Look in your Oxford dictionary.

On Jan 4, 2010, at 1:25 PM, Charlie Stanford wrote:

> I have never heard pedigreed being used with a d on the end.... perhaps that
> is an American thing. We (Brits) would use pedigree rather than pure-bred.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...>
> To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 5:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Somebody's something's
>
>
>> Okay, the first sentence, with "Hill's Science's" would be grammatically
>> correct, and the second one wouldn't be.  However, in that case the
>> advertising agency would do some contortion to avoid adding the second 's,
>> such as saying, "The potential of the new products from Hill's Science
>> is..." or completely overhauling the sentence.
>>
>> "Cistokrevny" is definitely "pure-bred".  "Pure-breed" (as an adjective)
>> is definitely wrong.
>>
>> According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, you can use the adjectives
>> "pedigreed" (listed first) or "pedigree", but this gets into a mess as to
>> whether there is a piece of paper (i.e., a pedigree) documenting that the
>> animal is pure-bred.  My Oxford Concise Dictionary (UK) does not have
>> "pedigree" as an adjective, but only "pedigreed", which fits my sense of
>> the word better than the Webster listing.  There's a tendency in the US
>> for people to forget the past-tense suffix on adjectives, resulting in
>> signs in stores that say "CAN POP" or "CAN VEGETABLES", usually in places
>> that would also have a clothing section for "MENS".
>>
>> Jamie
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2010, at 10:42 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks again Melvyn,
>>>
>>> It's very cold out here, my brain is in winter mode, sorry for having to
>>> ask twice - and possibly three times, just out of curiosity:
>>>
>>> IF we presume the company's called Hill's Science (they call themselves
>>> Hills Science and other things in various markets)... AND you had a
>>> sentence about PROPOSED (theoretical) products, going something like:
>>>
>>> The potential of Hill's Science's new products is.... whatever - WOULD
>>> that be closer to your heart than saying:
>>> The potential of Hill's Science new products is...
>>>
>>> To me, the first sounds more appropriate, but I might just be applying a
>>> rule without thinking..
>>>
>>> On another note, does anyone have an opinion on which term is best for
>>> "cistokrevny/a"? Plenty of relevant hits for pure-bred and various
>>> combinations thereof (not pure breed as some Russian sites and my Czech
>>> clients seem to think), but I remember someone asking about a cat: .."is
>>> she pedigree?" Could the later be more US ENG? Or just less formal?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Matej
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Melvyn
>>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 1:39 PM
>>> Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Somebody's something's
>>>
>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Jamie and Melvyn..
>>>>
>>>> Melvyn, if I understand correctly Somebody's something's product is
>>>> grammatically possible?
>>>
>>> I see no big problem with forms like "St Michael's Mount's website" or
>>> "St John's College's magazine" and nothing I can find in my grammar books
>>> suggests they should be banned. "Prince Charles to unveil plaque to mark
>>> St Paul's School's 500th anniversary". Sounds fine to me - if that is the
>>> sort of thing you are asking about.
>>>
>>> As I was saying with "Bird's Eye('s) fish fingers", the form without the
>>> second 's is much more common - the second 's does not usually give you
>>> any added value/meaning, so more often than not you would just leave it
>>> out IMHO.
>>>
>>> Not that I consider myself an arbiter of what is grammatical and what is
>>> not, you understand. Lots of grey areas. Any two grammar books will have
>>> three opinions. Just Melvyn's halfpenny's worth.
>>>
>>> Ugh, groan, contrived.
>>>
>>> M.
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Translators' tricks of the trade:
>> http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Jsem chr�nin bezplatn�m SPAMfighter pro soukrom� u3ivatele.
> A3 doposud mi u1etoil po�jmu 1596 spam-emailu.
> Plat�c� u3ivatel� tuto zpr�vu ve sv�ch e-mailech nedostavaj�.
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Translators' tricks of the trade:
> http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Zdravim,

chtel bych se zeptat, zda by nekdo z pritomnych nebyl ochoten venovat jednu
hodinu (dle sve sazby) overeni/prelozeni urcitych technickych terminu v oblasti
(pod)zemnich staveb z anglictiny do cestiny (montaz a konstrukcni prvky podzemni
sachty na domovni odpad). Jako ukazku zamereni textu uvadim cast obsahu (v textu
samotnem je sirsi kontext):

Installation of the moulded rail for a 2-piece concrete well
Drainage/connection edge
Guide conduits and guide pieces
Cantilever floor

Pokud mate nekdo zajem, prosim kontaktujte me e-mailem soukrome, domluvime se
dale.

