Some notes on Korobushka from the Dance perspective:
As much as I despise the popularity of such an out of period thing, I do think
the 'Tetris' music is some cool stuff to play. As for tempo: I like most ECD at
about 120. For the speed-it-up dances you have to be careful to start it slowly
enough to have some where to speed up to, but fast enough that the dancers don't
have to defy gravity to extend steps. In one measure, the dancer steps and
closes 2 times. Think about walking, stepping once per beat, and you can figure
out what will feel comfortable, slow but not too slow, moderate-comfy, fast and
insane.
Generally I will visit with a Pit Chief before a ball to set tempi as early in
the process as makes him or her feel comfortable. If you will be at Bellwode
Symposium, I'd be happy to sit and do a tempo check with you or you can sit in
on the one the Conna and I will inevitably do before the evening dancing.
Tsire


To: CalontirDance@...: christian@...: Mon, 26 Feb 2007
11:43:25 -0600Subject: [CalontirDance] Starting tempo for Korobushka?




I haven't heard this played in a long time by a dance ensemble, so I can't
remember where they began the tempo at and accelerated from. I like the way it
flows at crotchet = 120, but since it accelerates, I was wondering if the
initial tempo marking should be perhaps something like crotchet = 108? I'm sure
the musicians can play it at nosebleed speed, but I've never danced to it so
I've no idea what is reasonable. This is the last detail I need to hammer out
before putting it up on the site.Man I soooo need a newer version of Finale. If
anyone knows how to suppress/hide 3 of the 4 staves in a group in a system (not
all systems) in Finale 2001d I'd love to know how... I don't believe it's
possible. The whole thing fits well on a single page, but if I was able to lose
those three staves on the intro line, it would give me tons of room to increase
the size of the note elements, spacing between staves and spacing between
systems. May have to break into the music school's computer lab for a quick
edit.-- Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions -
http://thistledowne.orgComputer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri
- ColumbiaCollege of Education - School of Info Science & Learning
TechnologiesVRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and
Truman,Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370


_________________________________________________________________
News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good advice, and yes, I will be at Bellwode even if I have to move
mountains (real mountains, not Missouri mountains) to get there.  I hope
to very much be involved and if anything can be done to improve/correct
any of my efforts, I'll surely accept with much gratitude.

Based on the step-close, step-close thing it seems that even Crotchet =
102 wouldn't be too agonizing and would leave a good amount of headroom
for acceleration before feet start smoking.  I think I'll go with this
for now unless someone has better ideas and go ahead and publish to the web.

Available for review in the next half hour or so at
http://music.shireofthestandingstones.org/index.php?Content=Music



Tsire Tuzevo wrote:
> Some notes on Korobushka from the Dance perspective:
> As much as I despise the popularity of such an out of period thing, I do think
the 'Tetris' music is some cool stuff to play. As for tempo: I like most ECD at
about 120. For the speed-it-up dances you have to be careful to start it slowly
enough to have some where to speed up to, but fast enough that the dancers don't
have to defy gravity to extend steps. In one measure, the dancer steps and
closes 2 times. Think about walking, stepping once per beat, and you can figure
out what will feel comfortable, slow but not too slow, moderate-comfy, fast and
insane.
> Generally I will visit with a Pit Chief before a ball to set tempi as early in
the process as makes him or her feel comfortable. If you will be at Bellwode
Symposium, I'd be happy to sit and do a tempo check with you or you can sit in
on the one the Conna and I will inevitably do before the evening dancing.
> Tsire
>
>
> To: CalontirDance@...: christian@...: Mon, 26 Feb
2007 11:43:25 -0600Subject: [CalontirDance] Starting tempo for Korobushka?
>
>
>
>
> I haven't heard this played in a long time by a dance ensemble, so I can't
remember where they began the tempo at and accelerated from. I like the way it
flows at crotchet = 120, but since it accelerates, I was wondering if the
initial tempo marking should be perhaps something like crotchet = 108? I'm sure
the musicians can play it at nosebleed speed, but I've never danced to it so
I've no idea what is reasonable. This is the last detail I need to hammer out
before putting it up on the site.Man I soooo need a newer version of Finale. If
anyone knows how to suppress/hide 3 of the 4 staves in a group in a system (not
all systems) in Finale 2001d I'd love to know how... I don't believe it's
possible. The whole thing fits well on a single page, but if I was able to lose
those three staves on the intro line, it would give me tons of room to increase
the size of the note elements, spacing between staves and spacing between
systems. May have to break into the music school's computer lab for a quick
edit.-- Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions -
http://thistledowne.orgComputer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri
- ColumbiaCollege of Education - School of Info Science & Learning
TechnologiesVRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and
Truman,Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
> http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

--
Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370

Thanks!!!

