Jsem majitelem starsi verze (1998). Souhlasim s tim, ze jeho databaze je
fakt rozsahla, na druhou stranu terminy (pokud nejsou vyloupene z tistenych
a jinych slovniku, coz mnohdy jsou) nemaji prilis overene a tudiz mam obcas
pri jejich pouziti mirne mrazeni v zadech. O tom vylupovani se tu uz tusim
obsirne psalo, takze to nebudu rozvadet. Co mne vsak mirne zarazi, je strme
stoupajici cena tohoto jiste prozoruhodneho produktu. Kdyz jsem ho pred tema
dvema lety kupoval, stal asi sedm tisic. Nevim, o kolik procent se databaze
od te doby rozrostla, ale vzestup ceny na dvaapulnasobek se mi jevi jako
docela silne kafe (podotykam, ze mam taky multilicenci, tudiz vsechny
moduly). A k tem nabizenym terminum - pripada mi, ze oni si za svou databazi
nechavaji velmi slusne zaplatit - proc jim tedy sve terminy posilat zdarma,
aby je pak suse prodavali dal? Kdyz uz, tak co se treba spojit a nechat si
za poradnou databazi poradne taky zaplatit (treba aspon licenci zdarma nebo
s poradnou slevou?)

Martin

P.S. Ooops, I ´ve just realized your contribution was in English and I
should respond in the same way. Hope you and the others won´t mind.


