>John, ever since reading Stambaugh's good skiffs, I've wondered about
>Jordan's Footloose. Care to give a testimonial? I'd be interested in
>hearing what you have to say about her.
>
>Dennis

Stay tuned for a Chapelle skiff from 1956 - should appear in both MAIB and
in Duckworks. 14' by 5.
--
     Craig O'Donnell
        Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
               <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
        The Proa FAQ   <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
        The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
                Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
                American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
                Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
  _________________________________

      -- Professor of Boatology     -- Junkomologist
      -- Macintosh kinda guy
         Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
  _________________________________

Hey, thanks for the Atkin boat plan site as well as this forum. I hope
it works out as you plan. Since finding the atkinboatplans site I've
been spending a lot of time dreaming about the possibilities. I am
looking at starting a project for 2005, I'm full up for 2004, to see
if I could build something larger than a canoe!

My requirements are:

A. The thing is going to LIVE on a trailer. Which means it'll be
parked on a lot somewhere and towed to a reservoir and sailed for a
day or a weekend and then towed back to a lot for the weekdays.
the winters are a bit long here in Colorado and it'll not see the
water when it gets cold, so it'll be sitting on a trailer then as
well.

B. My garage is 24' long and the doorway is 7' 10" wide. So anything
I'd build needs to probably be less than 22' length and I'd like to
keep it under 7'6" beam as well, just to be sure I can get it out of
the garage once it's built. If I really have to, I can remove some
molding and get 3 more inches in the garage doorway, but that's
pushing it.

So, my dreams have been going to three of the Atkin boats:

1. Teach - 15' V-bottom day sailor. I like double-enders and this
seems like a nice daysailor that wouldn't require me to have to face
the challenge of fitting out a cabin. I could get it built quicker. My
question about Teach is wether I could cold-mold it so that it might
live on the trailer better? Also, I think it might look nicer with a
canoe-yawl rig rather then the marconi sloop. But, I don't really know
enough about boat design to go messing with the sail plan myself.

2. Economy Jane - 21' V-bottom cruiser. Like I said I like
double-enders. When I think I might be up to the challenge of fitting
out a cabin I ponder Economy Jane. Again the issue is if it could live
on a trailer. So, do you think this could be cold-molded and be able
to live on a trailer? Here again, I'd like to see a canoe-yawl rig on
her, but the gaff sloop looks pretty nice as well.

3. Maid of Endor - 20' 4" cruiser. I found this one years ago in 40
Wooden Boats. I am assuming the John Atkin listed there is the same
one here. It's listed in 40 Wooden Boats as "trailerable" and
cold-molded as a possible option. However, it's unclear to me wether
that listing of "trailerable" means it can be put on a trailer if need
be, versus spending most of it's time on a trailer, as any boat I own
would have to do. Here again, I'd like to cold-mold it in hopes that
it would hold up to life on a trailer better. I wouldn't change it's
sail plan though. I really like cutter rigs. It's not a double-ender,
but the wineglass transom looks very pretty and seems to go better
with the cutter rig to my eye. However, with a displacement of 5200
pounds it seems pretty heavy to be lugging around on a trailer,
especially with all the mountains here in Colorado. So, maybe I
shouldn't be considering it. At 7' 8" beam it'd push the limits of my
garage, but I could probably make it work if I really decided too. The
lines sure look pretty! I'd love to see a picture of this boat if you
happen to have a pointer.

I sent away for the Atkin catalog, if nothing else I can always dream!

Again thanks for all the work putting the web site and the forum
together. It is appreciated. I hope it works out for you!

     Thanks
     Chris Kottaridis    (chrisk@...)

John, ever since reading Stambaugh's good skiffs, I've wondered about
Jordan's Footloose. Care to give a testimonial? I'd be interested in
hearing what you have to say about her.

Dennis

--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
> I think I've pretty well got all the flat-bottom sailing skiffs
online now,
> except Dickey and Lark, and they'll be there soon. Here are some
wider
> skiffs, three of them hiding behind the name "catboat". <g>
>
> Katelyn - 14'3" x 4'10"
> Cat Bird - 16' x 5'5"
> Krazy Kat - 17' x 6'1/2"
> James Samuel, Jr. - 17'1" x 7'1"
>
> If you like fat skiffs, you might want to take a look at Warren
Jordan's
> Footloose. I've had one for several years and love it dearly. 15'2"
x 5'6":
>
> http://www.jordanwoodboats.com/
>
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:46:20 -0000, Dennis wrote:
> > Thanks, John. I learned to build and sail on a Bolger design so I
am
> > a fan of simple unstayed rigs. If I built either Jasper or Aunty
> > Helen, I would change to a single sail -- either sprit or lug. I
like
> > the aesthetics of the square rigs. Do you know of any Atkin
designed
> > flat bottomed skiffs in the 15-16ft range that carry more beam
than
> > either Erika or Dickey? I've not seen one that I recall. Maybe you
> > know of one?
>
> --
>                          John <jkohnen@b...>
>                           http://www.boat-links.com/
>          People say that life is the thing, but I prefer reading.
>                           <Logan Pearsall Smith>

You're right. I was seeing what was in my mind, not what was in front
of my eye.  You can see what I'm talking about on Shore Liner, which is
one of my favorites.

