---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:53:58 -0500
From: Joseph Bloch <bloch@...>
To: Manny Olds <oldsma@...>
Subject: RE: Asatru-U Beginner's Course

> We will be digging into the intermediate course next. We plan
> to get more into details of the variations of practice, so I
> really hope you will be able to participate in that. We will
> certainly be including links to Gersey pages in the course material.

Thanks for the thought, but Gers Ey is on indefinite hiatus, and the website
is down until further notice.

Ulfgrim

Greetings,

     My name is Eric and I live in Los Angeles in the USA.  Your web
site on
Asatru is very inspiring.  I am 23 years old and have travelled the
spiritual
"seas" in search of the "right" spirituality almost endlessly, as Im
sure
many of us have.  Frankly Im tired of the fruitless "traveling"  and
realized
I must return home to find what I seek.  It seems that my ancestral
gods (I
am of Celtic descent) have caused the winds to blow me to the
discovery of
Asatru.  I have searched many Astatru websites and they all describe
the same
inner calling back to ones ancestral gods, which I myself am
exeriencing very
heavily at this time and I wish to answer it.  Its funny how the
maxim of:
"Everything u seek is within"....is so true.  I began my discovery of
Asatru
through a personal interest in the berserker warriors (specifially
the actual
berserkergangr) of Odin, little did I know where it was taking me to
my
surprise!
Anyway, I am currently seeking ways to establish my connection to the
Gods of
my ancestors through ritual and ceremony as well as Kinship with
others, but
cant seem to find any local Kindred in my area.....If u could provide
me with
any information on any of these subjects, I would appreciate it
greatly.
Thank you and many blessings.

On Thu, 1 Mar 2001 wkswthoutsnd@... wrote:

  ) Greetings,

Hello.

  ) My name is Eric and I live in Los Angeles in the USA.  Your web site
  ) on Asatru is very inspiring.

Thank you. It's good to know we have at least one satisfied customer.

If you have specific questions about Asatru, however, this is not the best
place to ask them. Our topic course development. The outline for the
Beginner's Course contains some pointers to more general-interest Asatru
lists where you can find out more about the religion.

  ) Anyway, I am currently seeking ways to establish my connection to
  ) the Gods of my ancestors through ritual and ceremony as well as
  ) Kinship with others, but cant seem to find any local Kindred in my
  ) area.....If u could provide me with any information on any of these
  ) subjects, I would appreciate it greatly.

There is a contact list available at http://www.irminsul.org/. It's not
100% accurate (it tends to include old entries), but it is a good place to
start. Or perhaps someone on this list can plug you in to the network
off-list.


Manny Olds (oldsma@...) of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA
Holder of the Clipboard

Reeves Hall of Frigga's Web (http://www.reeves-hall.org)
Frigga's Web (http://www.friggasweb.org)

Thanks for the information....I would also like to learn the besics of Asatru
where I can.. THanks

Manny Olds wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 Kadlin wrote:
>
>  ) For that matter, is anyone working on the intermediate course
>  ) generally?
>
> Not actively. It's waiting for us to see where "Novice" stops.

As far as I'm concerned, "Novice" has just about come to a stop.  I'd
really like to see people get their final comments in, if any, and we
need to check all the links again (as Rick mentioned).

I'm going to be kind of busy for the next few weeks, so here's my
proposal: anyone who has any further suggestions about the Novice
course should get them in before March 15.  Speak now or forever hold
your peace!  After that, we can make any final changes to the course
& get it posted wherever it's going to wind up-- I presume somewhere
on the Frigga's Web site.

Again, please make sure you are reading & commenting on the most
recent iteration of the course, 6b, which is at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Asatru-U/files/Beginner/AUnovice%
2Bv_6b.htm

As for checking the links: I just went through the links in Part
A "What is Asatru?" and found two of them down, the link
for "Frigga's Web FAQ" and the link for the "Four Bedposts of
Asatru."  Manny, did I somehow reincorporate old URL's, or have you
been doing some rearranging of your site?

