Hello all-

To any of you there- what happened? Re Asatru-U? What did people think?

Rick

"Rick A. Riedlinger" wrote:
>
> Hello all-
>
> To any of you there- what happened? Re Asatru-U? What did people think?
>
> Rick
>

Short version: things went well.  I'll post a fuller account of the
discussion in a bit (after I wade through all the email in my box and
start actually answering it).

Wassail,

Groa

First, thanks to everyone from this list who showed up for the Trothmoot
discussion!  Several people not on the list were very interested in the
program - this has confirmed my sense that there's a real desire out
there for a course designed for people serious about Asatru who don't
necessarily want to be clergy (one person sensibly commented that they
needed the course to find out what the religion was about before they
could even start to think about whether they were interested in becoming
clergy).

During the discussion, I summarized some of the issues we've talked
about here and presented the basic "Intermediate" outline (i.e., the
list of topics), in the order I posted last week, without the
explanatory texts or details about the readings or acitivities.  I
wanted to give an overview of what we've done so far without taking up
the whole session with a presentation of a program that's far from
finished, anyway.

Here are some points that were raised during the discussion; if anyone
else who was there remembers additional points that I've forgotten,
please chime in.

I. Non-dogmatism and self-definition/responsibility.

It was recommended that we stress in the very first "What is Asatru"
section that there's no one right way to do a blot or interpret the
lore.  Since the course is a self-study course, it was suggested that we
could use that very fact to emphasize that each person has
responsibility for his/her own effort and interpretation.  It was also
suggested that we just keep saying this over and over at various points
in the course, e.g., "Here are a couple of blots, but they're just
examples of how a blot can be done", etc.

II. Asatru as an earth religion.

Diana Paxson urged us to stress in the "Wights" section that Asatru is
an earth religion and implies an environmental ethic; someone also
suggested that it would be helpful to suggest ways that people can
connect with the earth and the landwights if they own no land, live in a
city apartment, etc.

III. Resources for people taking the course.

It was suggested that, for each main topic, we list a couple of resource
people (email and snail addresses) who would be willing to answer
further questions, suggest further reading, etc. about that topic.  A
further suggestion was the creation of an email discussion group,
similar to Rick's Heathenbooks list, where people going through the
self-study course could talk to each other for moral support and to
exchange ideas.  More experienced people could take it in turns to hang
out on the list, give the new people their perspective, and ask the
ritual "what are your references?" question when someone goes way out in
left field.

IV. Dealing with the hard issues connected with the ideal of
"community".

Most there felt that it was important to let new people know about the
various "political" issues in Asatru so that they don't feel blindsided
when they run across their first neoNazi "Odinist" site, or get letters
from the incarcerated asking for free stuff, or any of the rest of it.
The more subtle gradations in opinion on the whole question of race,
ethnicity and ancestry also need to be dealt with, but without
overemphazing their importance (most of us spend our time practicing
Asatru, not obsessing about what other people are doing), or
representing positions inaccurately, nor softpedaling the depth and
significance of some of the rifts.

Someone at Trothmoot mentioned that the Frigga's Web Trustees have been
discussing ways to make some kind of balanced presentation on the whole
subject; if they are successful, this would be a great place to send
people.  Another suggestion was to recommend _specific_ questions that
new people could ask when they're trying to figure out where someone
else is coming from.  (My own core question, based on where I draw the
line on this particular issue, is, "Do you believe that a person must
have northern European ancestry to be Asatru?")

Less volatile, but still problematic, was the issue of Wicca and its
relationship to Asatru.  A common experience of people who come to
Asatru from Wicca, especially in the early stages of the transition, is
that they innocently make some comment based on their previous
background and find themselves barraged by criticism.  This tendency
towards knee-jerk Wicca-bashing by some heathens is deplorable, but it
seems only fair to warn new people that it often happens.  At the same
time, people also need to learn that the differences between Asatru and
Wicca are substantive (it would just be nice if we were able to keep
ourselves from condemning Wicca in the process).

