OWNER REVIEW - EMS Summit 5500
May 8, 2006


Name: Seth Daniels
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Height: 6 ft 4 in (1.9 m)
Torso length: 21.5 in (55 cm)
Weight: 160 lbs (68 kg)
Email address: ssdaniels(at)juno(dot)com
City, State, Country: Yreka, California, U.S.
Backpacking Background: I started backpacking about two years ago and
serious hiking about 4 years ago.  In that time I have not been able
to get out as much as I have wanted, only about 100 mi (161 kg) per
summer but I am hoping that this summer will be different.  I love to
be out in the woods with my friends enjoying nature.  I backpack
within the Marble Mountain Wilderness area of Northern California
where the terrain is mountainous with elevations ranging from 2000 ft
(610 m) to over 8000 ft (2438 m).  Being California the temperatures
in the summer in the mountains are roughly 70 F (21.11 c) to 90 F
(32.22 c) in the day with temps dropping at night to a cool, if not
cold temp.  I am not overly concerned with being as lightweight as
possible but it is nice to be able to shed a few pounds here and there.

Product Information
Manufacturer: Eastern Mountain Sports (EMS)
Year of Manufacture: 2002
URL: http://www.ems.com
Listed Weight: 6 lbs 8 oz (2.95 kg)
Actual Weight: 6 lbs 2 oz (2.78 kg)
MSRP: $199.00

Volume: 5500 cu in (90 L)
Torso Length: 18 - 22 in (45.72 � 56 cm)
Dimensions: 35 x 14 x 10 in (89 x 35.56 x 25.40 cm)
Pack Fabric: 420 Denier nylon ripstop
Bottom Fabric: 1,000 Denier Kodra nylon
Bottom Access: Yes
Front Access: Yes
Top Access: Yes
Hydration Sleeve: Yes
Hydration Port: Yes
Primary Use: Long distance trips
Pack Type: Internal Frame
Frame Sheet: Yes
Stays: Twin aluminum stays
Load-Lifter Straps: Yes
Waist Belt: Yes
Sternum Strap: Yes
Sprindrift Collar: Yes
(Specifications from www.EMS.com)

The Summit 5500 is an expedition type pack made by Eastern Mountain
Sports. This internal frame pack extends via the spindrift collar from
5500 cu in (90 L) to 6000 cu in (98 L).  The pack has a floating lid
that easily converts to a large (I do not know the actual volume)
fanny pack for day hikes away from camp.  Separate from the main
compartment there are three other pockets.  On the front access panel
there is a large pocket that has in it a waterproof pocket ideal for
maps, guidebooks, journals, or whatever else needs to stay completely
dry. Also in this front pocket are mesh pockets ideal for organizing
little items that may need easy access. There is also a large pocket
on the lid of the pack.  This pocket has the zipper at the back of the
pocket for easy access while the pack is still on.  Also on the lid
there is a mesh pocket underneath for smaller items.  The pack has two
compression straps on either side of the main compartment, two over
the bottom access panel for the sleeping bag, and four straps
connecting the lid to the pack.  The sleeping bag compartment can be
separated from the rest of the main compartment with a drawstring you
can take your sleeping bag out without having to repack everything
when you put it back in.  On my pack, which is an older version, there
are four daisy chains, two on the front access panel and two on the
lid.  It looks like they have added one more on the new version on the
front access panel. The pack has two ice axe and trekking pole loops
and behind the water-bottle pockets on either side are ski slots. The
shoulder straps pivot in place and the waist belt is mounted to the
pack so that all weight goes onto the hips, where it should be (I have
heard that EMS uses the exact same suspension systems as on The North
Face packs, however I do not know if this is true or not). My pack is
blue in color with black webbing and gray top, bottom, and stitching.

This is the pack that I have use every time I go backpacking.  I hike
in the Marble Mountain Wilderness Area of far Northern California.
Here the trails are steep, there are many creek crossings, especially
early in the season, and there is a lot of elevation gain. The
altitude of this area ranges from around 2000 ft (610 m) to over 8000
ft (2438 m). The temperature in the summer ranges from 70 F (21.11 C)
to about 90 f (32.22 c).

On my trips I have never noticed any pressure points or any discomfort
from this pack. The suspension really does put all the weight onto my
hips and my shoulders are not sore at all at the end of a long day
hiking.  This pack also does not through me off balance, which is nice
while hopping from stone to stone, or walking on a log across a raging
creek. Being an expedition size pack I have never run out of room
while trying to fit everything into it.  Also this pack does not have
any frivolous features that could weigh down the serious backpacker.

After owning this pack for four years and using it every summer it
shows very little wear.  The only thing that I see that has torn is
about a 1 in (2.54 cm) length of mesh on the right water-bottle pocket
has torn away from the elastic top. There is no other sign of anything
tearing.  All the straps look brand new and have no sign of wear.
There are no loose threads on any of the stitching and none of the
zippers have ever got caught or stuck.

I have found that the hydration bladder (which is not included) is
hard to remove from the sleeve at the back of the main compartment.
It takes me a few minutes to shift everything within the pack so I can
pull it out, and it takes the same effort to put it back in once the
bladder is full again.

This pack has served me well for four years and I look forward to the
years it will serve me in the future.

Summary
I have found this pack to be able to stand up well over time and show
very little sign of wear.  It can take whatever I want to stuff in it
and it can hold the load without me feeling it on my shoulders. I have
found it to be a great pack.

Likes:
Comfortable
Very little wear
There is nothing I can't use

Dislikes:
Torn water-bottle pocket
Hard to remove hydration bladder for refilling

PLEASE READ THIS EMAIL IN FULL. IT IS MOST IMPORTANT!

Thanks for your Owner's Review.  It has been added to the Owner
Review Queue and will be picked up by an Edit Moderator soon.  Do
not worry if nothing happens with it for several days.  All our
Editors are volunteers and your report will be subject to an
official edit within fourteen days. If you have not had a response
from an Edit Moderator via the Yahoo Groups list within this
timeframe, please let me know directly at jdeben@....

To assist in this process, if this is your first Owner Review we ask
that you post only ONE Owner Review for edit at a time. Our
experience is that it is more efficient for both the Editors and
yourself, if you post your first review, have it edited, approved
and uploaded before you post your second and subsequent reviews.
This way we can work with you on addressing any standard BGT policy
edits which you can incorporate into your second and subsequent
reviews before submission.

If you are new to BackpackGearTest.org, welcome to the community!
The Editors will work with you, within their own time constraints,
to get your first two Owner Reviews approved and upload in a timely
manner.  Once these first two Owner Reviews have been approved and
you have submitted your Tester Agreement you will be eligible to
start applying for Tests. If you'd like more assistance or guidance
with the process you can request a mentor by sending an email to
Jennifer P, the mentor coordinator, at (jennifer.pope@...).

You may receive edits or comments from other members of the group.
These edits and comments, while not official, should be considered
carefully, and if you find them substantial, revise and re-post your
review. Incorporating member edits and re-submitting to the list
will usually result in a better review, as well as making things
easier for the official Editor. Please put REVISED in the subject
line of your re-submitted review, if you take this route or make any
changes to your review BEFORE the review has been taken by an Edit
Moderator.

Additionally, it is important for you to monitor the Yahoo Groups
list to keep track of the progress of your Owner Review.  Once an
Editor has taken your OR and made the necessary edits they will post
their comments to the list with EDIT in the subject line.  Once you
have incorporated these edits into your review please use REPOST in
the subject line. When your OR has been approved by the Editor they
will use APPROVED in the subject line.

If you'd like to keep track of the progress of your OR, the entire
Owner Review Queue is posted to this yahoo group list on Fridays.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to ask via
the list or contact me directly.

Regards
Jamie DeBenedetto
Edit Administration Officer

Hi Jeremy

Following a review of our Owner Review queue at BackpackGearTest.org I
notice that you have not responded to the upload approval notice of your
Vasque Sundowner Mid-Weight Backpacking Boots owner review, which was
approved Apr 24 by Ted. Please refer to message number 70053
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/messages>.

Is there something we can assist with in helping you complete your Owner
Review? It would be a shame to have the work done so far disregarded,
especially when you are so close to completion.

Please let me know how you wish to proceed with this review.

Regards
Jamie DeBenedetto
Edit Administration Officer

Hi Michael

Following a review of our Owner Review queue at BackpackGearTest.org I
noticed you have not responded to the edit of your Garmin GPSMap 76CS owner
review by Ted on April 21st.  Please refer to message number 70020 at
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/messages>.

Is there something we can assist you with to help you complete your Owner
Review? It would be a pity to disregarded the work you've done so far.

Please let me know how you wish to proceed with this review.

Regards
Jamie DeBenedetto
Edit Administration Officer

Hi James

Following a review of our Owner Review queue at BackpackGearTest.org I
notice that you have not responded to the upload approval notice of your MSR
WhisperLite Stove owner review, which was Edit/Approved Apr 24 by Steve.
Please refer to message number (70060)
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/messages>.

Is there something we can assist with in helping you complete your Owner
Review? It would be a shame to have the work done so far disregarded,
especially when you are so close to completion.

Please let me know how you wish to proceed with this review.

Regards
Jamie DeBenedetto
Edit Administration Officer

Here is the latest Owner Review Queue. Any uploads done after
10:00pm Pacific Time on May 6th, 2006 will not be noted until the
next update.


AWAITING EDIT
=============

Raymond Estrella – Mountainsmith Cypher Sleeping Bag, Posted Apr 30
(msg#70167),

Ben Rakestraw(1) - Functional Design Sweetie Pie Sleeping Bag
Doubler, Posted Apr 30(msg#70169),

Erin Hamedi(1) - ehamedi(at)yahoo(dot)com – Wolfpacks Banzai Dog
Backpack - Posted May 1(msg#70179),

Raymond Estrella - High Peaks Pinnacle II Fleece Jacket – Posted May
2(msg#70186)

Cory O'Neill(2) - DIY Gear - Cat Stove – Posted May 2(msg#70185),

Jeremy Anderson(1) – [jpanderson80 at gmail dot com] - Snow Peak
Trek 700 Solo Cookset - Posted May 2(msg#70188)

Raymond Estrella - High Peaks Pinnacle II Fleece Pants - Posted May 2
(msg#70187)

Seth Daniels(2) - EMS Summit 5500 Backpack – Posted May 6
(msg#70204),

TAKEN BY AN EDITOR/EDITED
===========================

JIM - Erik Clemmenson(2) – [andv4ranaut at yahoo dot com} - Western
Mountaineering Flight Vest – Posted Feb 26, Taken Mar 4, Edit Mar 5
(msg#69584), Repost Mar 9, Edit Mar 12(msg#69704), Repost Mar 12,
Edit Mar 14(msg#69721), Follow up sent Mar 31, In Test Apr 11,

ROGER - Eric Jones(1) - Crazy Creek Chair Long Back – Posted Feb 11
(msg#69284), Taken Feb 22, Edit Feb 25(msg#69458), Follow up sent
Mar 10, No action as of Mar 24 – removed, Repost Apr 16, Edit Apr 19
(70011), Repost Apr 20,

PAM - Tord S Eriksson(1) – [tord at tord dot nu] - Hilleberg Stalon
GT Tent – Posted Apr 25, Taken Apr 27, Edit Apr 27(msg#70122), Repost
(rewrite) Apr 30, Edit Apr 30(70171),

PAM - **Lindsay Dusi(1) - Outward Hound Dog Backpack - Posted Apr 24
(msg#70055), Taken Apr 28, Edit Apr 28(msg#70150),

TED - Michael Rasmussen(1) - Dana Design Bridger Backpack – Posted
Apr 25(msg#70075), Taken May 3, Edit May 3(msg#70191),

STEVE - Jeremy Spencer(2) – [BackPacker at jbspencer.com] - The
North Face "Flash Flood" Waterproof Daypack- Posted Apr 26
(msg#70086), Taken May 4,

STEVE - Karl Daniel Fuderer(1) – Posted Apr 28(msg#70154), Revised
Apr 30(70162), Taken May 4,

