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#5363 From: davidditone@...
Date: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:23 am
Subject: Allard remote gear lever 		ditone12001
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The attached shows the tubular gear lever, as used on the Palm Beach Mk1, similar to the original J2 version.
 
David

1 of 1 File(s)


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#5362 From: "Mike Knapman" <mikeknapman@...>
Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:54 pm
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Ford sidechange gearbox floorchanger 		mikeknapman
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Mel
 I think the pictures of you item is of one made to an Allard design as it retains the original Ford  bent rod.. The Allard items have a beefier straight stick.  But they hare the same basic  donor source.
Mike
 
----- Original Message -----
From: melizman
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:35 PM
Subject: {Disarmed} [Allards] Ford sidechange gearbox floorchanger

 

Hi All,
I've put some pics of the floorchanger adapted from a column change mechanism in the "Photos" section.
I acquired this with a load of other Allard parts I bought and I'm not sure whether it is an original Allard item or one that has been made by others to the same design. It may even be a different design. Mike, do you know ?
Cheers,
Mel


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#5361 From: "edeanbutler" <edeanbutler@...>
Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:09 pm
Subject: RE: Shipping to the USA 		edeanbutler
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A 20 foot container is 80% of the cost of a 40 foot container, so it is best to share a 40 foot container with someone if possible. A good agent can frequently arrange this.

 

If your car is in a container, there is no worry about badges getting stolen. The container is sealed and will rarely be opened before you get it. The only people who can open a container before you receive it are customs officials, and I have never heard of anything going missing to customs officials. Badges and the like DO go missing on roll-on roll-off ferries. I have never had a container opened in either direction – out of perhaps 25 or so in the past several years. These days they X-ray containers, so there is usually no need to inspect the contents.

 

Use brokers at both ends who handle cars regularly. The best in the UK is a group called Cars Europe. Speak with Ian Winter. I have learned the hard way not to use anyone else. (I ship several containers per year in each direction.)

 

Specify below deck storage. This is sometimes a bit more expensive, sometimes not – but you will get it if specified. Above deck containers sometimes go overboard in storms.

 

When you load a container, the car should be tied down so well that it cannot move sideways. A car which can move sideways will do so in rough seas, hitting the sides of the container.

 

Any car over 50 years old must have an export license to leave the UK – a hassle, but a good broker can handle this for you.

 

If there is any chance of the vehicle returning to the UK, be sure ownership transfers to you in the UK (is in your name before it leaves), and then ship it as a temporary export, not a permanent export. This way you can return it to the EU without paying the current 29.5% excise tax and VAT – a huge advantage if the car is valuable and you might some day sell it to someone in the EU. The car must go both ways under the same ownership to avoid the EU tax.

 

E. Dean Butler

 

From: Allards@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Allards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert J. Denton
Sent: 22 November 2009 17:16
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Allards] Shipping to the USA

 

 

Having brought some cars in the past, I recommend the following. Find a shipping company in Europe and tell them you want your vehicle to travel in its own 20' container. It's much easier to get a 20' container on board than it is a light 40'. The ships have two restrictions. Weight and Cubes. By container standards, a car in a 20 container is light with less cubes and easier to squeeze in. They usually run out of space based on weight, not cubes. Be sure your car doesn't sit on the dock. Try to have it loaded or in line on the same day it arrives. Yes, it can be done. Remove everything that is loose or comes off easily. They collect badges of rare cars.

On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 12:06 PM, edeanbutler <edeanbutler@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Ship via sea-going container. Easy to do, but not cheap.

 

Best to find someone with which to share the container as two cars will easily fit in one standard 40 foot container.

 

E. Dean Butler

 

From: Allards@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Allards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rthomasleejr
Sent: 22 November 2009 15:39
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Allards] Shipping to the USA

 

 

My current automotive love (it changes every week or so - ADD, I guess!), non-Allard, is in Great Britain, and we're near Erie, PA!

Can anybody advise the best way to a car over here?

We'd certainly appreciate any guidance!!

thanks,

Tom Lee




--
Photography website
bobdenton.net

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#5360 From: "melizman" <melherman@...>
Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:35 pm
Subject: Ford sidechange gearbox floorchanger 		melizman
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Hi All,
I've put some pics of the floorchanger adapted from a column change mechanism in
the "Photos" section.
I acquired this with a load of other Allard parts I bought and I'm not sure
whether it is an original Allard item or one that has been made by others to the
same design. It may even be a different design. Mike, do you know ?
Cheers,
Mel

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#5359 From: "Robert J. Denton" <rjdenton479@...>
Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:16 pm
Subject: Re: Shipping to the USA 		dixiedeuces
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Send Email Send Email
 
Having brought some cars in the past, I recommend the following. Find a shipping company in Europe and tell them you want your vehicle to travel in its own 20' container. It's much easier to get a 20' container on board than it is a light 40'. The ships have two restrictions. Weight and Cubes. By container standards, a car in a 20 container is light with less cubes and easier to squeeze in. They usually run out of space based on weight, not cubes. Be sure your car doesn't sit on the dock. Try to have it loaded or in line on the same day it arrives. Yes, it can be done. Remove everything that is loose or comes off easily. They collect badges of rare cars.

