Yeah, Howard!

Was thinking of you today (favorably) while doi8ng the Pecan Path series.

Russ the waterweasel

-----Original Message-----
From: semperquestio
Sent: Feb 2, 2008 1:38 PM
To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] I'm still here

Hi all!

I finally got out of my cell, um, room, today for a 5 hr home pass.
We've been checking out how things will work when I come home,
hopefully early to mid next week.

Occupational and Physical Therapy has been going very well. I've been
nailing wheelchair transfers and other exercises and the therapists
have been very happy with my work.

On top of that, I have several of them that are REALLY getting
interested in geocaching! :)

I'm going to keep this short cuz I want to enjoy being home for a
while, so let me just say another quick thanks to all those who have
offered support and done so much for mea nd my family already. I can
NEVER thank you enough.

Howard

I would like to propose that all of us, Cachers of Central Texas establish a moratorium on caches in lamp posts or on any electrical device (example magnet plates on electrical boxes).

Now that I have your attention, let me explain why.

I first discovered my first lamp post cache (LPC) doing GCRNX4 a year and half ago. I had never seen one before. My GPSr clearly pointed to the lamp post. The electrical plate that usually is above the skirt was half way removed and wire were exposed. I was very perplexed. Surely, the hider did not expect me to put my hands in there!! After considering this for a second, I got the idea to lift the skirt, and alleluia, the film canister was there. I thought it was a clever hide but was a little bothered those very tempting wires. In my log at the time I wrote:

Found the container this morning with my 4 year old son. WARNING: there is an open plate very close to the cache where live electrical wires show. It is very tempting for kids to put their hands in. So this is pretty dangerous. I would suggest moving the cache location until this is fixed.

I later found another of these clever hides (without exposed wires this time), and another... I let my guard down. I did the "Quick Sax" series with my kids. Soon after, every time we go to a new HEB or target, my kids want to check lamp posts to see if there is a cache hidden. While I don't find them clever and creative anymore, I don't shy away from them, I actually did one just last week.

But last night, I listened to the latest podcacher podcast (#150 http://www.podcacher.com/?p=504 ) and they had a short segment on "Lamp Post Caches" (LPC). Sure, for those of you familiar with the show, Sonny always likes to complain about LPCs, but this time it was different, it referenced information from a blog by a geocacher that also works for power company. In his blog, please read in particular the entry from "January 20th":  http://johnnygeo-blog.blogspot.com/#4260964710916841293

Basically, in this article, it says that while the overwhelming majority of lamp post are safe, some can be charged and can KILL. It references several news article (Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/393yrx) of death or near death experiences due to electrical equipment (and lamp posts in particular) that should have been safe.

This blog opened my eyes to the danger of such caches. While the odds are very small (1 in 2000 in NY), why risk it? The world is full of other places to hide film canisters (I actually found a very clever one yesterday – Thanks HiDude!).

So I would like to propose a moratorium. This is not the first one. We already don't hide caches in preserves, we don't hide caches by schools.

I would like to propose that we don't hide caches in lamp post or on electrical boxes anymore. I would like to propose that we archive any such cache and send a clear message: geocaching and electricity don't mix.

Let's lead by example, and maybe other areas will follow. And who knows maybe we will save a life or two... 

Now I need to re-train my kids about lamp posts.

Arnaud. (SoaringEagle)

----- Original Message -----

From: SoaringEagle

To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 10:50 PM

Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] No more Lamp Post Caches

 I realize that this will probably be very controversial. But, I thought about it for a while, I slept on it and still think this is the right thing to do.

I would like to propose that all of us, Cachers of Central Texas establish a moratorium on caches in lamp posts or on any electrical device (example magnet plates on electrical boxes).

Now that I have your attention, let me explain why.

I first discovered my first lamp post cache (LPC) doing GCRNX4 a year and half ago. I had never seen one before. My GPSr clearly pointed to the lamp post. The electrical plate that usually is above the skirt was half way removed and wire were exposed. I was very perplexed. Surely, the hider did not expect me to put my hands in there!! After considering this for a second, I got the idea to lift the skirt, and alleluia, the film canister was there. I thought it was a clever hide but was a little bothered those very tempting wires. In my log at the time I wrote:

Found the container this morning with my 4 year old son. WARNING: there is an open plate very close to the cache where live electrical wires show. It is very tempting for kids to put their hands in. So this is pretty dangerous. I would suggest moving the cache location until this is fixed.

I later found another of these clever hides (without exposed wires this time), and another... I let my guard down. I did the "Quick Sax" series with my kids. Soon after, every time we go to a new HEB or target, my kids want to check lamp posts to see if there is a cache hidden. While I don't find them clever and creative anymore, I don't shy away from them, I actually did one just last week.

But last night, I listened to the latest podcacher podcast (#150 http://www.podcacher.com/?p=504 ) and they had a short segment on "Lamp Post Caches" (LPC). Sure, for those of you familiar with the show, Sonny always likes to complain about LPCs, but this time it was different, it referenced information from a blog by a geocacher that also works for power company. In his blog, please read in particular the entry from "January 20th":  http://johnnygeo-blog.blogspot.com/#4260964710916841293

Basically, in this article, it says that while the overwhelming majority of lamp post are safe, some can be charged and can KILL. It references several news article (Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/393yrx) of death or near death experiences due to electrical equipment (and lamp posts in particular) that should have been safe.