Bob
---
>    Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:53:21 -0800
>    From: jkohnen@...
> Subject: Re: Re: Russell R.
>
> Some of the Atkin skiffs have that concavity in the chine forward, but
> on
> the plan views of Russell R. and Little Effort the apparent concavity
> is an
> optical illusion. If you've got the articles on the boats, put a
> straight
> edge along the chine and you'll see that they're slightly _convex_.
> The body
> plans show a smooth twist, that plywood would follow fine, from aft up
> to
> section 3, or maybe two, but it twists back up towards the stem, so
> some
> persuasion would probably be needed to get a plywood sheet to fit.
> Lapstrake
> would probably not only look better (and "keep the spray down") but
> also
> cause fewer headaches.
>
>
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:08:24 -0500, Bob wrote:
>> ................................  One feature of Little Effort that
>> is found on many of the Atkins' flat bottomed designs is that little
>> hollow or concavity of the chine line at the bow. This sharpens the
>> bow
>> at the waterline and eases the flow at the entry.  You don't see that
>> much in these days of fully developed sheet plywood designs.  In a
>> small boat you might get away with torturing a sheet of plywood to fit
>> both the chine and sheer curves, but it's much easier to do with
>> planked or lapstraked sides.  No reason not to use full sheets on the
>> bottom though.....

Billy Atkin generally had the right philosophy about boats. Here's a
snippet:

"There is no way to please everybody. My old waterrat shipmate, Abel Brown,
for instance, will have no truck with what he calls "fancy" boats, nor for
that matter, fancy fittings and gear. He says, "Yer don't want no boat that
has ter be took care of all the time; yer wants a boat yer can use, that's
what yer want, a boat that's got sense an' knows how to behave like decent
people." There is wisdom in his rough words, especially his last five, "to
behave like decent people." On the other hand how many there are who want,
and purchase, fancy boats, thoroughbreds with blue in their seams and plenty
of varnish and brass work to keep one captive. To keep one captive while
Abel's little vessel stands close on the wind offshore and that profane old
cuss sprawls in her stern sheets with a sand bag for a pillow and a whisp of
tobacco smoke trailing off to leeward. No brass work for him this pleasant
summer morning, and so much fun to be lazy.

"There is a good deal to be said for Abel Brown's philosophy and his choice
of a small sailing boat. And it might be an excellent idea for all yacht dub
committees whose duty it is to select and purchase fleets of one design
boats for racing and sailing to have at least two such members. With plainer
and more practical boats the younger people might become seamen as well as
racing men and they assuredly would have more time to sail and be less
burdened with repairs and maintenance."

But then next month he'd come up with some boat that needed a mile of wire
and half a chandlery full of hardware... <shrug>

--
                          John <jkohnen@...>
                           http://www.boat-links.com/
           Never board a ship without an onion, is sound doctrine.
                               <H. W. Tilman>

I think I've pretty well got all the flat-bottom sailing skiffs online now,
except Dickey and Lark, and they'll be there soon. Here are some wider
skiffs, three of them hiding behind the name "catboat". <g>

Katelyn - 14'3" x 4'10"
Cat Bird - 16' x 5'5"
Krazy Kat - 17' x 6'1/2"
James Samuel, Jr. - 17'1" x 7'1"

If you like fat skiffs, you might want to take a look at Warren Jordan's
Footloose. I've had one for several years and love it dearly. 15'2" x 5'6":

http://www.jordanwoodboats.com/

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:46:20 -0000, Dennis wrote:
> Thanks, John. I learned to build and sail on a Bolger design so I am
> a fan of simple unstayed rigs. If I built either Jasper or Aunty
> Helen, I would change to a single sail -- either sprit or lug. I like
> the aesthetics of the square rigs. Do you know of any Atkin designed
> flat bottomed skiffs in the 15-16ft range that carry more beam than
> either Erika or Dickey? I've not seen one that I recall. Maybe you
> know of one?

