Dear all,

I have my stations in place for my Snowshoe 14 and so I'm keen to
start the boat building proper.

Firstly I'm wondering why the plans specify spruce or pine for the
knee but 3/8th ply for the knee. Does anyone see a problem using
wood and not ply for both pieces?

Secondly, the plans call for 3/8 thick pieces for the stem and knee.
I can't readily buy 3/8 wood but have on hand 1/2 inch wood. I'm
thinking to go with the 1/2 inch wood but have the option of driving
about 60 miles to a mate who has a thicknesser. Are there going to
be issues down the track if I go for this slightly thicker wood. I
can't see a problem but I'm new to this and maybe have missed
something.

Finally, the plans suggest structural epoxy for gluing. I don't know
much about glues, but it seems like a high strength polyurethane
glue (e.g. http://www.vise.com.au/boatbuilders_quality.shtml) is
going to be just fine and probably much nicer to work with. Any
thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any help.

cheers


Tim

Would it be acceptable for me to use marine plywood exclusively for all of the
wood requirements for the Airolite boat kits? . . . Would marine plywood work
for this application?  If so, what type of marine plywood do you recommend that
I use?  What are the "pros & cons" of working with marine plywood in this type
of application?

Thank you,

Steve

Steve,

Plywood is appropriate for panels, hull pieces, bulkheads.  For stringers and
ribs the crossgrain layers might necessitate such large cross sections that the
framework would get clunky, heavy, in order to be sufficiently strong.

I wonder if you were to match the cross sectional area called out in the plans
for a solid wood stringer with the cross sectional area of each layer of a piece
of ply, would the resistance to bending be similar?  Or higher because the
crossgrain layers add a little?

Cedric

Hi Steve,
   My first thought was also the loss in stiffness due to crossgrain layers as
described by Cedric. If you did this you would definately want the surface
layers to be aligned with the longer dimension of the pieces.

Other issues:
- Ply would be a relatively expensive option compared to 'ordinary house framing
timber' called for by Platt.
- All the glue in the ply adds weight but not strength.
- Ply will require you to scarf for lengths over 8', ie all stringers
+ if you could be bothered you could make all stringers as hollow box beams from
thin (4mm?) ply
+ With very thin ply (3mm doorskin?) you might laminate ribs

The more I think about it the better it sounds to avoid ply and do as Platt
suggested: framing timber stringers and steam bent ribs. Ply does not seem to
offer any significant advantages. But if I did not have access to any suitable
timber I would use it.

But the hollow box stringers idea has got me thinking... They would be extra
work (?) but potentially would make an even lighter frame! The ribs could be
done hollow too! If you really wanted to go with ply this might be a way to make
smart use of its properties.

   regards, Dave P


--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, Melcher Cedric <ichacedbodric@...> wrote:
>
>
> Steve,
>
> Plywood is appropriate for panels, hull pieces, bulkheads.  For stringers and
ribs the crossgrain layers might necessitate such large cross sections that the
framework would get clunky, heavy, in order to be sufficiently strong.
>
> I wonder if you were to match the cross sectional area called out in the plans
for a solid wood stringer with the cross sectional area of each layer of a piece
of ply, would the resistance to bending be similar?  Or higher because the
crossgrain layers add a little?
>
> Cedric
>

Will someone share with me the recomended sizes for the Classic 12.
It seems I read somewhere they are 1/2 x 3/8" but I want to be sure. I could go
ahead and rip them 5/8''square and plane them to size later.
I have just rec'd. the video and intend to order the kit and plans soon.
However, I will be relocating from Toledo, Ohio to near Raleigh,NC later this
fall. I want to have those items,(kit & plans) shipped to Raleigh, but would
like to go ahead and get started cutting the  rough material here and now. I
have a table saw here but my thickness planer is in Raleigh.
If this is a no-no, I certainly understand. Thanks either way.
Bill C.

According to my C-12 plan set BOM, the long softwood pieces are:
  1 ea 3/8 x 2-5/6 x 12'  keelson
  4 ea 3/8 x 1 x 14' gunwale/inwale
12 ea 3/8 x 3/8 x 14' stringer
  2 ea 7/16 x 1/2 x 14' rub rail
  1 ea 1/4 x 1/2 x 12' outer keel
  3 ea 3/8 x 2-3/4 x 10' floorboard
  1 ea 1 x 1 x 12 seat frame
If cost is a major issue, you might want to compare dimensional lumber prices in
Ohio & NC - lots of lumbering down that way.

By "video", do you mean Platt Monfort's, or the DVD from "TheBoatShop.com"  from
which jm_siverman had copies produced and made available to the group?  If you
do not have the latter item, you should check to see if a copy remains available
- highly recommended.

Hope that helps.