> Dear colleagues,
> 1)    A brief introduction: My name is Martin Tlusty, I translate
technical
> texts preferably from English, and am glad that I may be in contact with
> you.
> 2)    We have bought a big e-dictionary Millennium (by Commercial Service,
> Brno, e-mail: cservice@..., web page: www.clavis.cz/service). It
> contains general terms, but mainly technical ones. After my first
> experiences, I have sent my comments to its producer. Bellow, I am sending
> you a copy of these comments for case that somebody would be also
interested
> in it. It is essential for a translator to have a good dictionary, so I am
> sharing my experience with you, too. I am glad for having bought this
> dictionary. For our (biggest possible) version we paid Kc 17000,-, but I
> think it is worth of it. I am not their dealer. I neither care if you buy
it
> or not, at all. I just want to share sincerely what helps me and what is
not
> so perfect.
> Bye, bye, Martin Tlusty.
>
> COPY OF MY COMMENTS TO THE DICTIONARY PRODUCER:
> Pro: Ing. Kloferu
> Vážený pane inženýre !
> Chci se podělit o své první zkušenosti s vaším slovníkem Millennium.
Můžete
> je, prosím, eventuelně předat i dalším kolegům, kteří na vylepšování
> slovníku pracují?
> 1)    KLADY:  Nejdříve chci zdůraznit, že váš slovník je opravdu skvělý,
jak
> slovní zásoba, tak ovládání. Systém ikonek, označujících u termínů jejich
> obor je také moc užitečný. V každém případě jste měl pravdu, že s ním
budeme
> spokojeni a je to nejlepší slovník, jaký jsem kdy viděl.
> 2)    MOJE TERMÍNY:  Pokud narazím na termíny, které ve slovníku chybí a
já
> je znám, mělo by cenu posílat vám je? Stojíte o ně? Pokud ano, v jakém
> formátu a formě?
> 3)    MOŽNÁ VYLEPŠENÍ (a, b, c, d, e) :
> a)    Hierarchie termínů pro jedno slovíčko: V normálním slovníku jsou u
> každého slovíčka seřazeny hlavní možné překlady ne abecedně (jako u vás),
> ale podle důležitosti, výstižnosti, přesnosti, obvyklosti, nebo jak to
> chcete nazvat. Tady jsou si "rovnocenné" a hlavní výhoda
slovníku -obrovský
> rozsah- pak jen zvětšuje obtížnost volby, který význam vybrat jako ten
> nejpravděpodobnější. S tím se ale asi nedá nic dělat. (?).
> Nebo že by alespoň u některých (nově zařazovaných?) termínů mohl být třeba
> index 1 až 3, označující alespoň první tři hlavní významy - u
nejhlavnějšího
> "1", u dalšího "2" a u třetího hlavního "3"? Pokud by byl index před
> termínem, mohlo by ho to v abecedně seřazené skupině automaticky řadit na
> začátek (ještě před "a").
> b)    Počítačové termíny: Teď se rojí a používá čím dál víc počítačových
> termínů. S tím se asi už nic nenadělá. Možná by si zasloužily jednak
> rozšířit zásobu a jednak dostat vlastní ikonku. (Myslel jsem, že ta
> "speciální" ikona disku je právě pro počítačovou terminologii, ale asi to
> neodpovídá.)
> c)    Zkratky:  Když najde člověk složený termín, vždycky ho nějak
přeloží,
> ale když najde zkratku, kterou nezná a není ani ve slovníku, nemá se čeho
> chytit. Proto bych se přimlouval za co největší důraz na zařazování právě
> zkratek. Možná jich tam je relativně dost, ale ty, co chybějí, jsou pak
> velkým problémem.
> d)    Možnost stopnout hledání novým hledáním: Při překlepu nebo když
předem
> poznáte neúspěch (díky úžasné funkci -že je dole na liště vidět průběh
> hledání- tj. když zadáte sousloví slov a vidíte, jak program postupně
> "užírá" písmenka, která nenalezl). Přesto ale musíte čekat, až hledání
> proběhne. Možná, že se s tím nedá nic dělat, možná, že tam ta funkce je,
jen
> o ní nevíme a možná, že to čekání nebude hrát takovou roli, až budeme mít
> rychlejší PC.
> e)    Podobná slova: Myslím, že slovník neumí funkci "najít podobné slovo,
> které nemá stejný začátek, ale jinak je celé podobné". I obyčejná
> "kalkulačka" Wordmaster nabízí slova, která se píší jinak, ale foneticky
> znějí podobně (bez ohledu na to, jak začínají). Tento program myslím jen
> "užírá" písmena od konce tak dlouho, dokud nenajde slovo, které má stejný
> začátek a to pak nabídne. V tom okamžiku už program ale myslím "nemá ani
> ponětí", jak slovo vypadalo původně.
> 4)    ZÁVĚR:  Neberte mé připomínky, prosím, jako kritiku, jen jako
> postřehy, jak ještě vylepšit nejlepší slovník co znám, aby si toto
postavení
> udržel vždy s jasnou převahou.
> Děkujeme, Martin Tlustý a Kateřina Tlustá, tlustymartin@....
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.
> Remember the good 'ol days
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/6/_/628910/_/960138314/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Czech<>English translation resources page:
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html
>
> Czechlist archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/messages/Czechlist
>
> Czechlist homepage:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Czechlist
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: Czechlist@egroups.com
>   Subscribe:    Czechlist-subscribe@egroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Czechlist-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>   Digest:       Czechlist-digest@egroups.com
>   List owner:   Czechlist-owner@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hi all,

> I am almost sure that you could use "permanent" for the Czech "vecny"

Seems to me that the original term in question was "ve^cny'" (where
Poldauf lists terms such as "material", "businesslike", "factual", etc.),
as opposed to "ve^c^ny'" ("everlasting", "eternal", "unending",...)


Regards, Joe

--
Mailto: Josef "Joe" Hlavac <joe@...>
	 or <hlavacj2@...>
Phone: +420-604-564425
HTTP: www.hw-server.com
--

Hello all,

Let me introduce myself to those who haven't met me Wednesday: My name is
Joe Most of the time (besides studying)  I translate technical texts -
electronics and computers in particular.

Joe

--
Mailto: Josef "Joe" Hlavac <joe@...>
	 or <hlavacj2@...>
Phone: +420-604-564425
HTTP: www.hw-server.com
--

>I am almost sure that you could use "permanent" for the Czech "vecny"

I think the question was about ve<cny, not ve<c<ny.
Michael

--
BLUE DANUBE international communication services
The Central and East European Language Source!
<http://www.bdanube.com>, <mailto:bdanube@...>
Tel. (+1-817) 577-5239, Fax (817) 514-6413

>My name is
>Joe Most of the time

What's your name the rest of the time?
;-)
Michael

--
BLUE DANUBE international communication services
The Central and East European Language Source!
<http://www.bdanube.com>, <mailto:bdanube@...>
Tel. (+1-817) 577-5239, Fax (817) 514-6413

>I had a little drink
>for each of you. Hope it tasted OK.