This blog opened my eyes to the danger of such caches. While the odds are very small (1 in 2000 in NY), why risk it? The world is full of other places to hide film canisters (I actually found a very clever one yesterday – Thanks HiDude!).

So I would like to propose a moratorium. This is not the first one. We already don't hide caches in preserves, we don't hide caches by schools.

I would like to propose that we don't hide caches in lamp post or on electrical boxes anymore. I would like to propose that we archive any such cache and send a clear message: geocaching and electricity don't mix.

Let's lead by example, and maybe other areas will follow. And who knows maybe we will save a life or two... 

Now I need to re-train my kids about lamp posts.

Arnaud. (SoaringEagle)

--- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Barry" <bcwatson@...>
wrote:
>
> MessageWhen I try to view my account, I get a page with the
geocaching logo, Signal look perplexed as he looks a paper in his
hands and this message:
>
> Sorry! We
> encountered
> an error
> when
> requesting
> that page!
>

It's not even getting that far for me right now. There must be a
problem at the moment. Just be patient.

- Mark
markewallace

I'm getting the same error  : (

Anthony....



-----Original Message-----
From: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark E. Wallace
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:27 AM
To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: Can't view my geocaching account!

--- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Barry" <bcwatson@...>
wrote:
>
> MessageWhen I try to view my account, I get a page with the
geocaching logo, Signal look perplexed as he looks a paper in his hands and
this message:
>
> Sorry! We
> encountered
> an error
> when
> requesting
> that page!
>

It's not even getting that far for me right now. There must be a problem at
the moment. Just be patient.

- Mark
markewallace




Yahoo! Groups Links

First off, some snopes.com stuff:

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/lasvegas.asp

Not exactly related, but goes to show that stuff can happen where
least expected.

I guess it's because I work for a power company and have been around
the stuff, even though I don't have clue one about doing anything
electrical beyond changing a light bulb or a switch, that I know I'm
not sticking my hands in the lamp post area with the wires.

I don't really care for lamp post hides as I've found them boring.
When I first got started they were fun.  When I found the first
magnetic plate, that was fun.  When I had to have a clue to find the
next one a day later...  And I did one a couple days ago that had an
intersting twist.  But, if I didn't mess with another lampost that
wouldn't hurt my feelings.

On the other hand, that week or so that I was GPSless, lampposts and
Google maps kept me going...

I agree with the moratorium on caches in lamp posts mostly due to the
lack of fun in caching hides.  Yes, it is hard to create a unique
hide, but LPCs are the LAZY cacher hides.  Even simple cache hides
can be fun or interesting with how it is hidden or the cammo style or
other techniques.  Let's get those thinking caps on and make some fun
or interesting hides!

mda_taz    Matthew

--- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "SoaringEagle"
<arnaud@...> wrote:
>
>  I realize that this will probably be very controversial. But, I
thought
> about it for a while, I slept on it and still think this is the
right
> thing to do.
> I would like to propose that all of us, Cachers of Central Texas
> establish a moratorium on caches in lamp posts or on any electrical
> device (example magnet plates on electrical boxes).
>
> Now that I have your attention, let me explain why.
>
> I first discovered my first lamp post cache (LPC) doing GCRNX4 a
year
> and half ago. I had never seen one before. My GPSr clearly pointed
to
> the lamp post. The electrical plate that usually is above the skirt
was
> half way removed and wire were exposed. I was very perplexed.
Surely,
> the hider did not expect me to put my hands in there!! After
considering
> this for a second, I got the idea to lift the skirt, and alleluia,
the
> film canister was there. I thought it was a clever hide but was a
little
> bothered those very tempting wires. In my log at the time I wrote:
>
> Found the container this morning with my 4 year old son. WARNING:
there
> is an open plate very close to the cache where live electrical wires
> show. It is very tempting for kids to put their hands in. So this is
> pretty dangerous. I would suggest moving the cache location until
this
> is fixed.
>
>
>
>
> I later found another of these clever hides (without exposed wires
this
> time), and another... I let my guard down. I did the "Quick Sax"
> series with my kids. Soon after, every time we go to a new HEB or
> target, my kids want to check lamp posts to see if there is a cache
> hidden. While I don't find them clever and creative anymore, I
don't shy
> away from them, I actually did one just last week.
>
> But last night, I listened to the latest podcacher podcast (#150
> http://www.podcacher.com/?p=504 <http://www.podcacher.com/?
p=504>  ) and
> they had a short segment on "Lamp Post Caches" (LPC). Sure, for
> those of you familiar with the show, Sonny always likes to complain
> about LPCs, but this time it was different, it referenced
information
> from a blog by a geocacher that also works for power company. In his
> blog, please read in particular the entry from "January 20th":
> http://johnnygeo-blog.blogspot.com/#4260964710916841293
> <http://johnnygeo-blog.blogspot.com/#4260964710916841293>
>
> Basically, in this article, it says that while the overwhelming
majority
> of lamp post are safe, some can be charged and can KILL. It
references
> several news article (Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/393yrx
> <http://tinyurl.com/393yrx> ) of death or near death experiences
due to
> electrical equipment (and lamp posts in particular) that should have
> been safe.
>
> This blog opened my eyes to the danger of such caches. While the
odds
> are very small (1 in 2000 in NY), why risk it? The world is full of
> other places to hide film canisters (I actually found a very clever
one
> yesterday – Thanks HiDude!).
>
> So I would like to propose a moratorium. This is not the first one.
We
> already don't hide caches in preserves, we don't hide caches by
schools.
>
> I would like to propose that we don't hide caches in lamp post or on
> electrical boxes anymore. I would like to propose that we archive
any
> such cache and send a clear message: geocaching and electricity
don't
> mix.
>
> Let's lead by example, and maybe other areas will follow. And who
knows
> maybe we will save a life or two...
>
> Now I need to re-train my kids about lamp posts.
>
> Arnaud. (SoaringEagle)
>

When I try to view my account, I get a page with the geocaching logo, Signal look perplexed as he looks a paper in his hands and this message:

 

Sorry! We

encountered

an error

when

requesting

that page!