-Roland

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Crews" <hophar98@...> wrote:
>
> Will someone share with me the recomended sizes for the Classic 12.
> It seems I read somewhere they are 1/2 x 3/8" but I want to be sure. I could
go ahead and rip them 5/8''square and plane them to size later.
> I have just rec'd. the video and intend to order the kit and plans soon.
However, I will be relocating from Toledo, Ohio to near Raleigh,NC later this
fall. I want to have those items,(kit & plans) shipped to Raleigh, but would
like to go ahead and get started cutting the  rough material here and now. I
have a table saw here but my thickness planer is in Raleigh.
> If this is a no-no, I certainly understand. Thanks either way.
> Bill C.
>

I guess there are three main factors

1. resistance to rot

2. strength to weight, and-or resistance to cracking/splintering  ? ? ?

3. workability  ( dont know what that really means either )
Maybe some glue doesnt stick well to some woods ?

I hear teak and cypress are great for rot resistance

I believe ash and hickory is what axe handles are made from

I have no idea which woods can be bent easily and otherwise
worked with real well.

In this day and age of super strength epoxies and varnishes
should we even worry about rot resistance since we can
waterproof the wood ?

Scott

Try emailing Joel Silverman ("jm_silverman@...").  Joel is the founder &
moderator of this list, and it was he who arranged to have the Boat Shop
material transcribed to a limited run of DVDs.  The subject is the construction
of a GA Nimrod, so techniques and examples will still need to be extrapolated to
apply to other models.  There is a lot of valuable information in Platt
Monfort's video as well, but Platt was not a professional producer, and crusty
old Mainers do not seem to make the most riveting of narrators.  As for my own
efforts, unfortunately, other projects keep stealing the priority, but maybe
_this_ year...

-Roland


--- On Sat, 4/11/09, William Crews <crewswilliam92@...> wrote:

> From: William Crews <crewswilliam92@...>
> Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Re: Sizes.
> To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 8:55 AM
> Roland
> This is exactly what I needed. Thank you so much. Re: The
> video from The Boat Shop, that is NOT the one I got. I got
> Platt's video, evidently a very early production. All
> that does is whet my appetite for detail stuff. I tried to
> find the Boat Shop item but they don't list iot or I
> don't know what I'm looking for. I will try the
> Group and see if I can beg/borrow or rent one that is not in
> use. I would be happy to pay someone if it is as valuable as
> you say.
>  
> The price of the wood I use, (whatever) is not the primary
> concern, I just want to get something started here where I
> have some time available now.
>  
> Did you build a classic? I am torn between the 12' vs
> 14' and would appreciate your
> take on this.
>  
> Where I will be moving to is laced with small and not so
> small inland lakes,(in and around Raleigh where my oldest
> daughter lives), and I am really eager to try them. I have
> fished Lake Erie, (Western Basin between Sandusky and The
> Toledo Basin for many years. These geodesics would not be
> suitable for that kind of fishing except in rare times when
> the winds and waves are under2'.
>  
> Again, thank you so much for taking the time to help a
> Groupie,
> Bill Crews,hophar98
>
> --- On Sat, 4/11/09, rueffingkidding
> <rueffingkidding@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: rueffingkidding <rueffingkidding@...>
> Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Re: Sizes.
> To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 12:04 PM
>
>
> According to my C-12 plan set BOM, the long softwood pieces
> are:
> 1 ea 3/8 x 2-5/6 x 12'  keelson
> 4 ea 3/8 x 1 x 14' gunwale/inwale
> 12 ea 3/8 x 3/8 x 14' stringer
> 2 ea 7/16 x 1/2 x 14' rub rail
> 1 ea 1/4 x 1/2 x 12' outer keel
> 3 ea 3/8 x 2-3/4 x 10' floorboard
> 1 ea 1 x 1 x 12 seat frame
> If cost is a major issue, you might want to compare
> dimensional lumber prices in Ohio & NC - lots of
> lumbering down that way.
>
> By "video", do you mean Platt Monfort's, or
> the DVD from "TheBoatShop.com"  from which
> jm_siverman had copies produced and made available to the
> group?  If you do not have the latter item, you should
> check to see if a copy remains available - highly
> recommended.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> -Roland
>
> --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Bill
> Crews" <hophar98@...> wrote:
> >
> > Will someone share with me the recomended sizes for
> the Classic 12.
> > It seems I read somewhere they are 1/2 x 3/8" but
> I want to be sure. I could go ahead and rip them
> 5/8''square and plane them to size later.
> > I have just rec'd. the video and intend to order
> the kit and plans soon. However, I will be relocating from
> Toledo, Ohio to near Raleigh,NC later this fall. I want to
> have those items,(kit & plans) shipped to Raleigh, but
> would like to go ahead and get started cutting the  rough
> material here and now. I have a table saw here but my
> thickness planer is in Raleigh.
> > If this is a no-no, I certainly understand. Thanks
> either way.
> > Bill C.
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links

is it this one? does it have all six segments from the show on it?
<http://www.theboatshop.com/plans/nimrod.shtml>
bill keiser