Let me know if you'd like a copy.   Free of charge.   Just a little
service we like to provide.

--
Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370

Any chance of doing the older (Slavic) steps to Korobushka?  I realize
they're still not documentable, but they fit the music, and they're
traditional (i.e. nobody knows how old they are).

Mableth

-----Original Message-----
From: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Christian M. Cepel
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 1:39 PM
To: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CalontirDance] Starting tempo for Korobushka?

Good advice, and yes, I will be at Bellwode even if I have to move
mountains (real mountains, not Missouri mountains) to get there.  I hope
to very much be involved and if anything can be done to improve/correct
any of my efforts, I'll surely accept with much gratitude.

Based on the step-close, step-close thing it seems that even Crotchet =
102 wouldn't be too agonizing and would leave a good amount of headroom
for acceleration before feet start smoking.  I think I'll go with this
for now unless someone has better ideas and go ahead and publish to the web.

Available for review in the next half hour or so at
http://music.shireofthestandingstones.org/index.php?Content=Music



Tsire Tuzevo wrote:
> Some notes on Korobushka from the Dance perspective:
> As much as I despise the popularity of such an out of period thing, I do
think the 'Tetris' music is some cool stuff to play. As for tempo: I like
most ECD at about 120. For the speed-it-up dances you have to be careful to
start it slowly enough to have some where to speed up to, but fast enough
that the dancers don't have to defy gravity to extend steps. In one measure,
the dancer steps and closes 2 times. Think about walking, stepping once per
beat, and you can figure out what will feel comfortable, slow but not too
slow, moderate-comfy, fast and insane.
> Generally I will visit with a Pit Chief before a ball to set tempi as
early in the process as makes him or her feel comfortable. If you will be at
Bellwode Symposium, I'd be happy to sit and do a tempo check with you or you
can sit in on the one the Conna and I will inevitably do before the evening
dancing.
> Tsire
>
>
> To: CalontirDance@...: christian@...: Mon, 26
Feb 2007 11:43:25 -0600Subject: [CalontirDance] Starting tempo for
Korobushka?
>
>
>
>
> I haven't heard this played in a long time by a dance ensemble, so I can't
remember where they began the tempo at and accelerated from. I like the way
it flows at crotchet = 120, but since it accelerates, I was wondering if the
initial tempo marking should be perhaps something like crotchet = 108? I'm
sure the musicians can play it at nosebleed speed, but I've never danced to
it so I've no idea what is reasonable. This is the last detail I need to
hammer out before putting it up on the site.Man I soooo need a newer version
of Finale. If anyone knows how to suppress/hide 3 of the 4 staves in a group
in a system (not all systems) in Finale 2001d I'd love to know how... I
don't believe it's possible. The whole thing fits well on a single page, but
if I was able to lose those three staves on the intro line, it would give me
tons of room to increase the size of the note elements, spacing between
staves and spacing between systems. May have to break into the music
school's computer lab for a quick edit.-- Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne
Productions - http://thistledowne.orgComputer Support Specialist, Sr. -
University of Missouri - ColumbiaCollege of Education - School of Info
Science & Learning TechnologiesVRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support
Systems Projects, and Truman,Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design &
Programming - 573.999.2370
>

We have some cheese and lunchmeat products in the tray of our fridge
that I think are Traditional.

Ok.... to give this some legitimate content and because I wanted to but
forgot to include it in the previous posting, I'm needing some help with
the clefts in the original.... They are all G clefts, no G 8va clefts,
but that doesn't seem right, so...   Could someone who's familiar with
the instrument tessituras make certain that the proper clef is being
used for what is likely the proper part.... I think the top two lines
are soprano by the notation that one is an alternate, but I'm not sure
about the others (except the bass of course which is an F clef).

I haven't added the other midis to korobushka, but will once I get home
this evening.