I was wondering why I was feeling so tipsy....
:-)
Michael

--
BLUE DANUBE international communication services
The Central and East European Language Source!
<http://www.bdanube.com>, <mailto:bdanube@...>
Tel. (+1-817) 577-5239, Fax (817) 514-6413

>  >The German word "Strasseneinraumer" means "cestář" (road worker?) in Czech.

Diky! Poldauf gives "road-mender" for "cestar".
Michael

--
BLUE DANUBE international communication services
The Central and East European Language Source!
<http://www.bdanube.com>, <mailto:bdanube@...>
Tel. (+1-817) 577-5239, Fax (817) 514-6413

> >I had a little drink
> >for each of you. Hope it tasted OK.
>
> I was wondering why I was feeling so tipsy....
> :-)
> Michael

Well, next time we should meet at Michael´s place in Texas.
By the way, it is where the international airport is, am I right?

Kostas

>Well, next time we should meet at Michael´s place in Texas.
>By the way, it is where the international airport is, am I right?

I live about a 20-minute drive from the airport. But there's a good
chance we'll be moving to Austin soon, which is about 3 hours south.
(Those who knew me in Prague may remember that my agency there was
named after the city of Austin.) Either way, you're all welcome to
visit any time you're on this side of the ditch!

Michael

--
BLUE DANUBE international communication services
The Central and East European Language Source!
<http://www.bdanube.com>, <mailto:bdanube@...>
Tel. (+1-817) 577-5239, Fax (817) 514-6413

Dear colleagues,
Because I have sent you my comments to the use of dictionary Millenium, I am
sending you (below) also the answers that I have received:
Response to Martin Janda: thanks for your commentary. I only want to specify
that my version (for Kc 17000) includes also a military dictionary (for Kc
3000) beside standard modules general, business, legal, technical, chemical,
medical and  natural sciences.

Vážený pane Tlustý,
mé odpovědi najdete ve Vašem textu níže.

-----Původní zpráva-----
Od: Martin Tlustý <tlustymartin@...>
Komu: C. Service K&K <cservice@...>
Datum: 4. června 2000 19:32
Předmět: 1. zkušenosti se slovníkem

Pro: Ing. Kloferu
Vážený pane inženýre !
Chci se podělit o své první zkušenosti s vaším slovníkem Millenium. Můžete
je, prosím, eventuelně předat i dalším kolegům, kteří na vylepšování
slovníku pracují?
1)    KLADY:  Nejdříve chci zdůraznit, že váš slovník je opravdu skvělý, jak
slovní zásoba, tak ovládání. Systém ikonek, označujících u termínů jejich
obor je také moc užitečný. V každém případě jste měl pravdu, že s ním budeme
spokojeni a je to nejlepší slovník, jaký jsem kdy viděl.
2)    MOJE TERMÍNY:  Pokud narazím na termíny, které ve slovníku chybí a já
je znám, mělo by cenu posílat vám je? Stojíte o ně? Pokud ano, v jakém
formátu a formě?

Stojíme o ně, ale až těsně před INVEXEM. Máme strašně moc jiné práce s UPG.

3)    MOŽNÁ VYLEPŠENÍ (a, b, c, d, e) :
a)    Hierarchie termínů pro jedno slovíčko: V normálním slovníku jsou u
každého slovíčka seřazeny hlavní možné překlady ne abecedně (jako u vás),
ale podle důležitosti, výstižnosti, přesnosti, obvyklosti, nebo jak to
chcete nazvat.
Tady jsou si "rovnocenné" a hlavní výhoda slovníku -obrovský rozsah- pak jen
zvětšuje obtížnost volby, který význam vybrat jako ten nejpravděpodobnější.
S tím se ale asi nedá nic dělat. (?). Že by alespoň u některých (nově
zařazovaných?) termínů byl třeba index 1 až 3, označující alespoň první tři
hlavní významy - u nejhlavnějšího "1", u dalšího "2" a u třetího hlavního
"3"? Pokud by byl index před termínem, mohlo by ho to v abecedně seřazené
skupině automaticky řadit na začátek (ještě před "a").

