Apologies but I just want to query M Haydon's geography a bit. As one drives
down the M25 towards the Staines junction there is a sign, immediately after
Heathrow that says "SURREY". The shrike is south of this sign.
 
I might also point out that, since the re-organisation of local government in, I
think, 1973 Middlesex has only existed in county cricket. No-one pays Council
Tax to Middlesex and I'm sure the residents around Staines Moor are paying
council tax to Surrey.
 
I also think Poyle was ceded to Berkshire in more recent changes and its not
realistic to keep the old borders of a county or all my bird records from my
university days will have to be changed to take into account birds I saw in
South Oxfordshire which used to Berkshire and Slough would still be in Bucks.
(some might say they can have it back but that would be conrtroversial).
 
So can someone from Berks (or Bucks or Surrey) Records please tell me whether we
use current, old or very old county boundaries?  

thanks
 
Graham

--- On Wed, 14/10/09, bty72092057 <rmhaydon@...> wrote:


From: bty72092057 <rmhaydon@...>
Subject: [BERKSBIRDS] Brown Shrike (was Re: Great Grey Shrike crossing into
Berks?)
To: BERKSBIRDS@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 14 October, 2009, 12:16 AM


 



Just to correct a little misunderstanding; no part of Surrey is north of the
Thames. Staines Moor and Wraysbury Reservoir are in Middlesex,, Wraysbury is in
Berks and Poyle, immediately north of the reservoir, is in Bucks. The GG stayed
in Middlesex until it got to the far side of the reservoir and then entered
Berks. It would have had to go NNW to have avoided Berks. This I was told by
someone I regard as reliable, having myself arrived late, is not what it did.

Incidentally I met someone, this evening, who lives in Hithermoor Road. I
suspect she may be out scaring shrikes away having endured a nightmare of a day
with both crowds and car parking.

--- In BERKSBIRDS@yahoogro ups.com, "ashley" <ash@...> wrote:
>
> I found this on BirdForum, written today by Ilya...
>
> Hey Ilya...
> In your piece on shrike ID on your blog you say that obvious pale tertial
fringes is a feature in favour of it being a 1w (which this bird certainly
shows), and you also mention barring on the uppertail covs as pro 1w (which this
certainly seemed to show, although it didn't exactly flaunt its uppertail covs).
Not sure if that helps....
>
> Ilya's reply - When I wrote the post on my blog, my comments were based on Tim
Worfolk's article in Dutch Birding. He writes:
>
> First winters can be aged by the presence of retained juvenile tertials,
greater or median coverts. These are of the typical Lanius pattern: pale fringed
with a dark subterminal line. He also says that some (first winter as opposed to
juvenile) Brown Shrikes also show some obvious barred feathers on the upperside,
but these are restricted to the side of the crown, scapulars or the rump and
uppertail coverts. He also goes on to say that barred feathers on the upperside
(most obvious on the upper-tail coverts) are occasionally shown by adults in
Spring and Summer and occasionally as late as August. (I.e. adults in October
should not show this, nor should adults in September as with the Lizard bird).
>
> Since writing my blog post, I've been looking at a few more photos of presumed
adult Brown Shrikes. I've noticed that quite a number of photos of birds
labelled as adults seem to have obvious pale fringing to the coverts and/or
tertials. For example: this one, this one, and this one.
>
> Quite a number also seem to have some evidence of barring on the uppertail
coverts and/or rump. For example, this one, this one and this one.
>
> I am now questioning whether Tim Worfolk's article (and the post on my blog)
are actually correct. Of course, there is a possibility that the birds in the
linked photos have been incorrectly labelled, but most do indeed look like
adults in that they don't look partially moulted and have other features which
would age them as an adult such as solid dark lores. My suspicions are that it
is sometimes very hard to correctly separate 1st winter and adult female Brown
Shrikes, but wonder if the lore (if all dark) and crown streaking are actually
more reliable features.
>
> Regards
> Ashley
>
> --- In BERKSBIRDS@yahoogro ups.com, "bse240" <bse240@> wrote:
> >
> > Brian,
> >
> > Ilya's web piece is not about the Staines moor bird (note the date: Oct 9th
2009 - before even the 'Red-backed' had been found!). It's about a putative
Brown on the Lizard.
> >
> > Despite his web writings, I'm not sure how experienced he is. He makes the
mistake of comparing primary projections in photos (ie 'frozen' in a moment in
time) with assessing pp pjtn in the field - which is made over time (with the
observer correcting any momentary impressions) .
> >
> > In fact the differing pp pjtn between Red-backed and Brown Shrikes is
massive - as is the number of pp tips (c5 in Brown, 7-8 in Red-backed). It was
this, along with unequivocally graduated tail-shape,
> > which enabled me to confidently re-identify it as a Brown yesterday.
> >
> > Regards, Chris Heard
> >
> >
> > --- In BERKSBIRDS@yahoogro ups.com, "Brian Clews" <brian.clews@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > Incidentally, for anyone (like me) totally inexperienced in this family of
> > > birds, there is an excellent item by Ilya Maclean on the Staines bird at
> > > http://piratebirdin g.blogspot. com/2009/ 10/more-on- brown-shrikes. html
I'm
> > > sure there will be many others as more folk connect with the bird.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ilya mentions the tail colouration, which appeared to me rusty coloured
near
> > > the base, but with darker colours towards the pale-tipped end. The one
point
> > > I had a really good look at the bill, it appeared to me to almost have a
> > > small 'gull-shaped' gonys but it may have just been a particle of food or
> > > something. I couldn't get any clarity on wing formation. The eye ring
> > > appeared dark orange, especially where it met the very distinctive dark
ear
> > > coverts. The dainty vermiculations on upper chest and flanks seemed to
> > > extend right down to the base of the tail but I could detect no hint of
> > > brown to the under-parts as shown in some of the images of Brown Shrike I
> > > have looked at this afternoon.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You will notice Ilya cautions observers regarding apparent primary
> > > projection in the field, but from all the views I had, the ratio of tail
> > > length to mantle plus wings seemed extensive to me compared to what one
> > > would expect with RBs.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It will be very interesting to see what photos from today's excellent
> > > viewing conditions reveal.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Brian Clews
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.12/2431 - Release Date: 10/12/09
> > > 13:01:00
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>



















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