> On Fri, 24 May 2002, svalich wrote:
>
> > I suppose the "yes" was unclear; I meant to say that there should be
> > some spiritual level in the intermediate course, but I don't really
> > agree with the specific idea of being a friend to a given diety.
>
> Explain this more, please. Don't believe in it? Don't approve of it? Don't
> think it is desirable? Don't think we should cover it in the course?

Sorry, Manny, it seems the more I speak, the less I say.  ;-)

I don't think it is essential to an understanding of one's own spirituality
to connect with any deity in particular.  Yes, it's possible, and even
likely, but I don't believe it should be "required" for a person to have
such contact to go through the intermediate course.

However, we should certainly encourage some spiritual contact with
pseudo-intangible beings, whether wights, gods, etc. through whatever means
is necessary or likely.  It should not be considered that one is somehow
"not getting it" if they do not, but they should certainly be able to
realize that there are, indeed, powers at work beyond the realm of our five
senses.

I approve most highly that people seek such contact on their own, and it
would certainly be instrumental in the acquisition of spiritual "knowledge"
for the intermediate course, but I speak as one who believes that our gods
are real, physical, tangible beings.  Without getting too much into my own
views, we know about things like atoms, where we never knew about them
before.  We know about quarks where we did not know of them before.  I
believe it is possible to develop senses to achieve such perceptions.
Certainly at some point in any mind-altering experience (specifically, I
recommend hallucinogens), one asks the question -- am I chemically tricking
my brain into seeing things which are not there; or am I finally seeing
things as they are for the first time?  A similar question will be asked by
any adherent to a religion, where they are interested in investing time and
effort for some sort of reward (whether spiritual or otherwise) from said
effort.

At some point, a follower of Asatru will ask how to get in touch with the
gods or weights, and it should be somewhat explainable, and this should be
present in the intermediate course, as I feel it necessary that an
individual have such surreal experience to truly recognize what lies before
them.


'/\` Frith upon your house
//\\ Karl Donaldsson
\\// mekboy@...
`\/' http://www.geocities.com/svalich
--------------------------------------------
Member of the Kindred of Ravenswood
Zionsville, Indiana  USA
http://www.iquest.net/~chaviland/Rindex.html
---------------------------------------------
To Vali!  To Vengeance!  To Honor!  To Kin!
===============================================
------>  Would you know more, or what?  <------
Get Asatru education at http://www.asatru-u.org
===============================================

On Sun, Jun 02, 2002 at 08:16:52PM -0500, Karl Donaldsson wrote:
>
> Certainly at some point in any mind-altering experience (specifically, I
> recommend hallucinogens), one asks the question -- am I chemically tricking
> my brain into seeing things which are not there; or am I finally seeing
> things as they are for the first time?  A similar question will be asked by
> any adherent to a religion, where they are interested in investing time and
> effort for some sort of reward (whether spiritual or otherwise) from said
> effort.

	 And the corollary questions: Is there a useful difference, and if
it works, does it matter?

-- Lorrie

From: "Lorrie Wood" <lwood@...>


> On Sun, Jun 02, 2002 at 08:16:52PM -0500, Karl Donaldsson wrote:
> >
> > Certainly at some point in any mind-altering experience (specifically, I
> > recommend hallucinogens), one asks the question -- am I chemically
tricking
> > my brain into seeing things which are not there; or am I finally seeing
> > things as they are for the first time?  A similar question will be asked
by
> > any adherent to a religion, where they are interested in investing time
and
> > effort for some sort of reward (whether spiritual or otherwise) from
said
> > effort.
>
> And the corollary questions: Is there a useful difference, and if
> it works, does it matter?

Well, some realists seem to believe there is a difference between fooling
oneself and actually perceiving something which others cannot.  There is
only a difference, I think, if one chooses to recognize one, and that
difference may be important to a given individual.  We may run into this
with the Intermediate Course, by some folks feeling they're not making such
a spiritual connection, because they can't believe it can be made.  Then the
question of "is it possible" becomes more consuming than " can I do it."
For example, a man of my proportions is ill-suited to climb a free-hanging
rope.  I still say it's not impossible, because as I become the Happy
Not-Nearly-So-Fat-As-I-Was-Before Guy, the task becomes more approachable.
Some fellows of my dimensions might consider the task impossible, without
even considering that, with the right training, the task is not only
possible, but likely to achieve.  I don't how to make people realize the
step from possibility to likelihood, but I feel that the Intermediate course
should have, for each individual, that specific goal rolling around in the
back of one's mind.