I hope someone will volunteer to check the rest of the links-- as I
said, I'm going to be busy, and my web access is via blindingly slow
dial-up, so it is unusually time consuming for me to check the
links.  To save time later, if you find a broken link, please
put "broken link" in your subject line.

Many thanks to all!

--Kadlin

The servers had some kind of aneurysm this afternoon. The file names will
be the same once everything is fixed:

   http://www.reeves-hall.org/<whatever>



Manny Olds (oldsma@...) of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA

"Fools show their anger at once, but the prudent ignore an insult."
  -- Proverbs 12:16

Hi all-

My last thoughts:

Intro:

'The Asatru University Novice Committee'

As this is a signature, I would put it on a separate line from the preceding
text.

1. Course topics/A:

I would suggest the word-hoards and eth notes be a separate section
somewhere. Too detailed for section A.

B. I would remove the quote from the Voluspa. It seems too obtuse for the
beginner's course.

C. "Take note of which of the gods are "Æsir," which are "Vanir, " and which
are neither-- this will help you get a handle on their natures."

Do we establish their natures? The similarities between those of each group
and the differences between the two groups? I would leave for the
intermediate.

"Then Gangleri asked: "Who are the gods men ought to believe in?"
High One replied: "The divine gods are twelve in number."
Just-As-High added: "The goddesses are no less sacred and no less powerful."
                ---The Prose Edda, Gylfaginning; Jean Young translation, p.
48."

Well, we have a lot more than twelve listed in the suggested links. These
bits are nice touches, but are they geared to the beginner?

E. I am very uncomfortable with introducing the concept of prayer in the
beginner's course without more explanation: Prayer is not supplication.

H. (As in McCarthyism): This is unnecessary.

I. "These articles will acquaint you with what a sumbel is and what expect
at one"

change to: what to expect at one.

J. "The Elder Futhark With Sound (RA Format): Pronunciations of the Runes
Rune names by Klaus Düwel, pronunciations by Answin. Site by Óðindís
http://www.angelfire.com/on/Wodensharrow/elderfuthark.html Warning: because
of the sound files (as well as heavy use of graphics), the site may cause
some web browsers to crash.

Is this really true or necessary?

"The Return of the Völva: Recovering the Practice of Seið
by Diana L. Paxon
http://www.vinland.org/heathen/hrafnar/seidh.html
      A user-friendly article written for the periodical Mountain Thunder, "

As MT no longer exists, referencing it in the above may cause unnecessary
confusion. I spent a good deal of time looking for it.

Spae-Craft, Seiðr, and Shamanism
by Kveldúlfr Gundarsson
http://www.thetroth.org/kveld/Spaekrft.htm
      An article by Gundarsson from Idunna, The Troth's magazine, it's not
for the faint of heart, as it includes heavy scholarship and passages in
Norse, Anglo-Saxon, etc. However, do not be intimidated by the fact that it
begins with over thirty lines in Old Norse-- the translation is right
underneath it.

Seems a bit negative way to suggest a link. If it is too heavy duty, move it
to the intermediate. Otherwise I would drop:

it's not for the faint of heart, as /heavy scholarship and /
However, do not be intimidated by the fact that it begins with over thirty
lines in Old Norse-- the translation is right underneath it.

3. Orgs

I'd drop Skertru and  Heidni; Midhnot Sol could be updated as they have
reorganized and have their own discussion group as well as their text
resources.

4. Links to discussion groups

I found this group; 100+ members; I have not looked at them at all. I
thought we were dropping ARA.

http://www.egroups.com/group/Asatru

Most excellent work in the course. My thanks to all who have participated.

Will we have a formal process of approval when done?