Bill Morris wrote:
> Any chance of doing the older (Slavic) steps to Korobushka?  I realize
> they're still not documentable, but they fit the music, and they're
> traditional (i.e. nobody knows how old they are).
>
> Mableth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Christian M. Cepel
> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 1:39 PM
> To: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [CalontirDance] Starting tempo for Korobushka?
>
> Good advice, and yes, I will be at Bellwode even if I have to move
> mountains (real mountains, not Missouri mountains) to get there.  I hope
> to very much be involved and if anything can be done to improve/correct
> any of my efforts, I'll surely accept with much gratitude.
>
> Based on the step-close, step-close thing it seems that even Crotchet =
> 102 wouldn't be too agonizing and would leave a good amount of headroom
> for acceleration before feet start smoking.  I think I'll go with this
> for now unless someone has better ideas and go ahead and publish to the web.
>
> Available for review in the next half hour or so at
> http://music.shireofthestandingstones.org/index.php?Content=Music
>
>
>
> Tsire Tuzevo wrote:
>
>> Some notes on Korobushka from the Dance perspective:
>> As much as I despise the popularity of such an out of period thing, I do
>>
> think the 'Tetris' music is some cool stuff to play. As for tempo: I like
> most ECD at about 120. For the speed-it-up dances you have to be careful to
> start it slowly enough to have some where to speed up to, but fast enough
> that the dancers don't have to defy gravity to extend steps. In one measure,
> the dancer steps and closes 2 times. Think about walking, stepping once per
> beat, and you can figure out what will feel comfortable, slow but not too
> slow, moderate-comfy, fast and insane.
>
>> Generally I will visit with a Pit Chief before a ball to set tempi as
>>
> early in the process as makes him or her feel comfortable. If you will be at
> Bellwode Symposium, I'd be happy to sit and do a tempo check with you or you
> can sit in on the one the Conna and I will inevitably do before the evening
> dancing.
>
>> Tsire
>>
>>
>> To: CalontirDance@...: christian@...: Mon, 26
>>
> Feb 2007 11:43:25 -0600Subject: [CalontirDance] Starting tempo for
> Korobushka?
>
>>
>>
>> I haven't heard this played in a long time by a dance ensemble, so I can't
>>
> remember where they began the tempo at and accelerated from. I like the way
> it flows at crotchet = 120, but since it accelerates, I was wondering if the
> initial tempo marking should be perhaps something like crotchet = 108? I'm
> sure the musicians can play it at nosebleed speed, but I've never danced to
> it so I've no idea what is reasonable. This is the last detail I need to
> hammer out before putting it up on the site.Man I soooo need a newer version
> of Finale. If anyone knows how to suppress/hide 3 of the 4 staves in a group
> in a system (not all systems) in Finale 2001d I'd love to know how... I
> don't believe it's possible. The whole thing fits well on a single page, but
> if I was able to lose those three staves on the intro line, it would give me
> tons of room to increase the size of the note elements, spacing between
> staves and spacing between systems. May have to break into the music
> school's computer lab for a quick edit.-- Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne
> Productions - http://thistledowne.orgComputer Support Specialist, Sr. -
> University of Missouri - ColumbiaCollege of Education - School of Info
> Science & Learning TechnologiesVRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support
> Systems Projects, and Truman,Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design &
> Programming - 573.999.2370
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

--
Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

CAUTION: Mableth has inadvertently hit one of Tsire's BIG RED BUTTONS OF DANCE
DOOM!

"Traditional" undocumented vs broadway legend undocumented is, well,
undocumented to just about the same degree. Attempting to create a case for
legitimacy for this seriously out of period dance by introducing 'Slavic
Traditional' steps goes counter to the goal of enhancing the living history of
our period through dance. This is frustrating and muddles the fun vs period
false argument that I constantly hear.
It is possible that I'm beating a dead horse uphill both ways in the snow here.
If that is the case we can add "traditional" Lindy Hop to our next dance event
because it certainly is fun and I've certainly been doing that a long time too.
In my head, the out of period Korobushka, Slavic steps or no, is equally the
outlier. I'm in no way upset at Mableth, he's just making a suggestion. I'm just
frustrated that this is even still a viable idea in SCA dance with all the
researchable, documentable, knock-your-socks-off dancing available.

Thanks for indulging me in my Big Red Button Rant Folks - Now back to your
regularly scheduled DanceList.
Tsire


To: CalontirDance@...: billyamymorris@...: Mon, 26
Feb 2007 18:51:39 -0600Subject: RE: [CalontirDance] Starting tempo for
Korobushka?