V. Administrative issues.

The representatives from the Troth clergy program present were very
supportive and enthusiastic about the non-clergy program - they'd like
to recommend that would-be clergy do the self-study program first so
that the God-wranglers don't spend a lot of time teaching people the
basics and can focus on clergy-specific skills.  The Troth would be
happy to sponsor the program and would be willing to put it up on a
Website, distribute it as a hard-copy booklet, etc.

[Additional note on my thoughts following Trothmoot: Personally, I would
like to see this program under the aegis of some organization so that it
has stability and consistency beyond that imparted by any individual or
ephemeral collaboration of individuals.  From my perspective, the
advantage of Troth sponsorship would be that the Troth has a clear,
well-articulated, reasonable (IMO) position on heritage and
inclusiveness.  The disadvantage is that some people apparently consider
that position "extreme", "left-wing", etc., and/or consider the Troth a
radically eclectic, New-Agey sort of organization.  This doesn't accord
with my experience with the Troth at all, but if there is truly a
widespread sense that the Troth is "flakey", Frigga's Web might be a
more neutral home.  On the other hand, perhaps a program like this could
help the Troth, allow it to offer more to the general community, and
bring its image into better accord with reality.]

That's about all I can remember from the Trothmoot discussion.
Reactions?

Wassail,

Groa

Ann Groa Sheffield
Medoburg Kindred
www.medoburg.org

Thanks Groa, for the update. Glad that things went so good.

I. >It was also suggested that we just keep saying this over and over at
various points in the course, e.g., "Here are a couple of blots, but they're
just examples of how a blot can be done", etc.<

I agree with this. We will build a degree of uniformity through time, and by
efforts like Asatru-U, not top down dogma.

II. >it would be helpful to suggest ways that people can
connect with the earth and the landwights if they own no land, live in a
city apartment, etc.<

Few of our actions as humans, and few of earth's problems can still be seen
in a localized, land owning context. No matter where we live, a connection
with the earth may be strengthened by a shift in perception? As to
landwights, I know little, but when one does go out to nature- a park,
waterfront, the country, etc., it would be nice to have a format to use to
give honor to the ones who may be in that area. Landwights transcend
religious boundaries, don't they?

III. A support group would be good. Especially for those who have not
'networked' enough to be able to bother a bunch of people with questions :).

IV. How we present the views of the different factions is very important. If
it is done calmly and reasonably, it will reflect well on us, especially
when a student encounters a rabid supporter from anywhere. This will
hopefully encourage the student to continue this course, knowing it is
neither censored nor slanted to any great degree. For most of what will be
taught/learned, this issue is irrelevant.

VI. While I belong to the Troth and support it, I would be more comfortable
with Asatru-U: 1. on it's own 2. with multi-party support  3. associated
with Frigga's Web if they would have it . I have no strong objection being
under the Troth's umbrella. But I'm not doing the work either, so-

Well done to those who took this to Trothmoot.

Best,

Rick

Are we passing on an absolute beginner's course for now?

It is something that could be put together pretty easily. I would suggest
that it be composed almost totally from web resources with an introductory
suggested reading list.

Norse Myths and books along that line, those that need little outside info
for comprehension. The same for the websites. Real basic, real easy. Not
dumbing down, but very restricted in scope and all basic building blocks
toward developing the frame of reference necessary to continue.

A list could be compiled here, and winnowed down till it's acceptable. This
could then be used by whatever orgs and kindreds wanting it.

Thoughts?

Rick

Thank you for presenting and reporting. I will print that out and study it
before I respond.

I intend to put together the next rev. of the Intermediate Survey (based
on your reordering, other recent comments, and the Trothmoot comments) in
the next couple of days. Then you can all *gently* remind me of any
comments I overlooked.


Manny Olds <oldsma@...> of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA

"Actually, any magic save pure chaos can be explored via the scientific
method. I have to admit that designing experiments involving Creation
mythologies may be difficult, but... "-- Tony Quirke

On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Rick A. Riedlinger wrote:

  ) Are we passing on an absolute beginner's course for now?