On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 12:06 PM, edeanbutler <edeanbutler@...> wrote:
 

Ship via sea-going container. Easy to do, but not cheap.

 

Best to find someone with which to share the container as two cars will easily fit in one standard 40 foot container.

 

E. Dean Butler

 

From: Allards@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Allards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rthomasleejr
Sent: 22 November 2009 15:39
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Allards] Shipping to the USA

 

 

My current automotive love (it changes every week or so - ADD, I guess!), non-Allard, is in Great Britain, and we're near Erie, PA!

Can anybody advise the best way to a car over here?

We'd certainly appreciate any guidance!!

thanks,

Tom Lee




--
Photography website
bobdenton.net

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#5358 From: "edeanbutler" <edeanbutler@...>
Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:06 pm
Subject: RE: Shipping to the USA 		edeanbutler
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Ship via sea-going container. Easy to do, but not cheap.

 

Best to find someone with which to share the container as two cars will easily fit in one standard 40 foot container.

 

E. Dean Butler

 

From: Allards@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Allards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rthomasleejr
Sent: 22 November 2009 15:39
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Allards] Shipping to the USA

 

 

My current automotive love (it changes every week or so - ADD, I guess!), non-Allard, is in Great Britain, and we're near Erie, PA!

Can anybody advise the best way to a car over here?

We'd certainly appreciate any guidance!!

thanks,

Tom Lee


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#5357 From: "rthomasleejr" <rthomaslee@...>
Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:38 pm
Subject: Shipping to the USA 		rthomasleejr
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My current automotive love (it changes every week or so - ADD, I guess!),
non-Allard, is in Great Britain, and we're near Erie, PA!

Can anybody advise the best way to a car over here?

We'd certainly appreciate any guidance!!

thanks,

Tom Lee

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#5356 From: davidditone@...
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:27 pm
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2 		ditone12001
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William,
 
Should you not be able to find a Ford Pilot change to modify, page 116 of the gold Portfolio shows the MK1 Palm Beach shift mechanism. This was made by the factory and shows the method of construction which was similar to the units used on both J2 and K2 models.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: William Ayoub <weayoub@...>
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:04
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2

 
Mike, do you have a picture of this side-change shifter.
 
William
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2

 
Thank you AXR for highlighting this K2.
 
The exterior looks top class and it is heartening to see so much of the originality retained.  The only two minor criticisms being the sidepipes and the that shifter.  In UK the standard K2 would have been fitted with a side-change gearbox.  Ford UK  having discontinued the top- change gearboxes before the time the K2's were introduced. 
 
 The Allard factory shifter arrangement  for the side-change was to take a standard column shifter assembly, cut and shut the column and lay it on the floor in front of the driver's seat squab. The selector levers were  connected by two rods directly to the  levers of the gearbox. 
 In this case a shorter version of the floor mounted remote as used on K1, M Type and L Type  Allard might be a better alternative to that magic wand.
 
Mike
 
. 
----- Original Message -----
From: AXR
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 11:51 PM
Subject: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2

 


__________ NOD32 4625 (20091120) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

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#5355 From: Joe Clegg <jokeleg@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:38 pm
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2 [4 Attachments] 		jokeleg
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Mike,
When I bought my K2 back in 1966 I didn't realise that the column change shifter fixed to a piece of angle iron welded to the chassis was actually a factory fitting. I wrongly assumed that it was a mod by a previous owner who couldn't get hold of a top-change box. I was happy a bit later after experimenting with a Mercury-Ardun engine which I hated (folly of youth), to cut it off and fit a Jaguar-Moss box.
Now in my wisdom of more mature years I'm regretting making these and other changes thereby spoiling some of the charm of one of Sidneys beautiful creations.
Joe.  

From: Mike Knapman <mikeknapman@...>
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 21 November, 2009 15:27:51
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2 [4 Attachments]

 

Hello William
 
Happy to oblige.  I think you will be able to work out how it is done from attached pictures.  A column shift from a Ford V8 flathead would cut and shut just as well as an Allard one.  The " stick" is a cusom item.  The original ones are thinner and have bends in them.  With this  type of shiter the " gate" is a bit vague
Cheers
Mike
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 3:04 PM
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2

 

Mike, do you have a picture of this side-change shifter.
 