 

So I'm going to pipe in here...

Getting the Goose is DEFINATLY NOT a lazy cacher hide.  Coming up with 50 locations for cache hides over a 60 mile plus route is challenging at best. 

Lamp Post hides may be considered lazy by some (note: this is not a dig at mda_taz's post), but I have two boys that like to cache, they really like to find that caches without help from Dad.  Lamp Post hides never get boring to these two.

I'd feel pretty safe in assuming that Semper Questo will be liking lamp post hides for a while, even if he hated them before the accident (don't know SQ's view on lp hides).

We all have our quirks, goodness knows I have a bunch… 

Remember, we're not required to find any hides, we can ignore them.  We also should take safety seriously.  If we see wires hanging out of something, perhaps we should walk away.  Hiders should remember that when they hide.  We can always post that a cache needs maintenance if the hide looks suspect. 

We have a wide range of hiders and finders, with an even broader view on the cache hides they like.  I'm not of the mindset that I feel compelled to tell someone how they can play the game.  Let's just have fun, play the game, and find the caches we want to find, because at the end of the day… It is just a game.

-Chris
GeoMire
The Loopy ½ of Tush Brothers Inc.

--- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "mda_taz" <matthewa@...> wrote:
>
> I agree with the moratorium on caches in lamp posts mostly due to the
> lack of fun in caching hides. Yes, it is hard to create a unique
> hide, but LPCs are the LAZY cacher hides. Even simple cache hides
> can be fun or interesting with how it is hidden or the cammo style or
> other techniques. Let's get those thinking caps on and make some fun
> or interesting hides!
>
> mda_taz Matthew
>
> --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "SoaringEagle"
> arnaud@ wrote:
> >
> > I realize that this will probably be very controversial. But, I
> thought
> > about it for a while, I slept on it and still think this is the
> right
> > thing to do.
> > I would like to propose that all of us, Cachers of Central Texas
> > establish a moratorium on caches in lamp posts or on any electrical
> > device (example magnet plates on electrical boxes).
> >
> > Now that I have your attention, let me explain why.
> >
> > I first discovered my first lamp post cache (LPC) doing GCRNX4 a
> year
> > and half ago. I had never seen one before. My GPSr clearly pointed
> to
> > the lamp post. The electrical plate that usually is above the skirt
> was
> > half way removed and wire were exposed. I was very perplexed.
> Surely,
> > the hider did not expect me to put my hands in there!! After
> considering
> > this for a second, I got the idea to lift the skirt, and alleluia,
> the
> > film canister was there. I thought it was a clever hide but was a
> little
> > bothered those very tempting wires. In my log at the time I wrote:
> >
> > Found the container this morning with my 4 year old son. WARNING:
> there
> > is an open plate very close to the cache where live electrical wires
> > show. It is very tempting for kids to put their hands in. So this is
> > pretty dangerous. I would suggest moving the cache location until
> this
> > is fixed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I later found another of these clever hides (without exposed wires
> this
> > time), and another... I let my guard down. I did the "Quick Sax"
> > series with my kids. Soon after, every time we go to a new HEB or
> > target, my kids want to check lamp posts to see if there is a cache
> > hidden. While I don't find them clever and creative anymore, I
> don't shy
> > away from them, I actually did one just last week.
> >
> > But last night, I listened to the latest podcacher podcast (#150
> > http://www.podcacher.com/?p=504 <http://www.podcacher.com/?
> p=504> ) and
> > they had a short segment on "Lamp Post Caches" (LPC). Sure, for
> > those of you familiar with the show, Sonny always likes to complain
> > about LPCs, but this time it was different, it referenced
> information
> > from a blog by a geocacher that also works for power company. In his
> > blog, please read in particular the entry from "January 20th":
> > http://johnnygeo-blog.blogspot.com/#4260964710916841293
> > <http://johnnygeo-blog.blogspot.com/#4260964710916841293>
> >
> > Basically, in this article, it says that while the overwhelming
> majority
> > of lamp post are safe, some can be charged and can KILL. It
> references
> > several news article (Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/393yrx
> > <http://tinyurl.com/393yrx> ) of death or near death experiences
> due to
> > electrical equipment (and lamp posts in particular) that should have
> > been safe.
> >
> > This blog opened my eyes to the danger of such caches. While the
> odds
> > are very small (1 in 2000 in NY), why risk it? The world is full of
> > other places to hide film canisters (I actually found a very clever
> one
> > yesterday – Thanks HiDude!).
> >
> > So I would like to propose a moratorium. This is not the first one.
> We
> > already don't hide caches in preserves, we don't hide caches by
> schools.
> >
> > I would like to propose that we don't hide caches in lamp post or on
> > electrical boxes anymore. I would like to propose that we archive
> any
> > such cache and send a clear message: geocaching and electricity
> don't
> > mix.
> >
> > Let's lead by example, and maybe other areas will follow. And who
> knows
> > maybe we will save a life or two...
> >
> > Now I need to re-train my kids about lamp posts.
> >
> > Arnaud. (SoaringEagle)
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mire

To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 10:00 AM

Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: No more Lamp Post Caches

So I'm going to pipe in here...

