Hi Rab

Looking at the video of your five axis router started me off looking
at five axis machines. We don't have a five axis machine at work but
the CAM software is capable so I set up the postprocessor for a
rotary table machine and made a test gcode programme which looked ok
I then made a model of a rotary table from mdf and some old steppers
from a printer mounted it on my mill drill and the thing actually
worked, no cutter of course it would have fell to pieces. The bit I
am not quite sure of at the moment is with a machine like yours with
a rotary head the cutter length would alter the x or y offset how
are you doing this? I imagine commercial machines sort this out in
the controller but mach2 which I think you are using can't do this.

Dave

It's quite tricky to work out an interface layout and working
procedure that'll make sense to novices and pros alike, and it's
getting worse as I add more features !
I'd certainly like to keep it to just one version with perhaps a
means of switching between modes but I'm concerned that this could
add unnecessary complexity. It would be quite simple to hide and
unhide the tool angle vectors, but they would still remain in the
scene, slowing things down on very complex jobs. Having said that,
the only times the vectors aren't needed are on toolpaths using only
3-axes and most people seem primarily interested in the CNC Toolkit
for its 4th and 5th axis capabilities.

It would be very handy if anyone making a toolpath could describe the
process, making notes of how they do it and of any difficulties or
methods that don't quite make sense. It's very difficult for me to
put myself in a new user's shoes as I've been using MAX since version
1 and what seems 2nd nature to me can be very obscure at first.

Rab


> I am for the tab idea, perhaps it could be expanded further such
that
> the specific menu effectively talked you through the process.  One
> for 2 axis one for 3 one for 4th axis rotary then 5 axis.  Each
with
> instructions tailored for that kind of code.
>
> Of course I have no idea how hard that would be and how much time
you
> would want to spend doing it.
>
> Might I also make a suggestion that anyone who creates a useful
tool
> path makes a basic "how to" on it.  Some screenshots, words and
> perhaps the finished article could then be made into a simple word
> document and I (or anyone else with adobe acrobat) could then PDF
it
> and put it in the files section.  This I think would produce really
> useful documentation at minimal time expenditure, and would be a
nice
> thankyou for the software.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Graham

I've uploaded some photos with close-ups of the 4th & 5th Axis unit.

Basically what it is are two satellite dish-positioning units mounted
at right angles (thanks to Alan for originally pointing these out to
me)

The units are made by Globe Motors and the motor code is 409A582
rated at 12V. A quick Google search will bring up some links.

I removed the brake and tach sensor and replaced them with a US
Digital encoder disc and pickup and drive them with Gecko 340 servo
controllers. I had to make up some differential transmitter /
receiver circuits for the encoders as they were picking up noise over
the cable run. (see http://www.geckodrive.com and
http://www.usdigital.com )

The units have a flange that I machined off and I mounted them at 90
degrees to each other using some 8mm aluminium angle (this bracket
should probably be beefed up)

There is an amount of backlash in these units, some more than others,
but then they are very cheap. The motor / encoder assembly is quite
long and sticks out beyond the unit a bit too much. You also need
quite a bit extra clearance to allow the tool to rotate and your work
area will be smaller than for an equivalent size 3-axis machine.
If I could find a low weight / low backlash / reasonable cost, etc.
alternative then I `d use that.
I used a Sherline CNC-ready rotary unit for the 5th axis on my Taig
mill, but these are too heavy for the router. An alternative set-up
with timing belts and pullies could be constructed. I'm also looking
at some parallel kinematics design ideas for tilting the tool angle
as an alternative to rotary units.
I can quickly change out the Z-axis on my router from the 4/5 axis
unit to just a simple, but larger router if I'm doing a job that only
requires 3-axes, or indeed a vinyl cutting knife.

There's a very informative free download at Thermwood, although I
think if I'd read that first then I'd have been put off trying to do
this at all, as it discusses a lot of the inherent problems with
accuracy.
http://www.thermwood.com/twood_site/pages/books_and_multimedia/three_d
_trim_and_machine.htm

I'd certainly encourage anyone thinking about it to have a go at a 5-
axis machine, just remember that it wasn't all that long ago that a
4th axis was thought to be exotic!