--
                          John <jkohnen@...>
                           http://www.boat-links.com/
          People say that life is the thing, but I prefer reading.
                           <Logan Pearsall Smith>

Thanks, John. I learned to build and sail on a Bolger design so I am
a fan of simple unstayed rigs. If I built either Jasper or Aunty
Helen, I would change to a single sail -- either sprit or lug. I like
the aesthetics of the square rigs. Do you know of any Atkin designed
flat bottomed skiffs in the 15-16ft range that carry more beam than
either Erika or Dickey? I've not seen one that I recall. Maybe you
know of one?

Dennis

--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
> Don't ignore Jasper, another nice little sailing skiff. There used
to be one
> at Criteser's near Toledo. It looked like a very nice little boat,
and the
> owner said it sailed real good. Jasper _is_ a little boat, but that
can be
> an asset, depending on your needs. If I built an Aunty Helen I'd be
awfully
> tempted to use sprit booms like Jasper's. One thing I don't like
about some
> of the Atkin boats is too much wire and fancy fittings in the
rigging. After
> living with a sprit rigged skiff with an unstayed mast, I can't
understand
> why anybody'd want stays and goosenecks and sail tracks and whatnot
on a
> small, simple boat...
>
> If you want to support the Atkin Website, when you order plans use
the
> printout order form there, or the one in the PDF price list, or
otherwise
> tell Mrs. Atkin that you use the site, so I can get my modest cut
from the
> sale.
>
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:24:11 -0000, Dennis wrote:
> > John, I want to thank you for taking the time and trouble of
making
> > these designs available on the web. I have the catalog and have
> > always been frustrated by the minimal information contained in it.
> > The write-ups on the website are quite helpful and, of course,
engage
> > the drool factor. Presently, I have plans for both "Lark"
and "Willy
> > Winship." Having read about "Alone," "Erika," and "Aunty Helen" it
> > looks as if I am going to have to scrape together some $ for
these. I
> > am going to build a sailing skiff in the near future and I know
it is
> > going to be an Atkin design. I am looking forward to seeing the
pics
> > as you get them up.
>
> --
>                          John <jkohnen@b...>
>                           http://www.boat-links.com/
>              Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
>           Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. <Groucho Marx>

Don't ignore Jasper, another nice little sailing skiff. There used to be one
at Criteser's near Toledo. It looked like a very nice little boat, and the
owner said it sailed real good. Jasper _is_ a little boat, but that can be
an asset, depending on your needs. If I built an Aunty Helen I'd be awfully
tempted to use sprit booms like Jasper's. One thing I don't like about some
of the Atkin boats is too much wire and fancy fittings in the rigging. After
living with a sprit rigged skiff with an unstayed mast, I can't understand
why anybody'd want stays and goosenecks and sail tracks and whatnot on a
small, simple boat...

If you want to support the Atkin Website, when you order plans use the
printout order form there, or the one in the PDF price list, or otherwise
tell Mrs. Atkin that you use the site, so I can get my modest cut from the
sale.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:24:11 -0000, Dennis wrote:
> John, I want to thank you for taking the time and trouble of making
> these designs available on the web. I have the catalog and have
> always been frustrated by the minimal information contained in it.
> The write-ups on the website are quite helpful and, of course, engage
> the drool factor. Presently, I have plans for both "Lark" and "Willy
> Winship." Having read about "Alone," "Erika," and "Aunty Helen" it
> looks as if I am going to have to scrape together some $ for these. I
> am going to build a sailing skiff in the near future and I know it is
> going to be an Atkin design. I am looking forward to seeing the pics
> as you get them up.

--
                          John <jkohnen@...>
                           http://www.boat-links.com/
              Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
           Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. <Groucho Marx>

Who designed the Beachcomber?

Are there any photos of the Maude & Emeline and the Jebb? I'd like to start
a gallery of Atkin boat pictures on the Atkin page. We'd also like to hear
reports on the skiffs' performance.

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 00:28:41 -0000, Steve wrote:
> Chuck's boat is a 'Beachcomber'...

--
                          John <jkohnen@...>
                           http://www.boat-links.com/
           Never board a ship without an onion, is sound doctrine.
                               <H. W. Tilman>

Some of the Atkin skiffs have that concavity in the chine forward, but on
the plan views of Russell R. and Little Effort the apparent concavity is an
optical illusion. If you've got the articles on the boats, put a straight
edge along the chine and you'll see that they're slightly _convex_. The body
plans show a smooth twist, that plywood would follow fine, from aft up to
section 3, or maybe two, but it twists back up towards the stem, so some
persuasion would probably be needed to get a plywood sheet to fit. Lapstrake
would probably not only look better (and "keep the spray down") but also
cause fewer headaches.

