In case anyone wonders why BKA started his own group:

...Things in the physical world moved along and I was instructed on
several occasions to start my own meditation society.  I was
comfortable to be a group meditation leader for Kirpal Singh and was
not anxious to start teaching on my own.  I was very reluctant to
form my own society and kept putting it off.  Then I had a very
intense experience while at work.

I was working at the time for the Humboldt County Agriculture
Department.  I was part of a crew of men that maintained the right of
way, as it pertained to weeds and bushes, along the county roads.  On
this particular day I was working on a truck that was set up to
spray, for the purpose of killing it, the weeds and brush along a
river bank.  We had a forty-foot steel boom attached to the front of
the truck to make spraying the weeds easier.  We had put the boom up
to go through a couple of gates and all forty feet of it was straight
up when we tangled with some power transmission lines.  There were a
few very poignant moments between hearing the buzzing of our booms
contact with the power lines, my figuring out what was wrong, and
getting the truck clear of the very dangerous problem.  It was a very
close call.

I went home that evening and went straight up to my room to
meditate.  In meditation I went up to my contact in the bright silver-
blue-white light and said, "What was the deal with almost getting
killed today?"

Immediately, and very strongly, the words came into my mind: "IF YOU
ARE NOT GOING TO TEACH, THERE IS NO POINT IN STAYING'.

I thought about this for a few minutes and then replied, "I did not
realize you were this serious about it."

So in 1969 I started The Eureka Society.

Exerpt from 'Mount Shasta - The Vital Essence'
By Bruce K. Avenell

Thank you curious_yang, both for the address and the suggestion.

I used google too, but MSAC is just not specific enough.

As I said, BKA just picked up '2' without consciously trying to go
anywhere.  He rather thought it was too simple, but no harm in
mentioning it.

--- In Audinometry@y..., "curious_yang" <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
> Jen, please put http:// before the url of www.eurakasociety.com
http://www.eurakasociety.com
>
> Dave's addy is avaible on the internet;
>  what searchengin do you use? I like
> google here it is i know he will not
> mind me posting it <grin> I thought the
> number is a 4 digits one...
>
> MSAC Philosophy Group
> Mount San Antonio College
> 1100 N. Grand Avenue
> Walnut, California 91789
> Phone: 909 594-5611 (4593)
> http://vclass.mtsac.edu:940/dlane/masterindex.htm
>
>
> --- In Audinometry@y..., "meridian1957" <avenelljen@a...> wrote:
> > I entered MSAC in mapquest, as you suggested, and it required
more
> > information.  I did a search for MSAC and got both Maryland State
> > Arts Council and Mountain State Athletics Council, as well as
some
> > bargain shopping sites.
> >
> > Perhaps you could be a little more specific?
> >
> > I was talking to someone else who has some experience with astral
> > projection, and his opinion was that, with all due respect, you
do
> > not understand the medium and therefore your challenge is not a
valid
> > one.  You are assuming that a person would be looking at the
physical
> > world from the astral one.  It was his opinion that the paper you
> > have the number written on might very well not have a
corresponding
> > presence in the astral.  If you read Dad's description of the
first
> > time he met a dragon you would notice that the mall seemed
deserted
> > astrally because the dragon had been eating people's astral
bodies.
> >
> > Astral projection also takes up a lot of energy.  When you leave
your
> > body you are running on 'battery power'.  After a while you run
down
> > and have to return to your body.
> >
> > I too would like to see some 'scientific' proof, however; I
believe
> > one would have to start with an understanding of the medium being
> > tested.  Perhaps I am wrong, but that seems to me to be
rudimentary
> > scientific thought.
> >
> > I am under the impression Dave, that your mind is already
completely
> > made up in this matter, in spite of the fact that a great deal of
> > information is lacking.  I rather think you have come to a
premature
> > conclusion based on a lack of information.  Do you think this may
be
> > possible?

Jen, please put http:// before the url of www.eurakasociety.com
http://www.eurakasociety.com

Dave's addy is avaible on the internet;
  what searchengin do you use? I like
google here it is i know he will not
mind me posting it <grin> I thought the
number is a 4 digits one...

MSAC Philosophy Group
Mount San Antonio College
1100 N. Grand Avenue
Walnut, California 91789
Phone: 909 594-5611 (4593)
http://vclass.mtsac.edu:940/dlane/masterindex.htm


--- In Audinometry@y..., "meridian1957" <avenelljen@a...> wrote:
> I entered MSAC in mapquest, as you suggested, and it required more
> information.  I did a search for MSAC and got both Maryland State
> Arts Council and Mountain State Athletics Council, as well as some
> bargain shopping sites.
>
> Perhaps you could be a little more specific?
>
> I was talking to someone else who has some experience with astral
> projection, and his opinion was that, with all due respect, you do
> not understand the medium and therefore your challenge is not a valid
> one.  You are assuming that a person would be looking at the physical
> world from the astral one.  It was his opinion that the paper you
> have the number written on might very well not have a corresponding
> presence in the astral.  If you read Dad's description of the first
> time he met a dragon you would notice that the mall seemed deserted
> astrally because the dragon had been eating people's astral bodies.
>
> Astral projection also takes up a lot of energy.  When you leave your
> body you are running on 'battery power'.  After a while you run down
> and have to return to your body.
>
> I too would like to see some 'scientific' proof, however; I believe
> one would have to start with an understanding of the medium being
> tested.  Perhaps I am wrong, but that seems to me to be rudimentary
> scientific thought.
>
> I am under the impression Dave, that your mind is already completely
> made up in this matter, in spite of the fact that a great deal of
> information is lacking.  I rather think you have come to a premature
> conclusion based on a lack of information.  Do you think this may be
> possible?

I entered MSAC in mapquest, as you suggested, and it required more
information.  I did a search for MSAC and got both Maryland State
Arts Council and Mountain State Athletics Council, as well as some
bargain shopping sites.

Perhaps you could be a little more specific?

I was talking to someone else who has some experience with astral
projection, and his opinion was that, with all due respect, you do
not understand the medium and therefore your challenge is not a valid
one.  You are assuming that a person would be looking at the physical
world from the astral one.  It was his opinion that the paper you
have the number written on might very well not have a corresponding
presence in the astral.  If you read Dad's description of the first
time he met a dragon you would notice that the mall seemed deserted
astrally because the dragon had been eating people's astral bodies.

Astral projection also takes up a lot of energy.  When you leave your
body you are running on 'battery power'.  After a while you run down
and have to return to your body.

I too would like to see some 'scientific' proof, however; I believe
one would have to start with an understanding of the medium being
tested.  Perhaps I am wrong, but that seems to me to be rudimentary
scientific thought.

I am under the impression Dave, that your mind is already completely
made up in this matter, in spite of the fact that a great deal of
information is lacking.  I rather think you have come to a premature
conclusion based on a lack of information.  Do you think this may be
possible?

Interesting.



