anyone hear whether the upcoming lightweight (8oz for stove and pump, 12oz for
all accessories) 2002 model MSR simmerlite is a multifuel stove like the
dragonfly and whisperlite international or just a white gas burner?

__________________________________
www.edsamail.com

Anyone have experience with this product?

http://www.integraldesigns.com/tarps-frame.htm

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com

I read a glowing review of it in Backpacker Magazine (or their
website, fogot which) and then corresponded with an outdoor outfitter
in Seattle and, if memory serves, IG directly a few times. I decided
not to buy it because of its cost as compared to the cheaper
Silshelter. But if money is no object, you might check it out. I wish
I still had IG's email addy or I would send it along to you. Very
nice people. You could look up the outdoor shops in Seattle and talk
to them. The Silshelter is not cheap, either, but a shop in Durango
had it when I needed it after my tent sprang a leak. Nothing like
impulse purchases. I am glad I have it, but it is definitely a ONE
person shelter, not two plus dog!  Marsanne


--- In BackpackGearTest@y..., Rob <dekkerd@r...> wrote:
> Anyone have experience with this product?
>
> http://www.integraldesigns.com/tarps-frame.htm
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!
Messenger
> http://im.yahoo.com

I tried viewing the following report and found gibberish.
Anybody else have the same problem?

df

------------

Subject: New file uploaded to BackpackGearTest


Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BackpackGearTest
group.

   File        : /Sleep Gear/WM Ultralight/WM Ultra review.rtf
   Uploaded by : richard.dreher@...
   Description : Owner Review--W.M. Ultralight

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/files/Sleep%20Gear/WM%20Ultraligh\
t/WM%20Ultra%20review.rtf

-----Original Message-----
From: David Foote [mailto:dfoote@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:27 AM
To: gear test
Subject: [BackpackGearTest] WM Ultralight Review

I tried viewing the following report and found gibberish.
Anybody else have the same problem?

df

------------

Subject: New file uploaded to BackpackGearTest


Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BackpackGearTest
group.

  File        : /Sleep Gear/WM Ultralight/WM Ultra review.rtf
  Uploaded by : richard.dreher@...
  Description : Owner Review--W.M. Ultralight

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/files/Sleep%20Gear/WM%20Ultralight/WM%20Ultra%20review.rtf






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> I tried viewing the following report and found gibberish.
> Anybody else have the same problem?
>
> df

>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/files/Sleep%20Gear/WM%20Ultraligh\
t/WM%20Ultra%20review.rtf

	 Essentially. There's a review buried in there, but the coding is only
'viable' for certain browsers. It is readable using Internet Explorer
(I'm using version 5.0) but not Netscape 4.7. Those are the ones I have
available, so I can't comment on others.

	 Try using Explorer to read it.

	 Ron
--

yumitori(AT)montana(DOT)com

Sorry for the problems. FWIW I composed it in Word and saved as
an .rtf file before uploading. I guess some browsers can't read .rtfs?

It's also available as post #4494.

--Rick

--- In BackpackGearTest@y..., "David Foote" <dfoote@h...> wrote:
> I tried viewing the following report and found gibberish.
> Anybody else have the same problem?
>
> df
>
> ------------
>
> Subject: New file uploaded to BackpackGearTest
>
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BackpackGearTest
> group.
>
>   File        : /Sleep Gear/WM Ultralight/WM Ultra review.rtf
>   Uploaded by : richard.dreher@j...
>   Description : Owner Review--W.M. Ultralight
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/files/Sleep%
20Gear/WM%20Ultralight/WM%20Ultra%20review.rtf

Can anyone give me a comparison between the Frogg Toggs, the Marmot
Precip and the Red Ledge Thunderlight Parka?  I'm considering new
raingear, and think I've narrowed it down to these three.  They look
pretty close in weight, but the design of the Red Ledge and the
Marmot looks more like what I think of as 'real' raingear (pit-zips,
drawcord hem, velcro cuffs vs elastic, etc).  I've seen the Frogg
Toggs and am impressed, but I've never seen the Thunderlight or the
Precip in person.  Of note, I'm looking for something that wears a
little long since I opt for a jacket/gaitor combo rather than using
rain pants.

