchanges...The bankers say such a ban would be a mistake...The banks and companies may get their way on carbon derivatives in separate legislation now being worked out in Congress...

Financial experts are also opposed to cap and trade:

Even George Soros, the billionaire hedge fund operator, says money managers would find ways to manipulate cap-and-trade markets. “The system can be gamed,” Soros, 79, remarked at a London School of Economics seminar in July. “That’s why financial types like me like it -- because there are financial opportunities”...

Hedge fund manager Michael Masters, founder of Masters Capital Management LLC, based in St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands [and unrelated to Blythe Masters] says speculators will end up controlling U.S. carbon prices, and their participation could trigger the same type of boom-and-bust cycles that have buffeted other commodities...

The hedge fund manager says that banks will attempt to inflate the carbon market by recruiting investors from hedge funds and pension funds.

“Wall Street is going to sell it as an investment product to people that have nothing to do with carbon,” he says. “Then suddenly investment managers are dominating the asset class, and nothing is related to actual supply and demand. We have seen this movie before.”

Indeed, as I have previously pointed out, many environmentalists are opposed to cap and trade as well. For example:

Michelle Chan, a senior policy analyst in San Francisco for Friends of the Earth, isn’t convinced.

“Should we really create a new $2 trillion market when we haven’t yet finished the job of revamping and testing new financial regulation?” she asks. Chan says that, given their recent history, the banks’ ability to turn climate change into a new commodities market should be curbed...

“What we have just been woken up to in the credit crisis -- to a jarring and shocking degree -- is what happens in the real world,” she says...

Friends of the Earth’s Chan is working hard to prevent the banks from adding carbon to their repertoire. She titled a March FOE report “Subprime Carbon?” In testimony on Capitol Hill, she warned, “Wall Street won’t just be brokering in plain carbon derivatives -- they’ll get creative.”

Yes, they'll get "creative", and we have seen this movie before ...an inadequately-regulated carbon derivatives boom will destabilize the economy and lead to another crash.


From: Rosanne Lindsay <Rosanne.Lindsay@...>
To: Democracy for Wisconsin <democracyforwisconsin@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, December 7, 2009 8:23:06 PM
Subject: [DemocracyforWisconsin] Canada’s public television commentary says Climategate spells doom for Copenhagen

 

Canada’s public television commentary says Climategate spells doom for Copenhagen

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Terence Corcoran 
Financial Post
December 4, 2009

The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation’s news and public affairs operations may not quite have caught up with Climategate, but the CBC’s Rex Murphy has. Most CBC listeners and viewers might be wondering what he’s talking about. Since the story broke two weeks ago with the release of emails from the world’s leading climate institute, there has only been one news report on the network and the only analysis item was on Anna Maria Tremonti’s The Current — a pooh-poohing academic from the United States who said there was nothing in the emails worth talking about.


Read entire article




#9272 From: "russwallac" <russwallac@...>
Date: Wed Dec 9, 2009 3:35 am
Subject: Climategate
russwallac
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Anthropomorphic global warming deniers are the same sort of people who pretended there wasn't a link between smoking and lung cancer. No amount of science will ever convince them of the reality of global warming because their beliefs are based on ideology, not reason. Unfortunately, as with the smoking-cancer link, such people are easily manipulated by groups with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

I've gone through most of the CRU emails, and I have enough of a scientific background to evaluate their significance. There's little there other than a bunch of scientists being human and occasionally petty when they thought nobody would notice. Realclimate  has by far the best discussions on the issues, and if anybody wants to debate me on this please read them first so you can make your points intelligently. I know it's a lot of information to digest, but if you're not willing to do your homework you'll just be wasting everybody's time.

The theft of the CRU emails appears to be part of a larger, and likely organized, effort to attack climate science. There have recently been several other attempts, both physical and electronic, to break into computers, labs, and offices of climate scientists, as well as what amounts to outright bribe attempts to get climate scientists to write skeptical papers. This shows how determined deniers are to delay any public policy changes. Changes that might, coincidentally, negatively impact the profits of the exact same corporations that fund the denial effort.

Sort of reminds you of certain tobacco companies, doesn't it.

Russell Wallace

#9271 From: Anne <anne@...>
Date: Tue Dec 8, 2009 4:14 am
Subject: Sensenbrenner Existence Firm Evidence Against Intelligent Design
nu1986ams
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I'm just sayin'

Vincent J Cataldi wrote:
 
Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of “Scientific Fascism”
Yes - a man with courage !  Vince

Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of “Scientific Fascism”

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Agence France-Presse
December 4, 2009

A row over leaked emails from a British scientist hinting at a global warming cover-up has reached the US Congress, where climate change skeptics are seeking to thwart key legislation.

featured stories Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of Scientific Fascism

British Professor Phil Jones has stood aside as director of the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, after his emails calling into question the scientific basis for climate change fears were leaked.

Hackers had penetrated the center’s network and posted online thousands of emails from researchers, including Jones, ahead of a landmark Copenhagen summit which opens next week.

The leader of a US group of so-called “climatology skeptics”, Republican Representative James Sensenbrenner, said “if the emails are genuine it is very disturbing because they call into question the whole science of climate change.”

Read entire article



-- (\_/)
(=’.'=)
(”)_(”)

#9270 From: Rosanne Lindsay <Rosanne.Lindsay@...>
Date: Tue Dec 8, 2009 2:23 am
Subject: Canadas public television commentary says Climategate spells doom for Copenhagen
lindsayvalley
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Canadas public television commentary says Climategate spells doom for Copenhagen

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Terence Corcoran
Financial Post
December 4, 2009

The Canadian Broadcasting Corporations news and public affairs operations may not quite have caught up with Climategate, but the CBCs Rex Murphy has. Most CBC listeners and viewers might be wondering what hes talking about. Since the story broke two weeks ago with the release of emails from the worlds leading climate institute, there has only been one news report on the network and the only analysis item was on Anna Maria Tremontis The Current a pooh-poohing academic from the United States who said there was nothing in the emails worth talking about.