William
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2

 

Thank you AXR for highlighting this K2.
 
The exterior looks top class and it is heartening to see so much of the originality retained.  The only two minor criticisms being the sidepipes and the that shifter.  In UK the standard K2 would have been fitted with a side-change gearbox.  Ford UK  having discontinued the top- change gearboxes before the time the K2's were introduced. 
 
 The Allard factory shifter arrangement  for the side-change was to take a standard column shifter assembly, cut and shut the column and lay it on the floor in front of the driver's seat squab. The selector levers were  connected by two rods directly to the  levers of the gearbox. 
 In this case a shorter version of the floor mounted remote as used on K1, M Type and L Type  Allard might be a better alternative to that magic wand.
 
Mike
 
. 
----- Original Message -----
From: AXR
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 11:51 PM
Subject: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2

 

From The Truth About Cars news blog -
 



__________ NOD32 4625 (20091120) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset. com



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)
#5354 From: "edeanbutler" <edeanbutler@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:56 pm
Subject: RE: {Disarmed} Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2 		edeanbutler
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I agree with Mike – very nice looking car, but horribly incorrect shifter. That is really out of place. The side pipes I can tolerate, especially for a USA based car where side pipes were very period.

 

E. Dean Butler

 

From: Allards@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Allards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Knapman
Sent: 21 November 2009 14:13
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2

 

 

Thank you AXR for highlighting this K2.

 

The exterior looks top class and it is heartening to see so much of the originality retained.  The only two minor criticisms being the sidepipes and the that shifter.  In UK the standard K2 would have been fitted with a side-change gearbox.  Ford UK  having discontinued the top- change gearboxes before the time the K2's were introduced. 

 

 The Allard factory shifter arrangement  for the side-change was to take a standard column shifter assembly, cut and shut the column and lay it on the floor in front of the driver's seat squab. The selector levers were  connected by two rods directly to the  levers of the gearbox. 

 In this case a shorter version of the floor mounted remote as used on K1, M Type and L Type  Allard might be a better alternative to that magic wand.

 

Mike

 

. 

----- Original Message -----

From: AXR

Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 11:51 PM

Subject: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2

 

 

From The Truth About Cars news blog -

 

 


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#5353 From: "mel herman" <melherman@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:50 pm
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2 		melizman
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William,
I have one that I can take a pic of and will post it on the site in a day or so  . It's a very simple adaptation as Mike says.
Cheers,
Mel

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#5352 From: "Mike Knapman" <mikeknapman@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2 		mikeknapman
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello William
 
Happy to oblige.  I think you will be able to work out how it is done from attached pictures.  A column shift from a Ford V8 flathead would cut and shut just as well as an Allard one.  The " stick" is a cusom item.  The original ones are thinner and have bends in them.  With this  type of shiter the " gate" is a bit vague
Cheers
Mike
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 3:04 PM
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2

 

Mike, do you have a picture of this side-change shifter.
 
William
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2

 

Thank you AXR for highlighting this K2.
 
The exterior looks top class and it is heartening to see so much of the originality retained.  The only two minor criticisms being the sidepipes and the that shifter.  In UK the standard K2 would have been fitted with a side-change gearbox.  Ford UK  having discontinued the top- change gearboxes before the time the K2's were introduced. 
 
 The Allard factory shifter arrangement  for the side-change was to take a standard column shifter assembly, cut and shut the column and lay it on the floor in front of the driver's seat squab. The selector levers were  connected by two rods directly to the  levers of the gearbox. 
 In this case a shorter version of the floor mounted remote as used on K1, M Type and L Type  Allard might be a better alternative to that magic wand.
 
Mike
 
. 
----- Original Message -----
From: AXR
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 11:51 PM
Subject: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2

 

From The Truth About Cars news blog -
 



__________ NOD32 4625 (20091120) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com


4 of 4 Photo(s)


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)
#5351 From: William Ayoub <weayoub@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:04 pm
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2 		weayoub
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Mike, do you have a picture of this side-change shifter.
 
William
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2

 

Thank you AXR for highlighting this K2.
 
The exterior looks top class and it is heartening to see so much of the originality retained.  The only two minor criticisms being the sidepipes and the that shifter.  In UK the standard K2 would have been fitted with a side-change gearbox.  Ford UK  having discontinued the top- change gearboxes before the time the K2's were introduced. 
 
 The Allard factory shifter arrangement  for the side-change was to take a standard column shifter assembly, cut and shut the column and lay it on the floor in front of the driver's seat squab. The selector levers were  connected by two rods directly to the  levers of the gearbox. 
 In this case a shorter version of the floor mounted remote as used on K1, M Type and L Type  Allard might be a better alternative to that magic wand.
 