I think so, but I sense that people are keeping it in mind as we work on
the Intermediate Survey. (Recall, the IS started out as notes toward a
Beginners course, but the consensus here is that it is beyond that level.)

What you need to do is come up with an explicit definition of "Beginner"
at the start of the course and at the end. Who is the audience and what do
you want them to walk away knowing or being able to do? (And things like
how that person is different from an interested outsider.) Then you
publish your idea here, we comment, you revise it, etc. (Feel free to
draft a couple of people into a committee to kick it around offline before
you present it to us all.)


Manny Olds <oldsma@...> of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA

"A person is justified by what he does, and not by faith alone."
   -- St. James

Will give it a shot. Anyone interested drop me a line.

Rick
heathensailor@...

>
> VI. While I belong to the Troth and support it, I would be more
comfortable
> with Asatru-U: 1. on it's own 2. with multi-party support  3. associated
> with Frigga's Web if they would have it .  >

When this project began this is one reason I supported it strongly and would
like to continue, that is its own entity available to any organization that
would utilize it. If it goes fully into the RoT I can only see it being
obscured by the organizational implications that would imply. Whether one
agrees or not, a man´s view on the membership or history of an organization
will colour his veiw of their materials and resources.
An informal council of members from various organizations would be a
miraculous and solid asset to our faith as a whole.

wassail
Ari

On Tue, 6 Jun 2000,  Hringari wrote:

  ) When this project began this is one reason I supported it strongly
  ) and would like to continue, that is its own entity available to any
  ) organization that would utilize it.

One of the main purposes of the Reeves Hall of Frigga's Web is to produce
material that is freely available in support of heathen organizations and
organizers.  Making course outlines available to heathen organizers is
certainly in our scope--that is why I stepped forward to start this
mailing list. Administering teacher-led courses or proficiency exams would
certainly be *out* of our scope, which is why a group like the Troth would
have to get involved with those.

I don't see any formal reason why this couldn't be done as a cooperative
effort: RH could maintain and publish outlines (etc.) and the Other Group
could run a program of courses and evaluations based on those outlines.
Practical considerations could easily scuttle this kind of alliance,
however.

I am mulling and welcome input.


Manny Olds <oldsma@...> of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA
Holder of the Clipboard

Reeves Hall of Frigga's Web <http://www.clark.net/~oldsma/reeves.htm>
Frigga's Web <http://www.friggasweb.org>

--- Manny Olds <oldsma@...> wrote:

> What you need to do is come up with an explicit
> definition of "Beginner"
> at the start of the course and at the end. Who is
> the audience and what do
> you want them to walk away knowing or being able to
> do? (And things like
> how that person is different from an interested
> outsider.) Then you
> publish your idea here, we comment, you revise it,
> etc. (Feel free to
> draft a couple of people into a committee to kick it
> around offline before
> you present it to us all.)


Heilsa all,

I am willing to be on this committee. So if everyone
is ok with it count me in.

Wassail!
Mike

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On 6 Jun 00, at 11:59, Ann Sheffield wrote:

> [Additional note on my thoughts following Trothmoot: Personally, I would
> like to see this program under the aegis of some organization so that it
> has stability and consistency beyond that imparted by any individual or
> ephemeral collaboration of individuals.  From my perspective, the
> advantage of Troth sponsorship would be that the Troth has a clear,
> well-articulated, reasonable (IMO) position on heritage and
> inclusiveness.  The disadvantage is that some people apparently consider
> that position "extreme", "left-wing", etc., and/or consider the Troth a
> radically eclectic, New-Agey sort of organization.  This doesn't accord
> with my experience with the Troth at all, but if there is truly a
> widespread sense that the Troth is "flakey", Frigga's Web might be a
> more neutral home.  On the other hand, perhaps a program like this could
> help the Troth, allow it to offer more to the general community, and
> bring its image into better accord with reality.]