Read entire article



#9269 From: Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...>
Date: Sat Dec 5, 2009 5:31 am
Subject: Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of “Scientific Fascism”
vincent.cataldi
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of “Scientific Fascism”
Yes - a man with courage !  Vince

Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of “Scientific Fascism”

  • Text size
  •  
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Agence France-Presse
December 4, 2009

A row over leaked emails from a British scientist hinting at a global warming cover-up has reached the US Congress, where climate change skeptics are seeking to thwart key legislation.

featured stories Sensenbrenner: CRU Emails Evidence of Scientific Fascism

British Professor Phil Jones has stood aside as director of the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, after his emails calling into question the scientific basis for climate change fears were leaked.

Hackers had penetrated the center’s network and posted online thousands of emails from researchers, including Jones, ahead of a landmark Copenhagen summit which opens next week.

The leader of a US group of so-called “climatology skeptics”, Republican Representative James Sensenbrenner, said “if the emails are genuine it is very disturbing because they call into question the whole science of climate change.”

Read entire article


#9268 From: Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...>
Date: Sat Dec 5, 2009 5:35 am
Subject: Canada’s public television commentary says Climategate spells doom for Copenhagen
vincent.cataldi
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Canada’s public television commentary says Climategate spells doom for Copenhagen

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Terence Corcoran 
Financial Post
December 4, 2009

The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation’s news and public affairs operations may not quite have caught up with Climategate, but the CBC’s Rex Murphy has. Most CBC listeners and viewers might be wondering what he’s talking about. Since the story broke two weeks ago with the release of emails from the world’s leading climate institute, there has only been one news report on the network and the only analysis item was on Anna Maria Tremonti’s The Current — a pooh-poohing academic from the United States who said there was nothing in the emails worth talking about.


Read entire article


#9267 From: Vincent J Cataldi <vincent.cataldi@...>
Date: Fri Dec 4, 2009 1:31 pm
Subject: Re: At midnight last night, the United Kingdom ceased to be a sovereign state
vincent.cataldi
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
It worked perfectly, I suspect, doing exactly what they wanted it to do, and that has nothing to do with what they said.

What they wrote is that they planned to remove all manufacturing capacity from the USA, and to breakup all important manufacturing labor unions, because the USA twice before tooled up to stop tyrannically imposed global domination during the two world wars.

This was just finished as GM was sold and shipped off to Brazil, China, and Russia - with a twist - we still have to build them factories to manufacture.

Vince

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Ted <laketilton@...> wrote:
 

All I know is NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA didn't work out as well as Al Gore and the others were saying they would.



From: Rosanne Lindsay <Rosanne.Lindsay@...>
To: Democracy for Wisconsin <democracyforwisconsin@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 3:32:50 PM
Subject: [DemocracyforWisconsin] At midnight last night, the United Kingdom ceased to be a sovereign state

 

 
Could it happen here?  When Obama goes to Copenhagen in two weeks will we be singing the same song?

<http://blogs. telegraph. co.uk/news/ danielhannan/ 100018459/ at-midnight- last-night- the-united- kingdom-ceased- to-be-a-sovereig n-state/>


At midnight last night, the United Kingdom ceased to be a sovereign
state

By Daniel Hannan Politics Last updated: December 1st, 2009 321

We woke up in a different country today. Alright, it doesn˙t
look very different. The trees still seem black against the winter
sun; the motorways continue to jam inexplicably; commuters carry
on avoiding eye contact. But Britain is no longer a sovereign
nation. At midnight last night, we ceased to be an independent
state, bound by international treaties to other independent states,
and became instead a subordinate unit within a European state.

Yes, a European state. Take a quick dekko at the definition set
out in Article One of the1933 Montevideo Convention on the Rights
and Duties of States: ╲The state as a person of international
law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent
population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d)
capacity to enter into relations with the other states.╡

Until yesterday, the EU qualified on grounds (a), (b) and (c). Now
it has ticked the final box. Under the Lisbon Treaty, which came
into force today, it acquires legal personality, which gives
it the right to sign accords and treat with other states. Nor is
this right simply theoretical: the EU now has a foreign minister,
a diplomatic corps (the European External Action Service) and 160
overseas embassies.

Until yesterday, the EU could not annex additional policy areas
without a new treaty, which needed to be ratified by all its
constituent nations. Now, it has the so-called passerelle
clause, or self-amending mechanism. Parliament, in other words,
no longer has the final say on extensions of EU jurisdiction. The
EU derives its authority, not from its 27 members, but from its
own foundational texts.

Until yesterday, Britain could simply walk out of the EU by
abrogating the Treaty of Rome and repealing the 1972 European
Communities Act. Henceforth, it will have to go through the secession
procedure laid down in Lisbon. In other words in the minds of
Euro-lawyers, at any rate, if not of British constitutionalists,
the EU gets to settle the terms on which its members are allowed
to leave. Formal sovereignty has been shifted from the national
capitals to Brussels.

It is appalling, demeaning, disgraceful that such a thing should
have been done without popular consent, and in the absence of the
referendum that all three parties had promised. There is no
point in crying over spilt milk, you might say. True. But there
is every point in mopping it up.

/////





#9266 From: Ted <laketilton@...>
Date: Thu Dec 3, 2009 10:14 pm
Subject: Re: At midnight last night, the United Kingdom ceased to be a sovereign state
laketilton
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
All I know is NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA didn't work out as well as Al Gore and the others were saying they would.



From: Rosanne Lindsay <Rosanne.Lindsay@...>
To: Democracy for Wisconsin <democracyforwisconsin@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 3:32:50 PM
Subject: [DemocracyforWisconsin] At midnight last night, the United Kingdom ceased to be a sovereign state

 

 
Could it happen here?  When Obama goes to Copenhagen in two weeks will we be singing the same song?

<http://blogs. telegraph. co.uk/news/ danielhannan/ 100018459/ at-midnight- last-night- the-united- kingdom-ceased- to-be-a-sovereig n-state/>

At midnight last night, the United Kingdom ceased to be a sovereign
state

By Daniel Hannan Politics Last updated: December 1st, 2009 321

We woke up in a different country today. Alright, it doesn˙t
look very different. The trees still seem black against the winter
sun; the motorways continue to jam inexplicably; commuters carry
on avoiding eye contact. But Britain is no longer a sovereign
nation. At midnight last night, we ceased to be an independent
state, bound by international treaties to other independent states,
and became instead a subordinate unit within a European state.