Getting the Goose is DEFINATLY NOT a lazy cacher hide.  Coming up with 50 locations for cache hides over a 60 mile plus route is challenging at best. 

Lamp Post hides may be considered lazy by some (note: this is not a dig at mda_taz's post), but I have two boys that like to cache, they really like to find that caches without help from Dad.  Lamp Post hides never get boring to these two.

I'd feel pretty safe in assuming that Semper Questo will be liking lamp post hides for a while, even if he hated them before the accident (don't know SQ's view on lp hides).

We all have our quirks, goodness knows I have a bunch… 

Remember, we're not required to find any hides, we can ignore them.  We also should take safety seriously.  If we see wires hanging out of something, perhaps we should walk away.  Hiders should remember that when they hide.  We can always post that a cache needs maintenance if the hide looks suspect. 

We have a wide range of hiders and finders, with an even broader view on the cache hides they like.  I'm not of the mindset that I feel compelled to tell someone how they can play the game.  Let's just have fun, play the game, and find the caches we want to find, because at the end of the day… It is just a game.

 

-Chris
GeoMire
The Loopy ½ of Tush Brothers Inc.

--- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "mda_taz" <matthewa@...> wrote:
>
> I agree with the moratorium on caches in lamp posts mostly due to the
> lack of fun in caching hides. Yes, it is hard to create a unique
> hide, but LPCs are the LAZY cacher hides. Even simple cache hides
> can be fun or interesting with how it is hidden or the cammo style or
> other techniques. Let's get those thinking caps on and make some fun
> or interesting hides!
>
> mda_taz Matthew
>
> --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "SoaringEagle"
> arnaud@ wrote:
> >
> > I realize that this will probably be very controversial. But, I
> thought
> > about it for a while, I slept on it and still think this is the
> right
> > thing to do.
> > I would like to propose that all of us, Cachers of Central Texas
> > establish a moratorium on caches in lamp posts or on any electrical
> > device (example magnet plates on electrical boxes).
> >
> > Now that I have your attention, let me explain why.
> >
> > I first discovered my first lamp post cache (LPC) doing GCRNX4 a
> year
> > and half ago. I had never seen one before. My GPSr clearly pointed
> to
> > the lamp post. The electrical plate that usually is above the skirt
> was
> > half way removed and wire were exposed. I was very perplexed.
> Surely,
> > the hider did not expect me to put my hands in there!! After
> considering
> > this for a second, I got the idea to lift the skirt, and alleluia,
> the
> > film canister was there. I thought it was a clever hide but was a
> little
> > bothered those very tempting wires. In my log at the time I wrote:
> >
> > Found the container this morning with my 4 year old son. WARNING:
> there
> > is an open plate very close to the cache where live electrical wires
> > show. It is very tempting for kids to put their hands in. So this is
> > pretty dangerous. I would suggest moving the cache location until
> this
> > is fixed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I later found another of these clever hides (without exposed wires
> this
> > time), and another... I let my guard down. I did the "Quick Sax"
> > series with my kids. Soon after, every time we go to a new HEB or
> > target, my kids want to check lamp posts to see if there is a cache
> > hidden. While I don't find them clever and creative anymore, I
> don't shy
> > away from them, I actually did one just last week.
> >
> > But last night, I listened to the latest podcacher podcast (#150
> > http://www.podcacher.com/?p=504 <http://www.podcacher.com/?
> p=504> ) and
> > they had a short segment on "Lamp Post Caches" (LPC). Sure, for
> > those of you familiar with the show, Sonny always likes to complain
> > about LPCs, but this time it was different, it referenced
> information
> > from a blog by a geocacher that also works for power company. In his
> > blog, please read in particular the entry from "January 20th":
> > http://johnnygeo-blog.blogspot.com/#4260964710916841293
> > <http://johnnygeo-blog.blogspot.com/#4260964710916841293>
> >
> > Basically, in this article, it says that while the overwhelming
> majority
> > of lamp post are safe, some can be charged and can KILL. It
> references
> > several news article (Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/393yrx
> > <http://tinyurl.com/393yrx> ) of death or near death experiences
> due to
> > electrical equipment (and lamp posts in particular) that should have
> > been safe.
> >
> > This blog opened my eyes to the danger of such caches. While the
> odds
> > are very small (1 in 2000 in NY), why risk it? The world is full of
> > other places to hide film canisters (I actually found a very clever
> one
> > yesterday – Thanks HiDude!).
> >
> > So I would like to propose a moratorium. This is not the first one.
> We
> > already don't hide caches in preserves, we don't hide caches by
> schools.
> >
> > I would like to propose that we don't hide caches in lamp post or on
> > electrical boxes anymore. I would like to propose that we archive
> any
> > such cache and send a clear message: geocaching and electricity
> don't
> > mix.
> >
> > Let's lead by example, and maybe other areas will follow. And who
> knows
> > maybe we will save a life or two...
> >
> > Now I need to re-train my kids about lamp posts.
> >
> > Arnaud. (SoaringEagle)
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mire

To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 10:00 AM

Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: No more Lamp Post Caches

So I'm going to pipe in here...