Thanks,

David Harris

Frogg Toggs link:
http://www.froggtoggs.com/Products.html

Red Ledge link:
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?
prrfnbr=3192609&prmenbr=226

Marmot link:
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?
prrfnbr=2405451&prmenbr=226

----- Original Message -----
From: David Harris <harrises@...>
To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 7:37 PM
Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: Frogg Toggs

SNIP
>         Of note, I'm looking for something that wears a
> little long since I opt for a jacket/gaitor combo rather than using
> rain pants.
SNIP

Can't compare & contrast, but I use Frogg Toggs and my one real complaint is
that the tops are a tad short.

I don't like to wear the bottoms while hiking and my butt gets wet, from
run-off.

I have been thinking about making a silicon coated rain kilt to wear under
the tops.

Chainsaw

REPORT #1
TESTER: Phil Jones
AGE: 46
EMAIL: phil-t-jones@...
ITEM: Frogg Toggs PA102 Pro Action Rain Suit

I arrived home last night to find a package from Frogg Toggs.  The box was
rather large but light.  My first impression was that this was an empty box.
While dinner was still on the stove, I proceeded to open the box and found
the rain suit inside.  The bag was marked size SM-MD, just as I had ordered.
I even received the color that I had asked for, cranberry.

I tried on the coat.  Now, keep in mind that I am not really a big person,
5'8" and 150 pounds dripping wet.  Well, I didn't quite fill out the coat
that well.  I had plenty of room for just about any amount of clothing or
coats possible.  I can even wear this top over my bulky 1970's edition North
Face Down jacket.  I had to look at the size again to make sure that I
received the right one.  It was correct, the SM-MD size.  There should be
plenty of room in this coat to move around without putting stress on the
fabric or any of the seams.

I tried on the pants and they fit well.  I had a little trouble getting the
Frogg Toggs over my shoes.  The fabric does not have a slippery feel to it;
rather it creates a lot of friction.

When I unzipped the collar compartment on the coat and unfolded the hood, I
received some strange looks from one of my daughters.  So I went to the
mirror to see what the suit looked like on me.  I didn't see anything wrong.
The hood has a cinch cord with a cord lock that really pulls the hood close
to you.  The coat also has an elasticized hem at the bottom of the coat and
at the end of the sleeves to keep the coat close to the body.

I then took off the rain suit to give it a thorough inspection.  I examined
the coat first.  The front zipper and the collar are sewn on, while the arms
are fused to the body by a heat process.  The pants also utilize this fused
seam for all of the seams except the waist and cuffs.

I sure could have used this rain suit on my canoeing trip this past weekend.
It rained the whole weekend with some breaks.  We had to set up a fly for
lunch and dinner, but we still had a good time.  I used a silnylon poncho
and kept dry.  With the forecast calling for 60% rain this weekend also, I
should have plenty of warm and wet weather to try out the Frogg Toggs.  I
may even go canoeing again to look for the canoe I lost last weekend when
the river reached flood stage while we slept in our tent.

CONCLUSION:

The fabric is light and does not cling to you.
The suit provides ample volume to move freely without stressing any seams.
The color is the same as the web site.
The hood storage option allows the use of an auxiliary rain hat.

My only concern is the amount of pack space that this rain suit will take up
in my pack.  Neatly folded, the suit fits inside a large shoebox.  I can
compress it though, so it should fit in the top pocket of my pack.  But that
will be the only thing that I can get in there.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BackpackGearTest
group.

   File        : /Rain Gear/Frogg Toggs/Philip T. Jones /Frogg Toggs REPORT 1.htm
   Uploaded by : phil-t-jones@...
   Description : Frogg Toggs initial report

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/files/Rain%20Gear/Frogg%20Toggs/P\
hilip%20T.%20Jones%20/Frogg%20Toggs%20REPORT%201.htm

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

phil-t-jones@...

Check out the lightweight backpacking article in today's Seattle
Times newspaper:

www.seattletimes.nwsource.com

It appears this person was propped up by the big-name gearmakers
associated with Backpacker magazine.  I think we can all immediately
see where he could further save weight if he was truly
thinking "ultralightweight" (he uses this term pretty loosely).  I
wonder if the Times would consider a challenge to report on how those
of us rely on as much (or more) the homemade and cottage industry
gear as that of the MSRs and TNF of the world?

Besides the choices of gear, I also have other misgivings about the
article.  He laments about not having the time to enjoy the
surroundings due to his quest to put in high mileage, suggest that
lightweight travel risks your "well-being", and is not wise about his
hydration and nutrition efforts.  I think we would all agree that the
wise, careful, and prepared lightweight hiker can enjoy their
experience without sacrificing the benefits of the surrounding beauty
nor risk life/limb or adequate energy level.