Yes, a European state. Take a quick dekko at the definition set
out in Article One of the1933 Montevideo Convention on the Rights
and Duties of States: ╲The state as a person of international
law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent
population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d)
capacity to enter into relations with the other states.╡

Until yesterday, the EU qualified on grounds (a), (b) and (c). Now
it has ticked the final box. Under the Lisbon Treaty, which came
into force today, it acquires legal personality, which gives
it the right to sign accords and treat with other states. Nor is
this right simply theoretical: the EU now has a foreign minister,
a diplomatic corps (the European External Action Service) and 160
overseas embassies.

Until yesterday, the EU could not annex additional policy areas
without a new treaty, which needed to be ratified by all its
constituent nations. Now, it has the so-called passerelle
clause, or self-amending mechanism. Parliament, in other words,
no longer has the final say on extensions of EU jurisdiction. The
EU derives its authority, not from its 27 members, but from its
own foundational texts.

Until yesterday, Britain could simply walk out of the EU by
abrogating the Treaty of Rome and repealing the 1972 European
Communities Act. Henceforth, it will have to go through the secession
procedure laid down in Lisbon. In other words in the minds of
Euro-lawyers, at any rate, if not of British constitutionalists,
the EU gets to settle the terms on which its members are allowed
to leave. Formal sovereignty has been shifted from the national
capitals to Brussels.

It is appalling, demeaning, disgraceful that such a thing should
have been done without popular consent, and in the absence of the
referendum that all three parties had promised. There is no
point in crying over spilt milk, you might say. True. But there
is every point in mopping it up.

/////




#9265 From: Rosanne Lindsay <Rosanne.Lindsay@...>
Date: Thu Dec 3, 2009 9:32 pm
Subject: At midnight last night, the United Kingdom ceased to be a sovereign state
lindsayvalley
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
 
Could it happen here?  When Obama goes to Copenhagen in two weeks will we be singing the same song?

<http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100018459/at-midnight-last-night-the-united-kingdom-ceased-to-be-a-sovereign-state/>

At midnight last night, the United Kingdom ceased to be a sovereign
state

By Daniel Hannan Politics Last updated: December 1st, 2009 321

We woke up in a different country today. Alright, it doesn˙t
look very different. The trees still seem black against the winter
sun; the motorways continue to jam inexplicably; commuters carry
on avoiding eye contact. But Britain is no longer a sovereign
nation. At midnight last night, we ceased to be an independent
state, bound by international treaties to other independent states,
and became instead a subordinate unit within a European state.

Yes, a European state. Take a quick dekko at the definition set
out in Article One of the1933 Montevideo Convention on the Rights
and Duties of States: ╲The state as a person of international
law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent
population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d)
capacity to enter into relations with the other states.╡

Until yesterday, the EU qualified on grounds (a), (b) and (c). Now
it has ticked the final box. Under the Lisbon Treaty, which came
into force today, it acquires legal personality, which gives
it the right to sign accords and treat with other states. Nor is
this right simply theoretical: the EU now has a foreign minister,
a diplomatic corps (the European External Action Service) and 160
overseas embassies.

Until yesterday, the EU could not annex additional policy areas
without a new treaty, which needed to be ratified by all its
constituent nations. Now, it has the so-called passerelle
clause, or self-amending mechanism. Parliament, in other words,
no longer has the final say on extensions of EU jurisdiction. The
EU derives its authority, not from its 27 members, but from its
own foundational texts.

Until yesterday, Britain could simply walk out of the EU by
abrogating the Treaty of Rome and repealing the 1972 European
Communities Act. Henceforth, it will have to go through the secession
procedure laid down in Lisbon. In other words in the minds of
Euro-lawyers, at any rate, if not of British constitutionalists,
the EU gets to settle the terms on which its members are allowed
to leave. Formal sovereignty has been shifted from the national
capitals to Brussels.

It is appalling, demeaning, disgraceful that such a thing should
have been done without popular consent, and in the absence of the
referendum that all three parties had promised. There is no
point in crying over spilt milk, you might say. True. But there
is every point in mopping it up.

/////



#9264 From: Rosanne Lindsay <Rosanne.Lindsay@...>
Date: Thu Dec 3, 2009 3:17 pm
Subject: Re: The U.S. Could Have Killed Bin Laden in 2001 AND IN 2007
lindsayvalley
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
And did we really believe GW would have killed the son of a dear, dear Saudi King-friend?

Rosanne

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Tom Krajewski <Krajewskit@...> wrote:

To sum up: An alive Bin Laden justified war.



On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Ted <laketilton@...> wrote:

The U.S. Could Have Killed Bin Laden in 2001 AND IN 2007


You've heard that - according to the U.S. Senate - Bin Laden was "within the grasp" of the U.S. military in Afghanistan in December 2001, but that then-secretary of defense Rumsfeld refused to provide the soldiers necessary to capture him.

This is not news: it was disclosed in 2005 by the CIA field commander for the area in Afghanistan where Bin Laden was holed up.

In addition, French soldiers allegedly say that they easily could have captured or killed Bin Laden in Afghanistan, but that the American commanders stopped them.

And the oldest - and second-largest - French newspaper claims that CIA agents met with Bin Laden two months before 9/11, when he was already wanted for the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole.

At that point, it should have been obvious to the American and allied intelligence services that Bin Laden was involved in planning 9/11:
  • The National Security Agency and the FBI were each independently listening in on the phone calls between the supposed mastermind of the attacks and the lead hijacker. Indeed, the FBI built its own antenna in Madagascar specifically to listen in on the mastermind's phone calls
  • The day before 9/11, the mastermind told the lead hijacker "tomorrow is zero hour" and gave final approval for the attacks. The NSA intercepted the message that day and the FBI was likely also monitoring the mastermind's phone calls
  • Indeed, two days before 9/11, Bin Laden called his stepmother and told her "In two days, you're going to hear big news and you're not going to hear from me for a while. U.S. officials later told CNN that in recent years they've been able to monitor some of bin Laden's telephone communications with his [step]mother. Bin Laden at the time was using a satellite telephone, and the signals were intercepted and sometimes recorded." Indeed, before 9/11, to impress important visitors, NSA analysts would occasionally play audio tapes of bin Laden talking to his stepmother.
  • And according to CBS News, at 9:53 a.m on 9/11, just 15 minutes after the hijacked plane had hit the Pentagon, "the National Security Agency, which monitors communications worldwide, intercepted a phone call from one of Osama bin Laden's operatives in Afghanistan to a phone number in the former Soviet Republic of Georgia", and secretary of Defense Rumsfeld learned about the intercepted phone call in real-time (if the NSA monitored and transcribed phone calls in real-time on 9/11, that implies that it did so in the months leading up to 9/11 as well)
But even ignoring everything that happened in and before 2001, there are still unanswered questions. Specifically, a retired Colonel and Fox News military analyst said that the U.S. could have killed Bin Laden in 2007, but didn't:
We know, with a 70 percent level of certainty which is huge in the world of intelligence that in August of 2007, bin Laden was in a convoy headed south from Tora Bora. We had his butt, on camera, on satellite. We were listening to his conversations. We had the worlds best hunters/killers Seal Team 6 nearby. We had the world class Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) coordinating with the CIA and other agencies. We had unmanned drones overhead with missiles on their wings; we had the best Air Force on the planet, begging to drop one on the terrorist. We had him in our sights; we had done it ....Unbelievably, and in my opinion, criminally, we did not kill Usama bin Laden.
Indeed, a United States Congressman claims that the Bush administration intentionally let Bin Laden escape in order to justify the Iraq war.