Rick

Rick wrote:

> Spae-Craft, Seiðr, and Shamanism
> by Kveldúlfr Gundarsson
> http://www.thetroth.org/kveld/Spaekrft.htm
>      An article by Gundarsson from Idunna, The Troth's magazine, it's not
> for the faint of heart, as it includes heavy scholarship and passages in
> Norse, Anglo-Saxon, etc. However, do not be intimidated by the fact that it
> begins with over thirty lines in Old Norse-- the translation is right
> underneath it.
>
> Seems a bit negative way to suggest a link. If it is too heavy duty, move it
> to the intermediate. Otherwise I would drop:
>
> it's not for the faint of heart, as /heavy scholarship and /
> However, do not be intimidated by the fact that it begins with over thirty
> lines in Old Norse-- the translation is right underneath it.
>

Either of these choices is fine for me.  I suggested the link way back when I
had only a hazy idea of what the paramaters of the Beginners Course would be,
especially regarding the Intermed. Crs. to come.  While I think that any
beginner who will have the motivation to do the entire course will be able to
handle the material presented, it's deep enough to be appropriate in the next
course.

Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rick A. Riedlinger wrote:

> 1. Course topics/A:
>
> I would suggest the word-hoards and eth notes be a separate section
> somewhere. Too detailed for section A.

I disagree.  If it isn't in the beginning, it might be missed (people
read web pages from the top down) and beginners are the ones who need
the information.  It is needed immediately, because there are
articles in every section (including A) which use eth and thorn.
Like the word-hoards, it is there for reference-- which is explained
in the intro to the section.

>
> B. I would remove the quote from the Voluspa. It seems too obtuse
for the
> beginner's course.

I echo Tim's question-- can anyone come up with anything better?

>
> C. "Take note of which of the gods are "Æsir," which are "Vanir, "
and which
> are neither-- this will help you get a handle on their natures."
>
> Do we establish their natures? The similarities between those of
each group
> and the differences between the two groups? I would leave for the
> intermediate.

I disagree here as well-- while we don't "establish" the nature of
the gods, but we do tell users to read the stories about them.  I
think that pointing out the existence of the catagories from the get-
go is going to save people time later on.

>
> "Then Gangleri asked: "Who are the gods men ought to believe in?"
> High One replied: "The divine gods are twelve in number."
> Just-As-High added: "The goddesses are no less sacred and no less
powerful."
>                ---The Prose Edda, Gylfaginning; Jean Young
translation, p.
> 48."
>
> Well, we have a lot more than twelve listed in the suggested links.
These
> bits are nice touches, but are they geared to the beginner?

The first link lists about 15 *gods* but some of them are explained
as possibly being the same being as another god already listed.  The
reason I like the quote is the "the goddesses are no less sacred"
line.  Perhaps it could be incorporated into the intro to the section
without having to quote the prior line.

As for the quotes in general being "geared to the beginner"-- I
suppose that it depends on the beginner.  Personally, I think they
help to show that all this stuff comes from the lore more or less
indirectly.  I think if people don't get it, they will either (1)
file it away to figure out later or (2) ignore it.

>
> E. I am very uncomfortable with introducing the concept of prayer
in the
> beginner's course without more explanation: Prayer is not
supplication.

Is this not made clear in the materials which have been linked to in
the course?  If not, perhaps something is lacking.  Also, I think
that many beginners are extremely interested in prayer in the heathen
context, and it would not serve them well to remain silent on the
issue.  Would you be more comfortable with "homework" of writing
an "invocation" rather than a "prayer"?


>
> J. "The Elder Futhark With Sound (RA Format): Pronunciations of the
Runes
> Rune names by Klaus Düwel, pronunciations by Answin. Site by Óðindís
> http://www.angelfire.com/on/Wodensharrow/elderfuthark.html Warning:
because
> of the sound files (as well as heavy use of graphics), the site may
cause
> some web browsers to crash.
>
> Is this really true or necessary?