Toto je práce na 10 let pro tým lidí. Zatí to nelze. Pokud nevíte použití
slova, musíte použít idiomy a fráze ve kterých se používá.

b)    Počítačové termíny: Teď se rojí a používá čím dál víc počítačových
termínů. S tím se asi už nic nenadělá. Možná by si zasloužily jednak
rozšířit zásobu a jednak dostat vlastní ikonku. (Myslel jsem, že ta
"speciální" ikona disku je právě pro počítačovou terminologii, ale asi to
neodpovídá.)

"Speciální" jsou netechnické obory - psychologie, umění...
Počítačové termíny jsou v technickém

c)    Zkratky:  Když najde člověk složený termín, vždycky ho nějak přeloží,
ale když najde zkratku, kterou nezná a není ani ve slovníku, nemá se čeho
chytit. Proto bych se přimlouval za co největší důraz na zařazování právě
zkratek. Možná jich tam je relativně dost, ale ty, co chybějí, jsou pak
velkým problémem.

Snažíme se doplňovat v UPG.

d)    Možnost stopnout hledání novým hledáním: Při překlepu nebo když předem
poznáte neúspěch (díky úžasné funkci -že je dole na liště vidět průběh
hledání- tj. když zadáte sousloví slov a vidíte, jak program postupně
"užírá" písmenka, která nenalezl). Přesto ale musíte čekat, až hledání
proběhne. Možná, že se s tím nedá nic dělat, možná, že tam ta funkce je, jen
o ní nevíme a možná, že to čekání nebude hrát takovou roli, až budeme mít
rychlejší PC.

Nutno zakoupit nové DELPHI, kde to asi už bude. Zatím Nelze.

e)    Podobná slova: Myslím, že slovník neumí funkci "najít podobné slovo,
které nemá stejný začátek, ale jinak je celé podobné". I obyčejná
"kalkulačka" Wordmaster nabízí slova, která se píší jinak, ale foneticky
znějí podobně (bez ohledu na to, jak začínají). Tento program myslím jen
"užírá" písmena od konce tak dlouho, dokud nenajde slovo, které má stejný
začátek a to pak nabídne. V tom okamžiku už program ale myslím "nemá ani
ponětí", jak slovo vypadalo původně.

Snad v dalších verzích PGM.
Stáhněte si z INTERNETU poslední verzi, je mnohem rychlejší díky fokusu,
který se přenáší z WORDU na slovník. Nové hledání zleva i zprava, clipboard
z a do něj, nekonečná historie v souboru...

4)    ZÁVĚR:  Neberte mé připomínky, prosím, jako kritiku, jen jako
postřehy, jak ještě vylepšit nejlepší slovník co znám, aby si toto postavení
udržel vždy s jasnou převahou.
Děkujeme, Martin Tlustý a Kateřina Tlustá, tlustymartin@...

Hi,

>Seems to me that the original term in question was "ve^cny'" (where
>Poldauf lists terms such as "material", "businesslike", "factual", etc.),
>as opposed to "ve^c^ny'" ("everlasting", "eternal", "unending",...)

I didn't realize when writing my query that "vecna napln" (ve'cna napln')
may also be understood as a "permanent re-fill" - sorry, I should've used
the "diacriticals"... :-)
Thanks to everyone for the comments!
Irena

> >Joe Most of the time
>
> What's your name the rest of the time?
> ;-)

hehe :)))))) - it's funny what a missing period can cause :)))

Joe
--
Mailto: Josef "Joe" Hlavac <joe@...>
	 or <hlavacj2@...>
Phone: +420-604-564425
HTTP: www.hw-server.com
--

Hi Martin,

the producer's answer shows clearly his attitude to the customers.
Note especially:
>>2)   MOJE TERMÍNY:  Pokud narazím na termíny, které ve slovníku chybí a já
>>je znám, mělo by cenu posílat vám je? Stojíte o ně? Pokud ano, v jakém
>>formátu a formě?
>Stojíme o ně, ale až těsně před INVEXEM. Máme strašně moc jiné práce s UPG.