Postscript: Many people claim that Bin Laden died a long time ago. According to
Israeli intelligence, Pakistani intelligence, and other sources, Bin Laden is dead.

According to video experts and and top Bin Laden experts, recent Bin Laden videos are fake.

So if Bin Laden is alive, American leaders have to explain why they have repeatedly chosen not to pull the trigger.

And if he is dead, they have to explain why they are claiming that he's alive and authenticating his videos.




--
Enough energy pours down from the sun in one hour to power the planet's energy
needs for a year.

Thomas Krajewski
4208 Jerome St.
Madison, WI
53716



#9263 From: Tom Krajewski <Krajewskit@...>
Date: Thu Dec 3, 2009 3:08 pm
Subject: Re: The U.S. Could Have Killed Bin Laden in 2001 AND IN 2007
TOMKRAJ
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
To sum up: An alive Bin Laden justified war.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Ted <laketilton@...> wrote:

The U.S. Could Have Killed Bin Laden in 2001 AND IN 2007


You've heard that - according to the U.S. Senate - Bin Laden was "within the grasp" of the U.S. military in Afghanistan in December 2001, but that then-secretary of defense Rumsfeld refused to provide the soldiers necessary to capture him.

This is not news: it was disclosed in 2005 by the CIA field commander for the area in Afghanistan where Bin Laden was holed up.

In addition, French soldiers allegedly say that they easily could have captured or killed Bin Laden in Afghanistan, but that the American commanders stopped them.

And the oldest - and second-largest - French newspaper claims that CIA agents met with Bin Laden two months before 9/11, when he was already wanted for the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole.

At that point, it should have been obvious to the American and allied intelligence services that Bin Laden was involved in planning 9/11:
  • The National Security Agency and the FBI were each independently listening in on the phone calls between the supposed mastermind of the attacks and the lead hijacker. Indeed, the FBI built its own antenna in Madagascar specifically to listen in on the mastermind's phone calls
  • The day before 9/11, the mastermind told the lead hijacker "tomorrow is zero hour" and gave final approval for the attacks. The NSA intercepted the message that day and the FBI was likely also monitoring the mastermind's phone calls
  • Indeed, two days before 9/11, Bin Laden called his stepmother and told her "In two days, you're going to hear big news and you're not going to hear from me for a while. U.S. officials later told CNN that in recent years they've been able to monitor some of bin Laden's telephone communications with his [step]mother. Bin Laden at the time was using a satellite telephone, and the signals were intercepted and sometimes recorded." Indeed, before 9/11, to impress important visitors, NSA analysts would occasionally play audio tapes of bin Laden talking to his stepmother.
  • And according to CBS News, at 9:53 a.m on 9/11, just 15 minutes after the hijacked plane had hit the Pentagon, "the National Security Agency, which monitors communications worldwide, intercepted a phone call from one of Osama bin Laden's operatives in Afghanistan to a phone number in the former Soviet Republic of Georgia", and secretary of Defense Rumsfeld learned about the intercepted phone call in real-time (if the NSA monitored and transcribed phone calls in real-time on 9/11, that implies that it did so in the months leading up to 9/11 as well)
But even ignoring everything that happened in and before 2001, there are still unanswered questions. Specifically, a retired Colonel and Fox News military analyst said that the U.S. could have killed Bin Laden in 2007, but didn't:
We know, with a 70 percent level of certainty which is huge in the world of intelligence that in August of 2007, bin Laden was in a convoy headed south from Tora Bora. We had his butt, on camera, on satellite. We were listening to his conversations. We had the worlds best hunters/killers Seal Team 6 nearby. We had the world class Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) coordinating with the CIA and other agencies. We had unmanned drones overhead with missiles on their wings; we had the best Air Force on the planet, begging to drop one on the terrorist. We had him in our sights; we had done it ....Unbelievably, and in my opinion, criminally, we did not kill Usama bin Laden.
Indeed, a United States Congressman claims that the Bush administration intentionally let Bin Laden escape in order to justify the Iraq war.

Postscript: Many people claim that Bin Laden died a long time ago. According to
Israeli intelligence, Pakistani intelligence, and other sources, Bin Laden is dead.

According to video experts and and top Bin Laden experts, recent Bin Laden videos are fake.

So if Bin Laden is alive, American leaders have to explain why they have repeatedly chosen not to pull the trigger.

And if he is dead, they have to explain why they are claiming that he's alive and authenticating his videos.




--
Enough energy pours down from the sun in one hour to power the planet's energy
needs for a year.

Thomas Krajewski
4208 Jerome St.
Madison, WI
53716

#9262 From: Ted <laketilton@...>
Date: Wed Dec 2, 2009 8:29 pm
Subject: The U.S. Could Have Killed Bin Laden in 2001 AND IN 2007
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The U.S. Could Have Killed Bin Laden in 2001 AND IN 2007


You've heard that - according to the U.S. Senate - Bin Laden was "within the grasp" of the U.S. military in Afghanistan in December 2001, but that then-secretary of defense Rumsfeld refused to provide the soldiers necessary to capture him.

This is not news: it was disclosed in 2005 by the CIA field commander for the area in Afghanistan where Bin Laden was holed up.