I think a letter to the editor is in order.  Comrades?

OneMan
(apparently an "ultralightweight zealot" according to the reporter)

I tried your link to the Seattle times but kept getting a bad gateway error.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Jensen [mailto:echristopherjensen@...]
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:06 AM
> To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [BackpackGearTest] lightweight backpacking article
>
>
> Check out the lightweight backpacking article in today's Seattle
> Times newspaper:
>
> www.seattletimes.nwsource.com
>
> It appears this person was propped up by the big-name gearmakers
> associated with Backpacker magazine.  I think we can all immediately
> see where he could further save weight if he was truly
> thinking "ultralightweight" (he uses this term pretty loosely).  I
> wonder if the Times would consider a challenge to report on how those
> of us rely on as much (or more) the homemade and cottage industry
> gear as that of the MSRs and TNF of the world?
>
> Besides the choices of gear, I also have other misgivings about the
> article.  He laments about not having the time to enjoy the
> surroundings due to his quest to put in high mileage, suggest that
> lightweight travel risks your "well-being", and is not wise about his
> hydration and nutrition efforts.  I think we would all agree that the
> wise, careful, and prepared lightweight hiker can enjoy their
> experience without sacrificing the benefits of the surrounding beauty
> nor risk life/limb or adequate energy level.
>
> I think a letter to the editor is in order.  Comrades?
>
> OneMan
> (apparently an "ultralightweight zealot" according to the reporter)
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
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> BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

thanks


-----Original Message-----
From: Barb [mailto:barbwill@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:46 AM
To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] lightweight backpacking article


Phil....I had problems with that one too.....JB said try this one and it
worked for me.
Barb

seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/northwestweekend/134337674_hike06.html


----- Original Message -----
From: JONES, PHILIP  <mailto:phil-t-jones@...> T
To: 'BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com'
<mailto:'BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com'>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 9:23 AM
Subject: RE: [BackpackGearTest] lightweight backpacking article

I tried your link to the Seattle times but kept getting a bad gateway error.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Jensen [mailto:echristopherjensen@...]
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:06 AM
> To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [BackpackGearTest] lightweight backpacking article
>
>
> Check out the lightweight backpacking article in today's Seattle
> Times newspaper:
>
> www.seattletimes.nwsource.com
>
> It appears this person was propped up by the big-name gearmakers
> associated with Backpacker magazine.  I think we can all immediately
> see where he could further save weight if he was truly
> thinking "ultralightweight" (he uses this term pretty loosely).  I
> wonder if the Times would consider a challenge to report on how those
> of us rely on as much (or more) the homemade and cottage industry
> gear as that of the MSRs and TNF of the world?
>
> Besides the choices of gear, I also have other misgivings about the
> article.  He laments about not having the time to enjoy the
> surroundings due to his quest to put in high mileage, suggest that
> lightweight travel risks your "well-being", and is not wise about his
> hydration and nutrition efforts.  I think we would all agree that the
> wise, careful, and prepared lightweight hiker can enjoy their
> experience without sacrificing the benefits of the surrounding beauty
> nor risk life/limb or adequate energy level.
>
> I think a letter to the editor is in order.  Comrades?
>
> OneMan
> (apparently an "ultralightweight zealot" according to the reporter)
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
> FREE COLLEGE MONEY
> CLICK HERE to search
> 600,000 scholarships!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/V4TolB/TM
<http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/V4TolB/TM>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------~->
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>
>
>