--- In Audinometry@y..., "meridian1957" <avenelljen@a...> wrote:
> I was going to post something about how we have more in common with
> stars than other animals on this planet.  It's been a busy day so I
> haven't looked up anything in one of Dad's books.  But here goes.
>
> Dad once said, at a lecture he was giving, that it is possible to
> know what the stars know.  A woman got up and walked out in
disgust.
> Still, it is possible.
>
> Anyone who has read 'Black Elk Speaks' may remember that Black Elk
> said the Happy Hunting Grounds are on the sun.  He was right.  On
the
> next concrete level (can't fly or go through walls) up, the
> civilizations are on the suns.
>
> There are four auras.  One is like a glow around the body.  We call
> it the vital body.  The next is the cloud aura, which most people
are
> familiar with.  Then there is the bird-cage aura, which has bars,
and
> is kind of like the electro-magnetic field.  These bars spin.  This
> aura should be out from the spine about the distance your elbows
> would be if you put your hands on your hips.  You get your feeling
of
> personal space mainly from the birdcage aura.
>
> The fourth aura is your sun aura.  It looks rather like the bubble
> Glinda The Good rode in, in The Wizard of Oz.  Illnesses tend to
show
> up on your sun aura.  You can also project pictures onto it when
you
> focus your belief, and then believe that the picture is real,
because
> you see it.
>
> So Dad was thinking one day that if we have sun auras, could the
suns
> be like auras?  He checked one out and sure enough, there was a
very
> high-energy being in there.
>
> Most of us are high-energy beings trapped in a low-energy vehicle.
>
> It seems anything with an electro-magnetic field has consciousness.

--- In Audinometry@y..., "David Christopher Lane" <dlane5@h...> wrote:
> --- In Audinometry@y..., "Ratnagar Rao" <ratnagarrao@y...> wrote:
> > --- In Audinometry@y..., "meridian1957" <avenelljen@a...> wrote:
> > > I spoke to Dad about David Lane's test a few minutes ago.
> Without
> > > making the effort to consciously go over there, he was picking
up
> > on
> > > the number '2'.
> >
> > Dave, is it 2? I thought it was multi-digit, so the probability
of
> > randomly guessing would be low, e.g., one in 99,999 for a five
> digit
> > number.
> >
> > >
> > > Other than that, he told me that he hasn't done low level
> > projection
> > > in a very long time.  He said it was like being good at
baseball
> > but
> > > not basketball.  It's a different set of muscles.  You could
> > develop
> > > those muscles, but do you want to take the time and energy to
do
> so?
> >
> > Why wouldn't he want to?  It would go a long way toward proving
> > something that many people have labored for decades
unsuccessfully
> to
> > prove, and would greatly increase acceptance of his life-work.
This
> > is hardly trivial.
> >
> > >
> > > He also feels that the response probably wouldn't be worth the
> > > effort.  He could use the same amount of energy to do other
> things
> > > that are more important,
> >
> > Really? What other things?
> >
> > This is the same excuse Michael Martin gave in one of his
> demurrals,
> > but his time is clearly not filled with amazing and heroic
actions
> > that would reasonably take precedence.
> >
> > How much energy is this thought to take, anyway?
> >
> > > and even were he to pass this test it
> > > probably wouldn't impress Dave Lane or those who are of his
frame
> > of
> > > mind.
> >
> > This appears to me to be precisely the opposite of the actual
case.
> > On what evidence has he made this apparently firm conclusion? Is
he
> > reading minds?
> >
> > > It tends to be useless to try to change the mind of people who
> > > have theirs minds made up.
> >
> > These less than convincing excuses, including flat statements of
> > certainty about whose minds are made up, on the basis of no
> evidence,
> > are difficult to distinguish from the rhetoric of one who has no
> > capability of performing the feat in question and does not wish
to
> > face reality by trying and failing.
> >
> > > However, BKA does have a counter-offer.  We have been working
on
> > > harmonic structures and have developed devices that are pretty
> much
> > > guaranteed to give a person a spiritual experience.  Dad is
> sending
> > > me something he's written to post here regarding these.  He is
> > > willing to take Dave Lane and two other people through them,
> three
> > > times (we accumulate a lot of spiritual garbage and it takes a
> > couple
> > > of times at least to clear it off), over a period of three
days,
> > free
> > > of charge. One of these spots is already spoken for, so that
> leaves
> > > one more spot that is open.
> > >
> > > There are two places harmonic devices have been set up.  One is
> > near
> > > Austin, Texas and the other is at Flagstaff, Arizona.
> > >
> > > So, is David Lane willing to participate in this little
adventure?
> >
> > If David Lane or anyone else reported a positive or even
> > extraordinary experience with one of these devices, that
> information
> > would do little or nothing to resolve the issue under discussion,
> > that of the objective reality of inner experiences.
>
>
> Very good point, Rat.
>
> Testimonals are infinite, apparently.
>
> Verifiable evidence, under heavily scrutnized conditions, is rare,
if
> not completely absent.
>
> No, the number is not "2."

How about BKA's offer David?  I take it you aren't interested?

--- In Audinometry@y..., "Ratnagar Rao" <ratnagarrao@y...> wrote:
> --- In Audinometry@y..., "meridian1957" <avenelljen@a...> wrote:
> > I spoke to Dad about David Lane's test a few minutes ago.
Without
> > making the effort to consciously go over there, he was picking up
> on
> > the number '2'.
>
> Dave, is it 2? I thought it was multi-digit, so the probability of
> randomly guessing would be low, e.g., one in 99,999 for a five
digit
> number.
>
> >
> > Other than that, he told me that he hasn't done low level
> projection
> > in a very long time.  He said it was like being good at baseball
> but
> > not basketball.  It's a different set of muscles.  You could
> develop
> > those muscles, but do you want to take the time and energy to do
so?
>
> Why wouldn't he want to?  It would go a long way toward proving
> something that many people have labored for decades unsuccessfully
to
> prove, and would greatly increase acceptance of his life-work. This
> is hardly trivial.
>
> >
> > He also feels that the response probably wouldn't be worth the
> > effort.  He could use the same amount of energy to do other
things
> > that are more important,
>
> Really? What other things?
>
> This is the same excuse Michael Martin gave in one of his
demurrals,
> but his time is clearly not filled with amazing and heroic actions
> that would reasonably take precedence.
>
> How much energy is this thought to take, anyway?
>
> > and even were he to pass this test it
> > probably wouldn't impress Dave Lane or those who are of his frame
> of
> > mind.
>
> This appears to me to be precisely the opposite of the actual case.
> On what evidence has he made this apparently firm conclusion? Is he
> reading minds?
>
> > It tends to be useless to try to change the mind of people who
> > have theirs minds made up.
>
> These less than convincing excuses, including flat statements of
> certainty about whose minds are made up, on the basis of no
evidence,
> are difficult to distinguish from the rhetoric of one who has no
> capability of performing the feat in question and does not wish to
> face reality by trying and failing.
>
> > However, BKA does have a counter-offer.  We have been working on
> > harmonic structures and have developed devices that are pretty
much
> > guaranteed to give a person a spiritual experience.  Dad is
sending
> > me something he's written to post here regarding these.  He is
> > willing to take Dave Lane and two other people through them,
three
> > times (we accumulate a lot of spiritual garbage and it takes a
> couple
> > of times at least to clear it off), over a period of three days,
> free
> > of charge. One of these spots is already spoken for, so that
leaves
> > one more spot that is open.
> >
> > There are two places harmonic devices have been set up.  One is
> near
> > Austin, Texas and the other is at Flagstaff, Arizona.
> >
> > So, is David Lane willing to participate in this little adventure?
>
> If David Lane or anyone else reported a positive or even
> extraordinary experience with one of these devices, that
information
> would do little or nothing to resolve the issue under discussion,
> that of the objective reality of inner experiences.