In addition, French soldiers allegedly say that they easily could have captured or killed Bin Laden in Afghanistan, but that the American commanders stopped them.

And the oldest - and second-largest - French newspaper claims that CIA agents met with Bin Laden two months before 9/11, when he was already wanted for the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole.

At that point, it should have been obvious to the American and allied intelligence services that Bin Laden was involved in planning 9/11:
  • The National Security Agency and the FBI were each independently listening in on the phone calls between the supposed mastermind of the attacks and the lead hijacker. Indeed, the FBI built its own antenna in Madagascar specifically to listen in on the mastermind's phone calls
  • The day before 9/11, the mastermind told the lead hijacker "tomorrow is zero hour" and gave final approval for the attacks. The NSA intercepted the message that day and the FBI was likely also monitoring the mastermind's phone calls
  • Indeed, two days before 9/11, Bin Laden called his stepmother and told her "In two days, you're going to hear big news and you're not going to hear from me for a while.” U.S. officials later told CNN that “in recent years they've been able to monitor some of bin Laden's telephone communications with his [step]mother. Bin Laden at the time was using a satellite telephone, and the signals were intercepted and sometimes recorded." Indeed, before 9/11, to impress important visitors, NSA analysts would occasionally play audio tapes of bin Laden talking to his stepmother.
  • And according to CBS News, at 9:53 a.m on 9/11, just 15 minutes after the hijacked plane had hit the Pentagon, "the National Security Agency, which monitors communications worldwide, intercepted a phone call from one of Osama bin Laden's operatives in Afghanistan to a phone number in the former Soviet Republic of Georgia", and secretary of Defense Rumsfeld learned about the intercepted phone call in real-time (if the NSA monitored and transcribed phone calls in real-time on 9/11, that implies that it did so in the months leading up to 9/11 as well)
But even ignoring everything that happened in and before 2001, there are still unanswered questions. Specifically, a retired Colonel and Fox News military analyst said that the U.S. could have killed Bin Laden in 2007, but didn't:
We know, with a 70 percent level of certainty — which is huge in the world of intelligence — that in August of 2007, bin Laden was in a convoy headed south from Tora Bora. We had his butt, on camera, on satellite. We were listening to his conversations. We had the world’s best hunters/killers — Seal Team 6 — nearby. We had the world class Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) coordinating with the CIA and other agencies. We had unmanned drones overhead with missiles on their wings; we had the best Air Force on the planet, begging to drop one on the terrorist. We had him in our sights; we had done it ....Unbelievably, and in my opinion, criminally, we did not kill Usama bin Laden.
Indeed, a United States Congressman claims that the Bush administration intentionally let Bin Laden escape in order to justify the Iraq war.

Postscript: Many people claim that Bin Laden died a long time ago. According to
Israeli intelligence, Pakistani intelligence, and other sources, Bin Laden is dead.

According to video experts and and top Bin Laden experts, recent Bin Laden videos are fake.

So if Bin Laden is alive, American leaders have to explain why they have repeatedly chosen not to pull the trigger.

And if he is dead, they have to explain why they are claiming that he's alive and authenticating his videos.


#9261 From: Ted <laketilton@...>
Date: Wed Dec 2, 2009 8:26 pm
Subject: What Empires Have Said Throughout History: "One More Surge"
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What Empires Have Said Throughout History: "One More Surge"


A leading advisor to the U.S. military, the Rand Corporation, released a study in 2008 called "How Terrorist Groups End: Lessons for Countering al Qa'ida". The report confirms what experts have been saying for years: the war on terror is actually weakening national security.

As a press release about the study states:

"Terrorists should be perceived and described as criminals, not holy warriors, and our analysis suggests that there is no battlefield solution to terrorism."
In fact, starting right after 9/11 -- at the latest -- the goal has always been to create "regime change" and instability in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Lebanon and other countries.

As American historian, investigative journalist and policy analyst Gareth Porter writes in the Asia Times:
Three weeks after the September 11, 2001, terror attacks, former US defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld established an official military objective of not only removing the Saddam Hussein regime by force but overturning the regime in Iran, as well as in Syria and four other countries in the Middle East, according to a document quoted extensively in then-under secretary of defense for policy Douglas Feith's recently published account of the Iraq war decisions. Feith's account further indicates that this aggressive aim of remaking the map of the Middle East by military force and the threat of force was supported explicitly by the country's top military leaders.
Feith's book, War and Decision, released last month, provides excerpts of the paper Rumsfeld sent to President George W Bush on September 30, 2001, calling for the administration to focus not on taking down Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network but on the aim of establishing "new regimes" in a series of states...
***
General Wesley Clark, who commanded the North Atlantic Treaty Organization bombing campaign in the Kosovo war, recalls in his 2003 book Winning Modern Wars being told by a friend in the Pentagon in November 2001 that the list of states that Rumsfeld and deputy secretary of defense Paul Wolfowitz wanted to take down included Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan and Somalia [and Lebanon].
***
When this writer asked Feith . . . which of the six regimes on the Clark list were included in the Rumsfeld paper, he replied, "All of them."
***
The Defense Department guidance document made it clear that US military aims in regard to those states would go well beyond any ties to terrorism. The document said the Defense Department would also seek to isolate and weaken those states and to "disrupt, damage or destroy" their military capacities - not necessarily limited to weapons of mass destruction (WMD).

The goal was never focused on destroying Al Qaeda. As just one example, the U.S. let Bin Laden escape in 2001 and again in 2007.

Indeed, the goal seems to have more to do with being a superpower (i.e. an empire) than stopping terrorism.

As Porter writes:

After the bombing of two US embassies in East Africa [in 1988] by al-Qaeda operatives, State Department counter-terrorism official Michael Sheehan proposed supporting the anti-Taliban Northern Alliance in Afghanistan against bin Laden's sponsor, the Taliban regime. However, senior US military leaders "refused to consider it", according to a 2004 account by Richard H Shultz, Junior, a military specialist at Tufts University.
A senior officer on the Joint Staff told State Department counter-terrorism director Sheehan he had heard terrorist strikes characterized more than once by colleagues as a "small price to pay for being a superpower".

One More Surge in Afghanistan

Empire after empire has broken its back trying to control Afghanistan.

Why?

It is the crossroads between East, West, South Asia and Central Asia. And now it is the proposed site for a Trans-Afghanistan gas pipeline.