Diky,
Tomas

http://www.localizations.cz

This is the Internet... once you let something out, there's no way to
get it back in :)

Josef

Pilucha, Jiri wrote:
> Yes, that's why I immediately recalled the email but apparently the recall
failed. Thanks for the comment
> Jiri
>

Maybe it says it in the Oxford dictionary but I have still never heard pedigree
being used with a d on the end for any breed of animal. I am an English
native-speaker from a farming background and am not that green around the ears
but maybe I have not been listening carefully enough.... Perhaps people say it
but not anyone I have ever come across.
Incidentally I think you will find that "thoroughbred" horses are not a pure
breed of a certain type of horse but a specific breed of (originally
crossbred)racehorse. So you can have a "pure Arab stallion" but a "Thoroughbred
Arab stallion" is actually a cross between a Thoroughbred and an Arab.


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: James Kirchner
   To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 7:32 PM
   Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Somebody's something's



   Look in your Oxford dictionary.

   On Jan 4, 2010, at 1:25 PM, Charlie Stanford wrote:

   > I have never heard pedigreed being used with a d on the end.... perhaps that
   > is an American thing. We (Brits) would use pedigree rather than pure-bred.
   >
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...>
   > To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
   > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 5:03 PM
   > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Somebody's something's
   >
   >
   >> Okay, the first sentence, with "Hill's Science's" would be grammatically
   >> correct, and the second one wouldn't be. However, in that case the
   >> advertising agency would do some contortion to avoid adding the second 's,
   >> such as saying, "The potential of the new products from Hill's Science
   >> is..." or completely overhauling the sentence.
   >>
   >> "Cistokrevny" is definitely "pure-bred". "Pure-breed" (as an adjective)
   >> is definitely wrong.
   >>
   >> According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, you can use the adjectives
   >> "pedigreed" (listed first) or "pedigree", but this gets into a mess as to
   >> whether there is a piece of paper (i.e., a pedigree) documenting that the
   >> animal is pure-bred. My Oxford Concise Dictionary (UK) does not have
   >> "pedigree" as an adjective, but only "pedigreed", which fits my sense of
   >> the word better than the Webster listing. There's a tendency in the US
   >> for people to forget the past-tense suffix on adjectives, resulting in
   >> signs in stores that say "CAN POP" or "CAN VEGETABLES", usually in places
   >> that would also have a clothing section for "MENS".
   >>
   >> Jamie
   >>
   >> On Jan 4, 2010, at 10:42 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
   >>
   >>> Thanks again Melvyn,
   >>>
   >>> It's very cold out here, my brain is in winter mode, sorry for having to
   >>> ask twice - and possibly three times, just out of curiosity:
   >>>
   >>> IF we presume the company's called Hill's Science (they call themselves
   >>> Hills Science and other things in various markets)... AND you had a
   >>> sentence about PROPOSED (theoretical) products, going something like:
   >>>
   >>> The potential of Hill's Science's new products is.... whatever - WOULD
   >>> that be closer to your heart than saying:
   >>> The potential of Hill's Science new products is...
   >>>
   >>> To me, the first sounds more appropriate, but I might just be applying a
   >>> rule without thinking..
   >>>
   >>> On another note, does anyone have an opinion on which term is best for
   >>> "cistokrevny/a"? Plenty of relevant hits for pure-bred and various
   >>> combinations thereof (not pure breed as some Russian sites and my Czech
   >>> clients seem to think), but I remember someone asking about a cat: .."is
   >>> she pedigree?" Could the later be more US ENG? Or just less formal?
   >>>
   >>> Thanks
   >>>
   >>> Matej
   >>>
   >>> ----- Original Message -----
   >>> From: Melvyn
   >>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
   >>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 1:39 PM
   >>> Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Somebody's something's
   >>>
   >>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
   >>>>
   >>>> Thanks, Jamie and Melvyn..
   >>>>
   >>>> Melvyn, if I understand correctly Somebody's something's product is
   >>>> grammatically possible?
   >>>
   >>> I see no big problem with forms like "St Michael's Mount's website" or
   >>> "St John's College's magazine" and nothing I can find in my grammar books
   >>> suggests they should be banned. "Prince Charles to unveil plaque to mark
   >>> St Paul's School's 500th anniversary". Sounds fine to me - if that is the
   >>> sort of thing you are asking about.
   >>>
   >>> As I was saying with "Bird's Eye('s) fish fingers", the form without the
   >>> second 's is much more common - the second 's does not usually give you
   >>> any added value/meaning, so more often than not you would just leave it
   >>> out IMHO.
   >>>
   >>> Not that I consider myself an arbiter of what is grammatical and what is
   >>> not, you understand. Lots of grey areas. Any two grammar books will have
   >>> three opinions. Just Melvyn's halfpenny's worth.
   >>>
   >>> Ugh, groan, contrived.
   >>>
   >>> M.
   >>>
   >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >>>
   >>>
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >> ------------------------------------
   >>
   >> Translators' tricks of the trade:
   >> http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >> Yahoo! Groups Links
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >
   >
   > --
   > Jsem chránin bezplatným SPAMfighter pro soukromé u3ivatele.
   > A3 doposud mi u1etoil poíjmu 1596 spam-emailu.
   > Platící u3ivatelé tuto zprávu ve svých e-mailech nedostavají.
   > Stáhnite si zadarmo SPAMfighter zde: www.spamfighter.com/lcs
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > ------------------------------------
   >
   > Translators' tricks of the trade:
   > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >





--
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Až doposud mě ušetřil příjmu 1596 spam-emailů.
Platící uživatelé tuto zprávu ve svých e-mailech nedostavají.
Stáhněte si zadarmo SPAMfighter zde: www.spamfighter.com/lcs


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am not a native speaker but I breed dogs, ride horses etc. Charlie is right. I
have always seen  "pedigree dogs" and never "pedigreed".
Sabina
   -----Original Message-----
   From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Charlie Stanford
   Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 8:11 PM
   To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Czechlist] Re: Somebody's something's



   Maybe it says it in the Oxford dictionary but I have still never heard
pedigree being used with a d on the end for any breed of animal. I am an English
native-speaker from a farming background and am not that green around the ears
but maybe I have not been listening carefully enough.... Perhaps people say it
but not anyone I have ever come across.
   Incidentally I think you will find that "thoroughbred" horses are not a pure
breed of a certain type of horse but a specific breed of (originally
crossbred)racehorse. So you can have a "pure Arab stallion" but a "Thoroughbred
Arab stallion" is actually a cross between a Thoroughbred and an Arab.


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: James Kirchner
   To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 7:32 PM
   Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Somebody's something's

   Look in your Oxford dictionary.

   On Jan 4, 2010, at 1:25 PM, Charlie Stanford wrote:

   > I have never heard pedigreed being used with a d on the end.... perhaps that
   > is an American thing. We (Brits) would use pedigree rather than pure-bred.
   >
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...>
   > To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
   > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 5:03 PM
   > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Somebody's something's
   >
   >
   >> Okay, the first sentence, with "Hill's Science's" would be grammatically
   >> correct, and the second one wouldn't be. However, in that case the
   >> advertising agency would do some contortion to avoid adding the second 's,
   >> such as saying, "The potential of the new products from Hill's Science
   >> is..." or completely overhauling the sentence.
   >>
   >> "Cistokrevny" is definitely "pure-bred". "Pure-breed" (as an adjective)
   >> is definitely wrong.
   >>
   >> According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, you can use the adjectives
   >> "pedigreed" (listed first) or "pedigree", but this gets into a mess as to
   >> whether there is a piece of paper (i.e., a pedigree) documenting that the
   >> animal is pure-bred. My Oxford Concise Dictionary (UK) does not have
   >> "pedigree" as an adjective, but only "pedigreed", which fits my sense of
   >> the word better than the Webster listing. There's a tendency in the US
   >> for people to forget the past-tense suffix on adjectives, resulting in
   >> signs in stores that say "CAN POP" or "CAN VEGETABLES", usually in places
   >> that would also have a clothing section for "MENS".
   >>
   >> Jamie
   >>
   >> On Jan 4, 2010, at 10:42 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
   >>
   >>> Thanks again Melvyn,
   >>>
   >>> It's very cold out here, my brain is in winter mode, sorry for having to
   >>> ask twice - and possibly three times, just out of curiosity:
   >>>
   >>> IF we presume the company's called Hill's Science (they call themselves
   >>> Hills Science and other things in various markets)... AND you had a
   >>> sentence about PROPOSED (theoretical) products, going something like:
   >>>
   >>> The potential of Hill's Science's new products is.... whatever - WOULD
   >>> that be closer to your heart than saying:
   >>> The potential of Hill's Science new products is...
   >>>
   >>> To me, the first sounds more appropriate, but I might just be applying a
   >>> rule without thinking..
   >>>
   >>> On another note, does anyone have an opinion on which term is best for
   >>> "cistokrevny/a"? Plenty of relevant hits for pure-bred and various
   >>> combinations thereof (not pure breed as some Russian sites and my Czech
   >>> clients seem to think), but I remember someone asking about a cat: .."is
   >>> she pedigree?" Could the later be more US ENG? Or just less formal?
   >>>
   >>> Thanks
   >>>
   >>> Matej
   >>>
   >>> ----- Original Message -----
   >>> From: Melvyn
   >>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
   >>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 1:39 PM
   >>> Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Somebody's something's
   >>>
   >>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
   >>>>
   >>>> Thanks, Jamie and Melvyn..
   >>>>
   >>>> Melvyn, if I understand correctly Somebody's something's product is
   >>>> grammatically possible?
   >>>
   >>> I see no big problem with forms like "St Michael's Mount's website" or
   >>> "St John's College's magazine" and nothing I can find in my grammar books
   >>> suggests they should be banned. "Prince Charles to unveil plaque to mark
   >>> St Paul's School's 500th anniversary". Sounds fine to me - if that is the
   >>> sort of thing you are asking about.
   >>>
   >>> As I was saying with "Bird's Eye('s) fish fingers", the form without the
   >>> second 's is much more common - the second 's does not usually give you
   >>> any added value/meaning, so more often than not you would just leave it
   >>> out IMHO.
   >>>
   >>> Not that I consider myself an arbiter of what is grammatical and what is
   >>> not, you understand. Lots of grey areas. Any two grammar books will have
   >>> three opinions. Just Melvyn's halfpenny's worth.
   >>>
   >>> Ugh, groan, contrived.
   >>>
   >>> M.
   >>>
   >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >>>
   >>>
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >> ------------------------------------
   >>
   >> Translators' tricks of the trade:
   >> http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >> Yahoo! Groups Links
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >
   >
   > --
   > Jsem chránin bezplatným SPAMfighter pro soukromé u3ivatele.
   > A3 doposud mi u1etoil poíjmu 1596 spam-emailu.
   > Platící u3ivatelé tuto zprávu ve svých e-mailech nedostavají.
   > Stáhnite si zadarmo SPAMfighter zde: www.spamfighter.com/lcs
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > ------------------------------------
   >
   > Translators' tricks of the trade:
   > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >

   --
   Jsem chráněn bezplatným SPAMfighter pro soukromé uživatele.
   Až doposud mě ušetřil příjmu 1596 spam-emailů.
   Platící uživatelé tuto zprávu ve svých e-mailech nedostavají.
   Stáhněte si zadarmo SPAMfighter zde: www.spamfighter.com/lcs

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry for having set off another heated debate... just wanted to check..

I think the (European) headquarters which are in Czecho now are having their
effect on the entire corporation, in all I've seen they're calling themselves
"Hill's Science" (complete with the inevitable "company" tacked onto the end...
now there's a brand name set in stone :)

My reasoning was that if the brand name was something simple (such as Nike),
nobody (not even a copywriter) would have a problem saying "Nike's new
supersonic trainers.."

Anyway, there's far more complicated stuff in that project, thanks for the
pedigree explanation too, pure bred seemed OK and had enough hits, but I had a
suspicion it might not be what dog-breeding people use..

M




   ----- Original Message -----
   From: James Kirchner
   To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 2:42 PM
   Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Somebody's something's



   When you work in an English-speaking advertising agency, those brand names ARE
set in stone, and you do everything possible not to disturb them in form or
appearance. Grammatical rules, for example, would dictate that the plural of
Chevy be "Chevies", but that is forbidden in GM advertising materials, and what
is written is actually "Chevys", against standard English grammatical rules.

   Besides the fact that "Hill's Science's cat food" sounds like Czenglish
(regardless of what other double sequences of possessives you find in English),
it should not be changed, mainly because of this general preference for
trademark integrity.

   You see evidence of this American preference in Czech in bad collocations like
"se Skoda". It's ridiculous in Czech, but leaving the 's off in English would
not be ridiculous at all, and certainly not as ridiculous (in less familiar
trademark collocations) as that sequence of possessives.

   Jamie

   On Jan 4, 2010, at 8:28 AM, Charlie Stanford wrote:

   > Jamie, I think Melvyn is just making the point that it is perfectly alright
to say "Hill's Science's cat food is alright but their dog food is a bit stodgy"
- i.e. when you are using it as a possessive and not as part of the brand name.
Also the other examples of double possessives he quotes are absolutely fine - I
don't think it is quite as set in stone as you are making out.
   >
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: James Kirchner
   > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
   > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 2:11 PM
   > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Somebody's something's
   >
   > They are a division of Colgate-Palmolive, so their ultimate headquarters is
in New York. The corporate name is "Hill's Pet Nutrition, Inc.", and that
division is headquartered in Topeka, Kansas, the part of the country were many
of those animal-foody, cerealy corporations are based. They may have created
some shorter Euro-digestible name for the countries where English is not the
native language. Maybe New York or Topeka naïvely moved the European operation
to the Czech lands for their own reasons, but the headquarters are still here.
   >
   > Anyway, I would not write "Hill's Science's", but use "Hill's Science" as a
brand name that can't be altered, so "Hill's Science cat food" or "cat food from
Hill's Science", etc.
   >
   > Jamie
   >
   > On Jan 4, 2010, at 6:02 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
   >
   > > Thanks, Jamie and Melvyn..
   > >
   > > Melvyn, if I understand correctly Somebody's something's product is
   > > grammatically possible?
   > >
   > > Jamie, They might have changed their corporate blah blah, the logo says HS
   > > and the company's called "Hill's Science" - at least in what I'm dealing
   > > with now.. it's a proposal for a research project involving a new pet food
   > > concept, so it's about thye company and its (mostly theoretical) products,
   > > which might or might not be called "Science Diet"... in any case the
   > > company's name does nopt contain the word "diet", or does it?
   > >
   > > (BTW, their headquarters are now in Czecho and they hired a Czech consumer
   > > research agency to do a survey for them in England [with English pet
owners]
   > > on the presumption that they'll save... needless to say the Czech
   > > researchers are making a mess out of it and I don't see any native Brits
   > > voluntarily discussing pet food on a blog-like forum run by heavy
Czecnglish
   > > speakers..)
   > >
   > >
   > > M
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > ----- Original Message -----
   > > From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...>
   > > To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
   > > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 1:37 AM
   > > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Somebody's something's
   > >
   > >
   > >> Matej, I used to work on the Hill's Science Diet account at their
   > >> advertising agency, and we would never have written it that way. I have
   > >> never seen it without the "Diet" after "Science".
   > >>
   > >> The trademark is "Hill's Science Diet", often shortened to "Science
Diet".
   > >> In English it would be "Hill's Science Diet cat food", or when the Hill's
   > >> logo is emblazoned all over the piece, just "Science Diet cat food".
   > >>
   > >> For a non-English language, you'd have to handle it the way you would
with
   > >> any brand name, by putting the trademark after the generic name of the
   > >> product, such as "krmivo Hill's Science Diet" or "krmivo Science Diet".
   > >>
   > >> The main thing is that you not add suffixes to anything inside the brand
   > >> name.
   > >>
   > >> Jamie
   > >>
   > >> On Jan 3, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
   > >>
   > >>> A quick ceck with native speakers please, when a brand is "somebody's
   > >>> something",
   > >>> (Hill's Science pet food in this case), can I use "Hill's Science's cat
   > >>> food" etc?
   > >>>
   > >>> Thanks a lot
   > >>>
   > >>> Matej
   > >>>
   > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   > >>>
   > >>>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >> ------------------------------------
   > >>
   > >> Translators' tricks of the trade:
   > >> http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > ------------------------------------
   > >
   > > Translators' tricks of the trade:
   > > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > Yahoo! Groups Links
   > >
   > >
   > >
   >
   > --
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   > Až doposud mě ušetřil příjmu 1596 spam-emailů.
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   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That's right.

On Jan 4, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:

> My reasoning was that if the brand name was something simple (such as Nike),
nobody (not even a copywriter) would have a problem saying "Nike's new
supersonic trainers.."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don’t know about Nike, but as regards the company that I work for (and whose
name, too, is “something simple”) – attaching an apostrophe to the company
name is regarded as infringement of the registered trade name and violation of
corporate identity (although, in practice, a lawsuit about an apostrophe is
rather improbable).  (I do know about a company, though, that filed a lawsuit
against a bidder who used their logo in low-resolution poor quality, which only
goes to show you that one never knows...)

J



________________________________
From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Matej Klimes
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:01 PM
To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Somebody's something's



Sorry for having set off another heated debate... just wanted to check..

I think the (European) headquarters which are in Czecho now are having their
effect on the entire corporation, in all I've seen they're calling themselves
"Hill's Science" (complete with the inevitable "company" tacked onto the end...
now there's a brand name set in stone :)

My reasoning was that if the brand name was something simple (such as Nike),
nobody (not even a copywriter) would have a problem saying "Nike's new
supersonic trainers.."

Anyway, there's far more complicated stuff in that project, thanks for the
pedigree explanation too, pure bred seemed OK and had enough hits, but I had a
suspicion it might not be what dog-breeding people use..

M

----- Original Message -----
From: James Kirchner
To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Somebody's something's

When you work in an English-speaking advertising agency, those brand names ARE
set in stone, and you do everything possible not to disturb them in form or
appearance. Grammatical rules, for example, would dictate that the plural of
Chevy be "Chevies", but that is forbidden in GM advertising materials, and what
is written is actually "Chevys", against standard English grammatical rules.

Besides the fact that "Hill's Science's cat food" sounds like Czenglish
(regardless of what other double sequences of possessives you find in English),
it should not be changed, mainly because of this general preference for
trademark integrity.

You see evidence of this American preference in Czech in bad collocations like
"se Skoda". It's ridiculous in Czech, but leaving the 's off in English would
not be ridiculous at all, and certainly not as ridiculous (in less familiar
trademark collocations) as that sequence of possessives.