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Well, after 2 aborted attempts at delivery (UPS has some room for
improvement) I received my Frogg Toggs today.
They arrived in a rather large, but light weight, cardboard box.
I had requested the gray suit in size SM/MD, and received it as
ordered. One note on ordering, be aware that colors on web sites are
not certain. I had ordered the gray looking to stand out to
mosquitoes and thus test the suit's abilities as a mosquito proof
shell as well. The folks at Frogg Toggs called to verify that I
really wanted the gray, and I went back to the web site to verify the
color, and decided I did indeed want the gray. Well, my monitor is
set a little dark, so what I was seeing as a light charcoal gray is
in fact a light fog gray. I will actually prefer the lighter color,
as it will tend to not attract bugs or soak up the sun (during those
breaks in the rain when it is not worth taking off the raingear
because the rain will return), however, it will be interesting to see
how many blood suckers even notice me this week-end.
Also, a note on sizing. At 5'-7" and 180#, I am actually on the low
side of the SM/MD size for height, and into the L/XL size on weight.
Well, I would suggest you let height govern. Even with the SM/MD
size, I have plenty of room for thermal layers, and the arm and leg
length is just a little baggy as would be expected. Had I opted to
let weight govern, I would have been swimming in a rain suit much to
large to be comfortable. I should mention that the folks at Frogg
Toggs called to verify size with me, and in discussing my height &
weight it was suggested that SM/MD was the way to go, I don't expect
that everyone would get that kind of treatment. As long as you size
by height I think most people will be OK.
So, on to the Toggs themselves. The fabric is an interesting
paperlike stuff, with little dimples everywhere. The jacket has a
zippered front with snaps, and an elastic waist & cuffs. The hood
hides in a rather thick roll at the neck, with zippered access. When
the hood is out, a small tab of fabric attempts to lay over the lower
portion of the zipper, to keep this area from becoming a water trap.
From the looks of it, it may be a little short to do the job, but we
shall see. The hood has a cord with toggles, and when cinched down
tight, does on nice job of covering my head without sliding down over
my forehead and eyes as many hoods do.
The pants have an elastic waist, as well as a cord for snugging them
up, and zippers to allow the pants to go on over boots. There is a
small (1/2") gap at the top of the zipper, which may let water in, or
may not. I will be keeping an eye on it. The pants have no true
pockets, but they do have a pass-through on either side to allow
access to your gear under the Toggs. I have heard comments from some
folks asking for true pockets, but that then entails moving items
from your regular pockets to you raingear pockets, then back again
when the raingear comes off. I would much rather leave my stuff where
it is and get to it via a pass-through.
Once rolled and stuffed, the pair fits (very) snuggly in a 1 gallon
ziploc bag. Much smaller than the box they arrived in. I will weigh
the pair tomorrow at REI (last minute gear purchases ;) and report
back later.

For my testing profile, I will be doing three week-end backpacks, as
well as some day hiking in Portland's Forest Park, and perhaps even
some bike riding.
The first trip this week-end is to the Opal Creek area, in the
central Oregon Cascades. The forecast calls for clear and warm, so
the rain gear aspect of the Toggs will not get a workout, but the
mosquitoes in this area have been ravenous all summer, so I should
see a few blood suckers. I will also test the breathability by
wearing the jacket for part of the 3300' climb up Battle Ax peak.
The other two trips are the Mt. Hood loop trail in two weeks, and a
week-end in the Eagle Creek area of the Columbia Gorge in late
October. Both should result in rain, and if not, the day hikes
certainly will.

In general, I am quite happy with the Toggs so far. The construction
seems good, the detailing seems well thought out, and there are
blissfully no bells or whistles, just functional gear. Also, the
support from the Frogg Toggs folks has been quite good. I suspect we
testers are getting more attention than a regular Joe would, but I
get the impression that everyone would be treated well.

Well, time to load up the G4!

Gordon

OK, I got around to weighing my Frogg Toggs just now.  The coat weighs 8.4
ounces and the pants weigh 6.1 ounces for a grand total of 14.5 ounces.

Phil

As far as I'm concerned, the more wide ranging our testers are, the
better.  But, individual manufacturers may prefer to limit where they
send their gear to be tested.

Mara

--- In BackpackGearTest@y..., nicholson1318@h... wrote:
> Is gear testing open to Canadians?

Hey Dr. Bob,

Check out the requirements for non-tester comments and feel free to
submit a report when you've had some more experiences with the Frogg
Toggs.

Mara

--- In BackpackGearTest@y..., Drbobwilborn@a... wrote:
> I have been considering purchasing a set of Frogg Toggs and finally
broke
> down and ordered a set on Monday. ...

Hey Rick,

I finally figured out a foolproof way to generate a file that can
apparently be read by all...  (Apparently, not all browsers can
handle rich text format .rtf files.)

From Word, save your file in .htm format.  Then, using Notepad, edit
the file and remove the META line that references word.

It looks something like:

META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="Microsoft Word 97">

(I removed the leading open angle brackets so they wouldn't
be "translated" as html.)

If you don't take out that META line (or even perhaps just the Word
reference), then some people have to download the file to read it.