Good idea about adding the Atkin URL to the footer.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:08:24 -0500, Bob wrote:
> John,
>
> Thanks for the Atkins plan site, John and Billy have always been two of
> my favorite designers and writers.  One feature of Little Effort that
> is found on many of the Atkins' flat bottomed designs is that little
> hollow or concavity of the chine line at the bow. This sharpens the bow
> at the waterline and eases the flow at the entry.  You don't see that
> much in these days of fully developed sheet plywood designs.  In a
> small boat you might get away with torturing a sheet of plywood to fit
> both the chine and sheer curves, but it's much easier to do with
> planked or lapstraked sides.  No reason not to use full sheets on the
> bottom though.
>
> Bob
>
> PS: How about putting the link to the Atkins plan pages in the group
> message footer.

--
                          John <jkohnen@...>
                           http://www.boat-links.com/
           Never board a ship without an onion, is sound doctrine.
                               <H. W. Tilman>

Chuck's boat is a 'Beachcomber'...

John,

Thanks for the Atkins plan site, John and Billy have always been two of
my favorite designers and writers.  One feature of Little Effort that
is found on many of the Atkins' flat bottomed designs is that little
hollow or concavity of the chine line at the bow. This sharpens the bow
at the waterline and eases the flow at the entry.  You don't see that
much in these days of fully developed sheet plywood designs.  In a
small boat you might get away with torturing a sheet of plywood to fit
both the chine and sheer curves, but it's much easier to do with
planked or lapstraked sides.  No reason not to use full sheets on the
bottom though.

Bob

PS: How about putting the link to the Atkins plan pages in the group
message footer.

---
On Tuesday, January 20, 2004, at 08:18  PM, AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com
wrote:

>    Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:16:09 -0800
>    From: jkohnen@...
> Subject: Russell R.
>
> Someone on our local messabout list was asking about Russell R. Maybe
> it's a
> good idea to bring the boat up here to see what the real Atkin boat
> fans
> have to say about the subject. Here's what I wrote over on the
> messabout
> list:
>
> "I like Russell R. I like the long, lean (but not too lean) and
> graceful
> shape, the enclosed outboard well (quiet!), the good performance with
> moderate power, the simple construction, and that the boat isn't
> cluttered
> up with a permanent cabin (if I had one, most of the use would be as a
> day
> boat, with only occasional cruising). I think it's a winner. The
> Atkins were
> masters of the flat-bottom skiff form. Russell R. is long, but light
> for its
> length, so trailering and launching shouldn't be difficult. To get the
> good
> performance it's important to keep the boat light. I think a hardtop
> cuddy,
> either permanent or removable, could be made light enough not to hurt
> the
> performance, but one would have to keep the word "light" in mind all
> the
> time when building it. The Atkins drew a slightly enlarged, inboard
> version
> of Russell R. with a permanent cuddy that gives an idea of what one
> could
> look like:
>
>      <http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/LittleEffort.html>
>
> The construction of Russell R. is old-fashioned cross-planked bottom,
> with
> no transverse frames, and lapstrake sides. I wouldn't change the
> framing at
> all for plywood construction, though one could probably increase the
> spacing
> of the side frames a bit, if they wanted to. Russell R. is narrow
> enough
> that adding transverse bottom frames wouldn't be necessary (there are
> fore
> and aft stringers), I'd just lay the plywood crosswise. The plans call
> for
> 3/4" white cedar bottom planking and 5/8" cedar side planks. 1/2"
> plywood
> would probably do for the bottom and 3/8" for the sides. I'd tell
> people it
> was "to keep the spray down", but mostly for looks and the fun of it
> I'd do
> the sides with lapped plywood planks, if I was doing it."
>
> --
>                          John <jkohnen@...>

John, I want to thank you for taking the time and trouble of making
these designs available on the web. I have the catalog and have
always been frustrated by the minimal information contained in it.
The write-ups on the website are quite helpful and, of course, engage
the drool factor. Presently, I have plans for both "Lark" and "Willy
Winship." Having read about "Alone," "Erika," and "Aunty Helen" it
looks as if I am going to have to scrape together some $ for these. I
am going to build a sailing skiff in the near future and I know it is
going to be an Atkin design. I am looking forward to seeing the pics
as you get them up.