APPROVED AND AWAITING UPLOAD
============================


=====================================================================
==

REVIEWS ON HOLD
===============

** Brian Watters(1) - Chaco Z/2 with Terreno Sole – Posted Feb 15
(msg# 69330),

Samson Phan(2) - Mountainsmith Ramble Backpack – Posted Apr 24
(msg#70052),

Lindsay Dusi(2) – Ruffwear Approach Pack™ II – Posted Apr 24
(msg#70057),

=====================================================================

EDITED OR APPROVED; WAITING FOR WRITER'S ACTION

ROGER - Conlan Adams(1) - Woods Canada City Lite 350 Sleeping Bag -
Posted Apr 1 (msg#69876), Taken Apr 13, Edit Apr 13(69967), Repost
Apr 13, Edit Apr 15(69990), Repost Apr 16, Edit Apr 19(70012),
follow up Apr 28

TED - Brian Thomas(1) - Katadyn Exstream Orinoco Water Purification
System – Posted April 8(msg#69931), Taken Apr 18, Edit Apr 18
(70005), follow up Apr 28, He emailed Apr 28 – has limited internet

TED - Jeremy Spencer(1) – [BackPacker@...] - Vasque
Sundowner Mid-Weight Backpacking Boots – Posted Apr 13, Taken Apr
24, Edit Apr 24(msg#70040), In Test Apr 24, Approved Apr 24(70053),
Follow up sent May 6

STEVE - James Pohlman(1) - MSR WhisperLite Stove – Posted Mar 31
(msg#69874), Revised Apr 4(69885)-labelled Repost, Taken Apr 5, Edit
Apr 7(69908), Repost Apr 16(69997), Edit/Approved Apr 24(70060),
Follow up sent May 6

(m)TED - Michael Kinese(1) - Garmin GPSMap 76CS – Posted Apr10
(msg#69944), Taken Apr 21, Edit Apr 21(msg#70020), Follow up sent
May 6

Uploaded.

--- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "edwardripleyduggan"
<erd@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeremy,
>
> Please upload to
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ow4pt
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Best,
>
> Ted
>
>
> --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy" <jerbee02@>
wrote:
> >
> > Edward,
> >
> > Thanks for the edits. I've made the corrections and uploaded it
as
> > an HTML document to the appropriate section of BGT's website.
Let me
> > know what comes next, as I'm already in the process of writing
> > another review for a different piece of gear. :)
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "edwardripleyduggan"
> > <erd@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Jeremy,
> > >
> > > This is a good shot at a first OR. Not that many edits at first
> > > glance. Please do avoid using you and yours wherever possible,
as
> > this
> > > effectively projects your experience on that of the reader.
House
> > > style is to avoid this. Please correct as noted, then upload
an
> > HTML
> > > version to the Owner Review test Folder at
> > >
> > > http://tinyurl.com/7p4t6
> > >
> > > Let me know on this list when this is done, please.
> > >
> > > You will need to be logged onto the BGT website first.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Ted
> > >
> > > BGT OR Editor
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1996 Vasque Sundowner Mid-Weight Backpacking Boots
> > >
> > > ### EDIT:
> > >
> > > Owner Review 1996 Vasque Sundowner Mid-Weight Backpacking Boots
> > > Review date:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tester Info:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Name:  Jeremy Spencer
> > > > Age:  23
> > > > Gender: Male
> > > > Height:  5'11" (180 cm)
> > > > Weight: 195 lbs (88 kg)
> > > > Email:  BackPacker     at   jbspencer   dot    com
> > > > Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
> > > >
> > > > Backpacking Background:
> > > >
> > > > I've been an avid backpacker for almost a decade,
jumpstarting
> > > > my `career' by living for a full year in a primitive
campsite
> > > > located in the rolling hills and hardwood forests of middle
> > > > Tennessee. When I moved back to my hometown of Baton Rouge,
> > > > Louisiana, I continued to stay outdoors by being an active
Boy
> > > > Scout – cumulating in my achievement of Eagle Scout rank!
I've
> > been
> > > > on numerous weeklong treks and more weekend excursions than
I'll
> > > > ever be able to count – if would be a fair estimate to say
that
> > I've
> > > > spent over 500 nights outdoors. Based in Baton Rouge, I
travel
> > > > throughout the South on a fairly regular basis – mainly in
> > mostly
> > > > flat terrain, always in a subtropical climate. I am a mid-
weight
> > > > backpacker; my average weight is around 25 lbs. I currently
work
> > as
> > > > a professional outdoors outfitter in addition to going to
> > college.
> > >
> > > ### EDIT: Bio needs to be trimmed to about 100 words.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Product Information:
> > > >
> > > > Manufacturer:  Vasque
> > > > Year of purchase: 1997
> > > > Manufacturer URL: http://www.vasque.com
> > > > Product Category: Mid-Weight Backpacker
> > >
> > > ### EDIT: Missing here is the measured weight, the size, and
color.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The uppers exterior
> > >
> > > ### EDIT: The uppers' exterior...
> > >
> > >  consists of 2.4mm Waterproof Smoothout Leather,
> > > > in this case with 3-Bar Knit Nylon lining and a Gore-Tex
> > membrane.
> > > > The insole is `Bimodal 2'. The outsole is by Skywalk. The
> > footbed is
> > > > none other than Vasque's Volume Fit System.
> > >
> > > ### EDIT: I'd drop the "none other..." It reads oddly
> > >
> > >  The collar of these
> > > > boots is very well constructed, having a slightly higher,
well-
> > > > padded design to them.
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Performance:
> > > >
> > > > These boots have served their purpose well for nearly a
decade.
> > They
> > > > were originally purchased (new) in 1997, and the boots
> > themselves
> > > > were made in Italy during 1996. They have been worn very
hard
> > ever
> > > > since. Their purchase was made in Baton Rouge in
anticipation
> > for a
> > > > move to an outdoors facility in Bucksnort, Tennessee. As the
> > camp
> > > > was completely outdoors, the minimum amount of hiking done
per
> > day
> > > > was between 8 and 10 miles. There was no maximum, but 30
mile
> > trips
> > > > were a frequent occurrence.
> > >
> > > ### EDIT Please give km equivalents along with the mileage
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The Sundowners are not very well-ventilated boot. They are
thin
> > > > enough to give some breathability but the construction is
such
> > that
> > > > your
> > >
> > > ### EDIT: "my", not "your"
> > >
> > >  foot is left without as much air as a leather/fabric boot.
The
> > > > thinness of the leather coupled with the lack of ventilation
is
> > > > definitely a con when considering it for wintertime use in a
> > cold
> > > > environment. The boots have very minimal padding on the
uppers –
> > the
> > > > only exception being the collar.
> > > >
> > > The padded collar almost eliminates any chance your
> > >
> > > ### EDIT: "my" for "your"
> > >
> > >  ankle has
> > > > of rolling.
> > > >
> > > > The outsole of these boots is made by Skywalk. They are
> > extremely
> > > > tough, and have lasted through grueling trials for over 1000
> > miles.
> > >
> > > ### EDIT metric equivalent, please.
> > >
> > > > They only now need to be replaced due to the heel area
wearing
> > away
> > > > thanks to overpronation. The Skywalk sole is stiff, and
doesn't
> > > > absorb impacts very well. Lacing the boots up is a breeze,
> > though
> > > > the supplied lace is extremely long – I had to wrap it
around
> > the
> > > > back of the boot on each end of the string once before tying
the
> > > > knot. A shorter lace will solve this problem, but why such a
> > long
> > > > one was put in there in the first place is beyond my
> > understanding.
> > > > The foot bed, while comfortable, isn't as nice as a pair of
> > premium
> > > > insoles such as those made by SuperFeet. There's a tab of
> > leather on
> > > > the back of the boots to pick them up after getting them
dirty,
> > but
> > > > a loop would have made more sense instead. The tab is small
> > enough
> > > > so keeping both of them in your
> > >
> > > ### EDIT your > my
> > >
> > >  hands at the same time is difficult
> > > > to do.
> > > >
> > > > That after 10 years these boots are still usable is truly
> > amazing.
> > > > Good construction is one thing, but to have a boot that
still
> > has
> > > > tread (admittedly not much) left after this many miles and
> > minimal
> > > > physical distress after so much hard use is astounding.
However,
> > > > there are a few problems with the boot. I noticed after 3-4
> > years
> > > > that cracks had started developing in the sewn-on-top
portion of
> > the
> > > > outsole that attaches the main outsole to the part with the
> > grommets
> > > > used for holding your shoelace in place. Specifically, they
> > appeared
> > > > right at the top of the toe box where you'd
> > >
> > > ### EDIT: Maybe "I normally lift my toes...
> > >
> > >  normally lift your toes
> > > > in anticipation of the next step – between the first and
second
> > set
> > > > of D-rings (if you start counting from the toe of the shoe
to
> > the
> > > > ankle). Also, the boots have lost their waterproofness to a
> > degree.
> > > > I believe that the leak is due to the sole taking so much
abuse
> > > > through the years. With any luck, the process of having them
> > > > resoled, as well as multiple waterproofing applications
should
> > > > eliminate the seepage of water into the boot.
> > >
> >
>

OK, I lied. Instead of hiking like I was supposed to, I am sitting
here with a sprained ankle. So I might as well write an OR, right?
HTML may be found here;

http://tinyurl.com/z4rj6

The North Face Terra 40 Pack

Owner Review
May 7, 2006

Tester Information
Name: Raymond Estrella
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Height: 6' 3" (193cm)
Weight: 210 lb (95 kg)
Email address: rayestrella@...
City: Huntington Beach
State: California
Country: USA

Backpacking Background: I have been hiking for over 30 years, all
over the state of California. I have also hiked in Washington,
Minnesota, Nevada, Arizona, and Idaho. I hike year-round, mostly in
the Sierra Nevada, and put 555 miles (888 km) on my boots last
year.  As I start my 4th decade of backpacking I am making the move
to lightweight gear, and smaller packs.

The product

Manufacturer: the North Face, Inc
Web site: www.thenorthface.com
Product: Terra 40
Model number: 16141
Size: One size
Year manufactured: 2004
MSRP: $ 99.00 (US)
Weight listed: 3 lb 3 oz (1.45 kg) Actual weight 3 lb 6 oz  (1.53
kg)
Volume: 2,000 cu in (32.8 L)
Torso length: 17-20 in (43-51 cm)
Color: Grey and Blue
Warranty: (from company web site), "Most The North Face products are
fully warranted to the original owner against defects in materials
and workmanship for the lifetime of the product. If a product ever
fails due to a manufacturing defect, even after extended use, we
will repair the product, without charge, or replace it, at our
discretion."

Product description

The North Face Terra 40 (hereafter called the Terra or pack) is a
blue and grey internal frame pack. The body of the pack is made of
420D "Enduratek" nylon. The top lid and front pocket is made of
1000D "IronFiber". The bottom and side pockets are made of some
extremely tough material they call "1680D Ballistics" nylon. A cord
runs around the top of the pack body and through a cord lock,
allowing the top to be drawn shut.

On each side of the main body is a bellows style pocket. They have a
drawstring and cord lock, that when pulled tight, suck the pocket
flat to the pack. This makes them like wand pockets for skis and
such. When loosened the pocket is wide enough to accept Nalgene
bottles with ease. Two Duraflex connector equipped compression
straps are on either side of the pack body.

On the front of the pack is a large external pocket, that is
accessed by a looping double zipper. Zigzagging across the face of
this pocket is an elastic cord that goes through a cord-lock, and
nine nylon loops. On each side of this pocket is a quintuple loop
daisy chain ending with an ice ax loop. At the top of each daisy
chain is a hook and loop tool holder.

A fixed top lid sits on top. It is accessed by a zipper, which is
covered by a flap of nylon. The lid closes the body of the pack by
the use of two compression straps that run from the top of the daisy
chains up to connectors on the lid. It does not hold very much. I
keep my rain pants, wallet, whistle and light in it. The North Face
logo is embroidered on the front of the lid.

