I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that I'm
in Haplogroup Q - M242.

The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was most
likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks.  He was a
"Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the
suburbs with a wife and kids.  He had a Germanic last name and a story about his
background that has proven to be very dubious.

I'm joining this group because of the following:

(1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since
other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.

(2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I
found online for Ashkenazi-Q's.  The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a
value of 12 instead of 16.

(I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for
those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)

I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are the
ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular.  My facial features are a
little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's.  If I were in show biz, I
could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or
Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I
got from my father would seem to indicate.

I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.

Jim

Hello Jim,

Do you suppose you could upload your results to Ysearch from within your Family
Tree DNA page and post the 5-digit Ysearch account number here? This is probably
the easiest way for others to offer an opinion.

Best,

A.J.

----- Original Message -----

From: J

To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:25 AM

Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage

 

I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.

The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks. He was a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the suburbs with a wife and kids. He had a Germanic last name and a story about his background that has proven to be very dubious.

I'm joining this group because of the following:

(1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.

(2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I found online for Ashkenazi-Q's. The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a value of 12 instead of 16.

(I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)

I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular. My facial features are a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's. If I were in show biz, I could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I got from my father would seem to indicate.

I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.

Jim

Hi Nadene,


Thanks for the info and also for the offer to help.  The problem with doing the
genealogy search is that I don't think the last name my father used was his
original last name.  There are people who are familiar with the background of
the "Von Schilling" family, and we've had a little contact in the past.  It just
seems that their story is entirely different from the story my father told and
that there's no place in their family history where my father seemed to fit in.


I've done some searching of census records, although maybe not as much as I
could.  Again, the problem is that I don't really know what last name my father
had when he was growing up.


Jim



>>> "NADENE GOLDFOOT"  01/13/12 1:02 PM >>>
Hi Jim,
I just checked our alleles and my brother has the same  results that you do on
439 and 385a.  Our surname is Goldfoot, which is anglicized from Goldfus in
Yiddish, Goldfuss in German.  Jews were in Germany and from there branched out
into Eastern Europe.  ours went to Telsiai, Lithuania.  After doing the 67
allele test and a few others we are listed as Q1b1 and are Ashkenazi Jewish. 
There are many surnames that are German and also Jewish with no connection
between the two groups.  This is true of Goldfoot.  There is another group that
are of a completely different haplogroup.  Jews had to buy names eventually when
the countries wanted taxes from the people, and were given a list to choose
from, usually.

Luckily, my father and his mother and siblings were alive and we lived in the
same city that he was born in.  I've had to do a lot of searching to find the
origins were Telsiai.  The only hint I had was the 1910 census in that his
father came from "Russia."  My grandfather died in an accident in 1912.  Have
you done a genealogy search and check the census records carefully?  If you need
help in this, my email is goldfoot1@....  I'd be willing to help look
for you if you contact me right away before my subsc to ancestry stops.

Nadene





   ----- Original Message -----
   From: J
   To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:25 AM
   Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage



   I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that
I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.

   The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was
most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks. He was a
"Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the
suburbs with a wife and kids. He had a Germanic last name and a story about his
background that has proven to be very dubious.

   I'm joining this group because of the following:

   (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since
other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.

   (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I
found online for Ashkenazi-Q's. The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a value
of 12 instead of 16.

   (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for
those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)

   I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are
the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular. My facial features are
a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's. If I were in show biz, I
could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or
Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I
got from my father would seem to indicate.

   I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.

   Jim

Nadene and Jim,      My paternal ancestors also have a German name: Fruhling
(changed to Friehling here in the US).  The ancestral towns are all in Galicia,
near the Carpathian mountains, considered Austria when they were emigrating. We
always thought they must have bribed someone to get the name that means
"Springtime", instead of one of the more insulting names they could have gotten.
We know there are non-Jewish Fruhlings most likely not related, but who knows
for sure.
                                          Ted Friehling
---- NADENE GOLDFOOT <goldfoot1@...> wrote:
> Hi Jim,
> I just checked our alleles and my brother has the same  results that you do on
439 and 385a.  Our surname is Goldfoot, which is anglicized from Goldfus in
Yiddish, Goldfuss in German.  Jews were in Germany and from there branched out
into Eastern Europe.  ours went to Telsiai, Lithuania.  After doing the 67
allele test and a few others we are listed as Q1b1 and are Ashkenazi Jewish. 
There are many surnames that are German and also Jewish with no connection
between the two groups.  This is true of Goldfoot.  There is another group that
are of a completely different haplogroup.  Jews had to buy names eventually when
the countries wanted taxes from the people, and were given a list to choose
from, usually.
>
> Luckily, my father and his mother and siblings were alive and we lived in the
same city that he was born in.  I've had to do a lot of searching to find the
origins were Telsiai.  The only hint I had was the 1910 census in that his
father came from "Russia."  My grandfather died in an accident in 1912.  Have
you done a genealogy search and check the census records carefully?  If you need
help in this, my email is goldfoot1@....  I'd be willing to help look
for you if you contact me right away before my subsc to ancestry stops.
>
> Nadene
>
>
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: J
>   To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:25 AM
>   Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage
>
>
>
>   I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that
I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.
>
>   The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was
most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks. He was a
"Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the
suburbs with a wife and kids. He had a Germanic last name and a story about his
background that has proven to be very dubious.
>
>   I'm joining this group because of the following:
>
>   (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since
other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.
>
>   (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that
I found online for Ashkenazi-Q's. The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a
value of 12 instead of 16.
>
>   (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing
for those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)
>
>   I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are
the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular. My facial features are
a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's. If I were in show biz, I
could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or
Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I
got from my father would seem to indicate.
>
>   I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.
>
>   Jim
>
>
>
>

Thanks for the suggestion, A.J., and I just uploaded my results to Ysearch.  The
# is MPV9P.