It only matters how it works, again, to the individual.  If one can only
contact the deities or wights or what-have-you via some hallucinogenic
delirium, they might then, (logically!) conclude that it's the stuff making
the connection, not them, without ever realizing that the substance in
question is actually just attenuating something they choose to perceive in
the first place.  I think meditations, chants, trances, hypnosis, and so
forth seem to be more useful in this regard, since one might feel that they
are more in control of the situation than might otherwise be experienced via
chemical stimuli.   Such meditations remove the possibility that some
external force is at work on their senses, when, in fact, the same chemical
changes in the body and brain are, in many cases, identical.  I choose such
an example as myself since I have never had any success using meditations or
hypnosis (perhaps a lack of training, and skill are my culprit), and I had
some contact with certain substances before getting into heathenry.  Now I
find my spiritual contacts are established, and that I have no need for any
substance to achieve what might be considered supernatural awareness to
certain things.  Kind of like taking the training wheels off the bike.  I
believe others find equal success from meditation, chanting, trances, and
hypnosis (or even other mental conditioning) without the need to resort to
using chemical substances.  The good news seems to be that there is some
level of documentation in the lore which seems to support both takes on
opening doors of perception.

So, in summary, it only matters if the individual makes it matter.  We throw
up more walls and obstacles for ourselves than any one, or every one, could
possibly put before us.


<soapbox>
As a society, we are generally trained to conform, as we are easier to
control.  When one realizes that he has no master other than himself, and he
has no obstacles other than the one he places for himself, then the
connections may be made that are out of the realm of consideration.  It took
some time to convince people that we revolved about the sun, and that the
Earth was not flat, mostly by people who had to open themselves up to the
idea that what they thought they knew to be true could, in fact, be
completely bollocks.  I believe this is the hurdle which we of non-heathen
upbringing face, a hurdle which, hopefully, is decimated by successful
completion of the Beginner's course.
</soapbox>

Sorry for the long post.


'/\` Frith upon your house
//\\ Karl Donaldsson
\\// mekboy@...
`\/' http://www.geocities.com/svalich
--------------------------------------------
Member of the Kindred of Ravenswood
Zionsville, Indiana  USA
http://www.iquest.net/~chaviland/Rindex.html
---------------------------------------------
To Vali!  To Vengeance!  To Honor!  To Kin!
===============================================
------>  Would you know more, or what?  <------
Get Asatru education at http://www.asatru-u.org
===============================================

Karl Donaldsson wrote:

Much snipped...but aside as a youngster I too had said problem climbing rope
until I took

off my shoes and wrapped toes around rope and went up hand over foot.  :)

This next part is so good it ought to be the intro for the intermediate
course.


>
> <soapbox>
> As a society, we are generally trained to conform, as we are easier to
> control.  When one realizes that he has no master other than himself, and he
> has no obstacles other than the one he places for himself, then the
> connections may be made that are out of the realm of consideration.  It took
> some time to convince people that we revolved about the sun, and that the
> Earth was not flat, mostly by people who had to open themselves up to the
> idea that what they thought they knew to be true could, in fact, be
> completely bollocks.  I believe this is the hurdle which we of non-heathen
> upbringing face, a hurdle which, hopefully, is decimated by successful
> completion of the Beginner's course.
> </soapbox>
>
> Sorry for the long post.
>
>


Wassail!

Night Winds

In a message dated 6/3/02 11:53:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mekboy@... writes:


> For example, a man of my proportions is ill-suited to climb a free-hanging
> rope.  I still say it's not impossible, because as I become the Happy
> Not-Nearly-So-Fat-As-I-Was-Before Guy, the task becomes more approachable.
> Some fellows of my dimensions might consider the task impossible, without
> even considering that, with the right training, the task is not only
> possible, but likely to achieve.  I don't how to make people realize the
> step from possibility to likelihood, but I feel that the Intermediate
> course
> should have, for each individual, that specific goal rolling around in the
> back of one's mind.
>

In this instance and for you as a learner, who would be more effective in
helping you achieve that:  someone who has always been trim, in-shape, and
who can climb the rope with one hand while smoking a cigarette with the
other, or someone who him/herself once worked through the weight obstacle?
Would it make a difference?

Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Asatru-U@y..., tsdoughty@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 6/3/02 11:53:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> mekboy@h... writes:
>
>
> > For example, a man of my proportions is ill-suited to climb a
free-hanging
> > rope.  I still say it's not impossible, because as I become the
Happy
> > Not-Nearly-So-Fat-As-I-Was-Before Guy, the task becomes more
approachable.
> > Some fellows of my dimensions might consider the task impossible,
without
> > even considering that, with the right training, the task is not
only
> > possible, but likely to achieve.  I don't how to make people
realize the
> > step from possibility to likelihood, but I feel that the
Intermediate
> > course
> > should have, for each individual, that specific goal rolling
around in the
> > back of one's mind.
> >
>
> In this instance and for you as a learner, who would be more
effective in
> helping you achieve that:  someone who has always been trim, in-
shape, and
> who can climb the rope with one hand while smoking a cigarette with
the
> other, or someone who him/herself once worked through the weight
obstacle?
> Would it make a difference?

Now, that's a very interesting question.

My wife has recently joined Weight Watchers (and, by practice, I have
as well).  We call it the "Food Police".  Interestingly enough,
there's not 12-step program to cure food addicts, which is
interesting to note, since these work somewhat poorly, statistically,
for addicts of other substances.  Regardless of this, my wife cringed
to hear the leader of th meetings there lost a whole 17 lbs. and has,
to everyone's shock and amazement, kept it off for three whole
years.

Those of us who need to lose like an entire human's worth look at
twinkies like that and know that losing 17 lbs when you're 325 can be
achieved in about three weeks of not having breakfast.  The key is
not putting it back on.  I think, for the first time, that this
program (even led by people who've never worn anything over a size 12
or even had to shop mail-order for clothes) is something that can be
stuck to, easily, and incorporated as a life-change.

Back to the substance-use analogy, one can experience the
supernatural with some conditions and substances.  However, to achive
some level of supernatural awareness, one must be able to do it
without such aids.  By the same token, I must be able to re-form my
views on food and what I allow my arms to convey to the mouth before
I can consider it a life change rather than a diet.

This takes some measure of mental foritude, force of will, and the
like to achieve, something a "diet" neither mandates nor requires,
which is why I imagine the long-term success rate of dieting is
equivalent to the long-term success rate of a 12-step program.  We
dont' want to present Asatru as some sort of 12-step program, but
rather, a life-change.  This is what makes is valuable and useful,
when you incorporate it into your life.

As an aside, and since you're asking (Tim gets all the too personal
info from me, darling), when I started looking into Asatru, my
somewhat Christian wife felt that I would "get over" Asatru, like it
was just a "phase."  Well, I didn't look at it like it was something
new to try, but rather, something that was what I was looking for my
entire life.  You have to want to change, and it has to be something
you're changing to that you have convinced yourself your life will be
better when you do make that change.  It was, I did, and it has.

OK, having said that, back to your question:
It most certainly makes a difference to any person doing any thing
new to have the views and thoughts of someone who has made that
change themselves.  There will always be people new to Asatru, but we
(collectively) will probably start having some kids now who have
never known anything but Asatru.  I'd rather have someone climb up
that rope, look back at me, and say, "I couldn't do that 2 years
ago."  I think the meat of the Intermediate course could come,
actually, from various personal accounts, rather than from
references, citations, and quotes.  But, I realize this view is
colored by my own personal expereinces, and I wouldn't want to impose
such as a requirement for the course, unless there is a concesnus
that there is no better way.

Each of us has had some life-altering expereicne, where we are now
not what once we were.  This could be massive weight loss which
turned into running marathons, coming out, or getting a higher
education.  I don't think you'd've valued comments from a het like me
for What Now, and it only makes sense for me to look at other folks
who've lost weight to see how they've done it.  You see the kids in
the StriDex ads, like they ever had a zit.  You see the ladies int eh
cosmetics commecials, like they've ever had wrinkles.  It just makse
sense for folks like us who've been in the place where they've been
to be giving our views on what to do next, since we came from non-
heathen upbringing.

Our services in this regard should be available, whether int he form
of personal accounts, e-mail, and the like.  I'd like to think you're
one person who I've been able to offer at least one useful word of
advice, making all the other words of mine you've waded through worth
the effort.  ;-)

I really beleive it makes a difference to me, and I think the
assumption that it makes a difference to others that I was then where
they are now is a valid assumption of some number of specifica
cases.  Perhaps there are those out there who need not such role
models or the like, and hooray for them, but I ain't one of them.

Overcoming adversity has little to do with solving a problem or
choosing a correct path -- it has everything to do with realizing
adversity is something that you, alone, have created.  Pointing the
finger at others or other things for one's own problems will not
eliminate the problem, nor provide solutions.  Recognizing a problem
in the first place (the only step I agree with of a 12-step program)
is the key to the door.  Overcoming the problem that you realize
you've created is the opening of the door.  All, then, that remains,
is walking through it.