Save that file and it should upload in a way that can be read by all.

Hope this helps,
Mara


--- In BackpackGearTest@y..., richard.dreher@j... wrote:
> Sorry for the problems. FWIW I composed it in Word and saved as
> an .rtf file before uploading. I guess some browsers can't
read .rtfs?
>
> It's also available as post #4494.
>
> --Rick
>
> --- In BackpackGearTest@y..., "David Foote" <dfoote@h...> wrote:
> > I tried viewing the following report and found gibberish.
> > Anybody else have the same problem?
> >
> > df
> >
> > ------------
> >
> > Subject: New file uploaded to BackpackGearTest
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > This email message is a notification to let you know that
> > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BackpackGearTest
> > group.
> >
> >   File        : /Sleep Gear/WM Ultralight/WM Ultra review.rtf
> >   Uploaded by : richard.dreher@j...
> >   Description : Owner Review--W.M. Ultralight
> >
> > You can access this file at the URL
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/files/Sleep%
> 20Gear/WM%20Ultralight/WM%20Ultra%20review.rtf

Hi All,

Can anybody recomend a good fleece that is windproof?

thanks

craig

Hi Mara,
Got back last night from Colorado Hike, we got snowed out.
Have been going through hundreds of messages but could not see who was
chosen for the
Frogg Toggs,
Thanks,

Marge Prothman  (the old gal)
-----Original Message-----
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Marge:

You're on the list.  She has a folder ready for you in the files
section.  Congratulations, I look forward to seeing your report.

David Harris

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BackpackGearTest
group.

   File        : /Rain Gear/Frogg Toggs/Philip T. Jones /Frogg Toggs REPORT 2.htm
   Uploaded by : phil-t-jones@...
   Description : Second report on the Frogg Toggs rain suit

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/files/Rain%20Gear/Frogg%20Toggs/P\
hilip%20T.%20Jones%20/Frogg%20Toggs%20REPORT%202.htm

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

phil-t-jones@...

REPORT #2
TESTER: Phil Jones
AGE: 46
EMAIL: phil-t-jones@...
ITEM: Frogg Toggs PA102 Pro Action Rain Suit

Over the weekend, I had the opportunity to check out the Frogg Toggs in
action. We were expecting rain all weekend and on Sunday, it came with a
vengeance. This was a perfect opportunity to see how well the suit would
perform.
I put on the rain suit and started walking toward Lake Pontchartrain. It is
a four-block walk to the lake and there is a bike trail along the lake. The
rain had cooled things off, so it was 76 degrees when I took my walk. After
5 minutes of walking, I started to feel a little clammy with the rain suit
on. It was still raining hard and the wind was blowing about 15 miles per
hour so I couldn't open up the coat at all for venting purposes. I didn't
make it to the lake since the lightening was striking hard, and I didn't
want to expose myself anymore by crossing the raised levee. So, I continued
to walk the streets in the neighborhood.
I looped back home and spent a total of fifteen minutes in the rain. After
taking off the rain suit, I made the following observations:
1) I felt clammy in the rain suit.
2) The collar area of the coat was wet.
3) The zippers at the bottom of the legs were very wet and soaked
through.
4) I had several small wet spots on the front of my t-shirt.
5) My face was uncomfortably wet from the blown rain.
All of the fused seams appeared to be completely waterproof. However, the
sewn seam around the collar leaked. It didn't leak enough that water flowed
into the rain suit, just enough to dampen the inside of the collar area. I
did make sure that I pulled out the little protective flap at the base of
the hood. This flap prevents rain from running into the zippered collar
where the hood is stored when not in use. I couldn't tell if the water on
the front of my shirt resulted from rain blown around the storm flap or if
the sewn seam on the front of the coat had leaked. The two zippers at the
bottom of the legs did leak water onto my socks. This wasn't a big issue
since my shoes were completely soaked anyway from the heavy rain. I did wish
that I had worn a baseball cap with a visor over my face. It was very
difficult to walk with my head down to prevent windblown rain from entering
the rain suit. I'm sure that a built in visor won't add very much weight to
the coat though. So, this might be an area for improvement. Also, the ends
of the sleeve did leak when I raised my hand to wipe my face, but this could
be a result of my small diameter wrists. I think that pit zips would add
more comfort to the rain suit by allowing air to enter from below and exit
around the color. Another possibility would be to put a drawstring at the
bottom of the coat instead of elastic, thus allowing the user to let fresh
air into the suit from the bottom of the coat.