> Try emailing Joel Silverman ("jm_silverman@...").  Joel is the founder &
moderator of this list, and it was he who arranged to have the Boat Shop
material transcribed to a limited run of DVDs.  The subject is the construction
of a GA Nimrod, so techniques and examples will still need to be extrapolated to
apply to other models.  There is a lot of valuable information in Platt
Monfort's video as well, but Platt was not a professional producer, and crusty
old Mainers do not seem to make the most riveting of narrators.  As for my own
efforts, unfortunately, other projects keep stealing the priority, but maybe
_this_ year...
>
> -Roland
>

I believe that is the one (sans plans, of course.)  The segment transitions are
only indicated by fades on my DVD - I'd need to watch the whole thing in
real-time to confirm that the number is 6, but it does cover the entire project
from start to finish.  My DVD is 56:29 minutes in length.  If I recall
correctly, it had only been available on VHS, and Joel had it converted to DVD. 
Maybe part of the arrangement was to give a DVD master copy to the Boat Shop. 
In any event, it's good to see that it now is freely available.

-Roland
--- On Sun, 4/12/09, Bill Keiser <bk2@...> wrote:

> From: Bill Keiser <bk2@...>
> Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Re: video
> To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, April 12, 2009, 8:30 AM
> is it this one? does it have all six segments from the show
> on it?
> <http://www.theboatshop.com/plans/nimrod.shtml>
> bill keiser
....

I find all chatter between members of interest, as long as it's boat-related.
For those who don't wish to overload their email boxes there is an option to:
"Web Only - Don't get notified of the latest happenings. Read messages only on
the web."
This is the option I use, checking in only when I have enough quality time to
enjoy 'boat stuff'.
Peter.


--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, bschless@... wrote:
>
> With all due respect, could members of the listserv please keep emails
> that are between members addressed so that only the members receive them?
> Clicking REPLY sends the email to everyone on the listserv, clogging up
> the 'net.
>
> Thanks
>
> Beau Schless
>
>
>
>
> Roland Deschain <rueffingkidding@...>
> Sent by: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> 04/12/2009 04:05 PM
> Please respond to
> Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> To
> Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: [Airolite_Boats] Re: video
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I believe that is the one (sans plans, of course.) The segment transitions
> are only indicated by fades on my DVD - I'd need to watch the whole thing
> in real-time to confirm that the number is 6, but it does cover the entire
> project from start to finish. My DVD is 56:29 minutes in length. If I
> recall correctly, it had only been available on VHS, and Joel had it
> converted to DVD. Maybe part of the arrangement was to give a DVD master
> copy to the Boat Shop. In any event, it's good to see that it now is
> freely available.
>
> -Roland
> --- On Sun, 4/12/09, Bill Keiser <bk2@...> wrote:
>
> > From: Bill Keiser <bk2@...>
> > Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Re: video
> > To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Sunday, April 12, 2009, 8:30 AM
> > is it this one? does it have all six segments from the show
> > on it?
> > <http://www.theboatshop.com/plans/nimrod.shtml>
> > bill keiser
> ....
>

Thanks, but I maintain that the subject was central to the purpose of this list.
It _belonged_ here.

-Roland

--- On Mon, 4/13/09, pjacobs55 <prjacobs@...> wrote:

> From: pjacobs55 <prjacobs@...>
> Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Re: video
> To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 12:20 PM
> I find all chatter between members of interest, as long as
> it's boat-related.
> For those who don't wish to overload their email boxes
> there is an option to:
> "Web Only - Don't get notified of the latest
> happenings. Read messages only on the web."
> This is the option I use, checking in only when I have
> enough quality time to enjoy 'boat stuff'.
> Peter.
>
>
> --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, bschless@... wrote:
> >
> > With all due respect, could members of the listserv
> please keep emails
> > that are between members addressed so that only the
> members receive them?
> > Clicking REPLY sends the email to everyone on the
> listserv, clogging up
> > the 'net.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Beau Schless
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Roland Deschain <rueffingkidding@...>
> > Sent by: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> > 04/12/2009 04:05 PM
> > Please respond to
> > Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > To
> > Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> > cc
> >
> > Subject
> > Re: [Airolite_Boats] Re: video
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I believe that is the one (sans plans, of course.) The
> segment transitions
> > are only indicated by fades on my DVD - I'd need
> to watch the whole thing
> > in real-time to confirm that the number is 6, but it
> does cover the entire
> > project from start to finish. My DVD is 56:29 minutes
> in length. If I
> > recall correctly, it had only been available on VHS,
> and Joel had it
> > converted to DVD. Maybe part of the arrangement was to
> give a DVD master
> > copy to the Boat Shop. In any event, it's good to
> see that it now is
> > freely available.
> >
> > -Roland
> > --- On Sun, 4/12/09, Bill Keiser <bk2@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Bill Keiser <bk2@...>
> > > Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Re: video
> > > To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Sunday, April 12, 2009, 8:30 AM
> > > is it this one? does it have all six segments
> from the show
> > > on it?
> > >
> <http://www.theboatshop.com/plans/nimrod.shtml>
> > > bill keiser
> > ....
> >