Perhaps this analogy would be the same for Beginner, Intermediate,
and Advanced courses?  The Key, the Door, and the Path Beyond?


'/\` Frith upon your house
//\\ Karl Donaldsson
\\// mekboy@...
`\/' http://www.geocities.com/svalich
--------------------------------------------
Member of the Kindred of Ravenswood
Zionsville, Indiana  USA
http://www.iquest.net/~chaviland/Rindex.html
---------------------------------------------
To Vali!  To Vengeance!  To Honor!  To Kin!
===============================================
------>  Would you know more, or what?  <------
Get Asatru education at http://www.asatru-u.org
===============================================

So, it sounds as if we need to start collecting a broad assortment of case
studies, covering different types of heathens w/ different types of direct
experiences (or not) w/ gods. And then have the course editor [*] choose
the most useful ones.

[*] Currently me by default; the position is highly available.

Manny Olds (oldsma@...) of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA

If you seek my church, look around you.

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 10:35:56AM -0400, Manny Olds wrote:
>
> So, it sounds as if we need to start collecting a broad assortment of case
> studies, covering different types of heathens w/ different types of direct
> experiences (or not) w/ gods. And then have the course editor [*] choose
> the most useful ones.

So does that mean I need to write something and send it to you?

--
Arlie

(Arlie Stephens                                       arlie@...)

On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Arlie Stephens wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 10:35:56AM -0400, Manny Olds wrote:
> >
> > So, it sounds as if we need to start collecting a broad assortment of case
> > studies, covering different types of heathens w/ different types of direct
> > experiences (or not) w/ gods. And then have the course editor [*] choose
> > the most useful ones.
>
> So does that mean I need to write something and send it to you?

I was trying to work around that gently. Homework for all of us.

MAO

On Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:35:56 -0400 (EDT)
  Manny Olds <oldsma@...> wrote:
> So, it sounds as if we need to start collecting a broad
>  assortment of case
> studies, covering different types of heathens w/
>  different types of direct
> experiences (or not) w/ gods. And then have the course
>  editor [*] choose
> the most useful ones.

You want them onlist, or just to you?

Be well,
Lissa

On Wed, 5 Jun 2002 qibhom@... wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:35:56 -0400 (EDT)
>  Manny Olds <oldsma@...> wrote:
> > So, it sounds as if we need to start collecting a broad
> >  assortment of case
> > studies, covering different types of heathens w/
> >  different types of direct
> > experiences (or not) w/ gods. And then have the course
> >  editor [*] choose
> > the most useful ones.
>
> You want them onlist, or just to you?

I want them privately in e-mail to the editor, and I want that editor not
to be me. Since you asked.

Manny

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 12:15:51PM -0400, Manny Olds wrote:
> >
> > You want them onlist, or just to you?
>
> I want them privately in e-mail to the editor, and I want that editor not
> to be me. Since you asked.

*sigh* But that means we can't do anything till we get an editor.

--
Arlie

(Arlie Stephens                                       arlie@...)

On Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:15:51 -0400 (EDT)
  Manny Olds <oldsma@...> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jun 2002 qibhom@... wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:35:56 -0400 (EDT)
> >  Manny Olds <oldsma@...> wrote:
> > > So, it sounds as if we need to start collecting a
>  broad
> > >  assortment of case
> > > studies, covering different types of heathens w/
> > >  different types of direct
> > > experiences (or not) w/ gods. And then have the
>  course
> > >  editor [*] choose
> > > the most useful ones.
> >
> > You want them onlist, or just to you?
>
> I want them privately in e-mail to the editor, and I want
>  that editor not
> to be me. Since you asked.

Thanks.  But, I didn't ask about the editor thing, for fear
  someone would thing I was volunteering.  Which I am most
  definitely not.

If you are going to pull teeth, Manny, you need to have a
  spit sink somewhere.

Be well,
Lissa

On Wed, 5 Jun 2002 qibhom@... wrote:

> If you are going to pull teeth, Manny, you need to have a
>  spit sink somewhere.

So you send them to me. Be sure to mark if you want your ID filed off of
any final product or if you don't care about that. Only Manny,
Intermediate course editors and (maybe) FWA trustees will see your
identified input if you request confidentiality. (I can't think of what
would make me show one to the trustees, but you have to allow for the
possiblity.)