Jim

--- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "aj_levin" <aj_levin@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Jim,
>
> Do you suppose you could upload your results to Ysearch from within your
Family Tree DNA page and post the 5-digit Ysearch account number here? This is
probably the easiest way for others to offer an opinion.
>
> Best,
>
> A.J.
>

----- Original Message -----

From: James Von Schilling

To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 3:54 AM

Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage

 

Hi Nadene,

Thanks for the info and also for the offer to help. The problem with doing the genealogy search is that I don't think the last name my father used was his original last name. There are people who are familiar with the background of the "Von Schilling" family, and we've had a little contact in the past. It just seems that their story is entirely different from the story my father told and that there's no place in their family history where my father seemed to fit in.

I've done some searching of census records, although maybe not as much as I could. Again, the problem is that I don't really know what last name my father had when he was growing up.

Jim

>>> "NADENE GOLDFOOT" 01/13/12 1:02 PM >>>
Hi Jim,
I just checked our alleles and my brother has the same results that you do on 439 and 385a. Our surname is Goldfoot, which is anglicized from Goldfus in Yiddish, Goldfuss in German. Jews were in Germany and from there branched out into Eastern Europe. ours went to Telsiai, Lithuania. After doing the 67 allele test and a few others we are listed as Q1b1 and are Ashkenazi Jewish. There are many surnames that are German and also Jewish with no connection between the two groups. This is true of Goldfoot. There is another group that are of a completely different haplogroup. Jews had to buy names eventually when the countries wanted taxes from the people, and were given a list to choose from, usually.

Luckily, my father and his mother and siblings were alive and we lived in the same city that he was born in. I've had to do a lot of searching to find the origins were Telsiai. The only hint I had was the 1910 census in that his father came from "Russia." My grandfather died in an accident in 1912. Have you done a genealogy search and check the census records carefully? If you need help in this, my email is goldfoot1@.... I'd be willing to help look for you if you contact me right away before my subsc to ancestry stops.

Nadene

----- Original Message -----
From: J
To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:25 AM
Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage

I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.

The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks. He was a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the suburbs with a wife and kids. He had a Germanic last name and a story about his background that has proven to be very dubious.

I'm joining this group because of the following:

(1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.

(2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I found online for Ashkenazi-Q's. The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a value of 12 instead of 16.

(I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)

I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular. My facial features are a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's. If I were in show biz, I could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I got from my father would seem to indicate.

I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.

Jim

Do you have more than 12 markers? My Swiss German ancestors were Q1b1a* any
Jewish roots are Conjectural, as far back as the 16th century they were
Christians, German speaking farmers. and all my close matches are likely Swiss,
though they may be listed as German or French, They were Mennonites or close
relations.

I have swiss matches at 1200 and possibly 1800 years separate. my closest know
Jewish(Ashkenazim) match is at least 2100 years away,  And the Swiss Identity is
only 500 years old, the Allemanic and German Identities are 1500. The Swiss,
Bavarian and Swabian Germans were for the most part Germanized Celts. So your Q
could be Fully Jewish, fully German, fully Swiss, or all the above.

Quote:  Rebekah Canada
DYF395S1 is a very slow changing marker. All Ashkenazi Jewish Q1b1a men have
DYF395SI = 15-18 or 15-19. Others, who are not Jews or who are other types of
Jews (Mizrachi, Sephardi, etc.) have different values.

My values for DYF395S1 are 15-17
So you should check those values or get them tested, beyond the National
Genographic Project, go to FTDna.com or 23andme.com

--- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "J" <jvonschilling@...> wrote:
>
> I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that
I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.
>
> The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was
most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks.  He was
a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in
the suburbs with a wife and kids.  He had a Germanic last name and a story about
his background that has proven to be very dubious.
>
> I'm joining this group because of the following:
>
> (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since
other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.
>
> (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I
found online for Ashkenazi-Q's.  The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a
value of 12 instead of 16.
>
> (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for
those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)
>
> I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are
the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular.  My facial features are
a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's.  If I were in show biz, I
could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or
Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I
got from my father would seem to indicate.
>
> I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.
>
> Jim
>

Dear Dr. Jim,

I found you at FamilyTreeDNA. At 12 markers you match me and 231 other people
exactly.

As far as I can tell we are 99% Ashkenazi Jewish.

I suggest you do the following for your next steps.

1. Join the Jewish_Q surname group at Family Tree DNA.
2. Join the Q Y-DNA group at Family Tree DNA.
3. You need to have more STRs tested. That means going from 12 markers to say
67. This will really reduce the number of exact matches.
4. At this time do not waste your time having SNPs tested. You will get far more
interesting information from having STRs tested.
5. If you are interested in your mother's background you might have your mtDNA
tested.
6. If you would like to find close relatives in the database then you should
join the Family Finder at Family Tree DNA and pay for that test. I think that
will replace or include #5.
7. If you are interested in health issues in your DNA then consider being tested
at 23andME.com.