Very good point, Rat.

Testimonals are infinite, apparently.

Verifiable evidence, under heavily scrutnized conditions, is rare, if
not completely absent.

No, the number is not "2."

I was going to post something about how we have more in common with
stars than other animals on this planet.  It's been a busy day so I
haven't looked up anything in one of Dad's books.  But here goes.

Dad once said, at a lecture he was giving, that it is possible to
know what the stars know.  A woman got up and walked out in disgust.
Still, it is possible.

Anyone who has read 'Black Elk Speaks' may remember that Black Elk
said the Happy Hunting Grounds are on the sun.  He was right.  On the
next concrete level (can't fly or go through walls) up, the
civilizations are on the suns.

There are four auras.  One is like a glow around the body.  We call
it the vital body.  The next is the cloud aura, which most people are
familiar with.  Then there is the bird-cage aura, which has bars, and
is kind of like the electro-magnetic field.  These bars spin.  This
aura should be out from the spine about the distance your elbows
would be if you put your hands on your hips.  You get your feeling of
personal space mainly from the birdcage aura.

The fourth aura is your sun aura.  It looks rather like the bubble
Glinda The Good rode in, in The Wizard of Oz.  Illnesses tend to show
up on your sun aura.  You can also project pictures onto it when you
focus your belief, and then believe that the picture is real, because
you see it.

So Dad was thinking one day that if we have sun auras, could the suns
be like auras?  He checked one out and sure enough, there was a very
high-energy being in there.

Most of us are high-energy beings trapped in a low-energy vehicle.

It seems anything with an electro-magnetic field has consciousness.

I agree with your points.  I admit that I'd like him to do it too.
But he knows more about these things than I do, and I don't like to
ask him to expend his spiritual energy.  Give him a chance to mull it
over.

Do you really think it would do any good?  People are amazing at
coming up with excuses as to why something worked.  I know BKA has
had experiences before where people witnessed something, told him how
amazing and wonderful he was, how they had been searching for him
forever, and then he never hears from them again.  So he's gotten a
bit jaded about that sort of thing.

If I told you some of the stories about what he does with his energy,
you would never believe me.  Not until you'd experienced some of it
yourself.

And I should think having a strong, concrete spiritual experience
would be worthwhile.  Think of it as research.  Or cosmic surfing.

--- In Audinometry@y..., "Ratnagar Rao" <ratnagarrao@y...> wrote:
> --- In Audinometry@y..., "meridian1957" <avenelljen@a...> wrote:
> > I spoke to Dad about David Lane's test a few minutes ago.
Without
> > making the effort to consciously go over there, he was picking up
> on
> > the number '2'.
>
> Dave, is it 2? I thought it was multi-digit, so the probability of
> randomly guessing would be low, e.g., one in 99,999 for a five
digit
> number.
>
> >
> > Other than that, he told me that he hasn't done low level
> projection
> > in a very long time.  He said it was like being good at baseball
> but
> > not basketball.  It's a different set of muscles.  You could
> develop
> > those muscles, but do you want to take the time and energy to do
so?
>
> Why wouldn't he want to?  It would go a long way toward proving
> something that many people have labored for decades unsuccessfully
to
> prove, and would greatly increase acceptance of his life-work. This
> is hardly trivial.
>
> >
> > He also feels that the response probably wouldn't be worth the
> > effort.  He could use the same amount of energy to do other
things
> > that are more important,
>
> Really? What other things?
>
> This is the same excuse Michael Martin gave in one of his
demurrals,
> but his time is clearly not filled with amazing and heroic actions
> that would reasonably take precedence.
>
> How much energy is this thought to take, anyway?
>
> > and even were he to pass this test it
> > probably wouldn't impress Dave Lane or those who are of his frame
> of
> > mind.
>
> This appears to me to be precisely the opposite of the actual case.
> On what evidence has he made this apparently firm conclusion? Is he
> reading minds?
>
> > It tends to be useless to try to change the mind of people who
> > have theirs minds made up.
>
> These less than convincing excuses, including flat statements of
> certainty about whose minds are made up, on the basis of no
evidence,
> are difficult to distinguish from the rhetoric of one who has no
> capability of performing the feat in question and does not wish to
> face reality by trying and failing.
>
> > However, BKA does have a counter-offer.  We have been working on
> > harmonic structures and have developed devices that are pretty
much
> > guaranteed to give a person a spiritual experience.  Dad is
sending
> > me something he's written to post here regarding these.  He is
> > willing to take Dave Lane and two other people through them,
three
> > times (we accumulate a lot of spiritual garbage and it takes a
> couple
> > of times at least to clear it off), over a period of three days,
> free
> > of charge. One of these spots is already spoken for, so that
leaves
> > one more spot that is open.
> >
> > There are two places harmonic devices have been set up.  One is
> near
> > Austin, Texas and the other is at Flagstaff, Arizona.
> >
> > So, is David Lane willing to participate in this little adventure?
>
> If David Lane or anyone else reported a positive or even
> extraordinary experience with one of these devices, that
information
> would do little or nothing to resolve the issue under discussion,
> that of the objective reality of inner experiences.

Hi izitfee,

BKA will be 73 in January.

BKA is supported by The Eureka Society (no, he doesn't have a mansion
and a four-car garage).  Any one else working for ES is a volunteer.

I have a small construction business with my husband.  We do drywall
for high end custom homes.  Don't think that makes us rich though.
We've only been in business for two years and are still struggling.

BKA, as I stated above, is supported by the ES.  His time is much too
valuable to us for us to share him with anyone else. :)

We are not vegetarians.  We recommend that students keep a diary of
what they eat and see how it affects their meditations.  I eat eggs
pretty often, especially scrambled in a sandwich with mustard.
Mushrooms and chocolate have been found to have a pretty universally
negative affect, drat it all.

--- In Audinometry@y..., "izitfree5960" <izitfree@h...> wrote:
> Hello Meridian,
> I have some questions, coming from a curiosity standpoint (and not
> sarcasm).
>
> How old is BKA?
>
> Does Bruce, you or any of the other teachers receive a salary from
> the Eureka Society?
>
> What is your primary source of income (what kind of work do you do)?
>
> What is BKA's primary source of income?
>
> Do you advocate a vegetarian diet? What about eggs?
>
> Thanks. I have more comments but have to go now.
>
> MAB

--- In Audinometry@y..., "meridian1957" <avenelljen@a...> wrote:
> I spoke to Dad about David Lane's test a few minutes ago.  Without
> making the effort to consciously go over there, he was picking up
on
> the number '2'.

Dave, is it 2? I thought it was multi-digit, so the probability of
randomly guessing would be low, e.g., one in 99,999 for a five digit
number.

>
> Other than that, he told me that he hasn't done low level
projection
> in a very long time.  He said it was like being good at baseball
but
> not basketball.  It's a different set of muscles.  You could
develop
> those muscles, but do you want to take the time and energy to do so?

Why wouldn't he want to?  It would go a long way toward proving
something that many people have labored for decades unsuccessfully to
prove, and would greatly increase acceptance of his life-work. This
is hardly trivial.

>
> He also feels that the response probably wouldn't be worth the
> effort.  He could use the same amount of energy to do other things
> that are more important,

Really? What other things?

