Briefly, again, Josip, this is an entirely incorrect assessment of my
work and my criticisms of religious fanaticism: "For me mental
illness is much more than just a person who I disagree with."

Frankly, that's just dismissive horseshit.

--- In Christ_Conspiracy@yahoogroups.com, Joseph <josip@v...> wrote:
>
> Dear Acharya,
>
> Give the lady a bar of gold from Fort Knox! You asked: "Perhaps we
> need a discussion as to what constitutes mental illness" First, I am
> not ignoring what you wrote.
>
> When medical personnel speak of mental illness they mean a
> psychiatric disorder. The criteria for diagnosing mental illnesses
> is listed in: DSM-IV-TR: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental
> Disorders. This is huge expensive book that is used worldwide.
>
> Some religious people are just pain in the a** jerks but are not
> people suffering from untreated psychiatric disorders. Example the
> Morman who rang my door bell at 1 AM to give me his holy book because
> the light was on is a pain in the a**.
>
> Encarta rightly states:
>
> No universally accepted definition of mental illness exists. In
> general, the definition of mental illness depends on a society's
> norms, or rules of behavior. Behaviors that violate these norms are
> considered signs of deviance or, in some cases, of mental illness.
>
> Because norms vary between cultures, behaviors considered signs of
> mental illness in one culture may be considered normal in other
> cultures. For example, in the United States, a person who experiences
> trance and possession states (altered
>
<http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761566888_2//encyclopedia_761572420/Conscio\
usness.html>states

> of consciousness) is usually diagnosed as suffering from a mental
> illness. Yet, in many non-Western countries, people consider such
> states an essential part of human experience. In Native American
> culture, it is common for people to hear the voices of recently
> deceased loved ones. In contrast, most mental health professionals in
> Western cultures would consider such behavior a possible symptom of
> schizophrenia or
>
<http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761566888_2//encyclopedia_761562671/Psychos\
is.html>psychosis.
>
> The BIG difference in normal versus abnormal is: Can the person carry
> out their daily activities and responsibilities to earn a living and
> care for those they are accountable for, yet believing Jesus Christ
> is real or anything else? Normal? Yes they are!!!! The nuns I
> endured in parochial school were well adjusted, smart dedicated
> people that gave me an education that was second to none. The bum
> talking to himself wearing a winter coat in July may very well be
> schizophrenia. The Church of Christ preacher next door who wants me
> to get baptized in his tank is barking up the wrong tree when he
> approaches me. His dress and Camrey in the driveway tells me he is
> earning a living and not mentally ill.
>
> The paranormal experiences, altered states of reality that my
> Blackfoot Indian relatives had in communicating with spirits were
> real and essential to the well being of the tribe. These people were
> not mentally ill or psychotic. Yet today the exploration of
> spiritual realities can cause a person to be mistakenly labeled
> mentally ill.
>
> For me mental illness is much more than just a person who I disagree
with.
> Josip
>
> At 08:09 PM 1/21/2006, you wrote:
> >Thanks for sharing your unusual background.
> >
> >Perhaps we need a discussion as to what constitutes mental illness,
> >but I'm certain that there are people who have spent much more time
> >around the mentally ill (without catching it?). (Unfortunately, I
> >have had a rather severe taste of it in my personal life as well...)
> >
> >I make a point to emphasize that it is not necessarily the belief but
> >the fanaticism with which people hold the belief. I have not said
> >that all "religious" people are mentally ill. If my books speak for
> >themselves, then so do the ranting and raving emails I have received
> >from disturbed individuals over the years. Can we agree that the
> >Inquisition, with its burning of infidels and assorted other tortures,
> >was a massive mental illness induced by religious fanaticism? That's
> >what I am discussing in the introduction of Christ Con. Do I single
> >out any individuals as being deranged? No, except perhaps Hitler and
> >Stalin, but few people would pronounce those two "sane." I speak of
> >ideology as making people deranged - and it clearly has. And
> >continues to do so.