Jamie

On Jan 4, 2010, at 8:28 AM, Charlie Stanford wrote:

> Jamie, I think Melvyn is just making the point that it is perfectly alright to
say "Hill's Science's cat food is alright but their dog food is a bit stodgy" -
i.e. when you are using it as a possessive and not as part of the brand name.
Also the other examples of double possessives he quotes are absolutely fine - I
don't think it is quite as set in stone as you are making out.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James Kirchner
> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 2:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Somebody's something's
>
> They are a division of Colgate-Palmolive, so their ultimate headquarters is in
New York. The corporate name is "Hill's Pet Nutrition, Inc.", and that division
is headquartered in Topeka, Kansas, the part of the country were many of those
animal-foody, cerealy corporations are based. They may have created some shorter
Euro-digestible name for the countries where English is not the native language.
Maybe New York or Topeka naïvely moved the European operation to the Czech
lands for their own reasons, but the headquarters are still here.
>
> Anyway, I would not write "Hill's Science's", but use "Hill's Science" as a
brand name that can't be altered, so "Hill's Science cat food" or "cat food from
Hill's Science", etc.
>
> Jamie
>
> On Jan 4, 2010, at 6:02 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Jamie and Melvyn..
> >
> > Melvyn, if I understand correctly Somebody's something's product is
> > grammatically possible?
> >
> > Jamie, They might have changed their corporate blah blah, the logo says HS
> > and the company's called "Hill's Science" - at least in what I'm dealing
> > with now.. it's a proposal for a research project involving a new pet food
> > concept, so it's about thye company and its (mostly theoretical) products,
> > which might or might not be called "Science Diet"... in any case the
> > company's name does nopt contain the word "diet", or does it?
> >
> > (BTW, their headquarters are now in Czecho and they hired a Czech consumer
> > research agency to do a survey for them in England [with English pet owners]
> > on the presumption that they'll save... needless to say the Czech
> > researchers are making a mess out of it and I don't see any native Brits
> > voluntarily discussing pet food on a blog-like forum run by heavy Czecnglish
> > speakers..)
> >
> >
> > M
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James Kirchner"
<jpklists@...<mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
> > To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 1:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Somebody's something's
> >
> >
> >> Matej, I used to work on the Hill's Science Diet account at their
> >> advertising agency, and we would never have written it that way. I have
> >> never seen it without the "Diet" after "Science".
> >>
> >> The trademark is "Hill's Science Diet", often shortened to "Science Diet".
> >> In English it would be "Hill's Science Diet cat food", or when the Hill's
> >> logo is emblazoned all over the piece, just "Science Diet cat food".
> >>
> >> For a non-English language, you'd have to handle it the way you would with
> >> any brand name, by putting the trademark after the generic name of the
> >> product, such as "krmivo Hill's Science Diet" or "krmivo Science Diet".
> >>
> >> The main thing is that you not add suffixes to anything inside the brand
> >> name.
> >>
> >> Jamie
> >>
> >> On Jan 3, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
> >>
> >>> A quick ceck with native speakers please, when a brand is "somebody's
> >>> something",
> >>> (Hill's Science pet food in this case), can I use "Hill's Science's cat
> >>> food" etc?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks a lot
> >>>
> >>> Matej
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Translators' tricks of the trade:
> >> http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Translators' tricks of the trade:
> > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jsem chráněn bezplatným SPAMfighter pro soukromé uživatele.
> Až doposud mě ušetřil příjmu 1596 spam-emailů.
> Platící uživatelé tuto zprávu ve svých e-mailech nedostavají.
> Stáhněte si zadarmo SPAMfighter zde: www.spamfighter.com/lcs
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Novorocni darek = vysledek testovani Snehove koule, na kterou upozornil v
anglicke skupine Wordfastu Yves Champollion

http://www.condak.net/cat_other/snowball/cs/00.html

(Omlouvam se za titulek, cesti rodili mluvci znaji televizn� scenku. Otec se
chlubi inteligentnim synem, kter� se podival z okna a rekl "Pada nih, budeme
stavet huhulala". Host nazor pochvalil a zeptal se, kolik let ma syn.
Ctrnact.)

Milan

Ahoj kolegove,
musim se priznat, ze miluji preklady z cinske anglictiny. Je vzdy tak
vzrusujici!
Ale ted vazne. Mam prelozit tento vykrik: Network connect
Zajimalo by mne, jak byste to prelozili.

Sarka

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bez kontextu dost tezko.

Pripoj s�t!
Pripojen� s�te
S�tov� pripojen� (spojen�)
atd.

