Thank you for the early period information (and yep I was asking female
dress, I just had a moment and forgot to include it.)

Thanks
Kendra

Hi All,

It's reached that stage in my garb wardrobe, where I need to start repairing
things, mostly patching holes and tears in seams. I *know* that there are
garments out there with patches (the Y-piece on the Bocksten hood springs to
mind), but what I'm having trouble is finding information on *how* garments were
patched.

I'm guessing that patches were sewn to the outside of the garment, but what
happened on the inside? Were the edges of the repair hemmed facing inside the
garment, or outside towards the patch? Were any special patching stitches used?

Any help would be appreciated,
~Asfridhr

My favorite place to start for patching techniques -- although it's a bit on the
early side (7th c) -- is the Bernuthsfeld tunic. Almost more patches than
original fabric. The most detailed look at it is in an article by Heidemarie
Farke in NESAT 6.

Heather Rose Jones

On Oct 19, 2010, at 4:39 PM, "Quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> It's reached that stage in my garb wardrobe, where I need to start repairing
things, mostly patching holes and tears in seams. I *know* that there are
garments out there with patches (the Y-piece on the Bocksten hood springs to
mind), but what I'm having trouble is finding information on *how* garments were
patched.
>
> I'm guessing that patches were sewn to the outside of the garment, but what
happened on the inside? Were the edges of the repair hemmed facing inside the
garment, or outside towards the patch? Were any special patching stitches used?
>
> Any help would be appreciated,
> ~Asfridhr
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> This is the Authentic SCA eGroupYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

> I'm guessing that patches were sewn to the
> outside of the garment, but what happened on
> the inside? Were the edges of the repair
> hemmed facing inside the garment, or outside
> towards the patch? Were any special patching
> stitches used?
> Any help would be appreciated,
~Asfridhr

I'd be interested in learning that also. My first response, upon reading
Asfridhr's speculation was to say, "no, on the inside!" because that is the
most common method I learned for darning/patching frayed fabric. But what I
learned is modern... I never once gave a thought to what would have been a
period practise.

Hrothny

Hello everyone,

I failed to properly catalogue an image and now I find myself wanting to
cite it. Please let me know if you have any information. I've Googled
many combinations of the words and numbers to no avail, and I tried
using tineye.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22776573@N03/5103238749/

Sayyeda al-Kaslaania

It's from the qantara-med.org site, but here's the kicker: it's en francaise:

http://www.qantara-med.org/qantara4/public/show_document.php?do_id=1088

I have noticed that for each of the languages, not quite the same collection of
items comes up under each of the sub-sections. For example, under the Spanish
language section, for the metals, only three pages of items comes up compared
with five for the English and the French - but the Spanish items group shows
medical instruments, while the English and French pages lack this item.
Conversely, the musician figurine shows up in the French pages but not in the
English.

Frustrating? You bet. But it does show that site is well worth clicking around
in all of the languages.

FYI, it's also in the Arabic section:

http://www.qantara-med.org/qantara4/public/show_document.php?do_id=1088&lang=ar

YIS,
Adelisa de Salernum

Funny you should bring this up. I just got thru patching a pair of under
trousers/ drawers. They are linen and have had several rips in them. Both in the
half feet ( at the heel) and in the butt/crotch joins where the seams are
several layers thick and the fabric next to them gets split from stresses
induced while riding horses.

The whole garment is hand sewn with french and/or flat felled seams. The
stitches are large - about 5 to 8 mm long, so some looseness in the seams
exists. Whenever I get another tear, I remove the garment and repair it before
washing it again. My method is to sew the rip together with edges just touching
( no overlap or gathering ). If a hole is present due to too much unraveling, or
a piece is gone, I darn over it to consolidate the fabric. Then I find a scrap
of fabric of the same color ( or close - I have a brown patch on a black garment
, under the heel where it is hidden by my shoe) to make a patch from and cut it
to overlap the repair area sufficiently. Then I sew it over the outside of the
area and whip stitch the edges down, both to secure it in place as well as to
prevent it from unraveling ( if it is worn under other layers, otherwise I would
fold under the edges and make it neater).I then sew lines of running stitches
about an inch apart all over the patch, to secure the center to the underlying
fabric. It looks a bit crude, but works. I have been using this garment for
nearly 10 years now, and so far I feel it is still got a lot more use left.