Mike
 
. 
----- Original Message -----
From: AXR
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 11:51 PM
Subject: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2

 

From The Truth About Cars news blog -
 



__________ NOD32 4625 (20091120) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#5350 From: "Mike Knapman" <mikeknapman@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:12 pm
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2 		mikeknapman
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Thank you AXR for highlighting this K2.
 
The exterior looks top class and it is heartening to see so much of the originality retained.  The only two minor criticisms being the sidepipes and the that shifter.  In UK the standard K2 would have been fitted with a side-change gearbox.  Ford UK  having discontinued the top- change gearboxes before the time the K2's were introduced. 
 
 The Allard factory shifter arrangement  for the side-change was to take a standard column shifter assembly, cut and shut the column and lay it on the floor in front of the driver's seat squab. The selector levers were  connected by two rods directly to the  levers of the gearbox. 
 In this case a shorter version of the floor mounted remote as used on K1, M Type and L Type  Allard might be a better alternative to that magic wand.
 
Mike
 
. 
----- Original Message -----
From: AXR
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 11:51 PM
Subject: {Disarmed} [Allards] Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2

 

From The Truth About Cars news blog -
 


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#5349 From: AXR <axrswim@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:51 pm
Subject: Curbside Classic Outtake: Allard K2 		allard1844
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From The Truth About Cars news blog -
 


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#5348 From: "edeanbutler" <edeanbutler@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:46 pm
Subject: RE: Shock absorber bushes for J2 / J2X 		edeanbutler
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Jerry:

 

Thanks for sharing this.

 

E. Dean Butler

 

From: Allards@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Allards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jerry2674
Sent: 20 November 2009 16:57
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Allards] Shock absorber bushes for J2 / J2X

 

 


I found out recently that Polybush do nice stiff shock absorber bushes suitable for Jaguar, which means that they will also fit onto J2 J2X front and rear telescopic shocks. Bought a set of 16 to equip front and rear. Can feel a definite improvement on the front, can't be so sure about the rear (however, my rear shocks are in a different position to standard)
Product description is 31AG Black 85 shore Shock Absorber conical bush. Product code for a pack of 8 is PC031AG08
contact is
Polybush
Clywedog Road South
Wrexham Industrial Estate
Wrexham
LL13 9XS
Tel: 01978 664316
Fax: 01978 661190
Email: sales@polybush.co.uk

Can only find the delivery note not the invoice so can't remember the price but it can't have been too bad or I would have stuck with new rubbers at 50p each!

Hope this helps somebody
Jerry.


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)
#5347 From: "jerry2674" <allardj2x@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:56 pm
Subject: Shock absorber bushes for J2 / J2X 		jerry2674
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
I found out recently that Polybush do nice stiff shock absorber bushes suitable
for Jaguar, which means that they will also fit onto J2 J2X front and rear
telescopic shocks. Bought a set of 16 to equip front and rear. Can feel a
definite improvement on the front, can't be so sure about the rear (however, my
rear shocks are in a different position to standard)
Product description is 31AG Black 85 shore Shock Absorber conical bush. Product
code for a pack of 8 is PC031AG08
contact is
Polybush
Clywedog Road South
Wrexham Industrial Estate
Wrexham
LL13 9XS
Tel: 01978 664316
Fax: 01978 661190
Email: sales@...

Can only find the delivery note not the invoice so can't remember the price but
it can't have been too bad or I would have stuck with new rubbers at 50p each!

Hope this helps somebody
Jerry.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)
#5346 From: Alex Edmonds <allardl1type@...>
Date: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:11 am
Subject: Re: Allard 1947 M for sale 		allardl1type
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Having recently restored one car (that Dean knows about) and being currently in the midst of doing an Allard I can only agree with this input.
But I think there's a bit more to it.
As long as there are poor running examples of a car and a plentiful supply of wrecks stored in barns, any marque will remain undervalued and restoration costs will consequently be prohibitive.
The poor running examples will not get maintained, so their perceived value/desirability will fall further and some of them will inevitably be added to the number of wrecks in the barns. 
But from the moment that some of the wrecks are restored and some of the basket cases get cannibalised in order to do this (being eliminated in the process) their perceived value will increase.
Allards were a very limited production - the combined effect of these two factors could be quite sharp.
As a recent arrival, in the past 18 months I have seen an M Type and an L Type restored and I know of another L Type under way and again (hopefully soon) my own so called L1 Special.
How long will it be before the Supply/Demand/Desirability equation kicks in ? 
An extreme example was my first car ever a Lancia Aurelia B20 GT that I bought aged 21 for £275.  When it failed its annual MOT test, on a student's grant I couldn't afford the £200 it required spending on it - and anyway you could buy a decent one for £350 - so I sold it for scrap/parts.
A totally correct decision (in real time) which proved to be a very great mistake !
Alex Edmonds
Monaco

From: Andrew Picariello <afpic@...>
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 1:40:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Allards] Allard 1947 M for sale

 

I echo Dean's comments, this too frrom experience.  I might add that, not only is the expected restoration cost doubled (if one is lucky!), but the time that it takes to do so, is also.
 