I have this dictionary (the former version). I hate their style of full
version activation. When you, e.g. refresh Windows or do some reinstallation
like that, you need to phone or e-mail them for a new activating
alphanumeric combination, which may freeze the dictionary even for several
days. Anyhow, to be honest, the dictionary is comprehensive and it helps me
a lot. The other question is the legality - I've heard ugly things about
their concern on copyright. I would never send them a word - the
lexicographic work should be their job! For the moment, they seem to be
rather gold-diggers.

Regards

Vlasta

P.S.
Melvyn and the others,
I was so sorry for not being with you in KZ :,-(
---
Odchozí zpráva neobsahuje viry.
Zkontrolováno antivirovým systémem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz).
Verze: 6.0.151 / Virová báze: 72 - datum vydání: 19.5.2000

Some links I promised to provide when laying on the grass of the Melvyn´s
place and chatting with the others.

www.copernic.com - a searching tool sending your query at once to about 10
searching engines including Alta Vista, Lycos, .... (not Google, I´m a
afraid, at least  the obsolete version I am using). You don´t need to browse
them one after another.  For free (LIght version).

.http://www.logophilia.com/WordSpy/  Welcome to The Word Spy! This Web site
and its associated mailing list are devoted to recently-coined words,
existing words that
have enjoyed a recent renaissance, and older words that are now
being used in new ways. Each weekday, The Word Spy presents a new
word, its definition, and a citation (usually from a major
newspaper or magazine) that shows how people are using the word.


And several e-zins  advising you of what´s up on the  Web or how to tackle
with your PC and its applications.

WordTips bringing some info how to use your macros and eliminate some
problems and bugs.  www.VitalNews.com/WordTips/
(they have similar e-zins for Excel and perhaps Outlook).

I subscribe to Free Pint (http://www.freepint.co.uk), which describes itself
as a free fortnightly newsletter written by information professionals who
share how they find quality and reliable information on the Internet. There
is something very chatty and jolly about this newsletter and I think it's
quite an entertaining read as well as being very useful for anyone who uses
the Web for their work.

Naked PC comes out every other week. You can subscribe by
visiting < http://www.TheNakedPC.com >. Give it a try; I'm sure
you'll like it.

HIH
Martin

Here's another one:

http://www.theslot.com

Joe

--
Mailto: Josef "Joe" Hlavac <joe@...>
	 or <hlavacj2@...>
Phone: +420-604-564425
HTTP: www.hw-server.com
--

Melvyn Clarke wrote:

> We drank a toast to absent listmates: Michael, John, Jirka, Vladimir,
> Vlasta, Mirek, Gerry,
> Todd, all the Martins and others and hope you can join us for some future
> meeting. I had a little drink
> for each of you. Hope it tasted OK.

Jirka's quite a common first name in these latitudes (and longitudes), at
least in my generation (another timespace dimension to the two prior ones),
but I suspect the one mentioned above is myself. How nice of you, Melv, to
remember the absent ones. Thanks. I hope I manage to make it to a gathering
one day. Most likely down in Prague.

Sorry my reply is a bit late (as usual, maybe), but being a grass pollen
allergy sufferer, I really had "my day" yesterday (after the ladies'
sanitaion stuff and guys' booze stuff in [Czech] TV commercials).

So long....