Well, while I agree with you that some may consider the Troth
"flakey,"  I have met similar numbers of folks that consider Frigga's
Web much the same.  So that placing it with either organization
could result in the same image being placed on the program by
default.  Too, it may be better looked after in the Troth.  Being a
member of both organizations, I really have no preference.  The
Troth currently has many active members however, while Frigga's
Web has only three to four that really  do the work.  This means
the program could go unnoticed.  Finally, I agree whole heartedly
with you that the program could help the Troth.

Anyhow, the program went very well.  Groa did a great job of
presenting it and we had many good comments from many folks.
It was nice to see everyone there!

BTW HOW TO DO RESEARCH is still available.  I hate having to
charge for it, but this move has zapped my resources. I am still
charging only $5 a copy. If you want one, mail me at Swain
Wodening, 7007 Second Floor, S. Broadway, St. Louis, MO

Frith!
Swain
-------------------------------------------------------------
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http://www.mp3.com/Dosenhof

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My addy should be  Berry Canote, 7007 S. Broadway 2nd Floor
St. Louis, MO 63111  Or money orders made out in that name too.

Swain

On 6 Jun 00, at 17:37, Swain Wodening wrote:

> On 6 Jun 00, at 11:59, Ann Sheffield wrote:
>
> > [Additional note on my thoughts following Trothmoot: Personally, I would
> > like to see this program under the aegis of some organization so that it
> > has stability and consistency beyond that imparted by any individual or
> > ephemeral collaboration of individuals.  From my perspective, the
> > advantage of Troth sponsorship would be that the Troth has a clear,
> > well-articulated, reasonable (IMO) position on heritage and
> > inclusiveness.  The disadvantage is that some people apparently consider
> > that position "extreme", "left-wing", etc., and/or consider the Troth a
> > radically eclectic, New-Agey sort of organization.  This doesn't accord
> > with my experience with the Troth at all, but if there is truly a
> > widespread sense that the Troth is "flakey", Frigga's Web might be a
> > more neutral home.  On the other hand, perhaps a program like this could
> > help the Troth, allow it to offer more to the general community, and
> > bring its image into better accord with reality.]
>
> Well, while I agree with you that some may consider the Troth
> "flakey,"  I have met similar numbers of folks that consider Frigga's
> Web much the same.  So that placing it with either organization
> could result in the same image being placed on the program by
> default.  Too, it may be better looked after in the Troth.  Being a
> member of both organizations, I really have no preference.  The
> Troth currently has many active members however, while Frigga's
> Web has only three to four that really  do the work.  This means
> the program could go unnoticed.  Finally, I agree whole heartedly
> with you that the program could help the Troth.
>
> Anyhow, the program went very well.  Groa did a great job of
> presenting it and we had many good comments from many folks.
> It was nice to see everyone there!
>
> BTW HOW TO DO RESEARCH is still available.  I hate having to
> charge for it, but this move has zapped my resources. I am still
> charging only $5 a copy. If you want one, mail me at Swain
> Wodening, 7007 Second Floor, S. Broadway, St. Louis, MO
>
> Frith!
> Swain
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Dosenhof Wodenson
> http://www.mp3.com/Dosenhof
>
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LeeAnn Rabe and Mike Normand have agreed to join the Asa-U moderation
team. ::polite applause:: So now, a "Play nice, please" from one of them
is authoritative.


Manny Olds <oldsma@...> of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA

What does the flame think of the moth?

In the past few days, we have had several new members sign up for the
list. Welcome to you all and please feel free to lurk quietly for as long
as you like.

I would encourage you to browse through the archives to see where we are
in the discussion, however.


Manny Olds <oldsma@...> of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA

Sometimes you give a guy a fish, sometimes you teach him to fish,
sometimes you establish a fisherman training school, and sometimes you
have to let him find his own solution.

Hringari wrote:

>
> When this project began this is one reason I supported it strongly and would
> like to continue, that is its own entity available to any organization that
> would utilize it.