Any chance of doing the older (Slavic) steps to Korobushka? I realizethey're
still not documentable, but they fit the music, and they'retraditional (i.e.
nobody knows how old they are).Mableth-----Original Message-----From:
CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Christian M. CepelSent: Monday, February 26, 2007 1:39 PMTo:
CalontirDance@...: Re: [CalontirDance] Starting tempo for
Korobushka?Good advice, and yes, I will be at Bellwode even if I have to move
mountains (real mountains, not Missouri mountains) to get there. I hope to very
much be involved and if anything can be done to improve/correct any of my
efforts, I'll surely accept with much gratitude.Based on the step-close,
step-close thing it seems that even Crotchet = 102 wouldn't be too agonizing and
would leave a good amount of headroom for acceleration before feet start
smoking. I think I'll go with this for now unless someone has better ideas and
go ahead and publish to the web.Available for review in the next half hour or so
at http://music.shireofthestandingstones.org/index.php?Content=MusicTsire Tuzevo
wrote:> Some notes on Korobushka from the Dance perspective:> As much as I
despise the popularity of such an out of period thing, I dothink the 'Tetris'
music is some cool stuff to play. As for tempo: I likemost ECD at about 120. For
the speed-it-up dances you have to be careful tostart it slowly enough to have
some where to speed up to, but fast enoughthat the dancers don't have to defy
gravity to extend steps. In one measure,the dancer steps and closes 2 times.
Think about walking, stepping once perbeat, and you can figure out what will
feel comfortable, slow but not tooslow, moderate-comfy, fast and insane. >
Generally I will visit with a Pit Chief before a ball to set tempi asearly in
the process as makes him or her feel comfortable. If you will be atBellwode
Symposium, I'd be happy to sit and do a tempo check with you or youcan sit in on
the one the Conna and I will inevitably do before the eveningdancing. > Tsire>>>
To: CalontirDance@...: christian@...: Mon, 26Feb 2007
11:43:25 -0600Subject: [CalontirDance] Starting tempo forKorobushka?>>>>> I
haven't heard this played in a long time by a dance ensemble, so I can'tremember
where they began the tempo at and accelerated from. I like the wayit flows at
crotchet = 120, but since it accelerates, I was wondering if theinitial tempo
marking should be perhaps something like crotchet = 108? I'msure the musicians
can play it at nosebleed speed, but I've never danced toit so I've no idea what
is reasonable. This is the last detail I need tohammer out before putting it up
on the site.Man I soooo need a newer versionof Finale. If anyone knows how to
suppress/hide 3 of the 4 staves in a groupin a system (not all systems) in
Finale 2001d I'd love to know how... Idon't believe it's possible. The whole
thing fits well on a single page, butif I was able to lose those three staves on
the intro line, it would give metons of room to increase the size of the note
elements, spacing betweenstaves and spacing between systems. May have to break
into the musicschool's computer lab for a quick edit.-- Christian M. Cepel -
ThistledowneProductions - http://thistledowne.orgComputer Support Specialist,
Sr. -University of Missouri - ColumbiaCollege of Education - School of
InfoScience & Learning TechnologiesVRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools
SupportSystems Projects, and Truman,Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design
&Programming - 573.999.2370 >


_________________________________________________________________
Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces.
It's easy!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 2/27/07 8:59 AM, "Tsire Tuzevo" <tsire@...> wrote:

>  CAUTION: Mableth has inadvertently hit one of Tsire's BIG RED BUTTONS OF
> DANCE DOOM!
<giant snip>

When Contantia plays the ³Duck Dance² on recorder, it sounds really
medieval...

;)

Conna



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And thank you for playing from your audience too.  Sitting listening to you
all play allowed me to actually sit and relax and not feel guilty for not
running off to find something else to help with or do.

Lady Rowan Houndskeeper
Barony of Three Rivers, Calontir
rowan@...