Manny

Heilsa,

just saying hello and intro myself. My name is Bird(and yes I live at
the beach). I am a Seeker of RUNIC knowledge and the Northern
Traditions. I hail from Maine, living in Florida. American of
Scadinavian blood. Just taking a look at the group,thanks.

I raise my Horn to the Gods/desses and you my brothers and sisters.

WUNJO,
Bird

On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, beachnbird wrote:

> Heilsa,

Welcome.

> just saying hello and intro myself. My name is Bird(and yes I live at
> the beach). I am a Seeker of RUNIC knowledge and the Northern
> Traditions. I hail from Maine, living in Florida. American of
> Scadinavian blood. Just taking a look at the group,thanks.

Our discussion is open to all interested parties (and our archives are
public). We do restrict on-list discussion to program and course
development.

Look around and let us know if you have any questions. Or if you want to
join the work.


Manny Olds (oldsma@...) of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA

Sometimes you give a guy a fish, sometimes you teach him to fish,
sometimes you establish a fisherman training school, and sometimes you
have to let him find his own solution.

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 01:15:13PM -0400, Manny Olds wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jun 2002 qibhom@... wrote:
>
> > If you are going to pull teeth, Manny, you need to have a
> >  spit sink somewhere.
>
> So you send them to me. Be sure to mark if you want your ID filed off of
> any final product or if you don't care about that. Only Manny,
> Intermediate course editors and (maybe) FWA trustees will see your
> identified input if you request confidentiality. (I can't think of what
> would make me show one to the trustees, but you have to allow for the
> possiblity.)

What do we want in these again? It occurs to me that there are far too many
possibilities, and "describe (some of) your experiences with (some) gods"
is way too broad.  I think the original idea might have been to discuss
"patron", "dedication", "god friend" and "calling" type relationships,
but I think this may need to be stated.

--
Arlie

(Arlie Stephens                                       arlie@...)

Hello all,

IIRC, wasn't Kadlin updating links and stuff in the beginner's course? A
bunch needs to be done.

Lorrie, can you tell if the course is still getting traffic?

Rick

With the help of Alfta, my Germanic references work is up on the web at:

http://www.northvegr.org/lore/germanic/index.html

with connected files at Heathenhistory.

Rick

On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 01:57:57PM -0500, Rick A. Riedlinger wrote:

>
> With the help of Alfta, my Germanic references work is up on the web at:
>
> http://www.northvegr.org/lore/germanic/index.html
>
> with connected files at Heathenhistory.

Yay! Good to see this. Thank you for the effort it's taken to do this.
It's appreciated.

--
Arlie

(Arlie Stephens                                       arlie@...)

On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 01:57:51PM -0500, Rick A. Riedlinger wrote:
>
> IIRC, wasn't Kadlin updating links and stuff in the beginner's course? A
> bunch needs to be done.

	 Kadlin has dropped off the face of the virtual earth, I'm sorry to
say (I seem to recall a previous missive from her indicating big scary
real life issues). However, I thought Manny was maintaining these pages,
although she might have been getting advice on broken links from Kadlin
et al.

	 (and if Manny-or-someone has already answered this, their information
is almost certainly better -- I'm just trying to get in some business before
bedtime)

> Lorrie, can you tell if the course is still getting traffic?

	 So can I, or you, or anyone. I'll mail folks off-list with directions
on how to do so (I don't want them archived).

-- Lorrie

Hail Rick!!!

Wow! What a resouce! Talk about a course revision!
Brain... hurts....thinking ...about..it:)

If you ever make it to Northeren Va. I owe you a beer.
Great job!

Wassail!
Mike



--- "Rick A. Riedlinger"
<heathensailor@...> wrote:
> With the help of Alfta, my Germanic references work
> is up on the web at:
>
> http://www.northvegr.org/lore/germanic/index.html
>
> with connected files at Heathenhistory.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
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>


__________________________________________________
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Arlie, Mike-

Thank you for the kind words. I had the help of quite a few people.

The next revision is in the works as I have discovered that this idea was
done in German a while back and is about 400 pages.

Rick

Evening All!

Just a question.  We all know the gods & goddesses name by sight, but
what about saying the name?  I know how to prounouce most of the
names, what about the others?  Mispronouncing a gods name is like
calling your Aunt to ask a question better asked of your cousin.
Where can I find some references regarding the proper pronounciation
of the names?



Jim

Depends on the language.  I recommend using the language from which the name
originated, or its closest surviving relative, for pronunciation guides.