This is the same excuse Michael Martin gave in one of his demurrals,
but his time is clearly not filled with amazing and heroic actions
that would reasonably take precedence.

How much energy is this thought to take, anyway?

> and even were he to pass this test it
> probably wouldn't impress Dave Lane or those who are of his frame
of
> mind.

This appears to me to be precisely the opposite of the actual case.
On what evidence has he made this apparently firm conclusion? Is he
reading minds?

> It tends to be useless to try to change the mind of people who
> have theirs minds made up.

These less than convincing excuses, including flat statements of
certainty about whose minds are made up, on the basis of no evidence,
are difficult to distinguish from the rhetoric of one who has no
capability of performing the feat in question and does not wish to
face reality by trying and failing.

> However, BKA does have a counter-offer.  We have been working on
> harmonic structures and have developed devices that are pretty much
> guaranteed to give a person a spiritual experience.  Dad is sending
> me something he's written to post here regarding these.  He is
> willing to take Dave Lane and two other people through them, three
> times (we accumulate a lot of spiritual garbage and it takes a
couple
> of times at least to clear it off), over a period of three days,
free
> of charge. One of these spots is already spoken for, so that leaves
> one more spot that is open.
>
> There are two places harmonic devices have been set up.  One is
near
> Austin, Texas and the other is at Flagstaff, Arizona.
>
> So, is David Lane willing to participate in this little adventure?

If David Lane or anyone else reported a positive or even
extraordinary experience with one of these devices, that information
would do little or nothing to resolve the issue under discussion,
that of the objective reality of inner experiences.

Hello Meridian,
I have some questions, coming from a curiosity standpoint (and not
sarcasm).

How old is BKA?

Does Bruce, you or any of the other teachers receive a salary from
the Eureka Society?

What is your primary source of income (what kind of work do you do)?

What is BKA's primary source of income?

Do you advocate a vegetarian diet? What about eggs?

Thanks. I have more comments but have to go now.

MAB

I'm not sure.  I know he had a sight experience when he was initiated
by Kirpal.  He's suppose to be getting an internet connection some
time soon and will be visiting this sight.  You'll be able to ask him
yourself then.

--- In Audinometry@y..., "berthathegood" <berthathegood@y...> wrote:
> Did Bruce develop his ability to "see within" through the sant mat
> sound current method as taught by Kirpal Singh?
>
>
>
> --- In Audinometry@y..., "meridian1957" <avenelljen@a...> wrote:
> > I didn't see an inner world as a kid...until I started meditating.
> >
> > Dad didn't give any thought to dragons, until he first met one.
> > Here's his story:
> >
> > A friend of mine, who worked at a store in the mall in Eureka,
> > California, called me on the phone and said, "Something weird is
> > going on at the mall today.  People are just walking around in a
> daze
> > and absolutely nothing's happening.  Would you come over and see
> what
> > it's all about?"  And so I did.
> >
> > As I parked my car in the parking lot on the Sears side of the
> Mall,
> > I realized that if the problem had been physical my friend would
> have
> > been able to tell me so.  Therefore, the problem was not a
physical
> > world problem, and so I parked the car and then parked the
physical
> > body and getting out of both, proceeded into the Sears store at
the
> > mall.  Well, there was absolutely nobody in the store.  When I
had
> > parked the car I had seen people going in and coming out, but now
> in
> > projection there was nobody there.  This was strange, so I
> proceeded,
> > as though walking, out into the mall.  It happened very, very
> > quickly.  I saw the Dragon (mind you I did not believe in
Dragons,
> > but he was there and at the moment it didn't matter whether I
> > believed or not.) and in that instant, I knew that he knew that I
> had
> > seen him.  And I knew that he knew that I knew...etc.  He had
been
> > eating the astral bodies of the people in the mall, thus leaving
> the
> > people at the mall with a very vague and confused physical
> feeling.
> > This wasn't a major offence because a living physical body will
> grow
> > back a lost astral vehicle in three days to a week or so,
depending
> > on the amount of conscious energy it has.  However,
> >
> > I EXPLAINED TO HIM THAT THIS WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA.
> >
> > In the instant that our eyes met and recognition occurred, he
made
> > himself bigger and went for altitude.  I knew that game well and
> > matched him, charging my will power as I stayed with him.  I
> > instinctively knew that as I did that, to him I grew denser and
> more
> > clearly defined.  When we were about three hundred feet tall,
with
> my
> > intent, I grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and threw him far
> out
> > into the Pacific Ocean, a hundred and fifty miles or so.  The
mall
> > we had been in was about five miles from the coast.
> >
> > Having taken care of the problem at the mall, I turned around
> > to...and was facing about eight more Dragons who weren't too keen
> > about my treatment of their friend (now bathing in solitude).
> Again
> > there was a race for altitude, and I needed all I had learned
> flying
> > a scout aircraft in WW I, only a lifetime ago - maneuver, attack,
> > evade, attack, evade, run your mind faster, faster, faster, much
> > faster.  Velocity is the very essence of life and he who runs the
> > fastest in his mind lives the longest.  As I came up to speed, I
> > began my attacks, but I had yet to remember that all I had
learned
> > about this very game, I had learned from DRAGONS.  The zooming,
> > turning, climbing, diving, attack and evade - all as though I
were
> > fighting Spads and Camels again -- would have been a lot of fun
> > except at the moment I thought we were serious.  It was only a
> game,
> > but a very serious game.  Then one came at me fitter with a
> spinning
> > collar of what looked like turbine blades and he was intent on
> > cutting me to bits with it, but I was denser than he was and I
put
> my
> > sword into the spinning blades and knocked them all off and
> proceeded
> > to...but it was over.
> >
> > DRAGON MASTER
> >
> > Three thousand feet in the air, they lined up in front of me and
in
> > their peace overtures petitioned that they might be allowed a
place
> > to reside on this planet.
> >
> > I assigned them areas on the planet where they might reside, an
> then
> > requested that two be assigned to stay near me and be
ambassadors.
> > And it was this way that Swagg and Alibastis came to live with
> > me...AND LIFE BEGAN AGAIN.
> >
> > BEWARE OF THE DRAGON,
> > WHEN AND WHERE YOU FIND HIM.
> > IT IS HE
> > WHO HAS FOUND YOU.
> >
> > Exerpt from "The Road To Life"
> > By Bruce K. Avenell
> > awaiting publication
> >
> > As for stars, let's save that for tomorrow. :)
> >
> > Jen
> > --- In Audinometry@y..., "curious_yang" <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
> > > Jen, can you remember: as a kid you saw
> > >  an inner-world how did it come about;
> > >  before you met the dragon did your
> > > dad tell you that you can meet one?
> > > --or it popped up and you told him about
> > >  it ..? [ just for curiosity how big
> > > was the dragon <grin> ? ]
> > >
> > > - what did you mean that we are closer
> > > to the stars ; what is the teaching in reference to this
notion /
> > than to
> > > animals..?
> > >
> > > ~~~~

The fact is that neither Bertha nor David Lane understand how these
things work.  Flying in an airplane is very simple because a lot of
other people put a lot of energy into making it available.  Try doing
it from scratch.

Sound current meditation is really all about energy management.  That
is partly why "The Wizard Of Earthsea" is on the Eureka Society
mailing list.  If you read the books you'd know that Ged had to learn
to use his powers wisely and conserve his energy.