Honza


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Sarka Rubkova
   To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 1:23 PM
   Subject: [Czechlist] �Oínská angličtina



   Ahoj kolegove,
   musim se priznat, ze miluji preklady z cinske anglictiny. Je vzdy tak
   vzrusujici!
   Ale ted vazne. Mam prelozit tento vykrik: Network connect
   Zajimalo by mne, jak byste to prelozili.

   Sarka

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To je dobre, ze si to uzivas. Je to obcas detektivni prace. S japonskou
anglictinou to je totez.

Napada mne Sitove pripojeni (pokud se to hodi do kramu)



Jirka



   _____

From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Sarka Rubkova
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 1:23 PM
To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Czechlist] ��nsk� angli�tina





Ahoj kolegove,
musim se priznat, ze miluji preklady z cinske anglictiny. Je vzdy tak
vzrusujici!
Ale ted vazne. Mam prelozit tento vykrik: Network connect
Zajimalo by mne, jak byste to prelozili.

Sarka

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To je prave ono, zadny kontext tam neni

sarka

-------Original Message-------

From: Jan Culka
Date: 5.1.2010 13:37:01
To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ÄOínská angličtina


Bez kontextu dost tezko.

Pripoj sít!
Pripojení síte
Sítové pripojení (spojení)
atd.

Honza

----- Original Message -----
From: Sarka Rubkova
To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 1:23 PM
Subject: [Czechlist] ÄOínská angličtina

Ahoj kolegove,
musim se priznat, ze miluji preklady z cinske anglictiny. Je vzdy tak
vzrusujici!
Ale ted vazne. Mam prelozit tento vykrik: Network connect
Zajimalo by mne, jak byste to prelozili.

Sarka

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My first assumption would be that "Network connect" is a software feature that
helps a computer user connect and configure to a network.  I believe I've seen
that expression used for that in real English also.

Otherwise you just have to guess from context.

Jamie

On Jan 5, 2010, at 7:23 AM, Sarka Rubkova wrote:

> Ahoj kolegove,
> musim se priznat, ze miluji preklady z cinske anglictiny. Je vzdy tak
> vzrusujici!
> Ale ted vazne. Mam prelozit tento vykrik: Network connect
> Zajimalo by mne, jak byste to prelozili.
>
> Sarka
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Can anyone tell me which silnice in the Pardubice area would be abbreviated as
"Srch. sil."?

Thanks very much.

Jamie

There is a village named Srch, so Srchovska, perhaps?
Alena

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: James Kirchner
   To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:49 PM
   Subject: [Czechlist] Srch. sil.



   Can anyone tell me which silnice in the Pardubice area would be abbreviated as
"Srch. sil."?

   Thanks very much.

   Jamie



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you, Alena.

Jamie

On Jan 5, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Alena Ryskov� 2e wrote:

> There is a village named Srch, so Srchovska, perhaps?
> Alena
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James Kirchner
> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:49 PM
> Subject: [Czechlist] Srch. sil.
>
> Can anyone tell me which silnice in the Pardubice area would be abbreviated as
"Srch. sil."?
>
> Thanks very much.
>
> Jamie
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi there,
Does anyone know what they call "Wundaweb" (iron-on hem tape) in Czech or even
if it is possible to buy it anywhere in Prague?
MTIA
Coilin

You usually get a long length of it when you buy curtains at Ikea :-)  I think
you can buy a roll of it separately in their fabric department.

I am sure you can buy it in normal galanterie as well.

HTH,
Jen
On 6.1.2010, at 12:23, coilinoc wrote:

> Hi there,
> Does anyone know what they call "Wundaweb" (iron-on hem tape) in Czech or even
if it is possible to buy it anywhere in Prague?
> MTIA
> Coilin
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Coilin!
I do not know the official term, but I would call it something like "nazehlovaci
(o)lemovaci paska". HTH.
Regards,
Jarda

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: coilinoc
   To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:23 PM
   Subject: [Czechlist] Wundaweb (Chat)



   Hi there,
   Does anyone know what they call "Wundaweb" (iron-on hem tape) in Czech or even
if it is possible to buy it anywhere in Prague?
   MTIA
   Coilin





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Urcite jsme o tom uz mluvili, nema nekdo v rukavu vseobjimajici a pritom
prirozene znejici CZ vyraz, ktery by obsahnul nasledujici (a i pripadne ostatni)
vyznamy slova HOSPITALITY:

- hotelovy prumysl
- sluzba hostum
- pohostinnost (byt prijemny na hosty)

...atd.

Pohostinsti/pohostinnost mi zni jako z 19 stoleti a pan hostinsky v hospode na
navsi, ale je fakt ze se tezko hleda neco univerzalniho, alespon me to z fleku
ne a ne napadnout, i kdyz vim ze uz jsem to urcite resil..