My problem with the idea of the program's being its "own entity" is that
I think it is very difficult for such an entity to have long-term
stability.  An informal, voluntary coalition such as we have now is
great for the preliminary work, but the program is much more likely to
succeed if the responsibility for maintaining it lies with an
organization rather than any specific individual(s).  The program will
require maintainance of various kinds - updating of recommended readings
as new materials become available and others become obscure; updating of
names/contact addresses of resource people as normal turnover occurs,
etc.

I think housing this with the Reeve's Hall, which makes materials
available to all, may be the best compromise we're likely to reach.  The
major disadvantage to FW vs. the Troth is the one Swain mentioned - the
Troth has more resources.  The major advantage to FW, at least in my
experience, is that FW is seen as less "political" (though Swain's
comments indicate that that may not be the case - how do other people
see this?).

I'm not sure how best to settle this question, as I doubt we're likely
to reach true consensus.  I do think we need to settle it somehow fairly
soon so that nobody ends up feeling used.  To be bluntly specific, I am
not willing to see materials I've authored end up on the AA or AFA
Websites and will withdraw from the project if that's a likely outcome.
I imagine that others here have equally strong feelings about other
outcomes.  So, we really do need to decide where we're headed with this.

Wassail,

Groa

Ann Groa Sheffield
Medoburg Kindred
www.medoburg.org

On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Swain Wodening wrote:

  ) while Frigga's Web has only three to four that really do the work.

I'm sorry, but when I hear this in the context of a discussion group of 40
people "doing the work" for a Reeves Hall project, I can only snort. I
think maybe our model of working is different than you are used to. FWA
does not try to get everyone to join the association. We try to get people
around the country, associated with different local groups, to join. It is
intended to be a small service organization that sparks or supports local
activity, not a large federation with a lot of internal activity.

Now, more publicity would be better. But webcrawlers seem to bring plenty
of searchers to our door--we get a *lot* of hits.

(This is not supposed to be an argument that the RH is a better place for
the course material than the Troth. I just wanted to comment on what I
see as a misunderstanding of what the Reeves Hall is about. In fact, I
think that this might be best pursued as an alliance of groups who have
complementary goals and resources.)

Manny Olds <oldsma@...> of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA

Land of Confusion <http://www.clark.net/~oldsma>
Frigga's Web <http://www.friggasweb.org>
Reeves Hall of Frigga's Web <http://www.clark.net/~oldsma/reeves.htm>
Vingolf Fellowship <http://www.vingolf.org/>

>In fact, I think that this might be best pursued as an alliance of >
>groups who have complementary goals and resources.)

I like this idea. Like who? Me low on totem pole and know not who be friend
or foe.

My impression of FW has always been one of 'beyond the bickering'.

Rick

>
> I'm not sure how best to settle this question, as I doubt we're likely
> to reach true consensus.  I do think we need to settle it somehow fairly
> soon so that nobody ends up feeling used.  To be bluntly specific, I am
> not willing to see materials I've authored end up on the AA or AFA
> Websites and will withdraw from the project if that's a likely outcome.
> I imagine that others here have equally strong feelings about other
> outcomes.  So, we really do need to decide where we're headed with this.
>

I know the complications truly, with all the pages and sites I run, but the
offer is still open to develop a site of its own and connect it back to
whereever you feel most comfortable.  AA/AFA?  jikes.   not on a bet.

wassail
Ari

On 7 Jun 00, at 14:40, Ann Sheffield wrote:

> Hringari wrote:
>
> >
> > When this project began this is one reason I supported it strongly
> > and would like to continue, that is its own entity available to any
> > organization that would utilize it.
>
> My problem with the idea of the program's being its "own entity" is
> that I think it is very difficult for such an entity to have long-term
> stability.  An informal, voluntary coalition such as we have now is
> great for the preliminary work, but the program is much more likely to
> succeed if the responsibility for maintaining it lies with an
> organization rather than any specific individual(s).  The program will
> require maintainance of various kinds - updating of recommended
> readings as new materials become available and others become obscure;
> updating of names/contact addresses of resource people as normal
> turnover occurs, etc.