Andy Picariello
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:51 PM
Subject: RE: [Allards] Allard 1947 M for sale

 

As someone owning a restoration shop, I would say the following with regard to the value of cars needing total restoration:

Cars which are pretty simple to restore, such as most any Allard, require something like 2,000 hours of skilled labor. At, say, $70 per hour, that comes to $140,000. This does not include the cost or parts or the really expensive things such as chrome work or paint. When you add all this together, you are easily at $200,000 for a full, first class restoration of a relatively simple car. If you are talking a complex car, such as a vintage Rolls Royce, the figure easily doubles.

The net of all this, if we are honest with ourselves, is that, unless you do the work yourself, you will lose money if you have to sell the car – even if you get the un-restored car for free. This makes value discussions about un-restored cars rather academic! If you like the car and are not concerned about what it is worth after the restoration, then buy the car because you like it and will enjoy it.

I would also add that, no matter whether or not you restore a car yourself, it will cost you double what you think before you start. I do not think any of us ever estimate restoration costs with any real accuracy. My own shop is incapable of doing this! We always seem to get it wrong. The problem is that, even if you have years and years of experience, there are way too many unknowns which pop up.

E. Dean Butler

From: Allards@yahoogroups .com [mailto:Allards@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Larry Young
Sent: 15 November 2009 17:06
To: Allards@yahoogroups .com
Subject: Re: [Allards] Allard 1947 M for sale

 

After looking at the photos and description, I'd like to solicit
opinions about the asking price of $13,950. Is it reasonable? Seems
like a lot to me, especially considering the missing parts. Ford
mechanical parts are easy to find, but the specialty Allard parts, e.g.
gauges, would be more difficult. Of course, the condition of the wood
frame is not mentioned. Has anyone actually looked at the car? I'm
curious, because I've got an M-1 project which I plan to sell.
Larry




Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#5345 From: "Andrew Picariello" <afpic@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:40 pm
Subject: Re: Allard 1947 M for sale 		afpic@...
Send Email Send Email
 
I echo Dean's comments, this too frrom experience.  I might add that, not only is the expected restoration cost doubled (if one is lucky!), but the time that it takes to do so, is also.
 
Andy Picariello
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:51 PM
Subject: RE: [Allards] Allard 1947 M for sale

 

As someone owning a restoration shop, I would say the following with regard to the value of cars needing total restoration:

Cars which are pretty simple to restore, such as most any Allard, require something like 2,000 hours of skilled labor. At, say, $70 per hour, that comes to $140,000. This does not include the cost or parts or the really expensive things such as chrome work or paint. When you add all this together, you are easily at $200,000 for a full, first class restoration of a relatively simple car. If you are talking a complex car, such as a vintage Rolls Royce, the figure easily doubles.

The net of all this, if we are honest with ourselves, is that, unless you do the work yourself, you will lose money if you have to sell the car – even if you get the un-restored car for free. This makes value discussions about un-restored cars rather academic! If you like the car and are not concerned about what it is worth after the restoration, then buy the car because you like it and will enjoy it.

I would also add that, no matter whether or not you restore a car yourself, it will cost you double what you think before you start. I do not think any of us ever estimate restoration costs with any real accuracy. My own shop is incapable of doing this! We always seem to get it wrong. The problem is that, even if you have years and years of experience, there are way too many unknowns which pop up.

E. Dean Butler

From: Allards@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Allards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Young
Sent: 15 November 2009 17:06
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Allards] Allard 1947 M for sale

 

After looking at the photos and description, I'd like to solicit
opinions about the asking price of $13,950. Is it reasonable? Seems
like a lot to me, especially considering the missing parts. Ford
mechanical parts are easy to find, but the specialty Allard parts, e.g.
gauges, would be more difficult. Of course, the condition of the wood
frame is not mentioned. Has anyone actually looked at the car? I'm
curious, because I've got an M-1 project which I plan to sell.
Larry