Dik za napady


Matej

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jako univerzalni pojem to nepomuze, ale napada mne ochota a vstricnost
(personalu atp.)
Alena

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Matej Klimes
   To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:31 PM
   Subject: [Czechlist] Hospitality



   Urcite jsme o tom uz mluvili, nema nekdo v rukavu vseobjimajici a pritom
prirozene znejici CZ vyraz, ktery by obsahnul nasledujici (a i pripadne ostatni)
vyznamy slova HOSPITALITY:

   - hotelovy prumysl
   - sluzba hostum
   - pohostinnost (byt prijemny na hosty)

   ...atd.

   Pohostinsti/pohostinnost mi zni jako z 19 stoleti a pan hostinsky v hospode na
navsi, ale je fakt ze se tezko hleda neco univerzalniho, alespon me to z fleku
ne a ne napadnout, i kdyz vim ze uz jsem to urcite resil..

   Dik za napady

   Matej

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If I understand it right,
this is something my mother used to buy 30 yrs ago under trade name vliselin
(vlizelin?). It is inserted between two pieces of fabric and sticks them
together when ironed with a few strokes.
Otherwise if you say you need a nazehlovaci paska, everyone should understand.
(vliselin is "oboustranna n.p.", in some cases "jednostranna" would do)
hth
Alena

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: coilinoc
   To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:23 PM
   Subject: [Czechlist] Wundaweb (Chat)



   Hi there,
   Does anyone know what they call "Wundaweb" (iron-on hem tape) in Czech or even
if it is possible to buy it anywhere in Prague?
   MTIA
   Coilin





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks a lot Alena and Jarda,�
I have been looking for this for a while and have never known what to call it.
Brgds
Coilin

--- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Alena Ryskov� 2e <preklady@...> wrote:
>
> If I understand it right,
> this is something my mother used to buy 30 yrs ago under trade name vliselin
(vlizelin?). It is inserted between two pieces of fabric and sticks them
together when ironed with a few strokes.
> Otherwise if you say you need a nazehlovaci paska, everyone should understand.
(vliselin is "oboustranna n.p.", in some cases "jednostranna" would do)
> hth
> Alena
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: coilinoc
>   To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:23 PM
>   Subject: [Czechlist] Wundaweb (Chat)
>
>
>
>   Hi there,
>   Does anyone know what they call "Wundaweb" (iron-on hem tape) in Czech or
even if it is possible to buy it anywhere in Prague?
>   MTIA
>   Coilin
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thanks Jen
Coilin

--- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Hejtmankova <jenhejt@...> wrote:
>
> You usually get a long length of it when you buy curtains at Ikea :-)  I think
you can buy a roll of it separately in their fabric department.
>
> I am sure you can buy it in normal galanterie as well.
>
> HTH,
> Jen
> On 6.1.2010, at 12:23, coilinoc wrote:
>
> > Hi there,
> > Does anyone know what they call "Wundaweb" (iron-on hem tape) in Czech or
even if it is possible to buy it anywhere in Prague?
> > MTIA
> > Coilin
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

You can buy it in IKEA where they have curtains and fabrics - it is called
"zazehlovaci kaloun SY". I always buy it there and have not had to do any sewing
for ages!
Good luck,

ZORA

--- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "coilinoc" <coilinoc@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there,
> Does anyone know what they call "Wundaweb" (iron-on hem tape) in Czech or even
if it is possible to buy it anywhere in Prague?
> MTIA
> Coilin
>

Hi there,
Could anyone perhaps suggest an English translation of "delikatni" that wouldn't
sound dumb in English, without being too "free"...
MTIA for any ideas
Brgds
Coilin

What about delicious?
The client might like it

sarka

-------Original Message-------

From: coilinoc
Date: 7.1.2010 23:04:23
To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Czechlist] Help: delikatni veprove kolinko


Hi there,
Could anyone perhaps suggest an English translation of "delikatni" that
wouldn't sound dumb in English, without being too "free"...
MTIA for any ideas
Brgds
Coilin





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Or else, tender?

Martin

Sarka Rubkova napsal(a):
>
>
> What about delicious?
> The client might like it
>
> sarka
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: coilinoc
> Date: 7.1.2010 23:04:23
> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Czechlist] Help: delikatni veprove kolinko
>
>
> Hi there,
> Could anyone perhaps suggest an English translation of "delikatni" that
> wouldn't sound dumb in English, without being too "free"...
> MTIA for any ideas
> Brgds
> Coilin
>
>

Hi there,
Does anyone know precisely what is meant by this menu item (it's included in a
list of side orders/prilohy)?
Do they simply mean condiments or is it something more specific...?
MTIA
Coilin