Inside of the pack body is a pleated pocket meant to hold a
hydration bladder. The pleats allow it to sit flat when not using a
bladder. A long black sleeve runs down the center inside against my
back. Opening the hook-and-loop closure reveals a single aluminum
stay. It was easy to take this out and bend it to conform to the
shape of my spine (which is not as twisted as my mind).

The fixed-suspension contoured shoulder straps are padded with a
fairly dense foam. It feels like Ensolite to me. The shoulder straps
have two adjustment straps on them. The ones at the top of the
shoulder adjust the distance the pack body rides away from my body.
The one at the lower end of the shoulder strap pulls the pack down
onto my shoulders changing the balance of weight between hip and
shoulders. A sternum strap crosses the between the shoulder straps.
It is mounted on a sliding connection. Each shoulder strap has an
elastic nylon loop (one of which has the North Face logo on it) and
a D-ring on them also. I keep my knife clipped to one of them.

The hip belt on the Terra has a lot going on. It fairly wide and
filled with the same dense foam as the shoulder straps. It is very
comfortable. It connects at the front with a Duraflex Stealth
Warrior buckle. On each side of the hip belt are a zippered pocket
and a tool loop for carabineers.

The stitched foam back panel is pretty comfortable also. It is
filled with a lesser density open cell foam.

Field Conditions

This pack has been used a lot in the San Jacinto Wilderness areas
(Sate and National). I took it to White Mountain, Mount Langley,
Cleveland National Forest and San Bernardino peak for multi-day
trips. Conditions have ranged from temperatures in the 70's F (24
C), down to 15 F (-9 C). Elevations have ranged from 1,200' to over
14,000' (366 to 4,270 m). It has seen beautiful sunny days, along
with snow, rain and high winds. The average weight carried is around
15 lb (6.8 kg), the highest double that.


Field Use

The company positions this pack as a "Mid-capacity daypack for long
hikes". I bought it to use chiefly as a winter specific day pack.
But have used it for two and three day hikes also.

I really like the suspension on this pack. Since I got it I have
bought several packs that weigh less and/or hold more, but I still
find myself breaking out the Terra. I like the way the pack sits
against my body and the profile it has.

Mainly I carry it in the winter with 12 to 15 lb (5.4 to 6.8 kg) in
it. I keep crampons in the front pocket, and carry a strap to go
around it to affix my snowshoes when it is time to carry them.

On a trip to the Cottonwood Lakes region of the Sierra Nevada to
climb Mount Langley, my brother-in-law (who is an aspiring
ultralighter) wanted to do the three day trip at his lightest ever.
At this time I was still in the 30+ lb (14 kg) range for multi day
hikes, and was carrying a Osprey Aether as my normal pack. I decided
to see how low I could get and used the Terra because I did not need
the volume of the Aether. I got my pack down to 20 lb (9 kg) for
that trip. (Dave was much lower, darn him.) What surprised me was
how nice it wore during the hike. During the summit of Langley I
took a (supposed) short cut that put me into some pretty hairy
climbing. Dave opted to go back and approach the normal way, but
since I was there I decided to stow my trekking poles and climb
around the face. The Terra did not hinder me the way that other
packs have done in the past.

On a trip to set caches in the area near White Mountain I slid a
very full BV 300 Bear Vault into the Terra, than placed the rest of
the gear I needed for the day on top of it and hiked it in. It
handled it fine, although it strained the pack quite a bit, because
of the tight fit.

I did a winter overnighter with it once. As I was only up for one
night I brought enough water to last so as not to have to melt snow.
I had about 30 lb (14 kg) in it for that trip. It handled the weight
with no problem. An elderly gentleman that I walked with for a few
miles liked it so much that he asked me to email him a link to the
Terra when I completed the trip.

The laced elastic cording on the back of the pack is very handy. On
the multi-day trips I will strap my tent under it. On day trips I
stick the bottom of my MSR Lightning snowshoes in it (see report).
Or in inclement weather I will keep my rain gear under it ready for
the hasty donning of some protection. After the rain passes it goes
back to let it drip, keeping the contents inside of the pack dry.

In the winter I keep my ice ax and shovel handle in the loops on the
back. I like the hook and loop keepers on the top. They are easy to
access.

The size and placement of the exterior super-tough side pockets is
perfect for me. Half the time I still use Nalgene bottles, and they
fit great in them. I can get them out, and replace the bottles with
no difficulty. When I do use a hydration bladder the pocket holds
all of my different styles well. It only has a port on my left side
though. I like my tube to come out on my right. Most of my other
packs have both options.

I like the big pocket on the outside of the pack. Since the top lid
pocket is so small, I keep my first aid kit in the front one along
with my crampons in winter. In inclement spring hiking I can stuff
both pieces of my Redledge Elite raingear (see report) in it with a
little room to spare.

At first I did not think I would like the pockets on the hip belt.
But I came to appreciate being able to keep my keys, sun-block, lip
balm and such in one of them. I keep some hard candy (which I give
away more than consume) in the other.

Altogether I like this pack enough to keep it in the gear room. I do
not care for the weight of it. It is quite heavy, especially for the
low volume that it holds. It has been redesigned for the 2006
season, and I see that it is lighter now.

My apologies, I have been busy with work and haven't had much time to do
anything but work.  I've started to edit some of it thought I haven't
finished.  I've been trying to get more details on some of the edit request
for specific details.



Michael



   _____

From: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jamie D
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 1:38 AM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: [BackpackGearTest] ATTN: Michael Kinese - BGT Owner Review Edit



Hi Michael

Following a review of our Owner Review queue at BackpackGearTest.org I
noticed you have not responded to the edit of your Garmin GPSMap 76CS owner
review by Ted on April 21st.  Please refer to message number 70020 at
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/messages>.

Is there something we can assist you with to help you complete your Owner
Review? It would be a pity to disregarded the work you've done so far.

Please let me know how you wish to proceed with this review.

Regards
Jamie DeBenedetto
Edit Administration Officer




To read our reviews, please visit http://www.backpackgeartest.org/




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Received and added to the edit queue.  Thank you.  Sorry to hear about
your ankle.  I hope your a quick healer. :)

jamie d

--- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "rayestrella1"
<rayestrella@...> wrote:
>
> OK, I lied. Instead of hiking like I was supposed to, I am sitting
> here with a sprained ankle. So I might as well write an OR, right?
> HTML may be found here;
>
> http://tinyurl.com/z4rj6
>
> The North Face Terra 40 Pack
>
> Owner Review
> May 7, 2006

No problem Michael.  We all understand having life intrude on the
BGT fun, however, it's really helpful if you keep the lines of
communication open with your Editor or via the list.  That way we
know you are still around and didn't cut and run after the first
edits, which does happen on occasion.

Post when you can but please keep us posted. If I don't see any
activity on an OR after 2 weeks I remove it from the Queue.  You can
alwasy REPOST after be removed so no worries but it just wont be
activily watched by your editor.

Jamie D
Edit Admin Officer

--- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Kinese"
<ratjumper@...> wrote:
>
> My apologies, I have been busy with work and haven't had much time
to do
> anything but work.  I've started to edit some of it thought I
haven't
> finished.  I've been trying to get more details on some of the
edit request
> for specific details.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jamie D
> Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 1:38 AM
> To: undisclosed-recipients:
> Subject: [BackpackGearTest] ATTN: Michael Kinese - BGT Owner
Review Edit
>
>
>
> Hi Michael
>
> Following a review of our Owner Review queue at
BackpackGearTest.org I
> noticed you have not responded to the edit of your Garmin GPSMap
76CS owner
> review by Ted on April 21st.  Please refer to message number 70020
at
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/messages>.
>
> Is there something we can assist you with to help you complete
your Owner
> Review? It would be a pity to disregarded the work you've done so
far.
>
> Please let me know how you wish to proceed with this review.
>
> Regards
> Jamie DeBenedetto
> Edit Administration Officer
>
>
>
>
> To read our reviews, please visit http://www.backpackgeartest.org/
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
>
>
> Survival
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
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>
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ig=tpVS
> jmKA9gZ7rtwWsoE6Bg>  guide
>
> High
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=High&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=Hikin
>
g&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=0FVdi2f
AaOSjMR
> 3PrZNvEQ>
>
> Hiking
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Hiking&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=Hik
>
ing&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=Cgubo
KTRGbOX
> gQq6wUZF9Q>
>
>
> Tester
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Tester&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=Hik
>
ing&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=69PC3
MpIbhOB
> B2LxljfKCA>
>
> Alaska
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Alaska+hiking&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High
>
&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.si
g=vAwEN
> _I6VNjS18WbCWwRxA>  hiking
>
> Alaska
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Alaska+outdoors&w1=Survival+guide&w2=Hi
>
gh&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.
sig=8_S
> HVwWBGT9KwpVbYTqD5Q>  outdoors
>
>
>
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>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Erin,

Nice start here. Pretty typical edits - I've flagged them below.
Please make the appropriate changes and repost it to the list with
REPOST in the subject line. I'll pick it up for another look through
and will get you the info you'll need to post it to its permanent home
at BGT.

Thanks again for the nice work,
Jim
Edit Moderator

--- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, Erin <eiloen@...> wrote:

>  Height: 5' 6" (1.67 Meters)
>  Weight: 210 lb (95.25 Kilograms)

### You can spell out the units or abbreviate them. In this case
you're doing both (lb and Kilograms). Please change to one consistent
style.


>  I currently own an REI Taj3 tent, 2 REI Polar Pod sleeping bags
(for the kids), an MSR WhisperLite stove, a pair of Leki PA Ti-Air
trekking poles, an Exped Downmat 9DLX and a Hennessy Hammock.  My dogs
often go hiking with us as well.

### Don't really need the gear list in your bio.


>
> Girth:  24.5" (0.62 Meters)
>
> Weight: 50 lb (22.68 Kilograms)

### Check the unit usage here.


>
> Girth:  26" (0.66 Meters)
>
> Weight: 55 lb (24.95 Kilograms)

### Units again.

> Girth:  29.5" (0.75 Meters)
>
> Weight: 90 lb (40.82 Kilograms)

### Units again


>           Size
>          Waist Measurement
>          Pannier Size (Length/Height/Depth
>          Pack Volume
>              Small
>          22" - 30"
>          13"/6.5"/4.5"
>          650 cu.in.
>              Medium
>          26" - 34"
>          15"/8.5"/5"
>          1150 cu.in.
>              Large
>          30" – 40"
>          16"/9.75"/5.5"
>          1600 cu.in.
>              X-Large
>          33" – 46"
>          17.5"/11.25"/6"
>          2200 cu.in.
>

### All of these need metric conversions.

>   *Waist measurement refers to "a point about 2/3rds of the way back
from the front to the hind legs" (according to site). If you feel
under your dogs belly, you are looking for the sternum, almost where
the ribcage ends.  The site also has a helpful picture showing how to
measure your dog.

### Convention is to avoid projection by avoiding the use of the
pronoun "you" (your, yours, you're, you'll, etc.). Please rephrase this.

>   The Banzai is the top end of the three current dog pack designs
offered by WolfPacks.  The top part is cordura nylon, the bottom half

### "Cordura" -- it's a registered trademark (of Invista Durable Fabrics)

>pannier .  There are two pockets in each pannier, and one pockt along

### "pannier. There" (extra space before the period)...also "one pocket"


>
>   I chose the wolfpacks design after trying out several other

### "Wolfpacks"

manufacturers products.  Issues with dog packs mainly involve slippage

### "manufacturers' products." -- possessive case


>   Performance:
>   The day I received my first pack, I loaded it with two full
nalgene bottles and went to the park to hop over rocks and logs.  We

### "Nalgene" is a registered trademark and needs to be capitalized

are put into them.  The packs are also fairly water-resistant, unless
your dog jumps in a river or lake while wearing the pack.