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too
dark to read." - Groucho Marx


On 2/25/07 8:35 PM, "Paul A. Byers" <mightypav@...> wrote:
>
> I just want to thank everyone who came and played in the music pit with me
> this weekend at Chieftains. I counted 9 of us!  Mistress Conna, you were
> wonderful as always.  I hope to introduce a few of the new, to me, pieces
> we played to my local music group.  I was very impressed with the two
young
> lords and the beautiful lady recorder players who joined us.  The little
> 8-9 year old boy was a charmer!  But to have his Excellency Dirge (Volkmar
> to the newer folks) join us and her Grace Acline bringing in her wonderful
> cello!  (the intro to karabuska on a cello was very interesting and fun!)
> It was just a sparkling great time for an old, crippled up, fat rebec
player.
>
> I loved the folks who would come up, dance a few steps, and bow to us and
> move on.  It was a very organic and natural music pit.
>
> Pav
>
I had a terrific time! Thanks for letting me slip in and out as I needed to.
Wish I could have spent the entire day there! But it was a nice and relaxed
gathering, and I was glad to join in when I could.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 2/27/07 12:35 PM, "Rowan" <rowan@...> wrote:

> And thank you for playing from your audience too.  Sitting listening to you
> all play allowed me to actually sit and relax and not feel guilty for not
> running off to find something else to help with or do.
>
> Lady Rowan Houndskeeper
> Barony of Three Rivers, Calontir
> rowan@... <mailto:rowan%40french.toast.net>

Ahem... Your Ladyship, donıt you think you should update your sig line? ;)

Congratulations!
Conna


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm not at a loss per se, but as I'm hoping to be useful, I'll ask.

Does anyone have anything they'd like notated cleanly and midi for
practice exported in the manner done for Petit Vriens and Korobushka on
http://music.shireofthestandingstones.org/index.php?Content=Music

Changes to some existing piece or handwrites you'd like incorporated
into a small file-size high-qual print format?

In Service,

    "Merry"

--
Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370

Tsire Tuzevo wrote:
[...]
  > we can add "traditional" Lindy Hop to our next dance event because it
certainly is fun
  > and I've certainly been doing that a long time too.

Tsire, my line always used to be "well, the Hustle and the Bunny Hop are..."
I said that once too often at Pennsic, and, well... Did you know you can
do the Bunny Hop with Italian Dance Steps?
http://www.calonsong.org/Dancestuff/saltarello_di_lapino.htm

katriana
keeper of odd stuff

I agree that, if possible, we would prefer to use period dance.

My point was that if we _must_ have Korbushka (tune documentable to early
19th century according to some references of my Dad's), then it would be
preferable to do something that is at least _possibly_ compatible with
period practice, instead of the English Country dance version which is about
as period as a Monty Python sketch.

There is a big difference between good and bad.  However there is also a big
difference between bad and worse.

Mableth



-----Original Message-----
From: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Tsire Tuzevo
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:00 AM
To: calontirdance@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [CalontirDance] Starting tempo for Korobushka?

  CAUTION: Mableth has inadvertently hit one of Tsire's BIG RED BUTTONS OF
DANCE DOOM!

"Traditional" undocumented vs broadway legend undocumented is, well,
undocumented to just about the same degree. Attempting to create a case for
legitimacy for this seriously out of period dance by introducing 'Slavic
Traditional' steps goes counter to the goal of enhancing the living history
of our period through dance. This is frustrating and muddles the fun vs
period false argument that I constantly hear.
It is possible that I'm beating a dead horse uphill both ways in the snow
here. If that is the case we can add "traditional" Lindy Hop to our next
dance event because it certainly is fun and I've certainly been doing that a
long time too. In my head, the out of period Korobushka, Slavic steps or no,
is equally the outlier. I'm in no way upset at Mableth, he's just making a
suggestion. I'm just frustrated that this is even still a viable idea in SCA
dance with all the researchable, documentable, knock-your-socks-off dancing
available.

Thanks for indulging me in my Big Red Button Rant Folks - Now back to your
regularly scheduled DanceList.
Tsire

Look, now you've pressed one of My buttons.

If we dismiss everything which isn't well documented, then we'll have to
toss out much of the Inns of court, the early Burgundian, and even Arbeau.
There are so many ambiguities in the primary sources that many of our dances
are at best wild guesses.  As far as I know, none of our sources were
intended to provide authoritative instruction to students without the aid of
teachers and a living tradition.  Even Playford has more then a few sticky
points, and it blows away most of the other sources.

On a more philosophical note, and just as a personal preference.  I like to
see people with Scandinavian persona's attempting to do the best
reconstruction we can do of Scandi dancing, etc.  We know that there was
dancing during the time of the Icelandic family sagas.  And we're pretty
sure that it didn't bear much resemblance to Negri and Caroso.  So if you're
trying to avoid in-authenticity...

Also I refuse to just give up.  If we know that 12th century Bohemians
danced at harvest festivals, then there must space in the SCA for the best
available re-creations of 12th century Bohemian dance.  Even if the best
documentation would make a hippopotamus gag.