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#5344 From: "mel herman" <melherman@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:14 am
Subject: Re: Allard 1947 M for sale 		melizman
Offline Offline
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I agree with Dean, the value of a car is what it is worth to the person who buys it.
The problem about price, values and worth as far as anything deemed collectible is that if there are limited supplies and people with a few more pounds than others want them they drive the prices up.
If this continues with a particular item it encourages speculators to join in who drive the prices up further and often out of the reach of the majority of enthusiasts.
As I have previously mentioned on this forum most of us are guilty? of spending what we can afford on our Allards and because we want them we are competing with each other to buy the cars we want.
We as much as anyone else are driving these prices up and it's human nature that if we have the available funds and want something, we will likely buy it and when we want to sell, we want to get what we can.
As Dean says, you will never recoup the cost of buying and properly restoring these ( relatively ) cheaper Allards at current prices but I can see the best of them increasing in price. This will lift the prices of restoration projects. The present sale seems to confirm this, if it was sold for the advertised price, which it may not have of course.
In one way it is good for the marque because it encourages spending on a restoration which will have a subsequent higher value, one which may otherwise have been left in a barn and eventually lost or destroyed.
I have worked for  hundreds of hours restoring my M and excluding that time I know that the cash I have spent buying the car and parts and other labour could not be recovered if I sold it at todays prices.
I don't care because I have enjoyed doing it and hope to enjoy driving it for many years.
Jere, all I can suggest is that you have a chat with Larry about his M project because it looks in better condition and much more complete than 816 but get in quick because he now knows the prices are increasing. Have fun restoring and using it if that is what you want. If you want to do it cost effectively then buy a well restored one , if you can find one, it will be cheaper but not as satisfying in my mind.
I must get back to the garage now to put a few more hundred hours into my K1 project, which is coming along nicely thank you. More on that soon.
Cheers,
Mel
 
 
 

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#5343 From: Jere Krieg <jere_krieg@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:21 am
Subject: Re: Fw: {Disarmed} Allard 1947 M for sale 		jere_krieg
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Mel
  THANK YOU, I am still looking for an M

--- On Sun, 11/15/09, mel herman <melherman@...> wrote:

From: mel herman <melherman@...>
Subject: Fw: {Disarmed} [Allards] Allard 1947 M for sale
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 6:17 AM

 

 
 
Jere,
This is chassis no. 81M 816 previously offered for sale on this site by Roger Allard , I believe, on behalf of his friend.
I have been in touch with the selling agents also to get some more info for my records and to ask them to let the purchaser know that I would be pleased to let them have any history of the car that we have.
I also offered to help them re restoration advice and sourcing parts.
From my records chassis 816 was delivered on 17 March 1949, had registration number SY 9088, belonged to Mr. R. Savage and was located in Wiltshire, UK.
From the various pics I have from the previous and present sale, the car has had some bodywork undertaken in the intervening period, looks reasonably complete chassis and body wise, has at least the block of a flathead and whilst advertised as having no transmission, appears to have a top change in place.
Should be a nice project for someone, I hope that its new owner is, or will become a member of our crazy gang ! ( I'm speaking of myself of course and don't wish to offend the other very sane person that we must have somewhere. If he exists he must be a member sans Allard ).
Cheers to all,
Mel
 


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (6)
#5342 From: Jere Krieg <jere_krieg@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:12 am
Subject: Re: Allard 1947 M for sale 		jere_krieg
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
By looking at the car, it is greatly overpriced.One has to look at the finished value and this car is no where near a value.  My  guess overpriced by 8-11,000.  If the wood is bad, and there is a large probaility,   I bid on one complete and in acceptable condition w/o paint and needed an interior but it ran ( sold for 14,000)

--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Larry Young <cartravel@...> wrote:

From: Larry Young <cartravel@...>
Subject: Re: [Allards] Allard 1947 M for sale
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 11:06 AM

 
After looking at the photos and description, I'd like to solicit
opinions about the asking price of $13,950. Is it reasonable? Seems
like a lot to me, especially considering the missing parts. Ford
mechanical parts are easy to find, but the specialty Allard parts, e.g.
gauges, would be more difficult. Of course, the condition of the wood
frame is not mentioned. Has anyone actually looked at the car? I'm
curious, because I've got an M-1 project which I plan to sell.
Larry

mel herman wrote:
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Jere,
> This is chassis no. 81M 816 previously offered for sale on this site
> by Roger Allard , I believe, on behalf of his friend.
> I have been in touch with the selling agents also to get some more
> info for my records and to ask them to let the purchaser know that I
> would be pleased to let them have any history of the car that we have.
> I also offered to help them re restoration advice and sourcing parts.
> From my records chassis 816 was delivered on 17 March 1949, had
> registration number SY 9088, belonged to Mr. R. Savage and was located
> in Wiltshire, UK.
> From the various pics I have from the previous and present sale, the
> car has had some bodywork undertaken in the intervening period, looks
> reasonably complete chassis and body wise, has at least the block of a
> flathead and whilst advertised as having no transmission, appears to
> have a top change in place.
> Should be a nice project for someone, I hope that its new owner is, or
> will become a member of our crazy gang ! ( I'm speaking of myself of
> course and don't wish to offend the other very sane person that we
> must have somewhere. If he exists he must be a member sans Allard ).
> Cheers to all,
> Mel
>
>