For sure do steps #1 and #2. They are free. Step #1 will let me help you. Step
#2 will let a whole group of interesting people help you.

Do not worry about the L245. Your STRs will give you a good idea of your SNPs. 
You are most likely Q1b1a.

Dave Howard
Group Administrator for Jewish_Q
Moderator of this Group (Ashkenazi-Q)

PS We enjoy your posts and there are some very nice, friendly, and helpful
people here. Some know 10x more about this stuff than I do.

PS My wife thinks Frank Langella is the sexiest man in the world after Sean
Connery.


--- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "J" <jvonschilling@...> wrote:
>
> I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that
I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.
>
> The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was
most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks.  He was
a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in
the suburbs with a wife and kids.  He had a Germanic last name and a story about
his background that has proven to be very dubious.
>
> I'm joining this group because of the following:
>
> (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since
other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.
>
> (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I
found online for Ashkenazi-Q's.  The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a
value of 12 instead of 16.
>
> (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for
those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)
>
> I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are
the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular.  My facial features are
a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's.  If I were in show biz, I
could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or
Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I
got from my father would seem to indicate.
>
> I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.
>
> Jim
>

Thanks, Nadene, for all your good advice.  Maybe my next step is to go for the
67 DNA test -- I just looked at the price list at Family Tree.


The catch with looking into the various listings of people named Von Schilling
and Schilling is that I just don't know if my father had that name (either one)
at birth or where his ancestors lived.  But I did just register with the
JewishGen website and started to explore the lists.


Jim

>>> "NADENE GOLDFOOT"  01/14/12 5:08 PM >>>
Jim,
My thoughts are: Go to the JewishGen website,  http://www.jewishgen.org/, put in
Germany for starterrs in the country, and you will see tons of information come
up for Von Schilling.  You can explore using your own facts of your genealogy. 
It'll take months to use all the available searches on this one free website.

Also, use the paid website of http://ancestry.com and use your name, Von
Schilling, and see what there is.  I just did and found a family in Brooklyn
with the father from Belgium.  There are tons and tons of Von Schillings listed
there.  You know that it will list the head of the family, and then tells what
country the father was from and the mother of that head.  That's another clue. 
You can also look for what language the spoke.  It would be interesting to see
if it was Hebrew or Yiddish.  I saw a person that was listing as Schilling. 
It's possible that the original name was that, and that Von was added later. 
Anyway, see how far you can go with your Von Schilling surname till it goes into
Europe and you can't search unless you go for the world option which is a little
more expensive.  That is great if you're doing an English/Welsh, Irish, Scottish
search, but not so good on other countires.  That's where JewishGen really comes
in.  It's amazing.
I actually found my Nathan Goldfus (first name was in Yiddish as Nokhum Goldfus)
and I almost missed it as I was still thinking "Nathan".  in Telsiai, Lithuania.
My hint was that I have run across two other serious Goldfus researchers who
also found their Goldfus person in Telsiai.  That seemed to be the only place I
have found Goldfus-in Lithuania.

The change may be when your ancestor had to go from example: Abraham, son of
Nathan to Abraham Von Schilling.  I've run across Jews coming to the USA who
changed their (new) surnames to another one-like one person who used the name of
his sponsor out of gratitude, or some such reason as evading the Russian draft.

If you have had the whole 67 allele dna test, you might go for the next test of
your genes where you find people with segments of your genes.  I had that done
at 23&me because I got a sale price at the time, and you can see the countries
their ancestors came from who are a match to you.  It can give you more insight.
Nadene


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: James Von Schilling
   To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 3:54 AM
   Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage



   Hi Nadene,

   Thanks for the info and also for the offer to help. The problem with doing the
genealogy search is that I don't think the last name my father used was his
original last name. There are people who are familiar with the background of the
"Von Schilling" family, and we've had a little contact in the past. It just
seems that their story is entirely different from the story my father told and
that there's no place in their family history where my father seemed to fit in.

   I've done some searching of census records, although maybe not as much as I
could. Again, the problem is that I don't really know what last name my father
had when he was growing up.

   Jim

   >>> "NADENE GOLDFOOT" 01/13/12 1:02 PM >>>
   Hi Jim,
   I just checked our alleles and my brother has the same results that you do on
439 and 385a. Our surname is Goldfoot, which is anglicized from Goldfus in
Yiddish, Goldfuss in German. Jews were in Germany and from there branched out
into Eastern Europe. ours went to Telsiai, Lithuania. After doing the 67 allele
test and a few others we are listed as Q1b1 and are Ashkenazi Jewish. There are
many surnames that are German and also Jewish with no connection between the two
groups. This is true of Goldfoot. There is another group that are of a
completely different haplogroup. Jews had to buy names eventually when the
countries wanted taxes from the people, and were given a list to choose from,
usually.

   Luckily, my father and his mother and siblings were alive and we lived in the
same city that he was born in. I've had to do a lot of searching to find the
origins were Telsiai. The only hint I had was the 1910 census in that his father
came from "Russia." My grandfather died in an accident in 1912. Have you done a
genealogy search and check the census records carefully? If you need help in
this, my email is goldfoot1@.... I'd be willing to help look for you if
you contact me right away before my subsc to ancestry stops.