### "the dog jumps" - to avoid projection

Fortunately, they are also easy to clean and dry moderately quickly

### "quickly." - be interesting to quantify "moderately quickly"

>   I love these packs.  I have tried others, but these are the ones I
will keep buying (if necessary).  They are comfortable for my dogs as
well as durable and the come in bright orange.  When hiking in the

### "they come"

> would fit him (He is not as tall as a dane, not so stocky as a pit,

### "he" - unless you're suggesting he's the deity

but still a big guy).  However, the panniers are larger than you might

### "than I expected,"

> expect, and I am VERY glad I went with the medium for him.  On the
small packs worn by my pitbull and lab mix you can fit a 32oz nalgene

### "I can fit" and "32 oz/ 1 L"

>bottle in each pannier with room left over for sandwiches.  It would
be very easy to overload your dog.  The other down side is that the

### "It would be very easy to overload the dog" or "my dog" - you
don't know anything about my dog so you're projecting as it's written


>  top of the pack is somewhat limited in use.  Whatever you put in
the top is potentially going to dig into your dog's shoulders/spine, so

### "the dog's shoulders/spine,"

you can only put really flat/soft things in the top (extra spectra

### "I can only"

>   -Extremely Durable (unless your dog eats it!)

### "durable" and "unless my dog"

>   -They come in ORANGE and other colors.  Other packs have maybe 2
color choices.

### "Other packs I am aware of have"


>   Things I don't like:
>   -Price.  $74 is a lot for a dog pack, but it is less than the
Ruffwear Palisades2.  The good part is that the pack will last

### Interesting but smacks of a "shootout" which BGT doesn't do. You
should delete this part of the sentence (from "but it is...").

>   -Gear lashing loops are not D-rings.  You have to thread your
nylon straps through these, they are the flat plastic kind.

### "Nylon straps have to be threaded through these," avoids projection

> pocket.  This is more than compensated for by the pannier capacity,
and most other manufacturers don't offer the top pocket anyway.

### "other manufacturers I know of don't" - unless you have done
exhaustive research and are able to back this up with data, avoid
gross generalizations

>   -the packs are very sensitive to balance, seeming to have a
sensitivity of ounces.  This is not so much a dislike, as the way dog
packs work. You can use small rocks from the trail to fine-tune the
pack balance as you drink from the water bottles in the pack.  When I

### Rephrase without the "you" - since I don't have my dogs carry my
water, this wouldn't fit my usage and is a fine example of projection.

> the gear loop (or even a D ring zip tied to the gear loop) through
which you run your leash.  I think this is an inherent problem with

### "which the leash is run."

dog pack design, and is not specific to the banzai.  It's still a

### "Banzai."

Hi Ray,
Nice review. I've made some edits below. Please correct and repost
using REPOST in the subject line. I'll take another look through it
and we'll see if it's ready to go primetime.

Thanks again,
Jim
Edit Moderator


--- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "rayestrella1"
<rayestrella@...> wrote:

> Owners Review

### "Owner Review"

> Height: 6' 3" (193cm)

### space before unit (" cm")

> Weight listed: 1 lb 12 oz (.68 kg) Weight measured 1 lb 9.5 oz (.72
> kg)

### Check your weights -- it's not likely that if it weighs less in
Imperial measurements that it would weigh more in metric ones

> The High Peaks Pinnacle II Fleece Jacket, (hereafter called the
> Pinnacle or the jacket) is a heavy-weight fleece jacket. It is made

### "heavyweight" is one word

> reinforce the jacket at points of wear. It occurs under the fore-
> arms and the top of the back and shoulders. The same material is on

### "forearms" is one word

>
> An YKK zipper runs up the front of the jacket. It extends to the top

### "A YKK"

> by a double thick nylon shingle. At the bottom of the Pinnacle is an
> elastic drawstring secured by cord-lock on each side. The cord-locks

### "by cord-locks" or "by a cord-lock"


> too. (Oooh, gross.) So I bought the High Peaks Pinnacle II Fleece
> Jacket (hereafter called pinnacle or jacket) and matching Pants,

### "Pinnacle" ... although since you already did the "hereafter
called" thing earlier in the review you might just as well delete it
from here


> At 450 g per yard this is some thick fleece. It has no wind blocking

### Conversion needed here

> next. We had one shot at the summit. They were calling for bad
> weather so we got up at 2:00 am to try to beat it. We made to within

### "2:00 A.M."

> 900 vertical feet (274 m) of the summit when the storm hit the peak
> and was rushing down at us. We stayed ahead (below) it back down to

### "ahead of"

> our camp, where it caught us as we were breaking down. We hoofed it
> down as fast as we could. Even though it was 13 F when we left

### Metric conversion needed


> wasn't freezing, and I honestly told him I was fine. It was still in
> the 20s F (-4 C) at this point. I took it off at the truck and had

### 20s F is really a range from 20 to 29 degrees so the metric
conversion should reflect this range as well

EDIT:  Cat Stove (DIY Gear) - Cory O'Neill

Hi Cory

The luck of the draw is that you get me as Editor again. Such is life ...

Some small edits below for you to fix. A lot better this time - well done.
When you repost, please include the URL for the html version in the Test/OR
folder.

Cheers
Roger Caffin
BGT OR Editor
---------------------------------
> Tools Needed: Can opener, hungry cat (optional),
Comment: a hungry walker?  :-)

> Construction Time: 1 hours
EDIT: don't put the 's' on hour in specifications.

> The pot stand is built from ¼ inch construction fabric.
EDIT: you need to explain what this is: I haven't the faintest idea.

> I have used the stove at altitudes ranging from about 3,500 feet to over 8,000
feet.
EDIT: metric please, rounded off.

> sizes have ranged from 1 to 4 quarts (0.95 to 3.79 liters).
EDIT: round off: '1 to 4 L' would be fine here.

> and then squeeze our eating bowls (2-cup tupperware freezer containers) inside
of the stand.
EDIT: 'inside the stand' - delete 'of' (a hate of mine!)

> place the stove burner inside of the freezer containers.
EDIT: delete 'of'

> and a pot scrubber (inside of a zip-lock bag)
EDIT: delete 'of'

> locating a protected spot (behind a rock, tree, or even tent),
EDIT: 'or even a tent' - with 'a'

> I use match or butane cigarette lighter to ignite the stove.
EDIT: 'I use a match or a butane cigarette  lighter ' with 'a' in two places.
Comment: these days you could leave the 'cigarette' out quite happily.

> Some practice without the windscreen and pot support in > place was necessary
before I was able to ignite the stove
without singeing the hair on the back of my > fingers.
Comment: yeah, I know!

> Using more than a few capfuls of fuel at a time results in too hot of a stove,
EDIT: delete 'of' before 'a stove'

> which causes the fuel trapped in the fiberglass wick to vaporize.  When this
> happens, I hear a "thup, thup" sound.
EDIT: technically not correct. The alcohol HAS to vaporise for it to burn. I
suggest that you should change this to '
which causes the fuel trapped in the fiberglass wick to boil.' as this is what
is happening.

> I have found that if longer cook times are required, I have to wait for the >
stove to cool (perhaps 1 minute), then
pour additional capfuls of fuel into the stove and relight the stove.
Edit: are you sure you have to wait? I find that pouring cold alcohol into a
light aluminium container about 10 seconds
after the flame goes out cools it down quite fast enough.

> Two of these "burns" are usually enough to achieve boil for 3 to 4 cups
EDIT: awkward. Try maybe
'Two of these "burns" are usually enough to boil 3 to 4 cups '

> Snow Melting:  In early June of 2005, my son and I climbed to approximately
8,100 feet on South
EDIT: metric

> degrees Fahrenheit (about -6 and 7.2 degrees Celsius) in the sun.
EDIT: round off, and change thus:
'(about -6 to  +7 C)
I have suggested putting the '+' sign in here just to emphasise the range, but
it is optional.

> Although we were able to set up camp in a small dry swale,
EDIT: many readers won't know what a swale is: you should explain.

> It fires up confidently every time,
EDIT: only humans can be confident. I think you mean 'reliably'

EDIT:  Snow Peak Trek 700 - Jeremy Anderson

Hi Jeremy

A good start. You seem to have covered most of our requirements. I have some
small edits for you to fix, as detailed
below.

The only significant problem is with your saying that the thin walls make for
even heat distribution. They don't: they
make the heat distribution worse. You need to correct this.

When you have done these, could you please REPOST this OR on this channel. At
the same time could you put the HTML
version in the Tests / Owner Reviews folder on BGT please, along with any
pictures you intend to use. We check the HTML
version as well, for various things like a clickable manufacturer's URL and some
details of the layout.

Some of us have an unofficial convention here:
EDIT: you must fix this
Edit: you are advised to seriously consider this
Comment: just that.
However, if you think I have got something wrong or that what I am criticising
is actually a matter of personal style,
feel free to say so. Personal style is accepted, as long as it is reasonably
clear what you mean.

If you are not sure exactly how to get going, we have a Mentor program that was
established to help newbies through the
somewhat confusing process of becoming gear testers. We're also here for veteran
testers who'd like to get some feedback
on their test applications or test reports. Whatever stage you're at we're here
to help. If you'd like a Mentor, please
contact the Mentor Coordinator (jennifer.pope@...) and please include
"Mentor Request" in your subject line.

In some cases when editing a review I find problems with the layout of the text
version. This can happen when an HTML
file is badly converted - possibly by Yahoo. If this seems to be a problem, you
could consider trying one of the free
HTML/text editors such as Note Tab Lite: this one has a good conversion tool
built in. Some people who know nothing
about HTML like NVU, although I don't. Both can be found through Google.

In other cases where there are serious HTML problems, the source of this may be
that you used Word to generate the HTML
file. We have had extremely bad results from Word: in fact it has been
responsible for most of the really bad layout
problems I have ever seen. In addition, if you feed a cleaned-up HTML file
through Word to fix just one small error,
Word will usually completely rewrite the HTML into a mess. If Word is all you
have to create the HTML, please save the
file as 'web page, filtered' rather than as 'web page' or XML. The filtering
does help improve Word's efforts slightly.

When uploading your Owner Review to the indicated folder, please ensure you
select the button marked 'Owner Review'.

If you require assistance with your upload, please ask in our Yahoo support
group, BGTFileUploadHelp @
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BGTFileUploadHelp/

Before you can become a Tester with BGT you must sign the Tester Agreement.
Basically, this is an undertaking to play by
the rules and complete any Test series, or to return the gear if you can't.
Sometimes things happen, and if you let us
know we will understand. The agreement can be found at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/files/1%20BGT-Tester%20Agreement%\
20Docs/>

The signed agreement should be forwarded to Jim hatch. For Jim's address see msg
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/message/67320

If this is your second approved review and you have submitted a Tester Agreement
which has been acknowledged, you are
now eligible to participate in the testing process by applying for tests.
Further details on this may be found at
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/lesson.php?lesson=BecomeTester&page=9

You will also need to join the Yahoo group where the Tests are announced:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/backpackgeartesters/
This is where everything related to Tests and Testing takes place.

Cheers
Roger Caffin
BGT OR Editor
-------------------------------
>  I have had the joy of guiding adventures
> part-time with teens and/or adults over the past several years and
> look forward to many more.
Edit: we are really more interested in your backpacking style and experience.
For instance, you don't mention here
whether you do only day walks, weekenders, long walks or a mix. Such information
is really needed here. If you can fit
that into the 100 word limit while keeping the above sentence in, that's fine.

> Location and Conditions: The cup has been tested multiple times,
> recently in the Ozarks of Arkansas.  The terrain was mainly deciduous
> forests with rocky soil at established camps.  Temperatures ranged
> from 35°F (1.7C) to 75°F (25C) with elevations ranging up to 2320 ft.
> (3735 km).
Comment: for a cup, this is really fairly optional information. No action needed
however.

> Use: The cup was used with a Snow Peak Giga Stove.  I cooked oatmeal,
> eggs, easy mac & cheese, ramen noodles, soup mix, noodle mixes, and
> lots of tea.  The cup also came in very handy serving as a measuring
> cup for the group.
Comment: but this sort of info is *right* for this OR.

> Summary:  The titanium cup heats evenly and smoothly because of its
> rounded corners and thin material.
Edit: sorry, but this sentence is simply wrong. The thinner the metal, the LESS
evenly or smoothly the contents would be
heated. The rounded corners have no bearing on how evenly or smoothly it will
heat. Many housewives like a big heavy
cast iron pot: the thick base does spread and smooth the heat.