Getting the Goose is DEFINATLY NOT a lazy cacher hide.  Coming up with 50 locations for cache hides over a 60 mile plus route is challenging at best. 

Lamp Post hides may be considered lazy by some (note: this is not a dig at mda_taz's post), but I have two boys that like to cache, they really like to find that caches without help from Dad.  Lamp Post hides never get boring to these two.

I'd feel pretty safe in assuming that Semper Questo will be liking lamp post hides for a while, even if he hated them before the accident (don't know SQ's view on lp hides).

We all have our quirks, goodness knows I have a bunch… 

Remember, we're not required to find any hides, we can ignore them.  We also should take safety seriously.  If we see wires hanging out of something, perhaps we should walk away.  Hiders should remember that when they hide.  We can always post that a cache needs maintenance if the hide looks suspect. 

We have a wide range of hiders and finders, with an even broader view on the cache hides they like.  I'm not of the mindset that I feel compelled to tell someone how they can play the game.  Let's just have fun, play the game, and find the caches we want to find, because at the end of the day… It is just a game.

 

-Chris
GeoMire
The Loopy ½ of Tush Brothers Inc.

--- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "mda_taz" <matthewa@...> wrote:
>
> I agree with the moratorium on caches in lamp posts mostly due to the
> lack of fun in caching hides. Yes, it is hard to create a unique
> hide, but LPCs are the LAZY cacher hides. Even simple cache hides
> can be fun or interesting with how it is hidden or the cammo style or
> other techniques. Let's get those thinking caps on and make some fun
> or interesting hides!
>
> mda_taz Matthew
>
> --- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "SoaringEagle"
> arnaud@ wrote:
> >
> > I realize that this will probably be very controversial. But, I
> thought
> > about it for a while, I slept on it and still think this is the
> right
> > thing to do.
> > I would like to propose that all of us, Cachers of Central Texas
> > establish a moratorium on caches in lamp posts or on any electrical
> > device (example magnet plates on electrical boxes).
> >
> > Now that I have your attention, let me explain why.
> >
> > I first discovered my first lamp post cache (LPC) doing GCRNX4 a
> year
> > and half ago. I had never seen one before. My GPSr clearly pointed
> to
> > the lamp post. The electrical plate that usually is above the skirt
> was
> > half way removed and wire were exposed. I was very perplexed.
> Surely,
> > the hider did not expect me to put my hands in there!! After
> considering
> > this for a second, I got the idea to lift the skirt, and alleluia,
> the
> > film canister was there. I thought it was a clever hide but was a
> little
> > bothered those very tempting wires. In my log at the time I wrote:
> >
> > Found the container this morning with my 4 year old son. WARNING:
> there
> > is an open plate very close to the cache where live electrical wires
> > show. It is very tempting for kids to put their hands in. So this is
> > pretty dangerous. I would suggest moving the cache location until
> this
> > is fixed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I later found another of these clever hides (without exposed wires
> this
> > time), and another... I let my guard down. I did the "Quick Sax"
> > series with my kids. Soon after, every time we go to a new HEB or
> > target, my kids want to check lamp posts to see if there is a cache
> > hidden. While I don't find them clever and creative anymore, I
> don't shy
> > away from them, I actually did one just last week.
> >
> > But last night, I listened to the latest podcacher podcast (#150
> > http://www.podcacher.com/?p=504 <http://www.podcacher.com/?
> p=504> ) and
> > they had a short segment on "Lamp Post Caches" (LPC). Sure, for
> > those of you familiar with the show, Sonny always likes to complain
> > about LPCs, but this time it was different, it referenced
> information
> > from a blog by a geocacher that also works for power company. In his
> > blog, please read in particular the entry from "January 20th":
> > http://johnnygeo-blog.blogspot.com/#4260964710916841293
> > <http://johnnygeo-blog.blogspot.com/#4260964710916841293>
> >
> > Basically, in this article, it says that while the overwhelming
> majority
> > of lamp post are safe, some can be charged and can KILL. It
> references
> > several news article (Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/393yrx
> > <http://tinyurl.com/393yrx> ) of death or near death experiences
> due to
> > electrical equipment (and lamp posts in particular) that should have
> > been safe.
> >
> > This blog opened my eyes to the danger of such caches. While the
> odds
> > are very small (1 in 2000 in NY), why risk it? The world is full of
> > other places to hide film canisters (I actually found a very clever
> one
> > yesterday – Thanks HiDude!).
> >
> > So I would like to propose a moratorium. This is not the first one.
> We
> > already don't hide caches in preserves, we don't hide caches by
> schools.
> >
> > I would like to propose that we don't hide caches in lamp post or on
> > electrical boxes anymore. I would like to propose that we archive
> any
> > such cache and send a clear message: geocaching and electricity
> don't
> > mix.
> >
> > Let's lead by example, and maybe other areas will follow. And who
> knows
> > maybe we will save a life or two...
> >
> > Now I need to re-train my kids about lamp posts.
> >
> > Arnaud. (SoaringEagle)
> >
>

On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 15:02:04 -0000 "mda_taz" <matthewa@...> writes:
> I agree with the moratorium on caches in lamp posts mostly due to the
>
> lack of fun in caching hides.  Yes, it is hard to create a unique
> hide, but LPCs are the LAZY cacher hides.  Even simple cache hides
> can be fun or interesting with how it is hidden or the cammo style
> or
> other techniques.  Let's get those thinking caps on and make some
> fun
> or interesting hides!
>
> mda_taz    Matthew
>

I'm with Matthew -- lamppost hides aren't the most tricky hides on the
block.
However, outlawing them is going too far.