If you believe President Obama's statement that America will be out of Afghanistan in 18 months, I have some barren, rocky hills to sell you. Indeed, Media Benjamin said today that Hillary Clinton told her that troops might still be in Afghanistan in 60 years, like American bases have remained in Japan, Germany and elsewhere long after WWII ended.

Michael Rivero summarizes Obama's Afghanistan war surge in the context of the 2,000-plus-year history of empires trying to conquer that country:

"Just one more surge!" -- The Indus

"Just one more surge!" -- The Kushan

"Just one more surge!" -- The Scythians

"Just one more surge!" -- The Parthians

"Just one more surge!" -- The Saffarid

"Just one more surge!" -- The Ghaznavid

"Just one more surge!" -- The Ghorid

"Just one more surge!" -- The Timurid

"Just one more surge!" -- The Hotaki

"Just one more surge!" -- The Durrani

"Just one more surge!" -- The Aryan

"Just one more surge!" -- The Persians

"Just one more surge!" -- The Sassanids

"Just one more surge!" -- The Hephthalites

"Just one more surge!" -- The Huns

"Just one more surge!" -- The Mughals

"Just one more surge!" -- The Arabs

"Just one more surge!" -- The Turkic

"Just one more surge!" -- The Hazaras

"Just one more surge!" -- The Khwarezmids

"Just one more surge!" -- The Mongols

"Just one more surge!" -- The British

"Just one more surge!" -- The British (again)

"Just one more surge!" -- The British (Yet again)

"Just one more surge!" -- The USSR

"Just one more surge!" -- The United States




#9260 From: Stephen Kastner <stephen.kastner@...>
Date: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: Madison response to escalation in Afghanistan
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November 25, 2009

Peace Groups Formulate Madison WI Response to Obamas Escalation of War in Afghanistan

Madison Area Peace Coalition, Madison Pledge of Resistance and Veterans for Peace planning demonstrations.

It is with heavy and pained hearts that we hear early reports suggesting that on December 1st President Obama will announce that he will be sending 34,000 more troops to Afghanistan, escalating the illegal and immoral war that is causing such devastation and suffering to the people of Afghanistan. We elected him as the Peace President. We elected him to bring change, but he is continuing the abhorrent policies of the empire builders before him.

We, the people, must stand up and protest this travesty. We must let Obama know that we will not be silent in the face of these crimes against humanity. We know that too many innocent people in Afghanistan have died. We know that too many US military men and women have given their lives in vain. We demand our president bring an end to this endless war.

Several Madison peace groups have come together answering the call by the national Veterans for Peace office, calling for people of conscience from across the country to stand up and speak out loud and clear that we will not accept an escalation of war and violence in Afghanistan when we do not have health care at home, when we do not have housing for people in this country, when too many children in the US are going to bed hungry every night.

PLEASE JOIN US FOR THESE ACTIONS IN MADISON

November 30 Before the announcement, we must let President Obama know our demands

5:00 PM Gather at Library Mall on campus for procession. Dress in black if possible

5:30 PM Press conference Library Mall

6:30 PM Showing of the movie Rethink Afghanistan and panel discussion Humanities Building, UW-Madison Campus, Room to be announced (See TITU)

December 1 President Obamas speech

7:00 PM (time may change depending on when the President speaks) Watch Obamas speech with other peace activists, followed by open mic and call to action Humanities Building, UW-Madison Campus, Room to be announced (See TITU)

December 2 Response to President Obamas action

11:00 AM Gather at Lisa Link Peace Park. (We need volunteers who are dressed in black with black hoods or caps who are willing to be part of March of the Dead. We need volunteers to carry coffins.)

We will have a somber March of the Dead to the Capitol Square where we will remember and mourn the dead by reading their stories. We will deliver our demands to Senator Kohls office and Congresswoman Baldwins office, calling on our legislators to refuse to fund the escalation.

Can we organize an action of nonviolent civil resistance against the escalation, risking arrest, sometime during the week of November 30-December 4? A likely target would be one of the Dane County businesses that has a contract with the Department of Defense for over $1 million. There are several possibilities. Please let me know if you are interested in being a part of this by contacting me, Joy, at jsfirst@... or calling 608 239-4327.

It is time to revitalize our opposition to the illegal and immoral policies that are being continued under the Obama Administration. Please join us for all of the above events, organized by Madison Area Peace Coalition, Wisconsin Network for Peace and Justice, Veterans for Peace, and Madison Pledge of Resistance.

In continued peace, working for a peaceful world,

Joy First, Madison Pledge of Resistance

Buzz Davis, Veterans for Peace,

David Koene, Madison Area Peace Coalition

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#9259 From: "keldahelen" <keldahelenroys@...>
Date: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:44 pm
Subject: Rising Star: Re-Elect Rep. Kelda Helen Roys
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“Representative Roys is a bright and energetic leader. I am impressed by the
depth of her knowledge across many complex issues. She has hit the ground
running, taking on critical issues and making positive changes for her
constituents. She is truly a rising star.”

          --Mike Sheridan, Speaker of the Wisconsin Assembly

Please join the Friends of Rep. Kelda Helen Roys for hors d’ oeuvres and
refreshments

WEDNESDAY, DEC. 2nd
5:30-7:30 PM
The Mariner’s Inn
5339 Lighthouse Bay Drive,  Westport (just North of Madison)

Directions from the East: take Northport Dr to left on to Hwy M. Left on to Blue
Bill at the next light, then immediate left on to Westport Dr. Turn right onto
Lighthouse Dr. to the Mariner’s Inn.
From the West: Hwy M to right on to Blue Bill. Immediate left onto Westport Dr.
Turn right onto Lighthouse Dr. to the Mariner’s Inn.

$50 suggested contribution
All donations gratefully accepted

Contribute online here:   http://www.actblue.com/page/risingstar

Or mail a contribution to Kelda for Assembly, 2215 N. Sherman Ave, Madison WI
53704

RSVP or questions? (608) 213-4502 or kelda@...

No personal contributions from lobbyists or PAC checks will be accepted.
Authorized and paid for by Kelda for Assembly, Margaret McEntire, Treasurer

#9258 From: Rosanne Lindsay <Rosanne.Lindsay@...>
Date: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:10 pm
Subject: Today's Headlines: Wave of Debt Payments Facing U.S. Government
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Wave of Debt Payments Facing U.S. Government
By EDMUND L. ANDREWS
The ultralow interest rates the U.S. has been paying on its colossal debt may not last much longer, and the White House estimates that the tab will exceed $700 billion a year in 2019.