I don't know how period my method is, but since it's not out for others to see,
I'm content.

Henrik of Havn

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

--- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> It's reached that stage in my garb wardrobe, where I need to start repairing
things, mostly patching holes and tears in seams. I *know* that there are
garments out there with patches (the Y-piece on the Bocksten hood springs to
mind), but what I'm having trouble is finding information on *how* garments were
patched.
>
> I'm guessing that patches were sewn to the outside of the garment, but what
happened on the inside? Were the edges of the repair hemmed facing inside the
garment, or outside towards the patch? Were any special patching stitches used?
>
> Any help would be appreciated,
> ~Asfridhr
>

I found an example, so I'll answer my own question, too!

In Lovlid, Dan Halvard. 2009. "Nye Tanker om Skjoldehamnfunnet" (Bergen
University)
http://www.lofotr.no/pdf/Skjoldhamnfunnet/Nye%20tanker%20om%20Skjoldehamnfunnet.\
pdf

pp. 96-7 describes the patches on the shirt from Skjoldehamn, in Norway:

"Med unntak av lapp 3 er alle lappene utvendige. De utvendige lappene har for
det meste blitt brettet inn før de har blitt sydd på, men enkelte steder har man
latt de være ubrettet. Lappenes sømmer er oftest til dels grove kastesømmer i
forskjellige garntyper, der Z2S er det vanligste."

"With the exception of patch number 3, all of the patches are on the outside.
The outside patches had mostly been folded-in before being sewn on, but in some
places they were flat. The patch seams are usually roughly overcast in different
yarn types, where Z2S is the most common."

"Kastestingsømmer fra vrangen har også blitt brukt for å feste hullenes
sårkanter til den overliggende lappen (f. eks. på lapp 6)."

"Overcast stitches from the wrong side also has been used to fasten the edges of
a hole to an overlaid patch (for example, patch no. 6)."

The shirt was re-dated in the same thesis from 1050 to 1090 CE (pp. 147-152).

~Asfridhr

<<snip>>
> My favorite place to start for patching techniques -- although it's a bit on
the early side (7th c) -- is the Bernuthsfeld tunic. Almost more patches than
original fabric. The most detailed look at it is in an article by Heidemarie
Farke in NESAT 6.
>
> Heather Rose Jones
<<snip>>

Thank-you, I had completely forgotten about "Der Männerkittel aus Bernuthsfeld,"
and in hindsight it is obvious!

~Asfridhr

There's also the patches in a garment worn by the beggar in the story of St.
Martin, on an altarpiece painted in 1496, now at the Landesmuseum Ferdinandeum
in Austria:
http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7003321.JPG


Karen Larsdatter
www.larsdatter.com

Back on Sept. 29, Jarlath Riley said:
<<< I do not have my own garb yet, but I am trying to get authentic garb. I do
not mind a stew with potatoes and tomatoes, but I never mind potatoes and
tomatoes. >>>

Both potatoes and tomatoes are "period" but not "medieval". Still, unless they
are at an event being staged in the late 16th C, it is better not to use them.
Even then they were really only known in parts of Italy and Spain and they shout
"modern" to me.

For more info on these see these files in the FOOD-VEGETABLES section in the
Florilegium.

16C-Tomato-art (16K) 9/ 5/02 "Sixteenth Century Italian and Spanish Tomato
References" by Johnnae llyn Lewis,
Helewyse de Birkestad, and Brighid ni Chiarain.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-VEGETABLES/16C-Tomato-art.html

Tomatoes-art (22K) 10/15/06 "Love, Death or Mere Curiosity? The Tomato
in Renaissance Europe" by Mistress Renata Kestryl of Highwynds
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-VEGETABLES/Tomatoes-art.html

tomatoes-msg (34K) 1/17/05 Tomatoes in period.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-VEGETABLES/tomatoes-msg.html

potatoes-msg (142K) 5/15/08 Period white and sweet potato use. Recipes.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-VEGETABLES/potatoes-msg.html

If you've never been there, the address of the Florilegium can be found in my
signature line below. Since you are new to the SCA, I'd also recommend you take
a look at the NEWCOMERS section. There is also a section on clothing.