It is true (go back and check the archive discussion of this link).
In fact, it made my browser crash until I turned off Java.  As to
necessary-- as a person who sometimes uses a rather old computer with
a web browser that does crash, I personally would like the warning.
(Note to techies reading this: browser cannot be updated because
computer wouldn't be able to handle it.) With some web browsers, if
one has been saving bookmarks and the browser crashes, the bookmarks
created in that session are gone, which is annoying.  Perhaps the
warning should be changed to "Warning to those with older
computers/browsers"?  Then affected people would know to take
appropriate action before following the link.  I don't think we can
assume that everyone using the course is using a good computer to
surf the web, or even their own computer.  For all we know, they are
dialed in on a 10 year old computer with a 2400 baud modem and a text-
only browser.  (Which describes the computer my cousin uses at home.)
>
> "The Return of the Völva: Recovering the Practice of Seið
> by Diana L. Paxon
> http://www.vinland.org/heathen/hrafnar/seidh.html
>      A user-friendly article written for the periodical Mountain
Thunder, "
>
> As MT no longer exists, referencing it in the above may cause
unnecessary
> confusion. I spent a good deal of time looking for it.
Although it is no longer published, I believe it has a web-page with
other back articles at http://vinland.org/heathen/mt/.  Most of the
articles are not for beginners, which is why I didn't include a link
to it.  Part of the reason that I included details like what
publication various articles came from is to help people find things
on their own should they encounter a broken link and have the
determination to figure out where the material was moved to.  It is
also a way of helping other people who will be updating the outline
find articles when links are broken.  (A kind of built-in
documentation.)


>I thought we were dropping ARA.

I missed that, if so.  Anyone remember?

> Will we have a formal process of approval when done?

The way I see it, this is it.  Silence = approval.  (As of *now*
there is one week remaining for commentary.)  I don't think we will
need further discussion of anything which is not brought to the
attention of the list before midnight on the 15th.  I think we need
to get this course done and get it posted where people can use it.

I final comment on "saving" things for the intermediate course:  As I
see it, we shouldn't do it until there actually is an intermediate
course.  Then we can do an update of this one & make it fit a little
better (by then we will have broken links to fix and so forth
anyway.)  I believe that everything currently in the course is fairly
basic, and to the extent that it is more complicated, it is further
down in the outline.  Since we are dealing with self-study here, I
suspect most people will just skip materials that are too difficult
for them and move on.

Thanks to all who have sent comments thus far!

--Kadlin

--- kadlinw@... wrote:
> I final comment on "saving" things for the
> intermediate course:  I believe that everything >
currently in the
> course is fairly
> basic, and to the extent that it is more
> complicated, it is further
> down in the outline.  Since we are dealing with
> self-study here, I
> suspect most people will just skip materials that
> are too difficult
> for them and move on.
>
> Thanks to all who have sent comments thus far!



Heilsa Kadlin,

Well you are right in the guess that my silence is
approval. :)

This just popped into my head.... If for some reason
links go down, and it is not because the person/org.
is moving to a different server. What is the
likelyhood of us being able to get a copy of those
pages that we use as reference and place it on a site
that is not going to disapear? Has this been discussed
with the sites that we are interacting with? Do we
have alternative sites to use as reference material?
Are these alt. sites up to par with what we have now?

Should we maintain AU novice as a spot where novices
can go and get questions answered, or are we dropping
this in there laps and telling them to have fun?

Just some random thoughts...

Wassail!
Mike Normand

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, Mike Normand wrote:

  ) This just popped into my head.... If for some reason
  ) links go down, and it is not because the person/org.
  ) is moving to a different server. What is the
  ) likelyhood of us being able to get a copy of those
  ) pages that we use as reference and place it on a site
  ) that is not going to disapear? Has this been discussed
  ) with the sites that we are interacting with? Do we
  ) have alternative sites to use as reference material?
  ) Are these alt. sites up to par with what we have now?

We lost Gers Ey. The group is "on hiatus" and the web site is gone. I
think it is mostly a problem for the Intermediate.


Manny Olds (oldsma@...) of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA

Sometimes you give a guy a fish, sometimes you teach him to fish,
sometimes you establish a fisherman training school, and sometimes you
have to let him find his own solution.

Well, I haven't done much in the way of looking over the beginner's class
systematically. At least, not recently. Certainly not enough to be making
any significant last minute suggestions.

But today I noticed a typo.

"Diana L. Paxon" should be "Diana L. Paxson". (She's the author of one
of the articles in section J.)