I have to agree with Groa here, an independent entity might not be
able  to maintain the program as it is needed to.  Materials will
need to be updated, and we might want to implement parts of the
program prior to it being completed (i.e. a newbie course prior to
that of the intermediate or advanced levels).


>
> I think housing this with the Reeve's Hall, which makes materials
> available to all, may be the best compromise we're likely to reach.
> The major disadvantage to FW vs. the Troth is the one Swain mentioned
> - the Troth has more resources.  The major advantage to FW, at least
> in my experience, is that FW is seen as less "political" (though
> Swain's comments indicate that that may not be the case - how do other
> people see this?).

Well, I am not certain how accurate my statements on the FW are.
I have heard grumblings from some factions, but then again,in
another couple of months they may be complaining about
something else.  Therefore the Reeves Hall may be idea.   The only
problem I can see is a lack of manpower on FW's part.  Only
Alissa, Manny, and Rod seem to take an active part (with Joell and
Jo helping out on Lina). Rod's also Regional Coordinator of the
Great Plains Ring, Alissa and Eric and the boys are relocating.
That leaves Manny, unless we can convince Jo or Joell to help.  If
Manny is willing to bear the weight of running the program, I
suppose we could place it with FW. I know as an FW member I
would help.  I do believe Groa is a member as well.  The Troth
however now has the manpower to run the program, and the
resources to print it. They were pretty enthustiastic about it.

The solution may be to make the program available to both
organizations, and then let them run it independently of each other
from there.  The AE would be willing to do this as well, except for
that we have our own programs already in place. Nonetheless, we
would still promote the program with the other two orgs.


>
> I'm not sure how best to settle this question, as I doubt we're likely
> to reach true consensus.  I do think we need to settle it somehow
> fairly soon so that nobody ends up feeling used.  To be bluntly
> specific, I am not willing to see materials I've authored end up on
> the AA or AFA Websites and will withdraw from the project if that's a
> likely outcome. I imagine that others here have equally strong
> feelings about other outcomes.  So, we really do need to decide where
> we're headed with this.


While I am comfortable with placing materials with the AA, I am not
with the AFA or OR.  And something like this I would not want to
place on any of the threes' websites (what I place with the AA is
material promoting universialist tribalism).   Placement is crucial as
Ann says here if we want all of our best folks working on it.  I think
placing it with both the FW and Troth might be the best idea.

Frith!
Swain
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>we might want to implement parts of the
program prior to it being completed (i.e. a newbie course prior to
that of the intermediate or advanced levels). <

Hey Swain- you said the word 'newbie'. Guess what? Mike and I have started
to work on a beginner's course. Could use some help, if anyone is interested
in having some input, hint, hint, hint.

If anyone wants to help, or just look over the basic outline which we have,
let us know.

Rick

On 7 Jun 00, at 16:26, Manny Olds wrote:

> On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Swain Wodening wrote:
>
>  ) while Frigga's Web has only three to four that really do the work.
>
> I'm sorry, but when I hear this in the context of a discussion group
> of 40 people "doing the work" for a Reeves Hall project, I can only
> snort. I think maybe our model of working is different than you are
> used to. FWA does not try to get everyone to join the association. We
> try to get people around the country, associated with different local
> groups, to join. It is intended to be a small service organization
> that sparks or supports local activity, not a large federation with a
> lot of internal activity.
>
> Now, more publicity would be better. But webcrawlers seem to bring
> plenty of searchers to our door--we get a *lot* of hits.
>
> (This is not supposed to be an argument that the RH is a better place
> for the course material than the Troth. I just wanted to comment on
> what I see as a misunderstanding of what the Reeves Hall is about. In
> fact, I think that this might be best pursued as an alliance of groups
> who have complementary goals and resources.)
>
> Manny Olds <oldsma@...> of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA


Regardless, my comments still stand. Realisticly who will do the
work?  The FW members, regardless of how or why they joined
they are the ones that will.  Those that are VERY active locally or
nationally are few.  No misunderstanding, just realistic thinking.
The AE is the same size works in similar ways, and I know we are
often short handed too. I am an FW member too and know well its
workings.