Jirka

Dear colleagues,
Thank you all for your experiences with the dictionary and for all your
information. I am (always) willing to contribute/participate at any useful
action (like sharing terms), if I am able.
MORE TO MY INTRODUCTION: I wrote that I translate technical texts,
preferably from English. (When I translate to English, I must control myself
more, because I am able to violate English grammar, I think.) I can specify
my specializations: mainly Civil Engineering, Ecology, and Mechanical
Engineering. I am little bit expert also in the Evangelical Christian terms,
because I have interpreted Evangelical preachings for about 10 years. I want
to share a bit concerning this specialization, because I think it is more
rare:

EVANGELICAL TERMS:
I have experience that many excellent translators, who are very good in all
other areas, are able to use theological terms (especially
evangelical/protestant type) in an absolutely crazy way. If I exaggerate it,
they are able to translate:
"The church met at 9:30 at the main train station and spent a beautiful
weekend at Martin?s country house." this way: "Kostel se setkal na nadrazi a
stravil krasny vikend na Martinove chalupe".
They once read that church=kostel and then they hold it up to the absurd
end. (Correct translation is certainly church = sbor/spolecenstvi. "Church"
is among Evangelical Christians normally never used for building. In such a
case they would specify it like "Church building". But even if it would mean
a building, the term "kostel" would not be correct, because Evangelical
churches, especially in Czech, have usually no "kostel", but more likely:
rented gymnastic hall, school, culture house, restaurant, former flat,
"modlitebnu", etc. This is because we were for 300 years occupied by
catholic Habsburgs when "kostely" were built only for catholics, and then
during communism no "kostely" were built at all. The only "kostel" built in
Prague during communism was Adventist´s "kostel" at Prague 5, Malvazinky,
but Adventist´s do not call it "kostel", but "modlitebna" anyway .
This was just a simple example. In the same way many translators use
incorrectly terms like redemption, resurrection, salvation, deliverance,
rapture (= "vytrzeni"), message ("in my message" means "v mem kazani" not "v
me zvesti", nor "v mem poselstvi"), Holy Spirit baptism (= "krest/naplneni
Duchem Svatym"), 2nd Pentecost ("druhe Letnice" = naplneni vsech clenu
Jednoty bratrske v Ochranove 13. srpna 1727 Duchem Svatym ve stejny okamzik,
vcetne clenu, kteri byli v ten okamzik ruzne roztrouseni na svych polich),
speaking in tongues (= "mluveni jazyky"), pastor (= "pastor" not "knez"),
crusade (is not "krizacka vyprava", but "evangelizacni kampan"), evangelism
(is "evangelizace", not "evangelismus"), crusade manager (is "organizator
evangelizace/evangelizacni kampane" not "reditel vypravy" or whatever),
Messianic Jew (= "mesiansky Zid" = Zid, ktery uveril v Jezise, neboli se
stal krestanem a ktery obvykle, ale ne nezbytne, nadale slavi zidovske
svatky, mimochodem jako Jezis, ktery je take slavil), Lord?s supper, Church
service, etc., etc.
If they use a theological term, they use a catholic one (like "prijimani"
instead of "vecere Pane" for "Lord?s supper" and "mse" instead of
"shromazdeni/bohosluzba" for "Church service/service").
Evangelical Christians have certainly no "kneze, no "mse" no "prijimani",
but also no "Otce"/"papeze" (according the Bible, where the only one allowed
to be called "Otec" is God), etc.
So I think that it is also important to clarify, if the author talks about
catholic or evangelic area, because it is not the same, at all.

NOTE for opposite direction in translation: I noticed that many Americans
think that "Bible Kralicka" means "King´s Bible" (like their "King James
Bible"), but it is simply a Bible, translated (by the excellent team of
translators, including former Jews -"Messianic Jews", speaking Hebrew of the
Old Testament) in the village "Kralice", having nothing to do with
"kral/king".
By the way: many foreigners talk about Charles Bridge and Charles University
like if they were named after some Saint Charles, but Karel IV is not a
catholic "saint", but a king, in this case.

Bye, bye, Martin Tlusty

Hi Martin T,

Thank you for the information you decided to share with our group as well as
your pointing out the differences between roman-catholic and protestant
terminology.