For my next test, I will keep the built in hood in its pocket and use my OR
Seattle Sombrero. I want to see if this helps the collar seam from leaking.
I may also apply some silicone chalking to the two seams on the coat, the
collar and the front zipper storm flap.

Good report.

Also parallels my experience so far -- both in type of exposure (e.g., just
walking around) and in the results.

I am waiting until I get some real mileage w/ a pack before I post an
owner's report.  I am very interested in how the fabric holds up to wear
under the shoulder straps.

Chainsaw

BTW -- Frogg Toggs come out of the sportsmen's world -- primarily fishing.
Most fishermen wear hat, or rather caps.  Hence most users wear the hood
over a cap w/o a bill.  That won't effect the neck leak, but explains the
"missing" bill.

BTW2 -- The ends of my sleeve leak around the stitching, as well as when I
raised my hand to wipe my face (and I don't have small diameter wrists).   I
suspect all the sewn seams leak.


----- Original Message -----
From: JONES, PHILIP T <phil-t-jones@...>
To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 9:31 AM
Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Frogg Toggs Second Report


> REPORT #2
> TESTER: Phil Jones
> AGE: 46
> EMAIL: phil-t-jones@...
> ITEM: Frogg Toggs PA102 Pro Action Rain Suit
>
> Over the weekend, I had the opportunity to check out the Frogg Toggs in
> action. We were expecting rain all weekend and on Sunday, it came with a
> vengeance. This was a perfect opportunity to see how well the suit would
> perform.
> I put on the rain suit and started walking toward Lake Pontchartrain. It
is
> a four-block walk to the lake and there is a bike trail along the lake.
The
> rain had cooled things off, so it was 76 degrees when I took my walk.
After
> 5 minutes of walking, I started to feel a little clammy with the rain suit
> on. It was still raining hard and the wind was blowing about 15 miles per
> hour so I couldn't open up the coat at all for venting purposes. I didn't
> make it to the lake since the lightening was striking hard, and I didn't
> want to expose myself anymore by crossing the raised levee. So, I
continued
> to walk the streets in the neighborhood.
> I looped back home and spent a total of fifteen minutes in the rain. After
> taking off the rain suit, I made the following observations:
> 1) I felt clammy in the rain suit.
> 2) The collar area of the coat was wet.
> 3) The zippers at the bottom of the legs were very wet and soaked
> through.
> 4) I had several small wet spots on the front of my t-shirt.
> 5) My face was uncomfortably wet from the blown rain.
> All of the fused seams appeared to be completely waterproof. However, the
> sewn seam around the collar leaked. It didn't leak enough that water
flowed
> into the rain suit, just enough to dampen the inside of the collar area. I
> did make sure that I pulled out the little protective flap at the base of
> the hood. This flap prevents rain from running into the zippered collar
> where the hood is stored when not in use. I couldn't tell if the water on
> the front of my shirt resulted from rain blown around the storm flap or if
> the sewn seam on the front of the coat had leaked. The two zippers at the
> bottom of the legs did leak water onto my socks. This wasn't a big issue
> since my shoes were completely soaked anyway from the heavy rain. I did
wish
> that I had worn a baseball cap with a visor over my face. It was very
> difficult to walk with my head down to prevent windblown rain from
entering
> the rain suit. I'm sure that a built in visor won't add very much weight
to
> the coat though. So, this might be an area for improvement. Also, the ends
> of the sleeve did leak when I raised my hand to wipe my face, but this
could
> be a result of my small diameter wrists. I think that pit zips would add
> more comfort to the rain suit by allowing air to enter from below and exit
> around the color. Another possibility would be to put a drawstring at the
> bottom of the coat instead of elastic, thus allowing the user to let fresh
> air into the suit from the bottom of the coat.
>
> For my next test, I will keep the built in hood in its pocket and use my
OR
> Seattle Sombrero. I want to see if this helps the collar seam from
leaking.
> I may also apply some silicone chalking to the two seams on the coat, the
> collar and the front zipper storm flap.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Frogg Toggs PA102 Pro Action Rain Suit
Report 1 & 2 10 September 2001
Stuart Bilby, Age 35, stu@...

The frogg toggs were delivered today by UPS in good condition to my house in
Auckland, New Zealand, despite having the city name missing from the address
and the suburb spelled wrong. No issues with customs and no tax or duty
payable.