> but the lid is titanium as well, so it heats up quickly, making it hot to the
touch after boiling water.
Edit: similar problem as above: any metal will behave just the same with boiling
water.

>  I use a
> bandana on my hand for insulation, applying pressure to the lid and
> have not had a problem.  The large hook is awkward.  It comes in handy
> when trying to keep the lid off the forest floor, but makes the lid
> awkward to store - sticking up above the rest of the cup.
Comment: but this sort of comment is good.

> tea, reheating the last few sips was a breeze. simply hold the cup
> over the flame for a few seconds.
EDIT: no cap after the period. To avoid our problems with 'projection', it would
be best if you made this :
'was a breeze. I simply hold the cup '

> The sheer width of the cup does allow for easy cleaning.  I can get me
EDIT: 'my hand'

Hello Ray,

Edits follow (not many). The bit about the bag as a no-good woman made
me chuckle. Almost worth a blues...

Interesting review. None of my 0 degree bags (well, I have a 5 degree
WM Antelope and a -10 (?) Valandre Shocking Blue, but close enough)
have quite the issue you describe i.e. frost on the bag soaking in
etc. Sounds to me as if, in these settings, the transition point to
freezing is within the bag's shell, which can cause some mayhem, but
it seems worse than usual here.

One thing I was curious about, and would definitely like to see added
to the review, is how easily the bag dries on the trail. Clearly, if
the shell tends to hold the moisture in, this is not a good thing, but
if it allows moisture to quickly escape, much better. What sort of
drying times have you experienced? How many nights can you use the bag
before moisture in the loft cuts the insulative value to the point
where you are no longer comfortable?

Anyhow, Ray, upload to

http://tinyurl.com/j374p

when edited. Looks good!

Ted.

BGT OR Editor


> The outer shell is made of Dimension Polyant, this is how
> Mountainsmith describes it. "The outer shell of the mummy-shaped
> bags utilizes the same tough Dimension Polyant fabric often used in
> high-performance sail lofts. The material fights and conquers all
> the elements. It is wind-resistant, has the highest rating of water-
> repellency wind resistance,

### EDIT: Is this meant to be "...water repellency, wind
resistance..." It doesn't make sense as is, but it is a manufacturer
blurb, so...



>
> My old 0 F bag was synthetic fill. While it was plenty warm (one of
> the most accurate ratings I have yet to see) it was a bit heavy, and
> worse, very bulky. It took up one third of the space in my winter
> pack. And back then that pack was huge!
>
> So I started looking for a new bag. After much positive reviews

### EDIT: "After reading many positive reviews..."

  on
> the fairly new line of bags by Mountainsmith, I decided to take a
> chance on the Cypher, although I was very skeptical that a bag with
> this rating could weigh this little. When it showed up I got a
> bigger surprise. This thing packs down smaller than any bag I owned,
> or have ever owned.

### EDIT: should this be "had ever owned." (?)

  (I was just getting into quality down bags.) I
> had a 40-30 F (4 to -1 C) variable bag that would not fit into the
> Cypher's stuff sack.
>

>
> I loved the Dimension Polyant material. I was extremely worried at
> first that I would tear it. As I mentioned before, I have never felt
> that seemingly delicate of a fabric

### EDIT: "As I mentioned before, I had never felt such a seemingly
delicate fabric on a piece of outdoors gear."

  on a piece of outdoors gear. It
> has proved to be very tough.
>

>
> On my first trip with the Cypher I took it up to San Jacinto, my
> winter testing ground. My second trip with it was above Lee Vining
> in the Sierra's.

### EDIT: Sierras.

  On both trips I used a Sierra Design's Hyperlight
> AST 2 man tent solo. Both times I had condensation issues. That is
> to be expected in the winter, especially with a person as full of
> hot-air as me…
>

>
> I love how small it packs down to, and how little it weighs. It is
> like a woman that my family keeps telling me is no good for me. I
> just can't let it go. I ended up taking it on a hike of the northern
> half of the John Muir Trail in October of 2005as

### EDIT: 2005 as

  we had to be ready
> for any kind of weather. Here are some excerpts from my log
> concerning the Cypher.


>

Hello Jim,

I have made the edits suggested, and reposted to the test file here;

http://tinyurl.com/gov9q

Thanks,

Ray

High Peaks Pinnacle II Fleece Jacket

Owners Review
May 8, 2006

Tester Information
Name: Raymond Estrella
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Height: 6' 3" (193 cm)
Weight: 210 lb (95 kg)
Email address: rayestrella@...
City: Huntington Beach
State: California
Country: USA

Backpacking Background: I have been hiking for over 30 years, all
over the state of California. I have also hiked in Washington,
Minnesota, Nevada, Arizona, and Idaho. I hike year-round, mostly in
the Sierra Nevada, and put 555 miles (894 km) on my boots last
year.  As I start my 4th decade of backpacking I am making the move
to lightweight gear, and smaller packs.

The product

Manufacturer: Campmor
Web site: www.campmor.com
Product: High Peaks Pinnacle II Fleece Jacket
Size: Large
Year manufactured: 2004
MSRP: $90.00 (US)
Weight listed: 1 lb 12 oz (.79 kg) Weight measured 1 lb 9.5 oz (.72
kg)
Color reviewed: Charcoal (Black is also available)
Warranty: (Quoted from web site) "All merchandise in resellable
condition may be returned for a refund within one year of purchase
when accompanied by your receipt. If used and found defective, we
will exchange or repair within one year of the purchase date when
accompanied by your receipt."

Product description

The High Peaks Pinnacle II Fleece Jacket, (hereafter called the
Pinnacle or the jacket) is a heavyweight fleece jacket. It is made
of "450 gm double-sided, non-pill 100% polyester fleece"
and "abrasion-resistant nylon".

The entire coat is made of the fleece. The nylon is used to
reinforce the jacket at points of wear. It occurs under the forearms
and the top of the back and shoulders. The same material is on the
outside of the collar.

A YKK zipper runs up the front of the jacket. It extends to the top
of the collar, which stands up when the zipper is all the way up.
Once the zipper is down a bit the collar lays down as seen in the
picture above. A 1.25 in (31 mm) piece of nylon backed fleece runs
under the zipper acting as both a draft stop, and a snag guard.

On the front of the jacket are three zipper accessed pockets, one on
the right chest and two lower hand-warmer pockets. All are covered
by a double thick nylon shingle. At the bottom of the Pinnacle is an
elastic drawstring secured by a cord-lock on each side. The cord-
locks are attached to the body of the jacket allowing for one-handed
adjustment from either side. The Campmor logo is stitched on the
back of the jacket below the collar.

Inside of the jacket on the left side is another zippered pocket. It
is a small one, big enough for a wallet and keys, or a few snacks.

The sleeves end with a cuff made of doubled fleece. They do not seem
to have any extra elastic in them, but are still in good shape with
no bagging. Under each sleeve is a 14 in (36 cm) zipper or "pit-zip"
running from a few inches (9 cm) below my armpit, to just above my
elbow. These zippers are backed by a piece of fleece for a draft
stop.

All of the zippers with the exception of the inside pocket's have
nylon zipper pulls attached to facilitate their use with gloves on.



Field Conditions

This jacket has been on almost every winter trip I have gone on in
the past two and a half years. It has been on at least eleven trips
that I can remember. I have worn it at elevations ranging from
7,000' to 13,300' (2,134 to 4,054 m). The temperatures seen on these
trips were in the teens to twenties F (-9 to -4 C) as a norm, but
saw it near 0 F (-18 C) on occasions. It has been on my back in
beautiful weather, and full on blizzard conditions. I do most of my
winter hiking in the Sierra Nevada and White mountains, along with
local stuff in the Mount San Jacinto and San Gorgonio areas. But I
also wore it on Mount Shasta last year, where it was 13 F (-11 C)
and storming.

Observations

I bought this because I wanted a heavier fleece garment than the
ones that I owned at the time, as I started mountaineering and was
doing more winter specific backpacking, and I wanted something that
would keep me warm while hiking hard. I carry a down parka or jacket
always, but can not hike in them, I get much too hot. I have a high
metabolism and put off a lot of heat. And I sweat pretty darn well
too. (Oooh, gross.) So I bought the High Peaks Pinnacle II Fleece
Jacket and matching Pants, (see review) to fill this need.

At 450 g (15.9 oz) per yard this is some thick fleece. It has no
wind blocking film in it though, so a strong wind will punch through
it. Which is fine with me. When the wind blows too hard or is just
too frigid, I put a shell on over the jacket. That of course makes
me instantly too warm.

That is where the excellent pit-zips come in. These are long enough
to be very useful for me. And they match up quite well with the
Sierra Designs MX-31 mountaineering shell I use. They vent superbly.
And the zippers track well. They do not snag often, something that
drives me nuts. I have very little patience while climbing a 40
degree slope with a 60 lb (27 kg) pack on, with snow blowing in my
face. Go figure.

I like the major reinforcing on the shoulders and forearms. It adds
weight but is well worth it to me, when carrying heavy winter packs,
to not be trashing my fleece.

I have read statements about how fleece insulates when wet. I always
said to myself, "right, who's going to get their fleece wet in
winter conditions"? And then I got my own example on Shasta in 2005.

We went to climb Mount Shasta with a very tight time frame. We could
only free up four days from the office and my brother-in-law Dave
and I live down in Huntington Beach, the other end of the state from
Shasta. So we drove up in one day and hiked up to Lake Helen the
next. We had one shot at the summit. They were calling for bad
weather so we got up at 2:00 A.M. to try to beat it. We made to
within 900 vertical feet (274 m) of the summit when the storm hit
the peak and was rushing down at us. We stayed ahead of (below) it
back down to our camp, where it caught us as we were breaking down.
We hoofed it down as fast as we could. Even though it was 13 F (-11
C) when we left Helen, I was burning up. It was too cold to just
wear the shell, so I took it off and just wore the Pinnacle Jacket
with the pit-zips open.

While we were in the storm (total white-out) the wind was swirling
around and blasting us with tiny little snow balls, I couldn't call
them flakes. Somewhere around 8,500' (2,590 m) we got below the
clouds. Suddenly there was no wind to speak of, and huge snowflakes
falling on us. I did not bother to put my shell back on just kept on
truckin' for the trailhead. My body heat was melting the snow on the
Pinnacle jacket. It was soaked through. We stopped to talk to a guy
that wanted to know how it went on the mountain and water was
running out of it.  (And out of my goggles too.) Dave asked how I
wasn't freezing, and I honestly told him I was fine. It was still in
the 20s F (-2 to -6 C) at this point. I took it off at the truck and
had to put it in the bed, it was so wet. But it insulated just fine.
Here is a picture of it when we were stopped.

At night I use the jacket (and pants) to help keep my water from
freezing. I wrap my water in the fleece and put the whole works
inside of my pack. It seems to help.

I have been very happy with this jacket. I see myself using for many
seasons to come.

http://tinyurl.com/eh3x8

http://tinyurl.com/eh3x8

Based on Jims edit of my jacket, I made some changes to the pant
review. It may be found here;

http://tinyurl.com/eh3x8

High Peaks Pinnacle II Fleece Pants

Owner Review
May 8, 2006

Tester Information
Name: Raymond Estrella
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Height: 6' 3" (193 cm)
Weight: 210 lb (95 kg)
Email address: rayestrella@...
City: Huntington Beach
State: California
Country: USA

Backpacking Background: I have been hiking for over 30 years, all
over the state of California. I have also hiked in Washington,
Minnesota, Nevada, Arizona, and Idaho. I hike year-round, mostly in
the Sierra Nevada, and put 555 miles (894 km) on my boots last
year.  As I start my 4th decade of backpacking I am making the move
to lightweight gear, and smaller packs.