I would like to add some more information and/or perhaps make it more
accurate.

church = 1) "sbor" is preferable among most denominations;
                 2) modlitebna

there is another word for modlitebna = house of prayers

Malvazinky, Praha 5 (CASD) is not "kostel"; being very large it is
"modlitebna" or better "sborovy dum".
It is NOT the only sacral building built during the communist period. By
heart, I can name Vsetin-Jasenka CB, Prešov CB, Bratislava (complete
reconstruction), Senetarov (1971) CRK, Horni Pocernice CB. Well it seem the
CB had a builing fever - hehe.

The term "Church service" should be translated either "bohosluzba" if it is
evangelicy service but "shromazdení" if it is evangelical.

Generally speaking translation of any theological text is as special work as
a text dealing with nuclear power station or geology research. It is
necessary to differentiate among roman-catholic, orthodox, evangelic
(evangelicky ! ), evangelical (evangelikalni !) texts and translate
accordingly. The differences are even bigger if the text is written by a
member of marginal denominations or non-christian communities (Bahai,
Brabham church, Chasidim, Jewish - liberal, Jewish - orthodox, Jehovah
witness, Karaim, Masonry, Mormon, New Zion, Pentecostal church, Salvation
Army, Society of searchers - Martin, notice the alphabetical order, please).

An expert consultant and a good theological dictionary is usually necessary.

We should never translate biblical quotations (quotations from Koran,
Mormon, Bhagavad-Gita ...). The translator should find the quotation in a
national language version of the book.

I do not think it is necessary to be able to find Kralice village on a map
straight down on paper, but good knowledge of the Bible is necessary for any
Christian theological translation (the same holds true for Koran when
translating Islamic texts). However the fact that the translator is
Christian who can speak English does not mean the translation will be
correct. I have seen a lot of books, handbooks and texts translated into
very bad, old-fashioned or even grammatically incorrect Czech. One can find
hundreds of those in any shop selling religious literature.

bye

Bob

Irena asked:
> Is there any better term for "lev salonu" than a "lounge lizard",
>and isn't it too old-fashioned?


This is hardly a question for a non-native speaker, but I've always
felt that lounge lizard was a little deprecatory, which I don't feel
with lev salonu at all. There can also be only one lev salonu, can't
it, whereas lounge lizards can be numerous at the same moment, can't
they?

Poured more oil into the fire
					 has
					 FuryAtLooseCreatesOblivion

>Hi,
Is there any better term for "lev salonu" than a "lounge lizard", and isn't
it too old-fashioned? (Lev salonu is also quite outdated though...)
Any ideas?
Irena

Hi,
A lot depends on which aspect of the phrase you wish to bring out. Old
Poldauf translates
"lev salonu" as "lady-killer" but I think this only captures a part of the
meaning. I also have
images of a socialite, a convivial person, a bon viveur, a man about town, a
member of the
glitterati and "the life and soul of the party".

My Dictionary of Phrase and Fable describes "lounge lizard" as a popular
phrase used in the
1920s to describe a young man who made his living by dancing and waiting
upon elderly
women. This perhaps overlaps just a little with your "lev salonu". Synonyms
might be gigolo,
gallant and indeed lady-killer (or ladykiller).

I'd agree with Falco that you can have a lounge swarming with lounge-lizards
but if he is
right that there can only be one lion for every salon then perhaps "he's the
life and soul of the
party" would best capture this idea nowadays - with salons being so few and
far between.

Think of Bob and you get the idea:).

Incidently, even if it sounds old-fashioned, genteel, affected or
tongue-in-cheek, "lion" can be
used figuratively to mean a social celebrity, hence a "lion-hunter" is a
host or hostess who
courts celebrities and "to lionize" means to fete somebody and treat him as
a celebrity.




Melvyn
Raconteur extraordinaire, bon viveur and something of a social lion.

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ONE more thank you for the sunny and relaxed Saturday and the warm
welcome of outsiders... Mr Smiths should have at least 5 great kids
by now...
Thanks,

Monika and Zoltan

You should have read Martin T.'s message more carefully, Bob!

In it, he said:

> The only "kostel" built __in Prague__ during communism was Adventist´s
"kostel" at Prague 5,   Malvazinky, but Adventist´s do __not__ call it
"kostel", but __"modlitebna"__ anyway.