Another more subtle problem we all face is that we are trying to re-create
mostly social dance forms, not performance traditions.  If, for instance, we
are re-creating an authentic Elizabethan feast with dancing, then the period
thing is for the dancing to be done by the populace, not by a small group
that is specially trained and rehearsed.  Hasapikos might very well be done
at a medieval Greek wedding.  But it would be done by the wedding guests,
not by performers.

Mableth

Mableth,

I admire your zeal and your goals.

Generally what I'm talking about here is not doing the known documented out of
period things. Korobushka's music is known and documented to the early 19th
century. This should not get a pass, especially with the 'fun' or 'traditional'
arguments.  I'll make and attempt on Orchesographie, Noblita, and other
in-period primary sources for this reason as well. They are known and documented
to the time period rather than definitively outside it.
As for your notes about who's dancing what where - who's English dinner are we
at? If it's peasantry you may be correct, if it's the court and nobles ( as we
all attempt to be) then late in our period we'd be dong imported Italian dances.
Evidence of dance classes being a strong part of the noble culture in England is
quite easy to find. You may want to check up on the assertion that the English
weren't doing performance dance. Also Check Orchesographie for performance dance
from France and Caroso, Dominico and Negri for performance dance from a similar
time frame in Italy. Heck check the Nuremberg manuscripts too, there's a lovely
set of confused reconstructions of italian and French dances in there as well as
a treatise on how awful it is to dance Italian dance and be German. It's my
favorite kind of evidence that something was done. It has to be done to be
complained about. Much like our beloved and reviled Korobushka.



Katriona -

Let me see a tripple step into an aerial flip in Italian steps - Bring it on
baby! Bring it on!

Tsire


_________________________________________________________________
Discover the new Windows Vista
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SNIP
there's a lovely set of confused reconstructions of italian and French
dances in there as well as a treatise on how awful it is to dance Italian
dance and be German. It's my favorite kind of evidence that something was
done. It has to be done to be complained about.
SNIP

I always was partial to the church proscriptions and bans as the evidence
for something being done.  If the church says its a Sin then you know it
must have been popular!  ;)

HL Rowan Houndskeeper
                                             (Is that better Conna? :)
Barony of Three Rivers, Calontir
rowan@...

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too
dark to read." - Groucho Marx


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Did the Vatican keep records of excommunications?  You don't want those
evil gits from sneaking back in by the back door...  It's a good idea to
keep records.  Dancing minions of Satan!

Rowan wrote:
> SNIP
> there's a lovely set of confused reconstructions of italian and French
> dances in there as well as a treatise on how awful it is to dance Italian
> dance and be German. It's my favorite kind of evidence that something was
> done. It has to be done to be complained about.
> SNIP
>
> I always was partial to the church proscriptions and bans as the evidence
> for something being done.  If the church says its a Sin then you know it
> must have been popular!  ;)
>
> HL Rowan Houndskeeper
>                                             (Is that better Conna? :)
> Barony of Three Rivers, Calontir
> rowan@...
>
> "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too
> dark to read." - Groucho Marx
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

--
Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370

Hi Philippe and list,

I tried really hard to track down Lady Phaedraıs contact info through some
music friends I have at Pennsic. They werenıt able to find her contact info,
but one did send me this website:
http://tirannon.tky.hut.fi/dance/sca_mp3/extra/phaedria/index.htm

I wasnıt able to get this site to work for me. Hereıs a second site I was
given:
  http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~praetzel/phaedria.html
From this site, it sounds like you could contact Eric directly for her
contact info.

Sorry I wasnıt able to come up with an address for you.

Conna



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No no.. I'm grateful.  I found this one  <kpereyra@...> but it
failed.  I think I shall be forced to take your advice.  Thank you!

For a little good news... I'm whittling down the steel wall that is my
wife's objections to upgrading Finale (reasonable objections being we're
ultra poor...  will have to put a little bit away from every check), so
my notations will probably look better, sound better, provide more
output options, and most importantly, relieve a lot of those painful
death torture sessions with Finale 2001d.

--
Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370

Avatar is a very nice fellow.  :)

--
Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370

...but, and I freely admit it could be from my own ignorance, I've never
gotten the humorous lyric for Hole in the Wall to completely fit the music.

Is it just me and everyone else can, or is it everyone?