I spoke to Dad about David Lane's test a few minutes ago.  Without
making the effort to consciously go over there, he was picking up on
the number '2'.

Other than that, he told me that he hasn't done low level projection
in a very long time.  He said it was like being good at baseball but
not basketball.  It's a different set of muscles.  You could develop
those muscles, but do you want to take the time and energy to do so?

He also feels that the response probably wouldn't be worth the
effort.  He could use the same amount of energy to do other things
that are more important, and even were he to pass this test it
probably wouldn't impress Dave Lane or those who are of his frame of
mind.  It tends to be useless to try to change the mind of people who
have theirs minds made up.

However, BKA does have a counter-offer.  We have been working on
harmonic structures and have developed devices that are pretty much
guaranteed to give a person a spiritual experience.  Dad is sending
me something he's written to post here regarding these.  He is
willing to take Dave Lane and two other people through them, three
times (we accumulate a lot of spiritual garbage and it takes a couple
of times at least to clear it off), over a period of three days, free
of charge. One of these spots is already spoken for, so that leaves
one more spot that is open.

There are two places harmonic devices have been set up.  One is near
Austin, Texas and the other is at Flagstaff, Arizona.

So, is David Lane willing to participate in this little adventure?

--- In Audinometry@y..., "berthathegood" <berthathegood@y...> wrote:
> Yes...it seems easier to make claims for a higher reality from this
> reality than use a higher reality to document or corroborate even
> very simple things in this one (such as a number under your desk).
>
>
>
> --- In Audinometry@y..., "David Christopher Lane" <dlane5@h...>
wrote:
> > There can be a whole series of tests, so why not try the
experiment
> > yourself.
> >
> > It would at least be a start.
> >
> > The problem with mystics claiming that they "know" something from
> > inner experiences is that they always fall short when such
> > experiments are under controlled circumstances.
> >
> > You can simply do a MAP QUEST for directions to MSAC and then you
> can
> > access the MSAC website for a map of the campus and one can
locate
> > the office by its number 16-17/F.
> >
> > The fact remains that mystics don't pass tests of this sort.
> >
> > So see if your father is willing to be tested.

Did Bruce develop his ability to "see within" through the sant mat
sound current method as taught by Kirpal Singh?



--- In Audinometry@y..., "meridian1957" <avenelljen@a...> wrote:
> I didn't see an inner world as a kid...until I started meditating.
>
> Dad didn't give any thought to dragons, until he first met one.
> Here's his story:
>
> A friend of mine, who worked at a store in the mall in Eureka,
> California, called me on the phone and said, "Something weird is
> going on at the mall today.  People are just walking around in a
daze
> and absolutely nothing's happening.  Would you come over and see
what
> it's all about?"  And so I did.
>
> As I parked my car in the parking lot on the Sears side of the
Mall,
> I realized that if the problem had been physical my friend would
have
> been able to tell me so.  Therefore, the problem was not a physical
> world problem, and so I parked the car and then parked the physical
> body and getting out of both, proceeded into the Sears store at the
> mall.  Well, there was absolutely nobody in the store.  When I had
> parked the car I had seen people going in and coming out, but now
in
> projection there was nobody there.  This was strange, so I
proceeded,
> as though walking, out into the mall.  It happened very, very
> quickly.  I saw the Dragon (mind you I did not believe in Dragons,
> but he was there and at the moment it didn't matter whether I
> believed or not.) and in that instant, I knew that he knew that I
had
> seen him.  And I knew that he knew that I knew...etc.  He had been
> eating the astral bodies of the people in the mall, thus leaving
the
> people at the mall with a very vague and confused physical
feeling.
> This wasn't a major offence because a living physical body will
grow
> back a lost astral vehicle in three days to a week or so, depending
> on the amount of conscious energy it has.  However,
>
> I EXPLAINED TO HIM THAT THIS WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA.
>
> In the instant that our eyes met and recognition occurred, he made
> himself bigger and went for altitude.  I knew that game well and
> matched him, charging my will power as I stayed with him.  I
> instinctively knew that as I did that, to him I grew denser and
more
> clearly defined.  When we were about three hundred feet tall, with
my
> intent, I grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and threw him far
out
> into the Pacific Ocean, a hundred and fifty miles or so.  The mall
> we had been in was about five miles from the coast.
>
> Having taken care of the problem at the mall, I turned around
> to...and was facing about eight more Dragons who weren't too keen
> about my treatment of their friend (now bathing in solitude).
Again
> there was a race for altitude, and I needed all I had learned
flying
> a scout aircraft in WW I, only a lifetime ago - maneuver, attack,
> evade, attack, evade, run your mind faster, faster, faster, much
> faster.  Velocity is the very essence of life and he who runs the
> fastest in his mind lives the longest.  As I came up to speed, I
> began my attacks, but I had yet to remember that all I had learned
> about this very game, I had learned from DRAGONS.  The zooming,
> turning, climbing, diving, attack and evade - all as though I were
> fighting Spads and Camels again -- would have been a lot of fun
> except at the moment I thought we were serious.  It was only a
game,
> but a very serious game.  Then one came at me fitter with a
spinning
> collar of what looked like turbine blades and he was intent on
> cutting me to bits with it, but I was denser than he was and I put
my
> sword into the spinning blades and knocked them all off and
proceeded
> to...but it was over.
>
> DRAGON MASTER
>
> Three thousand feet in the air, they lined up in front of me and in
> their peace overtures petitioned that they might be allowed a place
> to reside on this planet.
>
> I assigned them areas on the planet where they might reside, an
then
> requested that two be assigned to stay near me and be ambassadors.
> And it was this way that Swagg and Alibastis came to live with
> me...AND LIFE BEGAN AGAIN.
>
> BEWARE OF THE DRAGON,
> WHEN AND WHERE YOU FIND HIM.
> IT IS HE
> WHO HAS FOUND YOU.
>
> Exerpt from "The Road To Life"
> By Bruce K. Avenell
> awaiting publication
>
> As for stars, let's save that for tomorrow. :)
>
> Jen
> --- In Audinometry@y..., "curious_yang" <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
> > Jen, can you remember: as a kid you saw
> >  an inner-world how did it come about;
> >  before you met the dragon did your
> > dad tell you that you can meet one?
> > --or it popped up and you told him about
> >  it ..? [ just for curiosity how big
> > was the dragon <grin> ? ]
> >
> > - what did you mean that we are closer
> > to the stars ; what is the teaching in reference to this notion /
> than to
> > animals..?
> >
> > ~~~~

Yes...it seems easier to make claims for a higher reality from this
reality than use a higher reality to document or corroborate even
very simple things in this one (such as a number under your desk).



--- In Audinometry@y..., "David Christopher Lane" <dlane5@h...> wrote:
> There can be a whole series of tests, so why not try the experiment
> yourself.
>
> It would at least be a start.
>
> The problem with mystics claiming that they "know" something from
> inner experiences is that they always fall short when such
> experiments are under controlled circumstances.
>
> You can simply do a MAP QUEST for directions to MSAC and then you
can
> access the MSAC website for a map of the campus and one can locate
> the office by its number 16-17/F.
>
> The fact remains that mystics don't pass tests of this sort.
>
> So see if your father is willing to be tested.