I think I'm looking at the latest version.

So then I started scanning for more easy to miss typos, and sure enough, we
have a glossary "complied" by Haukur Thorgeirrson rather than _compiled_
by him. (Section A.) And the "Wordhoard" got "complied" too ... this also
should be "compiled".

We also have a lot of cases with multiple articles by what appear to be the
same person, but more than one form of their name being used. This kind of
makes sense if they used different forms on different articles ... but it
still looks rather odd. (People who I think appear with multiple forms of
their names: Swain, Arlea, Kveldulf, Winifred.)

Sorry about picking at typos rather than anything more substantive. But that's
all I'm noticing.

And a case of peculiar alphabetization ... It looks like "The Troth" got
alphabetized as "Ring of Troth" and not moved when the name got corrected.
(Really, I'm not pointing this out to get The Troth earlier in the reverse
alphabetical list ... actually, the effect of moving it made me think maybe
I shouldn't point out the oddity, since I'm kind of actively involved with
that group.)

--
Arlie

(Arlie Stephens                                       arlie@...)

Nothing like a deadline to get me actually doing something...

Least things first: I have a number of niggles that range from the trivial
(comma splices, inconsistent punctuation and capitalization) to the minor
(word usage, sentence structure).  Rather than inundate the list with these,
I suggest either that 1) I send the whole pestiferous list to the
longsuffering Kadlin or 2) she send me the current version, which I would
then edit and return to her for posting on the Website and review by the
list.  It would be helpful to know if people would prefer that "heathen" be
capitalized, though.

On to more substantial issues...

General comment: I think it would be very helpful to list the outline
headings to serve as a table of contents right at the beginning, viz.

1. Course Topics
     A. What is Asatru?
     B. Wyrd and Orlog
     C. Gods and Other Etins

etc.

I also think the course would be much easier to navigate if each section
were housed on a separate page; the "table of contents" outline could then
be a list of links that takes readers to the appropriate topic page.

1.B. Rick objected to the suggested quote as too obscure.  A possible
alternative:

"The ash [Yggdrasil] is of all trees the biggest and best.  Its branches
spread out over all the world and extend across the sky... The third root of
the ash extends to heaven, and beneath that root is a well which is very
holy, called Weird's well."  -Prose Edda, Faulkes translation, p. 17.

1.C. Rick also challenged the quote for this section.  I agree with him, in
my case because I don't like Snorri's too-pat system.  A more chaotic
alternative might be:

"Hail to you, gods!  ye goddesses, hail!
Hail to the holy throng!"

-Lokasenna, Poetic Edda, Bellows' translation

1.C. again - should "Foreseti" be "Forseti"?  (I don't know if this is a
variant spelling or a typo.)

1.D.  I think that claiming that learning about the disir will teach people
more about heathenry than learning about the gods is going too far - this
depends more on what calls to the student than anything else.  I suggest
simply dropping the last sentence in the description of Winifred's article.

1.D. continued - with Gers Ey gone, the description of my article needs to
be revised.  Suggested new text, which pirates the old:

Explains the early Icelandic ritual of land-taking.  This article is based
primarily on the Landna'mabo'k (a 13th-century Icelandic work) and explains
how this information can be adapted to the needs of modern Asatruar.
Includes descriptions of two rituals of this type in which the author has
participated.

1.J.  For Mountain Thunder (mentioned in the description of Diana Paxson's
article), link to:

http://www.vinland.org/heathen/mt/

This site describes the magazine's history and also provides on-line text
for many of the original articles.

1.J. again.  Rick thought the description of Kveldulf's spae-craft article
was unduly negative.  Suggested alternative:

Written by a Ph.D. in Norse studies, this article is scholarly and very
well-researched. Includes numerous quotes from primary sources (with
translations).

Saction 3. Organizations.  I believe Midhnott Sol calls its organization the
"Midhnott Soll Regintroth".

Wassail,

Groa

Ann Groa Sheffield
Medoburg Kindred
www.medoburg.org

Arlie Stephens wrote:
> But today I noticed a typo.
Good eye!