Cheers,

Dennis

Someone on our local messabout list was asking about Russell R. Maybe it's a
good idea to bring the boat up here to see what the real Atkin boat fans
have to say about the subject. Here's what I wrote over on the messabout
list:

"I like Russell R. I like the long, lean (but not too lean) and graceful
shape, the enclosed outboard well (quiet!), the good performance with
moderate power, the simple construction, and that the boat isn't cluttered
up with a permanent cabin (if I had one, most of the use would be as a day
boat, with only occasional cruising). I think it's a winner. The Atkins were
masters of the flat-bottom skiff form. Russell R. is long, but light for its
length, so trailering and launching shouldn't be difficult. To get the good
performance it's important to keep the boat light. I think a hardtop cuddy,
either permanent or removable, could be made light enough not to hurt the
performance, but one would have to keep the word "light" in mind all the
time when building it. The Atkins drew a slightly enlarged, inboard version
of Russell R. with a permanent cuddy that gives an idea of what one could
look like:

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/LittleEffort.html

The construction of Russell R. is old-fashioned cross-planked bottom, with
no transverse frames, and lapstrake sides. I wouldn't change the framing at
all for plywood construction, though one could probably increase the spacing
of the side frames a bit, if they wanted to. Russell R. is narrow enough
that adding transverse bottom frames wouldn't be necessary (there are fore
and aft stringers), I'd just lay the plywood crosswise. The plans call for
3/4" white cedar bottom planking and 5/8" cedar side planks. 1/2" plywood
would probably do for the bottom and 3/8" for the sides. I'd tell people it
was "to keep the spray down", but mostly for looks and the fun of it I'd do
the sides with lapped plywood planks, if I was doing it."

--
                          John <jkohnen@...>
                           http://www.boat-links.com/
Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless
they meet two conditions:
   1. He is a Greek
   2. He is a Fisherman                  <Roy Blount Jr.>

Two Atkin skiffs were built as individual projects at Bates in 2001-
2002.  Mark Bright built 'Maud and Emeline', planks and bottom are
Aquatek, frames, knees, breastplate and stem are fir and oak,
gunwales are purpleheart, thwarts are cedar...she is clinch nailed
and screwed together with liberal use of 5200 and very little epoxy;
and Phil built 'Jebb' of okume and oak.

Additionally, the program's instructor, Chuck Graydon, is currently
building (at the shop in Tacoma) a 23' Sand Dollar which he plans to
beach cruise the south Sound in.

Thanks for this group and the web page you're working on John.

Steve Delnick

...does anyone have any ideas on building a trailer
like that?...

If you look in the want ads under moble or
manufactured homes sometimes there are pre-FHA
inspected trailers for free (1976 or earlier) Since
they can not be legally relocated because they do not
meet current codes and many have aluminum wiring.
There are many things on these trailers that could be
used on a sternwheeler, scrap the aluminum but you
would have a large dumping fee for the rest.
                          Lon



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Hi...

Thanks for your thoughts.  I have compared Gwen with Lady and there are some
sizeable differences, though either could be modified.

Gwen is 8'6" from bow to stern, while Lady has an attractive sweep.  I am sure
there is a nautical term but I can't think of it right now.  Gwen has a greatly
simplified cabin structure and windows as well.

To me Gwen is the Chevy Nova, while Lady is... a Lady.

The problem I grapple with is... I already have a boat for the very few rivers
here in the Seattle area.   Lady and Gwen seem poorly suited to Puget Sound. 
yet a boat well suited for Puget Sound could be less suited for dreams of
boating America's rivers.  This task could be well served by either Lady or
Gwen, but I presume not on the biggest of the rivers.  The shallow draft and
plentiful room is a real plus on small and medium rivers, as is the charm of
Lady and its sternwheel.

I could see doing parts of the Great Loop of the Intercoastal Waterway and the
rivers, but not some of the exposed ocean portions.

Trailering Gwen or Lady wouldn't be a daily thing, but it would be required to
get me TO the rivers from the Seattle area.  I would see using a flatbed type
trailer behind a rather large pick up truck.  Yes?

Bryan

woodcraftssuch <woodcraftssuch@...> wrote:
if you go to the atkins plans site shown in the first message of this
group and print the pictures they show for 'the lady of the lake'
and 'gwen o' the river', being sure to read the introduction for
the 'queen of shallow waters' first, you can then put one picture on
the computer screen,hold the other one over it and compare the
two.they seem to be almost identical except for the bow and beam
widths,so it would seem to me that you could either change the first
boat or build the other one and end up with 8'6" wide.i would think
you could use plywood but the framing might have to be changed,maybe
the people that sell the plans have plans for useing plywood.i have
thought about a sternwheeler of this size for a long time and a
related project would be to build a trailer for it that would make it
easily portable that could be used on ramps so you could put in
anywhere.does anyone have any ideas on building a trailer like that?