There can be a whole series of tests, so why not try the experiment
yourself.

It would at least be a start.

The problem with mystics claiming that they "know" something from
inner experiences is that they always fall short when such
experiments are under controlled circumstances.

You can simply do a MAP QUEST for directions to MSAC and then you can
access the MSAC website for a map of the campus and one can locate
the office by its number 16-17/F.

The fact remains that mystics don't pass tests of this sort.

So see if your father is willing to be tested.

I talked to BKA (I feel a little silly calling him Dad all the time
in this sort of forum) about that this morning, as I was curious
too.  He said it could be a matter of relativity.  He had a very good
charge when he saw Kirpal.  These other meditators, considering that
they don't even know rudimentary aura control, could possibly have
had less energy than Kirpal did when they saw him.  After all, he was
still picking up charges from most of his students.

As to reading a number in David Lane's office, my understanding is
that first you would either have to know where the office is, or
preferably, you would need a recent picture of David Lane's face,
with the eyes open and looking at the camera, and then he would have
to be in the office, that would help you find the place.  Otherwise I
don't know what the problem would be.  But then, I don't get out
much.  I'll check with BKA and get back to you.

--- In Audinometry@y..., "Ratnagar Rao" <ratnagarrao@y...> wrote:
> I wonder if you can more directly address the issue raised by
Haarvi:
> whether "inner experiences" represent anything beyond the
subjective.
> If Bruce sees a Kirpal in sorry shape and Joe sees a Kirpal who is
a
> Radiant Being of Light leading him to high regions, then one might
> well wonder whether these inner visions are just projections of
one's
> own mind, not representing any reality common among people or
> extrinsic to one's own consciousness.
>
> A further exploration of this, and a very practical one, is the
issue
> of whether one can, through meditation, obtain information about
the
> physical world. David Lane has for years challenged anyone who
thinks
> he or she can do this to perform the simple feat of reading a
number
> written on a piece of paper in his office, and no one have been
able
> to.  Dave and I both each posed this challenge to Michael
> Martin, a some-time poster on Radhasoami Studies (currently posting
> under the name lackpurity) who claims to be a "Western Satguru" and
> the reincarnation of Jesus, Buddha and Kabir.
> Of course he demurred with the standard Sant Mat line about masters
> not performing miracles.
>
> The question of the reality of inner experiences is particularly
> significant when it comes to the matter of life after death,
because
> if these experiences are just explorations of one's own mind, they
> yield no actual data on survival after death despite the belief
they
> foster to the contrary, as one can see in the numerous books on
near-
> death experiences.
>
> The late Gopi Krishna of Kashmir, who wrote very signficiant books
on
> kundalini based on his own experiences, said that all inner visions
> of various planes, etc. were illusory figments of one's
imagination,
> appearing deceptively vivid to those whose kundalini has been
> awakened.
>
> From the way you addressed this issue, it sounds as if you have not
> fully addressed and dealt with it, and may not have resolved it.
>
> I would be interested in your thoughts, and those of Bruce.
>
>
> --- In Audinometry@y..., "meridian1957" <avenelljen@a...> wrote:
> > Everything is open to question.  "The mark of an educated mind is
> the
> > ability to entertain an idea without either accepting or denying
> > it".  I don't recall where I read that, but it has always stayed
> with
> > me.  You won't know the truth until you experience it for
> yourself.
> > It isn't a matter of luck as much as discipline and persistance.
> > Seems to me part of the persistance is to keep looking for a good
> > teacher who can help you make your discipline count.
> >
> > The point is to keep an open mind, take information in, and be
> aware
> > of what you really do know and what you don't know conclusively
yet.
> >
> > I also doubt how much experience those meditators have.  Like I
> keep
> > saying, none of them seem to know how to get beyond Sat Nam.
> >
> > --- In Audinometry@y..., "haarvi" <haarvi1@n...> wrote:
> > > Hi Meridian,
> > > I read an account you wrote for Radhasoami Studies about a
> > > conversation with your dad in which he spoke of meeting Kirpal
> > Singh
> > > on the inner.  He reports finding Kirpal in sad shape.  How are
> we
> > to
> > > evaluate this report? There are other reports of inner meetings
> > with
> > > Kirpal which contradict your dad's account. The idea of the
truth
> > > value of inner plane experience has for me been brought into
> > question
> > > particularly by the differing accounts brought back by
> experienced
> > > meditators giving news about the rightful successor to one or
> other
> > > of the Sant Mat gurus.  It would seem to be just about
impossible
> > to
> > > test these accounts by anyone who doesn't go inside.  And even
if
> > one
> > > were lucky enough to have inner access, why would we expect our
> own
> > > experiences to be any more real or telling of truth than those
of
> > > well meaning,sincere meditators who contradict each other?  And
> > would
> > > it not also be true that if this experience with Kirpal is open
> to
> > > question in a way which cannot be resolved, that a good deal if
> not
> > > all of the rest of the teachigs about the inner would also be
> open
> > to
> > > question?
> > > Harvey

I wonder if you can more directly address the issue raised by Haarvi:
whether "inner experiences" represent anything beyond the subjective.
If Bruce sees a Kirpal in sorry shape and Joe sees a Kirpal who is a
Radiant Being of Light leading him to high regions, then one might
well wonder whether these inner visions are just projections of one's
own mind, not representing any reality common among people or
extrinsic to one's own consciousness.

A further exploration of this, and a very practical one, is the issue
of whether one can, through meditation, obtain information about the
physical world. David Lane has for years challenged anyone who thinks
he or she can do this to perform the simple feat of reading a number
written on a piece of paper in his office, and no one have been able
to.  Dave and I both each posed this challenge to Michael
Martin, a some-time poster on Radhasoami Studies (currently posting
under the name lackpurity) who claims to be a "Western Satguru" and
the reincarnation of Jesus, Buddha and Kabir.
Of course he demurred with the standard Sant Mat line about masters
not performing miracles.

The question of the reality of inner experiences is particularly
significant when it comes to the matter of life after death, because
if these experiences are just explorations of one's own mind, they
yield no actual data on survival after death despite the belief they
foster to the contrary, as one can see in the numerous books on near-
death experiences.

The late Gopi Krishna of Kashmir, who wrote very signficiant books on
kundalini based on his own experiences, said that all inner visions
of various planes, etc. were illusory figments of one's imagination,
appearing deceptively vivid to those whose kundalini has been
awakened.

From the way you addressed this issue, it sounds as if you have not
fully addressed and dealt with it, and may not have resolved it.

I would be interested in your thoughts, and those of Bruce.