> >
> >Do I believe that for someone to kill a human being in the name of God
> >is mental illness? I certainly do, and I wish more people did as
> >well, as I for one do not want to be killed by a deranged religious
> >fanatic merely because I do not subscribe to his mindless cult!
> >Religious fanaticism frequently dictates that all others must convert
> >or die, specifically because their presence on Earth is a bane to God,
> >who, evidently being powerless, must rely on human beings to clean up
> >his mistakes in creating evil and flawed creatures. Do I believe that
> >those individuals who take it upon themselves to crusade in the name
> >of God are mentally ill? If megalomania is a mental illness, then
> >individuals such as Pat Robertson are mentally ill, because he
> >seriously believes that he knows what God wants, and when things don't
> >work out in the way he believes they should, according to what HE
> >thinks God wants, he makes obnoxious and incendiary remarks. (And his
> >followers defend him by attacking the critics, claiming they are
> >"anti-Bible," as if Robertson has THE correct interpretation of that
> >book.)
> >
> >What is the difference between a homeless person who rambles on about
> >how God is talking to him and Pat Robertson, who likewise rambles on
> >about how God is talking to him? A bit of respectability, apparently.
> >Otherwise, there is no difference, and the homeless person will
> >likely end up in the psych ward, whereas Robertson will carry on,
> >encouraged by others in his megalomania.
> >
> >P.S. This whole issue could easily disappear, if the Fire stops
> >attacking me personally. And no, my disgust with the depiction of God
> >as portrayed in the Bible cult is NOT a personal attack on her. (It
> >does seem to me to be a sort of mania that someone believes a
> >criticism of an ideology - especially one as large and encompassing as
> >Christianity - is a "personal attack.")
> >
> >
> >--- In Christ_Conspiracy@yahoogroups.com, Joseph <josip@v...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Archaya,
> > >
> > > This could be fun. Lets see...
> > > I have NEVER written any books
> > > I have never been to Greece
> > > I have never darkened the door of a temple
> > > I am still learning English
> > > I have always avoided the religion section in the library
> > > I studied rocks to avoid dissection in college.
> > > I I majored in math to avoid reading Shakespeare
> > > And earned a living as a professional magician
> > > Did a tour of duty with the USGS refurbishing seismographs and
> > > visited the major mountain ranges worldwide
> > > Then went to post graduate school to learn to give and evaluate
> > > people using psychometric testing.
> > > Did my internship in the state mental hospital.
> > > Passed my state boards
> > > I have earned a living doing evaluations for the courts and in
> > > private practice also in a university hospital.
> > > In my line of work genius is only a hairs berth from insanity
> > >
> > > I don't like it when my clients follow me home.
> > >
> > > I do think you over do it when trying to paint religious people with
> > > the mental illness brush. Your introduction in The Christ Con was
> > > where I first noticed this. Psychosis and neurosis is very low
> > > among those individuals that have a relationship with a faith based
> > > religious community. The one religious group that has the highest
> > > rate of mentally ill members is the Watchtower Society. The Jehovah
> >Witnesses.
> > >
> > > So like I said your books speak for themselves
> > >
> > > Josip
> > > At 06:18 PM 1/21/2006, you wrote:
> > > >We could get into a very silly pissing contest here. Where are you
> > > >credentials to challenge my credentials?
> > > >
> > > >--- In Christ_Conspiracy@yahoogroups.com, Joseph <josip@v...>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Danny,
> > > > > The simple questions remains does Acharya have mental health
> > > > > credentials. I could care less about the arguments between
> >Acharya's
> > > > > enemies. Acharya's books stand up or fail on their content.
> > > > > Josip
> > > > > Joseph
> > > > > At 02:31 PM 1/21/2006, you wrote:
> > > > > >I don't mean to answer this question for Acharya; I wouldn't
> > > > > >presume. My comments are aimed at exposing the unfairness
of your
> > > > > >question, Josip, and do not attempt to provide an answer to it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Carmen: "I'm just stunned at the lengths to which Acharya will
> >go in
> > > > > >order to make me look as though I have mental problems!