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

if you go to the atkins plans site shown in the first message of this
group and print the pictures they show for 'the lady of the lake'
and 'gwen o' the river', being sure to read the introduction for
the 'queen of shallow waters' first, you can then put one picture on
the computer screen,hold the other one over it and compare the
two.they seem to be almost identical except for the bow and beam
widths,so it would seem to me that you could either change the first
boat or build the other one and end up with 8'6" wide.i would think
you could use plywood but the framing might have to be changed,maybe
the people that sell the plans have plans for useing plywood.i have
thought about a sternwheeler of this size for a long time and a
related project would be to build a trailer for it that would make it
easily portable that could be used on ramps so you could put in
anywhere.does anyone have any ideas on building a trailer like that?

In batten-seam construction each seam in the planking is backed up by a
batten. IIRC, it was developed by one of the New England whaleboat builders,
to give a light, strong hull that'd stay tight out of the water, like
lapstrake planking, but with a smooth skin that wouldn't scare the whales.
In later years it became common in light, fast motorboats. A picture is
worth a thousand words, as they say:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AtkinBoats/files/Temp/BattenSeam.gif

I suppose there will be an Atkin boat in my future, but the current project
is a Jim Michalak design, a Scram Pram.

Cartopping is a PITA unless the boat is _very_ light and handy. You'll soon
be thinking about a trailer for your Goat Island Skiff. <g> They're really
less trouble.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:20:27 -0000, David G wrote:
> --- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
> > John is right about traditional carvel-planked boats, but lapstrake
> boats
> > and batten-seam planked boats can handle trailering pretty well.
>
> John,
> OK, I know all the terms/methods except "batten-seam". Can you describe?
> Perhaps I would know by another name? On another topic - are you
> currently in construction mode? If I remember correctly, you own
> "Pickle", a design I much admired which did not fit the cartopping
> criterion. Anything else in the works...perhaps an Atkin design?

--
                          John <jkohnen@...>
                           http://www.boat-links.com/
                       One cat just leads to another.
                             <Ernest Hemingway>

--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, jkohnen@b... wrote:
> John is right about traditional carvel-planked boats, but lapstrake
boats
> and batten-seam planked boats can handle trailering pretty well.

John,
OK, I know all the terms/methods except "batten-seam". Can you describe?
Perhaps I would know by another name? On another topic - are you
currently in construction mode? If I remember correctly, you own
"Pickle", a design I much admired which did not fit the cartopping
criterion. Anything else in the works...perhaps an Atkin design?

Happy New Year,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.

"An oppressive government is more to be feared than a tiger, or a
beer" -- Confucius

Building Lady of the Lake with plywood planking shouldn't be a problem.
She's designed for thwartship bottom planking with no frames, so I'd put the
plywood on crosswise too (the bottom is just less than 8' wide), maybe
adding a few cross frames on the bottom to boot.

A 28' by 8'6" houseboat is a LOT of boat to be trailering, you wouldn't do
it often, for sure. I don't think it'd be worth lopping a foot off the width
just so you can trailer without a permit.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 03:56:22 -0000, surbahars wrote:
> I am interested in a design like Lady of the Lake, but I am not
> sure.  Since the plans are NOT written for plywood I am not sure.  I
> want a boat for America's rivers, but I wonder if Lady is really
> ONLY suitable for the mildest of rivers.  Plus, it is 9' 6" wide,
> which means it can't be trailered.  This makes its mission pretty
> limited.  Or does it?  I could modify the plans to make the boat 8'
> 6", and to use plywood instead of planking. And I would have to find
> a modern motor for it to work. It sure would be a fun boat... but
> with all that work...

--
                          John <jkohnen@...>
                           http://www.boat-links.com/
Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless
they meet two conditions:
   1. He is a Greek
   2. He is a Fisherman                  <Roy Blount Jr.>

John is right about traditional carvel-planked boats, but lapstrake boats
and batten-seam planked boats can handle trailering pretty well. Both
lapstrake and batten-seam can be done with plywood planks, which helps the
situation because of the better dimensional stability of plywood. Many of
the small boats in the Atkin catalog could be planked lapstrake, even if not
so designed. Batten-seam using plywood planks is a better way to convert
older V-bottom designs to plywood than trying to wrap wide sheets of ply
around them. Gluing the seams of plywood lapstrake or batten-seam boats with
epoxy adds so much strength that you can reduce the amount of framing.

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:36:03 -0500, John T wrote:
> David--I can only offer some opinions--mostly based on experience.
>
> Most of Adkins designs (as well as Culler's, Hereshoff's, and the boats
Cha=
> pelle documented) were intended to stay in the water.  They were only
water=
>  tight when the planking absorbed enough water so that the planks swelled
a=
> nd "took up".  Further, these boats relyed on a lot of fastenings.  If you
=
> try to keep a traditionally built boat on a trailer, a) it will dry out
and=
>  leak badly when you put it in the water and b) continued transportation
on=
>  a trailer will loosen all the fastenings.  Some of Adkins designs were
for=
>  plywood and some can be adopted to strip planking--either of which is
bett=
> er suited to trailer sailing.
> ...