> We also have a lot of cases with multiple articles by what appear
> to be the same person, but more than one form of their name being
> used. This kind of makes sense if they used different forms on
> different articles ... but it still looks rather odd.
In every case, I always used the form of the name that is used on the
attribution for the article.  There are two reasons for this:
1) Again, as sort of a "self-documentation"-- allows someone to track
the article down if the link ever breaks.
2) To avoid having to contact all these people and determine the
preferred form of their name.  I figure, if a person puts down a
given form of their name on their work, who am I to change they way
they have chosen to identify themselves?

--Kadlin

Ann Sheffield wrote:
> I also think the course would be much easier to navigate if each
> section were housed on a separate page; the "table of contents"
> outline could then be a list of links that takes readers to the
> appropriate topic page.

This is true if the course is going to be used online.  I agree that
the page is hard to navigate!  But, if it is more likely that people
are going to print out the course and the various materials that they
like and then stick it in a binder or something for offline study,
then it would be better to have it as one big document.  Which do you
folks all think is more likely?

Perhaps we should have both-- individual pages for the sections, and
also a "printer friendly" version.

Great suggestions, particularly with respect to the suggestions for
quotations.

--Kadlin

>From: kadlinw@...


>This is true if the course is going to be used online.  I agree that
>the page is hard to navigate!  But, if it is more likely that people
>are going to print out the course and the various materials that they
>like and then stick it in a binder or something for offline study,
>then it would be better to have it as one big document.  Which do you
>folks all think is more likely?

I have found that the idea of transferece of media generally appals most
people, such to the extent that people who read things on-line don't much
care for paper resources (such as myself), especially, when that resource is
already in a form which takes no storage space in a physical sense.  The
on-line format also supports search for text strings, which is difficult to
do in a book.

I find it highly unlikely that it would be printed off, except by those who
are used to doing research with paper (unlike me); in which case, they would
simply click each link in sucession and print the materials they need,
rather than getting the whole kit and kaboodle.  You can offer a text-only
version all on one page, for these people, as one of these links, as you
suggest:

>Perhaps we should have both-- individual pages for the sections, and
>also a "printer friendly" version.

Sounds good.  Although, it should be labeled "For Luddite Antiquarians"
rather than "Printer-Friendly."  ;-)  I mean, after all, if they're
researching on-line, why would you want to print it off?  ;-)


'/\` Frith upon your house
//\\ Karl Donaldsson
\\// mekboy@...
`\/' http://i.am/mekboy
--------------------------------------------
Member of the Kindred of Ravenswood
Zionsville, Indiana  USA
http://www.iquest.net/~chaviland/Rindex.html
---------------------------------------------
To Vali!  To Vengeance!  To Honor!  To Kin!

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Karl Donaldsson wrote:

  ) Sounds good.  Although, it should be labeled "For Luddite
  ) Antiquarians"  rather than "Printer-Friendly."  ;-)  I mean, after
  ) all, if they're researching on-line, why would you want to print it
  ) off?  ;-)

I am familiar with the guidelines for designing web pages to be good with
Lynx and for handicap-assist devices. Is anyone up on Palm-compatible
design? I'd bet we are good for that, but we ought to check.


Manny Olds (oldsma@...) of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA

Sometimes you give a guy a fish, sometimes you teach him to fish,
sometimes you establish a fisherman training school, and sometimes you
have to let him find his own solution.

>From: Manny Olds <oldsma@...>

>I am familiar with the guidelines for designing web pages to be good with
>Lynx and for handicap-assist devices. Is anyone up on Palm-compatible
>design? I'd bet we are good for that, but we ought to check.

OOH!  I'd love to have all this stuff on my Cassiopeia E-11 PDA, that would
be super-spiffy!  Someone more techno-geek than I, could encode it?

I also have pages through AvantGo (http://www.avantgo.com), which are
similar to channels -- would this be easier?  Does the enconding differ, or
is it easier?