My wife and I (total 300 lbs ) want to paddel on mostly flat lake water. Do 2
people work fine on the arrow 14? Is the snowshoe 14 the better choice? She
prefers to be more kayak style with 2 blade paddels. Who has experience? I want
to build the correct design for my need. Chris

I need a boat for two on flat water. The arrow 14 or the snowshoe 14???  My wife
would kinda like the kayak style but the arrow seems a little small? Who has
experience out there. Thanks  Chris

Now THAT is a indisputably off-topic and offensive piece of spamming.  Kindly
keep your non-Geodesic Airolite for sale ads off of this list.  Thank you SO
very much...

-Roland

--- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, sanford count <sandyroz@...> wrote:
>
> hi, We have a two person inflatable kayak. It is very stable, well built and
in excellent shape. The price is $200. We live in Southbury, CT.   Sandy
>
> --- On Fri, 4/24/09, cmrv6 <cmrv6@...> wrote:
>
> From: cmrv6 <cmrv6@...>
> Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Which boat
> To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, April 24, 2009, 10:51 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I need a boat for two on flat water. The arrow 14 or the snowshoe 14??? My
wife would kinda like the kayak style but the arrow seems a little small? Who
has experience out there. Thanks Chris
>

Hello CMRV6,

If the primary purpose of the boat is for two people, build the larger
boat. I completed an arrow 14 two years ago. The building process was
great, and both my daughter and I use the boat, but not at the same time.
The Arrow 14 is very kayak like, handles rough water well, and has stood
up to lots of use over the past two summers. On several occasions we have
taken two people out in it, and its more tender. I would not build the
arrow 14 to be primarily used by 2 people. But here is an idea, build 2
arrow 14's, one for your wife, and one for yourself.

Photos of my build are in the Arrow 14 photo album on the site.

Regards,

Guyt36

hello,

i just joined the group.  i am strongly considering building the the classic 12
and was wondering if there are any GA builders/boats in the the Philadelphia, PA
area.  i would be willing to drive and get out of the city to see one in person
(it doesn't have to be a classic 12 any GA boat would do).  i have questions
about where to get good materials locally and any suggestions would be very
helpful.

thanks in advance,
brian

----- Original Message -----

From: cmrv6

To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 10:51 AM

Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Which boat

I need a boat for two on flat water. The arrow 14 or the snowshoe 14??? My wife would kinda like the kayak style but the arrow seems a little small? Who has experience out there. Thanks Chris

Hi . . . new member here. I've started the Snowshoe 12 and have begun attaching
the 3/8" square Sitka Spruce stringers. I've got the middle pair on (as well as
the gunwale and the keelson). As you know, as the stringers approach the bottom
of the boat, the twist req'd. to properly meet the stems gets pretty extreme.
The first pair I soaked repeatedly with boiling water on both ends (wrapped with
flannel pillow cases)and they went on okay.

Here's my question: Have other builders been able to soak & then get enough
twist in the bottom stringer (the one next to the keelson)? Or do you do
something else, like planing the stringer's edge where it meets the stem so it
lays flat (and planing the opposite edge facing out)? Would this make the
stringer too thin and too weak? Montfort's instructions are not especially
clear.

Any insight or suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks!

-Patrick

Hi Patrick, This has been discussed before and the go is to not twist ANY of the
stringers. Take it from me - I've tried both. Platt says to just let them lie
fair against the stem and trim them at that angle. Later on fair the corner to
about an eith of an inch for the Dacron to land on. Trying to twist those bottom
stringers not only gives you grief but the resulting tangle of surfaces and
corners are almost impossible to get looking good. DON'T TWIST. Cheers, Peter
>

So the stringers end up being 1/8" inch thick at the stems? That's not too thin,
huh? And inside -- is a notch made for the ribs closest to the stems -- so they
fit flush to a face of the stringers -- or are they lashed just touching the
inside corners of the stringers at the far ends of the boat? (Hopefully I am
expressing myself clearly here!) Thanks for your help, Peter. I'll also do a
search through this group forum (which is perhaps where I should have started).

-Patrick