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous@...
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****

Back in August someone asked:
<<< So has anybody got evidence would be a period appropriate favour
(ignoring debates about whether a man  would carry a favour in the SCA
sense, especially when fencing) for a 16th  century persona that I can
make using my fabric related  skills. >>>

Just in case it might still be of use, there is this article in the ACCRSSORIES
section of the Florilegium:
p-favors-art (14K) 9/21/94 Article on period favors by Ray Lischner.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/ACCESS/p-favors-art.html

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous@...
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****

Surely we have some experts on patching on this list.  Heather Rose Jones or
Robin of Netherton should be able to answer our questions,

Are they on line?  My favorite clothing article is a no go-Hewather Rose
Jones' presentation at Kalamazoo "Getting into women's underwear."

I had expected far more males to show interest:  it got mo=inbe roight
away;p however,
I not only have know the author for decades but also am a charter member of
the SSS (Soiled Senior Citizens).

I have a plethora of white triskles on one garment that are looking worn and
grungy and my seamstress wife has the talent but not the back

stamina to even look at them; therefore, I shall be doing the stitches.  My
last hand-stitched garment was a seersucker shirt in 1957.

It lasted me five years.



Colm Dubh

--- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Scott" <Scat@...> wrote:
>
> Surely we have some experts on patching on this list.  Heather Rose Jones or
> Robin of Netherton should be able to answer our questions,
>
> Are they on line?

Please see message 58509:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Authentic_SCA/message/58509

Saionji no Hana
West Kingdom

On Oct 24, 2010, at 10:57 PM, LJonthebay wrote:

>
>
> --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Scott" <Scat@...> wrote:
>>
>> Surely we have some experts on patching on this list.  Heather Rose Jones or
>> Robin of Netherton should be able to answer our questions,
>>
>> Are they on line?
>
> Please see message 58509:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Authentic_SCA/message/58509

I would also like to note, I am not an "expert on patching" -- I'm an expert at
remembering the citations for odd bits of information I've run across over the
years.

Tangwystyl

Thanks to all for a very interesting conversation on a topic I hadn't
thought of :)

Cheers!

Marianne


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello all!

Does anyone have any suggestions on where I might look for good source material
on folly bells?  So far, I've managed to find one article on-line and a mention
of bells in the Museum of London Accessories book, and that's about it.  Might
there be another term that's used?  I'm particularly interested in the baldric
style bells, and am trying to figure out what the baldric itself might have been
made of (cloth, tablet weaving, chain, etc?)


-Oda

Oda asked:

> Does anyone have any suggestions on where I might look for good
> source material on folly bells?

I'd suggest looking for "crotal bells" -- this is a term (used by
archaeologists, among others) for this general shape of small bell.

A couple of resources:
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/pages/crotal-bells.html
http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/B/bells.htm
http://www.finds.org.uk/database (use this site to find crotal bells found in
England -- though it can find A LOT of things) ;-)

FWIW, I don't know of any resources that have specific examples of what the
baldric or belt were _definitely_ made of, but there are other medieval belts
and other accessories that might inspire avenues for re-creation; see
http://larsdatter.com/belts.htm or http://larsdatter.com/wide-belts.htm for
example.


Karen Larsdatter
www.larsdatter.com

On 10/23/2010 4:56 PM, Karen wrote:
> There's also the patches in a garment worn by the beggar in the story of St.
> Martin, on an altarpiece painted in 1496, now at the Landesmuseum Ferdinandeum
> in Austria:
> http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7003321.JPG
>
>
> Karen Larsdatter
> www.larsdatter.com
Beggars are well known--very reasonably--for exaggerating and
emphasizing their bodily deformities and lacks, so I wouldn't be
surprised if the very obvious patching here were part of a similar pattern.