Rab

--- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, Tom Benedict <benedict@h...>
wrote:
> For the sake of not splitting codebase, it'd be nice to have one
product
> with a toggle.  Flip the toggle, it's 3D only.  Flip it back, and
you get
> the vector normals and the whole nine yards.  (The whole
> eight-point-something meters? ;) )
>
> Tom

I am for the tab idea, perhaps it could be expanded further such that
the specific menu effectively talked you through the process.  One
for 2 axis one for 3 one for 4th axis rotary then 5 axis.  Each with
instructions tailored for that kind of code.

Of course I have no idea how hard that would be and how much time you
would want to spend doing it.

Might I also make a suggestion that anyone who creates a useful tool
path makes a basic "how to" on it.  Some screenshots, words and
perhaps the finished article could then be made into a simple word
document and I (or anyone else with adobe acrobat) could then PDF it
and put it in the files section.  This I think would produce really
useful documentation at minimal time expenditure, and would be a nice
thankyou for the software.

Cheers,

Graham

I am a newbie to CNC. I am converting a drill/mill to CNC. Also
building a CNC router. Since I have just retired I have lots of time
to learn. So that is what I am doing, learning. I do not have a
definite project in mind, but feel it could happen.

I have watched the <MOV> when it was posted on the Master5/Mach1/2
group. Impressive.
Bob

Well... I created a Test Folder in the File section and then added a small .jpg
file. I could open the Test Folder, but couldn't access the .jpg. The Test File
folder allowed me to delete the .jpg file. The File section allowed me to delete
the Test Folder. You can write, view, delete, but you can't read. Scratching my
head.

klickcue <klickcue@...> wrote:Earlier in my day (everyone is on a
different clock), I was able to
download the Toolkit. Now the Toolkit gets the same error as the
videos. The permissions of the folder are not migrating to the files.

Chris

--- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "rainnea" <rainnea@b...> wrote:
> I can view all files under my own account, but none under a test
> account.
> I changed the file settings to full public access but it's made no
> difference.
>
> Suggestions anyone ?
>
> Rab
>
> --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "klickcue" <klickcue@y...>
wrote:
> > Hi Rab,
> >
> > I was able to write to the video folder. I can't read the video
> > folder. Can you read the last file uploaded into the video folder?
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "rainnea" <rainnea@b...>
wrote:
> > > This is strange, I have the permissions for the Files section
to;
> > >
> > > Members (upload/modify/download files)
> > >
> > > If you can post to this group, you should be able to access the
> > files
> > > section. Can anyone access the files section successfully ?
> > >
> > > I could set the files section to be public access, but wanted
to
> > keep
> > > some control over access to the beta.
> > >
> > > Rab
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie34231" <ozzie@c...>
> wrote:
> > > > Hi Rab,
> > > > I tried to get into the files section but was denied access.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry


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Chris Klindt
http://www.geocities.com/klickcue/

Get away from your computer and go...
Play some POOL!!!!


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Moderator

Thanks that I've heard 4,5 Axis are the used-mechanical unit of
satellite positioning device.

It'll be uncertain for studying or discussion of this group.
If possible, please let us know Model and MFG name of satelite device
you using.  It'll be starting point more than photo or video.

Regards

Earlier in my day (everyone is on a different clock), I was able to
download the Toolkit. Now the Toolkit gets the same error as the
videos. The permissions of the folder are not migrating to the files.

Chris

--- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "rainnea" <rainnea@b...> wrote:
> I can view all files under my own account, but none under a test
> account.
> I changed the file settings to full public access but it's made no
> difference.
>
> Suggestions anyone ?
>
> Rab
>
> --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "klickcue" <klickcue@y...>
wrote:
> > Hi Rab,
> >
> > I was able to write to the video folder. I can't read the video
> > folder. Can you read the last file uploaded into the video folder?
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "rainnea" <rainnea@b...>
wrote:
> > > This is strange, I have the permissions for the Files section
to;
> > >
> > > Members (upload/modify/download files)
> > >
> > > If you can post to this group, you should be able to access the
> > files
> > > section. Can anyone access the files section successfully ?
> > >
> > > I could set the files section to be public access, but wanted
to
> > keep
> > > some control over access to the beta.
> > >
> > > Rab
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie34231" <ozzie@c...>
> wrote:
> > > > Hi Rab,
> > > > I tried to get into the files section but was denied access.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry

The 4th/5th axis assembly has attracted quite a lot of interest.
I'll take some photos tommorrow and upload them (the photo section
seems to work ok)

Rab

--- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "klickcue" <klickcue@y...> wrote:
> Hi Rab,
>
> I will start it off. Where did you hide your servos for your 4th
and
> 5th axis gearhead? http://www.rainnea.com/cnc_5axis.htm
>
> Chris
>
> --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "rainnea" <rainnea@b...> wrote:
> > With the number of people interested in building and asking me
> about
> > their own 5-axis mills, routers or hexapods, I think this group
> could
> > probably usefully discuss machine building, or at least the 5-
axis
> > aspects of machine building and control.
> >
> > Rab

I can view all files under my own account, but none under a test
account.
I changed the file settings to full public access but it's made no
difference.

Suggestions anyone ?

Rab

--- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "klickcue" <klickcue@y...> wrote:
> Hi Rab,
>
> I was able to write to the video folder. I can't read the video
> folder. Can you read the last file uploaded into the video folder?
>
> Chris
>
> --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "rainnea" <rainnea@b...> wrote:
> > This is strange, I have the permissions for the Files section to;
> >
> > Members (upload/modify/download files)
> >
> > If you can post to this group, you should be able to access the
> files
> > section. Can anyone access the files section successfully ?
> >
> > I could set the files section to be public access, but wanted to
> keep
> > some control over access to the beta.
> >
> > Rab
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie34231" <ozzie@c...>
wrote:
> > > Hi Rab,
> > > I tried to get into the files section but was denied access.
> > >
> > > Jerry

Hi Rab,

I was able to write to the video folder. I can't read the video
folder. Can you read the last file uploaded into the video folder?

Chris

--- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "rainnea" <rainnea@b...> wrote:
> This is strange, I have the permissions for the Files section to;
>
> Members (upload/modify/download files)
>
> If you can post to this group, you should be able to access the
files
> section. Can anyone access the files section successfully ?
>
> I could set the files section to be public access, but wanted to
keep
> some control over access to the beta.
>
> Rab
>
>
>
> --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie34231" <ozzie@c...> wrote:
> > Hi Rab,
> > I tried to get into the files section but was denied access.
> >
> > Jerry

Hi Rab,

I will start it off. Where did you hide your servos for your 4th and
5th axis gearhead? http://www.rainnea.com/cnc_5axis.htm

Chris

--- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "rainnea" <rainnea@b...> wrote:
> With the number of people interested in building and asking me
about
> their own 5-axis mills, routers or hexapods, I think this group
could
> probably usefully discuss machine building, or at least the 5-axis
> aspects of machine building and control.
>
> Rab

So do I.
Paul
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: inetd_conf
   To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:36 PM
   Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Hey Rab - Video clips give 403


   I tried to take a look at those video clips, but I got a 403 error
   for both of them.

   Tom


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I tried to take a look at those video clips, but I got a 403 error
for both of them.

Tom

This is strange, I have the permissions for the Files section to;

Members (upload/modify/download files)

If you can post to this group, you should be able to access the files
section. Can anyone access the files section successfully ?

I could set the files section to be public access, but wanted to keep
some control over access to the beta.

Rab



--- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie34231" <ozzie@c...> wrote:
> Hi Rab,
> I tried to get into the files section but was denied access.
>
> Jerry

Right now I'm just dealing with having two new learning curves. ;)

I've got a couple of projects on the block right now, none of which
strictly NEED it, but a couple that'd be fun to play with.  One I'm
working on is cutting nosecones for rockets.  The "shoot up into the sky"
variety are all more or less axially symmetric, but there are two I'm
going to try later on that aren't.  The first is a nosecone for a
Titan-style booster.  There are two boosters on either side of the second
stage.  The nosecones for the boosters need to "lean" toward the second
stage a little.  The second asymmetric nosecone I'm planning on cutting
soon is the nosecone for a rocket powered R/C car.  It's highly
asymmetric, being basically flat on the bottom and curved everywhere else.
It also needs to have a hollow cavity to house the front wheel.

Past that, I'm planning on using it for whatever strikes my fancy.  I love
CNC.