Frankly, a lamppost that's dangerously charged in a parking lot is so
rare that you've got to believe that God is out to get you.
We need to treat electrical elements with due caution ... but that
doesn't mean they should be off limits for caching. One of the cruellest
hides I've seen was a key case on a lightpost. Very difficult to find in
plain sight ... but, frankly, 99.9% innocuous.

First it's lampposts outlawed, then it's bisons near PI. We've done more
damage to sidewalk gardens/shrubbery than to a lamppost. Shall we outlaw
those because some cachers are over-enthused? More cachers get PI than
get shocked, but we accept it as part of the risk. Last weekend I
retrieved a couple caches that, well, had there been a rattlesnake
wrapped around them, I wouldn't have been surprised. I myself find bison
tubes hanging in cedars MUCH more tedious than lamppost hides.... at
least I'm not going to get thorns from the lamppost. [Possible
electrocution? approach with the back of the hand. the issue is MUCH more
remote, however, than the certain thorn.... I've got greenbriar SCARS]

Next we'll outlaw caches that involve a difficulty 4 or 5 terrain,
because Howard fell. No hides near electric fences, because Curtis nearly
did electrocute himself.... Nothing out in deep grass, because there are
ticks and chiggers....

I realize that sounds like arm-waving, but that's how it starts. Outlaw
one thing, and then it's another and another and another....

YES, it would be lovely if people could be more clever.... I have to
admit a certain derisive snort after breaking my brain on a puzzle, to go
get the final under a lamppost (I'm more concerned about spiders and
crickets than electrocution).  Urban hides do limit options, however --
and we all know lampposts aren't the only boring, obvious (to cachers)
hides out there. And there are days that a park and grab run is kinda
fun. [You mentioned doing the Sax series... so there's a little trace of,
I've stopped believing in Santa Claus, so no one can.... I know you don't
mean that, but....]

Now.
Cache hiders do need to apply some common sense.
Don't put the cache where it's inviting trouble and cacher hands where
they oughtn't be. [I'm more concerned about caches placed in historically
sensitive stone walls than lampposts... or caches that invite decimation
of a flower bed ... or caches that have a huge list of caveats on the
cache page -- if I'm caching from my GPSr, I don't have those on me.]

Cachers need to apply some common sense, too -- don't put your hands in
those wires, no smiley is worth it. Don't dismantle the site. Return the
hide to the way you've found it (I need to launch a rescue of one cache,
probably because someone decided they could hide it better, or just
didn't bother to return it to its form).

I can get on my soap box and rant about any number of caching facets that
I, personally, don't approve of.
You want to hear my biggest peeve? Not being considerate of a log book.
It may be a spiral memo pad and seems 'infinite' -- but it CAN hold more
than one name on a page. And, wow, people, paper has two sides! YES SIGN
ON THE BACK. That's not obvious?
See, there's always something that will fly up someone's nose. Big whup.
The virtue of the game is its open flexibility. You want tight rules and
regs... there are other games out there.
But most of CenTex's ways gets the same derision from other groups --
thus the Black Sheep Coin.

Still, by the very openness of the game, players need to apply a certain
amount of self-regulation, self-restraint -- (un)Common Sense.

Cachers on both sides of the hide are ENCOURAGED to apply creativity and,
yes, more thought re: potential consequences -- a cache at a bank's
drive-through under the security cams? that's asking for a lot of
maintenance, and maybe will get cachers in trouble -- a cache up an
unstable stone wall? yeah, that's inviting injury, too....
Someone put a series of caches out on, essentially, private property,
really pissing off land-owners.
Let Hi_Dude and GeoMire tell you about their car chase through the night.

Use your heads, do your research (e.g. Steiner Ranch doesn't allow caches
on their trails, Preserves are also not allowed, no caches in National
Parks....), don't make cachers break the law to access  your cache (great
site, but where are they going to park?), put yourself in someone else's
shoes, respect the site and the cachers who come, at all times be a good
emissary of the sport..... its survival depends on all our good behavior.

But outlawing a cache type because of a remote danger, when we go to
caches ALL THE TIME with clear and present risks.... no. Please no.

The flexiblity of the sport is its virtue. Each new rule because of a
remote risk, while maybe discouraging a "lazy" hide type, will also birth
unseen consequences.

Yes, I don't want to see cachers getting hurt.
But I don't think more rules is an answer.

And that's my piece.

Barb/Tygress

@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@
It isn't a lack of willpower, it's an abundance of momentum. --Cathy
Guisewite

--- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, Barb Jernigan
<gumbietygress@...> wrote:
>
> Last night the site was clearly overwhelmed. Slower than sludge.
> I got that doing the same thing, but the second attempt let me through.
>
> I think weekends are pushing Big Green to its limits again.
>

http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=184316&st=0


- Mark
markewallace

Hi!