November 23, 2009
PAYBACK TIME

Wave of Debt Payments Facing U.S. Government

WASHINGTON The United States government is financing its more than trillion-dollar-a-year borrowing with i.o.u.s on terms that seem too good to be true.

But that happy situation, aided by ultralow interest rates, may not last much longer.

Treasuryofficials now face a trifecta of headaches: a mountain of new debt, a balloon of short-term borrowings that come due in the months ahead, and interest rates that are sure to climb back to normal as soon as theFederal Reservedecides that the emergency has passed.

Even as Treasury officials are racing to lock in todays low rates by exchanging short-term borrowings for long-term bonds, the government faces a payment shock similar to those that sent legions of overstretched homeowners into default on their mortgages.

With the national debt now topping $12 trillion, the White House estimates that the governments tab for servicing the debt will exceed $700 billion a year in 2019, up from $202 billion this year, even if annual budget deficits shrink drastically. Other forecasters say the figure could be much higher.

In concrete terms, an additional $500 billion a year in interest expense would total more than the combined federal budgets this year for education, energy, homeland security and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The potential for rapidly escalating interest payouts is just one of the wrenching challenges facing the United States after decades of living beyond its means.

The surge in borrowing over the last year or two is widely judged to have been a necessary response to thefinancial crisisand the deeprecession, and there is still a raging debate over how aggressively to bring down deficits over the next few years. But there is little doubt that the United States long-term budget crisis is becoming too big to postpone.

Americans now have to climb out of two deep holes: as debt-loaded consumers, whose personal wealth sank along with housing and stock prices; and as taxpayers, whose government debt has almost doubled in the last two years alone, just as costs tied to benefits for retiring baby boomers are set to explode.

The competing demands could deepen political battles over the size and role of the government, the trade-offs between taxes and spending, the choices between helping older generations versus younger ones, and the bottom-line questions about who should ultimately shoulder the burden.

The government is on teaser rates, said Robert Bixby, executive director of the Concord Coalition, a nonpartisan group that advocates lower deficits. Were taking out a huge mortgage right now, but we wont feel the pain until later.

So far, the demand forTreasury securitiesfrom investors and other governments around the world has remained strong enough to hold down the interest rates that the United States must offer to sell them. Indeed, the government paid less interest on its debt this year than in 2008, even though it added almost $2 trillion in debt.

The governments average interest rate on new borrowing last year fell below 1 percent. For short-term i.o.u.s like one-month Treasury bills, its average rate was only sixteen-hundredths of a percent.

All of the auction results have been solid, said Matthew Rutherford, the Treasurys deputy assistant secretary in charge of finance operations. Investor demand has been very broad, and its been increasing in the last couple of years.

The problem, many analysts say, is that record government deficits have arrived just as the long-feared explosion begins in spending on benefits underMedicareandSocial Security. The nations oldest baby boomers are approaching 65, setting off what experts have warned for years will be a fiscal nightmare for the government.

What a good country or a good squirrel should be doing is stashing away nuts for the winter, saidWilliam H. Gross, managing director of the Pimco Group, the giant bond-management firm. The United States is not only not saving nuts, its eating the ones left over from the last winter.

The current low rates on the countrys debt were caused by temporary factors that are already beginning to fade. One factor was the economic crisis itself, which caused panicked investors around the world to plow their money into the comparative safety of Treasury bills and notes. Even though the United States was the epicenter of the global crisis, investors viewed Treasury securities as the least dangerous place to park their money.

On top of that, the Fed used almost every tool in its arsenal to push interest rates down even further. It cut the overnight federal funds rate, the rate at which banks lend reserves to one another, to almost zero. And to reduce longer-term rates, it bought more than $1.5 trillion worth of Treasury bonds and government-guaranteed securities linked to mortgages.

Those conditions are already beginning to change. Global investors are shifting money into riskier investments like stocks and corporate bonds, and they have been pouring money into fast-growing countries like Brazil and China.

The Fed, meanwhile, is already halting its efforts at tamping down long-term interest rates. Fed officials ended their $300 billion program to buy up Treasury bonds last month, and they have announced plans to stop buying mortgage-backed securities by the end of next March.

Eventually, though probably not until at least mid-2010, the Fed will also start raising its benchmark interest rate back to more historically normal levels.

The United States will not be the only government competing to refinance huge debt. Japan, Germany, Britain and other industrialized countries have even higher government debt loads, measured as a share of their gross domestic product, and they too borrowed heavily to combat the financial crisis and economic downturn. As the global economy recovers and businesses raise capital to finance their growth, all that new government debt is likely to put more upward pressure on interest rates.

Even a small increase in interest rates has a big impact. An increase of one percentage point in the Treasurys average cost of borrowing would cost American taxpayers an extra $80 billion this year about equal to the combined budgets of the Department of Energy and theDepartment of Education.

But that could seem like a relatively modest pinch. Alan Levenson, chief economist atT. Rowe Price, estimated that the Treasurys tab for debt service this year would have been $221 billion higher if it had faced the same interest rates as it did last year.

The White House estimates that the government will have to borrow about $3.5 trillion more over the next three years. On top of that, the Treasury has to refinance, or roll over, a huge amount of short-term debt that was issued during the financial crisis. Treasury officials estimate that about 36 percent of the governments marketable debt about $1.6 trillion is coming due in the months ahead.

To lock in low interest rates in the years ahead, Treasury officials are trying to replace one-month and three-month bills with 10-year and 30-year Treasury securities. That strategy will save taxpayers money in the long run. But it pushes up costs drastically in the short run, because interest rates are higher for long-term debt.

Adding to the pressure, the Fed is set to begin reversing some of the policies it has been using to prop up the economy. Wall Street firms advising the Treasury recently estimated that the Feds purchases of Treasury bonds and mortgage-backed securities pushed down long-term interest rates by about one-half of a percentage point. Removing that support could in itself add $40 billion to the governments annual tab for debt service.

This month, the Treasury Departments private-sector advisory committee on debt management warned of the risks ahead.

Inflation, higher interest rate and rollover risk should be the primary concerns, declared the Treasury Borrowing Advisory Committee, a group of market experts that provide guidance to the government, on Nov. 4.