Tom

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, klickcue wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> What are you all trying to do with Rab's CNC Toolkit?
>
> I am trying to build pool cues with the Toolkit. Maybe this is why
> Rab started the newsgroup, so he didn't have to baby sit me :o). But
> really, what are you all trying to do. I am doing 4-axis rotary.
> It is a great script. The more we push it, the better it will get.
> Anyone doing 1 rail sweeps, 2 rail sweeps, lofting, model parts,
> rings, or other things?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> CNC_Toolkit-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Hi Rab,
I tried to get into the files section but was denied access.

Jerry

With the number of people interested in building and asking me about
their own 5-axis mills, routers or hexapods, I think this group could
probably usefully discuss machine building, or at least the 5-axis
aspects of machine building and control.

Rab

--- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Stabler" <eexgs@n...>
wrote:
> --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "klickcue" <klickcue@y...>
wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > What are you all trying to do with Rab's CNC Toolkit?
> >
> > I am trying to build pool cues with the Toolkit. Maybe this is
why
> > Rab started the newsgroup, so he didn't have to baby sit me :o).
> But
> > really, what are you all trying to do. I am doing 4-axis rotary.
> > It is a great script. The more we push it, the better it will get.
> > Anyone doing 1 rail sweeps, 2 rail sweeps, lofting, model parts,
> > rings, or other things?
> >
> > Chris
>
>
> I am hoping to drive a homebrew 5 axis hexapod.  Plus some
additional
> 4th axis stuff on my Proxxon mill.
>
> Graham Stabler

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the CNC_Toolkit
group.

   File        : /CNC Toolkit Beta/CNC_Toolkit_Beta_MaxScript_3.07g.mse
   Uploaded by : rainnea <rainnea@...>
   Description :

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CNC_Toolkit/files/CNC%20Toolkit%20Beta/CNC_Toolkit\
_Beta_MaxScript_3.07g.mse

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

rainnea <rainnea@...>

--- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "klickcue" <klickcue@y...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> What are you all trying to do with Rab's CNC Toolkit?
>
> I am trying to build pool cues with the Toolkit. Maybe this is why
> Rab started the newsgroup, so he didn't have to baby sit me :o).
But
> really, what are you all trying to do. I am doing 4-axis rotary.
> It is a great script. The more we push it, the better it will get.
> Anyone doing 1 rail sweeps, 2 rail sweeps, lofting, model parts,
> rings, or other things?
>
> Chris


I am hoping to drive a homebrew 5 axis hexapod.  Plus some additional
4th axis stuff on my Proxxon mill.

Graham Stabler

Hi Chris,

I'll add that in the next version,
adding it for a plunge after a G0 move will be quite straightforward.

It would also be possible in theory to control the Z-axis feedrate
relative to side cutting movement while doing 3D contouring moves if
I extend the 'Recalculate Feedrate per Move' function.

Rab

--- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "klickcue" <klickcue@y...> wrote:
> Hi Rab,
>
> I see something that would be nice to have in the CNC Toolkit, an
> adjustable feed rate for Z-axis plunge. Plunging at 10 inches per
> minute into Black Cherry with a 1/32" cutter to .125 inches deep at
> 10,000 RPM spindle speed is exciting. Where do all the little chips
> goes :o)?
>
> Chris Klindt

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the CNC_Toolkit
group.

   File        : /Video Clips/5Axis_Router_First_Cuts.MPG
   Uploaded by : rainnea <rainnea@...>
   Description : 1st test cuts on 5-axis router

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CNC_Toolkit/files/Video%20Clips/5Axis_Router_First\
_Cuts.MPG

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

rainnea <rainnea@...>

Hi all,

What are you all trying to do with Rab's CNC Toolkit?

I am trying to build pool cues with the Toolkit. Maybe this is why
Rab started the newsgroup, so he didn't have to baby sit me :o). But
really, what are you all trying to do. I am doing 4-axis rotary.
It is a great script. The more we push it, the better it will get.
Anyone doing 1 rail sweeps, 2 rail sweeps, lofting, model parts,
rings, or other things?

