Hi Melvyn,

my answer is "way below".

olda

Subject: RE: Czech Dictionaries

>Many English Dictionaries include etymology for most of their entries. In
many cases words are traced all the way to their Indo-Europen roots.

>It would appear that Czech Dictionaries (e.g. Travnicek) do not give word
etymolgy - even though Czech words must (and do) have their stories. Anyone
knows why this is so ? Or I just know little about newer Czech Dictionaries
?

Olda Bendl
Ontario

Hi Olda, welcome to the list. I can't give you any authoritative answers
but
I do have a couple of pet theories.

It seems to me that in the past, the etymology of a word was erroneously
believed to have some bearing on its 'correct' usage. Perhaps this belief
has been stronger in the English-speaking world than elsewhere. Perhaps we
Anglo-Saxons are haunted by a word's history more than we should be.

When Samuel Johnson was compiling his Dictionary of the English Language
(1775), I believe he was often swayed by the history of a word when making
one of his silly, arbitrary decisions on its spelling (yes, you can all
blame him:)). So he decided to stick a b in 'doubt' because the Latin word
had a b in it, even though nobody else had ever pronounced or written a b
in
the English word until he came along.

Even nowadays, reference to a word's earlier meaning can often influence
the
way an argument proceeds. In a recent TV debate on the way history should
be
taught in schools - whether the focus should be on 'facts' or 'methods' - a
supporter of the latter position referred to the 'real' meaning of history
as 'investigation' or 'learning by enquiry', as this was what was meant by
Greek historia, from which the modern term derives. Several people were
swayed by the point, and referred to it throughout the debate.

This view that an earlier meaning of a lexeme, or its original meaning, is
its 'true' or 'correct' one is called the etymological fallacy. The fallacy
is evident when it is realised that most common lexemes have experienced
several changes in meaning during their history. 'Nice', for example,
earlier meant 'fastidious', and before that 'foolish' or 'simple', and if
we
trace it back to the equivalent Latin form, 'nescius', the meaning is
'ignorant'.

Do people refer to the older meaning as the correct meaning quite so much
in
CZ??? Somehow I doubt it.

I think another point worth bearing in mind is that English is such a
hotch-potch mongrel language, there is quite an element of fun in guessing
if a word is of Celtic, Latin, Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian, Norman French,
Flemish, Romany etc origin and guessing the transmutations it has gone
through. Etymological dictionaries are full of fascinating information like
the fact that 'poppycock' comes from seventeenth-century Dutch 'pappe kak'
meaning 'soft dung'.

>- even though Czech words must (and do) have their stories.

_Does_ Czech really have anything to compete?

There is a modern Czech etymological dictionary. I have it at home. But I
won't be home till tomorrow evening so I can't tell you what it's called
till then.

:)

Melvyn


Hi Melvyn,

thank you very much for an interesting answer to my question.

I do agree that knowing etymology of a word can be in some cases misleading
- even though it is not so often. Perhaps situation is similar to
irregularities in English pronunciation ? I read recently that 80% of
English words have a regular pronuciation..... my source did mention
though "unfortunately those 20% with irregular pronunciation are rather
common English words"

I like etymology for its own sake, mainly, I guess (also my mother liked it
and whether we like it/want it or not, these things often do count...).

I like etymology - mainly with respect to Indo-European roots of words.
For example the story of "window&eye& (on the czech side) okno&oko" is
fascinating as far as I'm concerned. Must admit not everyone agrees with
me, I do tend to get blank stares .... but not giving up yet.

Thanks again.

olda

PS I'm in Ont. since 68, ing. in a nuclear station which is being sold by
Prov. of Ontario to the British Energy (or some such).