--- In Audinometry@y..., "meridian1957" <avenelljen@a...> wrote:
> Everything is open to question.  "The mark of an educated mind is
the
> ability to entertain an idea without either accepting or denying
> it".  I don't recall where I read that, but it has always stayed
with
> me.  You won't know the truth until you experience it for
yourself.
> It isn't a matter of luck as much as discipline and persistance.
> Seems to me part of the persistance is to keep looking for a good
> teacher who can help you make your discipline count.
>
> The point is to keep an open mind, take information in, and be
aware
> of what you really do know and what you don't know conclusively yet.
>
> I also doubt how much experience those meditators have.  Like I
keep
> saying, none of them seem to know how to get beyond Sat Nam.
>
> --- In Audinometry@y..., "haarvi" <haarvi1@n...> wrote:
> > Hi Meridian,
> > I read an account you wrote for Radhasoami Studies about a
> > conversation with your dad in which he spoke of meeting Kirpal
> Singh
> > on the inner.  He reports finding Kirpal in sad shape.  How are
we
> to
> > evaluate this report? There are other reports of inner meetings
> with
> > Kirpal which contradict your dad's account. The idea of the truth
> > value of inner plane experience has for me been brought into
> question
> > particularly by the differing accounts brought back by
experienced
> > meditators giving news about the rightful successor to one or
other
> > of the Sant Mat gurus.  It would seem to be just about impossible
> to
> > test these accounts by anyone who doesn't go inside.  And even if
> one
> > were lucky enough to have inner access, why would we expect our
own
> > experiences to be any more real or telling of truth than those of
> > well meaning,sincere meditators who contradict each other?  And
> would
> > it not also be true that if this experience with Kirpal is open
to
> > question in a way which cannot be resolved, that a good deal if
not
> > all of the rest of the teachigs about the inner would also be
open
> to
> > question?
> > Harvey

I didn't see an inner world as a kid...until I started meditating.

Dad didn't give any thought to dragons, until he first met one.
Here's his story:

A friend of mine, who worked at a store in the mall in Eureka,
California, called me on the phone and said, "Something weird is
going on at the mall today.  People are just walking around in a daze
and absolutely nothing's happening.  Would you come over and see what
it's all about?"  And so I did.

As I parked my car in the parking lot on the Sears side of the Mall,
I realized that if the problem had been physical my friend would have
been able to tell me so.  Therefore, the problem was not a physical
world problem, and so I parked the car and then parked the physical
body and getting out of both, proceeded into the Sears store at the
mall.  Well, there was absolutely nobody in the store.  When I had
parked the car I had seen people going in and coming out, but now in
projection there was nobody there.  This was strange, so I proceeded,
as though walking, out into the mall.  It happened very, very
quickly.  I saw the Dragon (mind you I did not believe in Dragons,
but he was there and at the moment it didn't matter whether I
believed or not.) and in that instant, I knew that he knew that I had
seen him.  And I knew that he knew that I knew...etc.  He had been
eating the astral bodies of the people in the mall, thus leaving the
people at the mall with a very vague and confused physical feeling.
This wasn't a major offence because a living physical body will grow
back a lost astral vehicle in three days to a week or so, depending
on the amount of conscious energy it has.  However,

I EXPLAINED TO HIM THAT THIS WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA.

In the instant that our eyes met and recognition occurred, he made
himself bigger and went for altitude.  I knew that game well and
matched him, charging my will power as I stayed with him.  I
instinctively knew that as I did that, to him I grew denser and more
clearly defined.  When we were about three hundred feet tall, with my
intent, I grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and threw him far out
into the Pacific Ocean, a hundred and fifty miles or so.  The mall
we had been in was about five miles from the coast.

Having taken care of the problem at the mall, I turned around
to...and was facing about eight more Dragons who weren't too keen
about my treatment of their friend (now bathing in solitude).  Again
there was a race for altitude, and I needed all I had learned flying
a scout aircraft in WW I, only a lifetime ago - maneuver, attack,
evade, attack, evade, run your mind faster, faster, faster, much
faster.  Velocity is the very essence of life and he who runs the
fastest in his mind lives the longest.  As I came up to speed, I
began my attacks, but I had yet to remember that all I had learned
about this very game, I had learned from DRAGONS.  The zooming,
turning, climbing, diving, attack and evade - all as though I were
fighting Spads and Camels again -- would have been a lot of fun
except at the moment I thought we were serious.  It was only a game,
but a very serious game.  Then one came at me fitter with a spinning
collar of what looked like turbine blades and he was intent on
cutting me to bits with it, but I was denser than he was and I put my
sword into the spinning blades and knocked them all off and proceeded
to...but it was over.

DRAGON MASTER

Three thousand feet in the air, they lined up in front of me and in
their peace overtures petitioned that they might be allowed a place
to reside on this planet.

I assigned them areas on the planet where they might reside, an then
requested that two be assigned to stay near me and be ambassadors.
And it was this way that Swagg and Alibastis came to live with
me...AND LIFE BEGAN AGAIN.

BEWARE OF THE DRAGON,
WHEN AND WHERE YOU FIND HIM.
IT IS HE
WHO HAS FOUND YOU.

Exerpt from "The Road To Life"
By Bruce K. Avenell
awaiting publication

As for stars, let's save that for tomorrow. :)

Jen
--- In Audinometry@y..., "curious_yang" <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
> Jen, can you remember: as a kid you saw
>  an inner-world how did it come about;
>  before you met the dragon did your
> dad tell you that you can meet one?
> --or it popped up and you told him about
>  it ..? [ just for curiosity how big
> was the dragon <grin> ? ]
>
> - what did you mean that we are closer
> to the stars ; what is the teaching in reference to this notion /
than to
> animals..?
>
> ~~~~

Jen, can you remember: as a kid you saw
  an inner-world how did it come about;
  before you met the dragon did your
dad tell you that you can meet one?
--or it popped up and you told him about
  it ..? [ just for curiosity how big
was the dragon <grin> ? ]