While I'm replying to the original post, I have read the entire series to this point.  Like most debates, both sides are raising some good points.  So, my $0.02 worth . . .:

1) First off, I've been trained as a police officer, fire fighter, EMT, and mine rescue team member.  I worked for the Engineering Department of the largest public utility in the US for over 12 years.  I've never heard of or encountered an accident with a light post.

2) That said, one of the first things a parent should do is to teach their kids that ALL wires should be considered live and potentially deadly.  No exceptions for the young ones.  After about 6, teach them about extension cords. 

3) Still, you can get shocked for odd places: my worst one was arriving in North Carolina, taking a shower to refresh me from my trip from CA, and then trying to turn on the hotel room lamp.  Landed on my butt.  The metal casing of the lamp was live.  Should we outlaw lamps?

4) Lamp skirt hides are boring.  Yes, they are quick PnGs.  Sometimes I like "fast food", sometimes I prefer a sit down dinner.  Both have their place.  Don't like lamp skirts?  Don't place them and don't go there . . . Problem solved.

5) Back to what my esteemed caching partner and wife the Tygress said: Please don't take things apart that weren't meant to be taken apart.  Don't place hides in ways that encourage the rest of us to be law breakers.  Don't dismantle old rock walls.  As much as possible, we should try to make it look as if we hadn't been to the hide.  Impossible, I know, but something to try for . . .

6) Back to point #1: All wires should be considered live.  No hands in access holes and no caches either.

7) Be safe out there!  Cache with a partner when you can.  Carry your cell phone and make sure that someone who is not with you at least knows your general area that you'll be in.

Dang!  Preaching is hard work . . . Someone got a glass of OJ?

Russ the waterweasel

-----Original Message-----
From: SoaringEagle
Sent: Feb 2, 2008 10:50 PM
To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] No more Lamp Post Caches

 I realize that this will probably be very controversial. But, I thought about it for a while, I slept on it and still think this is the right thing to do.

I would like to propose that all of us, Cachers of Central Texas establish a moratorium on caches in lamp posts or on any electrical device (example magnet plates on electrical boxes).

Now that I have your attention, let me explain why.

I first discovered my first lamp post cache (LPC) doing GCRNX4 a year and half ago. I had never seen one before. My GPSr clearly pointed to the lamp post. The electrical plate that usually is above the skirt was half way removed and wire were exposed. I was very perplexed. Surely, the hider did not expect me to put my hands in there!! After considering this for a second, I got the idea to lift the skirt, and alleluia, the film canister was there. I thought it was a clever hide but was a little bothered those very tempting wires. In my log at the time I wrote:

Found the container this morning with my 4 year old son. WARNING: there is an open plate very close to the cache where live electrical wires show. It is very tempting for kids to put their hands in. So this is pretty dangerous. I would suggest moving the cache location until this is fixed.

I later found another of these clever hides (without exposed wires this time), and another... I let my guard down. I did the "Quick Sax" series with my kids. Soon after, every time we go to a new HEB or target, my kids want to check lamp posts to see if there is a cache hidden. While I don't find them clever and creative anymore, I don't shy away from them, I actually did one just last week.

But last night, I listened to the latest podcacher podcast (#150 http://www.podcacher.com/?p=504 ) and they had a short segment on "Lamp Post Caches" (LPC). Sure, for those of you familiar with the show, Sonny always likes to complain about LPCs, but this time it was different, it referenced information from a blog by a geocacher that also works for power company. In his blog, please read in particular the entry from "January 20th":  http://johnnygeo-blog.blogspot.com/#4260964710916841293

Basically, in this article, it says that while the overwhelming majority of lamp post are safe, some can be charged and can KILL. It references several news article (Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/393yrx) of death or near death experiences due to electrical equipment (and lamp posts in particular) that should have been safe.

This blog opened my eyes to the danger of such caches. While the odds are very small (1 in 2000 in NY), why risk it? The world is full of other places to hide film canisters (I actually found a very clever one yesterday – Thanks HiDude!).

So I would like to propose a moratorium. This is not the first one. We already don't hide caches in preserves, we don't hide caches by schools.

I would like to propose that we don't hide caches in lamp post or on electrical boxes anymore. I would like to propose that we archive any such cache and send a clear message: geocaching and electricity don't mix.

Let's lead by example, and maybe other areas will follow. And who knows maybe we will save a life or two... 

Now I need to re-train my kids about lamp posts.

Arnaud. (SoaringEagle)

--- In CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Mire"
<geomire@...> wrote:

> Remember, we're not required to find any hides, we can ignore them.
> We also should take safety seriously.  If we see wires hanging out of
> something, perhaps we should walk away.  Hiders should remember that
> when they hide.  We can always post that a cache needs maintenance if
> the hide looks suspect.

The example I had about exposed wire was probably misleading.  In most
case of death in the few newpaper article referenced, there was no
exposed wires.  The faulty wires were inside or at ground level.

It seems that people also were in contact with either water or another
metal object at the same time.  So a lamp post that may have seemed
safe in dry condition, could become dangerous in wet conditions.

At the end of the day, if people don't feel confortable with the
moratorium, I am not going to push.  I personally will try to stay
away from them in the future.  I just thougth it was my duty to pass
the information and suggest what I thought was a safe approach.

Cache on!

PS: Russ you are very right, the odds are very small.  Anecdotally, it
seems that there is at best single digit occurence nationally every
year.  But until the last couple of years I don't think many people
played with lamp posts.... my hope is not to see this increase.