My little 32 MB compact flash card would be an ideal place to store all
manner of references and lore!


'/\` Frith upon your house
//\\ Karl Donaldsson
\\// mekboy@...
`\/' http://i.am/mekboy
--------------------------------------------
Member of the Kindred of Ravenswood
Zionsville, Indiana  USA
http://www.iquest.net/~chaviland/Rindex.html
---------------------------------------------
To Vali!  To Vengeance!  To Honor!  To Kin!

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Karl Donaldsson wrote:

  ) >From: Manny Olds <oldsma@...>
  )
  ) > I am familiar with the guidelines for designing web pages to be good
  ) > with Lynx and for handicap-assist devices. Is anyone up on
  ) > Palm-compatible design? I'd bet we are good for that, but we ought
  ) > to check.
  )
  ) OOH!  I'd love to have all this stuff on my Cassiopeia E-11 PDA,
  ) that would be super-spiffy!  Someone more techno-geek than I, could
  ) encode it?
  )
  ) I also have pages through AvantGo (http://www.avantgo.com), which
  ) are similar to channels -- would this be easier?  Does the enconding
  ) differ, or is it easier?
  )
  ) My little 32 MB compact flash card would be an ideal place to store
  ) all manner of references and lore!

Asatru-in-a-Drum: just add mead!

But I was thinking Palmized HTML: avoiding tags they can't handle, file
size limits, whatever. We can't fix the pages we link to, but we could at
least make *our* stuff that clean & lean.


Manny Olds (oldsma@...) of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA

"Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the
immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or
reptiles." -- Romans 1:22-23 (RSV)

kadlinw@... wrote:
>
> Rick A. Riedlinger wrote:
>

> > C. "Take note of which of the gods are "Æsir," which are "Vanir, "
> and which
> > are neither-- this will help you get a handle on their natures."
> >
> > Do we establish their natures? The similarities between those of
> each group
> > and the differences between the two groups? I would leave for the
> > intermediate.
>
> I disagree here as well-- while we don't "establish" the nature of
> the gods, but we do tell users to read the stories about them.  I
> think that pointing out the existence of the catagories from the get-
> go is going to save people time later on.

I agree with Kadlin here.  I would like people to start forming their
own impressions about how the Aesir and Vanir differ _before_ they read
the standard "fertility gods" classification of the Vanir, which I
consider inadequate and misleading.

Wassail,

Groa

Manny Olds wrote:

> But I was thinking Palmized HTML: avoiding tags they can't handle,
> file size limits, whatever.

The course in its current form consists of very basic (I think it is
version 3.0 compliant) and clean html.  The only problem is that as a
single page, I think the file size is too large (another argument for
splitting it into sections).

--Kadlin

Karl Donaldsson wrote:

> Sounds good.  Although, it should be labeled "For Luddite
> Antiquarians" rather than "Printer-Friendly."  ;-)  I mean,
> after all, if they're researching on-line, why would you want
> to print it off?  ;-)

So they don't go blind or get a migraine from reading long documents
off a dinky screen?  So they can read the stuff in bed, in the
bathtub, on the subway, or at the dinner table?  So they don't have
to go to the library and use a shared public computer every time they
want to study?  So they can doodle in the margins?

--Kadlin

(Who prefers to read some things in electronic format, and some
things as hard copy, depending on the type of material in question
and how she is using it.)

>From: Manny Olds <oldsma@...>

>Asatru-in-a-Drum: just add mead!
>
>But I was thinking Palmized HTML: avoiding tags they can't handle, file
>size limits, whatever. We can't fix the pages we link to, but we could at
>least make *our* stuff that clean & lean.

I'd still take it.  I have iBrowser for my CE 2.1 device, which is spiffy
for any P/PC-format HTML (aside from iSilo or other Palm, which probably
have their own).

Sounds delicious!  Who's got the brain?  (I've got the looks, let's make
lots of money ....  oh, sorry.  Had an 80's flashback there.)