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (6)
#5341 From: "edeanbutler" <edeanbutler@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:51 pm
Subject: RE: Allard 1947 M for sale 		edeanbutler
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

As someone owning a restoration shop, I would say the following with regard to the value of cars needing total restoration:

 

Cars which are pretty simple to restore, such as most any Allard, require something like 2,000 hours of skilled labor. At, say, $70 per hour, that comes to $140,000. This does not include the cost or parts or the really expensive things such as chrome work or paint. When you add all this together, you are easily at $200,000 for a full, first class restoration of a relatively simple car. If you are talking a complex car, such as a vintage Rolls Royce, the figure easily doubles.

 

The net of all this, if we are honest with ourselves, is that, unless you do the work yourself, you will lose money if you have to sell the car – even if you get the un-restored car for free. This makes value discussions about un-restored cars rather academic! If you like the car and are not concerned about what it is worth after the restoration, then buy the car because you like it and will enjoy it.

 

I would also add that, no matter whether or not you restore a car yourself, it will cost you double what you think before you start. I do not think any of us ever estimate restoration costs with any real accuracy. My own shop is incapable of doing this! We always seem to get it wrong. The problem is that, even if you have years and years of experience, there are way too many unknowns which pop up.

 

E. Dean Butler

 

From: Allards@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Allards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Young
Sent: 15 November 2009 17:06
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Allards] Allard 1947 M for sale

 

 

After looking at the photos and description, I'd like to solicit
opinions about the asking price of $13,950. Is it reasonable? Seems
like a lot to me, especially considering the missing parts. Ford
mechanical parts are easy to find, but the specialty Allard parts, e.g.
gauges, would be more difficult. Of course, the condition of the wood
frame is not mentioned. Has anyone actually looked at the car? I'm
curious, because I've got an M-1 project which I plan to sell.
Larry



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (6)
#5340 From: "bowmanpj" <bowmanpj@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:05 pm
Subject: Re: Allard 1947 M for sale 		bowmanpj
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
  
Seems really high to me considering the condition, and all the missing parts.
Since a complete, running M sold at Monterey for not much more than this, I
don't see this car being worth anywhere near that price, but just my opinion.

Peter


--- In Allards@yahoogroups.com, Larry Young <cartravel@...> wrote:
>
> After looking at the photos and description, I'd like to solicit
> opinions about the asking price of $13,950.  Is it reasonable?  Seems
> like a lot to me, especially considering the missing parts.  Ford
> mechanical parts are easy to find, but the specialty Allard parts, e.g.
> gauges, would be more difficult.  Of course, the condition of the wood
> frame is not mentioned.  Has anyone actually looked at the car?  I'm
> curious, because I've got an M-1 project which I plan to sell.
> Larry
>
> mel herman wrote:
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > Jere,
> > This is chassis no. 81M 816 previously offered for sale on this site
> > by Roger Allard , I believe, on behalf of his friend.
> > I have been in touch with the selling agents also to get some more
> > info for my records and to ask them to let the purchaser know that I
> > would be pleased to let them have any history of the car that we have.
> > I also offered to help them re restoration advice and sourcing parts.
> > From my records chassis 816 was delivered on 17 March 1949, had
> > registration number SY 9088, belonged to Mr. R. Savage and was located
> > in Wiltshire, UK.
> > From the various pics I have from the previous and present sale, the
> > car has had some bodywork undertaken in the intervening period, looks
> > reasonably complete chassis and body wise, has at least the block of a
> > flathead and whilst advertised as having no transmission, appears to
> > have a top change in place.
> > Should be a nice project for someone, I hope that its new owner is, or
> > will become a member of our crazy gang ! ( I'm speaking of myself of
> > course and don't wish to offend the other very sane person that we
> > must have somewhere. If he exists he must be a member sans Allard ).
> > Cheers to all,
> > Mel
> >
> >
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (6)
#5339 From: Larry Young <cartravel@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:06 pm
Subject: Re: Allard 1947 M for sale 		cartravel
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
After looking at the photos and description, I'd like to solicit
opinions about the asking price of $13,950.  Is it reasonable?  Seems
like a lot to me, especially considering the missing parts.  Ford
mechanical parts are easy to find, but the specialty Allard parts, e.g.
gauges, would be more difficult.  Of course, the condition of the wood
frame is not mentioned.  Has anyone actually looked at the car?  I'm
curious, because I've got an M-1 project which I plan to sell.
Larry