They come with a tag promoting their DuraVent 100% polypropylene fabric and
informing of their 100% satisfaction guarantee. The tag claims they weigh
11.5 oz, which is not true of L-XL size. See weights below. There are no
other instructions, and none appear necessary. The washing instructions on
the tag sewn to the clothing warn against heat drying and dry-cleaning, but
allow hand or machine washing.

Sizing I am 5'9" (176 cm) and 176 lb (80 kg) The size L-XL frogg toggs are
very generously sized for me. They bunch a little around the ankles. Pulled
down the jacket reaches to just below my buttocks and my hands tuck nicely
inside the sleeves. Perfect for keeping my gloves dry. The chest area is so
big that it puffs out a little blocking the view of my toes. A pack with a
waist strap stops that problem. There is no restriction to movement with the
jacket, but the pants with their papery feel, bind a little on clothing
underneath when lifting my legs high. I have found this to be normal with
non-stretch rainwear. The simple elastic cuff on the sleeves and ankles
appear to be just the right tension for my fairly thin wrists.

Materials and Construction The fabric appears papery with dimples,
resembling disposable diaper material. It makes a little papery crinkling
noise when you walk. The fawn color has a not unpleasant patchiness as shown
on the website.

The hood zips away readily into the collar. It is a simple shape with no
brim. It has a light shoelace drawstring with a cordlock at each end. Like
the waist-cord on the pants, the string is not knotted at the ends and the
cordlocks can be pulled off and lost. Three quick knots soon fix that. The
hood cinches nicely around my face to just leave my eyes exposed. There are
no draw-cords at the waist or hem of the jacket.

The main seams are ultrasonically welded. The detailing (front zipper, hood
attachment and pant's pocket holes) is sewn without seam sealing.

The jacket has no pockets and the pants have a hole on each side covered by
a 2.5 inch wide flap with a single small metal snap fastener. The pockets
are barely long enough (7 inches) for my smallish hands when wearing mitts.
Within minutes of putting the pants on, while trying to open the pocket snap
I ripped the stitching at the top of the pocket flap. This tore a quarter
inch (10 mm) hole in the single layer of underlying fabric. Putting a rip in
them so soon after getting them was tragic. I will put a piece of duct tape
over that area and treat the pockets very gently. Because there are no other
pockets, I envisage that the pockets will get a lot of use, at least for
keeping my hands warm. This high stress location could perhaps be
strengthened by running the pocket flap all the way up to the waistband.

The main zippers on the jacket and ankles are chunky plastic YKK brand with
metal tags. The jacket zipper has a single 2.2 inch wide storm flap, held in
place by five small metal snap fasteners. The ankle cuffs are elasticated
and have an 8 inch long zipper. I could put them on over my full leather
boots (Asolo AFX535 size 10 USA), a nice feature for the snow, but not over
my plastic climbing boots (Asolo Guide AFS size 11 USA)

Weight
size L-XL Jacket 9.9 oz (282 g)  Pants 7.7 oz (217 g)

Volume. Pushed firmly into a measuring bowl the garments are more bulky for
their weight than nylon fabrics. They pack to about twice the volume of
similar weight coated nylon garments. This presumably reflects the lower
density of polypropylene and the slight stiffness of the fabric.

Jacket 116 cubic inches (1.9 litres) Pants 92 cubic inches (1.5 litres)

First impression of the frogg toggs is that they are light, nicely put
together and without any unnecessary extras.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BackpackGearTest
group.

   File        : /Rain Gear/Frogg Toggs/Stuart Bilby/frogg toggs rep 1.htm
   Uploaded by : stu@...
   Description : Frogg Toggs Report 1 & 2 - Stuart Bilby

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest/files/Rain%20Gear/Frogg%20Toggs/S\
tuart%20Bilby/frogg%20toggs%20rep%201.htm

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

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Regards,

stu@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Rumohr [mailto:jrumohr@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:02 AM
To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BackpackGearTest] brief multiple gear reviews

I just got back from a 7 day canoe/kayak trip in the Lake Bowron Provincal Park in British Columbia. I tried some new pieces of gear out and here are my quick and dirties...fuller user reviews to come in the future:

 

Items reviewed: golight gust pack, golight dome, swa inline filter, frogg toggs suit, plastic tarp setup

 

Jason Rumohr

28, 5'10", 145 lbs.