--George/Gerard

Hi Asfridhr,

the tunic of St Francis of Assisi that can be seen in the basilica at Assisi has
been patched multiple times, and I think different stitches were used. I
remember reading that some of the pieces seem to have come from the tunic of St
Clare, and that these patches are sewn on with a special stitch, but I can't
find the reference at the moment.

With a multiple-layer garment (e.g. an Elizabethan doublet) you will only have
to stitch the patch on the outside if the inner layers are intact. The doublet
of Don Garzia de' Medici (a young man from one of the wealthiest families in
Europe) has a patch on one elbow, which indicates that patching and repairing
garments was not restricted to the lower classes.

Best regards,

Christina



--- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> It's reached that stage in my garb wardrobe, where I need to start repairing
things, mostly patching holes and tears in seams. I *know* that there are
garments out there with patches (the Y-piece on the Bocksten hood springs to
mind), but what I'm having trouble is finding information on *how* garments were
patched.
>
> I'm guessing that patches were sewn to the outside of the garment, but what
happened on the inside? Were the edges of the repair hemmed facing inside the
garment, or outside towards the patch? Were any special patching stitches used?
>
> Any help would be appreciated,
> ~Asfridhr
>

On Oct 28, 2010, at 3:48 AM, xina007eu wrote:

> Hi Asfridhr,
>
> the tunic of St Francis of Assisi that can be seen in the basilica at Assisi
has been patched multiple times, and I think different stitches were used. I
remember reading that some of the pieces seem to have come from the tunic of St
Clare, and that these patches are sewn on with a special stitch, but I can't
find the reference at the moment

You're probably thinking of the article on those garments in:

Flury-Lemberg, Mechthild.  1988.  Textile Conservation and Research.  Schriften
der Abegg-Stiftung, Bern.

Tangwystyl

Isn't there a story that Francis wished his robe to be made of patches,
as a token of humility?

Or am I confused with someone else?

Arlys

--- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, CLEY <cley56@...> wrote:
>
> Isn't there a story that Francis wished his robe to be made of patches,
> as a token of humility?
>
> Or am I confused with someone else?

Buddhist priests wear a patchwork mantle called a kesa (Japanese), jiasha
(Chinese) or kasaya (Sanskrit). Originally pieced from dirty rags, they
eventually became far more opulent as donors gifted temples with silks belonging
to deceased relatives. At least one description I've read seems to indicate that
the act of constructing a kesa from many small pieces was considered a
devotional exercise.

Ironically, when I started looking for images to post, I discovered that the
Kyoto National Museum currently has an exhibition on kesa:
http://www.kyohaku.go.jp/eng/tokubetsu/101009/tokubetsu.html
If you scroll down, the kesa shown at the bottom of the article is pieced from
silk and gold brocade.

(Pieced garments also became fashionable in 16th century Japan. A number of
surviving robes from that period are either pieced or decorated to look as if
they are pieced from alternating blocks of fabric. There's also at least one
example that bears an uncanny resemblance to a "crazy quilt.")

Saionji no Hana
West Kingdom

<<snip>>
My first response, upon reading
> Asfridhr's speculation was to say, "no, on the inside!" because that is the
> most common method I learned for darning/patching frayed fabric.
<<snip>>

I found a mention of an item patched on the inside-- one of the hoods from
Viking Age Dublin.
E. Wincott Heckett. 2003. "Viking Age Headcoverings from Dublin" (Dublin: Royal
Irish Academy")
pp. 44, 46:
"In wool cap DHC32 (Pl. VII, Fig. 52) a large patch has been sewn to the inside
of the right-hand part. The sides of the patch have been turned under and it has
been slip-stitched to the inside of the cap. If the patch had been put on to
over a hole, placing it like this on the inside would leave the rough edges of
the tear exposed to view on the outside, which is contrary to usual sewing
practice. Placing the patch as it is means that the smooth surface would have
been against the wearer's ear.  This may suggest that the patch was put on to
provide extra protection and warmth, or to strengthen a threadbare rather than a
torn area. It may also be that it was unimportant that ragged edges were left on
the outside. This would be true if the cap was worn under another headcovering
or indeed as a nightcap."