Frith!
Swain


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Just a thought, and maybe comes under blots, but when starting I was very
interested in how the year was kept, and festivals to be celebrated.
Rick

> My problem with the idea of the program's being its "own entity" is
> that I think it is very difficult for such an entity to have long-term
> stability.

Agreed.  I'm very high on The Troth right now, but have been around
long enough to see where some would resent them administering
this.  Not even I am petty enough to keep this from the racists,
although I wouldn't want my name on AA or AFA webpages, to
name a few.  It would be very good for The Troth, but that shouldn't
be a deciding factor.

I've been leery of FW because they don't take a stand against the
racists (sorry, Manny).  Likely, there is no such thing as a
completely neutral space.

My vote would be for Troth doing the maintenance, etc., but I freely
admit it isn't anywhere near a perfect solution.

Be well,
Lissa


Rational, adj.
Deviod of all delusions save those of observation,
experience and reflection.
Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Heilsan,

Not to introduce what I might consider to be an obvious question, but maybe
it'd be a good thing to actually ask a couple of newbies what they'd like to
see.

After all, we're a bunch of experts trying to decide what'd be "best" for
newcomers. Couldn't we hear from the newcomers, and find out what they'd
consider valuable? I know I have a few folks here in Gers Ey that might have
some valuable observations.

In frith,

ÚlfgrímR goði, Gers Ey Goðorð

My Homepage: http://www.gersey.org/members/ulfgrim
Main Page: http://www.gersey.org

"Heathen isn't a label or a religion. It's what I am."



----- Original Message -----
From: Rick A. Riedlinger <heathensailor@...>
To: <Asatru-U@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Asatru-U] beginner's course


> >we might want to implement parts of the
> program prior to it being completed (i.e. a newbie course prior to
> that of the intermediate or advanced levels). <
>
> Hey Swain- you said the word 'newbie'. Guess what? Mike and I have started
> to work on a beginner's course. Could use some help, if anyone is
interested
> in having some input, hint, hint, hint.
>
> If anyone wants to help, or just look over the basic outline which we
have,
> let us know.
>
> Rick

Heilsa,

Rick A. Riedlinger <heathensailor@...> wrote:

> Just a thought, and maybe comes under blots, but when starting I was very
> interested in how the year was kept, and festivals to be celebrated.

I have an article on this subject; check out
http://www.gersey.org/godord/blot_sumbel.html

Hope that helps; questions and comments are always welcome!

ÚlfgrímR goði, Gers Ey Goðorð

My Homepage: http://www.gersey.org/members/ulfgrim
Main Page: http://www.gersey.org

"Heathen isn't a label or a religion. It's what I am."

On 7 Jun 00, at 21:41, Rick A. Riedlinger wrote:

> >we might want to implement parts of the
> program prior to it being completed (i.e. a newbie course prior to
> that of the intermediate or advanced levels). <
>
> Hey Swain- you said the word 'newbie'. Guess what? Mike and I have
> started to work on a beginner's course. Could use some help, if anyone
> is interested in having some input, hint, hint, hint.
>
> If anyone wants to help, or just look over the basic outline which we
> have, let us know.
>
> Rick

Wes hal Rick!

Sure I will help.  Those that are just starting out often need such
programs the most.

Frith!
Swain
-------------------------------------------------------------
Dosenhof Wodenson
http://www.mp3.com/Dosenhof

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Wassail folkies!

--- In Asatru-U@egroups.com, "Lissa" <qibhom@p...> wrote:
>
> I've been leery of FW because they don't take a stand against the
> racists (sorry, Manny).