   Nadene

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: J
   To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:25 AM
   Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage

   I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that
I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.

   The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was
most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks. He was a
"Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the
suburbs with a wife and kids. He had a Germanic last name and a story about his
background that has proven to be very dubious.

   I'm joining this group because of the following:

   (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since
other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.

   (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I
found online for Ashkenazi-Q's. The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a value
of 12 instead of 16.

   (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for
those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)

   I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are
the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular. My facial features are
a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's. If I were in show biz, I
could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or
Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I
got from my father would seem to indicate.

   I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.

   Jim

I don't have more than 12 markers at this time, but getting more markers
definitely seems like something I should look into.

Thanks for the info!

Jim

--- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cdbaysinger@...> wrote:
>
> Do you have more than 12 markers? My Swiss German ancestors were Q1b1a* any
Jewish roots are Conjectural, as far back as the 16th century they were
Christians, German speaking farmers. and all my close matches are likely Swiss,
though they may be listed as German or French, They were Mennonites or close
relations.
>
> I have swiss matches at 1200 and possibly 1800 years separate. my closest know
Jewish(Ashkenazim) match is at least 2100 years away,  And the Swiss Identity is
only 500 years old, the Allemanic and German Identities are 1500. The Swiss,
Bavarian and Swabian Germans were for the most part Germanized Celts. So your Q
could be Fully Jewish, fully German, fully Swiss, or all the above.
>
> Quote:  Rebekah Canada
> DYF395S1 is a very slow changing marker. All Ashkenazi Jewish Q1b1a men have
DYF395SI = 15-18 or 15-19. Others, who are not Jews or who are other types of
Jews (Mizrachi, Sephardi, etc.) have different values.
>
> My values for DYF395S1 are 15-17
> So you should check those values or get them tested, beyond the National
Genographic Project, go to FTDna.com or 23andme.com
>
> --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "J" <jvonschilling@> wrote:
> >
> > I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that
I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.
> >
> > The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was
most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks.  He was
a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in
the suburbs with a wife and kids.  He had a Germanic last name and a story about
his background that has proven to be very dubious.
> >
> > I'm joining this group because of the following:
> >
> > (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since
other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.
> >
> > (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that
I found online for Ashkenazi-Q's.  The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a
value of 12 instead of 16.
> >
> > (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing
for those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)
> >
> > I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are
the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular.  My facial features are
a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's.  If I were in show biz, I
could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or
Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I
got from my father would seem to indicate.
> >
> > I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.
> >
> > Jim
> >
>

Thanks for the great advice, Dave, and I am taking the first two steps and will
look into testing more STRs.

I will be happy with ranking 4th on your wife's list, since I assume you're 3rd!

Jim

--- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <dshoward@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Dr. Jim,
>
> I found you at FamilyTreeDNA. At 12 markers you match me and 231 other people
exactly.
>
> As far as I can tell we are 99% Ashkenazi Jewish.
>
> I suggest you do the following for your next steps.
>
> 1. Join the Jewish_Q surname group at Family Tree DNA.
> 2. Join the Q Y-DNA group at Family Tree DNA.
> 3. You need to have more STRs tested. That means going from 12 markers to say
67. This will really reduce the number of exact matches.
> 4. At this time do not waste your time having SNPs tested. You will get far
more interesting information from having STRs tested.
> 5. If you are interested in your mother's background you might have your mtDNA
tested.
> 6. If you would like to find close relatives in the database then you should
join the Family Finder at Family Tree DNA and pay for that test. I think that
will replace or include #5.
> 7. If you are interested in health issues in your DNA then consider being
tested at 23andME.com.
>
> For sure do steps #1 and #2. They are free. Step #1 will let me help you. Step
#2 will let a whole group of interesting people help you.
>
> Do not worry about the L245. Your STRs will give you a good idea of your SNPs.
You are most likely Q1b1a.
>
> Dave Howard
> Group Administrator for Jewish_Q
> Moderator of this Group (Ashkenazi-Q)
>
> PS We enjoy your posts and there are some very nice, friendly, and helpful
people here. Some know 10x more about this stuff than I do.
>
> PS My wife thinks Frank Langella is the sexiest man in the world after Sean
Connery.
>
>
> --- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, "J" <jvonschilling@> wrote:
> >
> > I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that
I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.
> >
> > The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was
most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks.  He was
a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in
the suburbs with a wife and kids.  He had a Germanic last name and a story about
his background that has proven to be very dubious.
> >
> > I'm joining this group because of the following:
> >
> > (1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since
other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.
> >
> > (2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that
I found online for Ashkenazi-Q's.  The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a
value of 12 instead of 16.
> >
> > (I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing
for those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)
> >
> > I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are
the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular.  My facial features are
a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's.  If I were in show biz, I
could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or
Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I
got from my father would seem to indicate.
> >
> > I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.
> >
> > Jim
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: James Von Schilling

To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 4:40 AM

Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage

 

Thanks, Nadene, for all your good advice. Maybe my next step is to go for the 67 DNA test -- I just looked at the price list at Family Tree.

The catch with looking into the various listings of people named Von Schilling and Schilling is that I just don't know if my father had that name (either one) at birth or where his ancestors lived. But I did just register with the JewishGen website and started to explore the lists.