'/\` Frith upon your house
//\\ Karl Donaldsson
\\// mekboy@...
`\/' http://i.am/mekboy
--------------------------------------------
Member of the Kindred of Ravenswood
Zionsville, Indiana  USA
http://www.iquest.net/~chaviland/Rindex.html
---------------------------------------------
To Vali!  To Vengeance!  To Honor!  To Kin!

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

If anyone has any other comments to make with respect to the
*content* of the course (as opposed to its form) please make them now.

Thank you,
Kadlin

> If anyone has any other comments to make with respect to the
>

Thanks, Kadlin.  I'm signing off on it - it looks great to me.

Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 07:56:51AM -0500, Karl Donaldsson wrote:
>
> >Perhaps we should have both-- individual pages for the sections, and
> >also a "printer friendly" version.
>
> Sounds good.  Although, it should be labeled "For Luddite Antiquarians"
> rather than "Printer-Friendly."  ;-)  I mean, after all, if they're
> researching on-line, why would you want to print it off?  ;-)

	 The answer, my friends, can be found in the "Havamal," with
sufficient translation...

	 Hard drives die and networks die;
	 Websites, I know, also die.

	 Okay, that's a good reason to keep a soft copy around, yes. But
a hard copy also lets you make notes in the margins, highlight important bits,
and carry it in your hip pocket as lecture notes to pitched debates.

-- Lorrie

On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 09:11:47AM -0500, Karl Donaldsson wrote:
>
> OOH!  I'd love to have all this stuff on my Cassiopeia E-11 PDA, that would
> be super-spiffy!  Someone more techno-geek than I, could encode it?

	 Palms have a document format (called, confusingly, doc) that
for a long boring reason has gained widespread acceptance and has many
readers. Indeed, someone, I believe it was Gus Gissing, beamed me three
chapters of _Our_Troth_ once in this format (I still have 'em).

> I also have pages through AvantGo (http://www.avantgo.com), which are
> similar to channels -- would this be easier?  Does the enconding differ, or
> is it easier?

	 There are doc converters for many platforms. Dunno how well the
format works on WinCE platforms -- WinCE makes me wince. However, many
if not most palms have a doc reader, and if they don't, it's just a beam
away.

	 The Note Pad app that comes with it is plain text only (doc allows
some formatting) and has a hard size limit of two kilobytes -- eck.

-- Lorrie

Rick A. Riedlinger wrote (a while ago):

> H. (As in McCarthyism): This is unnecessary.
[Referring to the intro for the article by Eric Wodening linked at
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/2575/frith.htm]
Just to explain.  After double-checking some things-- "McCarthyism"
was mentioned in the intro because it is given as a specific example
in the article.  Is it that grating?

Also on the same website, I note that Wednesbury Theod also has a
pronunciation guide & word hoard at
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/2575/abbrevia.htm

Worth adding?  If we have three of these, perhaps they do rate their
own section.

--Kadlin

My current plan is as follows: Over the next week or so I will make
the suggested changes to the course.  As I come across things that
were brought up that look like they need a bit more debate, I'll let
you know.

Meanwhile, we need volunteers for the following:
1) make sure all the links are still good
2) create some sort of metatag to help people find the course when
they are using search engines.
3) find out what is needed to make the course PalmPilot compatible.
This would best be done by someone who actually owns one.  Karl, can
you use AvantGo to load the version as currently posted on your
device & let us know how well it works, what needs to be done to make
it better?  Do the indents & the blockquote tags work on the
PalmPilot?

A question: has a place for the finished course to be posted been
arranged yet?  I remember something about it going on the Frigga's
Web site. . . .

--Kadlin

On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 kadlinw@... wrote:

  ) arranged yet?  I remember something about it going on the Frigga's
  ) Web site. . . .

http://www.reeves-hall.org/ was the last thought, AFAIK. Or we could put
it under the FWA's main domain. Why don't a few of you go have a look and
see which looks better?

Or I could register Asatru-U.org ... Oh, Lorrie?


Manny Olds (oldsma@...) of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA

"There is no limit to how complicated things can get, on account of one
thing always leading to another." -- E.B. White