The product

Manufacturer: Campmor
Web site: www.campmor.com
Product: High Peaks Pinnacle II Fleece Pants
Size: Medium
Year manufactured: 2004
MSRP: $80.00 (US)
Weight listed: 1 lb 8 oz (.68 kg) Actual weight 1 lb 9.9 oz (.73 kg)
Color reviewed: Black
Warranty: (Quoted from web site) "All merchandise in resellable
condition may be returned for a refund within one year of purchase
when accompanied by your receipt. If used and found defective, we
will exchange or repair within one year of the purchase date when
accompanied by your receipt."

Product description

The High Peaks Pinnacle II Fleece Pants, (hereafter called the
Pinnacle or the pants) are heavy-weight fleece pants. It is made
of "450 gm double-sided, non-pill 100% polyester Grizzly fleece"
and "abrasion-resistant nylon".

The entire pants are made of the fleece. The nylon is used to
reinforce the pants at points of wear. It occurs at the seat and
back of the thigh, and over the articulated knees.

The pants have a zippered fly, but no front snap or button. They do
not open at the front. There is a nylon web strap on the waistband
above the fly to tighten the pants. At the back of the waistband is
an area with elastic in it. It makes up about 30% of the diameter of
the waistband. Inside of the waistband is a hang loop and a consumer
tag listing size, materials, "made in Vietnam" and laundering
instructions. (Wash cold, gentle. Tumble dry, no heat. Do not dry
clean.)

A double-ended YKK zipper runs up the entire length of each side of
the legs. A 1.25 in (31 mm) piece of nylon backed fleece runs under
the zipper acting as both a draft stop, and a snag guard. (Snort!)
At the bottom is a flap with a hook and loop closure that goes over
the zipper. At the top is a double-flap hook and loop attachment.
When both closures are opened the zipper can completely separate,
allowing the pants to be put on or taken off without even lifting a
foot off the ground.

The bottom of the leg has a lot of extra loop material on it
allowing the flap to be pulled tight against the ankle to close it
off to wind and snow.

The only pockets on the Pinnacles are the two fleece-lined hand
warmer pockets on the front. There are no closures on these pockets.
I have noticed that things will fall out of them easily.

Field Conditions

These pants have been on almost every winter trip I have gone on in
the past two and a half years. It has been on at least eleven trips
that I can remember. I have worn them at elevations ranging from
7,000' to 13,300' (2,134 to 4,054 m). The temperatures seen on these
trips were in the teens to twenties F (-9 to -4 C) as a norm, but
saw it near 0 F (-18 C) on occasions. I have worn them in beautiful
weather, and full on blizzard conditions. I do   most of my winter
hiking in the Sierra Nevada and White mountains, along with local
stuff in the Mount San Jacinto and San Gorgonio areas. But I also
wore them on Mount Shasta last year, where it was 13 F (-11 C) and
storming.

Observations

I bought these because I wanted a heavier fleece pants than the ones
that I owned at the time, as I started mountaineering and was doing
more winter specific backpacking, and I wanted something that would
keep me warm while hiking hard. I also wanted full zippers on the
side, something my other fleece pants were lacking. I have a high
metabolism and put off a lot of heat. And I sweat pretty darn well
too. (Oooh, gross.) So I bought the High Peaks Pinnacle II Fleece
Pants and matching Jacket, (see review) to fill this need.

At 450 g (15.9 oz) per yard this is some thick fleece. It has no
wind blocking film in it though, so a strong wind will punch through
it. Which is fine with me. When the wind blows too hard or is just
too frigid, I put a shell on over the pants. That of course makes me
instantly too warm.

That is where the side zippers come in. The full length zippers
allow me to put them on, or take them off, over my plastic-double
mountaineering boots. And they match up quite well with the Sierra
Designs MX-31 mountaineering shell-pants I use. They vent superbly.
Unfortunately the zippers snag very easily. I can only get them down
a little bit at a time before the zipper snags and comes to a stop.
It makes unzipping them a two-handed proposition, meaning I have to
stop to do it. It is my only complaint about these pants.

I like the major reinforcing on the knees and seat. It adds weight
but is well worth it to me, when dropping to my knees, or sitting on
a tree or rock not to be trashing my fleece.

And I have always read the statements about how fleece insulates
when wet. I always said to myself, "right, who's going to get their
fleece wet in winter conditions"? And then I got my own example on
Shasta in 2005. (Note: the piece that got soaked is the jacket, the
pants were on, but protected by a shell. This story is shared in the
other review as well.)

We went to climb Mount Shasta with a very tight time frame. We could
only free up four days from the office and my brother-in-law Dave
and I live down in Huntington Beach, the other end of the state from
Shasta. So we drove up in one day and hiked up to Lake Helen the
next. We had one shot at the summit. They were calling for bad
weather so we got up at 2:00 A.M. to try to beat it. We made to
within 900 vertical feet (274 m) of the summit when the storm hit
the peak and was rushing down at us. We stayed ahead (below) it back
down to our camp, where it caught us as we were breaking down. We
hoofed it down as fast as we could. Even though it was 13 F (-11 C)
when we left Helen, I was burning up. It was too cold to just wear
the shell, so I took it off and just wore the Pinnacle Jacket with
the pit-zips open.

While we were in the storm (total white-out) the wind was swirling
around and blasting us with tiny little snow balls, I couldn't call
them flakes. Somewhere around 8,500' (2,590 m) we got below the
clouds. Suddenly there was no wind to speak of, and huge snowflakes
falling on us. I did not bother to put my shell back on just kept on
truckin' for the trailhead. My body heat was melting the snow on the
Pinnacle jacket. It was soaked through. We stopped to talk to a guy
that wanted to know how it went on the mountain and water was
running out of it.  (And out of my goggles too.) Dave asked how I
wasn't freezing, and I honestly told him I was fine. It was still in
the 20s F (-2 to -6 C) at this point. I took it off at the truck and
had to put it in the bed, it was so wet. But it insulated just fine.

At night I use the pants (and jacket) to help keep my water from
freezing. I wrap my water in the fleece and put the whole works
inside of my pack. It seems to help.

Except for the sticky side zipper I have been pretty happy with
these pants. I will most likely keep my eyes open for a possible
replacement with less aggravating side zippers.

Hello Ted,

I made the edits suggested and added some verbage about the drying.

Thank you for your help as always,

Ray

Hi Roger,
Thank you again for your hard work on my OR.  It is posted in the test/OR
folder:
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/test/OWNER%20REVIEWS/Owner%20Review%20-%\
20Cat%20Stove/


Here is the text version.  Have a nice day!

Owner Review DIY Gear - Cat Stove

By Cory O'Neill

May 8, 2006



Biographical Information
Name:  Cory O'Neill
Age:  32
Gender:  Male
Height:  6 ft 1.5 in (1.87 m)
Weight:  205 lb (93.0 kg)
Email address:  cory.oneill@...
City, State, Country:  Redmond, Oregon, USA



Backpacking Background
        In high school I was an adventure leader in the Sierras.  I also spent
time each summer traveling large sections of the PCT in Oregon and California.  
In college, I spent several weeks each year on the trail with my wife.  The
birth of my son in 2001 challenged me to lighten up, dramatically.  Since then,
our family has logged three to four trips per summer, varying in length from 2
to 8 nights, in the wildernesses of Washington, Oregon and California.  As my
kids grow, I continue to search for the lightest possible family backpacking
gear and techniques.



Product Information
Manufacturer:   Homemade using instructions provided from Sargent Rock 
(http://hikinghq.net/cat/cat_stove_pf.html)
Year of manufacture:  2003
Measured weight: Stove alone: 1.3 oz., with windscreen, pot support and base:
2.6 oz. (37 g, 74 g)
Product description:  Ultralight compact denatured alcohol backpacking stove
Cost: $4.79 (Wal-mart and my garage) plus $4.99 for 1 quart of denatured alcohol
Tools Needed: Can opener, hungry cat (optional), utility knife, church key (beer
bottle opener with pointed end for puncturing top of cans), scissors, hole
punch, and wire cutters
Construction Time: 1 hour





    Stove burner, stand, base and windscreen
Stove assembled



                     Close-up of stove burner



Similar Products Used
MSR Whisperlite International, Coleman Featherlite 400



Product Description
         The Cat Stove is constructed from two aluminum cat food cans and a wad
of fiberglass insulation. Cat food cans use a slightly thicker aluminum than pop
cans, but are still thin enough to puncture with regular household tools.  The
pot stand is built from ¼ inch construction fabric.  Construction fabric is a
woven grid of wire, often used to cover ventilation holes in the eaves of a
house.  The windscreen and base are constructed from aluminum oven liners.  The
Cat Stove is one of many variations of the homemade denatured alcohol stove.

         The stove burner has a diameter of 3.5 inches (9 cm) and is 1.5 inches
(4 cm) deep.  The pot stand measures 5.5 inches (14 cm) across (diagonal) and 3
inches (7.5 cm) high, providing 1.5 inches (4 cm)  of clearance between the top
of the burner and the base of the pot.  The windscreen has a diameter of 6.25
inches (16 cm) and stands 3.5 inches (9 cm) high.  The base of the windscreen,
5.5 inches (14 cm) in diameter, is cut to slightly less than the inside diameter
of the cooking pot.



Construction Review
         The instructions provided by Sargent Rock (see link above) were more
than adequate to construct the stove.  Clear descriptions of every step were
provided, as well as pictures.  Cost estimates for the supplies were somewhat
low.

             I had no problem locating any of the construction materials at my
local Wal-mart except for the construction fabric and insulation.  I picked up
some insulation from a scrap construction pile while on a jog, and found some
fabric in my garage.  Purchasing a roll of fabric from a hardware store would
cost about $6.

             My construction site was the bench in my garage.  It took less than
an hour to build the stove, using a church key, paper hole punch, scissors, pen
and utility knife.  I followed the instructions exactly, with these exceptions: 
I did not construct the simmer ring and top (I don't ever simmer...just boil),
and I decided to fold the lip of the windscreen back on itself to lock it into
place instead of using a paper clip.

         I constructed my cat stove with my intended cooking pot in mind.  My
current pot has an inside diameter of 5.75 inches (14.5 cm) and a height of 4
inches (10 cm).  As such, I cut the diameter of the windscreen base to a
diameter 1/4 inch (.5 cm) less than the inner diameter of my pot.  I also cut
the height of the windscreen to 1/2 inch (1.25 cm)  less than the inside height
of my pot.  This allows me to place the windscreen unfolded inside of the pot,
like a liner, yet provides a 1/2 inch overlap above the base of the pot when the
pot is sitting on the pot stand.  Also, the windscreen diameter allows a
necessary gap of approximately 1/4 inch (.5 cm) between the windscreen and pot
side when the stove is fully assembled.



Field Use
         I have had the opportunity to use the Cat Stove on many one to seven day
trips over the last three summers.   I have used the stove at altitudes ranging
from about 3,500 feet (1,050 m) to over 8,000 feet (2,450 m).  I have used the
stove to boil water with starting temperatures ranging from freezing (snow) to
swim-able.   Pot sizes have ranged from 1 to 4 quarts (1 to 4 liters).  The
weather has varied from windy and snowing to hot and dry.

         Packing: When packing the stove, I place the base of the windscreen in
the pot, then slide the windscreen into the pot so that it expands all the way
to the side of the pot.  I then drop in the pot stand, and then squeeze our
eating bowls (2-cup tupperware freezer containers) inside the stand.  I then
place the stove burner inside the freezer containers.  This leaves me enough
room to place matches and a pot scrubber (inside a zip-lock bag) on top of the
burner before securing the top of the pot over the stove.  I then place the
packed pot/stove inside my backpack.

         Setup: Setting the stove up is not much different than setting up the
standard backpacking stove, with the exception that additional thought needs to
be given to finding a location that is wind-free.  After locating a protected
spot (behind a rock, tree, or even a tent), the windscreen base is placed on the
ground.  The stove and pot support are then placed on this base, and the
windscreen is then wrapped around the pot support.

         Ignition: Two capfuls of a "typical" plastic Coke bottle cap are enough
to provide 10 to 12 minutes of burn time.  After pouring the capfuls of
denatured alcohol directly in the middle of the stove, I use a match or a butane
lighter to ignite the stove.  Some practice without the windscreen and pot
support in place was necessary before I was able to ignite the stove without
singeing the hair on the back of my fingers.  After ignition, the pot is placed
on the stand, and cooking begins.