Jim

>>> "NADENE GOLDFOOT" 01/14/12 5:08 PM >>>
Jim,
My thoughts are: Go to the JewishGen website, http://www.jewishgen.org/, put in Germany for starterrs in the country, and you will see tons of information come up for Von Schilling. You can explore using your own facts of your genealogy. It'll take months to use all the available searches on this one free website.

Also, use the paid website of http://ancestry.com and use your name, Von Schilling, and see what there is. I just did and found a family in Brooklyn with the father from Belgium. There are tons and tons of Von Schillings listed there. You know that it will list the head of the family, and then tells what country the father was from and the mother of that head. That's another clue. You can also look for what language the spoke. It would be interesting to see if it was Hebrew or Yiddish. I saw a person that was listing as Schilling. It's possible that the original name was that, and that Von was added later. Anyway, see how far you can go with your Von Schilling surname till it goes into Europe and you can't search unless you go for the world option which is a little more expensive. That is great if you're doing an English/Welsh, Irish, Scottish search, but not so good on other countires. That's where JewishGen really comes in. It's amazing.
I actually found my Nathan Goldfus (first name was in Yiddish as Nokhum Goldfus) and I almost missed it as I was still thinking "Nathan". in Telsiai, Lithuania. My hint was that I have run across two other serious Goldfus researchers who also found their Goldfus person in Telsiai. That seemed to be the only place I have found Goldfus-in Lithuania.

The change may be when your ancestor had to go from example: Abraham, son of Nathan to Abraham Von Schilling. I've run across Jews coming to the USA who changed their (new) surnames to another one-like one person who used the name of his sponsor out of gratitude, or some such reason as evading the Russian draft.

If you have had the whole 67 allele dna test, you might go for the next test of your genes where you find people with segments of your genes. I had that done at 23&me because I got a sale price at the time, and you can see the countries their ancestors came from who are a match to you. It can give you more insight.
Nadene

----- Original Message -----
From: James Von Schilling
To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 3:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage

Hi Nadene,

Thanks for the info and also for the offer to help. The problem with doing the genealogy search is that I don't think the last name my father used was his original last name. There are people who are familiar with the background of the "Von Schilling" family, and we've had a little contact in the past. It just seems that their story is entirely different from the story my father told and that there's no place in their family history where my father seemed to fit in.

I've done some searching of census records, although maybe not as much as I could. Again, the problem is that I don't really know what last name my father had when he was growing up.

Jim

>>> "NADENE GOLDFOOT" 01/13/12 1:02 PM >>>
Hi Jim,
I just checked our alleles and my brother has the same results that you do on 439 and 385a. Our surname is Goldfoot, which is anglicized from Goldfus in Yiddish, Goldfuss in German. Jews were in Germany and from there branched out into Eastern Europe. ours went to Telsiai, Lithuania. After doing the 67 allele test and a few others we are listed as Q1b1 and are Ashkenazi Jewish. There are many surnames that are German and also Jewish with no connection between the two groups. This is true of Goldfoot. There is another group that are of a completely different haplogroup. Jews had to buy names eventually when the countries wanted taxes from the people, and were given a list to choose from, usually.

Luckily, my father and his mother and siblings were alive and we lived in the same city that he was born in. I've had to do a lot of searching to find the origins were Telsiai. The only hint I had was the 1910 census in that his father came from "Russia." My grandfather died in an accident in 1912. Have you done a genealogy search and check the census records carefully? If you need help in this, my email is goldfoot1@.... I'd be willing to help look for you if you contact me right away before my subsc to ancestry stops.

Nadene

----- Original Message -----
From: J
To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:25 AM
Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] My mysterious lineage

I just joined this group after finding out via the Genographic Project that I'm in Haplogroup Q - M242.

The mystery comes from the fact that my father, who died 50 years ago, was most likely an imposter who did a very good job of covering his tracks. He was a "Don Draper" (Mad Men on TV)-type guy, working on Wall Street and living in the suburbs with a wife and kids. He had a Germanic last name and a story about his background that has proven to be very dubious.

I'm joining this group because of the following:

(1) It makes sense that he might have been hiding a Jewish background, since other young men from that time (1920s) did the same thing.

(2) My DYS chart from the Genographic Project is almost a match to one that I found online for Ashkenazi-Q's. The only difference was DYS439 -- I have a value of 12 instead of 16.

(I also have a DYS385a of 14 and a DYS385b of 16, but there is no listing for those DYS's in the Ashkenazi-Q table I saw online.)

I realized awhile back that the only clues my Dad seemed to have left me are the ones I carry inside me -- and my DNA, in particular. My facial features are a little unusual -- somewhat like Frank Langella's. If I were in show biz, I could probably play a villain who's Spanish (which is my mom's lineage) or Arabic or Jewish or maybe even Asian -- but not the German that the last name I got from my father would seem to indicate.

I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.