Does she
> > > > > >have actual proof that I am 'ill'? No. She knows absolutely
NOTHING
> > > > > >about me, except that I have a website for God and that
I've dared
> > > > > >to challenge her rantings against MY God."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Carmen has contradicted herself, in the same sentence no
less. To
> > > > > >claim that Acharya knows "absolutely NOTHING" about her and
then in
> > > > > >the same breath to admit "except that I have a website for
God and
> > > > > >that I've dared to challenge her rantings against MY God" is
> > > > > >obviously contradictory, since Acharya can glean everything she
> > > > > >needs to know from Carmen's own writings: enough to
diagnose mental
> > > > > >illness in a clinical setting?---no; enough to formulate a
> > > > > >common-sense layperson's opinion regarding Carmen's mental
> >stability
> > > > > >in a this specific SOCIAL setting?---most certainly, yes. I
cannot
> > > > > >diagnose clinical mental illness because I am not a
credentialed
> > > > > >mental health professional, but I certainly have a right,
by virtue
> > > > > >of the fact that I'm a human being alone, to formulate a social
> > > > > >opinion regarding the mental stability of a person with
whom I have
> > > > > >crossed paths socially. After all, while clinical
psychology is the
> > > > > >purview of the professionals, pop psychology belongs to us all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Have you ever put your arm around a friend's shoulder and
asked,
> > > > > >"Are you okay? You seem depressed?" If so, did you have mental
> > > > > >health credentials which would allow you to diagnose clinical
> > > > > >depression when you did so? Whether you call what you did pop
> > > > > >psychology or just being a good listener, it's the same as what
> > > > > >Acharya has done: formulated a non-clinical lay opinion
regarding
> > > > > >the emotional state of another human being with whom there
has been
> > > > > >some social interaction. Surely, alongside her statements of
> > > > > >researched fact, Acharya can place her lay opinions
regarding the
> > > > > >seeming mental stablity of others, gleaned from considering
their
> > > > > >own proffered comments and the relative lack of logical
coherence
> > > > > >and emotional content in them. We let other nonfiction
authors do
> > > > > >so, why not Acharya?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Carmen decided to comment on Acharya's work, and in so doing
> > > > > >presents us all with a glimpse into her (Carmen's) mental
> >processes,
> > > > > >how she formulates ideas, her relative logic or illogic,
etc. Does
> > > > > >this not afford Acharya the right to formulate an opinion
regarding
> > > > > >the coherence of the mental processes with which Carmen's
opinions
> > > > > >were formed? Of course it does. Josip, you are making an
assumption
> > > > > >that Acharya's opinions regarding the mental stability of
certain
> > > > > >persons is meant to consistute a clinical diagnosis, and
while I
> > > > > >can't read Acharya's mind, my guess is that your assumption is
> > > > > >incorrect, thus rendering your initial question unfair to
Acharya.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >That's my two cents.
> > > > > >-Danny
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: <mailto:josip@v...>Joseph
> > > > > >To:
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
><mailto:Christ_Conspiracy@yahoogroups.com>Christ_Conspiracy@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:02 PM
> > > > > >Subject: Re: Christ Conspiracy Challenging Acharya S - AGAIN!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Hi Acharya,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Carmen does have a valid point. In your books and e mails
> >concerning
> > > > > >people you disagree with are often considered mentally ill
by your
> > > > > >responses. How can you diagnose without ever seeing the
> > > > > >patient? Being a lady of multiple talents do you have a state
> > > > > >license in the mental health field to be a trained
clinician? In
> > > > > >asking this I do not want to tick you off into a rant. Do
you have
> > > > > >mental health credentials?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Josip
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >"Acharya S is the ranking religious philosopher of our
era." John
> > > >Kaminski
> > > > > ><<<http://www.truthbeknown.com/>http://www.truthbeknown.com/>
> > http://www.truthbeknown.com/>http:
> > > > //www.truthbeknown.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >"Acharya S is the ranking religious philosopher of our era." John
Kaminski
> ><http://www.truthbeknown.com/>http://www.truthbeknown.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >SPONSORED LINKS
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