         Using more than a few capfuls of fuel at a time results in too hot a
stove, which causes the fuel trapped in the fiberglass wick to boil.  When this
happens, I hear a "thup, thup" sound.  Burn time is significantly reduced.  As
such, I have found that if longer cook times are required, I have to wait for
the stove to cool (perhaps 10 seconds), then pour additional capfuls of fuel
into the stove and relight the stove.  Two of these "burns" are usually enough
to boil 3 to 4 cups (.75 to 1 L) of water during July or August.

         Cooking/Heating:  My typical routine for backcountry cuisine includes
placing a pot of water on the stove, boiling the water, pouring in a dehydrated
meal, and letting the pot sit for 20 minutes to rehydrate the meal.  Sometimes,
an additional "burn", or re-ignition and re-boiling of the meal, is necessary to
achieve a fully rehydrated meal.  While the pot is boiling or sitting, I will
often do other camp activities, and occasionally check the meal's progress.  I
have found that the Cat Stove is ideal for this style of cooking.   The stove
generates more than enough heat to effectively bring even larger quantities of
cold mountain water (or even snow!) to a rolling boil, and additional cooking
can be achieved and controlled by limiting the amount of fuel added to the
stove.  My average fuel consumption is about 1.5 ounces (0.04 liters), or 3
capfuls, per day per person from July to October.

          Snow Melting:  In early June of 2005, my son and I climbed to
approximately 8,100 feet (2,500 m)on South Sister (Oregon) for an overnight. 
Temperatures ranged from 21 degrees Fahrenheit at night to about 45 degrees
Fahrenheit (about -6 and +7 degrees Celsius) in the sun.  We had a mix of snow,
hail and sunshine throughout both days.  Although we were able to set up camp on
dry ground, we found no running water, and were forced to melt snow for drinking
and cooking.  I had considered this before leaving, and had packed a 12 fluid
ounce (0.35 liter) Gatorade bottle with fuel for the trip.  Melting the snow was
a longer process, partly exacerbated by my small (2 quart) pot.  Nonetheless, we
were able to provide about 7 quarts of water (6.6 liters) over the two days, and
used only 8.5 ounces (0.25 liters) of fuel.

         Conclusions: I am extremely satisfied with the Cat Stove.  It has
completely replaced my MSR on all non-winter trips.  It fires up reliably every
time, is compact and lightweight, and weighs almost a pound (0.45 kg)
less--including stove and fuel container--than my MSR with the pump and aluminum
fuel bottle.  It fits nicely inside of my cooking pot, and is very easy to
assemble.  Although the stove heats water slower than my MSR and seems to use a
bit more fuel, I have found these faults negligible, and will continue to use
the Cat Stove for all of my three-season adventures.



Up-Side
             Easy and cheap to build
             Lightweight
             Compact



Down-Side
           Boils more slowly than white gas stoves
             Melts snow very slowly
             Doesn't look as cool or expensive as the "other" stoves
             Denatured alcohol is more expensive than white gas






-----Original Message-----
From: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Roger Caffin
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 1:39 AM
To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BackpackGearTest] EDIT: Cat Stove (DIY Gear) - Cory O'Neill

EDIT:  Cat Stove (DIY Gear) - Cory O'Neill

Hi Cory

The luck of the draw is that you get me as Editor again. Such is life ...

Some small edits below for you to fix. A lot better this time - well done.
When you repost, please include the URL for the html version in the Test/OR
folder.

Cheers
Roger Caffin
BGT OR Editor
---------------------------------
> Tools Needed: Can opener, hungry cat (optional),
Comment: a hungry walker?  :-)

> Construction Time: 1 hours
EDIT: don't put the 's' on hour in specifications.

> The pot stand is built from ¼ inch construction fabric.
EDIT: you need to explain what this is: I haven't the faintest idea.

> I have used the stove at altitudes ranging from about 3,500 feet to over 8,000
feet.
EDIT: metric please, rounded off.

> sizes have ranged from 1 to 4 quarts (0.95 to 3.79 liters).
EDIT: round off: '1 to 4 L' would be fine here.

> and then squeeze our eating bowls (2-cup tupperware freezer containers) inside
of the stand.
EDIT: 'inside the stand' - delete 'of' (a hate of mine!)

> place the stove burner inside of the freezer containers.
EDIT: delete 'of'

> and a pot scrubber (inside of a zip-lock bag)
EDIT: delete 'of'

> locating a protected spot (behind a rock, tree, or even tent),
EDIT: 'or even a tent' - with 'a'

> I use match or butane cigarette lighter to ignite the stove.
EDIT: 'I use a match or a butane cigarette  lighter ' with 'a' in two places.
Comment: these days you could leave the 'cigarette' out quite happily.

> Some practice without the windscreen and pot support in > place was
> necessary before I was able to ignite the stove
without singeing the hair on the back of my > fingers.
Comment: yeah, I know!

> Using more than a few capfuls of fuel at a time results in too hot of
> a stove,
EDIT: delete 'of' before 'a stove'

> which causes the fuel trapped in the fiberglass wick to vaporize.
> When this happens, I hear a "thup, thup" sound.
EDIT: technically not correct. The alcohol HAS to vaporise for it to burn. I
suggest that you should change this to '
which causes the fuel trapped in the fiberglass wick to boil.' as this is what
is happening.

> I have found that if longer cook times are required, I have to wait
> for the > stove to cool (perhaps 1 minute), then
pour additional capfuls of fuel into the stove and relight the stove.
Edit: are you sure you have to wait? I find that pouring cold alcohol into a
light aluminium container about 10 seconds after the flame goes out cools it
down quite fast enough.

> Two of these "burns" are usually enough to achieve boil for 3 to 4
> cups
EDIT: awkward. Try maybe
'Two of these "burns" are usually enough to boil 3 to 4 cups '

> Snow Melting:  In early June of 2005, my son and I climbed to
> approximately 8,100 feet on South
EDIT: metric

> degrees Fahrenheit (about -6 and 7.2 degrees Celsius) in the sun.
EDIT: round off, and change thus:
'(about -6 to  +7 C)
I have suggested putting the '+' sign in here just to emphasise the range, but
it is optional.

> Although we were able to set up camp in a small dry swale,
EDIT: many readers won't know what a swale is: you should explain.

> It fires up confidently every time,
EDIT: only humans can be confident. I think you mean 'reliably'




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Links

I tried your link, and I'm getting a SERVER NOT FOUND error.

SteveM


On May 8, 2006, at 7:50 AM, Cory O'Neill wrote:

>
>  Owner Review DIY Gear - Cat Stove
>
>  By Cory O'Neill
>
>  May 8, 2006
>
>
>
> <snip>
>
>  Product Information
>  Manufacturer:   Homemade using instructions provided from Sargent
> Rock  (http://hikinghq.net/cat/cat_stove_pf.html)
>

In the link, the 'd' is missing in pdf.

Leesa

On 5/8/06, Steven H. Miller <metaphorce@...> wrote:
>
> I tried your link, and I'm getting a SERVER NOT FOUND error.
>
> SteveM
>
>
> On May 8, 2006, at 7:50 AM, Cory O'Neill wrote:
>
> >
> >  Owner Review DIY Gear - Cat Stove
> >
> >  By Cory O'Neill
> >
> >  May 8, 2006
> >
> >
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >  Product Information
> >  Manufacturer:   Homemade using instructions provided from Sargent
> > Rock 
(http://hikinghq.net/cat/cat_stove_pf.html)<http://hikinghq.net/cat/cat_stove_pf\
.html%29>
> >
>
>
>  To read our reviews, please visit http://www.backpackgeartest.org/
>
>
>
>  SPONSORED LINKS
>   Survival
guide<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Survival+guide&w1=Survival+guide&w2=Hi\
gh&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=tpVSjmK\
A9gZ7rtwWsoE6Bg>
>
High<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=Hikin\
g&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=0FVdi2fAaOSjMR3PrZ\
NvEQ>
>
Hiking<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Hiking&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=H\
iking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=CguboKTRGbOXgQ\
q6wUZF9Q>
>
Tester<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tester&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=H\
iking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=69PC3MpIbhOBB2\
LxljfKCA>  Alaska
>
hiking<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Alaska+hiking&w1=Survival+guide&w2=Hi\
gh&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=vAwEN_I\
6VNjS18WbCWwRxA>  Alaska
>
outdoors<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Alaska+outdoors&w1=Survival+guide&w\
2=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=8_S\
HVwWBGT9KwpVbYTqD5Q>
>  ------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>    -  Visit your group
"BackpackGearTest<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest>"
>    on the web.
>
>    -  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>    
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>    Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
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>  ------------------------------
>



--
This land is your land, this land is my land...
Woody Guthrie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't think so - I clicked on the link below, and it took me properly to

http://hikinghq.net/cat/cat_stove_pf.html


Leesa J wrote:

>In the link, the 'd' is missing in pdf.
>
>Leesa
>
>On 5/8/06, Steven H. Miller <metaphorce@...> wrote:
>
>
>>I tried your link, and I'm getting a SERVER NOT FOUND error.
>>
>>SteveM
>>
>>
>>On May 8, 2006, at 7:50 AM, Cory O'Neill wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Owner Review DIY Gear - Cat Stove
>>>
>>> By Cory O'Neill
>>>
>>> May 8, 2006
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>> Product Information
>>> Manufacturer:   Homemade using instructions provided from Sargent
>>>Rock 
(http://hikinghq.net/cat/cat_stove_pf.html)<http://hikinghq.net/cat/cat_stove_pf\
.html%29>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> To read our reviews, please visit http://www.backpackgeartest.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> SPONSORED LINKS
>>  Survival
guide<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Survival+guide&w1=Survival+guide&w2=Hi\
gh&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=tpVSjmK\
A9gZ7rtwWsoE6Bg>
>>High<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=Hik\
ing&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=0FVdi2fAaOSjMR3P\
rZNvEQ>
>>Hiking<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Hiking&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3\
=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=CguboKTRGbOX\
gQq6wUZF9Q>
>>Tester<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tester&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3\
=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=69PC3MpIbhOB\
B2LxljfKCA>  Alaska
>>hiking<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Alaska+hiking&w1=Survival+guide&w2=\
High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=vAwEN\
_I6VNjS18WbCWwRxA>  Alaska
>>outdoors<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Alaska+outdoors&w1=Survival+guide\
&w2=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=8\
_SHVwWBGT9KwpVbYTqD5Q>
>> ------------------------------
>>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>>
>>   -  Visit your group
"BackpackGearTest<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest>"
>>   on the web.
>>
>>   -  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>   
BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoog\
roups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>>
>>   -  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>>   Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>This land is your land, this land is my land...
>Woody Guthrie
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>To read our reviews, please visit http://www.backpackgeartest.org/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net


   ----------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 05/05/2006


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yep, same thing here.  I did it from my OR posted in the test/OR folder,
not my outlook email, and it works fine.