Jim

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/92443/war-papers/?utm_sou\
re=T
This article is titled: Trove of Medieval Manuscripts could Shed New Light on
Afghanistan's Jewish Heritae.  It tells how the descendants of Jews displaced by
the fall of Jerusalem in 597 BCE lived there in a city known as Jahudan, or
al-Yahudan al-Kubra (the Great Jewry.  When Arab Muslim armies came into the are
in mid-8th century CE, they found this well-established Jewish community there
and renamed the town Maimana, or auspicious town.
Nadene Goldfoot

 

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/92443/war-papers/?utm_soure=T
This article is titled: Trove of Medieval Manuscripts could Shed New Light on Afghanistan's Jewish Heritae. It tells how the descendants of Jews displaced by the fall of Jerusalem in 597 BCE lived there in a city known as Jahudan, or al-Yahudan al-Kubra (the Great Jewry. When Arab Muslim armies came into the are in mid-8th century CE, they found this well-established Jewish community there and renamed the town Maimana, or auspicious town.
Nadene Goldfoot

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Horwitz

To: <Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com>

Cc: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 1:47 PM

Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] Our Q' on the Silk Road: Could Some Be From Afghanistan?

 

We think that the family name came from a Chek  city

Prior to that.   ??????

Sent from JERRY HORWITZ  

On Mar 4, 2012, at 4:34 PM, "goldfootn" <goldfoot1@...> wrote:

 

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/92443/war-papers/?utm_soure=T
This article is titled: Trove of Medieval Manuscripts could Shed New Light on Afghanistan's Jewish Heritae. It tells how the descendants of Jews displaced by the fall of Jerusalem in 597 BCE lived there in a city known as Jahudan, or al-Yahudan al-Kubra (the Great Jewry. When Arab Muslim armies came into the are in mid-8th century CE, they found this well-established Jewish community there and renamed the town Maimana, or auspicious town.
Nadene Goldfoot

Horwitz and Associates is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account activity contained in this communication. This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing or copying this communication is strictly prohibited. Thank you.

 

Hi Jerry,

That's the exciting part of having Q as your Y haplogroup.  We're 5% of the Jewish male population.  My brother tested as Q1b1 and I finally found my grandfather on http://www.jewishgen.org/ (free Jewish website) born in Telsiai, Lithuania.  No telling how long the family was there, but the question is: where did Q's come from before that, and the dna tells us Siberia, Mongolia and parts of Turkey.  There were Jewish group all along the Silk Road, and we figure some even may have had a connection to the Khazars of Khazaria's Royal Court.  I don't know if we'll ever learn but it's fun finding information about Jews living in these exotic places.  

Nadene Goldfoot

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Horwitz

To: <Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com>

Cc: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 1:47 PM

Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] Our Q' on the Silk Road: Could Some Be From Afghanistan?

 

We think that the family name came from a Chek  city

Prior to that.   ??????

Sent from JERRY HORWITZ  

On Mar 4, 2012, at 4:34 PM, "goldfootn" <goldfoot1@...> wrote:

 

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/92443/war-papers/?utm_soure=T
This article is titled: Trove of Medieval Manuscripts could Shed New Light on Afghanistan's Jewish Heritae. It tells how the descendants of Jews displaced by the fall of Jerusalem in 597 BCE lived there in a city known as Jahudan, or al-Yahudan al-Kubra (the Great Jewry. When Arab Muslim armies came into the are in mid-8th century CE, they found this well-established Jewish community there and renamed the town Maimana, or auspicious town.
Nadene Goldfoot

Horwitz and Associates is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account activity contained in this communication. This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing or copying this communication is strictly prohibited. Thank you.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Horwitz

To: <Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com>

Cc: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 3:46 PM

Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] Our Q' on the Silk Road: Could Some Be From Afghanistan?

 

Spain played into our history?

Dave Howard shud have Some input to all of this

Sent from JERRY HORWITZ  

On Mar 4, 2012, at 5:57 PM, "NADENE GOLDFOOT" <goldfoot1@...> wrote:

 

Hi Jerry,

That's the exciting part of having Q as your Y haplogroup.  We're 5% of the Jewish male population.  My brother tested as Q1b1 and I finally found my grandfather on http://www.jewishgen.org/ (free Jewish website) born in Telsiai, Lithuania.  No telling how long the family was there, but the question is: where did Q's come from before that, and the dna tells us Siberia, Mongolia and parts of Turkey.  There were Jewish group all along the Silk Road, and we figure some even may have had a connection to the Khazars of Khazaria's Royal Court.  I don't know if we'll ever learn but it's fun finding information about Jews living in these exotic places.  

Nadene Goldfoot

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Horwitz

To: <Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com>

Cc: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 1:47 PM

Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] Our Q' on the Silk Road: Could Some Be From Afghanistan?

 

We think that the family name came from a Chek  city

Prior to that.   ??????

Sent from JERRY HORWITZ  

On Mar 4, 2012, at 4:34 PM, "goldfootn" <goldfoot1@...> wrote:

 

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/92443/war-papers/?utm_soure=T
This article is titled: Trove of Medieval Manuscripts could Shed New Light on Afghanistan's Jewish Heritae. It tells how the descendants of Jews displaced by the fall of Jerusalem in 597 BCE lived there in a city known as Jahudan, or al-Yahudan al-Kubra (the Great Jewry. When Arab Muslim armies came into the are in mid-8th century CE, they found this well-established Jewish community there and renamed the town Maimana, or auspicious town.
Nadene Goldfoot

Horwitz and Associates is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account activity contained in this communication. This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing or copying this communication is strictly prohibited. Thank you.

Horwitz and Associates is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account activity contained in this communication. This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing or copying this communication is strictly prohibited. Thank you.