--
                          John <jkohnen@...>
                           http://www.boat-links.com/
I cannot help thinking that the people with motor boats miss a great deal.
   If they would only keep to rowboats or canoes, and use oar or paddle...
  they would get infinitely more benefit than by having their work done for
                   them by gasoline. <Theodore Roosevelt>

I am interested in a design like Lady of the Lake, but I am not
sure.  Since the plans are NOT written for plywood I am not sure.  I
want a boat for America's rivers, but I wonder if Lady is really
ONLY suitable for the mildest of rivers.  Plus, it is 9' 6" wide,
which means it can't be trailered.  This makes its mission pretty
limited.  Or does it?  I could modify the plans to make the boat 8'
6", and to use plywood instead of planking. And I would have to find
a modern motor for it to work. It sure would be a fun boat... but
with all that work...

---

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  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AtkinBoats/
   
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See photo section to see what I mean about re-styling cabin trunk
and shelter house. Picture of FK.Lord designed "Foto" which has very
similar styling to William Atkin's Inboard Power Cruiser designs
from the 1920's & 1930's

--- In AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@y...> wrote:
> I'm thinking about buying the plans for "Hope" , the 27' x 7' 6
Inboard cruiser as I'd think she'd make a very nice day/overnignter
cruiser.Possibly with some subtle re-styling of the cabin and
shelter house, but retaining the late 1920's- early,to  mid '30s
looks.Powered by a modern light truck diesel of 3.4Litres(about  207
C.I.D.) and 90 HP @ 3400 rpm she'd easily attain her designed speed
of 17 mph and maybe even do a bit better.But with all that extra
power she'd wouldn't go too much faster than 20 Knots, just make a
lot of waves and suck the stern down.The reason for over powering in
this case would be to obtain the maximum speed at moderate engine
revs,have heaps of power in reserve if conditions warranted it and
prolong engine life due to low - moderate speed running while
achieving maximum speed(when required) with low noise,reasonable
economy and less vibration than a smaller inboard diesel working
flat out!( Besides I'm thinking that the 4 cylinder diesel would
weigh
>  about the same as the original gasoline motor Hope was designed
to use.) As to hull construction, strip-planked and epoxy saturated
would probably be the way go go. Strong, reasonably light and
durable and can stand drying out,especially if Dynel/Fibreglass
sheathed. Hopes dimensions are highway legal, so trailering could be
an option but not an everyday prospect!
>
> I've still got to build a Custom designed "Torpedo - stern
Runabout" by Phil Bolger called "Silver Blaze" first,(when he
finishes the plans - hopefully in the next couple of months!!), but
I'm already thinking about future projects and this seems like a
good idea at the moment!!.
>
> I'm interested to know if anyone has any pictures of any completed
boats of this design (Hope), whether new or from old magazines etc,
because I'd like to see what she looks like in the "Round".
>
> Hugo Tyson,                         Launceston, Tasmania,
Australia.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Personals
> - New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time!

I am interested in a design like Lady of the Lake, but I am not
sure.  Since the plans are NOT written for plywood I am not sure.  I
want a boat for America's rivers, but I wonder if Lady is really
ONLY suitable for the mildest of rivers.  Plus, it is 9' 6" wide,
which means it can't be trailered.  This makes its mission pretty
limited.  Or does it?  I could modify the plans to make the boat 8'
6", and to use plywood instead of planking. And I would have to find
a modern motor for it to work. It sure would be a fun boat... but
with all that work...

----- Original Message -----

From: arbordg

To: AtkinBoats@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 5:21 PM

Subject: [AtkinBoats] New Group Hello

OOPS, didn't mean to post that unfinished missive.

John,
I'm glad to see you've started this group. I've been attracted to the
Atkins designs for awhile. As you may remember, my friend, my 2 sons &
I decided to build Micheal Storer's "Goat Island Skiff" as our first
boat. The Atkins boats, however, seem to (perhaps) fit my fantasies
for the second boat. I really enjoy the traditional looks, and look
forward to crafting something more challenging than an "instant boat".
I do have questions, though, that you, or another group member, may be
able to answer. First - I am considering some sort of minimal,
trailerable cruising sailboat, ala Welsford's "Penguin". Functionally,
how much of a penalty is there to a "traditional" design/layout like
these compared to  the seemingly more efficient, far less traditional
boats from bolger, michalak, et.al.? Where does Welsford fit on that
spectrum?
Second - how much more difficult to build is a traditional boat
(Atkins) vs. stitch & glue vs. Penguin? I don't imagine that
there are any pat answers to these issues. I understand that there are
far more variables involved. But, as a newcomer to boatbuilding
(though not at all to woodworking), I'd like to get some sense of it
all. This will serve to guide my thinking about what boat #2 might be.
Again, thanks for taking the time to moderate a new group.