If it's everyone, could we as a group perhaps undertake to make slight
modifications where necessary or is this a holy chicken that cannot be
plucked, a sacred water buffalo that has the right of way, a [insert
your own goofy metaphor here]?

I've actually bitten the smallest tippy-tip-tip part off of my tongue
when trying to get the bare bodkin part out before.

--
Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370

You're cracking me up so much! Thanks for this and the traditional cheese
comments. Your e-mails to the list so often make my day.

Tsire


To: CalontirDance@...: christian@...: Mon, 5 Mar 2007
01:29:47 -0600Subject: [CalontirDance] Ok. I hope I'm not stepping on any toes
here...




...but, and I freely admit it could be from my own ignorance, I've never gotten
the humorous lyric for Hole in the Wall to completely fit the music.Is it just
me and everyone else can, or is it everyone?If it's everyone, could we as a
group perhaps undertake to make slight modifications where necessary or is this
a holy chicken that cannot be plucked, a sacred water buffalo that has the right
of way, a [insert your own goofy metaphor here]?I've actually bitten the
smallest tippy-tip-tip part off of my tongue when trying to get the bare bodkin
part out before.-- Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions -
http://thistledowne.orgComputer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri
- ColumbiaCollege of Education - School of Info Science & Learning
TechnologiesVRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and
Truman,Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370


_________________________________________________________________
Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger 
http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmai\
ltagline

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 3/5/07 1:29 AM, "Christian M. Cepel" <christian@...> wrote:
> ...but, and I freely admit it could be from my own ignorance, I've never
> gotten the humorous lyric for Hole in the Wall to completely fit the music.
>
> Is it just me and everyone else can, or is it everyone?
>
> If it's everyone, could we as a group perhaps undertake to make slight
> modifications where necessary or is this a holy chicken that cannot be
> plucked, a sacred water buffalo that has the right of way, a [insert
> your own goofy metaphor here]?
>
> I've actually bitten the smallest tippy-tip-tip part off of my tongue
> when trying to get the bare bodkin part out before.


Oh, we make it work, alright! Anything to get it over with as quickly as
possible. Maybe a few vomitus chunks spill out along with the lyrics, but we
try to keep that to a minimum, for the sake of the instruments.

Conna



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Would it help if I made a recording of bad midi crumhorns, kazoos and the lyrics
that we could just blast from a boombox whenever that dance is requested? In my
head there someone hits play and then all the musicians scuttle off the stage as
if the 'pin' has been pulled and don't come back until the next, hopefully more
palatable dance is set to start. too much?? Funny in my head at least.

Tsire
_________________________________________________________________
Discover the new Windows Vista
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 3/5/07 10:18 AM, "Tsire Tuzevo" <tsire@...> wrote:
>
> Would it help if I made a recording of bad midi crumhorns, kazoos and the
> lyrics that we could just blast from a boombox whenever that dance is
> requested? In my head there someone hits play and then all the musicians
> scuttle off the stage as if the 'pin' has been pulled and don't come back
> until the next, hopefully more palatable dance is set to start. too much??
> Funny in my head at least.
>
> Tsire

LOVE IT!!
Conna


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So... is it just me?  Can the lyrics be sung w/o cramming several words
into each note?  I've tried... I swear I have.

Whatever you do, make sure you hand out earplugs and include the Brown
Note http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note

I'm a little irritated at all these folks 'disproving' this.  I've been
to several concerts where if I'm in front of the bass array, my entire
GI system will start reacting violently to the stimulation and if I
don't loose control of things, I've never stuck around long enough to
find out if I would... it sure feels like I'm gonna.

Carol O'Connell wrote:
> On 3/5/07 10:18 AM, "Tsire Tuzevo" <tsire@...> wrote:
>
>> Would it help if I made a recording of bad midi crumhorns, kazoos and the
>> lyrics that we could just blast from a boombox whenever that dance is
>> requested? In my head there someone hits play and then all the musicians
>> scuttle off the stage as if the 'pin' has been pulled and don't come back
>> until the next, hopefully more palatable dance is set to start. too much??
>> Funny in my head at least.
>>
>> Tsire
>>
>
> LOVE IT!!
> Conna
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

--
Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ok... what's the story on this?   I believe I was told that the copy I
have was performed by....... The Alan Parsons Project  :)

Is this true?   I've been looking for it all over that horrid beast they
call iTunes (now I know why I've avoided it.... but I got this here gift
card.... I wish I could just use it to purchase a Wolgemut cd.... not
rips..the actual cd, but I expect they would never give you cash value
for the thing.).