mel herman wrote:
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Jere,
> This is chassis no. 81M 816 previously offered for sale on this site
> by Roger Allard , I believe, on behalf of his friend.
> I have been in touch with the selling agents also to get some more
> info for my records and to ask them to let the purchaser know that I
> would be pleased to let them have any history of the car that we have.
> I also offered to help them re restoration advice and sourcing parts.
> From my records chassis 816 was delivered on 17 March 1949, had
> registration number SY 9088, belonged to Mr. R. Savage and was located
> in Wiltshire, UK.
> From the various pics I have from the previous and present sale, the
> car has had some bodywork undertaken in the intervening period, looks
> reasonably complete chassis and body wise, has at least the block of a
> flathead and whilst advertised as having no transmission, appears to
> have a top change in place.
> Should be a nice project for someone, I hope that its new owner is, or
> will become a member of our crazy gang ! ( I'm speaking of myself of
> course and don't wish to offend the other very sane person that we
> must have somewhere. If he exists he must be a member sans Allard ).
> Cheers to all,
> Mel
>
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (6)
#5338 From: JANET L KINZINGER <jannkinz@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:08 pm
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Allard 1947 M for sale 		jannkinzinger
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
"Lady"?    I'm sure that those who know of or have seen my infamous Allard underwear would not call  me a "lady."  Perhaps as I liquidate my Allard memorabilia, I'll include the underwear...at least the top part.
 
Jann
 
PS:  Oh, yeah, and then there are those who have heard my non-lawyerly truck drive vocabulary...

--- On Sun, 11/15/09, mel herman <melherman@...> wrote:

From: mel herman <melherman@...>
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Allards] Allard 1947 M for sale
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 7:39 AM

 

Oops, I just realised I was being sexist when I suggested that the sane member ( if there is one ) was a "he".
I do not wish to upset Janet or other lady members, so may I correct myself and refer to "him or her".
Phew, that was close .
Mel

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#5337 From: "mel herman" <melherman@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:39 pm
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Allard 1947 M for sale 		melizman
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Oops, I just realised I was being sexist when I suggested that the sane member ( if there is one ) was a "he".
I do not wish to upset Janet or other lady members, so may I correct myself and refer to "him or her".
Phew, that was close .
Mel

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#5336 From: "mel herman" <melherman@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:17 pm
Subject: Fw: {Disarmed} Allard 1947 M for sale 		melizman
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

 
 
Jere,
This is chassis no. 81M 816 previously offered for sale on this site by Roger Allard , I believe, on behalf of his friend.
I have been in touch with the selling agents also to get some more info for my records and to ask them to let the purchaser know that I would be pleased to let them have any history of the car that we have.
I also offered to help them re restoration advice and sourcing parts.
From my records chassis 816 was delivered on 17 March 1949, had registration number SY 9088, belonged to Mr. R. Savage and was located in Wiltshire, UK.
From the various pics I have from the previous and present sale, the car has had some bodywork undertaken in the intervening period, looks reasonably complete chassis and body wise, has at least the block of a flathead and whilst advertised as having no transmission, appears to have a top change in place.
Should be a nice project for someone, I hope that its new owner is, or will become a member of our crazy gang ! ( I'm speaking of myself of course and don't wish to offend the other very sane person that we must have somewhere. If he exists he must be a member sans Allard ).
Cheers to all,
Mel
 

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (6)
#5335 From: Jere Krieg <jere_krieg@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:08 pm
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Allard 1947 M for sale 		jere_krieg
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Mike I called them on this car and said it was sold.  What do u know about this car?

--- On Fri, 11/13/09, Mike Knapman <mikeknapman@...> wrote:

From: Mike Knapman <mikeknapman@...>
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Allards] Allard 1947 M for sale
To: Allards@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 5:13 AM

 
Thanks for the heads-up beemergb . No doubt about it, it is an M
 
Mike
 
----- Original Message -----
From: beemergb
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 10:55 AM
Subject: {Disarmed} [Allards] Allard 1947 M for sale

 
I thought I recognised this car (photos in the photo section )it was for sale here on the forum in 2007 , now its in New York and turned into an M , it was advertised as an L then .The gearbox is missing and dials etc , and needs the usual bits and pieces ! Its at Gullwing motors in New York .



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (4)
#5334 From: "Mike Knapman" <mikeknapman@...>
Date: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:13 am
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Allard 1947 M for sale 		mikeknapman
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks for the heads-up beemergb . No doubt about it, it is an M
 
Mike
 
----- Original Message -----
From: beemergb
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 10:55 AM
Subject: {Disarmed} [Allards] Allard 1947 M for sale

 

I thought I recognised this car (photos in the photo section )it was for sale here on the forum in 2007 , now its in New York and turned into an M , it was advertised as an L then .The gearbox is missing and dials etc , and needs the usual bits and pieces ! Its at Gullwing motors in New York .


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