And that is a thought that we can all get behind.  Remember, if you have any doubts about something being "live", hit it briefly with the BACK of your hand.  You'll know if it is.  Grab it and if it is live, your fingers will clench around it and you're stuck.

Russ the ex-Emergency type waterweasel

-----Original Message-----
From: SoaringEagle
Sent: Feb 3, 2008 12:16 PM
To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: No more Lamp Post Caches

-----Original Message-----
From: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barb Jernigan
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 10:17 AM
To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] Re: No more Lamp Post Caches [Now wait a minute!]

But I don't think more rules is an answer.

.

hi, i'm Cliff. i'm either in Arlington, TX or Wichita Falls. just got
into this geocaching thing after finding some cheap GPS handsets on
craigslist and watching Icenrye's Geocaching videozine on ranttv. so
yehah, hi and stuff ^_^

On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:14:07 -0000 "llx_the_flood_xll"
<llx_the_flood_xll@...> writes:
> hi, i'm Cliff. i'm either in Arlington, TX or Wichita Falls. just
> got
> into this geocaching thing after finding some cheap GPS handsets on
> craigslist and watching Icenrye's Geocaching videozine on ranttv.
> so
> yehah, hi and stuff ^_^
>
>

Welcome to a wonderful new world.
You'll never look at... well anything on public property the same way
again!

Barb/Tygress

@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@
It isn't a lack of willpower, it's an abundance of momentum. --Cathy
Guisewite

----- Original Message -----

From: Barb Jernigan

To: CentralTexasGeocachers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 9:52 PM

Subject: Re: [CentralTexasGeocachers] new to caching

On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:14:07 -0000 "llx_the_flood_xll"
<llx_the_flood_xll@yahoo.com> writes:
> hi, i'm Cliff. i'm either in Arlington, TX or Wichita Falls. just
> got
> into this geocaching thing after finding some cheap GPS handsets on
> craigslist and watching Icenrye's Geocaching videozine on ranttv.
> so
> yehah, hi and stuff ^_^
>
>

Welcome to a wonderful new world.
You'll never look at... well anything on public property the same way
again!

Barb/Tygress

@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@
It isn't a lack of willpower, it's an abundance of momentum. --Cathy
Guisewite

On Sun, 3 Feb 2008 22:35:54 -0600 <engelwaffen@...> writes:

The mantra of a geocacher.  With apologies to Greater Abilene Geocachers
Association who first thought this out.

Driving over 50 miles to have...
Rusty barewire ripping through your clothes...
Curious rattlesnakes that come out of nowhere...
Itchy mosquito bites on every inch of your body...
A 40 mph wind gust blowing sand into your ears, nose, and mouth...
Cactus needles getting stuck deep into your hands, arms, and legs...
Thorny Mesquite trees scratching you from head to toe...
Some of all these things on a hike through 101° heat...
To sign your name and trade a toy...
SOUND LIKE FUN TO YOU?
It does to me.  I'm a Geocacher in West Texas.

And I sign my name:

Amishangel


@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@,.-:*'``'*:-.,@

Lessee, let's tweak this for CenTex:

Driving hither and yon (damn the gas prices, smilies ahead!) to suffer...

Greenbriar ripping through your clothes, your hair, your flesh....
Curious crittters of all manner that come out of nowhere...
Welted mosquito bites on every exposed inch of your body -- and chigger
and fireant welt/bites on the unexposed regions...
Withering weather one minute, ice storms the next, punctuated with some
amazing thunderbumpers...
Did I mention greenbriar getting stuck deep in to your hands, arms, legs,
ears....
Thorny cedar trees scratching you from head to toe
(No, they aren't as long as mesquite and acacia thorns -- those puppies
are caltrops -- but they still leave a mark)...
PI sneaking its toxins into those greenbriar scratches...
Beggars lice and burrs from hell (I've thrown away a pair of socks, have
you?)...
Some of all these things on a hike through 98°F heat with  105% humidity
(Exaggeration? Well, my sweat adds to the numbers, don't it?)...

...all to find an itty bitty plastic container and write on a moldy log:

"I was here."

SOUND LIKE FUN TO YOU?
It does to me.  I'm a Geocacher from Central Texas.


((and we wonder why muggles look at us funny))

Hit a few milemarkers tonight:

1.  Got called by a geocaching legend and asked to tag along.

2.  Got to help said legend find a few caches.

3.  Got my picture taken by said legend at her own cache.

Oh, who would this legend be?  Cybercat!

I was also thrilled find that someone else gets a little, hmm, what's
the proper word??  Cranky?  Nah.  Irritated?  Yeah, that'll work.
Determined?  Oh definitely.  Don't think quit is in her vocabulary.
I'm sure she has her breaking point, but Al Pacino wasn't going to
find it tonight.  I was sure glad to find I'm not the only one
who "suffers" from this condition.

4.  Oh, you think it ended there?  Nah.  Bit the bullet and became a
premium member.  Smileys sure look nice on the map, but they can get
in the way too.  And the closest stuff to the house is PM only.  And
now I find there's two more that I can get to at work easily -one of
which I'll probably hit before work.

5.  Completed The Outhouse Series - or at least how it is now.  One
of those caches gave a new meaning to TNLNSL.

Yep, it was a pretty decent day.