--
Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370

The tune used is from a Manheim Steamroller/Fresh Aire album. I don't
know the song or album name

Conrad


________________________________

From: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christian M. Cepel
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 5:27 PM
To: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CalontirDance] Duchess Rondallynn's Pavanne



Ok... what's the story on this? I believe I was told that the copy I
have was performed by....... The Alan Parsons Project :)

Is this true? I've been looking for it all over that horrid beast they
call iTunes (now I know why I've avoided it.... but I got this here gift

card.... I wish I could just use it to purchase a Wolgemut cd.... not
rips..the actual cd, but I expect they would never give you cash value
for the thing.).

--
Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
<http://thistledowne.org>
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How odd... I have that album..  Thanks!

I think I was told that it's not period... is this true??  I sure do
like it.

Sauer, Michael F. wrote:
> The tune used is from a Manheim Steamroller/Fresh Aire album. I don't
> know the song or album name
>
> Conrad
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christian M. Cepel
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 5:27 PM
> To: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [CalontirDance] Duchess Rondallynn's Pavanne
>
>
>
> Ok... what's the story on this? I believe I was told that the copy I
> have was performed by....... The Alan Parsons Project :)
>
> Is this true? I've been looking for it all over that horrid beast they
> call iTunes (now I know why I've avoided it.... but I got this here gift
>
> card.... I wish I could just use it to purchase a Wolgemut cd.... not
> rips..the actual cd, but I expect they would never give you cash value
> for the thing.).
>
>

--
Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370

I wish I had found this before the last mailing so as to only main once,
but I thought this was pretty interesting......

I've no idea how they compare to what we do and there were some oddities
I thought buy all in all.... I think I may have to consider bringing a
camera to dances and tape for learning/teaching purposes.

http://www.cis.gvsu.edu/~haskinb/gvren/resources.php

Christian M. Cepel wrote:
> How odd... I have that album..  Thanks!
>
> I think I was told that it's not period... is this true??  I sure do
> like it.
>
> Sauer, Michael F. wrote:
>
>> The tune used is from a Manheim Steamroller/Fresh Aire album. I don't
>> know the song or album name
>>
>> Conrad
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christian M. Cepel
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 5:27 PM
>> To: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [CalontirDance] Duchess Rondallynn's Pavanne
>>
>>
>>
>> Ok... what's the story on this? I believe I was told that the copy I
>> have was performed by....... The Alan Parsons Project :)
>>
>> Is this true? I've been looking for it all over that horrid beast they
>> call iTunes (now I know why I've avoided it.... but I got this here gift
>>
>> card.... I wish I could just use it to purchase a Wolgemut cd.... not
>> rips..the actual cd, but I expect they would never give you cash value
>> for the thing.).
>>
>>
>>
>
>

--
Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The dance is an SCA made up that has some kik steps that were supposed
to be galliard like but really aren't.
As far as i know the music is modern - though it really does seem like a
pavane

________________________________

From: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christian M. Cepel
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 5:41 PM
To: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CalontirDance] Duchess Rondallynn's Pavanne



How odd... I have that album.. Thanks!

I think I was told that it's not period... is this true?? I sure do
like it.

Sauer, Michael F. wrote:
> The tune used is from a Manheim Steamroller/Fresh Aire album. I don't
> know the song or album name
>
> Conrad
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:CalontirDance%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:CalontirDance%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Christian M.
Cepel
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 5:27 PM
> To: CalontirDance@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:CalontirDance%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [CalontirDance] Duchess Rondallynn's Pavanne
>
>
>
> Ok... what's the story on this? I believe I was told that the copy I
> have was performed by....... The Alan Parsons Project :)
>
> Is this true? I've been looking for it all over that horrid beast they

> call iTunes (now I know why I've avoided it.... but I got this here
gift
>
> card.... I wish I could just use it to purchase a Wolgemut cd.... not
> rips..the actual cd, but I expect they would never give you cash value

> for the thing.).
>
>

--
Christian M. Cepel - Thistledowne Productions - http://thistledowne.org
<http://thistledowne.org>
Computer Support Specialist, Sr. - University of Missouri - Columbia
College of Education - School of Info Science & Learning Technologies
VRCbd, KidTools & StrategyTools Support Systems Projects, and Truman,
Library Whistlestop Project - Web Design & Programming - 573.999.2370






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]