Looking for a specific example?


'/\` Frith upon your house
//\\ Karl Donaldsson
\\// mekboy@...
`\/' http://www.geocities.com/svalich
--------------------------------------------
Member of the Kindred of Ravenswood
Zionsville, Indiana  USA
http://www.iquest.net/~chaviland/Rindex.html
---------------------------------------------
To Vali!  To Vengeance!  To Honor!  To Kin!
===============================================
------>  Would you know more, or what?  <------
Get Asatru education at http://www.asatru-u.org
===============================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "jmurray88" <jmurray88@...>
To: <Asatru-U@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 6:49 PM
Subject: [Asatru-U] Pronounciation


> Evening All!
>
> Just a question.  We all know the gods & goddesses name by sight, but
> what about saying the name?  I know how to prounouce most of the
> names, what about the others?  Mispronouncing a gods name is like
> calling your Aunt to ask a question better asked of your cousin.
> Where can I find some references regarding the proper pronounciation
> of the names?
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Asatru-U-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

> We all know the gods & goddesses name by sight, but
> what about saying the name?  I know how to prounouce most of the
> names, what about the others?  Mispronouncing a gods name is like
> calling your Aunt to ask a question better asked of your cousin.

If pronunciation is important to you, (and it's not to everybody - there are
all kinds of pronunciations going around out there), I go along with Karl and
say to adopt the pronunciation of one of the languages closest to where the
god name comes from in the literature.  For most, Old Norse is appropriate.
I was just looking around on the web for a pronunciation guide for ON, but
all I find at the moment are pages on grammar.  If someone doesn't beat me to
it, I'll get my ON book out tonight and post the rules for you.  And BTW, I'm
with you on saying names "correctly".

Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Karl Donaldsson <mekboy@...> wrote:
> Depends on the language.  I recommend using the
> language from which the name
> originated, or its closest surviving relative, for
> pronunciation guides.
>
> Looking for a specific example?

Yes, I gues I should have specified how the
pronounciation would be done in English.



JIm


__________________________________________________
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--- tsdoughty@... wrote:
>
>
> > We all know the gods & goddesses name by sight,
> but
> > what about saying the name?  I know how to
> prounouce most of the
> > names, what about the others?  Mispronouncing a
> gods name is like
> > calling your Aunt to ask a question better asked
> of your cousin.
>
> If pronunciation is important to you, (and it's not
> to everybody - there are
> all kinds of pronunciations going around out there),
> I go along with Karl and
> say to adopt the pronunciation of one of the
> languages closest to where the
> god name comes from in the literature.  For most,
> Old Norse is appropriate.
> I was just looking around on the web for a
> pronunciation guide for ON, but
> all I find at the moment are pages on grammar.  If
> someone doesn't beat me to
> it, I'll get my ON book out tonight and post the
> rules for you.  And BTW, I'm
> with you on saying names "correctly".
>
> Tim

Thanks, good to see I'm not alone, I should have
specified English, but case in point, Frigga, is it
correctly(in English) 'Frig-ga' or Frig-ja', this is
kinda what I was getting at.


Jim


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

> Thanks, good to see I'm not alone, I should have
> specified English, but case in point, Frigga, is it
> correctly(in English) 'Frig-ga' or Frig-ja', this is
> kinda what I was getting at.
>

The g's are hard:  Frig-ga.  Frik-ka would be more accurate, since a double g
bordered by vowels comes out unvoiced in many Germanic languages.  One
sometimes sees it spelled Fricka anyway.

Since this list is really reserved for development of the heathen curriculum,
it would be better to continue the conversation off-list if needed.

Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: "Jim Murray" <jmurray88@...>

> --- Karl Donaldsson <mekboy@...> wrote:
> > Depends on the language.  I recommend using the
> > language from which the name
> > originated, or its closest surviving relative, for
> > pronunciation guides.
> >
> > Looking for a specific example?
>
> Yes, I gues I should have specified how the
> pronounciation would be done in English.

Erm, I mean, what word are you looking to pronounce?

I suppose we pronounce "croissant" as "kre-SAHNT" in American English, and
in the native French, it would be more like "kwai-SZAH".  Both
pronunciations are technically correct, but it depends on context.  If
you're meaning to use the name Odin/Odhinn as "OH-din", that's fine, some
prefer "OH-theen".  To say one is correct over another is subjective; I was
asking what you were looking for, and if there were any specific names you
wanted feedback on.


'/\` Frith upon your house
//\\ Karl Donaldsson
\\// mekboy@...
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