Is the following not self explanatory?

"In keeping with the value Frigga places on common courtesy and
civility, as well as her support of frith, we do not accept
behavior or speech that is hateful, malicious, vicious, demeaning, or
violent toward anyone, for whatever reasons, be they
racial, sexual, ideological, sectarian, or political--from the left,
right, center, or anywhere else--including witch-hunting
motivated by political correctness..."

http://members.tripod.com/~InFrith/policy.htm

I don't know of any FWA members expounding racist/hate stuff ever.
If you are refering to the Folkish, well their leaders can't stand us
at FWA and we haven't been in any way 'tainted' by the few Folkish
members at FWA. They are about as quiet as the rest of the
membership...

Mark Hosselton aethling@... 'mannes Barhelmes'
****************************************************
*Frigga's Web Association*
http://www.friggasweb.org
*The Wyrd Page* Germanic/Nordic Heathen Religion
http://home.att.net/~hosselton/wyrd/seaxnet.htm
****************************************************
'Quote the Raven,"Yumm, yumm, yumm."'
                            Patti Smith

Heilsa,

----- Original Message -----
From: Hringari <sikling@...>
To: <Asatru-U@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Asatru-U]

> > I'm not sure how best to settle this question, as I doubt we're likely
> > to reach true consensus.  I do think we need to settle it somehow fairly
> > soon so that nobody ends up feeling used.  To be bluntly specific, I am
> > not willing to see materials I've authored end up on the AA or AFA
> > Websites and will withdraw from the project if that's a likely outcome.
> > I imagine that others here have equally strong feelings about other
> > outcomes.  So, we really do need to decide where we're headed with this.
> >
>
> I know the complications truly, with all the pages and sites I run, but
the
> offer is still open to develop a site of its own and connect it back to
> whereever you feel most comfortable.  AA/AFA?  jikes.   not on a bet.
>
> wassail
> Ari

I must confess this worries me. I did see a very.. shall we say, liberal...
slant on things on this group, but I figured the concept of "we all worship
the same Gods" had infiltrated to the point where a fair an unbiased
treatment of controversial issues could be made. When I see a statement to
the effect of, "if group X is included, I want nothing to do with it", I am
offended.

NEWS FLASH: Folkish Asatuar are the majority, and they have to be
acknowledged as such.

You want to create a curriculum for "Asatru"? You'd better damn well have
the Folkish camp represented, or it's just a pipe dream of "What I want
Asatru to be," and thus useless.

I must add I say this as someone who is neither Folkish, Universalist, or
(when it comes down to it) Asatru. You're worried about the Troth sponsoring
this course? Why not have the AFA sponsor it too? Are you really interested
in representing Asatru as a whole? Get every faction involved.

Otherwise it's an exercise in "let's get the liberals a forum" and nothing
else. And if that's the case, just shut it down now.

In frith,

ÚlfgrímR goði, Gers Ey Goðorð

My Homepage: http://www.gersey.org/members/ulfgrim
Main Page: http://www.gersey.org

"Heathen isn't a label or a religion. It's what I am."

On 7 Jun 00, at 23:11, Úlfgrím goði wrote:

> Heilsa,
>
> Rick A. Riedlinger <heathensailor@...> wrote:
>
> > Just a thought, and maybe comes under blots, but when starting I was
> > very interested in how the year was kept, and festivals to be
> > celebrated.
>
> I have an article on this subject; check out
> http://www.gersey.org/godord/blot_sumbel.html
>
> Hope that helps; questions and comments are always welcome!
>
> ÚlfgrímR goði, Gers Ey Goðorð
>


The Theods still have a very good booklet on it too.  And I think I
may have an article on my website as well (not sure if I ever
uploaded it though and I am composing this offline).  You can
check it at http://www.geocities.com/s_wodening

Frith!
Swain
-------------------------------------------------------------
Dosenhof Wodenson
http://www.mp3.com/Dosenhof

__________________________________________________
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