- what did you mean that we are closer
to the stars ; what is the teaching in reference to this notion / than to
animals..?

~~~~

"Audinometry is a practice that can greatly enrich your mind and
spirit, far beyond the boundaries of physical life.  Indeed, the
mental and spiritual wealth that the practice of Audinometry can
produce for you is the only wealth, from this life, that you can take
with you when the body can no longer hold your light of
consciousness.  You can know through your own, first hand, conscious
experience that life is eternal.

Not only is it possible to know that life is eternal, it is also
possible to move your consciousness into the eternal parts of your
being.  In fact, there are faculties in your being you may not even
know exist.  Moving consciousness allows you to live a much fuller
and much more rewarding life while you are still in residence in the
physical body.  Thus one is empowered to live dynamically and multi-
dimensionally within the every-day flow of reality.  You can do this
in your own life.

The human physical body lives on one physical level of our universe.
Our universe is actually both multi-level and multi-dimensional.  We
human beings are limited by the perceptions of our physical senses.
In reality, humans have corresponding physical-type bodies on each of
these levels.  For the most part they are asleep.  This is largely
because of the spiritual energy necessary to operate the multi-level
perception of the spiritual structures that are a part of every human
being.  The physical body focus has first call on the spiritual
energy necessary to power spiritual perception.  In fact, much closer
to the truth of our existence is that we are really spirit beings
caught in the low energy structures of the physical experience.
Physical human life is a spiritual labyrinth.  Each must find their
own way out of the labyrinth in order to open the avenue to a much
more real experience of life in this universe.

As spiritually energized consciousness moves into conscious life in
the universal community, there are many of these awakenings available
to the ardent seeker of the path to divine fullfillment.  Audinometry
is a systematic practice which uses the sound patterns in Om, or Aum,
often refered to as the sound current, to power multi-level
consciousness and bring awareness and consciousness together to fully
comprehand one's spiritual environment.  Once one learns the
techniques of Audinometry, these practices will work on all the
levels of creation - both in this universe and beyond."

Excerpt from "The Journeys Of Ascension" by Bruce K. Avenell

--- In Audinometry@y..., "curious_yang" <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
> --- In Audinometry@y..., "meridian1957" <avenelljen@a...> wrote:
> > A couple of months ago I ran an internet search
using 'Rarankar'.
> > The most vivid meditation I had ever had involved a trip to the
> > Golden Throne of Rarankar, and I was curious to see if there was
any
> > interesting information regarding it on the internet.
> >
> > I didn't find any new information, but I did find an ex-santsangi
> > chat group.
> >
> > My father teaches sound current meditation, so I was raised on
it.  I
> > began meditating when I was 10-years old, thiry-five years ago.
I
> > had been told that the type of meditation we were doing was based
on
> > surat shabd and tantric yoga, but I had never had any contact
with
> > other shabd groups before.  I was amazed by what I read in these
chat
> > rooms.  The way surat shabd yoga is taught today it doesn't seem
much
> > beyond a means for a 'master' to steal energy form his students.
> > These self-styled GIHFs don't seem to know much of anything, from
> > rudimentary aura control to where the Master Creator is, except
how
> > special they are.
> >
> > It seemed terrible to me that so many people are looking for a
way,
> > for 'enlightenment' and all they find is unscrupulous teachers
> > wanting to take advantage of them.
> >
> > I started this web site because I want to try and spread the word
> > that there is another way, a different view.  I'm not interested
in
> > trying to convert anyone, and I also won't hide the fact that the
> > meditation group I belong to is called The Eureka Society.
> >
> > Technique is not offered here.  Just conversation.
>
> good luck meridian you have the right
> frame of mind .. my opinon.. <grin>
>
> i am glad to *know* you
>
> ~~~

Why thank you yang.  It's very nice of you to say so, and very
encouraging.  I greatly appreciate it.

Everything is open to question.  "The mark of an educated mind is the
ability to entertain an idea without either accepting or denying
it".  I don't recall where I read that, but it has always stayed with
me.  You won't know the truth until you experience it for yourself.
It isn't a matter of luck as much as discipline and persistance.
Seems to me part of the persistance is to keep looking for a good
teacher who can help you make your discipline count.

The point is to keep an open mind, take information in, and be aware
of what you really do know and what you don't know conclusively yet.

I also doubt how much experience those meditators have.  Like I keep
saying, none of them seem to know how to get beyond Sat Nam.

--- In Audinometry@y..., "haarvi" <haarvi1@n...> wrote:
> Hi Meridian,
> I read an account you wrote for Radhasoami Studies about a
> conversation with your dad in which he spoke of meeting Kirpal
Singh
> on the inner.  He reports finding Kirpal in sad shape.  How are we
to
> evaluate this report? There are other reports of inner meetings
with
> Kirpal which contradict your dad's account. The idea of the truth
> value of inner plane experience has for me been brought into
question
> particularly by the differing accounts brought back by experienced
> meditators giving news about the rightful successor to one or other
> of the Sant Mat gurus.  It would seem to be just about impossible
to
> test these accounts by anyone who doesn't go inside.  And even if
one
> were lucky enough to have inner access, why would we expect our own
> experiences to be any more real or telling of truth than those of
> well meaning,sincere meditators who contradict each other?  And
would
> it not also be true that if this experience with Kirpal is open to
> question in a way which cannot be resolved, that a good deal if not
> all of the rest of the teachigs about the inner would also be open
to
> question?
> Harvey

--- In Audinometry@y..., "meridian1957" <avenelljen@a...> wrote:
> A couple of months ago I ran an internet search using 'Rarankar'.
> The most vivid meditation I had ever had involved a trip to the
> Golden Throne of Rarankar, and I was curious to see if there was any
> interesting information regarding it on the internet.
>
> I didn't find any new information, but I did find an ex-santsangi
> chat group.
>
> My father teaches sound current meditation, so I was raised on it.  I
> began meditating when I was 10-years old, thiry-five years ago.  I
> had been told that the type of meditation we were doing was based on
> surat shabd and tantric yoga, but I had never had any contact with
> other shabd groups before.  I was amazed by what I read in these chat
> rooms.  The way surat shabd yoga is taught today it doesn't seem much
> beyond a means for a 'master' to steal energy form his students.
> These self-styled GIHFs don't seem to know much of anything, from
> rudimentary aura control to where the Master Creator is, except how
> special they are.
>
> It seemed terrible to me that so many people are looking for a way,
> for 'enlightenment' and all they find is unscrupulous teachers
> wanting to take advantage of them.
>
> I started this web site because I want to try and spread the word
> that there is another way, a different view.  I'm not interested in
> trying to convert anyone, and I also won't hide the fact that the
> meditation group I belong to is called The Eureka Society.
>
> Technique is not offered here.  Just conversation.

good luck meridian you have the right
frame of mind .. my opinon.. <grin>

i am glad to *know* you

~~~

Hi Meridian,
I read an account you wrote for Radhasoami Studies about a
conversation with your dad in which he spoke of meeting Kirpal Singh
on the inner.  He reports finding Kirpal in sad shape.  How are we to
evaluate this report? There are other reports of inner meetings with
Kirpal which contradict your dad's account. The idea of the truth
value of inner plane experience has for me been brought into question
particularly by the differing accounts brought back by experienced
meditators giving news about the rightful successor to one or other
of the Sant Mat gurus.  It would seem to be just about impossible to
test these accounts by anyone who doesn't go inside.  And even if one
were lucky enough to have inner access, why would we expect our own
experiences to be any more real or telling of truth than those of
well meaning,sincere meditators who contradict each other?  And would
it not also be true that if this experience with Kirpal is open to
question in a way which cannot be resolved, that a good deal if not
all of the rest of the teachigs about the inner would also be open to
question?
Harvey

I hope so.  We'll see if anyone shows up.  I've just been itching to
talk to people who are awake.  I don't care if they agree with me,
are angry because of past sant mat experiences, or whatever, as long
as they are awake and aren't trying to pull GIHF nonsense.

--- In Audinometry@y..., "lulalake_1999" <lulalake_1999@y...> wrote:
> Congratulations on the new group.
>
> This should be interesting!
>
> Jules

Congratulations on the new group.

This should be interesting!

Jules

A couple of months ago I ran an internet search using 'Rarankar'.
The most vivid meditation I had ever had involved a trip to the
Golden Throne of Rarankar, and I was curious to see if there was any
interesting information regarding it on the internet.

I didn't find any new information, but I did find an ex-santsangi
chat group.

My father teaches sound current meditation, so I was raised on it.  I
began meditating when I was 10-years old, thiry-five years ago.  I
had been told that the type of meditation we were doing was based on
surat shabd and tantric yoga, but I had never had any contact with
other shabd groups before.  I was amazed by what I read in these chat
rooms.  The way surat shabd yoga is taught today it doesn't seem much
beyond a means for a 'master' to steal energy form his students.
These self-styled GIHFs don't seem to know much of anything, from
rudimentary aura control to where the Master Creator is, except how
special they are.

It seemed terrible to me that so many people are looking for a way,
for 'enlightenment' and all they find is unscrupulous teachers
wanting to take advantage of them.

I started this web site because I want to try and spread the word
that there is another way, a different view.  I'm not interested in
trying to convert anyone, and I also won't hide the fact that the
meditation group I belong to is called The Eureka Society.

Technique is not offered here.  Just conversation.

If I build it, will they come?

To anybody reading this, hello!