Happy New Year,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.

"All who Joy would win, must share it, Happiness was born a twin" -
Lord Byron

---

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• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AtkinBoats/
   
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  AtkinBoats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Hello, this group is a wonderful idea.

I was introduced to Atkins designs by the writing of Robb White
(Rescue Minor) and a recent commission built by my neighbor Alex
Hadden - a 34' tunnel stern deisel cruiser.

I think the Rescue Minor, or a similar design, might be ideal for my
situation - mostly a protected big river, with some "outside"
expeditions, a lot of very shallow transportation over half-tide mud
flats, a "ground-out" requirement, and occasional ice-breaking.

Unfortunately, I am congenitally incapable of dealing with boat
maintenance;  painting once or twice a decade is my limit.  I have
reached the conclusion that welded aluminum plate is the material for
me - takes a beating, less maintenance is better, etc.  I built a
Bolger Teal of 1/8 plate, hiring a local guy to weld the seams, and
it is pretty succesful, if heavy.

I understand that the tunnel stern boats were designed for plywood
sheet construction, but have never seen one built this way. Any
information or contacts regarding these boats would be most welcome.

Best regards,
Curtis

aka Sal's Dad (ref to 'One Morning in Maine')

OOPS, didn't mean to post that unfinished missive.

John,
I'm glad to see you've started this group. I've been attracted to the
Atkins designs for awhile. As you may remember, my friend, my 2 sons &
I decided to build Micheal Storer's "Goat Island Skiff" as our first
boat. The Atkins boats, however, seem to (perhaps) fit my fantasies
for the second boat. I really enjoy the traditional looks, and look
forward to crafting something more challenging than an "instant boat".
I do have questions, though, that you, or another group member, may be
able to answer. First - I am considering some sort of minimal,
trailerable cruising sailboat, ala Welsford's "Penguin". Functionally,
how much of a penalty is there to a "traditional" design/layout like
these compared to  the seemingly more efficient, far less traditional
boats from bolger, michalak, et.al.? Where does Welsford fit on that
spectrum?
Second - how much more difficult to build is a traditional boat
(Atkins) vs. stitch & glue vs. Penguin? I don't imagine that
there are any pat answers to these issues. I understand that there are
far more variables involved. But, as a newcomer to boatbuilding
(though not at all to woodworking), I'd like to get some sense of it
all. This will serve to guide my thinking about what boat #2 might be.
Again, thanks for taking the time to moderate a new group.

Happy New Year,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.

"All who Joy would win, must share it, Happiness was born a twin" -
Lord Byron

William "Billy" Atkin and his son John designed boats for the better part of
the 20th century. Good boats and sensible boats mostly; sailboats that can
be built without breaking the bank, but will give pleasure for years;
motorboats that give good speed with modest power -- and modest wakes. The
kind of boats that not only make their owners and passengers happy, but also
brighten the day for others sharing the water with them. The world would be
a better place with more Atkin boats on the water.

Of the more than 900 designs produced by William and John Atkin, well over a
third were intended for amateur construction and published in MoToR BoatinG
magazine. One plan per month (with the exception of a few multi-part
articles), every month, from the early 1920s to the late 1950s! The current
catalog of Atkin plans, over 200 of them, consists mainly of designs first
published in MoToR BoatinG. The designs date from a time when amateur
boatbuilders were assumed to be handier than they're supposed to be now --
these aren't instant boats -- but they're generally not complicated boats
either, and many could be adapted to more modern construction techniques.

Some time ago Pat Atkin, John's widow, approached me about putting together
a Web page for the Atkin designs. After some hemming and hawing, I'm now
working on the site, and have a fair part of the design catalog online. In
time, I intend to add some biographical material and photos of boats built
to Atkin plans:

http://www.atkinboatplans.com/

I've also got an incomplete index of the MoToR BoatinG Ideal Series, the
bound collections of articles from the magazine:

http://www.boat-links.com/Ideal/

Most of the Atkin boats are just as good today as they were when designed. I
hope this group, and the online catalog, will inspire the building of more
good boats.

BTW, that's Eric at the top of the group's Web page.

--
                          John <jkohnen@...>
                           http://www.boat-links.com/
                       One boat just leads to another.
                                <John Kohnen>