 

Spain?  Where did I say that?  Nadene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Horwitz

To: <Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com>

Cc: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 3:46 PM

Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] Our Q' on the Silk Road: Could Some Be From Afghanistan?

 

Spain played into our history?

Dave Howard shud have Some input to all of this

Sent from JERRY HORWITZ  

On Mar 4, 2012, at 5:57 PM, "NADENE GOLDFOOT" <goldfoot1@...> wrote:

 

Hi Jerry,

That's the exciting part of having Q as your Y haplogroup.  We're 5% of the Jewish male population.  My brother tested as Q1b1 and I finally found my grandfather on http://www.jewishgen.org/ (free Jewish website) born in Telsiai, Lithuania.  No telling how long the family was there, but the question is: where did Q's come from before that, and the dna tells us Siberia, Mongolia and parts of Turkey.  There were Jewish group all along the Silk Road, and we figure some even may have had a connection to the Khazars of Khazaria's Royal Court.  I don't know if we'll ever learn but it's fun finding information about Jews living in these exotic places.  

Nadene Goldfoot

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Horwitz

To: <Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com>

Cc: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 1:47 PM

Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] Our Q' on the Silk Road: Could Some Be From Afghanistan?

 

We think that the family name came from a Chek  city

Prior to that.   ??????

Sent from JERRY HORWITZ  

On Mar 4, 2012, at 4:34 PM, "goldfootn" <goldfoot1@...> wrote:

 

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/92443/war-papers/?utm_soure=T
This article is titled: Trove of Medieval Manuscripts could Shed New Light on Afghanistan's Jewish Heritae. It tells how the descendants of Jews displaced by the fall of Jerusalem in 597 BCE lived there in a city known as Jahudan, or al-Yahudan al-Kubra (the Great Jewry. When Arab Muslim armies came into the are in mid-8th century CE, they found this well-established Jewish community there and renamed the town Maimana, or auspicious town.
Nadene Goldfoot

Horwitz and Associates is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account activity contained in this communication. This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing or copying this communication is strictly prohibited. Thank you.

Horwitz and Associates is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account activity contained in this communication. This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing or copying this communication is strictly prohibited. Thank you.

Hi, I got my dna results recently and was kinda of surprised,because I belong to
relatively old Arabic tribe in Saudi Arabia. I tried looking up info on q1b1a,
but all that I can seem to find is general info on the main group Q, saying that
originated 15,000-20,000 years ago etc. I'm wondering when did the q1b1a
subgroup originate ? and where ?

Nawaf,

Hi all,

Spain specifically plays a role in the history of the name Horowitz, but there
are a few complications with this story.

The original "Ish-Horowitz" was a Sephardi-cum-Ashkenazi Jew from the town of
Horovice, Bohemia (now Czech Repblic). It was presumed that all Horowitzes,
Gurevitches, Horwitzes, Hurwitzes, etc. were descended from this famous
Spanish-Czech-German-Polish family. But most Horowitzes are R1a, and a minority
(though a solid one) are Q1b. I think it remains to be seen to which clade
Ish-Horowitz himself belonged.

R1a is quite common--by my estimates, 234% more common than Q1b among Jewish
men. So it's really a question of how prodigious Horowitz really was vs. how
many unrelated men assumed the name when Jews had to take last names; that's
leaving aside the obvious question of non-paternity somewhere along the line.

I think if Horowitzes prove to have a closer genetic affinity to the Sephardic
subclades of Q1b, it might provide some insight into the ultimate origins of
your lineage. While my name obviously isn't Horowitz, I do seem to have a number
of autosomal matches with a number of Horowitzes who share my Q1b, so I've been
doing some research into this.

--D. J. Waletzky



--- In Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Horwitz <GAH@...> wrote:
>
> Spain played into our history?
> Dave Howard shud have Some input to all of this
>
> Sent from JERRY HORWITZ
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2012, at 5:57 PM, "NADENE GOLDFOOT"
<goldfoot1@...<mailto:goldfoot1@...>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Jerry,
> That's the exciting part of having Q as your Y haplogroup.  We're 5% of the
Jewish male population.  My brother tested as Q1b1 and I finally found my
grandfather on http://www.jewishgen.org/ (free Jewish website) born in Telsiai,
Lithuania.  No telling how long the family was there, but the question is: where
did Q's come from before that, and the dna tells us Siberia, Mongolia and parts
of Turkey.  There were Jewish group all along the Silk Road, and we figure some
even may have had a connection to the Khazars of Khazaria's Royal Court.  I
don't know if we'll ever learn but it's fun finding information about Jews
living in these exotic places.
> Nadene Goldfoot
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gerald Horwitz<mailto:GAH@...>
> To: <Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com><mailto:Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com>>
> Cc: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 1:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] Our Q' on the Silk Road: Could Some Be From
Afghanistan?
>
>
>
> We think that the family name came from a Chek  city
> Prior to that.   ??????
>
> Sent from JERRY HORWITZ
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2012, at 4:34 PM, "goldfootn" <goldfoot1@...<mailto:goldfoot1@...>>
wrote:
>
>
>
>
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/92443/war-papers/?utm_sou\
re=T
> This article is titled: Trove of Medieval Manuscripts could Shed New Light on
Afghanistan's Jewish Heritae. It tells how the descendants of Jews displaced by
the fall of Jerusalem in 597 BCE lived there in a city known as Jahudan, or
al-Yahudan al-Kubra (the Great Jewry. When Arab Muslim armies came into the are
in mid-8th century CE, they found this well-established Jewish community there
and renamed the town Maimana, or auspicious town.
> Nadene Goldfoot
>
>
> Horwitz and Associates is not responsible for any recommendation,
solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction,
customer account or account activity contained in this communication. This
message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is
addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and
exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is
not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering
it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that reading,
disseminating, distributing or copying this communication is strictly
prohibited. Thank you.
>
>
> Horwitz and Associates is not responsible for any recommendation,
solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction,
customer account or account activity contained in this communication. This
message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is
addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and
exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is
not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering
it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that reading,
disseminating, distributing or copying this communication is strictly
prohibited. Thank you.
>