Cory

________________________________

From: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Tweedly
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:16 AM
To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] REPOST: Cat Stove (DIY Gear) - Cory
O'Neill


I don't think so - I clicked on the link below, and it took me properly
to

http://hikinghq.net/cat/cat_stove_pf.html


Leesa J wrote:

>In the link, the 'd' is missing in pdf.
>
>Leesa
>
>On 5/8/06, Steven H. Miller <metaphorce@...> wrote:
>
>
>>I tried your link, and I'm getting a SERVER NOT FOUND error.
>>
>>SteveM
>>
>>
>>On May 8, 2006, at 7:50 AM, Cory O'Neill wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Owner Review DIY Gear - Cat Stove
>>>
>>> By Cory O'Neill
>>>
>>> May 8, 2006
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>> Product Information
>>> Manufacturer:   Homemade using instructions provided from Sargent
>>>Rock
(http://hikinghq.net/cat/cat_stove_pf.html)<http://hikinghq.net/cat/cat_
stove_pf.html%29>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> To read our reviews, please visit http://www.backpackgeartest.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> SPONSORED LINKS
>>  Survival
guide<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Survival+guide&w1=Survival+gui
de&w2=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s
=94&.sig=tpVSjmKA9gZ7rtwWsoE6Bg>
>>High<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High&w1=Survival+guide&w2=Hig
h&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=
0FVdi2fAaOSjMR3PrZNvEQ>
>>Hiking<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Hiking&w1=Survival+guide&w2
=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.
sig=CguboKTRGbOXgQq6wUZF9Q>
>>Tester<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tester&w1=Survival+guide&w2
=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.
sig=69PC3MpIbhOBB2LxljfKCA>  Alaska
>>hiking<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Alaska+hiking&w1=Survival+g
uide&w2=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6
&s=94&.sig=vAwEN_I6VNjS18WbCWwRxA>  Alaska
>>outdoors<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Alaska+outdoors&w1=Surviv
al+guide&w2=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors
&c=6&s=94&.sig=8_SHVwWBGT9KwpVbYTqD5Q>
>> ------------------------------
>>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>>
>>   -  Visit your group
"BackpackGearTest<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest>"
>>   on the web.
>>
>>   -  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>
BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BackpackGearTest-unsubscrib
e@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>>
>>   -  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>>   Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>This land is your land, this land is my land...
>Woody Guthrie
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>To read our reviews, please visit http://www.backpackgeartest.org/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net


   ----------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date:
05/05/2006


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



To read our reviews, please visit http://www.backpackgeartest.org/




SPONSORED LINKS
Survival guide
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Survival+guide&w1=Survival+guide&w2
=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.
sig=tpVSjmKA9gZ7rtwWsoE6Bg>   High
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=H
iking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=0FVdi2
fAaOSjMR3PrZNvEQ>   Hiking
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Hiking&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3
=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=Cgub
oKTRGbOXgQq6wUZF9Q>
Tester
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tester&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3
=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=69PC
3MpIbhOBB2LxljfKCA>   Alaska hiking
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Alaska+hiking&w1=Survival+guide&w2=
High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.s
ig=vAwEN_I6VNjS18WbCWwRxA>   Alaska outdoors
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Alaska+outdoors&w1=Survival+guide&w
2=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&
.sig=8_SHVwWBGT9KwpVbYTqD5Q>

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________________________________




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The link as given in Alex's note does indeed work.  But when I tried
the link in the reposting of the OR, it didn't work.

SteveM


On May 8, 2006, at 11:15 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

>  I don't think so - I clicked on the link below, and it took me
> properly to
>
> http://hikinghq.net/cat/cat_stove_pf.html
>
>
>  Leesa J wrote:
>
>  >In the link, the 'd' is missing in pdf.
>  >
>  >Leesa
>  >
>  >On 5/8/06, Steven H. Miller <metaphorce@...> wrote:
>  > 
>  >
>  >>I tried your link, and I'm getting a SERVER NOT FOUND error.
>  >>
>  >>SteveM
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>On May 8, 2006, at 7:50 AM, Cory O'Neill wrote:
>  >>
>  >>   
>  >>
>  >>> Owner Review DIY Gear - Cat Stove
>  >>>
>  >>> By Cory O'Neill
>  >>>
>  >>> May 8, 2006
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>><snip>
>  >>>
>  >>> Product Information
>  >>> Manufacturer:   Homemade using instructions provided from Sargent
>  >>>Rock 
> (http://hikinghq.net/cat/cat_stove_pf.html)<http://hikinghq.net/cat/
> cat_stove_pf.html%29>
>  >>>
>  >>>     
>  >>>
>  >> To read our reviews, please visit http://www.backpackgeartest.org/
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> SPONSORED LINKS
>  >>  Survival
> guide<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Survival+guide&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=
> Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=tpVSjmKA9gZ7rtwWsoE6Bg>
>
> >>High<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=High&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hik
> ing&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=0FVdi2fAaOSjMR3PrZNvEQ>
>
> >>Hiking<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Hiking&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+h
> iking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=CguboKTRGbOXgQq6wUZF9Q>
>
> >>Tester<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Tester&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+h
> iking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=69PC3MpIbhOBB2LxljfKCA>  Alaska
>
> >>hiking<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Alaska+hiking&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=A
> laska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=vAwEN_I6VNjS18WbCWwRxA> 
> Alaska
>
> >>outdoors<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Alaska+outdoors&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5
> =Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=8_SHVwWBGT9KwpVbYTqD5Q>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Eric,
Sorry for the delay but I hadn't realized it was posted & the queue
report was somewhat ambiguous (what Jamie says is a male/female
miscommunication <grin>).

At any rate, I've made a few edits based on your HTML version. You can
find them below. Also, if you check my previous edit (msg# 69721), I
asked you to add back in the stuff you deleted about your day hiking
experiences with the vest because as I pointed out, a single overnight
doesn't give you the kind of experience with durability we're looking
for in a review. With the added day hiking info & your experiences
over the last month or so (please update your review with those), I
expect you should have enough "miles" on the vest to make a
comprehensive review for BGT.

Again, sorry for the mix up. Once you've made the changes if you would
repost it here with REPOST in the subject I'll take another (and
hopefully, last) look at it.

Thanks again,
Jim
Edit Moderator


EDITS FOLLOW:

>the mirror. I'm not an expert on stitching, but according to my
Mother it is sewn very well. The one thing that irked me when I picked
up the jacket and while reading the asterisked

#### "mother"

>full MSRP, I would have thought twice about buying it. It should be
interesting to see how well it holds up throughout the winter months.

#### That's what we'd like to know. How'd it hold up?

>strange after coming out of the washing machine, but after the
kneading the down back into it's original and putting it into the
dryer, it took shape again and I'm happy to report the

#### "its" is the possessive form, and I suspect you mean something
like "original position" or "original shape" or something like that
besides just "original"

>Winding Trails Recreational Area & Surrounding Areas

#### No external links except your own personal pages & the
manufacturer's home page.




--- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "andv4ranaut"
<andv4ranaut@...> wrote:
>
> Here is my corrected HTML document, which was the only thing hindering
> me from approval.
>
> http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/test/TESTS/WM%20Flight%20Vest/
>
> Hopefully that should do it.
>
> Thanks,
> Erik
>

Hello Ben,

Here's your edit. This is an interesting first OR, and I don't have
any dramatic edits for you--you have done a good job. One point not
covered below that left me curious was how smoothly the combined zips
operate, should you need to leave the bag at night (or on getting up
in the morning, for that matter). Also, you should perhaps emphasize
(assuming that I have this correct) that this will work only with
full-zip bags. Many lightweight bags have only 2/3 zips.

Since the number of edits is relatively small, after making them
please place your HTML version in the test folder at

http://tinyurl.com/7p4t6

and notify me on this list when you have done so. I'll review the
appearance, and check the text again, after which you should be OK to
upload.

Best,

Ted

BGT OR Editor


>
> Sweetie Pie Sleeping Bag Doubler

### EDIT: Should read

Owner Review  Sweetie Pie Sleeping Bag Doubler
Date: April 29, 2006
>
> Reviewer Information:
>
> Name: 	                Ben Rakestraw
> Age:                    24
> Gender:                 Male
> Height: 	 5' 9" (1.75 m)
> Weight: 	        135 lb (61 kg)
> Email Address:         snowfiend131@...
> City, State, Country: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
> Date: 	 04/29/2006

Remove date from here as it is now in the heading

>
> Backpacking Background:
>
> After a couple of years of day hiking and car camping, I began
> backpacking just over one year ago.  I immediately valued the
> concept of lightweight backpacking, and attempt to keep my gear as
> light as possible, but within reason.  I enjoy being comfortable
> while I hike and camp.  My pack weight for an overnight trip is
> around 20 lb (9 kg), including food and water.  From spring to fall,
> I go on many overnight trips in western Pennsylvania, a few multi-
> night trips in the surrounding area, and one longer trip in one of
> the National Parks.  My hiking companions include my girlfriend and
> dog.
>
> Product Information:
>
> Manufacturer:  	        Functional Design
> URL:  		 http://www.functionaldesign.net
> Listed Weight:   12 oz (340 g)
> Actual Weight:   18.7 oz (530 g)
> Length: 	        56 in (142 cm)
> Width: 	 49 in (124 cm)
> Color: 	 Black
> MSRP: 	 $79.00

### EDIT: MSRP $79 US

>
> Temperature Rating: 40° F (4° C)
> Zipper: 	 #8 YKK
> Insulation:  Polarguard 3D
>

>
> The Doubler is insulated with Polarguard 3D and comes in two
> weights:  Summer (40° F (4° C), 12 oz (350 g), as tested) and Three
> Season (10° F (-12° C), 25 oz (690 g), not tested).  The fabric of
> the Doubler is 50 denier Ripstop Nylon.

### EDIT: ripstop nylon.  [not proprietary, so this isn't treated as a
proper noun]


> Product Review:
>
> I have used the Sweetie Pie Bag Doubler on many trips over the past
> year, in overnight temps ranging from 32° – 75° F (0° - 24° C).

### EDIT: A little more information here on weather conditions,
elevations and perhaps locations/terrains would be good.


The
> Doubler performs exactly as intended; it allows a couple to sleep
> together comfortably in one sleeping bag.  It is well made and seems
> durable enough for many years of use.
>
> Much of the Doubler's performance (room to move, warmth, ease of
> packing, zipper performance, etc) is dependant on the sleeping bag
> it is zipped into.  I have used the Doubler in two different
> sleeping bags and will give my perspective based on my use of the
> Doubler.

### EDIT: perhaps simply "give a perspective based on my use."

   I should note that I do not always use the Doubler in the
> way the manufacture

### EDIT: manufacturer

  seems to intend.  The Manufacture

### EDIT: Manufacturer


  implies that
> the Doubler will be the "top" of the two person sleeping bag.
> However, this seems silly when the Doubler is paired with a high
> quality down bag, as the warm down is useless when compressed
> underneath you.

### EDIT: "underneath me."  [we try to avoid third-person]

   When the weather is cool or cold, I arrange the
> down bag to be on top, while on a warm night, I will arrange the
> Doubler to be on top.
>

>
> When using the Doubler as the top of the sleeping bag, the
> description of the Doubler being "summer weight" is accurate.  The
> warmth of the Doubler is adequate for cool nights, and the 40° F (4°
> C) rating is similar to temperature ratings on other mid-quality
> sleeping bags (meaning it is optimistic by 10 degrees F or so).

### EDIT: I don't disagree with you on the issue of overly optimistic
ratings, but there are certainly bags out there that are accurately
rated, so this is a bit sweeping. Better:

"The warmth of the Doubler is adequate for cool nights, though the 40°
F (4°
> C) rating is optimistic by 10 degrees F [give the centigrade
equivalent, 6 C] or so.


>
> The Doubler does not come with its own stuff sack, with the intent
> of leaving it zipped to your sleeping bag at all times and stuffing
> it in the sleeping bag's stuff sack.

### EDIT: is this conjecture, or does the manufacturer indeed state
that this is the way the product should be used? I would prefer
wording along the lines of:

"The Doubler does not come with its own stuff sack, and it is
convenient to leave it in the sleeping bag at all times, using the
sleeping bag's stuff sack for both bag and doubler."

which avoids "your." If this is manufacturer-suggested, you can alter
the wording to reflect this. This is a point to which attention should
be drawn, as certainly some sleeping bag sacks don't have room for
anything but the bag itself.

   With a very compressible down
> bag, the Doubler and sleeping bag just barely fit in the stuff
> sack.  Stuffing the Doubler and a synthetic material sleeping bag
> into the same stuff sack could be more challenging.  Leaving the
> Doubler zipped to the sleeping bag at all times is very convenient.
>
> The zipper on the Doubler occasionally snags on the fabric, but not
> enough to be an annoyance.  The fabric on the Doubler seems durable
> enough, but I haven't abused it.  I also haven't gotten the fabric
> wet enough to test the limits of its water repellency, but it seems
> to hold up to a few drips of condensation very well.
>