There are other patches in there, too, but I thought this particular one on the
inside might be interesting as a possible exception to the rule. :)

~Asfridhr

This page says the site should go live in 2010, but it's still in the
beta version. It's a great idea!

"The Bibliographica Textilia Historiae database is a free, open-access,
searchable database based on the research library and documentation of
the Center For Social Research on Old Textiles [CSROT], a project of the
Stichting Egress Foundation, Amsterdam. "

<http://egressfoundation.net/egress/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id\
=72&Itemid=345>

Samia

I was pointed to a YouTube video page I'd never seen before and some of
these are just too good not to share.

"Beowulf": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiBaSqO7n9U

"The Vikings" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIvJ2P0giVc

"William the Conqueror": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ8A5gRe_Dw


(Be very careful - the other videos from the group about other historical
topics are *highly* addictive and have already eaten more than a couple of
hours of my morning.)


Hrothny
--
'Many are chosen few are Pict.' - Gail Whitehouse

MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our many members who receive their list-mail in
digest form, we request that you not top post and delete any portion of a
previous message that does not require repetition. Thank you. Saionji no Hana,
Pacific Timezone Moderator.

REPEATED MESSAGE DELETED
They are additive...after you watch William the Conqueror, here is the test:
What year was the Battle of Hastings?  You will now know it forever......'Sew
it, girl'.

Cheers,
Madame du Pont
Shire de Tymberhavene  (Southern Oregon on the coast where it is snowing...this
is not a snow place, everything is cancelled today.)
Kingdom d'An Tir

Evening, all!

I have just finished a large commission for a client and would like to analyze
the parts that went well and the parts that could have gone better for your
input.

The criteria for the gown was that it needed to be relatively light, with ease
of movement since the client is a dancer and musician.  She wanted to be able to
dress herself and she wanted something from the mid 16th century but with slim
sleeves, a soft body and no farthingale.  We narrowed it down to Italian and
mainly used a 1560 Maroni and the 1560 Crimson Pisa dress for a starting place. 
(I have posted the painting and a photo of the Pisa dress in a folder called
Analysis of a 16th Century Italian Gown.)

Starting on the inside, I used Drea Lead's smock generator and made a linen
chemise using 3.2 oz. linen from fabric.com.  It is good fabric, but I find it a
bit too sheer and tending to pull out of square.  (I posted a picture of the
chemise in the folder.)

I edged the neck with a handkerchief hem.  Because the neckline of the gown is
so close to the shoulders, I felt the chemise slipped off her shoulders too
much.  She did not want the chemise to show and this may be the problem because
so many of them did show in this time period, hence being a smaller
circumference neckline.

I used pearl buttons on the cuffs with ribbon loops.  They were not authentic
for the time period but I knew she would not want to deal with ties.

All seams were French seams, which can work on gores and gussets if planned
carefully.

So my first questions are 1) Do you have a favorite place to purchase good
chemise linen?  What kind do you like best?
2) Is there a way to deal with a chemise neckline that slips down too much?
3) Do you have any other wrist closure suggestions that are easy to use.

Thanks for all your help!  I will post about the partlet next.

Jennifer

On Dec 10, 2010, at 8:20 PM, Jennifer wrote:
> I used Drea Lead's smock generator


I've not heard of this. It sounds quite useful. Is this an
application? A website? A technique you learned in a class? Is this
something which can be shared with the others of us who perhaps have
not heard of it? Or am I the only one who hadn't? Thanks!
--
                                     Auf wiedersehen!
Michael
    ______________________________________________________
    "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."

    "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
    of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
    women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"

    "..No."

    "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"

                                     -Real Genius

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Michael Hurley <mephit@...> wrote:

>    On Dec 10, 2010, at 8:20 PM, Jennifer wrote:
> > I used Drea Lead's smock generator
>
> I've not heard of this. It sounds quite useful. Is this an
> application? A website? A technique you learned in a class? Is this
> something which can be shared with the others of us who perhaps have
> not heard of it? Or am I the only one who hadn't? Thanks!
>

I hadn't either, but I found this:

http://www.elizabethancostume.net/smockpat/

Is that what is being referred to?

-Ii


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]