Clever debt management strategy, the group said, cant completely substitute for prudent fiscal policy.










#9257 From: Rosanne Lindsay <Rosanne.Lindsay@...>
Date: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:02 pm
Subject: Food Insecurity Rising in U.S. -- One in six Americans felt pangs of hunger in 2008
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One in six Americans felt pangs of hunger in '08
USDA report on food access shows dire situation caused by faltering economy

By Amy Goldstein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, November 17, 2009

The nation's economic crisis has catapulted the number of Americans who lack enough food to the highest level since the government has been keeping track, according to a new federal report, which shows that nearly 50 million people -- including almost one child in four -- struggled last year to get enough to eat.

At a time when rising poverty, widespread unemployment and other effects of the recession have been well documented, the report released Monday by the U.S. Department of Agriculture provides the government's first detailed portrait of the toll that the faltering economy has taken on Americans' access to food.

The magnitude of the increase in food shortages -- and, in some cases, outright hunger -- identified in the report startled even the nation's leading anti-poverty advocates, who have grown accustomed to longer lines lately at food banks and soup kitchens. The findings also intensify pressure on the White House to fulfill a pledge to stamp out childhood hunger made by President Obama, who called the report "unsettling."

The data show that dependable access to adequate food has especially deteriorated among families with children. In 2008, nearly 17 million children, or 22.5 percent, lived in households in which food at times was scarce -- 4 million children more than the year before. And the number of youngsters who sometimes were outright hungry rose from nearly 700,000 to almost 1.1 million.

Among Americans of all ages, more than 16 percent -- or 49 million people -- sometimes ran short of nutritious food, compared with about 12 percent the year before. The deterioration in access to food during 2008 among both children and adults far eclipses that of any other single year in the report's history.

Around the Washington area, the data show, the extent of food shortages varies significantly. In the past three years, an average of 12.4 percent of households in the District had at least some problems getting enough food, slightly worse than the national average. In Maryland, the average was 9.6 percent, and in Virginia it was 8.6 percent.

The local and national findings are from a snapshot of food in the United States that the Agriculture Department has issued every year since 1995, based on Census Bureau surveys. It documents Americans who lack a dependable supply of adequate food -- people living with some amount of "food insecurity" in the lexicon of experts -- and those whose food shortages are so severe that they are hungry. The new report is based on a survey conducted in December.

Several independent advocates and policy experts on hunger said that they had been bracing for the latest report to show deepening shortages, but that they were nevertheless astonished by how much the problem has worsened. "This is unthinkable. It's like we are living in a Third World country," said Vicki Escarra, president of Feeding America, the largest organization representing food banks and other emergency food sources.

"It's frankly just deeply upsetting," said James D. Weill, president of the Washington-based Food and Action Center. As the economy eroded, Weill said, "you had more and more people getting pushed closer to the cliff's edge. Then this huge storm came along and pushed them over."

Obama, who pledged during last year's presidential campaign to eliminate hunger among children by 2015, reiterated that goal on Monday. "My Administration is committed to reversing the trend of rising hunger," the president said in a statement. The solution begins with job creation, Obama said. And he ticked off steps that Congress and the administration have taken, or are planning, including increases in food stamp benefits and $85 million Congress just freed up through an appropriations bill to experiment with feeding more children during the summer, when subsidized school breakfasts and lunches are unavailable.

In a briefing for reporters, Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack said, "These numbers are a wake-up call . . . for us to get very serious about food security and hunger, about nutrition and food safety in this country."

Vilsack attributed the marked worsening in Americans' access to food primarily to the rise in unemployment, which now exceeds 10 percent, and in people who are underemployed. He acknowledged that "there could be additional increases" in the 2009 figures, due out a year from now, although he said it is not yet clear how much the problem might be eased by the measures the administration and Congress have taken this year to stimulate the economy.

The report's main author at USDA, Mark Nord, noted that other recent research by the agency has found that most families in which food is scarce contain at least one adult with a full-time job, suggesting that the problem lies at least partly in wages, not entirely an absence of work.

The report suggests that federal food assistance programs are only partly fulfilling their purpose, although Vilsack said that shortages would be much worse without them. Just more than half of the people surveyed who reported they had food shortages said that they had, in the previous month, participated in one of the government's largest anti-hunger and nutrition programs: food stamps, subsidized school lunches or WIC, the nutrition program for women with babies or young children.

Last year, people in 4.8 million households used private food pantries, compared with 3.9 million in 2007, while people in about 625,000 households resorted to soup kitchens, nearly 90,000 more than the year before.

Food shortages, the report shows, are particularly pronounced among women raising children alone. Last year, more than one in three single mothers reported that they struggled for food, and more than one in seven said that someone in their home had been hungry -- far eclipsing the food problem in any other kind of household. The report also found that people who are black or Hispanic were more than twice as likely as whites to report that food in their home was scarce.

In the survey used to measure food shortages, people were considered to have food insecurity if they answered "yes" to several of a series of questions. Among the questions were whether, in the past year, their food sometimes ran out before they had money to buy more, whether they could not afford to eat nutritionally balanced meals, and whether adults in the family sometimes cut the size of their meals -- or skipped them -- because they lacked money for food. The report defined the degree of their food insecurity by the number of the questions to which they answered yes.

Note: Wisconsin has over 2.3 million households that experience food insecurity -- one in 10 households in Wisconsin.



#9256 From: lisasubeck@...
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:33 pm
Subject: Take Action to Stop the Abortion Coverage Ban!
lisasubeck
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Please forward widely!

Hi all,

As you know by now, the House of Representatives passed a health care reform bill with a complete ban on insurance coverage for abortions. Please complete the online petition to ensure a similar ban does not make it into the Senate bill:
https://secure.prochoiceamerica.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=4021

85% of insurance plans in the private market currently offer this coverage. Under the new plan, we stand to lose the coverage we already have. This is a giant leap backward for women's health care.

We need to keep fighting to ensure a similar ban does not appear in the Senate version of the health reform bill. Please click the link below to tell Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid not to allow a complete ban on abortion coverage in the Senate bill:
https://secure.prochoiceamerica.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=4021

Thanks,
Lisa Subeck
Executive Director
NARAL Pro-Choice Wisconsin

www.prochoicewisconsin.org

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