So, you are shadow-boxing when you say:

> Malvazinky, Praha 5 (CASD) is not "kostel"; being very large it is
"modlitebna" or better "sborovy dum". It is NOT the only sacral building
built during the communist period. By heart, I can name Vsetin-Jasenka CB,
Prešov CB, Bratislava (complete reconstruction), Senetarov (1971) CRK, Horni
Pocernice CB. Well it seem the CB had a builing fever - hehe.

> there is another word for modlitebna = house of prayers

"house of prayer" (it's "essless")

Simon

In a message dated 07/Jun/2000 15:00:59 GMT Daylight Time, amoeba@...
writes:

> any ideas how to deal with the word "fandidlo" and "tleskadlo"

Marcela,
This calls for original thought. My suggestion for fandidlo would be
fandangle, which has the advantage of being similar-sounding, as well as
incorporating the word fan and the equally expressive dangle. Also, it's not
a nonsense word: fandangle means a crazy ornament, which is exactly what this
is.
Regarding tleskadlo, how about claphandle (clap-handle). Again, this is
expressive, and, like the Czech original, almost rhymes.
Just an idea.

John

John, I bow in admiration - thanks for the linguistic acrobatics....I do not
want to say you are a cunning linguist (one of my favorite puns in
English...hope I'm not too expressive myself)

Marcela

amoeba@...
linkova@...
0604/239 802

----- Original Message -----
From: <JNewton149@...>
To: <Czechlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Czechlist] advertising


> In a message dated 07/Jun/2000 15:00:59 GMT Daylight Time, amoeba@...
> writes:
>
> > any ideas how to deal with the word "fandidlo" and "tleskadlo"
>
> Marcela,
> This calls for original thought. My suggestion for fandidlo would be
> fandangle, which has the advantage of being similar-sounding, as well as
> incorporating the word fan and the equally expressive dangle. Also, it's
not
> a nonsense word: fandangle means a crazy ornament, which is exactly what
this
> is.
> Regarding tleskadlo, how about claphandle (clap-handle). Again, this is
> expressive, and, like the Czech original, almost rhymes.
> Just an idea.
>
> John
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Old school buds here:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4057/6/_/628910/_/960402145/
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>
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Hi, Melvyn,
Hope you had nice time there in KZ.

I'm sending this message just to check whether one of my friends
successfully subscribed with Czechlist.

Regards,

Erdni

Hi Martin,

> Response to Martin Janda: thanks for your commentary. I only want to
specify
> that my version (for Kc 17000) includes also a military dictionary (for Kc
> 3000) beside standard modules general, business, legal, technical,
chemical,
> medical and  natural sciences.

O.K., you´ re right, I don´t have the military module (not that I would need
it). That leaves us with more than a double, not double-and-half of 1998
price. But true, perhaps the volume of data has been doubled as well.

As to the rest, if I am to sum up what the tech support says, it´s
"impossible, we can´t, perhaps in future".  Very similar to the response
I´ve got from them some one year later with another letter like this
(anyway, Mr. Klofera is still the same).

Martin

P.S: Don´t take me bad. I use the dictionary regularly and it´s a great
help,  in spite of its drawbacks.

I am expecting to receive a small job from En to Cz (a letter - 336 words).
The agency says the leter is quite important and they want me to have it
proofread (edited) by another translator. Is anybody interested in this? It
is something little over one page, and I will pay roughly the same as for
translation of a text of the same length (Czech market rates). The job HAS
NOT been approved yet.

Kostas

Hi Melvyn and FliesAndLizardsCanObtrude,

Thanks for very interesting ideas about lizards, lions and other nocturnal
creatures.
I know that there can hardly exist a single term in English which would
fully correspond with the Czech one.

BTW the "social lion" can also be found in Slovnik ceske frazeologie a
idiomatiky (which lists English, German, French and Russian equivalents if
there are any).

>>My Dictionary of Phrase and Fable describes "lounge lizard" as a popular
>phrase

Which dictionary - Brewer's?
>
Irena
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