----- Original Message -----

From: king harold

To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 4:47 PM

Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] How old the is the subgroup Q1b1a ?

 

Hello Nawaf:

 

It might seem strange at first but when you study ancient middle eastern history one thing stands out; The history of the Near East is just a list of  human migrations (invasions). The Hittites and  Hyksos, were non-semetic and likely from central Asia, the Medes, the Persians, the Turks (Altaics and could be a reasonable Q contribution).

 

It goes to show you that can never really know exactly who you are...

 

Brian

 

 

From: Nawaf <qamh2002@...>
To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 1:42 AM
Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] How old the is the subgroup Q1b1a ?

 

Hi, I got my dna results recently and was kinda of surprised,because I belong to relatively old Arabic tribe in Saudi Arabia. I tried looking up info on q1b1a, but all that I can seem to find is general info on the main group Q, saying that originated 15,000-20,000 years ago etc. I'm wondering when did the q1b1a subgroup originate ? and where ?

Nawaf,

----- Original Message -----

From: NADENE GOLDFOOT

To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 5:28 PM

Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] How old the is the subgroup Q1b1a ?

 



Hi Nawaf and Brian, we have found Ashkenazi Jews with Q1b1a like my father's line.  5% of Jews today are of Q1b1, and Jews make up a small % of the world population, less than 1%.  Jews were in Saudi Arabia living in Medina, etc.  There had been two expulsions at different periods from Jerusalem where they were taken captive, and in the trek or something, managed to live there.  So it's possible your ancestor  was of a tribe of Jews that had converted.  I know, I was surprised, too.  Nadene

----- Original Message -----

From: king harold

To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 4:47 PM

Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] How old the is the subgroup Q1b1a ?

 

Hello Nawaf:

 

It might seem strange at first but when you study ancient middle eastern history one thing stands out; The history of the Near East is just a list of  human migrations (invasions). The Hittites and  Hyksos, were non-semetic and likely from central Asia, the Medes, the Persians, the Turks (Altaics and could be a reasonable Q contribution).

 

It goes to show you that can never really know exactly who you are...

 

Brian

 

 

From: Nawaf <qamh2002@...>
To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 1:42 AM
Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] How old the is the subgroup Q1b1a ?

 

Hi, I got my dna results recently and was kinda of surprised,because I belong to relatively old Arabic tribe in Saudi Arabia. I tried looking up info on q1b1a, but all that I can seem to find is general info on the main group Q, saying that originated 15,000-20,000 years ago etc. I'm wondering when did the q1b1a subgroup originate ? and where ?

Nawaf,

----- Original Message -----

From: king harold

To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 6:59 PM

Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] How old the is the subgroup Q1b1a ?

 

It would be unrealistic to think that arabic tribes native to Arabia did not mix and occasionally experience intermariage with newcomers from central asia (hittites, turks, indoeuropean persians, etc)

---

From: NADENE GOLDFOOT <goldfoot1@...>;
To: <Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] How old the is the subgroup Q1b1a ?
Sent: Tue, May 15, 2012 12:28:29 AM

 Hi Nawaf and Brian, we have found Ashkenazi Jews with Q1b1a like my father's line.  5% of Jews today are of Q1b1, and Jews make up a small % of the world population, less than 1%.  Jews were in Saudi Arabia living in Medina, etc.  There had been two expulsions at different periods from Jerusalem where they were taken captive, and in the trek or something, managed to live there.  So it's possible your ancestor  was of a tribe of Jews that had converted.  I know, I was surprised, too.  Nadene ----- Original Message ----- From: king harold To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [Ashkenazi-Q] How old the is the subgroup Q1b1a ?   Hello Nawaf:   It might seem strange at first but when you study ancient middle eastern history one thing stands out; The history of the Near East is just a list of  human migrations (invasions). The Hittites and  Hyksos, were non-semetic and likely from central Asia, the Medes, the Persians, the Turks (Altaics and could be a reasonable Q contribution).   It goes to show you that can never really know exactly who you are...   Brian     From: Nawaf <qamh2002@...> To: Ashkenazi-Q@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 1:42 AM Subject: [Ashkenazi-Q] How old the is the subgroup Q1b1a ?   Hi, I got my dna results recently and was kinda of surprised,because I belong to relatively old Arabic tribe in Saudi Arabia. I tried looking up info on q1b1a, but all that I can seem to find is general info on the main group Q, saying that originated 15,000-20,000 years ago etc. I'm wondering when did the q1b1a subgroup originate ? and where ? Nawaf,