Chris

For the sake of not splitting codebase, it'd be nice to have one product
with a toggle.  Flip the toggle, it's 3D only.  Flip it back, and you get
the vector normals and the whole nine yards.  (The whole
eight-point-something meters? ;) )

Tom

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, klickcue wrote:

> Hi Rab,
>
> I really don't care, but I think everyone needs to be on the same
> page in the book. As you know from my experiences, the learning curve
> can be steep.
> I am just excited to have the CNC Toolkit available!
>
> Chris Klindt
> Lawrence, Kansas
>
> --- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "rainnea" <rainnea@b...> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I'm considering splitting the CNC Toolkit into two programs.
> > One would be for 3-axis machining, engraving, vinyl cutting, plasma
> > cutting, etc. and wouldn't require any calculations for the angle
> of
> > the tool in relation to the work piece. This could dispense with
> the
> > tool vector calculations, display and storage and should be
> > significantly quicker and simpler as a result.
> > The other program would be a continuation of the current version
> and
> > focused on 4 and 5-axis toolpaths (although retaining the
> capability
> > for 3-axis).
> >
> > What would users like to see?
> >
> > Rab
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> CNC_Toolkit-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Hi Rab,

I see something that would be nice to have in the CNC Toolkit, an
adjustable feed rate for Z-axis plunge. Plunging at 10 inches per
minute into Black Cherry with a 1/32" cutter to .125 inches deep at
10,000 RPM spindle speed is exciting. Where do all the little chips
goes :o)?

Chris Klindt

Hi Rab,

I really don't care, but I think everyone needs to be on the same
page in the book. As you know from my experiences, the learning curve
can be steep.
I am just excited to have the CNC Toolkit available!

Chris Klindt
Lawrence, Kansas

--- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "rainnea" <rainnea@b...> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm considering splitting the CNC Toolkit into two programs.
> One would be for 3-axis machining, engraving, vinyl cutting, plasma
> cutting, etc. and wouldn't require any calculations for the angle
of
> the tool in relation to the work piece. This could dispense with
the
> tool vector calculations, display and storage and should be
> significantly quicker and simpler as a result.
> The other program would be a continuation of the current version
and
> focused on 4 and 5-axis toolpaths (although retaining the
capability
> for 3-axis).
>
> What would users like to see?
>
> Rab

Hi Rab,

Why not leave the toolkit as is. Save the developement time and
concentrate on the one package. Thats my vote as I have Dolphin and
Visualmill for most applications. My 5-axis work in progress will
require the full capability of the current toolkit.

By the way, great Idea starting the group.

Alan Trest
In "Wet" Pensacola Florida


--- In CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com, "rainnea" <rainnea@b...> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm considering splitting the CNC Toolkit into two programs.
> One would be for 3-axis machining, engraving, vinyl cutting, plasma
> cutting, etc. and wouldn't require any calculations for the angle
of
> the tool in relation to the work piece. This could dispense with
the
> tool vector calculations, display and storage and should be
> significantly quicker and simpler as a result.
> The other program would be a continuation of the current version
and
> focused on 4 and 5-axis toolpaths (although retaining the
capability
> for 3-axis).
>
> What would users like to see?
>
> Rab

Great idea!! Please do it.
Thank you,
Paul
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: rainnea
   To: CNC_Toolkit@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 5:08 PM
   Subject: [CNC_Toolkit] Should the CNC Toolkit be split into two ?


   Hi All,

   I'm considering splitting the CNC Toolkit into two programs.
   One would be for 3-axis machining, engraving, vinyl cutting, plasma
   cutting, etc. and wouldn't require any calculations for the angle of
   the tool in relation to the work piece. This could dispense with the
   tool vector calculations, display and storage and should be
   significantly quicker and simpler as a result.
   The other program would be a continuation of the current version and
   focused on 4 and 5-axis toolpaths (although retaining the capability
   for 3-axis).

   What would users like to see?

   Rab



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               ADVERTISEMENT




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi All,

I'm considering splitting the CNC Toolkit into two programs.
One would be for 3-axis machining, engraving, vinyl cutting, plasma
cutting, etc. and wouldn't require any calculations for the angle of
the tool in relation to the work piece. This could dispense with the
tool vector calculations, display and storage and should be
significantly quicker and simpler as a result.
The other program would be a continuation of the current version and
focused on 4 and 5-axis toolpaths (although retaining the capability
for 3-axis).

What would users like to see?

Rab

Hi everyone,

Welcome to the CNC Toolkit forum, I look forward to hearing from
folks using the software and hope that you can help each other as
well.

Regards,

Rab